Aladdin is a STOLEN movie: The Thief and the Cobbler

[@AsgardianQueen]

Man, I wish they still made 2D animations that look this good.

[@xlivingxdeadgirl]

honestly, 3D animation has become such a copy and paste thing, like disney reuses the same character format ( bodies, eyes, etc ) i miss the nostalgia of 2D animations like this movie and many others, i miss the originality

[@nunpho]

@@xlivingxdeadgirl me too but hey it's quicker and cheaper to do 3d animations. I did an animation course when I was at college for art. I never did 3d animation but I did do digital. You still draw things frame by frame etc. It takes a crazy long amount of time to do by hand digitally, the traditional way must have been so much longer. I understand why they cut corners but I really do miss the traditional stuff.

[@Arguing.With.Idiots.]

Allow me to introduce my current favorite 2D: Wolfwalkers

[@fusetunes]

@@xlivingxdeadgirl 3d can honestly look amazing- spiderverse and captain underpants proved you can still keep stylization in any format. i think the problem is just studios relying too much on a signature style or, in cases like illumination, purposefully trying to be cheap.

[@mikemorro140]

@@fusetunes Yeah there's plenty of great looking 3D stuff like the ones you mentioned or to go back some years Rango but the big studios stick to one style so much that it feels kind of basic, Luca is the first Pixar film in a while that had more of a distinct style

[@felixsputnik]

Close but no cigar… I worked on “The Thief” as an Animator in 1990 and 1991. Here’s some of what isn’t correct in this video. The film developed from the Nasrudin concept but was eventually called “Once” and later “The Thief who never gave up” before getting it’s final title. Dick tended to animate on Ones (or singles), not Twos, hence the 24 drawings a second quote. Dick did not fire hundreds and hundreds on Animators, most certainly not the three in that photo… A few fell by the wayside, but not many… Dick did not miss a “Disney Deadline in 1992, as Disney had nothing to do with the movie. The film was financed by Warner Brothers and taken over by the “Completion Bond Company” which later sold the project to Miramax. About half the movie was unfinished, not just 10 minutes. Many animators working on Aladdin, worked with Williams on Roger Rabbit, and that is were they were first exposed to material from the Thief. Is the rest of this video more accurate? No idea, I left Richard Williams Animation in 1992, so was not there to witness it… So there…

[@Festivekiller]

You can’t argue when put side by side the character designs are bizarrely similar, the one that looks most incriminating is the sultan they both are childish and plump with the same hat with a different colored feather, and Jafar vs zig zag have the same role as the advisor and bird like sidekick that they abuse, I see where you’re coming from but the evidence is daunting

[@Bratcyberspace]

Thank you for your information and work on this movie :)

[@kevinslater4126]

@@Festivekiller No, both movies borrowed from The Thief of Bagdad which is where the similarities come from. They did not borrow from each other.

[@Festivekiller]

@@kevinslater4126 never said they borrowed from each other bro you need to re read Aladdin came way after thief and cobbler

[@americancrimejournal]

​@@FestivekillerNow you're just desperate. You continue to imply that Disney "stole" from Williams and rather than spewing an uninformed opinion, just like the creator of the video, you double down. Then when pressed, you actually become desperate. First, the source material is one and same. Next, the world of animation is a very small world especially when it comes to feature films. If you hired a 100 animators today to work on a passion project you will get a bunch you came from the same studios. Considering the fact that Williams hired and fired on a whim over a 30 year period, resulted in dozens of the very same animators who were involved with Disney during its Renaissance period. Which used very similar animation from its early years. In fact, some of the same features of the characters in Aladdin were present in Snow White. Thief and the Cobbler while visually appealing is totally bankrupt when it comes to story, plot and character. Aladdin is a far better story, with fleshed out characters and legitimate plot, something absent from Cobbler. So your argument is illegitimate and nothing more than the typical "Disney ruined my precious Star Wars" argument. No, Star Wars fans ruined Star Wars and Disney did everything in their power to appease them and yes, capitalize off of it. Ignoring the fact that George Lucas fans soent years bashing Lucas and accusing him of "ruining their childhood" because he kept changing the game and had little respect for the EU, saying it was not cannon. Williams is not a victim. The Thief and the Cobbler is not an original story. You're not a victim.

[@Mooms]

Fun fact: At the end of the original cut of the movie when Tack speaks, Sean Connery was supposed to voice him for his one line, but he reportedly never showed up so a friend of Richard’s wife stepped in to voice Tack for that scene

[@LikaLaruku]

That would have been every bit al ill-fitting as the voice he ended up with.

[@BananaPhoPhilly]

What an odd choice… isn’t Tac supposed to be like 19 years old? Lol

[@simon3256]

it would be cooler if his voice at the end was more like his voice of the miramax version

[@Swordsoulreaver]

@@LikaLaruku I think they wanted it to be unexpected.

[@enough2715]

@@BananaPhoPhilly literally where did you get that specific age from? Lol

[@vexusvexed]

Someone should really start a Re-Cobbled Reanimated of the missing scenes. If nothing else, it would help tie William’s vision together more. The internet is filled with brilliant artist minds, many who contribute their free time to reanimated projects. It's a perfect storm.

[@l1ghtd3m0n3]

Do I have news for you

[@DaveBustaine]

Its a thing! Search the the and the cobbler remastered

[@Eepop_stuffs]

Some of the scenes are being reanimated at the moment for the recobbled cut :)

[@RainingSunflowerz]

My favorite line from this movie is “I’m taking my balls and leaving” - Zig Zag

[@l0newolfgang]

"Now that I have the balls"

[@BananaPhoPhilly]

What makes it even better is that Vincent Price voiced it

[@ehheeajeshika]

@@BananaPhoPhilly how did I not notice? 😂 I knew I recognized his voice but I just finished watching it

[@demondog108]

💀💀💀

[@Unfortunatelebanese]

"The BAAALLSS are GOONE!!"

[@marleye3823]

Most of Disney’s start was made by animating stories that were already within the public domain. Brothers Grim/Hans Christian Andersen were a huge source for them early on... which is why it’s so absurd how litigious they are with keeping their own characters out of public reach.

[@bhyteme]

absolutely

[@Itsdianamars]

Omg not to mention them trying to gatekeep and copyright figures that have been in existence since 793 CE (Loki, Thor, Hela etc). They can use them, yes. But they don’t own them. Just cause you made a bunch of money off the characters doesn’t mean they’re automatically yours. Go ahead and put them in your parks, for all we (the Vikings of past and present) care. But do not try to copyright something you never created. End of.

[@shikitohno47]

@@Itsdianamars lmfao you're not a fucking viking loser

[@randomguy4781]

things from Lion King to Aladdin to The Land Before Time, almost everything Disney has made was copied from other sources and then they act like they're the ones who created it. its upsetting how Disney got away with blatant copyright back then but if you copy something from Disney? well then better be ready for a lawsuit. its like that quote, they climbed the ladder and then pulled it up before anybody else could climb it

[@edgardeitz5746]

@@randomguy4781 I think you're refering to the movie "Dinosaur", not "The Land Before Time", though the latter IS the basis for the *second half* for the former; the first half of "Dinosaur" is pretty much "Tarzan" with an iguanadon living with lemurs. This is ironic, given that Disney actully DID "Tarzan" as an animated movie...

[@TB-nk2dy]

As someone who has known The Thief and the Cobbler since I was little, its nice to see that people are starting to appreciate it more since its literally such an unknown movie

[@hylianhero2521]

I swear I remember seeing a trailer for The Thief and the Cobbler on some VHS tape from the 90s when I was little, but I can’t remember what the tape was. Edit: Maybe the ad for the movie was on one of our tapes from the 2000s and it was for the 2006 dvd release instead.

[@Mango-bt2gx]

same, was one of my favorite growing up

[@ivy7946]

Same I’m so happy someone talked about this movie :))

[@FuchsiaNeko]

No matter how many times I hear it, the backstory of this movie always breaks my heart. Theif and the Cobbler is the LITERAL DEFINITION of a passion project, and you can see that just through the animation itself.

[@w1nt3r_mut3]

Oh wow, I thought you would never talk about this movie. The thief and the cobbler is such a gorgeous looking movie despite it never being finished. It's too bad it never got its good ending and never got completed. Another film I could recommend that had a similar production history is The King and The Mockingbird. It's a french animated film that has a very surreal style. Unlike The thief and the cobbler, The King was actually finished and released in theaters in 1980.

[@thebedlamboy2248]

A man of excellent culture, as I am looking at whom...

[@05bastille]

Yessss! I watched it like a year ago, just out of nowhere and i was baffled that this is all that was left of it. A true master piece, the characters, the flowing animation... and to think this is all made by hand! Just thinking of the amount of work and passion that went into it makes it even more mesmerizing to watch! On that note, im gonna have to watch the King and the mockingbird. I need to feel the hole the Thief and the Cobbler has left in my heart....

[@criticalsurria6773]

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” - Romans 6:23

[@RedaDoodles]

Le Roi Et L'oiseau aka The King And The Mockingbird was only completed years after its initial release though.. :)

[@Rafael-2105]

It's sad because had he dialed it back on the perfectionism just a tiny bit. He could've met his deadline. And I know it wouldn't have 100% matched his vision but working in the industry is a game of compromise. There's not a single movie that meets the vision of who created it to 100% and that's just because it is a team effort and you need to let certain things go in order to move the project forward.

[@zeroattentiongaming820]

Star Wars Episode 2 is 100% the creative vision of George Lucas, right down to the awkward, stilted performances. Those were exactly the performances he wanted. Showing that even if you can make something perfectly match your vision, maybe you shouldn't.

[@Rafael-2105]

@@zeroattentiongaming820 exactly. Game of compromise. If someone who knows more about acting had told him no and had offered to help him bring out better performances in the actors. We could've gotten ourselves a better movie.

[@chasetokutaro9850]

The production interference that happened to Richard Williams during the making of The Thief and The Cobbler is maybe one of the biggest tragedies to happen in animation history.

[@Uninterested69420]

Meet the Robinson’s?

[@tobbs5410]

@FrauMagpie Except they didn't give him unlimited artistic freedom. They were trying to force him to add songs, delete scenes and characters and make the film more commercial from the moment they got involved.

[@criticalsurria6773]

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” - Romans 6:23

[@amtrakfan9125]

@@criticalsurria6773 Stop spreading this bullshit everywhere you go. go back to the 16th century, missionary spambot

[@TheStOne1]

No, they "saved" a movie that otherwise would have never been released and would have never even have a plot. Richard Williams was a terrible director.

[@longforari]

I do wanna add we shouldn't frame William's treatment of his animation tean as good. Obviously he didn't deserve to be robbed, but seriously firing over 100 employees and having such an unprofessional work schedule isn't cool.

[@TheVizWiz811]

what do you mean by unproffesional work schedule?

[@miasciacca7629]

idk the precise details but pretty much Williams was given a deadline for when the film should be completed and he was told if he didn't meet the deadline then Disney would take over and take the production from him, unfortunately due to his 'perfectionism' he did not meet the deadline and thus he had an unprofessional work schedule. @@TheVizWiz811

[@mariethecat3021]

@@TheVizWiz811he didnt even made a storyboard for his team to work on, leaving them working on unreliable schedules.

[@TheVizWiz811]

@@mariethecat3021he did make storyboards? and at the same time if there wasnt a storyboard they would just use an outdated storyboard from the 60s 70s or 80s

[@Greystorm1619]

It is sad what Disney did to Richard Williams, but I feel like the real tragedy is about someone so perfectionistic that he would spend 30 years on a film that would never be completed. All the stories about him throwing out years worth of work and firing hundreds of animators just comes off as foolish rather than a stroke of artistic genius (I know that Disney had very similar perfectionist tendencies, but he had his brother Roy as his business manager to reel him in). The film is really beautiful and I commend all the effort, but done is always better than perfect. All of my animation teachers used to say this. If I was in Disney’s place I might have done the same thing, just because this film had taken 30 years and clearly was never going to get done.

[@appleglassjuice11]

Yeah what Disney did honestly wasn't too surprising. If you're a manager and your employee was taking MONTHS to finish this project that you given them, then yeah you're gonna make a deadline to shut that shit down.

[@goobleron]

He's praised for his passion but in reality he was clearly too consumed with the project for his own good and the animation is amazing, yes, but the movie itself isn't great, its better than the miramax version but even the recobbled version unfortunately isn't this amazing world changing perfect animated movie, its a tragic story in alot of ways.

[@flharojmano2857]

Disney wasn't even involved. It was Warner Brothers who gave the deadline. The plan for disney to fund the movie never came to pass.

[@k1ttkw1snky69]

Personally, I like perfection a bit. Or at least making it as good as possible. I make stories. I’ll make a story one year, and the next I’ll get rid of it, change it, or add stories. Some old scripts I keep and revamp with better writing. But, yeah to take 31 years, it’s impressive dedication to artistic integrity, but it’s definitely too long. It was still wrong what Disney did to his work. He deserved better. And probably a partner to help him so he wouldn’t go off the rails with perfection but also to help speed up the process.

[@Painocus]

Most of that long time was when he was basically paying for it himself and/or doing it in his free time. When they took it from him it was almost done. Many of the unfinnished scenes in the fan edit was actually done, but the footage was either lost, or edited so much by Miramax that it couldn't be salvaged. Honestly, if they just let him finnish the little footage remaining himself it might have been done sooner and cheaper then with all of Miramax editing, new animation, new musical scenes, new writing and new voice acting.

[@OutWithTheOdd]

I am literally OBSESSED with the character designs for this movie. They are so eye-catching, charismatic, and just very lovable, hero or not! It's such a fucking tragedy for what Disney did to this man's work. His passion project. His baby. THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS MASTERPIECE

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

Disney had nothing to do with it, though. The blame lies squarely with Warner Bros. for getting impatient with William's slow and gradual perfectionist approach and taking the production out of his hands.

[@yosefdemby8792]

@@geoffreyrichards6079 If he didn't want such a takeover to happen he shouldn't've signed a deal with them in the first place.

[@christianraxo7535]

This movie is an art piece. It's eye candy. The story is a little hard to follow but I'm never tired of it. Richard Williams KNEW what he was doing, he had a great vision

[@e2002m]

it’s a lot easier to follow if you watch the re-cobbled version which replaces the gaps in the story with the storyboards

[@myheartbelongstowhat]

I watched this movie constantly as a kid, idk what version but I had the vhs tape of it, when I say it's one of the most prominent animated movies to stand out for me as a child, I just recently re-discovered it through chatgpt because for the life of me I could not remember the title :p

[@ArchBingus]

I wrote a paper on this film and it's production hell cycle. The downfall of the movie was (sadly) on Richard Williams inability to call it quits on a shot and what ended up being the final nail in the coffin; up until the last bit of funding he received from Warner Bros, the film was ENTIRELY UNBOARDED, meaning the amazing sequences of animation really had no connection to each other and were stand alone.(as someone that just wants to draw the cool scenes I understand this bone deep) Richard had gone up until the final deadline Warner had given him to DO THE STORYBOARDING (so the animators that went to Disney after leaving his production really only had character designs and finished sequences to go off of, as there were no boards up until the final months). Obviously, he did not meet the deadline. So, Warner Bros seized the entire project and handed it off to the very less talented Completion Bond Company, where Fred Calvert took over. He added alot of scenes that make sequencing between original scenes very awkward. In total it received two butcherings, the first from him, which was released in 1993 outside of the US, THEN AGAIN by Weinstein who edited and released it in the US after aquiring it from the Bond Company through Miramax. If you've got time, check out the documentary on TTatC "The Persistence of Vision". Very comprehensive history with some interviews with the animators.

[@tobbs5410]

Utter bullshit. Storyboards for this film existed since the 1960s and there's literal footage of them in use.

[@ArchBingus]

@@tobbs5410 Quote Philip Pepper, a lead animator, from the Persistence of Vision (2012) documentary made entirely about the behind the scenes production of the film: "We really started to realize something was afoot when Dick started to storyboard the movie. At the end of the movie. It's just an unusual way of doing it. He was creating storyboard frames and they were the bits we hadn't done, he was kind of filling it in around all of these incredible sequences so that he could at least put together a cut that told the rest of the story." He had done boards and fully animated for three decades on very specific scenes (several of which were cut because they didn't work with his final storyboards that were pulling the whole thing together) but never the entire film. It's a very interesting docu and it should still be available on Internet Archive.

[@tobbs5410]

@@ArchBingus Yeah, it's peculiar that one dude who seemed to hate his guts over petty slap fights had absolutely nothing positive to say... Over the hundreds of testimonies from people who knew him for decades who had their own stories. I'm not sure if you can make a cake out of those cherries you picked, but maybe your own dislike of the film is what's clouding your judgement.

[@tobbs5410]

@@ArchBingus Also, you're going to take some shithead's word over the plethora of documented video evidence of storyboards being a thing since the fucking 60s? Seriously?

[@ArchBingus]

@@tobbs5410 and those hundreds of people who knew him showed up to talk about him in the Persistence of Vision. It was not just one man that testified to the incompletion of the boards. The film was not finished. Not all of that footage you are referring to came from the sixties and most of it has been complied into PoV as reference material. That whole documentary talks about how TatC evolved from a two character comic strip to an amazing piece of animation, that unfortunately never lived up to it's massive expectations. It is not an opinion piece, it is a love letter to what could have been. I myself love this film and it holds a near and dear place in my heart as the greatest 2D hand drawn animated feature to date. I could talk forever about the animated camera movement of the staircase and city shots that not even Disney dared to replicate. That is why material like PoV is important to know what happened. If you love thief and the cobbler I encourage you to watch it. Here's the link: archive.org/details/persistenceofvision_202001

[@kriticalitylives]

Despite the not so tight script, and the songs being forgettable as all hell, the animation in this movie was So fucking gorgeous. I can't say that the troubled history of this film led to it being worth it, but that animation, holy shit.

[@BionicPIGtv]

If you watch through the whole video. the songs werent supposed to be in the movie and same with the tight script. That was all Mirimax's fault.

[@thefantasticretroreviewer3941]

@@BionicPIGtv I guess you have a fair point

[@Bard420]

@Nonaya Bidness Oh my god have some respect for fuck sake; if it's so easy, you re-create it.

[@CarterDeLeo]

@@Bard420 People are allowed to not like the final product of something without having to recreate it themselves first.

[@appleglassjuice11]

@Nonaya Bidness I know this is your opinion, but what a fucking shit opinion.

[@pengmaeda9908]

Did we really not learn from the Kimba controversy? Like legit it is very possible it was a coincidence. "Look how similar these films are, Disney must have stolen it!" The story of Aladdin is an old folk tale. Its not new. In 1939 there was even an Poppeye the sailor man cartoon that did the Aladdin story. What was the plot? Well a peasant falls in love with a princess and gets tricked by an evil sorcerer into getting a magic lamp with a Quirky Genie character- yadayada. Oh ya I guess there wasn't a bird in that one, but you get the point.

[@jabber1990]

Aladdin might have ripped-off Thief and Cobbler, BUT The Thief and the Cobbler ripped-off Aladdin

[@SushiSheik3]

The Theif and the Cobbler with the LEGEND... the Theif. Best charcter EVER.

[@Irishnfire]

Thief*

[@criticalsurria6773]

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” - Romans 6:23

[@SlimThief]

@@criticalsurria6773 no-one cares

[@neonicon8500]

@@SlimThief no one*

[@66DoodleGal]

He literally stole the show

[@itsliyah_qgirl9323]

I’m freaking out, this movie has been in the back of my mind for YEARS. I’ve always remembered it as “the movie with the zig zag man” and was never able to remember what the movie actually was. Even as a kid I was so intrigued by the animation style, I barely took my eyes off the screen.

[@daaviinee]

Richard Williams is such a genius for creating The Thief and the Cobbler, he inspires me as an animator. Everything in the film is so beautiful, all the patterns and optical illusions are amazing.

[@shelbyshaper]

I studied his work in my undergrad and I was always blown away that someone could have such talent!

[@alxa1683]

Nice ergo proxy pfp

[@fartmagus]

absolutely we should see him as a legend, its masterfully done from just the little ive seen of it.

[@haileybalmer9722]

Aladdin and The Sword and the Stone also draw very heavily from a German film called The Adventures of Prince Achmed, one of the first color movies ever made. It’s a shadow puppet film made in 1926, and it’s gorgeous. Walt Disney deeply admired the director, Lotte Reiniger, and was inspired by her invention, the multiplane camera. The scene at the end of Sword and the Stone, where Merlin and Mim battle, is lifted almost shot for shot from The Adventures of Prince Achmed. Then there’s Aladdin. Aladdin is a character in The Adventures of Prince Achmed, and if you’ve got a keen eye for storyboarding and color palettes, you’re going to find a lot of Aladdin’s story looks familiar. I’m not sure how you’d feel about reviewing it, it’s a very strange pick for this kind of channel, and very very VERY few people alive today watched it as children. I absolutely recommend you watch it, though. It’s a beautiful film.

[@sesfilmsllc]

The fact that this was Vincent Prices last movie. (Yeah I know he recorded his dialogue 20 years before the film was released) is a fitting end for the Williams version and an slap in the face for the Miramax version.

[@LikaLaruku]

I've heard from a totally different documentary that came out after this one that Vincent Price had actually done the voice acting for this movie in the 60s. Probably the only remaining voice work form the original version of Nasrudin. Despite all of the many voice recasts this movie went through, Vincent Price's prerecorded voice work was never replaced. It is possible & even likely that he was called back to do new lines. But the fact that he did most or all of the voice acting decades before the movie was released means it's not even one of his last 10 movies.

[@FrootDeMoN]

Dude. Aladdin is a very famous story translated to many languages and cultures from India to Africa so like it's not crazy that someone did the story before. Did people thought Disney wrote the story of aladdin? Love your vids btw

[@bhyteme]

thank you! i was looking for this comment like…. this story is a part of so many cultures and i don’t think it could possibly be dated, since there are still so many oral versions of it floating around among people who don’t even know what disney is

[@kemistree.]

Yes... and no... Disney is kinda known for being full of cooperate weiners. Its kinda sus that only a short time after the deadline for the Thief and the Cobbler that Aladdin was released. You could say the Aladdin movie was taken from Arabian Nights... or The Thief of Baghdad, or any other iteration of the story/legend but Disney specifically tried to snuff out a single hard working animator to make money before he did. They knew he was working on this story and still released a different movie with the same plotline.

[@FrootDeMoN]

@@kemistree.yes. I also like to add that I actually did read the original aladdin story. And the design of the genie and his whole personality was actually stolen from the animation that he was talking about and most of the visuals WAS very close to the animation than the book Like, aladdin didn't even took place in an Arab country the story took place in China and a French translator added the story to the book which wasn't very uncommon back then persian countries also did add their own stories to the book AND the book doesn't even have 1001 stories. It was actually a translation mistake by Arabian translators from the persian version of the book witch was 1000 nights and BIG HUGE PLOT TWIST THAT WAS ALSO NOT THE NAME OF THE BOOK ! THE ACTUAL BOOK WAS WRITTEN BY A INDIAN WRITER AND I FOUND THIS BY ASKING THIS TO THE HISTORY THATCHER OF MY COLLEGE AND I ALSO READ SOME BOOKS ABOUT IT WHICH WAS WRITTEN BY MIDDLE EASTERN HISTORIANS AND NOT SOME FRENCH GUY I JUST REALISED WIKIPEDIA PAGE DOESN'T HAVE ANY OF THAT. WHY? LIKE I THOUGHT EVERYBODY KNOWS 1001 NIGHTS ISN'T AN ARABIAN BOOK this is the only thing I did research on that Deep to this day The origin of aladdin truly is Twisted I think I'm slowly going insane. Help

[@eelguttz885]

I would also like to mention that Howard Ashman thought of making the movie Aladdin way before of course it was changed drastically from what he wanted way after his death. All im saying is that like the kimba and lion king thing, stories can be very similar to one another with out being copied or ripped off

[@FrootDeMoN]

@@eelguttz885 true! But you know, I wish the problem was just the fact that aladdin was a rip off . It's not the only problem 80 percent of what you see in aladdin is super racist and anti Muslim and the amount of harmful things and stereotypes in it are disgustingly high. You might even think some of them are true but they aren't I personally don't care if the aladdin is actually a rip off or not anymore . It's still very bad

[@scharb]

Most of these similarities are also common to the source material, “The 1001 Nights,” which is definitely public domain.

[@Mrs_Sugar_Min]

I love the 1001 Nights, it's so cool.😊😊 I love fairy tales.♥️

[@Selnathorn]

Yeah, pretty much. Sure Disney screwed over Richard Williams over, but other media before Aladdin also had certain characteristics from said story. The first Prince of Persia comes to mind, down to the vezir being called Jaffar

[@BionicPIGtv]

Yeah but the timing, the character designs, and so much more begs to differ. you cant write off everything that disney took as a coincidence.

[@Mrs_Sugar_Min]

@@BionicPIGtv very true.🤷

[@patrickbrisson1]

@@BionicPIGtv imagine spending 31 years trying to make the greatest animated movie of all time and the people who helped you make it just steal the whole thing and throw you under the bus never to let your masterpiece see the light of day. God I feel bad for William

[@samuellocke674]

It's amazing how many details in this video are wrong. It didn't take 14 years to get the first ten minutes of animation. The project started as a film called "Nasrudin" based on an illustrated book he'd worked on with Idries Shah. Nasrudin was almost complete when there was a falling out between Williams and Shah (which included accusations of Shah's son embezzling from the project) So Williams was left with only the original characters he'd created to pad out the film, so that's why just that little bit of animation was created. He animated on ones, not twos. When the deal fell through with Disney he brought the film to warner bros. And warners, to ensure the film was released by 1992 brought in a bond company as insurance. If anything fell through the bond company would be in charge. When Williams didn't have the film completed in time, Warners got nervous and pulled out. This meant the bond Company was now in charge and sent Fred Calvert to look at the film and give his opinion. His opinion was the film would never be completed under Williams' perfectionist style and the bond company gave the film to Calvert to finish. From there the distribution was sold to Mirimax who at the time was a subsidiary of Disney, who released their own cut of the film.

[@candy_ribbons]

THANK YOU

[@animecraze556]

The only downsides with this film is that it was unfinished many times during production from in and out and was sent to third-party companies for distribution, which were Warner Bros and Miramax. However it was hugely edited and for some reason, some of the interesting scenes that was from the original was cut out. Which made the duration of the film seemed very rushed

[@jenniferschillig3768]

In all fairness, the plot elements of Disney's Aladdin seem to be a re-hash of a LOT of earlier Arabian Nights retellings. The "peasant in love with princess" and "evil vizier out for his own advancement" were in the original fairy tale, but there were even more similarities in 1940's The Thief of Bagdad, a color fantasy/adventure film that featured a character named Abu (who, being a roguish young thief, is rather similar to Disney's Aladdin), a plot about a royal in disguise as a commoner, a beautiful princess whose father, the Sultan, is scatterbrained and loves mechanical toys, a genie who grants three wishes, and an evil vizier named Jaffar (one extra "f") who is also a magic-user and has designs on both the Princess and the kingdom.

[@SydyS7]

I don’t really think of William’s as a victim. He fired tons of people who put hours and days and weeks into animating and working and he fires them and puts them out a job. I would probably bring his movie to Disney after working so hard to just get fired by a guy who took 30 years to make a movie.

[@CarterDeLeo]

Yeah, he sounds like he fostered a terrible working environment and didn't even finish the project at the end of it all. I'm skeptical this story is as one-sided as it seems from this video.

[@cosmo1018]

I keep forgetting about that, like if I were Disney and I have to wait for this guy to finish his passion project for decades long mostly him being a perfectionist then I would honestly go impatient, although rushing it and release it after Aladdin is pretty scummy.

[@delete---7593]

Sorry but sounds stupid like stealing someone's work right?. 😑

[@delete---7593]

@@CarterDeLeo 😑

[@delete---7593]

@@cosmo1018 😑

[@bloodybee3553]

Neither one is stolen, they're based on the same story found in the book 1001 Arabian Nights, which is a collection of stories similar to the Grimms' book collection of fairy tales.

[@sydbee4520]

I saw the recobbled version a few years ago on KZbin with a friend and to this day it is one of the most magnificently animated things I've ever seen. I feel so treasured that I somehow found it on a forum post or another all those years ago in high school. I still think about it years later that's how amazing it truly is, even in it's unfinished state. Thanks for talking about this movie!

[@mayhair]

12:56 Gasp! It's almost as if every medieval tower had circling stairs! Shock horror!

[@LyricNear]

I was about to be very upset to not see Garrett getting proper appreciation for his work! But I'M SO GLAD you shouted him out properly! He has his own channel The Thief Archive, which is the one I'd recommend watching it on. The version Pig has linked to is a reupload :/ Garrett is not only compiling old cuts, he's quite literally cleaning up animation frame-by-frame! He is also working on Raggedy Ann and Andy, another Richard Williams movie that absolutely flopped. The animation is similarly stunning.

[@Mooms]

I’m glad Raggedy Ann and Andy is getting recognition, I know it’s fucking weird (The Greedy, Looney Land) but I love it.

[@LyricNear]

@@Mooms Unfortunately it suffers from the same thing Thief does, being more interesting as an art film than for the casual viewer.

[@Mooms]

@@LyricNear Yeah, it also has its downsides too. But I’m just glad it’s getting recognition, especially considering that Raggedy Ann isn’t as popular as she used to be back then (I know a lot of people consider her scary because of you-know-who)

[@LyricNear]

@Fredrick Bagguette Thank you! Shame it got buried so quickly.

[@tonpokatsu0013]

Recently, i watched the thief and the cobbler and hoboy i'm in love with how they design the cobbler. Those nails as his mouth is a genius.

[@emd1494]

The Thief and the Cobbler calmed my ADHD as a kid, it still does as an adult. I LOVE all the busy backgrounds etc. In the original I am sure the thief didn't talk.. but when I watched a copy recently they had added words to the thief .. didn't like it as much as much. Aladdin.. the thief and the Cobbler has way more nostalgia for me 😁

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

You do realize that Aladdin was an ancient folktale, right? “The Thief and the Cobbler” was only inspired by the “1001 Arabian Nights” stories whereas Disney’s film was a direct adaptation of one of the stories. And the idea of adapting it to the screen was from Howard Ashman.

[@amoeba_in_glasses]

he dont care, he only want loud title to attract attention XD

[@andrejslukins9637]

I had a very similar experience with this film. Watched it as a wee kid, forgot about it, searched for it for ages as an adult, believing that I imagined it, just to learn about this most depressing story of a greatest animation film the general public has no idea about.

[@JanieBee]

I would just like to mention the story Arabian nights is in the public domain along with Cinderella, rumpelstiltskin, rapunzel, etc :)

[@Bon-Bon2402]

My mind has been more b l o w n like the time I discovered Disney's "The Little Mermaid."

[@gamingpanda7516]

My mind has been even more blown when I found out Cinderella was a ripoff of Cinderella

[@Bon-Bon2402]

@@gamingpanda7516 NOOO WAAYYY- 🤣

[@charliepea]

What I remembered about the whole copy thing, Aladdin was based on the ancient 1000 Nights (which is public domain) while The Cobbler was based on a quite modern story by an Arab (which was not yet public domain and Williams had conflict with copyright laws that's why it took quite long as well). I can say the stories are coincidental, but the thing are the character designs (especially Jafar and Zigzag and the two rubies). Disney might've gotten huge inspirations to the Cobbler.

[@shiakamatsu463]

I was obsessed with this movie as a kid and I found it so cool and great. Nowadays I ask ppl about it and it seems like a Jimmy neutron fever dream.

[@sassy2131]

what if I told you, Aladdin is ACTUALLY a short story from the book 1001 Nights, which is a collection of short stories which originated originally in China. - AND there have been SEVERAL other movies about Aladdin or similar all involving a magic lamp since 1901.

[@TheVizWiz811]

but aladdin still harmed the thief and the cobbler, it made warner bros scared to produce it any further and in may 15th 1992 they lost interest and the rest is history

[@amoeba_in_glasses]

@@TheVizWiz811 title of the video is "Aladdin is a STOLEN movie: The Thief and the Cobbler". Who stole what from who?

[@TheVizWiz811]

@@amoeba_in_glasses Aladdin actually did steal tiny bits from The Thief and The Cobbler but not a whole lot, that's not my point, Aladdin is most likely what ruined Warner Brothers confidence with the film since they had already heard all these rumors about how Richard didn't know what he was doing and since he already missed the 1991 deadline they just gave up, they looked at the workprint and decided that it just wasn't worth it anymore and that it'll never be finished in time, so they gave the film to the completion bond company and the rest happened

[@RelicCipher]

At the start of the semester, we were asked to write a short response on if we had the class over for a movie, what movie would show them, and i chose this, just because it has such an amazing story behind it. I was drawn to this movie because of its animation and its such a shame we never got to see it as it was fully envisioned. Its definitely a work of art.

[@PatchworthGaming]

It makes me wonder if a Reanimated version could be made. A lot of online artists have reanimated cartoon episodes but at most those have been 11 minutes long. It would be a monumental effort to do it for a full length movie

[@montajedelespectador]

Sailormoon make up reanimated are one chapter of 23minutes but every animator only did at least 24fps or 12 or 8 or less

[@ToxiKrisis]

glad I caught the real one, not the rip-off that was posted earlier

[@AxxLAfriku]

IT is weird indeed. Everywhere I comment, people tell me how much they love me and my content. Sometimes IT is annoying. But right now, IT would be okay. So say something nice about my content, dear id

[@potatobomb13]

@@AxxLAfriku your content is nice AxxL

[@MiceWithLice]

@@AxxLAfriku YOU AGAIN?!

[@tacolord2485]

@@AxxLAfriku no

[@montajedelespectador]

Is like antz or bugs live controversy who copied who? DreamWorks to Pixar o Pixar from DreamWorks?

[@MarcMarioMaster]

I think this is sadly just as a misconception as people telling Lion King ripped off Kimba. The people working on on The Thief and the Cobbler, you would be surprised actually also worked on Aladdin. The movie sure is nice in regards of its animation but Aladdin doesn't steal motifs as both works are already based on Arabian Nights. I recommend watching more videos on the subject. There are some neat insights on how the Thief and the Cobbler got finished as well. EDIT: Highly recommend watching the History of the Thief and the Cobbler video series by ElectricDragon505

[@reggilad_9043]

The whole think about kimba and lion king is purely a hoax though, this has proper evidence and evidence behind it on the other hand

[@Capydapy]

omg thankyou. This whole video is just the whole Kimba thing all over again. omg.

[@didymus3348]

@@reggilad_9043 But this video is falsely stating that Disney was financing the film and that they gave Williams the deadline. It was actually Warner Bros that was financing the film.

[@didymus3348]

@videoluver7 no they didn't. Warner financed the film from 88-92.

[@bhyteme]

the kimba controversy isn’t really anything like this at all, considering the amount of content was incomparable with the lion king. these movies are the same length. not saying that you’re incorrect, i feel like a lot of this is coincidental, but it’s just not a comparable at all. the kimba controversy was truly based off nothing

[@theVoxvirus]

I remember hearing about this movie from the Nostalgic Man but you went into so much more detail into what happened and everything which was really neat to hear

[@Nothingtoseehere-eo7zq]

Yeah and this video was half the fucking length too

[@theVoxvirus]

@@Nothingtoseehere-eo7zq this is also true!

[@hannahpestell18]

I dont think it was a lie at all when they made the original agreement but in the same way nickelodeon had to kick jhon K for being a perfectionist who couldn't deliver on time (among other things) they just couldn't reasonably keep sinking in money to a project with no returns for years. And I dont really think the similarities warrent it being called a rip off . thats I feel shows a lack of real understanding of how the animation industry works. Though I dont doubt some ideas were osmosis-ed

[@atomicskull6405]

They kicked John K for that but also for basically not listening to what the bossed wanted and basicly making an adult cartoon and putting it on a kid's network.

[@Heretowatchvideos123]

Yeah I heard that he scraped scenes in episode because a few expressions were reused

[@qweeanbee]

We got it out of a Kellogs cereal box, and absolutely loved this movie as a kid

[@TheZodiacKnight]

Good lord! I can be a bit of a perfectionist myself sometimes, but even I wouldn't throw away months worth of work over a color palette. But also gotta bare in mind all this also took place during a time when animation was a lot harder to do. But does show that Williams was based as fuck!

[@TheVizWiz811]

he wouldnt throw away scenes over the colors, that's a old anecdote made by animators who wanted him to look crazy, what I think this anecdote is based off of is that in the original shot of king nod telling zigzag about his dream of death the background had a lot more red, this film was made on cels so if he wanted to change the colors he would just replace the background, the only time the color palette was changed was whenever Miramax and fred calvert stepped in and changed how some of the colors look

[@EgoOsbourne]

I like to draw while listening to these videos, so I usually just glance at the screen from time to time. But this movie is so gorgeous, I hardly got any work done in the past twenty minutes. Couldn’t take my eyes off the scenes that were shown. Beautiful work.

[@MistySophie]

This animation gives me old Russian animated movies in the way that it's almost like an art masterpiece but itself and I love it

[@TheVizWiz811]

i mean in the original version they use scheherazade by rimsky korsakov and the Russian easter festival by rimsky korsakov is used

[@rottytherottski522]

We had it on VHS thanks to an amazing family friend who knew about it and gave it to us. I also grew up with it being my favorite movie even if it was the Miramax cut. And later in life finding the recobbled edition was amazing. It’s believed Disney has a ton more of the footage and storyboards kept under lock and key and have refused to work with the recobbled cut in any way. Which is sad because it is known that there was a lot more which had been shown in screenings and completed of the movie but is impossible to find.

[@JJ-cf3vk]

0:40 oh my gosh I live near that exact same building, I used to go there as a kid. I could literally just drive to that place

[@diegobareno5820]

I was obsessed with this movie as a kid.

[@carrotdtop_1]

Same here as while it's quite the hidden gem

[@theevillittleperson2]

When I was a child Kellogg's did a thing, in Canada at the very least, where they had movies in cereal boxes, and I remember specifically it was a fruit loops box that's had this movie in it. It was a favourite with the siblings and myself for years, to the point we destroyed the dvd from over use

[@celiafraze123]

God I’ve got to watch this movie now, never even heard of it but oh my god it is beautiful. I’m an animation student in college, absolutely blown to pieces by that chase scene. It’s my favorite thing without even watching the whole thing

[@IDVTuber]

I don't see Aladdin as a stolen work of the Thief and the Cobbler.. in my opinion they are both stand on their own works of art and sure they're similarities between the two.. Aladdin is also from the Book of "A Thousand and One Nights" and the Thief and the Cobbler is it's own story that was made up from someone's imagination (of the more modern day era).. Aladdin had a story to go on; whereas, the Thief and the Cobbler didn't (e.g. it doesn't come from a really old book like "A Thousand and One Nights" or like "Beauty and the Beast" or "Alice in Wonderland", etc). And I love both movies in their right and property as they are and they are their own stories and hey Tak did say one thing that I'll always agree with.. Tak said, "Before the tales of Aladdin and Alibaba.... that he would be the 'first' Arabian Knight." (Quote is off ik, but I find these the most important in his quote.) They're are worser knockoffs then these claims here. The Thief and the Cobbler and Aladdin are far from it in my book. They are both beautiful and way better than any lame cheap knockoff attempt.

[@amandagarcia5625]

THANK YOU FOR RECOGNIZING THIS MASTERPIECE IVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR IT FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@XLseattle]

Disney’s Aladdin came out in 1992. Disney acquired Miramax in 1993 but it continued to operate as an independent company until 2005. So the copying and then shredding of The Thief and The Cobbler had to have happened prior to the acquisition which is actually more nefarious.

[@goobleron]

The Thief and the Cobbler is a beautiful looking movie, but its definetely overhyped, I think the story behind the movie is much more interesting than the movie itself. Richard Williams was clearly consumed with passion in this project and alot of what happened was his own doing, although thats not to say he wasn't fucked over too. Its tragic in more ways than one. But I do think you're reaching in alot of ways with saying Aladdin is a rip off of the Thief and the Cobbler, alot of what you point out is more logically explained in saying that its taken from the original source material of Arabian Nights.

[@shawnfields2369]

I agree. Aladdin is NOT a rip off, and neither is The Thief And The Cobbler. It's just that, the The Theif & The Cobbler, was never finished, as both Vincent Price and Richard Williams both died before this movie was finished, and Aladdin WAS finished, and like you said, Aladdin was based off the source material of the legendary Arabian Nights, which existed THOUSANDS of years before the Thief and the Cobbler did, but that's not to say either movie's bad. Honestly, I think you can enjoy BOTH The Thief & The Cobbler, AND Aladdin. You don't HAVE to think that one is ripping off the other, just because The Thief & The Cobbler wasn't finished, and it's creator died 2 years ago. It's NOT a bad movie, just an unfinished one, that was Vincent Price's final movie(he was Zig-Zag, the main villain), and Matthew Broderick was Tack, the main character, but this was all in the crappy Miramax Cut. The Recobbled Cut is version Bionic Pig is talking about. I've heard people talk about this movie before, but to say it's a ripoff of Aladdin is just doing Aladdin a disservice, and saying The Thief & The Cobbler is the "real" Aladdin, just sounds like a bad joke. I don't think either movie is bad. Sure, I've never seen The Thief & The Cobbler, but while I have seen Aladdin, it doesn't mean I don't ever want to see Thief & The Cobbler. And while I am sorry that Richard Williams was never quite able to finish his life's work, it doesn't mean that what he did make wasn't good, it's just that Aladdin was more impressive, and actually WAS finished. Not to say that what Richard Williams gave us wasn't ANY good whatsoever, I just haven't seen it myself. Doesn't mean I'd never want to, it's just that what Aladdin did, with it's cast, and the art direction, the voices, having the late, great, Robin Williams, and Gilbert Gottfried, as Iago, it's just those were more important at the time. But if you like The Thief & The Cobbler more, go right ahead. I wouldn't stop you. It's just, I prefer Aladdin more. Because I've seen it. But I'll gladly give Thief & The Cobbler a chance someday. Both versions, the Miramax Cut, with Matthew Broderick and the late, great Vincent Price, and the Recobbled Cut, which finished the movie, and takes out the voices; and is just done through art drawings. Which look good, from what I've seen. But Aladdin is NOT a ripoff. Neither is Thief and the Cobbler. Sorry if this went on too long.

[@Painocus]

Have you actually read the original Aladdin story? Because almost none of the similarties are in it. Hell the places where Aladdin is the most like the original story is in the places where it differs the most from The Thief and the Cobbler (Aladin being a small-time criminal, Wizard sending Aladdin to get the lamp, Aladdin using a Jinn to get rich so he can marry a princes.) None of the other similarities mentioned are in the original Aladdin. The wizard is not the King's vizir, there is no plot to get the king to mary his daughter to him, etc. etc. In the original story the "make me a rich/prince" thing straight up works right away and the rest of the story is just the wizard and his brother trying to trick Aladdin's wife into giving them the lamp. It does not even take place in the middle-east, but in China.

[@loaddropper7772]

What a dumb take.

[@niesamowitagabichan3394]

@@shawnfields2369 the original aladin does not take place in arabic country

[@shawnfields2369]

@@niesamowitagabichan3394 Okay, and?

[@carsonheffner268]

If I remember correctly Aladin and the magic lamp was an old Arabic story and existed first. So I think Disney was inspired to make it because of him but used a preexisting story to make the story

[@sycomonky4993]

To be fair, the Arabian Nights were around for a long time

[@spiderinthecereal]

I can’t explain how much I love the theif and the cobbler, it’s such an interesting movie and I’m obsessed with it, the art is so unusual and different than things ive seen I adore the backgrounds and how they’re like optical illusions, also the Theif is iconic and one of the funniest characters of all times even if he’s better written in the re cobbled cut, his cheap little jokes always make me laugh.

[@ka_zooie]

Dude I can’t help it, I absolutely loved the thief’s voice and his inner monologue. There were a few instances that it had me in stitches as an adult

[@MrEffectfilms]

I hear what you're saying and this whole situation was indeed tragic but..... I still love Aladdin. The movies are different enough that I'm not too bothered by the similarities, the characters, character arcs, story, and themes are so different that it stands on it's own well enough. It's like trying to get mad about Kimba the White Lion and it's similarities to The Lion King.

[@22Hammy]

If youre gonna take a million years to make a film and fire a bunch of people along the way while continuously starting from scrap, what did you think was gonna happen? He probably wouldve never even have finished the film if he was still alive anyway. Every company has deadlines to release their films and at the end of the day, its all about business. He may have been a great animator, but he was a terrible businessman

[@draalttom844]

Good thing buisiness is pure bullshit made by manipulators without morales

[@BillyBob-jy1gv]

It was a passion project, not a business decision but a passion decision.

[@airotiv7916]

I know I'm late on this one but what a coincidence, apparently the animation style of this one was one of the inspirations for The Secret of Kells, in terms of when they were still trying to define the style they would go with. BIONIC, if you have not yet seen any of their films (The Secret of Kells, Song of the Sea, Breadwinner) definitely recommend, they're aboslutely beautiful. I've been dying to see Wolfwalkers, which is the film which got their name out there and now people are talking about them more. All their films are gorgeous and the stories are beautiful too. I think, if you have not yet watched them, your would really enjoy them!

[@Ledyuka]

I don't agree with you on that one. You can be a perfectionist, but spending 30 years, in addition to all the fund given for the animated movie, and not even finish it, while shitting on the animators by ruining their work for something as futile as colour palette, AND firing hundred of them for not doing enough? The project was doomed to fail. You cannot expect to mistreat your employees and not expect them to fire back at you. It really look like a vengeance from fired employees than a steal from Disney.

[@MrBoochey]

Was made in hand drawn art style in 2D fully drawn. Not computers generated. This man worked hard on this movie it was his passion project. He was trying to make the best movie out their but you just have to shit on this man’s hard work. WOW such a great guy…. Like He wanted a nice old animation style fully drawn every frame THAT TAKES TIME! How about you try it!

[@draalttom844]

Disney expects it after doing things just as disgusting

[@snakeoi8189]

@@MrBoochey So it validates firing and being a complete asshole to employees? Get the fuck out of here.

[@annien.1727]

@@draalttom844 🙄That's ridiculous. As if I'll ever believe that.

[@draalttom844]

@annien.1727 you don't believe that Disney is terrible? It's a capitalist kingdom, capitalists aren't good people

[@reggilad_9043]

I'm not gonna say disney didn't steal from this film, they probably did honestly, but aren't some of your comparison just things that happen in the original story of the Arabian knight?

[@fatbgmanbg975]

Precisely

[@cinnamonthecat9661]

...... homie did u not listen to like 90% of this video? lmao

[@nohobo23]

@@cinnamonthecat9661 the point of the comment, from what i read, is that this feels like a kimba vs simba argument again, where a common trope/royalty free story is used as the building blocks for a disney animated movie, and another movie not directly made by disney also uses this story, so it has to be a rip off

[@cinnamonthecat9661]

@@nohobo23 maybe it was just the wording that i misunderstood. cuz from my understanding, the arabian knight was the original name to the movie? (im saying this months after watching this video so i cant remember what all was stated in it). and thats the point, that they took the events and particular tropes that happened in Arabian Knight and stole it to implement it into their own disney movie...so isnt that just stealing? also i understand its an example ur using when you mention kimba simba, but this is a tooootally different circumstance because disney was involved in the ins and outs of the creation of the thief and cobbler, whereas kimba was not associated with disney in any capacity and vice versa.

[@nohobo23]

@@cinnamonthecat9661 that’s fair, i think (and i’m in the same boat, been a fat minute since i watched this) that the main point i was trying to make was that both of them are using a much older story than either of them (which is free use, similar to hamlet due to copyright age). I don’t necessarily think it’s a kimba/simba situation since disney had hands in both fields, but it’s still pretty interesting

[@AEwell5858]

Aw man, I haven't thought about this movie in years. Getting flashbacks every time I see it.

[@apersonwithnothingtodo6187]

Aladdin is based on a story that’s called Aladdin and the wonderful lamp and I believe it’s in a book called 1001 Arabian nights where you can read it yourself

[@vulpesdraco1669]

The arguments are absolutely unconvincing. Plagiarism is when you have no imagination. Borrowing in art is when you are inspired by the work of other people

[@annien.1727]

🙄Nothing was plagiarized! Aladdin DID NOT plagiarize from The Thief and the Cobbler. Saying that based only on rumors and conspiracy theories is pretty laughable. Both of them were based on the 1001 Arabian Nights stories, neither one copied from the other. Even if Aladdin was made way after The Thief and the Cobbler was made, I don't believe plagiarism was involved at all, not even in the slightest.

[@vulpesdraco1669]

@@annien.1727 I agree. Being inspired by other works and plagiarizing other works are different concepts)

[@asaalonge4338]

The Cobbler kinda freaked me out as a kid because he always had tacks in his mouth. Weirdly just seeing him now brought back that memory and it still freaks me out. Also that optical illusion palace weirded me out too. But Disney stealing the whole plot is very shitty and yet doesn't surprise me.

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

How exactly is adapting the story of Aladdin stealing the plot to “The Thief and the Cobbler”? They’re not even the same story.

[@creepykretins6794]

The thief and the cobbler is amazing for the animation alone, the reassembled copy on YT is awesome

[@madmouse1016]

Damn- now I'm depressed there was never a truly completed version-

[@vixiestarfire]

I got a DVD of The Thief and the Cobbler out of a cereal box 😂 it was around the time they were putting Air Bud movies in cereal lol

[@ninjanibba4259]

Jeez, imagine if they still did that today, the selves would be empty

[@BovineDesigns]

To call Aladdin a ripoff of Thief and The Cobbler is so reductionist. The movies have very little in common outside of common tropes. Aladdin is closer based on it's namesake's original story. A commoner wanting to be with a princess, an evil royal advisor, an object of magical power, all of these are extremely common tropes that appear in countless stories together. There's no genie in this movie which is a major part of Aladdin's arc whereas Tack is a good guy from the beginning and changes little by the end. Heck you even say it yourself, there's no magic carpet in the movie. The only reason you're calling it a ripoff is because of it's Arabic setting. Your reductionist comparisons would be just as valid had you been comparing Aladdin to the Magic Sword (1962). But you're only going to claim Aladdin ripped it off because that's a movie people actually know and like so you can make a sensationalist thumbnail for people to click on. You're no different than the Kimba conspirators.

[@_twolemons_]

Exactly. I've watched both films and like you said, beside the setting and common tropes they are pretty different stories. I'm honestly sick of seeing people claim movies or shows that have small similarities or common tropes to each other are out right copies. It's just spreading misinformation. Like, the Thief and the Cobbler is a great film with stunning animation, and is honestly underrated, but doing something like this to show it to the public eye is annoying.

[@petr79]

Tezuka productions actually thought of suing Disney, just like Disney did for Fox Peter Pan and the Pirates.

[@mayhair]

Hello BionicPIG, In terms of The Thief and Aladdin's similarities, this is NOT a black-and-white case. Do not frame it as "stealing". Aladdin did take some vague inspiration from The Thief, in terms of the Oriental theme and the princess plot. However, it has many, many differences which make it an original work. Most notably, in Aladdin, the Genie accompanies the title character throughout his journey (playing a major part in the story) and makes pop-culture jokes. The Thief's Witch, meanwhile, is a one-off character, and her humour is more based on her quirky physical movements. In fact, by adding soppy songs to The Thief, the completion bond company and Miramax were actually trying leech on Aladdin's success, against Richard Williams' wishes. So it's more accurate to say "Completion Bond/Miramax's Thief ripped off Aladdin". If we called every other movie "RIPOFF! RIPOFF!" because of such superficial similarities, then we wouldn't have movies any more. All fictional stories rely on various tropes and remain entertaining by adding their own twists to them. Both movies are actually taking from the Arabian folklore tradition. Are they lazy for this? Nope. (This is coming from someone who thought Aladdin was mediocre -- except the Genie -- and loves The Thief a lot more.)

[@TUM_Toons]

Another comparison to TTATC and Aladdin is they casted a celebrity of the time. Aladdin had Robin Williams and Gilbert Gottfried, while TTATC had Vincent Price

[@13trix63]

Aladdin is an really old fairy tayle of the book 1001 night. This book is over 1000 years old and one part of the beauty story teller sheherzde was married being the sultan the king and tell him every night story’s there never had an ending. I think we all know the story. This is so old that a lot of versions was adapted in the years

[@phoebebolz7249]

This is so insane omg-I absolutely LOVED this movie as a kid and had the same issue with no one knowing about it. I had been curious about the similarities to Aladdin and I guess my research was not as thorough as yours, because I saw the release dates and assumed that Aladdin came before. THANK YOU for correcting my misinformed self because now I feel like I can truly love this movie again knowing it’s not the ripoff but the beautiful masterpiece I knew it to be when I was a kid.

[@masteroflight7296]

Aladdin was originally a folk tail from 1704 with the exact same story and characters, including Jasmin, Jafar and Genie (though different names) there's no "stealing". both of these movies are adaptations of the original tale just like MANY of the Disney movies

[@delete---7593]

And?. 😑.

[@xena91388]

The character names: Jafar, Abu, and Genie come from the 1940 live action film The Thief of Baghdad. Disney's Aladdin is a mash-up of multiple sources.

[@TheVizWiz811]

even if aladdin didnt steal from the thief and the cobbler it made warner bros scared to keep on producing the thief and I think it was the final nail to pull the string on this production, warner didn't want to compete with disney and all the anecdotes in this video and others are other reasons why warner got scared

[@haleyd7448]

okay i totally get that the thief and the cobbler was underrated and got screwed over by disney, but imo it's poetic justice for the way richard williams treated the workers that actually made all of his little ideas into a reality.

[@tobbs5410]

I mean, the animators, including his own son and daughters, were pretty devastated by the loss of the project too, so not really.

[@mikemorro140]

@@tobbs5410 I mean yeah if you worked that hard on something ofcourse that doesn't make him less bad though

[@tobbs5410]

@@mikemorro140 Literally everybody worked hard on it, his own animators and him especially. He spent a whole year animating a scene that lasted only for a minute while juggling commercial work to carry on surviving. Richard Williams was never 'bad.' Flawed, but having researched his work, spoken with both him and animators about the film and learned as much as I can about the history of the studio there was so much more nuance to him than just 'bad', and to say so is disrespecting and downplaying his legacy by miles. Unless you mean he was a 'bad' artist, which is just as equally absurd. I don't think you realise that when this project went belly up, it hurt not only him, but his family, friends and colleagues just as equally, who had helped see it through. So acting as though he was somehow deserving of his fate (a fate that almost drove him to slit his own wrists, I might add) does the hundreds of people who contributed to the film, including Ken Harris, Art Babbitt and Alex Williams, a disservice also. And these were people who Williams constantly expressed his gratitude and appreciation for, to the point where he viewed himself as very much a student of their work, rather than an employer.

[@Manticorn]

on the other hand, I'd be mad if I went through shit for this movie and it wasn't even good in the end. I mean at least I would want to be a part of something important.

[@annien.1727]

You're wrong. It was Warner Bros. that screwed it over, NOT Disney.

[@cohenmarioman]

Isn’t Aladdin sort of based off the story of The Lamp from thousands stories of Arabia?

[@the_crafty_vampire855]

When I was younger, my family had A LOT of VHS tapes. I can't remember exactly what movie, but before the movie began, all of these trailers would be played. I distinctly remember seeing a quick trailer of the Miramax version of The Thief and the Cobbler, and for YEARS, I couldn't get those little scenes out of my head because the optical illusions and the red smoke really struck me. Then, about a year ago, I finally saw The Thief and the Cobbler on KZbin. Richard Williams will forever be my #1 favorite animator in history. May he rest in peace.

[@ocpmovie]

While I respect your dedication to and interest in the film, I wish you had spoken to me, or done any real research, before posting such an inaccurate video. I've now seen hundreds of KZbinrs do similar videos about this film, based on basically no research and repeating the same things. Disney had nothing to do with the production, apart from the bad Miramax dub (Arabian Knight) which was an afterthought done well afterward. Richard Williams was a perfectionist with high standards, and a complicated man, but that seems to drive people (even professionals) to just make up some random stories about foolish perfectionism as an cautionary tale, and portray a great animator as a complete buffoon. Your stories about how he fired a billion zillion people because he didn't like the color of something are just that -- stories. Not truths.

[@LyricNear]

Shame this comment got buried :/ I do wish he had done a bit more research. I suppose the big clickbait-y title is hard to resist.

[@Lizzypoohxo]

Glad to find this comment as I saw someone else mention it in another comment.

[@cathare4909]

This was one of the movies i watched over and over again as a kid. I'm ngl the inner dialogue if the thief was my favorite part.

[@chronicallyclaire2279]

The movie of my childhood. To this day my family and I quote this often.

[@DarkHarvest666]

"1992 The year shit went very bad" I... I was born that year... ಥ﹏ಥ

[@ZaraTGgirl]

Fun fact: older Disney movies are just animations of stories from around the world on the public access list. Including Aladdin. Aladdin is based off of old oral stories from 600 CE. And so was The Thief and the Cobbler. And Arabian Nights. They are all the same story passed on from oral stories into written stories that have been shoved into pulic access since the origins are impossible to know.

[@Quailbbu]

Captain obvious

[@ZaraTGgirl]

@@Quailbbu you would think it should be, but alas, most people just can't comprehend the obvious. Like my lack of understanding jokes. Lol

[@CircusPupVT]

I mean- Richard's heart seemed to be in the right, wanting to make a beautiful animated movie with hard work but perhaps his perfectionist made him too cruel. Imagine being a hard working animators, drawing frame by frame, 2 by 2 only for him to literally throw it away and fire you cause the blue wasn't good enough. That's so cruel honestly and maybe Disney stealing it was a taste of his own medicine...

[@TheVizWiz811]

well it was animated on ones, not twos and he would only throw away animation if it looked too old and he needed to keep up with the modern designs or if it interfered with possible funding like the prince bubba scenes which are two scenes, one is a very short shot of the witch all grey in her grey clouds laughing, its random but in context its because prince bubba has turned into a giant frog, the other scene is her using her stethoscope and looking into bubbas eye only to see a sillouette of a woman dancing she then jumps off his leg and says "this is a most difficult spell to lift" she says this because in the 1982 script and in earlier ones from the 60s - 70s (idk I haven't read them) princess mee mee which is princess yum yums sister who you can see in a pencil test form in the recobbled cut believes prince bubba is under a terrible spell and that he isn't a disgusting monster so they go to the witch to lift his spell, in the rare pencil test footage of this scene you can actually see princess yum yum and a old design of tack for a brief second before prince bubba turns into a dragon, he was forced to remove it in order to get funding, I dont know if warner bros asked him to remove it or jake eberts, also he probably didn't fire as much people as its believed and not for reasons like him disliking the colors, I dont know where this anecdote came from but most likely its based off the original shot of king nod telling zigzag about his dream of destruction and death, the background is a lot more red but the animation is basically the same, other than the kings eyes being a lot more red, this was animated on cels so he could just change the background, the only color pallette changes where made by fred calvert and Miramax when they took over

[@tobbs5410]

There's a lot of fucked up shit that you didn't touch upon so here goes. Though Richard Williams did approach Warner Bros. with talks about funding and distributing the movie, the latter were doing their best to take over it and fuck it up from day one. The first thing they demanded was that the characters Princess MeeMee and Prince Bubba get axed, and while you could argue that the story works well enough without them, the characters are charming enough in their own right and MeeMee's cattiness works in good contrast to her sister YumYum (it also explains why there are two Princesses in the bathtub scene!) They kept bringing in song writers without Richard's permission to Disney-fy the entire thing, Richard told them to fuck off and that there was absolutely no need for musical numbers. They also kept dropping subtle hints that they didn't like the idea of silent characters and kept forcing changes to the script, and all hell broke lose when they got wind of Aladdin. At that point they pretty much shortened the deadline, and to make matters worse when Richard presented the entirity of his film to the backers, some fucking twat lost the second reel, meaning that it looked more incomplete and made less sense than it would have done. Even weeks before they pulled the plug Warner Bros begun getting their lawyers and executives to clear people's desks and throw out work, telling animators to 'go on holiday', only for them to return to an empty studio. As Neil Boyle pointed out, if their objective was to just finish the movie, why go through the trouble of hiring song writers and redubbing voices instead of just colouring and animating shit? For fuck's sake. These corporations were literally baying for Richard Williams and his studio's blood long before the deadline. I see a lot of people in the comments bootlicking for Disney and shitting on Richard Williams, but absolutely nothing justifies almost driving a man and his team of animators to suicide after three decades of perfecting their craft and doing their best to deliver a groundbreaking film. You're simping for corporations, who have more money than you or I could ever dream of, powerful entities who have no ethics or shame at all, against a man and his animators who were working in a tiny little cottage in Soho, having to take on odd jobs just to survive, as well as even giving animation classes and lectures to rival studios to help them improve their work and make connections. I'm not going to act like Williams was a perfect person because nobody is, regardless of your ego. But he deserved better than to have Warner Bros and Disney destroy him and die of pancreatic cancer before he could even finish his second feature. On a more positive note however, Richard Williams had the last laugh. In 2013 he screened his own restored workprint in Hollywood, with people such as June Foray and Eric Goldberg attending. He showed this workprint around the world at various festivals, all with positive praise and gradually became more and more open to talking about the movie and answering people's questions. He started working on more short films that recieved critical praise, including Circus Drawings and Prologue (part of another sadly unfinished feature film) and went on to become possibly one of the most loved and respected artists of all time. Harvey Weinstein, one of the men who was responsible for butchering The Thief, is now behind bars with his career in ruins. Poetic justice.

[@gnomewarlord6221]

13:40 "And then with his big. Golden. Balls...." -BionicPig, November 8th, 2021

[@sarafagin3967]

I've loved this movie since I was a kid. The animation is beautiful. I always remember this one particular part where Zigzag is weaving his fingers together with all those rings, mesmerizing. One of the things I'd do if I had a time machine is go back in time and throw money at this project.

[@bobbbbEE]

You can make basically any two movies appear "stolen" if you compare them in this way. The movies are completely different with extremely small circumstantial and cosmetic similarities.

[@Sandstimes]

Exactly, this feels like the lion ling and kimba situation all over again. The experiences of watching these movies are entirely different, they had entirely different goals, and while disney as a company is shit i dont think its fair to undermine the hard work the animators and writers and voice actors and editors did put into aladdin.

[@princessdragonpop6099]

We need a petition to give this movie Justice holy crap this would've been the best thing ever!

[@sarhahillsburg5142]

Wait....YOU MEAN IT'S REAL?!?!? 😭😭😭 I was convinced this was a fever dream omg THANK YOU for bringing this memory back with the name of the movie

[@CarterDeLeo]

This brought back memories of me seeing an ad for this on tv while at my grandparents' and then having a nightmare about Tack that night. I never saw anything about it except for that one time, so I had kind of thought I must have made it up. Thanks for giving it some exposure!

[@tatyanarodriguez1561]

The thief and the cobbler have been one of my favorites for a long time. While I had wished for some improvements on the story, I was happy to get what I had, but to know that it could have actually had the parts I thought were missing and that is the reason it felt incomplete was that it was just that, incomplete. Both infuriate and saddens me to a point so low I never thought possible. Thank you for linking the Recobbled cut. I plan to reintroduce myself to this already beautiful story as to how it should have been.

[@TheVizWiz811]

well the story was supposed to be longer with a lot more filler to flesh everything out but it got cut down more and more reportedly whenever it was nasrudin 3 hours where made and there where probably supposed to be more but we cant trust the source since the guy who said that, howard blake, also claims to be the one who created tack even though that's untrue