Alan: The reality of living with a Heat Pump

[@markwatson2967]

Rare, but so pleasing, to see another lady on the tools. And talking about houseboats, too. Heat pumps (solar and batteries) cats and canal boats are my fav. Lovely to see the facts from an actual customer laid bare. Notch up another win for Octopus Energy and heat pumps.

[@philipbroggio9315]

I had my @octopusenergy heat pump installed in 2022 and would echo many of the comments in this video. Coupling an ASHP with solar panels, EV and Intelligent Octopus Go has reduced our bills significantly. Now paying same as pre Energy crisis power bill plus powering the car.

[@Biggest-hz7ng]

It's the solar, batteries and tariff that are likely to be making his heating significantly cheaper than gas. The heat pump itself is probably comparable in cost to gas. Edit: I meant to make the point that the heat pump is able to reduce its cost because it can take advantage of batteries and time of use tariffs, whereas a gas boiler can't.

[@mikeypc3592]

The point is you have those options with a heat pump to reduce costs. With gas, you don't as you can't generate your own gas.

[@Biggest-hz7ng]

@@mikeypc3592 Yes, there are more options to reduce cost with heat pumps and electricity (than gas), I should have been more explicit in my message!

[@JustinUK]

Do you find you get water hammer noises from the tank pipes when heating up the cylinder using a Eddi immersion to 60 degrees and you turn water on.

[@tonymac7706]

Had one installed, wrecked my house with all the ugly pipe work, and cheep in the summer because no heat needed, I have solar panels 3.6kw (great when the sun is shining), overall very expensive in the winter to run and keeps freezing up at the back of the unit, get no sun in the winter so that doesn't help, and when it's cold it uses 8 kw of electricity to run, so work it out for yourselves what it costs...I should have kept my coal fire with back boiler😊😊😊

[@OctopusEnergy]

Hey Tony, when properly installed, heat pumps use 4x less energy than even the most efficient boilers to generate the same amount of heat. They can work in nearly all homes. As a general rule, if your house is below 200 metres squared, was built after the 1930’s and is well insulated, it should be a good fit for an Octopus heat pump. octopus.energy/heat-pump-FAQ/ 🐙⚡

[@Biggest-hz7ng]

Also, 8kW is the presumably the heat output, with the electricity power input being at most 2.5kW?

[@tonymac7706]

Had nothing but trouble when first installed, I wouldn't say teething problems , both pumps needed replacing as they were full of soldering gunk, it was a mess from start to finish, settings were not right and I still think they need tweaking and through out the winter the heat pump was cycling 3 or 4 times a day for 30 to 40 minutes at a time even when the water in the tank hadn't been ran and the heating off, each time it cycled the electricity being used was 5kw per hour, that's not good when it's not heating the radiators.

[@snecklifter]

@@tonymac7706 Sounds like a cowboy install, sorry to hear. Its a technology that works all over the world so would recommend getting a certified professional to rectify your setup.

[@NicholasStreet]

I’d like to know how efficient these heat pumps are in temperatures between zero and five degrees, a common winter temperature range and the ideal temperature for ice to form on the evaporator. Once I’ve starts forming, energy will be wasted in defrosting the evaporator, massively reducing the COP.

[@BenIsInSweden]

5C is where the stated drop happens the most. But you have to factor in that in the UK they arent going to be running at max capacity at 0-5C as the design temperature for a UK home is typically between -2c and -7c. If the design temperature was in that frosting sweet spot then it would be more of an issue. But you'd need to go nearer the equator for that.

[@NicholasStreet]

@@BenIsInSweden I think you’re saying that because the system is sized for an outside temperature of-2 to -7, it will be able to cope easily at 0 to +5. But I’m asking, what is the COP in evaporator freezing conditions, which are very common in the UK. I’ve often heard that “they work fine in Scandinavia where it’s much colder” but they won’t have the issue with freezing conditions that we do in the UK, since winter temperatures are usually below zero so you won’t have the problem of moisture condensing and then freezing on the evaporator. I can just envision a typical cold, foggy January day when there’s virtually no wind or solar and the grid will not be able to cope with everyone’s heat pump trying to defrost itself.

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@NicholasStreet There is definitely moisture freezing on the evaporator over here. Mine will do a regular defrost (about once an hour) even when it is -20C outside. To defrost a heat pump runs in reverse, so whilst they use more electricity during the defrost, they aren't all going to be doing it at the same time. And even if they were it would be like the grid failing because everyone is trying to make a cup of tea at 4pm. We also get the typical UK weather on the fringe months, so we're not totally immune to the same conditions. The COP drop will vary but it is considered when quoting the SCOP - which is essentially Annual Heat Output divided by Annual Electricity usage.

[@Angel-xq9yz]

Can you do a video in winter , When tempature under 5

[@OctopusEnergy]

We sure can! Heat pumps are the norm in Scandinavia where temps can get as low as -20°C which is much more chilly than here in the UK - and they're still more efficient than a gas boiler.

[@CB27]

​@@OctopusEnergy more efficient they might be if all you're looking at is kWh consumed, but if electricity is 3 times the price of gas per kWh, it would have to be more than 3x more efficient to cost less. No?

[@snecklifter]

@@CB27 Correct and they are more than 3 times as efficient. They can be over 5 times as efficient with decent design, insulation etc. And this doesn't even take cheap nighttime tarriffs, solar or battery usage into account.

[@Angel-xq9yz]

Any temp below 5 , Expensive to run

[@snecklifter]

Will be the same as a gas boiler when installed correctly. If you have or are able to get solar and/or a battery then will save money over gas.

[@Matthewwarren29]

My cousin had one fitted, they are not cheaper! In the winter it has to work so hard that his bills are ridiculous!

[@OctopusEnergy]

Hi Matthew, heat pumps work great, even in sub-zero temps ❄️ but all heat systems have to work harder when it’s colder. Here are some heat pump tips for your cousin 👉 octopus.energy/blog/hot-tips-for-running-your-heat-pump-this-winter/

[@lawole4]

It may be cheap now but wait a couple of years when we’ve all joined and watch as it quadruples.

[@Angel-xq9yz]

More experience to run and more expensive to insurance, More expensive service, Very expensive to buy as a effective system.

[@OctopusEnergy]

Hey there, we're installing heat pumps from £500 with the govt grant. Our home survey will give the full picture of what individual properties need to be ready for an installation. Heat pumps 4x the efficiency of a gas boiler and when paired with our super smart Cosy tariff, save an average of £220 per annum. Also, if you ditch gas and go 100% electric, you could save an additional £115 a year by avoiding gas standing charges. Lots more info here: octopus.energy/blog/heat-pump-running-cost-july23/ Also, a heat pump can last 20 years - about twice as long as a boiler - and they need less maintenance. Our installations include a 5-year warranty for your heat pump and you can find out more about our service plans here: octopus.energy/heat-pump-service-plans/ 🐙⚡

[@paulmatthews9366]

Sounds great. I'll just hunt down the sofa for the 20k capital cost of doing it all.

[@sirjohng1]

Better warmth? What on earth is better warmth? Could never control gas heating? Absurd. The gas system of distribution is a miracle of safe engineering and rarely breaks down. No mention of the massive cost of installation which has to be paid for before these 'savings' can be realised? No mention of the large cupboard required for the installation somewhere in the home, bigger radiators, extra insulation (which could easily be done for your current gas system at the same cost), large fan buzzing away 24/7 and the electricity required to assist heating the hot water and, at times, the Central Heating. This system requires there to be no draughts to reach the magic percent efficiency, opening a window or door or trickle vent for fresh air immediately reduces the efficiency and takes some while to restore it so watch out for mould particularly in bathrooms if unvented. And remember, you, the Taxpayers, are paying huge £subsidies for these installations, every one of you. It is a con on the grand scale just like EV's.

[@BenIsInSweden]

It refers to having the heat replenished at the same rate it is lost, is far more comfortable than the way the majority of gas boilers are set up in the UK where its thermostat controlled and cycles on and off. Can be done with Gas, but given that the majority of gas boilers are oversized in the UK, it will not be able to do it effectively as typically would be below it's modulation ratio. You're also quoting outdated info. Any properly installed heat pump doesn't need resitive assistance in heating the hotwater nor central heating, if it did, then it was installed wrong. Some may require an immersion for an anti-legionella cycle, but any of the R290 ones going in do not. And for those that are R32, the immersion only kicks in for raising the temperature from the maximum the heat pump can do on it's own (typically around 55C), up to the temperature required for Anti-legionella. Which typically only would be done once a week. The comment about opening a window, door or trickle vent reduces the efficiency and taking a while to restore does show how little you understand heat loss. As for the comment about taxpayers, did you have an issue with any of the other schemes? You know, like the one for changing over to condensing boilers.

[@sirjohng1]

@@BenIsInSwedenOk, thanks, so a gas system cannot be run at 50C with increased insulation and bigger radiators and the boiler gas pressure lowered to suit? 25 years ago I installed a Danfoss controlled gas fired system with outside temperatures measurement, boiler in/ out thermostats, rad stats and constant when required which was super efficient in a well insulated new small office complex. As for "I don't know how heat works" if you open an aperture in your home the area it serves will immediately start to transfer heat to cold thus reducing the temperature in THAT AREA. Your system relies on constant temperature throughout the building and will, therefore, not respond in a short period to top up the area loss. Ultimately of course it will balance out but not at the efficiency level you want to achieve until that point occurs. You must have had a very poor gas based system that could not be improved considerably at much less cost without ripping it out and having your heat pump installed. You will make savings which will pay off your capital expenditure here, saving any Government subsidy you received, and only then after a good many years feel the benefit of the cheaper running cost day to day. The average 'stay' in a mortgaged home is currently 8 years so anyone tempted to go through this major change to their home should factor this in. And, all those who currently have gas heating have been shafted by Government, gas and electric power producers and the 24% Renewables tax to artificially make your system available at a reasonable cost. Remember, air source heat pumps have been available for decades and only now and for Net Zero has the cost been altered artificially to make them more affordable. Watch when the balance between heat pump owning and gas brings the Government tax take from gas down so much that your costs will take the brunt. We have witnessed this in the EV market in real time over the last ten years and it is cheaper now to run ICE VEHICLES than electric and far more convenient. Great to discuss.

[@BenIsInSweden]

​@@sirjohng1You're missing the point. a gas boiler to provide the same level of constant comfort would need to run at between 25C and 40C during the coldest temperatures (depending on insulation etc). 50C as a general requirement is going to be far too hot to be on constantly. Yes there is some reduction in the temperature in the area, but it's insignificant compared to the thermal mass of the house.​ You're talking about an overall temperature swing of a fraction of a degree, which is nothing compared to the temperature swings in a regular on-off thermostat-controlled house. Also you might want to look how gas has been subsidised with tax payers money for decades. Not sure where your figures are for it being cheaper to run an ICE vehicle over an EV, maybe if only using rapid chargers rather than charging at home, but certainly not with Octopus Go's availability etc.

[@JimNewstead]

It costs me at most 7pence per KWh to charge my car. Most of the time it’s free from our own solar generated LX. And I’m not contributing excessive amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere. Isn’t that what it’s really about? I still can’t understand why most people are genuinely not terrified of climate change and doing everything in their power to reduce their impact on it.

[@waynecartwright-js8tw]

@@sirjohng1 I find your comment on the cost to run EVs hilarious. I pay 7.5p a kwh for 6 hours a day a from the UKs biggest Electricity supplier Octopus energy.

[@montdewallydehonk.395]

What a creep.