Alarm System Store - All about resistors

[@amiramark]

I enjoy your presentations, you are getting better with every presentation. Your nervousness is going away the more you talk. Keep it up!

[@jdeanh75144]

Thank you so much. I was studying for my licensing exam and was looking at different loop types and saw diagrams for EOL resistors....i was so confused because it seemed backwards from anything i had seen residentially, i had never once seen resistors at the sensors but always in the panel. This sent me on a tangent to research how its actually supposed to be done. My business partner didnt even believe me when i explained it to him until i showed him your video which perfectly demonstrates why the resistor should be placed at the sensor. Thanks so much good work!!!!

[@josef.torrealba6992]

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[@devashishchurendra4465]

Very good explanation.. Thanks

[@gregfaris6959]

Interestingly, a typical door sensor is considered a “normally open” relay device, as it needs to be energized to close. This can be confusing, because a door or window, at least from an alarm installer’s point of view is usually closed, and “open” is an abnormal condition. This is an academic issue, of little interest EXCEPT when it comes to ordering parts. If you have a choice between N/o and N/C, you have to remember the classic reed door or window is Normally Open.

[@AlarmSystemStore]

I agree, it can be confusing. You just have to remember they are named for their natural state, not their energized state.

[@pilotguy13]

Great video. you guys MUST STOP the beeping in the background on your vids though. Thx.

[@aktarchowdhury3892]

Very good info, I was looking for risistor in pir & got this from your video. Thank

[@AlarmSystemStore]

Awesome! We're glad you got some value from this video. Thanks for watching!

[@uceprimeroa893]

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[@ericweiner618]

I believe there should be come clarification as to why today's panels require end of line (eol) resistors. Older panels only measured voltage across the zone loop. Older panels sent 6 VDC across the zone loop, and of course newer panels send 12 VDC across the loop. What Jason didn't say that with the use of eol resistors, instead of voltage being monitored across the loop, now actual loop current is being monitored. This allows for more information to be sent back to the panel. A trouble condition can be observed on the panel if zone wiring opens, with a resultant no-current condition across the loop. Or if there is a condition where the zone (eol resistor) is shorted, then full loop current is sent back to the panel and the panel trips if it is armed or alerts the subscriber to a fault in that particular zone. This is just a use of Ohm's law (V=IR).

[@LifeOnHoth]

I gotta say it. I haven't verified it, but if you say so: There might have been panels that use 6V at some point, but that's totally irrelevant when it comes to EOL setups. In fact, the most versatile systems on the market now in 2020 allows you to define freely exactly what resistance value you want to use for this or that condition in the loop - not per panel, not per set of input boards, but each individual input. This is also irrelevant, because there is a couple of rules you gotta follow as an installer: 1. Always use the same value EOL resistors on the entire system. OK, if you are replacing a panel and keeping the detectors, and it is a large mall, where you have 1000 stores which has at one point in time been consolidated into one large system, and there are different sets of EOLs out there - by all means, leave it as is if it works. But generally - ALWAYS use the same value - it will make it so much easier on your head and the guy coming there after you. 2. Never really consider not using EOL. What the guy in the video says - it's an installation aid. But this is simply too thin. I have worked with this just long enough to see people at school read all the wrong books, and went to school where electronics teachers have also read all the wrong books and knows nothing about security systems - which will tell you nothing about EOL. It will however tell you that a detector requires 2 loops plus power. One alarm loop and one tamper loop. This is taught *today* ! You use dual EOL based loop for two reason. The first and most important reason is tamperproofing the loop. If using a single EOL resistor or no EOL resistor at all, it is simply not a security system - it is a toy. I'm not kidding, I'm being serious - it is a TOY without dual EOL resistors. You can have the panel measure shorts in the loop, open loops, tampers, alarms. The other reason is for diagnose. Yes - it will easily make it 100x easier on you when tracing down a fault. Bonus: "Zone doubling". Nope. You don't do that at all. I mean you can, but you don't do that. The resons for the guy in the video not explaining this concept is becuase (based on how he talks about it) have no idea how it acually need to work, what you sacrifice when doing it etc. The guy says you wire the sensors in paralell. Yes... how? Well, obviously you run the power in paralell :D. But how do u want to do this with a PIR detectors (or any other detector that actually have a tamper switch in it in addition to the alarm relay)? You can't do that with dual EOL setup. The fact is you need to use an odd combination of wiring it the loop in paralell and series. So you don't do "zone doubling". U just don't. There are detectors today that will allow you to configure them easily in a chain of several and still the loop as a whole has the properties of dual EOL loop. But you don't do that either except if you REALLY REALLY need to, and that almost takes an earthquake and doomsday. I can't explain it clearly in text - I would need to sit down and draw the circuit with you to get it across clearly. Consider this: What happens when you paralell two resistors? What happens when you wire them in series? The concept of zone doubling simply does not work, and that's why he has trouble explaining it, and he is right - never do that. One input per detector. The concept has its place and practical use, but not in a security system. I bet you could find some use for it in automation etc, but you usually do things a whole lot different when we move into that (automation). There are amateurs, and there are pros on this. And all in between. I've worked with people who thought they could have the profession who had absolutely no understanding of electronics. They thought wiring and designing a security system is like wiring up your hifi speakers. Some guys should not be allowed near a security system install job. If you want to be professional with this, you gotta consider everything, and know 100% what you are doing both when it comes to security concepts and electronics. Don't get me started on wireless systems btw. :D.

[@randomdude1053]

@@LifeOnHoth what’s wrong with wireless assuming it’s encrypted?

[@LifeOnHoth]

@@randomdude1053 A lot, or not so much depending on your need on security level. . To be short. Encryption doesn't really matter a lot. It matters some. But not a lot. There are so many other ways you can modify how a system functions than actually reading the radio signals in clear text. Sometimes there are back doors also. I don't want to spend a ton of time going in detail, but everything with a radio in it can be compromised today, either it compromise the function of the system by being poorly designed, or it compromize the safety of your personal data by leaking it to everyone who has a backdoor into the system. This happens. It's not just a thought up scenario. Everything radio (which is wireless) presumably require a battery. This is impractical. A wireless system, unless you move to z-wave or other open standards, will lock you in to one provider / brand. Which is a bad thing. A system that you can make to interface to whatever, because the concepts are simple is always best. There are tons of ways to compromize all systems - wired or wireless. There's nothing wrong with wireless if u can accept all the cons about it. But when it comes to wired, it usually is a bit more about it being a proper installed system than the system itself being volnurable. A properly instlaled security system is extremely hard to beat. Unless your monitoring company react to a tamper alarm (for example radio jamming) exactly the same way they react to a message received that there is an alarm, all u need is to jam a system long enough to do the deed. So, wireless might be fine. Or it may be totally unaccaptable.

[@drumbyte]

Great presentation!

[@RobertStarks-vj5ut]

Where does the end of line (EOL) resistor go? The EOL resistor should always be installed at the last device and never inside the control panel. Placing resistors anywhere other than the end of line does nothing to supervise the wiring, which is the reason for using the resistors. The only exception to a resistor ever being in a panel is in a 4 wire with the resistor at the end of the return pair, in the panel. It supervises the entire cable, both pairs that way!

[@sukinator9699]

Good stuff. Thank you

[@mattlove4430]

Somebody take care of that trouble.

[@AlarmSystemStore]

Ha, we have a room full of troubles in the demo room. Most of the systems don't have sirens or phone lines so there's always a beeping pad.

[@mattlove4430]

@@AlarmSystemStore I have nightmares about that beep lmao

[@SandoTrini]

Very good effort. Very helpful.

[@qiangzheng821]

Super helpful information, thank you

[@bignedu4871]

This is very nice. Thank you.

[@jamesodell4453]

Great video!

[@williamirizarry1113]

Thank you

[@AlarmSystemStore]

No problem! Thanks for watching.

[@heelquiktij6103]

Hello, would it be helpful if you put an end of line resistor wirelessly? This is for example if you connect a wired door contact (special NC signal door strike) through a WS4945 wirelessly and NOT wired directly to the panel???

[@afficial83]

good stuff, very informative. could you do zone doubling the way you describe with dsc boards like powerseries?

[@andybowman9697]

+afficial83 No, DSC doesn't support zone doubling.

[@PeaceThroughDeceit]

Andy Bowman Does DMP support zone doubling? I mean, I know honeywell does but does DMP?

[@andybowman9697]

I've no idea on DMP. Never used it before.

[@Justify4935]

I love DMP. I wish the company I work for now had it.

[@LifeOnHoth]

Probably he couldn't, because that's not how it works in 99% of the cases...

[@Rajesh_Singh301]

Can someone give me an idea of the amount of current flowing through the loop in a typical system with the 5.6 kohms EOL resistor in place?

[@benkihada]

Let me get this straight. On reed switch an NO or NC is defined when the magnet is not attached ? So an NO = loop open when the magnet is away (i.e. door open)and it closes when magnet is in contact (door closes) ? I get conflicting answers. Thank you

[@andybowman9697]

Switches are defined by their natural state, as in is the switch open without a magnet and only closes once a magnet is within range? If so this is a NO switch. We typically use such a switch in a NC application though, like a door or window.

[@benkihada]

Andy Bowman thanks, I think this is where I got confused as I am wiring my vista20p eol, I am about to wire my eol on my vista20p, my switch are NO, should I wire my eol in series then as I will use it on my door? Right now they are in parallel not powered yet.

[@andybowman9697]

Yes, NO switches used on doors or windows need to be wired in series. If you were to put them in parallel the zone would only fault if all doors on the zone were opened at the same time rather than any single one.

[@benkihada]

Andy Bowman thank you!

[@Anhad1313]

👍

[@Justify4935]

That second to last example was just weird. I've worked residential and commercial and never saw 2 resistors used on one contact. That just takes forever.

[@andybowman9697]

I've never seen it employed either, but it is an option in some panels. May be used more often in UL installs. I've rarely encountered single EOL used properly. Generally always see them installed in the panel.

[@Justify4935]

I mean not to brag, but I've worked institutional, government, industrial, commercial, small biz, residential and I have never seen that employed. It seems overkill to me. My company I worked for used supervised at EOL, but ya def see them mostly at the panel. Some panels are wired without resistors now. It is what it is.

[@Pitbike_Ginge]

@@Justify4935 common practice here in the uk for example a honeywelll galaxy alarm uses 1k1 so a contact would be 1k1 closed and 2k open 2 resitors

[@brentkane25]

Infi-nit. Not In-finit. Otherwise a decent primer on resistors.

[@kevc3148]

This may be the most awkward video ive ever seen....

[@TiberiusStorm]

That may be true but it's actually a really informative video for beginners.

[@Kombativ]

Ye he’s looks socially awkward lol

[@jeffmoss26]

Great video!!