10mm Underwood Hardcast vs Xtreme Penetrators for Bears

[@octopussmasher2694]

I’m glad someone is answering these questions. I never find projectile comparisons always caliber comparisons.

[@octopussmasher2694]

Thanks for the heart man

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you. Please share... the caliber comparison videos do really well. I'm hoping this one will too as I've got it planned for .45-70 and 9mm

[@octopussmasher2694]

@@AlaskanBallistics I will, have you a good one

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You have good one too sir! Godspeed to you and yours. Thank You

[@jstsmegy]

Yeah this was a good one

[@Scientist_Salarian]

Your 10mm tests are always honest and straightforward. There are a frustratingly large number of 10mm tests where the host will say something like, “Well, I couldn’t find any Xtreme Penetrator, so we’ll be testing the Underwood Hardcast against some Winchester 180 gr. FMJ”. That’s why real-world 10mm comparisons are so tough to come by. Thanks for doing good work!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you for your viewing and kind comment. Fortunately i saved up a lot of ammo for videos last year

[@HoffnerPrecision]

Agreed. Tired of seeing comparison videos that just irritate me with apples to oranges scenarios. What a waste of my time. On the other hand, I generally feel like your videos are worth more than the price of admission. Well done.

[@mitchellnelms7572]

I'd feel safe with either round. The penetrators are very impressive in that barrel. They go through everything I've seen them tested on, llla soft armor and bulletproof glass included.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Agreed

[@tomjones7285]

I like the extreme penetrater round. Ive seen go threw almost every thing i all the videos. Plus you get to shot stuff with a giant Phillips head screw driver so its a bonus as a wrench head.

[@Larryw-o2k]

Let's think a tad there genius they gonna show failures or just success while advertising

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@Larryw-o2kWhos the"they” you are referring to?

[@johnhart2861]

This was a comparison I’ve been waiting for since forever

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Sweet. I've got a video on .460 Rowland and .44 magnum as well. Plan on doing this series with .480 ruger and .45-70 and possibly .458 socom

[@jayb2344]

Glad someone used their specialty ammo and not me lol. Definitely saving mine for a rainy day. With that being said thanks for your Finds! With that being said I had done a test of my own with the Xtreme penetrator chambered in 450BM and that’s not a round you want to be on the receiving end of. I had tested the round 150-200 yards for the best results and what I discovered is that it would penetrate a railroad tie, a piece of standard pressure treated board, and bust a cinder block behind all of it. So in disbelief I naturally had to put a few more rounds down range to confirm my findings which in fact confirmed prior results. Needless to say it’s a monster of a design and depending on the platform you are using the results are most definitely achieved

[@steverichard8196]

After 55 years of poking holes in Alaska's big game, I place "energy" numbers in my least important pile. I trust bullet construction, placement, impact velocity and penetration more.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Agreed. Energy numbers are an intellectual exercise at best.

[@cpprcrk1833]

I know it's probably impossible to do in today's world of ammo shortages , but I'd love to see the 3 big dogs ( Buffalo Bore , Underwood and Double Tap ) in the full load hard cast world , go head to head on your set up ! Luv your channel and there usable info you're putting out . GBO !

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yeah if i can find the double tap I'll try to make that work

[@robertpatter5509]

Buffalo Bore (180gr JHP)and Underwood ( 135/180/200 JHP)are in stock. Double Tap seems to never be in stock.

[@kennethrisner8648]

Good video brother. I'm 63 years old and been shooting normal things like 22's and shotguns on and off my whole life. I've owned and sold some bigger rifles but never shot them enough to become good with them. My edc is a bigger Taurus g3 and I'm just good enough with it inside of self defense out to 10 yards but beyond that I there's alot of room for improvement. The point I wish to make is that most of the handgun ballistic knowledge I have is what I've seen on countless other you tube videos. I've seem many different shooters use the same round and same sort of targets and get different results. One example was when a guy was running a 9mm handgun comparing the hard cast, extreme penetrators, and average range fmj through gel. Surprisingly the extreme penetrator penetrated the least of the 3, the fmj came ins second and the hard cast did the best. However they were all close, meaning they were in a few inches of each other. In another video which I watched just earlier theu guy was shooting a 10mm with a, I think a 5 inch barrel, and I can't remember the grainage on the bullets, the medium was sheets of steel, and the rounds were extreme penetrator, hard cast, and run of the mill fmj. The fmj went the least through the first sheet stopping on the second, the hard cast came in second going through 2 sheets stopping on the third, and the extreme penetrator the best going through 3 and actually the bullet became lodged in the 4th opening up the back of it. I think bullet design has alot to do with it. On yet another video I saw where a flat nosed 380 fmj easily out penetrated 9mm 115 gr round nose fmj. Even those with little knowledge knows a 9mm is a step above a 380 in power and should out do it but not always. One thing a round nose fmj bullet tends to do on occasion is to exit the side of a gel block. The same channel then pitted a 380 flat nose fmj round against a 9mm flat nose round, I think it was a 147 gr fmj and this time the 9mm easily won going through 2, I think they were 20 inch gel blocks and kept on going, The bullets were never recovered with the 380 making it half way through the second block. Judging from what I've seen on here with the difference in performance between the hard cast, the extreme penetrator, and normal fmj FLAT nose being so close one would be just as well off using an average flat nose fmj round as opposed to the others for much less expense. And another thing i've seen on alot of videos is that one must pay close attention when selecting any 10 mm round because alot of them seem to be woefully underloaded from the factory getting fairly pitiful chronograph readings barely being equal to an average 40 cal round. Then again I will try not too put myself in a situation where I have to worry about bear lol

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thanks for watching and the comment. I did read it all. I could be in a bear defense situation in my yard. Godspeed and good hunting!

[@curtis6554]

we don't have the type of bear here where I live as you do but we do have black bear . In the woods I carry a 10mm 1911 loaded with underwood 200 grn hard cast and feel quite comfortable . great video

[@AlaskanBallistics]

That's a great choice. Godspeed and good hunting

[@davidberry6046]

At one time, I had a 10mm. Wasn't particularly impressed with penetration, loaded warm with 200 gr. SWC hard cast handloads, but it was very accurate. I tested my Super Blackhawk with 7 1/2" bbl. and my 4" Blackhawk in .357 mag. with Buffalo Bore hard cast lead loads, and the 10mm just couldn't keep up. The real surprise was the Buffalo Bore 180 gr. SWCGC at 1437 fps out of the Ruger .357. That load penetrated all out of proportion to what I expected. It's a combination of weight heavy for caliber, high sectional density, high velocity and projectile construction. I didn't use ballistic gel, as it was not available at that time (years ago) but I used wood as a medium, and the BB .44 mag load was close in penetration to the .357, but was hard-pressed to do better. The 10mm wasn't even close to either. I've put a few years on since then (I'm 75) and don't go hunting anymore, but if I did, I wouldn't feel undergunned in the presence of a grizzly or black bear (we have both here in Wyoming) with either revolver. Maybe the newer 10mm loads are better, but I'll leave that decision for someone like yourself, who has had much more experience with the 10mm than I. God bless America!

[@b3fitco626]

David, I've watched penetration tests of 10mm and 44mag ball. The 10mm penetrated wayyy further. It penetrates better than almost every other caliber I've seen. And Underwood's 220gr 10mm hardcast is 1300fps. Ball goes through 68" of gel so I can't imagine what modern heavy loads of it will do

[@wyoelkhunter15]

Hi David. I live in the Cody area of Wyoming. Having grizzlies in the area, and quite a bit of them tbh, I had to make a choice between my .357 or nothing. I just picked up a Glock 20 10mm and I will say, in comparison to handloads for both of them, the 10mm will squash my .357 in penetration with 180gr. hard cast out of both. Plus, the G20 is lighter, easier to maneuver, and has higher capacity. Different strokes for different folks.

[@Wildwestwrangler]

I've seen a 200gr 10mm hardcast enter the skull of a Russian hybrid boar that weighed over 400lbs and blow through bone and muscle to rest behind the hip joint after going through it!!! I figure it'll do just fine on a grizzly!!! Just need it to get into the brain or break the spine!!! No amount of adrenaline can overcome either of those two shots!!!

[@taofledermaus]

Great test! What miserable conditions to film in!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Not that bad, it's the lack of light more than anything

[@mitchellnelms7572]

We're spoiled in CA, we had 80 degree weather into November.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Too hot for me.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

He's an awesome guy and channel.

[@mitchellnelms7572]

@James_wingthwong_ Banks my good friend got stationed in Alaska, his most memorable moment was taking a crap under the northern lights. We infantrymen are a little simple.

[@patrickhenryjolly]

Thank you for pointing me to this video. I spend time in rural SE Virginia, occassionally coming across a black bear on the property. At the moment my main carry is a Hellcar Pro 9mm, but when i go into the woods, i carry a S&W 40c. Thats what i have, so its what i carry. I will test it and keep it full of hard cast. Thank you again!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

No problem. I think you'll be fairly impressed with our .40s&w vs. 10mm hardcast video too.

[@jpg_sig10]

I've function tested several different bear defense loads through my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6", all with great results: Underwood Ammo 1. 220 Gr FN HCL, 100 rounds 2. 200 Gr FN HCL, 120 rounds 3. 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator, 40 rounds 4. Buffalo Bore 220 Gr FN HCL, 20 rounds 5. Steinel Ammo 220 Gr FN HCL, 20 rounds I've personally found the UA 200 Gr FN HCL round to be the most accurate, out to 25 yards. In terms of penetration, the only one I've tested was also the UA 200 Gr FN HCL round. It first penetrated straight through one, and then later two, anchored 4x4 beams of pressure treated lumber (7"), and continued on to be lost into a dirt hill backstop. These two test rounds were not recovered. Unfortunately, I didn't have access to a chronograph to speed test any of these loads. UA 200 Gr FN HCL is my primary wilderness trail biking / hiking / camping large critter self-defense load here in southern Arizona (for black bears, etc.), backed up by UA 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrators, and then UA 200 Gr (Hornady) XTP JHPs. Good things! 👍

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Glad yours worked well

[@JohnKamer]

I have both plus the Underwood 220 Hardcasts for my Glock G40. To be honest, I would feel fairly safe with any of the three rounds loaded. Great video!!! Thanks man!

[@MTNMT265]

Have you done any penetration tests with the 220 grain vs the Xtreme penetrators?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@MTNMT265 I've not. But I've done 220gr vs .357 180gr buffalo bore. Maybe that video will help? kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKeoZKaFh5V6f7Msi=jn0t1dX6g-j5lE2H

[@steveholt3089]

900 ft-lb 10mm is insane yet also amazing

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yes it is

[@AlaskanBallistics]

That would be fun

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You know I have a 9" lone Wolf barrel video out

[@danoneill2846]

old school = hard cast Many Thanks !!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

They'll both work

[@michaelhodges8312]

I’ve been really happy using Underwood 200 XTP for hunting and their 200 HC for bear defense in my G40 with Alpha Wolf barrel. Great video!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Good choices

[@Larryw-o2k]

Yes sir bet you have defended your self from dozens of them mean old animals on that there tellyvision why I bet you got scared though messed them britches didn't ya gotta keep them bear rounds handy though never know when one's gonna break into your mommas basement where you live and steal all your tater chips and soda water might even get some of that candy ya keep back for emergency gotta watch them moving pictures show could be deadly

[@hfsoutdoors8581]

Im glad you turned me onto kkm barrel I got the 6.5 inch with comp, and the ndz 22 pound recoil spring to shoot the 200gr and the 220gr hardcast. I must say I'm one happy camper thnks very much.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Sweet man. Glad it's working well. Be careful of rust on the stainless steel guide rod. Creeps up on you

[@hfsoutdoors8581]

@@AlaskanBallistics thnks, will do.

[@watcher01a17]

Extreme Penetrators for the win. Man I love those things. 💪

[@Larryw-o2k]

Yes sir that generator will go through a lot zips right through leaving a hole then again that solid don't zip through as well but it leaves a cavern as it does now if I had to choose to get shot with one which a hole going through or cavern taking a bunch with it let me see duh I believe neather thank you

[@tigerman3]

Chuck, I absolutely love your presentations--especially with my favorite 10mm, Glock Model 40 with the KKM barrel.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thanks brother. I've got a lot of videos coming up with the 9" barrel in the g40

[@michaelblankenship7278]

This has got to be my second time watching this video, and realize I need a G40 too in my life.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

There's a lonely g40 out there thinking of you too

[@the_watcher_abc]

Your efforts are appreciated, nice work. To answer your question a porcelain tile backed by a 2x6 would be a better proximity of a brown bears skull.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you kindly!

[@johnparrish9215]

I use Ceramic Floor Tiles to simulate bone, I glue them together to represent larger bones and it does help keep the pieces together.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Good idea... I'll look into it

[@AlaskanBallistics]

And thank you!!!

[@jamespugh]

Sound like a cool idea. With gel behind or something

[@HopeProphecy]

Would you recommend changing out the stock barrel on the G20 in order to shoot hard cast (200-230 grain)? My main use would be hiking in Griz country (Glacier National Park).

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yep kkm. Also titanium or tungsten guide rod 20-22#

[@mghegotagun]

@@AlaskanBallistics Quite a bit of conflicting information I've gathered to sort through. -In asking around the scientific minds of reddit, it seems like most still swear by 200-220 grain hard cast. -This test may not be the best representation of bear medium, though the extreme penetrator pulled ahead slightly in it. -10% ballistics gel tests put extreme penetrator at ~26"s of penetration vs hardcast's 50"+ -I believe the penetrator is engineered for more drag in flesh/fat? -Extreme penetrator uses fluid transfer physics in the bullet, which apparently creates larger wound cavities around twice its size, possibly doing enough damage to nearby vital soft tissue for a kill such as the brain or heart without a direct hit? Can you make sense of all this? What is truly the 10mm anti-bear load to rule them all?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I'm actually very a mix of hardcast and xtreme penetrators. I've not shot s grizzly with a 10mm but I have with the ballistically similar .45 super. 200gr hardcast swc went straight through the brain and i found the bullet in the shoulder. It made him quit twitching. I mainly carry .45 super now

[@edwardflint622]

Just get Springfield xdm. Is ready to go out the box

[@AlaskanBallistics]

If the sights don't fall off along with their numerous other problems

[@TUManUtdFN]

UW just had a sale today… load of research came across this vid and ordered the 140gr xtp…. Thanks!!!!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Awesome, wish I could order online in Alaska!

[@sparky_-mf2cs]

Good to know these copper bullets work. I finally gave into the 10mm for woods carry and a sidearm for hunting season. Its goin to be hard leaving my revolver at home this upcoming deer season.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@@sparky_-mf2cs carry them both. I often do

[@sparky_-mf2cs]

@@AlaskanBallistics the reason i went 10mm (G29) was to shed some weight for them long hikes. But having both on me would be nice .

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@@sparky_-mf2cs I've carried both 15 miles many times.

[@aceiyaoyas]

Thanks for the demonstration and info, greatly appreciated!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You're welcome. Thank you for watching. Godspeed and good hunting to you and yours

[@paulhomsy2751]

Another great test !! Very informative and to the point as usual. Great work Chuck.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you Paul

[@barrykramer9125]

Great video thanks for the link on the 10mm you keep making great video's and I will keep watching

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you kindly

[@sonnygunz9207]

I’ve been waiting for this one!!! Both rounds will kill a big Texas hog. Love 10mil!!!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Sweet thanks. Please share the video

[@Shooter-1924]

Sonny, I can’t speak to these two loads, but Underwood’s 200gr XTP in 10mm definitely will. I’m sure these would do great too.

[@InSightFreedom]

Impressive speeds on both projectiles.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yeah that barrel helps

[@ArmamentAxes]

my thoughts also brother

[@guardianminifarm8005]

If the hardcast is significantly less expensive, it definitely the favored choice. If not, which ever is available.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

12 to 18 bucks less... There is a reason I have a lot more of it in my stocking ammo

[@vashmatrix5769]

I agree. To bad the xtreme smashed so flat or I think it would have gone ever further. Great comparison.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yeah they're going to smash against something hard

[@chadwallace3598]

I like that they smash a little bit. That way they’re dumping some energy and penetrating. Win win

[@theoriginalOSOK]

Well, I love my G20 and it is good to know which loads do what. I don't ever expect to be around grizzly or brown bears... but this is still useful in terms of general hunting capability. The properly loaded 10mm is a great cartridge for sure. 40S&W is a great cartridge too but just not as powerful for "more than human" assailant needs.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Agreed. If you got the right spot placement, it wouldn't matter... but if not the 200+ more ft lbs of energy would help some... I'd use a 200gr XTP for hunting. Do you handload?

[@cs9978]

What Lehigh is doing with bullet materials and design is great. And them partnering with Underwood makes for a supremely impressive combination. The 60 grain defenders in 357 sig are approaching rifle velocities and I would love to see how they actually perform. But I understand there probably aren't a bunch of 357 sig handguns in Alaska.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

How about this old video? kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJ7UfYx3aKpqY68

[@cs9978]

@@AlaskanBallistics exactly what I was interested in! Thanks!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You're welcome

[@teamsmallpinepubliclandhun2652]

For black bear defense would you choose the penetrators over buffalo bore 190 grain dangerous game?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@teamsmallpinepubliclandhun2652 either will work, you'll get significantly more energy with the penetrators, and slightly more penetration with the 190gr buffalo bore. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hafHc59qfauFqac

[@teamsmallpinepubliclandhun2652]

@@AlaskanBallistics Grizzly 200 grain fmj out of a gen 5 glock 20 seem to have pretty good numbers. What do you truthfully think about those

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@teamsmallpinepubliclandhun2652 they consistently jammed for me and had blown primers. Also the same brand in .45auto 185gr +p jhp had a 300 fps extreme spread. Never buying them again. Especially when there are better options. Another thing you might look at are the Underwood FMJ flat nose in 165gr, 180, or 200.. I think they actually use the speer bonded tmj fn bullets in them, though I can't prove it any more.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@teamsmallpinepubliclandhun2652 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKOYmZ-drJuJecUsi=F0PNczYbqleOcvEL. 165gr fmj

[@AlaskanBallistics]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppTddpaHa9CdgKssi=lzqM7cOlrj7NS2kr

[@ArmamentAxes]

Hey Chuck I seen 10 mm and had to watch! just bought the same chronograph and made a video with it. You do all this in the frozen tundra , Um yeah it just snowed 3 inches here and I hate winter! LOL good stuff brother !

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Lol we were in snow shoes Sunday making a video

[@danielandrews7028]

I totally was going for the hard cast. Completely surprised by the extreme penetrator. I think this video just changed my mind. I’m also thinking similar results out of the GP100

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yeah I've got verses 10mm videos with the gp100 but no projectile vs. In and of itself

[@TBreezy17]

Just got my Holosun red dot mounted to my g40. Love it.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Nice

[@bearc1373]

I am really looking forward to getting a 10mm. Those Underwood rounds will ruin someone's day with the quickness! Great video👍

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thanks Man! Don't hesitate on that 10mm

[@bearc1373]

@@AlaskanBallistics after the holidays I'm getting myself a late Christmas present 😁

[@1GoodDag]

Get an xdm... just a better gun

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Lol nope. Their sites fall off

[@1GoodDag]

@@AlaskanBallistics never heard of that except on your channel... also never heard of one blowing up... which glocks do.... so if you can't hit a charging bear without a front site? Wellllll at least that xdm will go bang at the bear and not in your hands... So.... yep. Xdm is a better safer gun... most Springfield front sights are pressed in too tight. Mb you guys got a lemon.

[@jamesgravel7755]

Still like the 200gn hard cast rounds. I can’t believe it hit 787ftlbs. That’s nuts. That 6.5” barrel is pretty sweet. I’m gona go with the 5.2” threaded barrel on my G20 to get a lil more power out of it. Cool vid. Thanks. I think that’s a pretty good test to show just how powerful the 10mm can be.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you. I hope your 5.2" barrel comes quickly. I still carry mostly hardcast.

[@vicparker8660]

Why do you use a threaded barrel?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Because some day i may want to put a suppressor or muzzle brake on it. Maybe not. I like having options

[@vicparker8660]

@@AlaskanBallistics thank you

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You're welcome

[@TheCrookedE]

Best intro music ever.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Why thank you i write all my own music check out my music channel BOST CUSTOM MUSIC WRITING. Thanks!!!

[@oldocsimms7411]

Thanks for sharing the comparison Chuck that was interesting.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You're welcome! Thank you for c watching DOC!

[@1GoodDag]

The difficulty comparing these 2 is in the difference in the weight and the velocity… high velocity skews the energy upward… I might choose the penetrator over the hardcast based solely on lower recoil but the hard cast with that much energy behind it would likely go through 2 bears before it stopped whereas the penetrator being much lighter would probably only defeat 1 bear lol.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Until i can tie identical twin bears to a tree... well never know for sure lol. Thanks for watching and the comments

[@southbayrickybobby5820]

Love the comparison. I just ordered a KKM 6.5 inch (I think) Glock 40 barrel barrel for my 20. With the 4 port compensator. Your videos helped make my decision. For a barrel it was definitely not cheap but I know I’ll get what I paid for. My biggest threat is a 4-600 pound black bear or mountain lion. For me ammo choice is a toss up between the XP, 200 grain XTP or the underwood 220 grain hard cast. I feel either would do it but when faced with anything confidence plays a huge roll in the outcome and I think the XP at 1700 FPS would make me confident enough to mess with Sasquatch.... Thankyou for what you do

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You're welcome. Thank you. Did you get their feed ramp Modification for the wide hardcast bullets?

[@southbayrickybobby5820]

@@AlaskanBallistics I didn’t even think I needed to do that. Wasn’t much on the KKM website as far as description. They describe the finishes in higher detail than anything. Hopefully I don’t have issues with that. I have a classic lone wolf barrel sold by Glock store under the brand “double diamond” that cycles hard cast but it’s a stock barrel length. Maybe I should email them. The wait time for the barrel is 3 months.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You do for wide bullets. Yep email them. Lone wolf barrels for me have been awful lately

[@southbayrickybobby5820]

@@AlaskanBallistics damn I didn’t know that. I emailed them this morning. Shouldn’t be an issue now. Thanks for the heads up. I would’ve been pissed had I waited 3 months for one just to find out it has a narrow feed ramp like lone wolf. They used to care more about functionality than looks but things have changed and everyone wants the same “cool” looking shit now so it seems all companies really care about is the finish on their products.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@@southbayrickybobby5820 kkm makes the feed ramp for lighter bullets and to get slightly better chamber support. Love wolf does the same thing. Check out my videos on the lone wolf barrel

[@PatRMG]

I'm so taking a whitetail with a Hardcast 357 or 10mm this season.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

So you better

[@walterpalmer2749]

Either bullet - Underwood ammo - good stuff, as advertised and better - top of the mark.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Unless it's revolver ammo... then they're always slow

[@timmyburch9126]

Great video I got both of these rounds up here in Fairbanks off of Chena Hot Springs Road.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Nice 👌 they ought to work well

[@AlphaRomeoOneFive]

For me I'm going with the extreme penetrators, although both performed well. I still need to get a 10mm! I'll look you up on Parler, just joined myself. Be well Chuck and God bless!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Godspeed brother. Don't hesitate on a 10mm

[@jimbean5962]

Parler is the move

[@nathanmanley4203]

Looks like both will work. Thanks for another great video.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yeah I've actually got them mixed in may g40 magazine.

[@chasejohnson1122]

TFB tv did a ballistics gel test with underwood hardcast vs the lehigh xtreme penetrator. the lehigh went 27in into the gel, the hardcast went twice as deep at 5 feet and they ran out of gel. its important to note they used the lehigh xtreme penetrators and not the underwood xtreme penetrators which have a much higher velocity, but still interesting results. there is somthing to be said for barrier penetration through bones aswell as bullet deflection, id say both will do the job but im still not sure which is the best

[@chasejohnson1122]

forgot the link m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4fak41mopeforM

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thanks brother

[@derrickadams4298]

If you was going to whitetail deer hunt with the g20 with a glock 6 inch barrel. What 10mm ammo would you recommend?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Underwood 200gr xtp Underwood 200gr Hardcast (try to hit bone) Underwood 100 or 115gr xtreme defender. Federal 200gr fusion not loaded as heavy but should do well. Same with barnes 155gr xpb Underwood 155gr xtreme hunter. Federal Also loads a swift a frame bullet. I forgot the grain, but it'll work well

[@zstidsen]

Carry xp's in my g29 for dog walking (heavy woods) carry. I switch to any decent +p jhp for daily carry (or even my sig p938 which is a little more concealable. My thought process is that I don't want over penetration if it comes down to a close quarters domestic situation. As always, I would never use my gun unless it was a last ditch effort to get away and protect me, my family, or any innocent civilians.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Sounds like a great idea

[@simms2703]

Exactly bro I feel you I EDC Glock 29 myself I typically carry underwood hollows for self defense but I have 2 other back up mags & one has hard cast ammo for unexpected situations such as these mass shootings or when I need deeper penetration

[@kyleritchie50]

I have some hard cast for my Glock 20 and for my Super Redhawk I have some Xtreme penetrators. I feel comfortable when I'm out with either firearm out here in Alaska.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Do you have a barrel capable of reliable feeding the hardcast in your g20?

[@kyleritchie50]

@@AlaskanBallistics luckily I haven't used my G20 yet, but my KKM should be here next week. I've been loading the .44 with xtreme penetrators until then. They had a 10 week wait and it's felt like a LONG wait lol

[@kyleritchie50]

www.ammoland.com/2019/10/alaskans-stop-grizzly-bear-charge-with-glock-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/

[@kyleritchie50]

I guess right here where I'm at someone took down a bear with a G20 not too too long ago.

[@herbieschwartz9246]

For simulation I suggest hide (cow hide with hair or similar) then a block(s) of ballistics gel.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you

[@YellowHammer26]

Great comparison, both looked good to me. 👍👍

[@AlaskanBallistics]

They'll both look good

[@hidaven]

Hi, which round had greater recoil? Also interesting to note, that hardcast smoke plume is lead ladened. that coating doesnt do much for keeping lead out of those barrels where copper is very clean.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Neither really revoked nor than the other

[@montanamusings]

I really like the penetrators! Thanks for the video!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Glad you like them! Thanks For watching! Please Share as KZbin isn't

[@Irish_real]

Awesome. Thanks. I haven’t had experience with the hard cast. Waiting to pick up the KKM barrel for my G40 soon.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Nice... you'll love the KKM meanwhile you'll get about 1600-1620 fps from the stock glock barrel with the xtreme penetrators from the g40. I have an old video on it somewhere.

[@ChronicalsofAl]

I went to order some online and found the 200gr hard cast were about 1/3 less than the extreme penetrators. Which sounds a lot better to me with the results being so similar

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I can concur. But unfortunately l, my 10mm banshee doesn't like them

[@robbiec8503]

Wouldve thought the hardcast pc wouldve stayed embossed on the bullet after impact. I use both also ( my own hc) xp has less felt recoil and what i use for walkabout when im in bear country

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Nice!

[@1898nc2]

I have had that problem with the 9mm xtream penetrators in a 5” barrel but the same box ran great in a 3” barrel

[@AlaskanBallistics]

What problem?

[@Swearengen1980]

I have both, but there's a reason that Underwood recommends the Penetrator for bear. However, I have seen quite a few people say they alternate both rounds in their mag. I'm not going to say it's logical unless you're really worried about a freak failure, but personally I have no concern with having either of these in the mag when I'm in bear country.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Agreed!

[@arguy3297]

Hmm i may have to try these xtreme penetrators. I have a g29 with a KKM extended 4.5" barrel and have not been able to get the 200gr HCs nor the BB 200s to feed. Same with the BB 190gr mono metals. Tried a heavier recoil spring too. If you have any suggestions to fix my issue please let me know. I live up here in AK as well.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

The feed ramp is polished correctly. Call kkm and tell them about your issues. Underwood fnfmj 165gr may work well too.

[@iamtarzan7965]

Awesome test bro. Something I been thinking about

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you. I generally run the Hardcast in my g40 and the xtreme penetrators in my g29

[@iamtarzan7965]

@@AlaskanBallistics sounds like a good set up. Thanks.

[@rogereisenbrey546]

can i ask you a question do you have a stock recoil spring and any issues with the kkm

[@AlaskanBallistics]

During this video, yes stock spring. No issues. Later I installed a 22lb ndz spring, also no issues

[@SuperD00D]

Could you please compare the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman hardcast to Buffalo Bore dangerous game “mono-metal”? Also would like to see the FPE of the 10mm mono-metal dangerous game. Gun Sam tested it against .44 magnum and got less than 700 fpe out of his gun, high 600s, and about 1,080 out of the .44. The .44 absolutely blew it away in performance, like, to a degree you would think it had 3-4x the energy. It was just weird… so I want to see how the G40 would help. Don’t remember what gun he used. I also am curious if the mono-metal is just solid copper or not.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I've tested both separately in videos. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hafHc59qfauFqacsi=SO8mCwdmin65kLjU kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKeoZKaFh5V6f7Msi=8EuUTKP-q8HhgCRf

[@xanderunderwoods3363]

Lol I'm Alaskan and my last name is Underwood. I have a Rock Hill Armory HC THREADED 10MM(extended barrel, heavier springs) 16RD pistol. I have found the only real way to stop a charging bear is to make your own ammo (240 grain, 220 is not powerful enough) I stack Underwood Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast, and Jacketed Hollow Point, every other round. Can confirm it will stop a charging bear...just don't miss.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Good luck.

[@charlesphillips5906]

Good luck picking up your brass!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Springtime

[@ammooth1592]

Those extreme penetraitors are lethal 💯

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yes they are I've sent 2 through a black bear head

[@ammooth1592]

@@AlaskanBallistics Brother, you watch and take care of yourself. I really love ❤ realistic, ballistics news about powerful guns from your channel 🤝

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you kindly brother!

[@kurttlethorup]

Would love to see the same video on a few shorter barrel lengths : )

[@AlaskanBallistics]

When I can I will. Not sure if my body still has the 3" Smith and Wesson

[@rowdybroomstick1216]

Incredible video! This is the first time I'm seeing show just what a good choice this gun and round would make for bear attacks

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Between the rapid follow up shots and the bear .357 mag power... it's a good choice. Shot placement is everything, not power

[@ventureofalifetime8989]

Hey brother. I got some rounds from Alaska ammo today. I also realized the intro is where I’ve camped before (at least im pretty sure) thanks for the video

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Sweet man. Thanks

[@kentwilliams3326]

How about Underwood's Extreme Hunter 150 grain load? Should be a good test...

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I've got a video on my .357 mag vs. 10mm series. Thanks!

[@joehelvey5794]

Does anyone else wanna drink that water knowing it tastes better than the shit we drink, his tap water is spring water. Freakin awesome, nice video Sir, ammo is so expensive we are all getting some joy watching folks enjoy themselves runnin thru some ammo. 2020 is almost over guys...

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yeah I bought a lot of ammo i last year and in the springtime to test

[@speculizer1971]

Well done vids!!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you brother

[@ploxplox1109]

Do I need aftermarket barrel for xtreme defender I know people say for hardcast probably would be best for aftermarket barrel

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I use an aftermarket barrel for any high pressured load. Need, maybe not so much

[@ploxplox1109]

@@AlaskanBallistics which one would you recommend a lot of people are telling me KKM barrel or Lone wolf ? And does these barrel shoot regular load good as well like range ammo?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Kkm and yes they shoot take ammo Just fine. Cheap range ammo that's loaded down in specs to near .40s&w loads have more to do with the springs and not the barrel. If take out my heavy 22lb ndz spring and put in the lower poundage factory spring for that.

[@jeffreylocke8808]

How about some 460 Rowland tests with hardcast and if available an extreme penetrator.?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Sometime this summer I'll try

[@wdfm1985]

With the hardcast having that red coating on it is it ok to shoot through a stock glock barrel compared to say buffalo bore hardcast with no coating?

[@PriusTurbo]

Underwood addresses that in the FAQ on their website. They say the 200 gr hardcast is safe for a stock glock barrel but it seems that the kkm is the go to if you're going to shoot hardcast often. The better barrel lockup of the kkm is important for hotter loads in the glock where the Underwood FAQ just mentions hardcast ammo being safe for the stock barrel in regard to lead deposits - I believe.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@Troy Johnson I can't answer it any better than @PriusTurbo did. Thanks y'all for commenting and answering. Godspeed to you and yours.

[@kentuckywindage222]

I have the hard cast Underwood 9mm 147 gr. and 45acp 255 gr. that I carry in certain situations. The 45acp 255 grain is very accurate out of a G30 gen4. The 9mm 147 out of a G19 gen3 is reasonably accurate also. Haven't run them through the chronograph.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You'll be lucky to break 825 with the g30. The 147 out the 19 should get you at least 1025. I've got hardcast vs xtreme penetrators video lined up for 9mm and 45-70 next. Probably will do the 45-70 first

[@kentuckywindage222]

@@AlaskanBallistics Thanks my friend. This ain't Alaska, but there are some deep dark hollers and cliffs. In my time I've ran into Moonshiners, pot fields, shot at, hit once, some very unpleasant individuals and once went from hunter to hunted. Still not sure what that was but I circled back, tried to flank etc. about 3 times before it broke off. Strange hunt. I went back more than once at night and day, but never come across anything. Thinking about it makes the hair stand on my neck just like that day. Whatever it was, it was fast and had to be intelligent. Of course a mountain lion would explain it possibly. You would think it would leave more than just broken twigs. No tracks that I could find. Funny because I could see the movement in the thick Laurel. Ever experienced anything weird like that?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I have not. Sasquatch if you ask chuke. Lol mountain lion most likely. Glad you were armed

[@AddamSolo]

@@kentuckywindage222 Animals do not affect the hairs on your neck. You were being hunted by a jinn.

[@kentuckywindage222]

@@AddamSolo Maybe for you Adam, but if a larger cat screams around me the hair stands right up. I've spent a lot of time in the bush. Seen a couple of things and done a couple more in my year's. There are things hard to explain sometimes, if you can explain them. Spidey sense if you will is something I always listen to. Not just hair standing on my neck. I've had it happen in public places. A predator is a predator.

[@theoriginalmomomike2869]

How close is a boars skull compared to bears? Would they be available at a butcher shop?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Sinew not as dense... but might be worth looking into

[@biggs8729]

Hard to say who the winner is. Looks like the XP rounds had a little less recoil and penetrated deeper. If all things were equal, that's not a bad tie breaker. The price and availability would be another thing to consider. Finally, the Buffalo Bore looks like it's a really dirty round, excessive and dark muzzle blast and possibility of lead fowling in the barrel.

[@fjb4932]

Biggs, I'm sure a bear would concur. . . .

[@KenBeaconHill]

When standard deviation is expressed as a percentage of muzzle velocity (which it should be), these 2 are about the same.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Okay I'll keep that in mind. Thanks

[@UltimateEnd0]

Thanks this tests confirms that xtreme penetrators will work better than Underwood 220grain hardcast on waterbears.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Lol true...

[@scbane]

Load up some 10mm with the Lehigh Extreme Penetrator with the 4 flutes. Shoot it through a 1/8" steel plate backed by ballistic gel. Film it, trust me.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Interesting

[@gauravshrestha4776]

Awesome video. Is there a big advantage between the stock barrel and after market barrel? I am considering one for a G40.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

In the fact that the kkm has much better chamber support for hot loads

[@davesusierobinson6508]

Great video . Lot of useful information. I have a Springfield armory TRP Operator in 10mm . I plan to deer hunt with it this year. Probably run the extreme penetrator

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Good call but don't negate the 155gr and 180gr Underwood XTP.... nor the xtreme hunter or Xtreme defender. All would be good on whitetail with proper shot placement.

[@musikSkool]

You gotta admit the hard cast, a 100 year old technology, is right up there with a considerably more complicated bullet. It only lost by a thin margin, I'd say it penetrated about 95% as well as that copper one.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Agreed

[@TommyboyGTP]

How about comparing the Penetrator to the Defender or the Hunter?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Well I've got the ammo... hmmn I'll have to fit that in the schedule...

[@Mikes_rc_adventures]

Both are phenomenal rounds by the numbers

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yep... they're both in my mags

[@Mikes_rc_adventures]

@@AlaskanBallistics I have the extreme penetrators in my .45 and the hard cast in my g20 along with Buffalo bore

[@AlaskanBallistics]

You've fixed up your g20 to handle the hardcast?

[@Mikes_rc_adventures]

@@AlaskanBallistics I uh have not but I haven’t run it through yet

[@Mikes_rc_adventures]

@@AlaskanBallistics what do I need to do that

[@jacksondering6849]

Question - What spring weight do you use? Do you use OEM or go with stiffer aftermarket spring? If so what spring weight do you use with these rounds?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I've not had any issue with the factory glock Spring nor my NDZ 22 pounds.

[@kimjongpoon4202]

Can you shoot the penetrators out of a stock barrel safely, unlike the hardcast?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yes... but any high pressure load i put into my kkm barrel.

[@warmachinegaming-zf2tn]

Is this gonna be similar for the .45 ACP versions of these ammunitions?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yes. I've got a video with the .45 version in a sig p220. It's an older bad video but it was still impressive

[@warmachinegaming-zf2tn]

@@AlaskanBallistics okay sweet. I have both the ammo's just wanted to know what to carry in my 1911. I live at the foot of the Appalachian mountains so, I'd like to have the best possible option 🤣

[@AlaskanBallistics]

In the Appalachians, which ever one is more accurate for you

[@warmachinegaming-zf2tn]

@@AlaskanBallistics that'd be the penetrators.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

In .45 auto, don't skimp out on the speer Lawman flat nose 200gr BONDED TMJ +P. great round

[@D-A-1776]

I've always wondered which is better for bear defense. especially with the hard cast being a heavier bullet

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I really still carry both

[@D-A-1776]

​@@AlaskanBallistics. Yeah I carry a mag with both in it.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Me too but that's because i can't afford another box after testing them... so i mix what's left over.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Been carrying my hardcast handloads from ckbcastbullets dot com. Much harder lead than buffalo bore or Underwood.

[@D-A-1776]

@AlaskanBallistics . I definitely know that feeling, I ordered mine and it comes to about 70 bucks a box after shipping. My buddy reloads we're gonna start doing the same

[@bartb21]

Can you tell a noticeable difference in recoil, I am assuming the light bullets has less. Great video as always! Thanks

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Not really no discernible difference

[@BOHEMIANHUNTINGCLUB]

Nicely done 👍🍻

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you

[@rickyburton3973]

What are the pros and cons of Underwood hard cast vs Buffalo bore or is it negligible?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Negligible. I only use the 200gr Underwood not the 220gr... no difference

[@greg6264]

Nice video. Both rounds look good. A couple of years ago, I decided the Extreme Penetrators would be my bear round for the G20 and bought several boxes. How many FPS less would you guess I'd get in my G20 with a stock barrel and spring?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I've got a video on that somewhere but about 75- 125 fps less than the g40. Underwood isn't very consistent in velocity from lot number to lot number.

[@greg6264]

@@AlaskanBallistics Thanks! I found a video you did comparing the Glock 29, 20, and 40 that shows velocity differences. Here is a link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5O1Y6WJYpdqb6c

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Thank you

[@pink_love_cat4928]

What you reckon the temperature was that day ?

[@AlaskanBallistics]

17 to 25 degrees Fahrenheit