Alfarrari brake headache - Ferrari engined Alfa 105 Alfarrari build part 216

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[@jimspackman8527]

One thing that isn't helping your brake pedal feel is the design of your bias bar housing. It's allowing the bar to twist so the pushrods into the masters are taking up quite an extreme angle. This will be giving you some "lost motion" in the pedal. If you look at the Alfaholics dual circuit brake box for these cars, you can see that the bias bar sits inside a steel tube that stops this happening. We've still had customers getting this problem because they forgot to tighten the lock nut which stops the whole thing twisting so the fitting guide I wrote has a strong warning about this! I'm not sure if your setup will take a tube like ours but it's worth looking at. And yeah, we fit a bigger cylinder on the rear too. Don't forget to make the pushrod into the front cylinder slightly longer to take into account the extra travel so that when the brakes are on it levels out.

[@stevenwest1494]

That's the kind of advice that saves weeks if not months.

[@melbournecyclingsegments7510]

if your engineer drives the car, even for a minute, and it is making that beeping noise...he will kill you. 😆

[@mattbettany1174]

"Project Binky, now there's a name I haven't heard in very long time "(in an Alec Guinness accent) Great to see the Alfarerrari nearly there now , can't wait to see it screaming down the road

[@MichaelAMangone]

Project Binky got me into fabrication and welding. Good stuff.

[@mattbettany1174]

@@MichaelAMangone I was lucky enough to sit in Binky a couple of years ago at Weston Park

[@Jonathan_Doe_]

Binky and Alfarrari battling on the Nurburgring would make great viewing… Be an expensive proposition for Jeff though.

[@MichaelAMangone]

@@mattbettany1174 and how were the brackets? As good as they look on camera?

[@mattbettany1174]

@@MichaelAMangone the bracketry was of course exceptional

[@seanalexander9531]

One quick diagnostic check is to clamp the flexible brake lines (if they're rubber) and see if the pedal improves. Then release them one at a time and check the pedal each time. This can help narrow down where the air is.

[@salamander5703]

Good to see you measure toe with the gauges on the correct part of the wheel - the inside, flat part of the flange. I see far too many videos where "experts" measure to the flange outer edge, which on steel wheels may not be true to the wheel and on alloys which may have been worn on kerbs etc before being painted up nicely again

[@ignus9928]

I miss you calling it Lam-ba-da, genuinely it was one of my favorite mispronunciation and it made that episode awesome

[@marusrekers5956]

Hi Jeff. Greetings, from Canada, I spent 20 years as an Automotive technician before retiring. In regards to your brake issue, you may want to try bleeding the brakes with just the front of the car lifted way up in the air and the back on the floor. I have found, particularly in vehicles with very low mounted master cylinders, this sometimes helps encourage the air to move out. Just something for you to try. Love, love, love the channel.

[@woopimagpie]

Years ago I did a disc brake conversion on an old XP Falcon. Replaced EVERYTHING. I thought it would be easy...... the old drum brake system was truly frightening so I knew I couldn't make it worse. Ha! Yeah right. It actually took far longer to get the system working properly than it took to install all the hardware. I went through that whole cycle of bleed, adjust, test drive at least eight times, with no result. Like you I was at my wits end. Even my local brake shop was stumped. I didn't have the luxury of separate master cylinders so fitting a larger bore for the rears wasn't an option. I ended up kind of cheating and installing a (hideously expensive) adjustable pressure reducing valve for the rears, after that it worked perfectly. It turns out brakes are nowhere near as simple as you think. Very glad you got it sorted.

[@anomamos9095]

Tip It might be possible to fit your own backlight system for the gauges. Get some thin Perspex clear or a suitable colour. Cut it to go behind the faceplate Sand one side so that it is frosted. Glue some LEDs around the perimeter pointing into the clear side. This should give a diffuse backlight.

[@Andrew-vx2ls]

Thanks for the update Jeff. My main fear is the proximity of the exhaust to the master cylinders (even though you have a protection). I can appreciate that this is somewhat inevitable. With regard to gauges, many aftermarket manufacturers simply do not care about the night lighting; one particular remanufacturer I can think off (that my project has in common with Binky) has lax quality controls (3 different errors including 2 on custom gauge printing). I am going to look for a specialist in a shed and will probably have to start from scratch.

[@jimspackman8527]

We had a visit from two guys from a very well known race instrument manufacturer many years ago to talk about them making gauges for us. We brought up the fact that at the time their instruments didn't have backlights. "Why would you need lighting in historic race instruments?" they replied. So we showed them the trophy we'd won at the Spa Six Hours race. In a car with a competitor's gauges in it. Funny thing, their gauges have backlights now.

[@tonyknight1272]

Glad to see that you never give up. You always seem to find a solution. Keep up the good work Jeff, love ur channel m8. Best wishes from the UK 🇬🇧

[@robinfoster7597]

I has that issue with 4 pot calipers - the solution was to take the caliper off the car, still conneted to to the brake lines and turn it upside down, to get the air out of what is normally the bottom of the caliper and then bleed it. Also, should have 2 bleeding tubes when you're bleeding a pair of wheel cylinders. Hope that helps? Keep up the good work, love your videos. :)

[@taylorc4476]

I never thought of ALL those details like the ones you continuously uncover and explore in your builds. Daunting task, rebuilding and modding a machoine. Solid work, as usual.

[@deanbradford7126]

I’m no expert like you but. When I replaced and upgraded my Beetle brakes I tried your method with the vaccum pump thing but I just couldn’t get the brake pedal to stiffen up. I then tried the Ezi bleed way that pressurised the master cylinder and what a difference that made. My brake pedal is firm and good after 5 years. Good luck I’m looking forward to the update. Greetings from the UK 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@jimgerock9190]

Use a pressure bleeder instead of a vacuum blender. Have your wife slowly pump the brake pedal while you bleed each corner.

[@gradocchio]

Years ago a really good air-cooled Porsche mechanic taught me a trick to bleeding (especially with new calipers) brakes. You install totally shot pads in the caliper and work them in/out (using the pedal for in, a big pry bar to push them back) several times. He called it "exercising the calipers".. Seems that when new, with new pads, there isn't really enough movement to bleed well, but that's just my guess, all I know is on my 78 SC race car it worked!

[@paulstuart8676]

Jeff, your brakes try adjusting the brake bias more, that setting looked very neutral. and what is the Piston volume front to rear ratio, you have a car where the weight balance front to rear is (i'm guessing) 55/45 maybe 50/50. That Tilton bar shouldn't twist so much as the pedal is applied. just check your calculations again. connect the bias adjustment cable to the Tilton Bar and to the Dash. PS do you have Carol Smiths set of books, it's all in there.

[@mikl911]

Good luck with the inspection! Hopefully brakes are sorted and we can see you ripping her around soon!

[@furbies]

Good luck on the inspection 🎉

[@billmcintosh1242]

Great progress ticking of the small items! All takes time with a detailed complex project. Thanks for sharing your passion. Bill Mc

[@temporarynoble]

I feel your pain, bleeding brakes is the worst job. I keep putting off re plumbing all the lines on my Mini.

[@oldieman730]

Very interesting video, I hadn't thought of piston diameter having any affect on pressure obtained.

[@XiraArien]

I used to hate bleeding brakes as well. I invested in a nice pressure bleeding kit with easy connection to the reservoir. Makes it a breeze now and always works. Vacuum bleeding is horrible to work with. Regarding the master cylinder you also need to take the different displacement volume needed on the calipers on front vs rear - not only pressure

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

I have one, and use both pressure and vacuum. Still sucked ;)

[@pinshaw]

makes sense on mc's, Alfaholics dual box has the same setup, small for front, larger for rear. not sure o sizing, but explanation helps me understand why its that way, thanks

[@9madness9]

I am with you on hating break bleeding.

[@iainmcglynn833]

Best ask Mrs .Jeff when you’ve issues Girls know everything 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿😎

[@SpankysHotRodsandCustoms]

Thanks for sharing Jeff. Good luck with the inspection

[@rjung_ch]

Hi Jeff, all the effort to pass the MOT and he didn't show up? When he does, I really hope you get it passed. Guess we'll find it out in the next video. Cheers 👍💪✌

[@peterbonnez]

A frustrating week, but you solved it. Clever chap.

[@davidcoates9123]

Well done mate.

[@florasdad1]

Well done Jeff

[@nigelk780]

Suck through bleeding sucks imo. Two people one holding pedal pressure and other rapid depressuring at the nipple works best for me , blasts the air through- always. That adjustable bias would be an automatic fail in UK inspection.

[@tinnedanger]

That brake switch fitting is too close to the exhaust. The heat is boiling the oil. You need a serious heatshield there.

[@chrisoo8998]

Yeah I was thinking the same

[@Paula2002]

The Alfa Giulia 952 has digital gauges that on 2024 models are a screen behind the cowls, bit expensive I guess for your build and would need programming!!

[@ronintres6757]

what a lot of work again and I'm happy for you that you solved the brake problem, and now of course fingers crossed that it will pass the inspection, good luck 🍀💪🏻

[@fredericrike5974]

Lovely new sweater, Ms. J! More of that fine Aussie wool you have a taste for. Jeff, I'm going to miss Alfararri- I know your growing thin spots will too!

[@soulcontractor1641]

It's " Driving me Crazy" and now it's lockiing up the rear! I'm tearing my hair out! Jeff you made me laugh, that was funny! Ah! Trouble Shooting Dean( Soul) Toronto Canada 🇨🇦

[@peterferryman4905]

Breaks can be a pain 🙄🤷 Great job!! 👍👏

[@terminalpsychosis8022]

What an awesome little buggy. This is a real work of love, and art. Good the brakes are sorted, mostly. Major milestone achieved. go and stop. Now back to the GO.. oh, and wipers. ;-)

[@nilsthemis]

Regarding MC bores, the front brake calipers normally have much larger diameter piston area than rear calipers. Therefore you need to supply much bigger volume of brake fluid in front to move the brake pistons and pads the same distance as in the rear. So putting smaller diameter master cylinder bore for front brakes sounds a bit weird, frankly. The balancing bar adjust the forces applied to generate pressure, but you can run out of piston travel in the front MC. An inspection should react to this setup.

[@jimspackman8527]

Nope, that's not how brakes work. It's about the pressure you apply to the calipers not the volume. So Jeff's setup is now correct with a smaller cylinder on the front. That gives you automatic front bias with the balance rod centred. Alfaholics where I work sells a brake box with this setup and we set them up with a smaller front cylinder. If the cylinders are connected the wrong way round, the brakes are terrible.

[@ercolebarrile8045]

impressive!

[@gazzafloss]

Hey Jeff, repeat after me, "when I install some part of remove and replace some part, I MUST re-tighten the bolts that hold those parts in". Luckily that centre bearing didn't go full spaceship. Doing good Jeff, fingers crossed for an engineering "pass".

[@carynelson8536]

Best of luck Jeff... Cary Nz

[@justwhy2484]

Maybe if you put window tint over the bright Raceworks gauges it would be acceptable (short term).

[@jeppenordfosskristensen7319]

Top job - As always 👌🏻🇳🇿🇩🇰🏁😎

[@jasonm6353]

Another great video mate. I’m pretty sure I’ll be in a similar position to yourself soon, brake wise.

[@davidklauer3422]

Best way to spent a Sunday morning Hope the lord forgives me for saying that

[@Torch4ya]

Good luck with the engineer inspection! 🤞

[@1one3_Racing]

Not quite correct on your brake master cylinder sizing. You ARE correct that large MC is high volume/low pressure and small MC is high pressure/low volume, but you need to account for fluid volume as well. You have huge 6 piston front calipers and tiny single piston rears. Amount of fluid vs size of pistons makes a difference. If you run a small MC you'll run out of throw in the pedal before you run out of brake pad. To get you balance bar more towards centre you'd be better off running a too large MC on the rear than running a too small MC on the front, and it's far safer! Your rear brakes will still come on first because they require less fluid to move the same distance as the pistons are smaller so you'll still need to run a front heavy balance bar. It's actually quite complicated and I've been trying to calculate my MC sizing for a while now but I have a complicated linkage system in my brake pedal for the right hand drive conversion.....

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Hence why I put a larger cylinder on the rear not a smaller on the front ;)

[@1one3_Racing]

@@HomeBuiltByJeff yeh. It seems to work too. I was worried that it would pump too much fluid so your rear brakes would engage first. Even at lower pressure it might still be enough to upset the balance of the car.

[@paulsabucchi]

All hail the Mysterious Algorythm, in bocca al lupo per il collaudo (all the best for the inspection) ciao from italy

[@kennethcroese4240]

Jeff have tried reverse bleeding you presurise fluid from the callipers back up to the master cylinder you can buy a reverse bleeding kit from any good spare parts they are reasonably cheap and very efective

[@lreventao]

Hello jeff from Spain From my experience, the issue with the brake seems air but it's not. I'm 100% sure it's dead / excessive travel of pistons in front calipers . Hydraulic issue obviously but not air definitely. Good luck

[@lreventao]

Ok I've seen it's corrected itself😂 that's good luck

[@Yosemite_Sam]

"It's just Best Laid Plans really". Bwhahaha, love the tongue in cheek comments. Great video you two. Cheers.

[@GANEZ]

Since you've been through all this to make this awesome car i believe the gauges should be made digital. It will be a reminder that this car is also an upgrade and surely deserves one nice flair of 2024 technology. Also you'll be able to control all the car through the dash without the need of your phone.

[@computiNATEor]

The Ferrari V8 would’ve had mechanical gauges in the 360. I don’t think it suits this car.

[@willemjordaan4108]

Nice Jeff, is the dent still in the roof? 😂😂Greetings from South Africa! ❤

[@briannareid9423]

Try pressure bleed you get a tube that fits over the break fluid put air pressure to push all the fluid out work great

[@Scuderia_Fan]

Getting closer... 😃

[@rossmarzano]

Try knocking the calipers gently with a rubber mallet while bleeding. Air sometimes gets stuck in them.

[@AmirPomen]

U need bigger master cylinder for the brake... Its because most likely your displacement of master cyl piston travel to reservoir cut-off didnt allow enough amount of fluid to fill the massive front caliper... this exolaination from ap racing website: Travel to Cut-Off Explanation All master cylinders except the CP6093 type have triple bypass ports. The standard short cut off cylinders 0.68mm to 1.09mm (0.027" to 0.043") should be used for normal applications and especially where rapid fluid return is required when changing pads. Extra short cut off is 0.48mm to 0.63mm (0.019" to 0.025") are available in most styles and are identified with an 'E' suffix ***Also since u were looping UP the brake line above the strut, that also cpuld be the potential locaion for trapped air in the line

[@spinnetti]

I hate bleeding brakes too. Got a 2000 LS400 a few weeks ago, and facing spongy brakes after 10 times bleeding too. Makes me crazy.

[@patfilice]

I have seen if you don’t get full travel out of the brake master cylinder air can get trapped in it

[@meanredspider]

On my race Giulia, there’s almost no rear braking at the limit due to the weight balance and I don’t have a big lump of a Ferrari engine up front.

[@chrisoo8998]

The inside looks killer tho looks mint

[@lowreedman]

I've seen the pressure switches fail internally and suck air.

[@eNZylbgd]

since you have the ferrari engine, isn't it better to get ferrari gauges and customize them to fit in the alfa cluster?!

[@danijuggernaut]

You only need rpm, oil press and the radio sound.

[@lonerider5982]

I Hope you will put a better steering wheel. Maybe you can custom made one

[@gardmolvig9674]

I have had a similar break issue with my Alfa 105 and sponge feeling pedal. I have stopped bleeding with vacuum. I use pressure to push from the reservoar. Since then i have never hade any problem with it.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

I used both my vacuum and pressure bleeders.

[@stevenwest1494]

Anyone else having the problem where there's adverts every 3/4 minutes and then the advert ends and stays black, and you have to restart the video from where you left off manually? Bloody annoying. It's taken me like an extra 5 minutes.... Worth it for the edit though being polished.

[@MatsGarage]

Your exhaust heat might boil the fluid in the brake light switch fitting during driving if you dont have some sort of shielding in there. Not a good way to enjoy the car with a dissapearing pedal.

[@ashokn1273]

Your are the legend 💫🗿

[@tomknight5158]

Jeff did you ever get the roof crease sorted after your lift accident?

[@plus790]

Pressure bleeding (into the reservoir) is WAY easier than vacuum.

[@benjohnson7170]

That Fing beeping,lol fail... Don't know what it is,I may have been interrupted,whilst at work.😜

[@h200z]

I built racing Ducati motorbikes,but I see you have banjo fittings.. I've chased this soft feel issue on them as well until I cracked the banjo fittings first and then moved to the calipers and the issue went away for a full firm feeling.. Now that is my standard procedure and I acquired bleedable nippled banjo bolts.. Problem solved.. 😢😢

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Good tip

[@twcmaker]

Hey Jeff, What time on a Sunday morning does your video come out? I've got to do my filming this morning and want to watch your video before I get out there. Thank you Jamie

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Right now

[@thechumpsbeendumped.7797]

Did he ever get the dent in the roof fixed?

[@gianlucaburger9492]

you never disappoint....why buy a $5 Chinese phone holder when you can take 1 hour to make a bespoke one.

[@anderslarsson6149]

💛

[@GerardBendotti]

it looks like your phone may block the gauge just to left of it

[@andrewbaluk1663]

heat shielding for that brake pressure switch?

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

I mentioned it in the video, but yes I have a heat shield over it.

[@rongeernaert1208]

Up to the point, but how is the roof damage today?

[@steveenglund2286]

Hi Jeff Love this build and your style. How did you fasten the phone mount to the dash?

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

With the screw that holds the gauge cluster ;)

[@steveenglund2286]

@@HomeBuiltByJeff Thanks!

[@randycollett1746]

Should that brake switch fitting be insulated from the exhaust heat?

[@johngibson3837]

Hey up jeff how does the rego work in NSW for the Alfa it's age would qualify it for some sort of historic but does this still apply with it having a much newer engine

[@hughjohnson2674]

👍👍👍👍

[@69MazdaR100]

Can you put the brake switch on the master cylinder outlet?

[@rickhaiman9904]

Don't you need a lazy susan device under each wheel so the resistance of the tires rubber doesn't effect the true natural wheel centering when adjusting?

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Ideally, but it is close and a quick recheck after a drive will do the same.

[@123shaunstodd]

Pipes stretching

[@michaelsandford2301]

Looked like it slipped out of gear (3rd gear?) on that last run Jeff. Or did I imagining it

[@andrewlitchfield4843]

What's left on list... just power steering?

[@SkylarkCamperAdventures]

When you braked there was a lot of movement on the gearstick….is that OK?

[@hydroxacte]

I thought I saw it jump out of gear by itself -- right?

[@SkylarkCamperAdventures]

@@hydroxacte Not sure I saw it jump out of gear but moved quite a bit.

[@b3nny90]

I don't remember correctly but did you bench bleed the masters? I had an issue for a few weeks trying to bleed brakes and it was the master with air. I bench bled it with fluid above it for the head pressure and got a bunch of air out and then got my pedal back

[@sylvainflecheux1814]

What is the référence of toe tool? Thanks for all Jeff

[@joejenkins5650]

Well, it looks like you’re well on your way to getting your inspection taken care of. I was wondering where you purchased your alignment tools and do you have an address? I have a license plate I would like to send you cheers mate.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Alignment on ebay. Address in every vid description ;)

[@trapjohnson]

Lambda is not going to not make me laugh after way back when ;)

[@TheLapistola28]

Do you know if the master cylinder can actually move enough fluid for the front caliber ?

[@TheLapistola28]

Shoulda kept watching ... lol

[@jimclarke1108]

Did you take a few panadols after that Jeff

[@markm486]

Jeff did you have the right size of muster cylinder for the big brakes cos if you have a small master for the big brakes your not going to work

[@tonydaubern4665]

Perhaps your brake pressure switch are fault maybe you can swap it out with a new one