Rosaria Butterfield Sounds the Alarm on the Threat of Side B "Gay Christianity”

[@rossaho]

Alisa and Rosaria, thank you so much for this video! I am a 26 year old man who left homosexuality and a life of prostitution in 2019. I am now pursuing seminary and i am so encouraged to hear of people who are not scared to touch on this topic in this day and age! God bless you both💛

[@sunsets1209]

Powerful!! bless you brother 🤍 this is encourages my soul that change is possible.

[@Ransomed77]

Yes, your testimony is a reminder that God is still in the heart changing business! May the Lord continue to give you grace and strength!

[@YoSlay2470]

God is so good!

[@ishm1592]

Alisa & Rosaria always bring amazing insight. I was hit hard with this one, especially side B "Christianity" and ssa "just a struggle" thinking. Thank you so much. You guys are a clarion gift to the Body. 🙏

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

It rather amazes me that Christians are still willing to tackle this and that YT doesn't just ban these types of videos and interviews. They censor just about everything else. I suppose that will be coming soon. It's hard to be a Christian now, unless you're a jellyfish and give in to the alphabet mafia and celebrate their sexuality w/ them. They erroneously claim that if you don't affirm and clap for them, that you're attacking their core identity.

[@vikawinters]

Oh em gee! I remember when I was a teenager I dressed boyish and walked like a bro to avoid attention from weirdos. No one understood why I dressed that way. And I didn’t want to share it either. How many girls like me today are being tricked into transgenderism. God have mercy on us and give us wisdom.

[@DrinkYourNailPolish]

Me too!!

[@sarahturner8625]

Me three! I got mistaken for a boy regularly. I cried when I was forced to wear a dress. I’m so glad I wasn’t 12 in today’s culture. I would probably have been permanently disfigured.

[@cathywithac3793]

Same here. I'm 60 now. I've never been super feminine and I was your typical tomboy. Puberty was awful (menstruation, breasts, attention from boys & men, etc.). Young girls today are being told they can pause puberty! They can be boys! I dare say it's demonic that we have medical professionals who are willing to perform double mastectomies and hysterectomies on young, healthy but very confused women. I'm sure for these so-called medical professionals, it's all about the money. May God have mercy on us. 😢

[@Nanacansew]

I feel you, as me too. I am 65, am so grateful I was born then. I am not a frilly girly girl, but I am definitely all woman. Yet, I think that I would have been challenged at that period I was susceptible. I look back now and am grateful for having God keep me shielded from this insanity.

[@Redeemed.of.YHVH.thru.Christ]

I was a tomboy growing up, and my oldest daughter is just like me in so many ways, and she swore off dresses at age 6, and has never been “girly”, but she is also not confused about being a woman. If she had been born just a few years later, she might have been brainwashed by the madness going on around the issue of gender on social media. Praise God that she was born early enough to escape this Mao Marxist indoctrination that’s going on with our youth and gender, and Marxist ideology is EXACTLY what is happening. Thousands of young people are going to realize soon enough that they have been BRAINWASHED into believing something false about themselves, and as a result they have IRREVERSIBLY mutilated their bodies with surgery, or sterîIizéd themselves with oral chemical castration drugs. When that happens, the fallout is going to be horrific. I would not be surprised if they don’t unaIìve themselves or their parents for pushing them into doing irreversible things to themselves, because their parents FAILED to protect them from harm. My daughter is 18 now, and she is not super-feminine, but she is exactly who she wants to be, and she loves being a woman, but she just despises dresses. At what point did people forget that the things you enjoy doing, or how you like to dress, doesn’t have a darn thing to do with gender? We went from “don’t stereotype gender”, to “if you fit the stereotypical traits of a specific gender, if it’s opposite what you were born, then you’re in the wrong body”. Absolute nonsense. I feel so sorry for these children who have been brainwashed and deceived into destroying their bodies. I hope they sue everyone who deceived them, especially the doctors who butchered them, and even their parents who FAILED to protect them. How ignorant can a parent be to just believe the Marxist gender propaganda that is all over social media? I also didn’t give my children cell phones until they were well into high school, so they didn’t have access to the ßS propaganda online that has brainwashed so many young people. So many parents should be absolutely ashamed of what they’ve allowed to be done to their naïve children. They were supposed to be the voice of reason, but instead they became mouthpieces for the Marxist gender propaganda that’s destroying their children. Utterly despicable, and inexcusable.

[@loriteng1591]

My daughter wanted me to embrace and celebrate that she identified as a bisexual, queer. After 5 sessions of counselling I told her I loved her but could not embrace or celebrate in this. She concluded that she had to end the relationship with me. It has meant that not only for now, I have lost my daughter but also my 3 grandkids. It is the most painful journey I have ever walked! Her eternity is too important! I white-knuckle His word and count the cost, knowing He is able to move mountains! I am so grateful for the resources I have found and the people who have walked their journeys' - Rosaria Butterflield thank you! Christopher Yuan, Beckett Cook, Alisha Childers!

[@845karolewithak]

I am praying for you and your family, that the Lord may grant her repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and she may come to her senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will, 2 Timothy 2:25-26

[@loriteng1591]

@@845karolewithak thank you!!!

[@matt8264]

Keep praying. God is faithful. Never give up

[@neekomofoluwaso2819]

@Quint-ib4nf I'm sorry but the bible says otherwise in Matthew 10:37-39.

[@michaelmadsen-yq5kw]

@@neekomofoluwaso2819Exactly. We must place Jesus high above all else!

[@douglaswebster1028]

People say, "I was born this way." Jesus says, " That's why you need to be BORN-AGAIN!"

[@bethsummerville341]

Nobody was born that way. It is an abomination to God. And He cannot contradict Himself.

[@elizabethviars7246]

In all my years on earth, I have NEVER heard this comeback!!! Brilliant!!! 👏 👏 👏 👑 👑 👑 🙏 🙏 🙏 🖐 👐 🖐 👐 🖐

[@frankjohnston1186]

Born-Again is truly the Holy Spirit that lives in you. That's being born again. Maybe a person was born this way (the nature of sin - anything can happen). Out with the old self, in with the new self. Paul says, "I used to walk in this way (any sin), but now...Paul says (1 Corinthians 3)." You may have been born with these tendencies, but you pray and repent and focus on God. We carry empathy because "I too sin." So if someone has these tendencies, sin is not easy, but the only thing that saves is the blood of Christ. You will struggle, but you must be in prayer and supplication. ALL have fallen short.....I'm hetero, but sin was a part of me from birth. We must grow in the likeness of Christ and turn away from all sin and tendencies, etc..etc..etc.

[@claireg2o11]

Not everyone says they’re born “this way.” Many are born again to recognize their authentic selves is not the model of Christianity we’ve grown up with. I hope you can be awakened to God’s radical love.

[@systemofadownsyndrome7715]

Reincarnation

[@Deacondan240]

A great discussion from a former professor and LGBT person/ advocate to repented of their sin and is speaking out.

[@CMA418]

You also can’t be rich and Christian but nobody likes to talk about that one.

[@Janevelyn]

@@CMA418thats not true

[@CMA418]

@@Janevelyn “woe to the rich…”

[@joeclark1621]

@@Janevelyn Being super wealthy is more condemned by Christ than homosexual acts but you guys just want to believe what you want. It's about pushing a narrative that suits your agenda. Has nothing to do with being biblical. Deacondan said he's a former professor and LGBT as if you can't be those things and be a christian lol. Using that logic, nobody is a christian cause we're all sinners or are you gonna tell me your sins are on a more forgiving rank than the LGBT crowds lol.

[@christiansaint716]

@@CMA418 Where do you get that?? It's what we do w/the money that counts, not the money itself! If a person hoards all of their money to themselves, then yeah they will be judged. If they share w/others, then they will be blessed even more. Abraham was VERY rich, but he walked in obedience to God.

[@IAM2388]

Hey Alisa, I think it's very disappointing, Rosaria has the opportunity to meet Preston and discuss she refused. This is very pathetic the spectacle you display on KZbin. Are you saying that Laurie Krieg, Rachel Gilson, Jackie hill Perry, John Tyson are all eretic?!!

[@Naomi_OB]

Love watching Alisas journey and growing in strength to stand against what MUCH of Christian media currently compromises on. Rosaria is incredible and may more hear her message and advice

[@normasmither202]

Christianity without repentance is not Christianity.

[@Amari9613]

Spot on! I don't get why this is so hard for some people to understand. Let's never forget the part..Go and sin no more.

[@andrewu7198]

Hi Alisa, Preston Sprinkles has stated that there are many inaccurate representations of his views and quotes taken out of context. I heard that he has asked you to allow him to respond to those inaccuracies on your show. Have you responded to him?

[@KRashad]

“Homosexuality is the thief hiding in the closet of your own heart to steal your identity.” 😮🔥😮🔥😮🔥😮🔥

[@paulsampson6286]

Bruh is that a climbing wall in your profile picture

[@patricklaporte6453]

WOW! So right on!

[@joelinaalba533]

To steam the purpose and plans for the person, to rob them of true joy and peace because there is no joy and peace in such life style, because there is no blessings on the person who practice it. Every sin put ubder the blood of Yeshua, by repentance and confession is forgiving, but the person has to turn away from it and renounce it, in Yeshua’s name

[@KRashad]

No. Gum Wall. Tourist site in Seattle.@@paulsampson6286

[@patrickmc4851]

Medical Science has had the ability to accurately and affordably test people's sexuality in a lab setting since the 1950s. And in all that time, not one person has ever been able to show that their sexuality changed during the course of their lifetime. Not from gay to straight, not from straight to gay, not even from gay to bisexual. Not through therapeutic means and not through religious means. Also, there have been plenty of studies done on homosexuality - if it was a choice there would be precursors to that choice leading someone to want to be attracted to the same gender or leading them to actually having attraction for the same gender - yet not one study has ever found any precursor or cause.

[@TGBTG7]

Bold, brave and Authentically LOVING truth. May each one of us be willing to count the cost and stand for truth in real love.

[@inYTbio_SiteLINKs2Verses_Bruv]

Nothing brave about this broken and confused woman who scratches the itchy ears of those like yours.

[@djaurm]

Hello. My name is Aurm. On my KZbin channel, you can find my original music that might interest you. You are welcome to use it for FREE in your videos,

[@321kliddle]

Thanks for this, this was excellent. When Rosaria points out that repent is the first imperative of the gospel for a reason, this is very insightful. This implies we all have something to repent from; namely our sin nature. This gets to the root of much of the confusion in our world today which is that the depravity of mankind is not currently understood nor acknowledged as fact. Humanism has moved the lie of the essential goodness of man into our collective belief system. The gospel is no good news to one that does not understand and acknowledge their slavery to sin, their sin sick state.

[@MrGMcAulay]

One of the things I find having to guard against in my faith and walk is running headlong into error driven by zeal. Saul was zealous for God as a Pharisee; in that zeal, he ran headlong into error and persecuted Jesus and the body of Christ. I want to always be prepared to change when the Lord's Spirit speaks to me and says, stop. You are on the wrong path and got ahead of where I was directing you. This is a great conversation, and the key phrase was, 'How do we love people well and stay connected to the prodigals without being indoctrinated. This goes to being in the world but not of it. I find this question roaring to life within the body of Christ.

[@trevorseath7267]

Woah. Rosaria: “There is no way you can be made in the image of God as a lesbian”. That is a striking statement! If the image of God is inherent to what it means to be human, that remark sure seems to dehumanizes gay and lesbian people. And it’s important to note that in context she argues this goes to the level of attraction. She is saying (based in part on Exodus 20:17 which prohibits coveting and James 1:14 -15 which refers to “evil desires” as what she refers to as the “embryonic form of sin”) that sexual attraction to the same gender is sinful and (per her comments on Genesis 1:27) negates the image of God. On the one hand, I hear her saying what most Christians would affirm: sexuality has been damaged, corrupted, made sinful by the rebellion in Eden. Specifically, same-sex sexual desires and acts would not exist apart from the fall. But it’s much more significant to say that a desire can put a person outside the category of being made in God’s image. If she means that none of us as sinners are made in the image of God, that’s a different conversation. I’d still push back there. But she singled out lesbians (and gay men by implication). And that’s very alarming to me. And she’s saying this is true without requiring any same-sex sexual activity. Folks are sinful because of the gender they find attractive sexually. She sets up two categories of temptation - internal & external. External temptations do not make us guilty as sinners. But internal desires that connect in any way to sinful action are the “evil desires” of James 1:14. I’m sure she’s thought about this, but Hebrews 4:14 says Jesus was tempted in every way just as we are. Rosaria asserts here that (and I guess she’s thinking of Jesus’ temptation in the wilderness by Satan) Jesus was only tempted “externally” and never “internally”. I’d agree if we mean by that that Jesus never had an evil desire like James 1:14 talks about. But as a heterosexual male, my basic sexual orientation whereby women are attractive to me must be something different from a “bad desire” toward women. Rosaria is saying that, at the level of interest, homosexual desire is sin. For me, that means that a celibate person who is same-sex attracted is sinning just by existing. Apart from becoming sexually interested in the opposite gender, that individual is sinning. She’s not talking about lust. And she begins by saying that such sin is not consistent with being made in the image of God. A question: since heterosexual sexual activity is only wholesome within marriage, is all interest in the opposite gender apart from one’s spouse sinful since it ultimately points in the direction of sin if taken to its full conclusion? Note here I’m not talking about lust since that’s not the category Rosaria is working with either. I’m asking about heterosexual attraction. Would this make dating wrong since it would involve interest without a commitment to marriage? From what I can tell, encouraging any interest in someone of the opposite sex outside a commitment to marriage would be sinful within Rosaria’s rubric. Or would she say that opposite sex interest is wholesome even when it’s experienced in connection to those who are not (or will not become) one’s spouse and that all manifestations of homosexuality- including interest in the same gender - is categorically different and wholly sinful. And, back to her first point, is outside the image of God. I think she may be saying that. As I said at the beginning: woah.

[@roxanasalazar1234]

Very good break down here.. I listening her argument, specially the 16 minute to 25 or so, two temptations… more than once to see if I understood wrong. But it it not biblical, every temptation comes from inside. What you are saying about the image of God it is a good point .. I hear hard, core Augustine views

[@fishtail1129]

We are all made in the image of God and have been corrupted by sin, the flesh and the devil. Our sin nature is a result of the fall, not our being made in God’s image, or else that means God is sinful. Your response is illogical.

[@trevorseath7267]

@@roxanasalazar1234 she makes an intriguing point in reference to Jesus’ temptation (in the wilderness, Luke 4:1-13 for one account). Clearly the source of that temptation was external to Jesus - the agent is Satan. So, granted, Satan tempts. Peter warns about this in 1 Peter 5:8 & 9, calling on his readers to resist. On the other hand, as Rosaria points out, Scripture talks about temptation “internally” in James 1:14 where the sinner is enticed by “his own evil desire”. Building on these ideas, she develops a logic … if a desire points in the direction of sinful action, it is itself sinful. She also assumes that the essence of a gay identify is the desire for same sex sexual expression. That’s an interesting idea but I’m not sure it holds - for example, and this is a grotesque hypothetical - but would a castrated gay man (and I know she’d reject that identity category outright) cease to be gay simply because he would no longer have a desire for sex? For Rosaria, there’s no room for the concept of “broken” desires. No space for what I’d see as a weakness in the direction of a particular lust. She wants to say people are morally culpable for all of their desires. They are either righteous because, if acted on, they lead to good action or they are sinful because, if acted on, they lead to sin. And since we are morally culpable, we can repent of all sinful desires. It is therefore loving, as far as I can tell, to call folks who are same-sex attracted to repent of that attraction. For me, I’d have a different anthropology: (1) we are all sexually broken because of the fall, (2) in our brokenness, we are inclined towards different lusts / evil desires, and (3) we are called to resist evil desires - which are desires to act out sinfully. We cannot repent of being broken. Instead, we pursue obedience to Jesus in dependence on God’s empowering grace. And God will sanctify us. And when we see Jesus, we will be like Him. Rosaria’s framework seems to put a special weight of sexual brokenness on people who are same sex attracted. Additionally, she’s very concerned about language - labels like “gay” or the use of preferred pronouns - concern her a lot. Interestingly, her interest in language also comes through as she speaks about the importance of calling Preston Sprinkle a heretic and a wolf. But I think her anthropology is suspect since she leaves no room for sexual brokenness over which we have no control.

[@trevorseath7267]

@@fishtail1129 I actually agree with you. But we do not say that, because of the fall, the image of God is erased. And Rosaria says there is no way for a lesbian to be made in God’s image. If I follow what she’s saying correctly, it’s possible to think about a heterosexual sinner differently because at the root heterosexual desires don’t necessarily point to a sinful act. As far as I can tell, Rosaria is arguing that there is no category for a person to be sexually broken in terms of being same-sex attracted and yet live a righteous life. She saying that same-sex attraction - not lust (ie. the desire to have a specific person sexually or the desire to use another person sexually [e.g. by consuming pornography]) - is a morally culpable desire from which a person must repent. That is, in order to stop sinning, the person who is attracted to the same sex must stop having that attraction. Celibacy is not enough and not harbouring lust (as described above) is insufficient. And she asserts that those who would counsel a same sex attracted person that it is sufficient to flee lust and forsake acts of sexual sin is a heretic and a wolf (who is destroying the sheep).

[@roxanasalazar1234]

@@trevorseath7267 Very high bar on her statement for anyone if the desire is sin in itself “But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.” Is temptation a sin? Because of the desire? 15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death. James 1:15 | AMP I always viewed that conceived, no fight, you keep entertaining or fighting your desires… Can a Christian have a temptation ( same) for the rest of their lives? Or ones you have the Holy Spirit and you are new in Him, you conquer all the desires so it is always a different battle? No one that proclaim to be save can have same sex attraction and fight? Or there is this sin and all sin a symptoms of a deeper root like envy?

[@trevorseath7267]

Rosaria does a terrible disservice to Preston Sprinkle as this video approaches the 30 minute mark. Granted, her main disagreement with him is the use of “gay” as an identity. Any inclination toward sexual interest in the same sex for Rosaria is morally culpable and, as she makes clear here (listen to what she says in the interview), if a person is not rid of all sexual attraction to people of the same sex, they are at risk of going to hell. For Rosaria, it is not enough that Preston condemns homosexual lust and behaviour. It’s not enough that he does not affirm gay marriage. He must reject the idea that the inclination toward sexual interest in the same sex is a facet of identity for which the individual is not morally culpable. She rejects the idea of sexual brokenness expressed as same-sex attraction. This raises a question: should a heterosexual person repent of all attraction to the opposite sex apart from the interest in his or her spouse? This would include interest in the opposite sex both before and after marriage. For singles, no sexual attraction to the opposite sex would be permissible. From what I understand from this interview, Rosaria would not admit that comparison because heterosexual interest has a potentially wholesome expression in marriage between a man and woman. While the opposite sex interest must be “managed” and we are called to forsake lust and illicit sexual expression, the fundamental inclination is as God intended at creation. From what I can tell, Rosaria is arguing therefore that the basic interest in the same sex (not lust, action, or same-sex marriage) is a condition for which the individual is morally culpable. She is saying that a person must repent of this inclination or risk God’s judgement in hell. She is moving significantly beyond a mainstream understanding of James 1 here. She is saying that “evil desires” (CSB) of James 1:14 (“lust” in NASB) includes any form of homosexual attraction because she’s arguing backwards from the ultimate direction of where that attraction could lead. Her argument makes much less sense if you’re reading the NASB (where you read “lust” in James 1:14) and is less clear if you read “evil desires” in the CSB or NIV. She is helped by the ESV here where “desires” is the translation. And this goes further. She ties the image of God to heterosexuality. Homosexual interest negates the image of God. She makes the statement at the beginning of the interview. By arguing against any anthropological category of “gay”, Rosaria ends up circling around and condemning people who, without lusting (desiring to have another person in an illicit manner) or acting out, are guilty in her eyes simply because they are inclined toward / attracted to the same sex. And she says that anyone (naming Preston Sprinkle specifically while snidely criticizing his competence as a writer) is a heretic. Does the Bible have a category for “homosexual” as Rosaria is working with? Does the Bible condemn people for their attractions? Or is it lust and illicit sex that are condemned? Can she use one English translation of James 1:14 to condemn people as hell-bound and heretical? I’m not a biblical scholar. But neither is Rosaria. I think her argument is deeply flawed and her bravado is very off putting to me.

[@westyso.cal.8842]

Rosaria isn’t the only authority on the subject that is calling out Sprinkle. Beckett Cook, Christopher Yuan, Robert Gagnon, articulate some well formulated arguments as well. In addition, when one examines the totality of Sprinkle’s work on numerous other hot-button cultural and societal issues, we quickly see that he is quite problematic.

[@TrevorSeath]

@@westyso.cal.8842 That's helpful context. I'm interested to hear significant conversation over the "Side B" proposal and other hot-button cultural & societal issues. That said, I'm more familiar with Preston as an interviewer than a writer. I attended "Exiles in Babylon" (organized by Sprinkle) last year and appreciated much of what was shared. His design is to include diverse perspectives. I think many there found the talks focused on disability particularly helpful and challenging along those lines. One thing I noted on his podcast was how graciously and carefully he responded to Rosaria's strikingly bold claims connected to "pronoun hospitality". While the substance of Preston's positions on various issues is definitely open to critique and debate, I have to say I'm put off by what comes across to me as inflated rhetoric. I do respect, however, that if she believes he's a heretic and a wolf, that it's legitimate for her to say so.

[@westyso.cal.8842]

Unfortunately, the church that hosted the Exiles conference (that you presumably attended) has seen several members (myself included) leave the fellowship. The Exiles conferences had a lot to do with that decision. Biblically orthodox conservative Christians don’t find Sprinkle’s theology to be sound. By inviting the left leaning progressive teachers with their worldly secular liberal views into the church and giving them a platform and audience is a very dangerous move on the part of a church. Godly, loving, shepherding Pastors don’t give an opportunity to the false prophets to spread false teaching and bad doctrine. The “disability” speakers were probably fine, it’s the CRT topic the previous year that made everyone upset, I suspect. All one has to do is spend a few hours doing a deep dive into many of Sprinkle’ guests and then draw your own conclusions.

[@fivefamily5820]

I think we have been seriously impacted by the cultural jamming of homosexuality as normal, so it is hard to seperate it in our minds as something "sinful" even if we don't act on it. Try, as a thought experiment, substituting someone who struggles with the unnatural sexual attraction to children and see if you would think the same, that it isn't a problem so long as you don't act on it, or that it would be OK to identify as a pedophile who resists acting on it. Is that healthy? You may find yourseld experiencing the revulsion to such a notion that most people experienced to the notion of accepting homosexuality only 30 or 40 years ago before movies, music, and literature began jamming homosexuality. We, even in the church, have in many ways been brainwashed by our culture into a sympathetic view of something we once had a natural revulsion towards, and once would have easily understood was something to be resisted at the first internal temptaion.

[@paulstone8900]

@@westyso.cal.8842Preston has offered to speak to Rosaria regarding how she has misrepresented him (and continues to do so) but she continues to push a false narrative regarding his positions.

[@susanmccoy1992]

Thank you Alisa and Rosaria for speaking the truth! As believers in this fallen world, we need to know how to respond to this issue. Looking forward to reading this book. God bless you both♥

[@jay144k]

I am not done listening to this yet, so far there has been a lot of good, but I must comment on something that she got totally wrong. Temptation to sin is not sin. The reason I must emphasize this is because if the temptation to sin is sin then Jesus sinned. While coveting is not an action that everyone can see, it is not simply a temptation to have what someone else has. It is active in the person's mind. It is the same way with homosexuality. You don't have to act upon it for it to be a sin, but it is not a sin just to be tempted.

[@jay144k]

I just heard her explanation, but I would like a Bible passage to go with it.

[@patricedenis42]

I think you don't get or Heard it , she Said Jésus had tempted externally that's means satan tries to put temptation outside to inside Jésus and Jésus sent him away. The lesbian or gay and even other sin it becomes inside your mind ,travels to your mind to your body and then you 're finally concreted and finally take pleasure. That's why you want to get rid of sin and you have at first change your mind by interacting différently the way you feel,see and embrace the outside World by putting a Shield on your mind. I'm a former porn addict and i tell you how i escape my sin

[@machellovelivelife658]

Saying you have "Same sex attraction" is like someone saying I have or had a porn addiction. You're not making an identity, you're exposing the specifics of your fallen nature to hopefully create an environment for others to also share where they are struggling.

[@RandomGuy-sn3ne]

That's dumb as hell make a comparison like this. People are born gay and if you think it's a choice then you should ask yourself this, why do some gay Christians choose celibacy? I mean if being gay is a choice then obviously they would just choose to quit being gay, this isn't rocket science use your brain. And I have to be honest your statement about porn addiction makes me laugh so hard, because it's a known fact that the biggest consumers of porn are conservative Christians. So there is clearly a disconnect somewhere with conservatives.

[@amany_abuj]

How is same sex attraction as bad as addiction, logically. How does it have bad affects on you and others.

[@roxanasalazar1234]

I agreed about marriage is One man One woman and repenting is something that a follower of Jesus does, homosexually like any other sexual sin has no room in God’s kingdom. We can lovely build each other’s by telling one another about our new creation in Christ. But some probably will fight with this temptation more than onces. Our personalities and process can look different. The semi Pelagian argument was brought up, we can talk about determinism doctrine too?. The two temptation explanation, minutes 19 was confusing if I undertook correct , two kind of temptations, the external, you can repent, the embryo one you can’t it is sin, James 1:14 don’t mentioned this two as far as I can see…open to explanation The bible said every temptation comes from within us… About Preston, Very unkind remarkers about ihis paragraph, how bad his skills are, I called that proudness, it was no need to mentioned that, writing wasn’t the topic.😢 I’ll be checking the other side, specially Preston to make an informed reviewed

[@roxanasalazar1234]

@Quint-ib4nf is that address to me?

[@RandomGuy-sn3ne]

You are wrong one man can have one wife or many wives, there are plenty of examples of this throughout the Bible. The doctrine of monogamy is not even in the Bible, it's just some later Christendom false doctrine.

[@meanman6992]

As in denying your own desires out of a loving obedience to God, sure. But as in actively practicing and engaging in a homosexual relationship, fantasies etc…. I don’t see how. One is a person who has a desire that he or she recognizes is wrong, and choosing not to act on it, the other usually tries to figure out a way to ignore scripture and justifying it, which says a lot about where they’re really at. To anyone who wants to want not to give in and wants to want to obey, been there with addiction, hardest thing I have ever done in my life but when I could go no further on my own in obedience and was at the point of a mental breakdown, I called on the only one that could help as I refused to give in, and you know what, He showed up. 1 Corinthians 10:13 13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. That scripture helped me tremendously, if what I said above applies to you, don’t give up and don’t give in. Choose wisely and don’t let your flesh control you, control it! That’s an act of repentance and obedience, continuing to do that over time as you read and study his word (not the same thing) you will learn more about the one you seek a relationship with and as you do so you’ll most likely want to align your heart and desires more desires with his.

[@davidsilic8603]

Very thought provoking discussion. As a casual follower of Preston Sprinkle who generally finds him very thoughtful and careful on these issues. Alisa I wonder if you would consider having Preston on to discuss side B etc. and perhaps get perhaps a different perspective/ perhaps some further context on some of the quotes from his book.

[@paulstone8900]

What is sad (and some might argue sinfully deceptive) is Rosaria left out or skipped over clear statements of Preston in the quotes that clarified her concerns. It is disheartening neither Rosaria nor Alisa have agreed to discuss these matters openly with Preston when he has offered to engage in this talk for the good of the body of Christ.

[@frugalminimalist4502]

I'm still listening to the podcast and you're about to go into the conversation about side B, but I wanted to give my two cents on it, as a former side B person. At first I used to think it was the answer to my prayers. I wanted fellowship with gay men, but I couldn't get it from going to the clubs or hook ups. I tried online affinity groups and I just couldn't connect. When I found out about GCN, I was so excited to learn more. When I started seeing that the side A world was pretty much the gay community, but with "fear of God", it left me wanting more. I then learned about side B and how it helps a biblical perspective on marriage and sex. I was so enthralled and wanted to belong. I was part of online groups and gatherings that happened in a one on one and group level. We were all men and women (keep that in mind) from all religions that loved God and wanted to create long lasting friendships. Then around 2018, more and more people started acknowledging tland defending being identified as queer, gay Christian, pride month, rainbow flags, etc. I started becoming slightly uncomfortable. I then wanted to leave the movement, but I was enchanted by the concept of celibate partnerships. You mean I can have "someone" and not worry about sex or about weddings and marriage because we both stand on the same ground? You mean I can cuddle with someone without needing to worry about sexual temptation? I could see interest in many, especially new side b people. I tried a couple of times to have a committed friendship and it would go haywire. Right away, lust, insecurity, and desire for more kicked in. Many guys have fallen to temptation because they toy with the idea of cuddling, sometimes naked, kissing, etc. I fell for temptation along with another person and we felt guilty, but kept going. Ultimately, I thought it was best to end it for their sake and mine. As the years continued, some of the online communities began affirming gender non conforming people, pronouns, etc. I checked in with a friend recently and the groups she is a part of are just a cesspool of progressive thoughts. One more thing I want to bring up is the fact that this movement is just a stepping stone for people to become side A "gay Christians" or people that just become agnostic because they rather follow the flesh than God. I was witness to many people using these groups as their savior and their mental health counsel. Many people came into these groups broken and needing healing, but expecting Christians to heal them, instead of Christ. Some people in this movement suffer depression, can be narcissists, and focus more on the struggle of satisfying their carnal desires. They like to be in that rot and even if they are given words of encouragement, want to stay down and only receive words of pity because it makes them feel seen. It also doesn't help there's a group where you have to pay at least five dollars a month to be part of their social media accounts and if you don't, you get disconnected and people don't really engage with you. Very cultish.

[@chaddonal4331]

Wow. Thank you for sharing from the trenches of experience.

[@sharonmacdonald4163]

I had no idea people in that following were feeling this way! When my son first came out I watched Matthew Vine and GCN and hoped my son would join them, but being in University, he left his childhood faith altogether, ffwd 13 years, he’s a med DR and engaged to his boyfriend to be married this summer and my husband and I are at odds about attending their destination wedding, with EVERYONE but (us and our daughter and her family) being very WOKE…

[@lkmac5949]

As Christians, I am wondering when we will start to acknowledge the hearts cry of the parents and grandparents in these situations. We had so much to say in podcasts throughout YT about Alistair and the error of his ways, but we never thought twice (at least I didn't hear it) about that grandmother who was seeking help. Could you imagine how she felt knowing the firestorm it started when her heart was hurting seeking direction while trying to obey God. I bet she will probably not want to ever seek help again. Also, it is so easy to say don't go to a gay wedding when it is not your child or grandchild. Unless you are walking through it, no one will understand the challenge of balancing your love of your child and love of Jesus with wanting to make the right decisions in accordance with scriptures. The guilt is also harder to let go of wondering what you did wrong as a parent while praying for their salvation but not wanting to reject them at the same time. Because when we are all in sin, we don't see it as that as we are blinded, so we see rejection rather than the message trying to be conveyed. Be thankful you don't have to deal with it personally, and if you do and were able to make a clear decision on it, then be thankful for that as well. But can we please acknowledge the people behind the debate (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. and esp the children) and show mercy and grace to all. (Also not directing it to you both but in general as I have heard this topic on other podcasts whose messages were not as nicely delivered.)

[@coco31854]

Thanks for saying this. I'm not in this situation but have friends who are. It's heartbreaking and I would love to hear more helpful podcasts for the parents and grandparents.

[@mrs.garcia6978]

You choose Jesus nmw. He said he came to put mother against daughter and father against son, to cause division. Luke 12. That’s what we need to tell our friends etc in these situations and to pastor Begg as well.

[@gtf5392]

I think we all felt for the grandmother in that situation. It appeared she knew in her heart the right thing to do was to not attend the wedding, and she was looking for that backup from her pastor from a biblical perspective. Instead he gave the opposite counsel which he admitted was more from a grandfatherly perspective and desire to preserve the relationship rather than going to God’s word in prayer and meditation. That’s why many of us were so concerned about it because we think of all the parents, grandparents, etc. who will be faced with similar situations and may be tempted to compromise out of fear, guilt, a desire to protect the relationship, and other reasons. If our pastors can’t stand on God’s word and advise that loving thing to do isn’t always to please the world but please Jesus, then those people may feel the need to compromise as well. And before you know it, we all become fuzzier on where the truth rests. Catering to the world will only weaken our message to those loved ones as they won’t see a need to seek the Savior if they think there’s nothing to be saved from.

[@loiscarteaux9389]

As a mom in this situation all Alistair Begg did was give ammunition for those to use against us who are standing biblically in this issue. The scripture from Mathew 10 is so helpful Jesus comes first. When we had the conversation with our child we were loving and firm. One doesn't need to be nasty in speaking truth. We pray constantly for salvation for her. I know all of us have given wrong counsel but when the,Holy Spirit convicts us we must repent and make right. So pray for repentance for Alistair Begg, until them he is not someone trustworthy.

[@kmsongbird]

My younger sister had an affair in HS with the band director who divorced his pregnant wife to have my sister move in with him after graduation, and they asked me to sing for their wedding. My pastor at college affirmed with me that in this case I was right in refusing to even attend. But my elder sister's husband was a young, on fire minister who had had a hand in my coming to faith, and he disagreed; in fact he stood up for them and helped perform the "ceremony", which falsely helped my younger sister feel that God had approved of this marriage. I not only was pressured to sing, I was a bridesmaid. I expressed my concern and disapproval to my aunt, with whom at the time I had felt quite close, and she never spoke to me again, citing Christian bigotry on my part. My sister got 30 rocky years out of this marriage before he did the same to her as he did to his first wife. My witness was compromised and left me super confused. My brother-in-law the minister went on to have a powerful ministry but I believe he was wrong to advise me (a baby Christian) to stand with my sister for this marriage. She is slowly surrendering to Christ at 60 yrs old but it sure is hard to repent of this relationship she worshipped instead of God at her most impressionable. This is no different from what people go through with blessing or boycotting homosexual unions among their loved ones. Sin is sin. God calls us to make the hard choices and it's still super hard for me today to stand firm against stuff like this in spite of my belief in God's very good and perfect commands.

[@JB-kl4pn]

I have a great deal of respect for both of these women and I appreciate each of their ministries. I do have a question about being made in the image of God. In Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, he writes "Every single human being, no matter how much the image of God is marred by sin, or illness, or weakness, or age, or any other disability, still has the status of being in God’s image and therefore must be treated with the dignity and respect that is due to God’s image-bearer. This has profound implications for our conduct toward others. It means that people of every race deserve equal dignity and rights. It means that elderly people … and children yet unborn deserve full protection and honor as human beings.” (p.450) So I wanted to ask for clarification with Dr. Butterfield about her view that people who practice homosexual sin are not made in the image of God, or perhaps I misunderstand her statements on this. Thank you both for serving the Lord in such meaningful and profound ways. Your work is a blessing to all of us.

[@alisachilders]

My understanding is that Rosaria was not denying that every human is made in the image of God, but rather, that the image of God in every human is rooted in their biological sex (Genesis 1:27). So, it would be incorrect to say that "God made me in his image AS a lesbian/gay person."

[@JB-kl4pn]

Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification.

[@jourdan4am]

@@JB-kl4pn I don't get it. The gay and lesbian sexual orientation has nothing to do with biological sex. So, if a person identifies as gay, they're not identifying as the opposite gender and making null and void the image of God. Am I missing something?

[@845karolewithak]

Thank you for this very relevant interview. The battle continues to be over the Word - did God really say? Never affirm a lie.

[@qwerty-so6ml]

Like the LIE that you are made in the image of God. Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).

[@Janevelyn]

Genesis 1:27: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”

[@kaypay9]

@@qwerty-so6ml. You need help, praying for you.

[@41093AnthonyB]

I love Rosaria and have been so thankful for her testimony and her willingness to repent of using preferred pronouns. I am a man who repented of homosexual sin, have been married for 36 years, have 11 children and expecting our 31st grandchild. I am GRAVELY concerned about Preston Sprinkle, Revoice and this whole "Side B" Christianity. However, I am having some difficulty understanding the viewpoints of a few others who seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum. When we talk about external vs. internal temptation, how do we differentiate? Potiphar's wife would not have been a temptation if Joseph had not had some level of attraction toward another man's wife. Otherwise, it would not have even been tempting to lie with her. To this day, I can still be tempted at times with homosexual sin. Just like Joseph and just like Paul's admonition, I "flee youthful lusts". Are you saying that if a person is even temnpted, that he or she is still living in sin? There are no other sins that we hold to that level. I have heard that when a man lusts after a woman, that is a desire that can be rightfully fulfilled. That is not true. It will NEVER be right to lust after a woman who is not your wife. Ever. And even then, it should be an attraction born out of the desire of a deep one flesh union. Not lust. I heard of a church group that disqualifies men from ministry if they have ever even been TEMPTED by homosexual sin. Yet they regularly hire men who battle with temptation toward pornography. And if the studies are accurate (who knows it they are or not!), a vast majority of ministers do struggle with a temptation toward porn. Yet if this one man who maybe once in a long while is tempted by homosexual sin, resists it and takes that door of escape, then he is disqualified. I guess my question for Rosaria is, what is the difference between indwelling sin of homosexuality and still being tempted at times by homosexual sin? I'm not challenging, I sincerely want to know. I love Rosaria, Becket Cook, and Christopher Yuan. I used to use the SSA terminology. In the last year, I have been calling it past homosexual sin.

[@The-Doubters-Diary]

I like the sound of crickets to your question. I guess it's too logical.🤨

[@nerychristian]

I haven't heard of any church saying that you can't serve in ministry if you have ever been tempted by homosexual desires. I think most churches just want people who have repented of their sins and demonstrate the fruit of the spirit in their lives. I think both types of sin are wrong. Ultimately, one should seek God's counsel when they are interested in serving in the church. Another factor is technology. Now that everything is posted on the internet, would you be comfortable being in a church where the pastor used to be a porn star? Probably not. Even if he truly repented, people would still be able to see his videos online. It would be too much of a distraction for the church.

[@EricCare1]

It's only been 3 days and over 300 comments, plus it is not her KZbin channel

[@Jaue-in8hd]

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:21‭-‬22‬ ‭NIV‬‬ [21] “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ [22] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. Sin, and not just that of sexual nature, is impossible to refrain from. Regardless of faith, everyone sins everyday, either through actions or thoughts. Elijah was tempted to suicide. Even a prophet like him was tempted, and he talked to God, did miracles and prophesied and yet still sinned. I think Rosaria wanted people to acknowledge that they are sinning, and repent. Like a cry of warning for people, rather than just condemnation. And my personal thoughts about your question: Internal temptation is our inability to not sin, through the simple act of thinking. It is impossible to control what we think, and the moment we even recognize temptation in our minds, we already had the thought, and thus sinned. On the other hand, Jesus is God. He can control his thoughts and doesn't even need to control because his never even inches to sin. Indwelling sin and temptation, to me, is the same. But I'd like to point out that sanctification leads us away from sin, and if God wills it, we will no longer sin even while we live. Enoch would be a great example. Im sorry if my writing is frustrating to understand, english is my second language and I'm still very young and unwise. I just wanted to give some help for your question and wrote some stuff that immediately came to my mind. I truly hope you find a more adequate answer from someone more qualified like a pastor, and not misunderstand God from my comment!

[@nerychristian]

Every man, and woman, is occasionally tempted by sexual desire. The question is, when those thoughts cross your mind, do you recognize it as evil, and focus your thoughts on other things? If you are able to recognize temptation, and flee from it, then you are no different than any other God fearing person. I don't think that should disqualify you from serving God. The most important quality in a minister is being a man of prayer, who has learned to cling to Jesus at all times. And also guiding your choices and your teaching by the light of God's truth.

[@clarkemorledge2398]

Alisa: I greatly appreciate your work, yet I would strongly encourage you to speak with Preston Sprinkle regarding Rosaria's critique of his book. Rosaria has a wonderful testimony, but in light of Preston's recent response video, it would appear that Rosaria is not understanding Preston's position accurately. May the Lord continue to bless your ministry, Alisa. Yet my concern is that this rift between Rosaria and Preston, if left unhealed, will cause more harm than good.

[@laurenh19]

Came here to say something very similar! I’m honestly concerned about Rosaria’s gross misrepresentation of Preston’s work. I knew she had critiques and had called him a heretic at some point, which was already a little mind blowing. After listening to this interview, I’m more concerned. Rosaria cherry picked multiple sentences and took them out of context. She also misrepresented the Exiles conference. I don’t know Preston personally, but from what I can tell he is a humble and intentional communicator and biblical scholar. I respect his humility and integrity. So my respect for Rosaria drops when I hear her call him a heretic while actively misrepresenting him. I question sitting under her teaching because of how she has handled her critiques of him. Not THAT she has critiques, but her behavior and actions in light of those critiques. Alisa, I hope you give Preston an opportunity to clarify his actual views at some point.

[@aaronmichaels3031]

If there is anyone tunning in and you are LGBTQ, they are against it, from min 1, so skip and ignore, there is no grace in this video and grace makes all things possible, faith makes things possible, and love, love covers sins. Jesus died for sinners, this is a trustworthy saying! Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe! Peace and wake up!

[@paulstone8900]

The comments regarding Preston Sprinkle are not only misleading but blatantly false at times. Preston has offered to speak directly to both Rosaria and Alisa to address their comments and concerns. It is a lack of integrity to push a false narrative and then refuse to engage a fellow believer against whom the accusations have been made. More repentance needs to take place.

[@wnorwood1]

Preston did a pretty good response and rebuttal to this video that is worth listening to if you want a more accurate representation of what he believes.

[@dejayne8246]

Such a good episode. I love the train analogy!

[@gigimarch647]

In the Bible God repents just as much as man (Gen 6:6, Ex 32:14, Psalm 135:14) Your use of the term repentance in this show is NOT the way it’s used in the Bible. Repentance in the Bible is NOT turning from sin or being sorry for sin. When God repents in Genesis that He made mankind, He is NOT repenting of sin as your use of the word would imply. A review of scripture demonstrates repent means to change your mind so that the previous choice is regretted. The way you talk about repentance in this show makes it a work which diminishes the work of Christ for you.

[@desireefox929]

I am Delivered Saved and Redeemed from this wrong course lifestyle! God is faithful to those who will search for Him. He loves us through it and will part the Red Sea for those who are willing to surrender all areas of our life to Him.

[@kathleenharlow2237]

Thank you so much! So much clarity in these subjects that are dividing the church and confusing so many Christians and non Christians. All three of my kids will now be homeschooling their children and I would've never thought they would do that but they see what is happening in the schools right now and I praise God their eyes were opened. I just shared this with four friends, and will continue to share it with many young families I love the line at the end...you are fighting for the souls of your children. Get them OUT of public schools

[@lafayetteplace3031]

Youre a cult member.

[@johnbrown4568]

Dr. Butterfield is a wonderful source of inspiration.

[@cliffanderson7544]

You can.... But at some point you need to repent and turn from your sin if you would like to spend eternity in heaven!!!

[@Adplussuma.3499]

Excellent! Excellent!! Thank you sisters for your willingness to be brave, loving truth tellers.

[@Seoulflava]

We all have our sins dont we? Thats their sin isnt it? But isnt a sin , a sin, a sin? Yes for me its jacked up, its wrong, its bizarre, its gross. I dont go play along with all the new gender identifying. I think its all lame af. But i dint wish them dead or hurt or any bad on them. Doesnt God say love others? How about them attending church? How is that looked at?

[@BLFulle]

I wish I had a written transcript of this. I'd like to underscore, highlight and reread so many of the words that were shared. I have been guilty of some of these things. I treat people differently case by case. If a person is a non-believer I don't hold them to the standards of someone who says they are Christian and gay. I know I will listen to this again. Thank you.

[@michelemoneywell8765]

A transcript is available. Hit the more text under the video title.

[@deboraharnold8587]

If you go to the footnotes under the video there is a transcript of the whole interview. You could copy and paste it.

[@S1leNtRIP]

You can’t be made in the image of God as a lesbian?!? This is deeply anti-christian and unbiblical. How can you not push back on this Alisa?!?

[@TeenySkeena]

Where is the video of your top 5 books giveaway? I would love to know the 5 books :)

[@janisherbert]

Following

[@robbymcdobby]

Rosaria Butterfield condones violence toward people who do not share her theological convictions in her latest book, "Five Lies Of Our Anti-Christian Age." She applauds the actions of Jenny Geddes, the Scottish woman who threw a stool at a state-sponsored preacher and allegedly launched the English Civil War in the 17th century. She suggests that Jenny Geddes' actions are acceptable. I really like Butterfield's convictions about the seriousness of our sin, and I am a non-affirming evangelical. However, I just don't think I can get behind Butterfield's endorsement of violence. If Butterfield's extreme ideology is followed to its logical conclusion, then things are going to get worse between non-affirming and affirming folks. What should be our response to Butterfield's endorsement of violence?

[@lisareiter5368]

God bless you for this interview. Alistair Begg really disturbed me. Best things Rosario said was there is no gay Christian and to change sports if a school coach comes out.

[@Maranatha-rk7lh]

There are people who fell in love with Jesus, realized the Bible is the word of God and decided to live a celibate life bc they don't yet feel attracted to the opposite sex. And you bash them! I don't get it. Ah, Rosaria is a calvinist. Calvinism is not biblical! God does not cause us to sin and He wants everybody to be saved.

[@michaelkorotkih9713]

God bless you and your ministry, proclaim the truth of the gospel

[@stephenfincher7262]

I was frustrated a fair bit in listening to this interview. While not everything they say off base, I do think they engage in slander and display something of a proud and nit-picky spirit. Dr. Butterfield’s connecting trans* stuff with the sin of envy/covetousness was a connection I never made before. I think there is some merit there, of wanting to reach beyond God’s established boundaries to grab something that doesn’t belong to us and claim it for ourselves. Thought provoking. To say that Sprinkle is a heretic and a “wolf” (stealing from Jesus’ “wolf in sheep’s clothing” language in Matthew 7:15) is slanderous. I have read all three of his books pertaining to sexuality and I have listened a fair bit to his podcast in recent years. Heretic is a strong word. It is a word used to imply that someone has gotten so far off base that they are outside the boundaries of salvation. Further, “wolf in sheep’s clothing” language in Scripture (Matthew 7:15-20) implies that wolves are people who have the fruit of bad character coming out of them. I see the fruit of the Holy Spirit in Sprinkle’s life. If anything, the lack of charity and the dismissiveness Dr. Butterfield has toward his writings, calling them “garbage,” showcases a haughty and condemning spirit. All because he believes people can refer to themselves as gay in reference to acknowledging that they experience same-sex attraction, while not acting on those desires? All because he is a proponent of pronoun hospitality while still affirming a traditional ethic around helping people be at home with their biological sex as God’s will? When did these become the markers of whether someone is a Christian or not? When were these the defining lines of heresy and orthodoxy? It’s ok to disagree over and discuss these things, but to throw such strong labels like “heretic” and “wolf” around what at best are secondary or tertiary concerns promotes unnecessary pain and disunity in the Body of Christ. I agree that leading people into sin or condoning sin is very dangerous, and if Sprinkle was affirming same-sex marriage or condoning transitioning, I wouldn’t disagree with her labels. But he’s not doing these things. I think the sin of meanness is at work here. Meanness is not “being prophetic” or “just telling the truth.” I think Paul’s counsel in 2 Tim. 2:23-26 about not getting into foolish arguments and being able to gently instruct people is applicable here. There is unnecessary harshness here. I don’t think Dr. Butterfield presents Sprinkle fairly in the quote she reads. Sprinkle in *People To Be Loved* and *What Does the Bible Say About Same-Sex Marriage* works pretty hard to push conservative Christians to examine whether they are being selective/hypocritical in the sins they are calling out, and to examine whether they can have an engaging relational posture toward LGBTQ people. Sprinkle believes same-sex marriage and sex is sinful and is seeking to call people to repent in Christ through sharing grace and truth with them, and a Scripture he often likes to quote is Romans 2:4, that God’s kindness is intended to lead us to repentance. I think *What Does the Bible Say About Same-Sex Marriage* is an excellent book for someone who wants to dive into the LGBT conversation. Sprinkle is someone who is familiar with the writings and arguments of most all affirming scholars, and he engages them and critiques them winsomely. It is not garbage. As a pastor I have recommended and benefitted from his writings. Preston Sprinkle and Andy Stanley are not in the same place and don’t have the same approach to these issues. Sprinkle had a podcast episode where he offered reflections on Stanley’s Unconditional conference, with some appreciations and some critiques. I think Stanley has slipped up in some ways over how he has spoken about these things. I didn't appreciate the implied critique of Asbury Seminary & University, or toward what God was doing in the Asbury Revival because celibate gay Christians were involved in leading worship. I graduated from the Seminary and was present at the revival. Jesus ministered to my wife and I deeply during a difficult season in that time. I think what Dr. Butterfield says about temptation is confused. I don’t think we can neatly divide temptation into “internal” and “external” categories, with “internal” temptations being bad purely by experiencing them, but “external” being ok to experience as long as you resist them (correct me if I’m not presenting what she says fairly?). It seems to me internal and external temptations usually come together. What was it that made Jesus ask the Father to let the cup pass from him? Surely he internally felt the pressure and pain of what he was about to go through, so he entertained the possibility of seeking relief from it? It also seems like she focuses on same-sex desire as inward sin, but doesn’t say anything about opposite-sex desire for someone who is not a person’s spouse. Do I need to renounce my straightness to be truly defined by Christ? Or am I just trying to accurately describe how I experience the world and my sexuality? I don’t think we should ding people who are describing what they feel, how they experience the world and their sexuality. People are going to feel and be pulled in a lot of different directions. I think part of resisting temptation is being able to talk about that with trusted people while praying, striving, and seeking to live a holy life for the Lord. Such open sharing helps us mortify sin and resist temptation, while being unable to talk about it at all probably makes it harder to resist. Lord, save us from unnecessary fights and nit-picking. Just my two cents. Grace and peace to all.

[@Grokford]

"Dr. Butterfield’s connecting trans* stuff with the sin of envy/covetousness was a connection I never made before. I think there is some merit there, of wanting to reach beyond God’s established boundaries to grab something that doesn’t belong to us and claim it for ourselves. Thought provoking." I was actually relatively unimpressed by that idea. I don't think that it's "envy" for someone to want to dye their hair, I don't think it's envy for someone to want a mole removed. Being trans is just one form of people seeking peace and self-expression. It's all stuff that's already possible, so I don't see any harm. And besides, a lot of our fashion and style is informed by the people around us, men with short shorts and long hair was relatively common in the '70s. I can't think of any way to accurately draw a limit of what is and is not acceptable. "If anything, the lack of charity and the dismissiveness Dr. Butterfield has toward his writings, calling them “garbage,” showcases a haughty and condemning spirit." Yeah, I can't imagine that here ministry to Queer people sounds much better, Sometimes it doesn't matter what you say if you make jackass of yourself in the process. "All because he believes people can refer to themselves as gay in reference to acknowledging that they experience same-sex attraction, " I find it especially odd and hypocritical that they're targeting Queer celibates. Those are the people doing everything that they're "supposed" to do to be accepted in the church and then it's still not enough, they're not even allowed to mention it. I consistently get this impression from supposedly concerned people on this issue. They'll hammer into the tiniest little thing that Queer people do like "attitude" and meanwhile let full-blown abuse happen right under their noses. I can't imagine that they'd be getting onto people for describing themselves as divorced, or as alcoholics. It really seems like what they're actually concerned about is making anything Queer disappear, to the point where they can't even acknowledge it. "while still affirming a traditional ethic around helping people be at home with their biological sex as God’s will?" Well how do we know that? What changes are acceptable and what changes are "contrary to God's will" It bears an uncomfortable ressemblance to the so-called Christian scientists who refuse medical care because they think that if God wants them to die then they should. Why shouldn't a person change their body to their liking? At what point does intervention become immoral? And why? "It’s ok to disagree over and discuss these things, but to throw such strong labels like “heretic” " I'd agree with you here, the idea that all Christians should or could agree on everything is odd to me, Christian history has been characterized by disagreement. "I think What Does the Bible Say About Same-Sex Marriage is an excellent book for someone who wants to dive into the LGBT conversation." I think that's a very provocative title given how little the Bible talks about same-sex marriage. "I think what Dr. Butterfield says about temptation is confused. I don’t think we can neatly divide temptation into “internal” and “external” categories, with “internal” temptations being bad purely by experiencing them, but “external” being ok to experience as long as you resist them" Yeah, I'd agree that that's pretty insane. If you don't feel a temptation internal then it's not much of a temptation, sure you can have external prompts for temptation or desire but I'm inclined to think that it starts internally. A hamburger might remind you that you're hungry but it didn't make you hungry. I'm also of the mind that involuntary emotions and desires are amoral. "It also seems like she focuses on same-sex desire as inward sin, but doesn’t say anything about opposite-sex desire for someone who is not a person’s spouse. Do I need to renounce my straightness to be truly defined by Christ?" It does seem hypocritical yeah, "I don’t think we should ding people who are describing what they feel, how they experience the world and their sexuality. " One of the reasons that I suspect that Ms. Butterfield's lesbian path is at least exaggerated. "Lord, save us from unnecessary fights and nit-picking." Amen.

[@LoudandClearChastity]

Lots of words! Try being brief and succinct.

[@LoudandClearChastity]

​@@Grokfordtry being brief and original in your thinking. Looks like a crappy "cut and paste"😔

[@Grokford]

@@LoudandClearChastity I'm afraid that there is no writing technique yet invented which can outmaneuver disinterest.

[@kimsteinke713]

According to Britannica, scribes and Pharisees were two distinct groups in the 1st century. Scribes were legal experts who could draft legal documents, such as contracts for marriage, divorce, loans, and more. Pharisees were a strict Jewish religious sect who believed they were righteous and looked down on others. Many Pharisees were public teachers.

[@deevincent8852]

allowing people who were openly living habitually sinful lives to lead worship isn't something new- it's been going on for decades- apparently, some churches and organizations are more concerned with getting the most musically talented people up front than they are about the character of the individuals- back in the early 80s, when there was agreement even in the ,ost liberal of the mainline denoms that all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman was sin, it was well known thrioughout the community that there was an openly and practicing gay man playing piano and leading worship in a local UMC church- when pastors from nearby local churches went to the pastor of the UMC and asked him about it he said that he knew he was a practicing homosexual but he chose "the best man for the job" - he hired him because he had more musical knowledge and could play the piano better than any of the other candidates - confronting the pastor did no good- though he knew it was wrong, he continued to let the man lead worship anyway, because he didn't want to risk havng to put someone who had a heart for God but was not a professional musician up front...

[@trevorseath7267]

I’ve made a much longer comment on this convo. But she’s saying that victory and repentance is only complete when the desire - not lust, but the sexual interest that precedes it - is repented of and erased. Is that what the Bible says about same-sex sexuality? She asserts that calling someone gay is anthropology (it’s an identity statement). I would say that her assertions are philosophical rather than biblical. She is making logical inferences and extending beyond Scripture. She is making a category of morally culpable sin that comes before lust. The basic attraction must be repented of. The philosophy that she’s working out points to a question - is she basically calling for conversion therapy in some form? Is she taking on board all that’s been demonstrated about efforts to erase same-sex interest?

[@billybakey9139]

Can you be an adulterous Christian? Confession and Repentance. That's for all of us!

[@Longe]

What a strange video! So those who leave a sinful lifestyle, but who are still tempted by the sin they left are not saved? That would include ALL of us to some degree!

[@lilpoohbear653]

we all struggle with temptation till the moment we take our last breath...anyone who says any different is a liar. However, I will say that as we grow in Christ, we renew our mind with reading, and knowing the Word of God, the Bible and prayer...we do get stronger against those temptations! I have been born again for over 38 years and things that tempted me when I was 25, no longer really effect me...however, if we do not watch we think, what we look at and what we involve oursleves with...we can fall back into old habits

[@PJDMC5306]

​@Rileyed Lust and Temptation are not the same thing. One is a sin, the other is not. One we overcome, the other we don't. Sometimes God takes it away. Sometimes he doesn't.

[@Sno2Getti]

Repent and Believe.

[@Rileyed]

@@PJDMC5306 flesh lusts to envy…….Spirit lives by faith. When we walk in the spirit we do not Lust. When we Lust we are in the flesh. The way of escape. Romans 8. The Law of liberty from SIN. I’m not talking about desiring food or sex. We always have a flesh. To envy tech means to be unsatisfied. Discontent. That’s the main issue we have. But then there is the promise of self control and that we would take dominion and not be enslaved anymore to the desires of food and sex etc.

[@Longe]

Believe in what? Catholicism or Jesus?@@Sno2Getti

[@tray1813]

The bible says not to wear gold, broided hair or expensive clothes. If people can wear this and be Christian, your good.🤗💓

[@amany_abuj]

frrr

[@FollowYeshua-ww4mz]

The Word of God, our only roadmap. No compromise. We need wisdom from God in dealing lovingly with people who are stuck in such things. Good to listen to your conversation!

[@ryantosh4758]

Alisa, you should speak privately with Preston Sprinkle. Im going to assume, in good faith, that you didn’t realize that Rosario was blatantly misquoting his book to distort his position.

[@kimsteinke713]

Why would Christ be divided? that makes absolutely no sense Rosario. she twists the Bible into a pretzel. I've been reading the Bible all my life, I'm 63. but the things she does to the Bible is cultish watch her and learn what not to do. I'm Kim in Texas. I'm also a Democrat and I was born gay. And I'm also a Christian. Things that y'all say cannot exist, coexist just fine in me thank you. And we all see thru different lenses. But the things that I hear y'all say about me and my kind it's offensive it's derogatory, it's dehumanizing, it's a child abuse. I don't come at you like that. I don't call you a demon. you call me a 👿 You say we're from Satan. we would never do that. I started praying for my bigoted folks when I was 5 years old. The stories we could tell. the problem is y'all never heard our testimonies so y'all are fragmented. maybe just maybe 🙏😇 5:20 5:20

[@bryanmckaig]

Rosaria may be a writing professor, but she is demonstrating a shocking failure to read well. She finds what she expects to find in Preston’s book, despite his overwhelming message that is the opposite of what she claims it is. This drastic lumping together of people who don’t agree with each other (Preston Sprinkle with “Side B”) and acting like they are the same is atrocious. She even skips part of the quote from Preston’s book that directly contradicts her reading of it. Rosaria: either talk to Preston publicly, or stop talking about him.

[@Grokford]

And yet people trust her opinion of the Bible... Weird. I'll admit that from some of the speeches she's read, I'm also having a hard time believing that she has a doctorate in English.

[@chaddonal4331]

Dear Rosario: you are conflating temptation (which left unrestrained and unrejected will lead to sin) with sin itself. You are placing on people a weight more severe than Scripture does. You get there through deductive reasoning that you presume to be scriptural (via Augustine’s view of original sin). But as the view of original sin is itself partly unbiblical (or a misunderstanding and misinterpretation on Augustine’s part), your application in this arena is flawed. There exists a category between calling temptation sin and embracing temptation (and truly sinning). You are either not seeing or not acknowledging this space where one can be tempted and reject that temptation. This corresponds with a time gap (even if only momentary) where one experiences temptation (a setup for sin, but not actual sin), and an opportunity to turn away (reject the temptation). Or one can feed the temptation with sinful thoughts or engage the sinful activity. These are distinguishable steps. So, James is clearer than you suspect. Temptation (which is not itself sin) gives way to (actual) sin (of activity or of the heart), which leads to death. That is James’ accurate point. It doesn’t need to be improved or made more severe. We have no scripture that tells us that “temptation is embryonic sin”. That is conjecture; and in the area of conjecture and speculation we must hold tentative concepts very lightly. You are, in this matter, too confident in what you suspect, and Scripture does not speak with the clarity you are asserting.

[@ginadawn9685]

Actually the law of the old testament describes sin. When Jesus came and spoke in the new testament he very clearly said "do not even think about it."

[@chaddonal4331]

@@ginadawn9685 So you have made a general statement that is true. And you have supposed a quotation from Jesus for something he never actually said. But you haven’t addressed at all the distinction I made. I’m not sure what your purpose was. Rosaria (whom I respect a lot) has overstepped here.

[@ginadawn9685]

Both statements were general but i will direct you to 2 new scriptures where Jesus expressly says a thought is sinful. Matt 5:28. I believe Jesus' overall msg to us should be looked at as even stricter than the old testament laws as He in no way came to deny their truths. Mark 7:20-23. Tells us very much to guard our thoughts. Thanks for responding.

[@chaddonal4331]

@@ginadawn9685 Thank you for these verses. I have spent a bit of time with them this morning. A few responses: Yes, Jesus certainly affirmed the standard of the Old Covenant Law toward sin. He did not diminish it. No, Jesus did not make requirements “stricter”. That is a mis-reading of Jesus. Rather, he focused on the heart of the issue. The root of sin always begins internally with our heart’s tainted desires and with unholy and impure thoughts. These depraved inclinations give rise to sinful actions. Jesus is simply making this connection clear. Sinful actions are a manifestation of sinful hearts. (Not a new standard.) Yes, the verses you cite clarify what I have just integrated (paragraph above) of the relationship between sinful thoughts and their corresponding actions. We think sinful thoughts (which are sinful themselves), and then we sometimes also sinfully act upon them. I have edited my initial post to include both facets of sin (I.e. thoughts and actions). Notice, I am not denying that feeding sinful thoughts are sin. What I am saying is that there is space between a temptation that enters my brain and what happens next. If I feed the temptation, then I am sinning. However, if I “flee temptation”, which is what Scripture commands us to do as the very remedy to NOT sin (!), then I have remained pure. I have withstood temptation. This is a ministry of the Holy Spirit within us, revealing itself as the fruit of the Spirit known as self-control. Please understand what Rosaria is asserting, and you are also unwittingly affirming: that the call to exercise the fruit of the spirit of self-control is powerless toward our thoughts, and the commands to flee temptation are impossible. Rather, I am recognizing that the multiple commands to flee temptation and to exercise self-control are actually possible to keep us both from sinning in action and thought when confronted with temptation. This is the fuller biblical view. (Now, you will not hear me call Rosario a heretic for being wrong on this interpretive point. But we do have a responsibility to utilize scripture to correct and admonish teaching that is well-intended but overzealous.)

[@Grokford]

@@ginadawn9685 Not Quite, Jesus never said not to think about it. It's a but of a can of worms, but essentially Jesus seems to be talking about intentional action not involuntary temptation.

[@lizmarsi1034]

Thank you Alisa & Rosario for speaking God’s truth in love ❤

[@Johnburggy]

Being gay is not a persons fault it is for the way a person deals with that & it is between them & God . There seems to be confusion between love & lust & sex. The Bible teaches us on the deeds of this not that it is wicked to love someone of the same gender. Sadly some Churches do not show the love of God & know he understands these people & make them feel excluded. This is very different trans gender & many of these things which are clearly sins.

[@MsQiu-ks8lm]

Thank you for this. Truth hurts but we all need to hear this.

[@carlamartin6006]

The problem is you are interpreting the Bible based on mistranslation and not within context. I challenge you to go beyond your personal bias and dig deeper. Do your homework and view what Jesus was ultimately about. Please stop this HURT! This is why our country is so divided right now. Misunderstood scriptures!

[@sarahnewton2550]

Thank god for you!

[@gerdonnaellis2441]

This was an excellent discussion.

[@glenallen6403]

She is so smart by the way John Owen the Puritan is excellent everyone should listen to his sermons

[@tanyafromjefferson5484]

Thank you, ladies 🙏

[@eugenejoseph7076]

I know my argument against "gay Christian" sounds too simple to defend the biblical view of sexual orientation but, as one who was radically saved and left the homosexual lifestyle after repenting and become a Christ follower in 1985, I came to realize that even if I was born a 'homosexual' the Lord Jesus said you 'must be born again.' Regardless of their endless debates on gender, orientation, inclination, self actualization, or just plain old sinner, YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. If you don't like that argument, your disagreement is not with me, it's with Jesus. Just saying.

[@Grokford]

Born again in Christ, I have neither interest nor moral obligation to be remade in the image of human preferences. God made me Queer. I don't think that was an accident.

[@catsym58]

Thanks for this video ❤🙌

[@ok-qt4kr]

Alisa Childers is works righteousness under coverof "Christian Apologetics" . Like William Lane Craig , Mike Winger & Frank Turek . John 3:16 & Ephesians 2 : 8-9 refute all such resorts to behavioral performance as a metric of one's Everlasting destination .

[@kristyleavitt8007]

Thank you, Alisa and Rosaria!

[@LuckyEucalyptusTree-]

Can you be a saved sinner?

[@jascharl]

Rosaria is great. I’ve seen her on Relatable a few times.

[@aujkalenic4203]

We all see in part and have yet to see clearly.....hence " eyes to see & ears to hear". We all come into the earth believing our distirted form be it reninforced from the mouth of religion or even from opinions of others and don't forget the devil whispers.... And then its like the light comes on and revealation comes in and then we realize that we were made in the image of our Creator,likeness too ! He knew our spirit man before we were in Momma's womb....ponder(selah) all of that for the days ahead......perfect form arises, crap falls off and the journey is real and marvelous ❤🎉❤

[@pams51673]

Amen 🔥 thank you ladies ❤

[@lilacooper7981]

Thank you so much!

[@GodGirl254]

God has gotten me out of a same sex relationship and here in Kenya it's so rampart to find people who identify as Gay and Christian. Which I find an Oxymoron honestly. So yeah there is a lot of garbage coming out of the west on this whole topic of Homosexuality.. Thanks be to God who has also allowed such truthful voices like yours Rosaria. I got your book 'Gospel Comes With a Housekey' for my birthday last year btw.. Thanks Alisa.

[@christystock2734]

Absolutely love this teaching. Second thing though is that so many of us can’t afford these coffees. Not everyone can. It’s sad really.

[@55k3v1n]

The question should be "If you are a Christian should you agree with the Word of God that Jesus used as the sword of the Spirit against Satan (Matt. 4) and conclude it's OK with God that you are living a gay lifestyle?"

[@kkm0202]

I have lost respect for Rosaria. She has a powerful story of God’s intervention in her life that is an encouragement and life changing to many. My biggest problem with this podcast and other public comments I have heard recently is that Rosaria attacks Preston Sprinkle and refuses to have a conversation with him. She excludes parts of his book in a way that misrepresents what it says. Why? How can anyone trust what she is saying when she is unwilling to speak with accuracy. When she judges his writing and uses it as a bad example for her writing class causes me to wonder what her motives are. I do not understand this. I feel like she is playing right into the deceivers hand to cause division within the church. She makes blanket accusations and tosses out hand grenades of judgment of other believers. She is sloppy with her words and accusations.

[@roxanasalazar1234]

You have a free will to do that:) no all speakers resinate with us… Another point if you are reformed, you got the sinful nature from Adam but you need to consider determinist too… if God predetermined everything what that means for this people? Are they free to be free?

[@danielleduncan611]

great interview! Thank you, Alisa! love the new music too :)

[@systemofadownsyndrome7715]

The answer is yes. Every one sins. To exclude them you have to exclude your self.

[@CoreyAnderson-l5y]

Finally someone who understands scripture

[@Sandy-to1vg]

I Corinthians 6:9 has a lot to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@peterpapoutsis496]

No one cares. BTW it would seem the Archbishop of the Church of Greece just confirmed a major protestant position on infant Baptism. As a Greek Orthodox Christian, I do not agree with him, but I have to be honest that he said it. There were other ways to deal with the baptism of gay people's children, but he just conceded to the protestant position.

[@dansaber4427]

the kingdom of God is within you and at hand. Have you ever been there? You can't enter his rest because who you are authentically beds over for who you want to be. Your inner SS relationship with yourself.

[@m.gattus-reinhart845]

Why don't you pick up a 19th century Bible and tell me what it says in Corinthians 6:9. Then compare that to your 20th/21st century Bible. You'll find a difference.

[@OrangeMonkey2112]

No! You can repent of your sin and then become a Christian, but NO! You CAN NOT be a gay Christian. Thanks for the question

[@samwise6479]

Thank you so much for challenging us with Repentance ! This message touches us all.

[@kenpolin1227]

Praise God for the teaching of truth which must prevail in this issue. Righteousness and light cannot be tainted as they are God's nature where Jesus came in earth to propagate. Jesus' profound message is for mankind to repent from all sins. Amen.

[@eurekahope5310]

Timely, indeed.

[@its9429]

I would have been interesting to have had some comment and reflection on the prominent "I'm a Christian Homosexual" life of Spencer Klavan.

[@shaded121]

This is an important topic that’s not being addressed. I’m ministering on the streets in the SF Bay Area where homosexuality is commonly accepted and need to have clarity when dealing with this issue. Up until this podcast I was under the impression that side B Christianity was the only option for homosexuals but I was defining it differently than the way it is presented here. I thought Side B meant one who accepted the fact that homosexuality is sin but needed to not give in to the temptation. Only giving themselves over to a life of celibacy and offering up their thought life as a daily sacrifice could they be actively walking in the Spirit as a disciple of our Lord. I never considered that if certain gay believers held to this, agreeing that it is sin, but still admitted to have the temptations but continually worked towards repentance that they wouldn’t be in good standing. I know as a single man I’ll struggle with my thought life up until I find a wife. Those who have homosexual temptations will never find such a relief outside of complete removal of the temptation. If these temptations never leave are they still saved?

[@juliestewartvideos]

Firstly, nobody but God has the final say on if they are saved. Secondly, there is a lot of gray. Did Jesus condemn Mary or comfort her? Sometimes I don't think we need to be so legalistic. Our identity as Christians is based solely on the grace through Christ Jesus. Let us all be gracious and ask for strength to speak God's truth with love and gentleness and a spirit of discernment. ANY TEMPTATION IS NOT A SIN...it is acting on it that is sinful.

[@juliestewartvideos]

This misses the mark, big time. I appreciate your opinion.

[@shaded121]

@@juliestewartvideos Temptation isn't sin unless it's entertained in the heart. This is clear when Jesus taught that to lust after a woman is to commit adultery. If a man lust after another man he not only commits fornication in the heart but is guilty of homosexuality. I fully believe Jesus' blood covers all sin but to continue in willful sin after the fact is to use grace as a license.

[@Logic807]

I think doing a word search on it and anything related to it answers the question. Homosexuality is one of the signs of the height of depravity that a society succumbs to the evil one However our secret sins if continued and worst still self deception of self righteousness means we are no better or even worst off… I chose the word society deliberately and we as individual sinners are no better. Concerning temptations, no, the model prayer does include lead us not to temptations.

[@shaded121]

@@Logic807 No question that it's sin. I'm trying to understand their problem with the Side B philosophy. They say it's because it doesn't call being a Homosexual a sin. Which I believe is a possible misrepresentation because those I've heard who call themselves Side B say that it is. The one thing I think they make a case for is that Side B adherents still consider themselves naturally homosexual though they've committed to not act on it.

[@PeterPols-r3i]

Great video! Love Rosaria. Went to hear her in Holland Michigan Quite a few years back. Just a personal note on Allistair Begg, My wife and I just loved to listen to him and even went to his church once when in Cleveland. Because of his very foolish advice to the grandmother, we will no longer listen to him. If he can be so wrong about a rather common sense decision, we wonder what other error may be mixed with the good in his preaching! What bothers me the most is the lack of teach-ability and humility when confronted about the error. I pray that the dear man comes to his senses. Thank you for speaking the truth and repenting when wrong,dear sister!

[@brenmanock]

Great analysis both of you.

[@dawick5]

Great interview and video...my first time watching you... however, the adds are a little much. 1 or 2 are ok, but the amount you have makes me question your motives...

[@buffalolifesavers]

Thank you for having Rosaria on. She is such a voice of sanity in a culture gone mad.

[@Grokford]

There are a lot of words that I could use for her, sane is not one of them.

[@rogerknox9147]

Hard to see how the pressure tactics from Side B aren't going to result in more people leaving the church. And unreasoning positions will as Alyssa says create problems. The "left the station" cliche is a kind of shutting down of people with concerns.

[@krismarsh1405]

God’s Word! The only answer!! Yes!!!

[@paulproffitt9253]

Yes, I have been a happy Christian for over 60 years….!

[@hliljan]

Rosaria Butterfield is a gem❤Love her testimony and teaching

[@Grokford]

You're meant to, that's why it was invented.

[@gracenurse3365]

Isn’t Butterfield married to another ex-gay, and they adopted children? (Have they ever had sex??)

[@royhooper8080]

This was really good AND needful for the church.

[@carollawrence464]

No!!!

[@helendeacon7637]

Thank you both. You are speaking the truth in love and in so doing you are strengthening other Christians. My husband and I had to leave a church over issues connected with this- principally bringing in female elders. We witnessed most of a congregation deceived into voting for it. Both of you have helped us understand the underlying root causes and they are indeed heresies. The language is indeed important- it isn't quibbling. Since leaving we have found a God-fearing, truly reformed Presbyterian church and we are so thankful not to be where we were. The categories we think under are crucial here. We must be steeped in the Living Word and dressed in the whole armour of God (Eph 6). Alistair Begg's reasoning was way off and I felt sad at first but that error and lack of public repentance for it has been necessary to teach and caution the rest of us. Christ has commanded us to "Stay Awake" and so faithful Christians must. God bless you both❤💐💐

[@NeilDonald-y5h]

Additionally, can one be a gossiping, greedy, vengeance olanning, malicious Christian who displays the traits of a depraved mind (Romans. 1:28-31)? These traits are so often ignored by teachers and apologists.