All 5ths Tuning - Fantastic!!! (With free PDF)

[@SteveGilson]

Download the PDF from here bit.ly/38JlBpg

[@Amatteus]

Thanks for the pdf... Thanks a lot for sharing your experience as well.

[@psychosewatnu]

I've been doing a hybrid thing lately: 2 fifths and 3 fourths: C2 G2 D3 G3 C4 F4, giving me the range of a 7-string, without having to do big stretches for leads. Can be achieved with a light top, heavy bottom set or a 7-string set, not using one of the middle strings.

[@MrDrTheJniac]

*looks at 8-string intently* My range shall drown out the sun.

[@FreeScience]

Yeah, 8-strings almost seem like an unsolved problem for this tuning. I'm guessing 0.007-0.090 with a 25-35" multiscale neck or something. I think a seven string is the "practical" limit.

[@MrDrTheJniac]

@@FreeScience Agreed. My 8 string has a 26" scale, so I have to use a bass guitar string to get the bottom string tuned to E1 with high enough tension that it does not annoy me. Maybe the Ibanez M80M could do it, but that would probably need pretty slim strings on top, even for someone like me who really likes a pretty meaty tension.

[@MrDrTheJniac]

@Shrimp 1.0 The heavier string needs more tension to vibrate at the same frequency. Picture a basketball held between two springs. If you push the basketball, it will start moving back and forth at a certain frequency. Now, if you replace the basketball with a bowling ball and push it, it will also move back and forth, but at a significantly lower frequency. Now replace the original strings with much beefier strings, and that same bowling ball will oscillate at a higher frequency. So to answer your question, yes, bass strings do provide more tension at the same tuning because they are heavier.

[@Drunken_Hamster]

Time to go 7 string pure 5ths, borther. Low to High = FCGDAEB EDIT: Or, in order to avoid the high B snapping and the low F being floppy (unless you want to spend $2000 plus on a multiscale instrument) just stick to 5 string pure 5ths CGDAE and do a guitar AND a bass up like that, separately.

[@martymarquez68]

You Sir are a true inspiration,. Some of the best info on the internet. Thanx for enhancing the journey..

[@SteveGilson]

Thanks Marty! I appreciate that.

[@RLBscoring]

Finally got a custom set to tune one of my basses in 5ths. Your video is extremely useful! Thank you for putting this together.

[@SteveGilson]

Glad I could help! I still have my Les Paul set up like that :o)

[@ALACGltd]

Balkan accordionist here I also play other instruments. I use all fifth tuning on my guitar. It works for maqams well and Romani melodies ❤ I like seeing your excitement. Thanks for making this video.

[@-k-b-]

Love tuning in 5ths! Especially on bass it's so much fun! I play in low A#, F, C, G. On guitar I play in a similar tuning but I tune the high string down to a 3rd (so A#, F, C, G, D, F), which is what Robert Fripp plays in but a step lower

[@ts4gv]

blood_ _money My all time favorite guitar tuning is like "New Standard" but with a 4th on top instead of a 3rd. Tuned a half step below "New Standard" so I don't break my 1st string. It looks like this: B F# C# G# D# G#. On a twelve string it's absolutely biblical.

[@damien6685]

That looks like an absolute hoot, particularly if other guitarists are trying to work out what on earth your playing. I'll keep this on file, as it will also be handy when the wife asks why I bought another guitar... coz Steve said I should ;-) Good to see the smile back, you were grinning all the way through taping this.

[@SteveGilson]

Thanks Damien, Yes its been fun to explore! (Plus you can definitely tell your wife that as long as she doesn't know where I live!)

[@Poparad]

I've been experimenting with 5ths this past year, too. I started in order to transcribe some of Allan Holdsworth's songs that used 5ths tunings, which he tuned the 1st string to the same E as standard tuning (so a minor 3rd lower than yours). Another advantage to that tuning is the top four strings are the same as a violin (and octave lower) and the inside four strings are the same as a viola (octave lower) or cello, so all of that literature is immediately available to play. The downside is the low F string is even harder to get good sounding and in tune. A multiscale guitar would definitely help that.

[@SteveGilson]

Interesting! I wasn't aware that Holdsworth had experimented with this tuning. Are you able to let me know any songs that used it? Which gauge string are you using for that low F have you found on that's acceptable and fits a standard guitar?

[@Poparad]

@@SteveGilson Of Allan's songs in 5ths, so far I've found "Looking Glass," "Non Brewed Condiment," "Sphere of Innocence," and "Eidolon." Some are on guitar, and some Synthaxe, and some tunes he later reworked for standard tuning. There was a brief while that he played a double neck guitar live with the upper neck in 5th and the bottom in standard. For my string set, I'm using a custom Stringjoy set on a 25.5" scale Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy model: .009 .013 .026w .032 .052 .080 I did have to drill out the 6th string tuner to fit the .080, but the guitar has Sperzel locking tuners which have very small holes in the tuning posts. On a conventional set of tuners, it might fit OK.

[@SteveGilson]

@@Poparad Thanks Jeremey, I'll check them out - appreciated!

[@narvizz87]

@@SteveGilson I saw a video a while ago where the heavier string gauge available for a normal tuning peg was a 74. I think it was a video by Rob Schallon.

[@3ggshe11s]

Glad to see more players trying fifths tuning! I'm a rank amateur who started out on mandolin and tenor guitar, both tuned in fifths, which always made more logical sense to me than standard guitar tuning. Plus you get a greater range. The challenge for me has been to find the right combination of scale length and string gauge, as I see you found with your A-flat. Either the low string is too floppy or the high string snaps. Thinking about trying FCGDAE on a baritone guitar. Thanks for this!

[@kindnick58]

Awesome, Steve! 💪

[@SteveGilson]

Glad you liked it!!

[@mir9302]

As a pianist and mandolin player who always found guitar standard tuning a bit illogical, I really appreciated this video. Ha-ha now I have an excuse for another guitar.

[@MaxDev]

If I’m correct it’s a compromise between being able to play chords and scales easily

[@datsunlambchops4624]

That is exactly what I just told myself. Haha

[@kabemccallister6859]

My main instrument is bass, but I also play a lot of mandolin and guitar. Bass and mandolin are both symmetrical, so the odd major third interval between strings 3 and 2 on guitar really trips me up sometimes when I’m trying to improvise. Chords aren’t as bad since I just memorize the shapes, but I have been considering dabbling in 5ths tuning or tuning strings 1 and 2 up a half step for 4ths tuning.

[@andrewcox4324]

Wonderful! a tuning I had never thought of, Thank you! :)

[@TheBaconWizard]

I'm a little late but thanks for this. I am on a 27" baritone and have tuned to 5ths but inverted the strings so I can use some more reasonable guages. But ofc your PDF still works to get me started, so thanks!

[@greatsouthernpansy]

There is a metal band that flirts with fifths tuning on a bass VI guitar. It's called Dead Register and I really recommend listening to some of their stuff.

[@sifka1607]

This is so cool, I didn't know anyone else did this!

[@jamieg2427]

Check out major 3rds beginning at F#. You don't need special strings, it gives similar symmetry across the neck, but additional symmetries too. You cycle through chord inversions simply by moving the top most finger down two strings or the bottom most finger up two strings.

[@blackie5566]

Steve, so great to see you again. Awesome lesson :-), Thank you!!!

[@SteveGilson]

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!

[@cicerojones9248]

I am experimenting with this as well. I havnt played guitar in a while because I got into Irish trad and began playing mandolin and tenor banjo. So I got a set of 7 string guitar strings and tuned my electric guitar FCGDAE. So now I can play all of my irish repetoire and some of my favorite metal tunes.

[@datsunlambchops4624]

As a 25year mandolin player and 15 years playing tenor guitar. This just crossed my mind while laying bed last night. It's a thing. And would be far more comfortable for me.

[@kabemccallister6859]

The late, great Allan Holdsworth originally used 5ths tuning to play “Looking Glass” and a a few other tunes, but he later relearned the tunes in standard tuning. On top of being one of the greatest guitarists ever, he was an excellent violinist, and that is probably where he got the idea of using 5ths tuning (violin is tuned in 5ths).

[@guitaristdoggo9025]

Thats why im here

[@GNARGNARHEAD]

I've had luck with D'Addario baritone medium gauge's nickel wound on a Strat neck, chewed through a couple of packs of baritone lights trying to get it to work, but you might have some luck on the Les Paul.. thanks for all the great resources, they have been a great help :D

[@acutemadness]

i plan to eventually use the ghs gbzw tuned to fcgdae since the gauges are pretty far apart but some people would definitely want a custom set

[@aphanez]

Great comprehensive video and especially with having the PDF attached. I came across this because a friend had tuned his tenor uke to GDAE and I was talking to him about the pentatonic scale. Thought I'd demonstrate it to him on my guitar so needed all fifths tuning. Disaster- shows what a little knowledge can do! Quickly realised that the price you pay for the extended range and versatility is having to go from two notes per string to three and, for me, the stretch became too much. However, it also made sense when using it on shorter length fretboards such as mandolins or violins.

[@tangobayus]

I have a uke tuned in 4ths. Works well.

[@bobbymcloughlin3452]

2:06 The Low B is The Lowest String of a Standard Guitar (B E A D G B E) 7 = B 6 = E 5 = A 4 = D 3 = G 2 = B 1 = E The Notes of a Standard Guitar Tuning (A D G B E) 5. A 4. D 3. G 2. B 1. E

[@anarchistjesus7354]

I'm an intermediateish guitar player, teaching myself tidbits of theory, and I had the idea to play in perfect intervals because of metal, and being able to play powerchords with one finger literally anywhere on the fretboard.

[@nathanpoovey6211]

I've been playing in a very similar tuning, actually using a shorter scale length to get into an A higher than your G and deal with the large stretching. Something about scales I discovered works WONDERS for my understanding of the guitar around modes, is using tetrachords to construct scales, 4 notes a fourth apart, then repeat on the next string, rotating through different tetrachords to eventually get 3 octave scales in one position! Another thing I wish you would mention is extended chord arpeggios, because 5ths tuning makes them beyond easy. 7ths are just the same fret above the third, 9ths the same fret above the 5th, #11 when you go a fifth above a major 7... This tuning was made for arpeggios in my mind

[@SteveGilson]

Thanks Nathan, yes I didn't go into two much detail with arps. I still the Les Paul tuned like this so maybe I'll come back to it sooner rather than later.

[@lynington]

Thanks Steve, I'm going to set up one of my guitars like that, what's it like using a slide? The first guitar I ever had as a kid was tuned in 5ths, it only had two strings so I used to tune them to what I thought sounded good.

[@SteveGilson]

I've not tried, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Let me know how you get on.

[@vaughnquinlan6722]

What are your thoughts on tuning similarly to a 6 string cello. FCGDAE, the high E is the same as a guitar, and the low F is only a half step above a bass low E. I’m considering buying a cheap tele and trying it out.

[@SteveGilson]

Hi Vaughn, It's not something I 've tried myself, but you might find the conversation I had below with @ Jeremey Poparad useful. He's using this tuning right now (as did Allan Holdsworth) He's also mentioned the string gauges that he uses and a few Holdsworth songs to listen to. Good luck with it.

[@Jake-mv7yo]

I ended up figuring out this tuning on my own due to being bad at guitar and wanting to play metal. It made sense to me to have the powerchords everywhere because that's the only chord I play. I use .85 for the low string.

[@michaelblasius7705]

Check out Michael Kang from The String Cheese Incident. He plays a 5 string mandolin which is basically just a small electric guitar tuned in 5ths. I started playing one and I’m really surprised it’s not more popular. There is definitely greater utility in the open strings as you can use them to play much faster and play arpeggiated licks easily

[@tonygonzalez958]

Great video.. I'm tuned in 4ths. This interesting I might tune another guitar in 5ths. Thank you.

[@SteveGilson]

Thanks a lot and good luck with it

[@monowavy]

thank you for this great vid.

[@martinlmguitarcorner]

Very interesting. Thanks for showing this. Wouldn't a longer scale length help with the lowest string being so flappy?

[@SteveGilson]

It's hard to know. This tuning is a real juggling act between the tension and thinness of the highest string and the looseness of the lowest string.

[@martinlmguitarcorner]

@@SteveGilson That's indeed a problem, haven't thought about that one. I would also have somewhat fear of warping my neck over time if it's not a baseball bat. One side has extreme tension and the other doesn't. Eventually this is also a reason why it's not so popular. If I decide to try it, I'll probably use my Baja Tele. Should help with the base side, treble seems more manageable to me as I'm used to 11s anyway. Also it has the baseball bat neck I'm worried the least about warping.

[@mihailmilev9909]

@@SteveGilson you could use a multi-scale then right?

[@mihailmilev9909]

@@martinlmguitarcorner could you try using a multi-scale guitar

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Octave4Plus makes a set of strings for that Tuning that include a .006 High B

[@SteveGilson]

Interesting, thanks for the info!

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@SteveGilson The lightest gauges should help & also keep in mind that the .006 High B String needs some time to streatch. This is true for all strings of various brands because it minimizes the breakage.

[@tjn0110]

Great video, I was thinking of tuning in 4ths today, then thought, why stop there? :) .... We only have the "A" and "D" shape chords in standard tuning due to the change to maj 3rd interval on the 2nd string, if that was tuned to a 4th, then the A/D shapes would be like an E shape, I can't help but think that would make "some" things easier, however that would throw open chords and bar chords out the window. I really like the idea of 5ths and getting some of those low notes.

[@alancosens]

By tuning my high E just to F# I can't bend the thing a whole step without it breaking. lol I guess no bending in this tuning. Anyone seen a multiscale guitar that has a short scale on the high side?

[@MadJackChurchill1312]

Get yourself a .008 or 7 and bend away.

[@SnowAngelfish]

Very interesting! I noticed some of those basic chord you played use 4 fret spaces to finger which could be a bit uncomfortable for some. I notice you have quite large hands. 4 notes per string for scales is interesting. So for alternative picking (down,up,down,up) you would use downward pick slanting. Thanks.

[@SteveGilson]

Yes it's definitely a tuning that suits people who have a large stretch! You could probably make either pick slanting approach work, but as it has an even number of notes per string, then it does suit it, yes.

[@alancosens]

Didn't you have to change the nut to accommodate the 0.60" string?

[@SteveGilson]

No I didn't need to, it seemed to fit just fine for me.

[@khelom]

I play bass liké this for years now From low to high : C G D A Liké a cello but 1 octave below. 3 octaves on a 4 string bass , love it ;)

[@jonathanpaulpano]

I havent seen any video of NST on acoustic guitars

[@ClassicRoc87]

what are the string tensions for this?

[@Amatteus]

Why not CGDAEB. ..Like the circle of fifths. the viola and the cello...I am planning to put a guitar, guitar bass, violin, viola, cello, acoustic bass, etc.. all to the same tuning. All string instruments in fifths being the lower note C like the violin or the Cello, soI I can learn one and have the same in all of them. So I can play all of them... and I do not have to be mentally confused...You learn the guitar with 6 strings at fifths and then you can play them all.. because they are all the same tuning... Is this possible?...

[@SteveGilson]

I don't see why not, if it helps you move between instruments then go for it!

[@Amatteus]

@@SteveGilson I am going to visit a Luthier, here in Barcelona, and bring all my string instruments ( I have 6) and see what we can do..Maybe I have to make special strings special for that..... It would be amazing to have the same finger positions, for intervals, scales, and chords. Same patterns, same finger positions, for 6 instruments... That would help me so much.. Now they are all different and I am trying to learn them all and is so confusing.. Some are at fourths, some at fifths, the guitar almost 4ths but one at 3 major.. IT´S A MESS.. And very difficult to go from one instrument to the other.. All of them tuned exactly the same would make my life so less complicated.. I could do the same pentatonic scale, same major and minor chords in all.... same everything in all 6 instruments.. That would be paradise, compared to now.. I will let you know.. Thanks

[@guitaristssuck8979]

You need a 0.07 to get to B and a short scale guitar, maybe a Les Paul can do, otherwise a Reverend Terz, it's a 21" I use a 0.08 for G on a 25,5" I wonder if it can go higher...

[@carloerr7369]

Thank for the video, very informative, it spurred me to explore this outstanding tuning. Except for you pdf, can you point out some informative source about it? Surprisingly I can't find any! Thank very much

[@SteveGilson]

Hi Carlo, This was the result of my own investigations, based on Cello/ violin tunings etc. Google "New Standard Tuning" or "all 5ths tuning guitar" for a similar ideas.

[@carloerr7369]

@@SteveGilson well, you did a terrific job, thank you even more for sharing it!

[@cicherogabriel]

Yes, its a lot of joy! Here some EP's of mine using this tuning: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4XaXq2Yl7CrrdU kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqWmqop8l56ml8U Enjoy!

[@JLeppert]

Sir, may I get your permission to redo this PDF as a 4 string bass in cello tuning for my private, and personal study?

[@SteveGilson]

Yes, do what ever you want with it. I hope it helps.

[@JLeppert]

@@SteveGilson glorious! It is. I'm a creator of music- I didn't want to just take your stuff without asking. Courtesy stuff.

[@sauceysauce7840]

ibanez makes a 22 inch scale length super strat, might be a perfect fit for 5ths tuning.

[@chrisw5742]

Magma strings makes strings called Compositor strings for nylon guitars. They will be at proper tension and a nylon string guitar will sound better. You would probably have to make a custom set. I have my uke in 5ths.

[@wmc128]

I Will stick to all fourths I could not imagine mapping out intervals in Perfect 5ths Standard guitar is R,4,b7,b3,5,R P4 is R,4 b7,b3,b6,b9

[@denniswolf96]

Well............as far as the open pitches go, you don't have to tune the lowest string to F. I've tuned it to B, then proceeded with F#, C#, G#, Eb, Bb etc as long as they're all perfect fifths.... it's all cool. :D (I know it's kinda obvious but heck)

[@2Langdon]

Very interesting. Will try it out on acoustic. How are your hands?

[@SteveGilson]

I'm still finding it fun, you need a good stretch to be able to take advantage of it though! I'm talking to a Specialist on Wednesday, he asked me to stop playing fingerstyle until then, so I'm continuing to use a pick and working on my Legato until I've had a call with him.

[@onesyphorus]

real talk!

[@edwincancelii2917]

They should make more fifth tuned electric guitars. They are awesome. They should even make fifth tuned acoustic guitars, too.

[@foljs5858]

Any guitar can be tuned like that, doesn't need anything else except the appropriate gauge strings

[@wmc128]

G1 D2 A2 E3 B3 Gb4 F1 C2 G2 D3 A3 E4, Gb1 Db2 Ab2 Eb3 Bb3 F4

[@imagesandwords4327]

You've not found anyone playing metal in all 5ths? = > Robert Fripp, sir

[@carldulcie364]

like a 6 string mandolin same cord shapes same scale shapes

[@SteveGilson]

Yes, one of the reasons that prompted me to try this was knowing the Cello was a large instrument which had this tuning too.

[@EasyGuitarNow]

Found you by Twitter 😉 i am french and little english héhé !! Enjoy !!

[@SteveGilson]

Good to meet you

[@LucianoPietrafesa]

Great video Steve! In Guitar Craft, founded in 1985 by Robert Fripp, we call it New Standard Tuning (NST) but we use a Low C on the 6th string. You can check out King Crimson band (90’s onward) to check out how metal sounds using fifths. Here a reference video of KSPS where the three guitarists are using the NST: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYW7e6h7lJ5sna8 Best wishes from Argentina!

[@foljs5858]

NST is fourths though, not fifths, isn't it?

[@bobbymcloughlin3452]

Violin is an Italian Word: "Violino" Which Means: "Small Viol" Viola = "Viol" in Italian Violoncello = "Small Large Viol" in Italian Violincello = "Tiny Viol" in Italian Cello = Little Giocherellare = "Fiddle" in Italian Giocherellarino = "Small Fiddle" in Italian Giocherellarone = "Large Fiddle" in Italian A Viol is Tuned Like a Lute, Vihuela & Mandol A Fiddle is Tuned Either in Fourths (B E A D / E A D G) or Fifths (G D A E / C G D A) A Tuning of a Fiddle Comes in Binary Code of Pitches Standard 5ths: G D A E -> P5 -> C G D A Standard 4ths: B E A D -> P5 -> E A D G Cajun 5ths: F C G D -> P5 -> Bb F C G Cajun 4ths: A D G C -> P5 -> D G C F Indian 5ths: G# D# A# E# / Ab Eb Bb F -> P5 -> C# G# D# A# / Db Ab Eb Bb Indian 4ths: B# E# A# D# / C F Bb Eb -> P5 -> E# A# D# G# / F Bb Eb Ab 5ths (Solo): A E B F# -> P5 -> D A E B 4ths (Solo): C# F# B E -> P5 -> F# B E A 4 = G -> C 3 = D -> G 2 = A -> D 1 = E -> A Standard Fiddle 5 = C -> F 4 = G -> C 3 = D -> G 2 = A -> D 1 = E -> A Standard C G D A E F C G D A Solo D A E B F# G D A E B Indian C# G# D# A# E# / Db Ab Eb Bb F F# C# G# D# A# / Gb Db Ab Eb Bb Cajun Bb F C G D Eb Bb F C G 6 String Fiddle Standard F C G D A E Bb F C G D A Solo G D A E B F# C G D A E B Indian F# C# G# D# A# E# / Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F B F# C# G# D# A# / Cb Gb Db Ab Eb Bb Cajun Eb Bb F C G D Ab Eb Bb F C G (One You Are Using in The Guitar)

[@CustomPcTech]

Nothing but more stretching. No benefit.

[@MadJackChurchill1312]

It completely reinvents how you approach guitar. What are you talking about?