Allen & Thurber Pepperbox

[@CokenOpi]

finally you talk about a gun with creators that were actually successful, instead of the usual depressing stories like HE NEVER SOLD ANY GUNS AND DIED BANKRUPT AND ALONE

[@SONOFAZOMBIE2025]

+CokenOpi lol they are usually the best ones!

[@atlasparadigm3585]

lmao bruh

[@mr420quickscops2]

You mean like Colt? Or Henry? Or Winchester? Or Smith? Or Wessen? Most of the guns had successful designers/creators haha

[@ratleader90]

Scream Like You Mean It Check out the guycot video.

[@loganjones5766]

@@mr420quickscops2 Colt, Henry, Winchester, Smith and Wesson, are not really forgotten weapons they are the successful top 5% of manufacturers. 95% of the videos gun Jesus makes are about guns that never really sold well commercially or to the military and the makers died as broke failures.

[@KarlBunker]

Here's the text from Mark Twain's Roughing It: "To aim along the turning barrel and hit the thing aimed at was a feat which was probably never done with an "Allen" in the world. But George's was a reliable weapon, nevertheless, because, as one of the stage-drivers afterward said, "If she didn't get what she went after, she would fetch something else." And so she did. She went after a deuce of spades nailed against a tree, once, and fetched a mule standing about thirty yards to the left of it. Bemis did not want the mule; but the owner came out with a double-barreled shotgun and persuaded him to buy it, anyhow. It was a cheerful weapon-the "Allen." Sometimes all its six barrels would go off at once, and then there was no safe place in all the region round about, but behind it."

[@AbeBSea]

Poor mule :(

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Something tells me Clemens did not like the Pepperbox too much :D

[@AbeBSea]

@@Ugly_German_Truths your name and avatar amuse me!!

[@theartistformallyknownas2677]

Mark Twain has no chill and I love it

[@BIG-DIPPER-56]

Thanks for that ! ! ! 🙂😎👍

[@MrTRISTANCOOL]

In another 200 years someone will do a similar video on a Hi Point

[@alexandriayeates9792]

MrTRISTANCOOL "Hey guys I'm Glorp 37 and I'm here at Pluto Hope Auction Company, taking a look at a Model 995ts!"

[@LDmagnum]

Haha exactly

[@brokenspine66]

But those pepperboxes were more reliable + durable in contrast to the Hi Point junk.

[@1885win]

Haha

[@floo1465]

brokenspine66 Have you seen a Hi-Point before? Those things can’t be broken.

[@rom65536]

I have a 4-shot pepperbox. It's got a ludicrous trigger pull and is probably best used by sticking it in the belly of the guy you want to shoot and pulling the trigger. I would say "Long Range" is the distance across a poker table.

[@-jank-willson]

...and that is the ultimate reason my revolvers won out... ...also because, to make a larger pepperbox in larger, more powerful calibers that the revolvers used, it would have to be pretty larger, and those 6 barrels would cause it to weigh too much compared to the single-barreled revolvers...

[@cymond]

What Pepperbox so you have? A COP 357? A Mossberg Brownie? Those are the only 4 barrel pepperboxes I know of, but I'm sure the are others.

[@canadaisdecent1635]

Eatons was a hardware store in Canada

[@cougarhunter33]

I need a pepperbox to go along with my salt rifle.

[@jamesslick4790]

😂👍👍

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Just go easy with the Mustardgas, okay?

[@jamesslick4790]

@@Ugly_German_Truths Well, your username checks out. 😛

[@user-wn2fh7cr3x]

That’s so funny 🤣.

[@Cellmate412162]

Despite its drawbacks, I gotta say that it's very impressive for a handgun to have double action capability during the mid 1800's.

[@PhantomSavage]

Okay, hear me out: .... *pepperbox shotgun.*

[@dalemoss4684]

Nock volley gun vibes

[@Mygg_Jeager]

It exists. Just load the smooth bore pepper box with ball-and-buck, or blunderbus grape shot lol. Smooth bores are incredibly versatile.

[@LonesomeKrow]

Destiny 1 and 2 have a weird exotic shotgun called “The Fourth Horseman” that effectively is a pump action pepper box looking shotgun. Obviously not realistic or super functional but it looks hella cool.

[@battleshipfleet]

hear me out; all 4 to 6 barrels of such a weapon chain firing at once. literal grapeshot

[@mtslyh]

I have that exact gun. As you said, pepperboxes are from a very interesting time period in firearms history. love the black powder firearms. keep 'em coming!

[@stevefrey1471]

They may have been cheap in the day, but were good quality and usually engraved. I have two; both work. The screw seen on the inside of the grip adjusts the hammer strike, which should not touch an empty nipple. It is possible to load 2 balls per barrel, making it a 12 shot. Sight the gun gangsta style. It also faster shooting and makes a better bludgeon than the Colt.

[@BIG-DIPPER-56]

WOW ! ! ! THANKS ! felt I learned as much from your brief post as I did from the presentation ! 😎👍

[@-jank-willson]

so each time you fire, 2 balls would come out instead of just the one?

[@-jank-willson]

are you selling one of them?

[@Ferretfiend18]

I don't know why but I love Pepperbox guns. Thanks for sharing.

[@GirishManjunathMusic]

I sure know why I like pepperboxes. A certain noble-born adventurer by the name of Percival Frederickstein von Mussel Kollowsky de Rolo the Third.

[@clarkcolt45]

no problem with cylinder gap nor indexing the cylinder perfectly with the barrel, since all chambers have their own barrel

[@HeatherSpoonheim]

Looking at the Pepperbox, I can't help but imagine steamboats and professional gamblers. It just seems like the perfect "Gentleman's" sidearm for backing away from a poker table of sore losers.

[@formerpilgrim4934]

You accomplished two great things with this video, first you made the lowly pepperbox seem interesting, second you were able to properly pronounce Worcester!

[@waldemar.h6021]

this was a really great video. I like to learn about these odd guns. I never knew that they were really popular.

[@grjohejw84thg]

I appreciate this choice of weapon to review, and the history of pepperboxes you gave. It's nice to see a variety of different weapons profiled on this channel, from esoteric military prototypes to the common everyday workingman's gun.

[@CarolusMagnus2501]

I can't copy and paste the quote for some reason, but Mark Twain mentions the Allen Pepperbox in "Roughing it," saying that the only safe place when using firing it is directly behind it, due to the tendency for all six barrels to go off.

[@2tommyrad]

+NoGoufy Firefox?

[@CarolusMagnus2501]

+Tommy Rad Yeah, I don't know why I still use that piece of garbage browser. Only because Opera and Sea Monkey don't get any support whatsoever.

[@2tommyrad]

NoGoufy FF seems to operate [cut & paste to YT] 10% of the time. C&P in other places works fine... Try doing the C&P REALLY slowly. I find it helps. I hate Chrome so... I'm stuck with FF until I toss all my computers into a ditch.

[@BvousBrainSystems]

+Tommy Rad || Oh, I thought it was a thing where KZbin disabled copy-paste to avoid spam.

[@2tommyrad]

BvousBrainSystems I thought so too. I slowed down the process [place cursor over... highlight the sentence wait 3 seconds, right click... wait 3 seconds, etc... even then, I can only C&P from FF to YT about 80% of the time. Some weird glitch between FF & YT I guess. I never had that issue with Chrome but, I hate Chrome. The result is, I post less on YT... really, no one will miss my nuggets of insight LOL. Cheers.

[@dalemoss4684]

Perfect cheap simplicity. I really like these pistols and want to own one some day.

[@Nonii-92]

Colonel Mustard, revolver, dining room

[@jansenart0]

When I think about a pepperbox I think of the board game Clue

[@danilonakazone386]

I can imagine someone traveling around with theri family and dual wielding pepperboxes revolvers to deffend them against robbers. This gun screams it's own history

[@RAYTHEONGAMING]

Wait it includes 2 pistols? Sweet now me and my defiant teenage son can settle disputes like men.

[@N._99]

Well did you win?

[@lorrispain4125]

I think he died since there is no answer... RIP in Piece

[@RAYTHEONGAMING]

@@lorrispain4125 😂😂😂 just saw this comment I'm dying now 😂😂

[@lorrispain4125]

Oh no no no! Do not die! I did not Intend that!

[@THE_YIGLER]

cheap gun or not i still think its beautiful and interesting

[@langbo9999]

Pretty good self defense weapon.

[@Face2theScr33n]

Looks like a really slick way to solve the problems of the time. Cartridge bullets were inevitable in retrospect, but in the 1830's I would have loved one of these for self defense. The fact they're inaccurate might discourage owners from going out looking for trouble.

[@TMC1877]

I just picked one of these up for about 50 bucks, thanks for the information, mine looks identical to the one you showed in the video

[@Za7a7aZ]

An other advantage of each bullit having its own barrel is no pressure leakage..there is no gap from cylinder to the barrel.

[@transdetendal]

YEAH!!! that gun is one of my favorites!! thanks a lot for this upload ian , its been a history lesson of all times!! ita a beautyfull gun with a lot of simple and wonderfull ideas!

[@Actual-Knight]

I love these things so much

[@MrTinTinTinny]

The gun from "Clue"!

[@GeronKizan]

ME: *watching a wonderful history lesson about the working man's firearm of the mid-1800s.* ALSO ME: *"Ah yes, the gun that Florence Nightingale would threaten patients with while "curing" them."*

[@deuceandguns]

The Pepperbox a 19th century Hi-Point. Nice!

[@johncox2865]

Thanks Ian ! I’ve heard so much about these, but never really knew what they were before!

[@healyburnham393]

Wonderful presentation ! I have an 1855 Allen & Wheellock .36 central hammer rifle. And I made it shoot! I put a front sight on it, a trigger guard, and put a recess on the face of the hammer. Nobody sells replacement hammers for this...

[@joeldaugherty6849]

There is likely a serial number on the inside of the wood handle pieces and on the portion of the edge of the metal on the handle covered by the wood as well.

[@snotnosewilly99]

One of the major advantages of the Pepperbox and any gun is --- noise. If a robber with a club is coming at you from 75 feet away and you fire your Pepperbox, the vast majority of the time the robber will turn tail. Even thou you have no chance of hitting him a 75 feet with the Pepperbox.

[@ZGryphon]

"Mr. George Bemis was dismally formidable..."

[@ahoneyman]

Fun fact, the factory building eventually became Harrington and Richardson.

[@The1Helleri]

This is my favorite smooth bore. The first gun I ever held as well. Too bad I have no spare money. I'd bid on this over getting a new computer if I did.

[@GetDougDimmadomed]

The most prominent J. Eaton I found was John Henry Eaton, a Tennessee senator and Andrew Jackson's Secretary of War. He lived from 1790 to 1856.

[@USSVTV]

Are there any terms to describe firearms like this that have multiple barrels which each have their own chamber? The Lancaster Howdah pistols and the Harmonica pistols seem to share that distinction and they're the most interesting guns and weird guns i think you've ever done on the channel. The prospect of hearing the history about another firearm like that always has me coming back every week :)!

[@Lady_Azkadelia]

I always thought it would be interesting to have a modern version of this, that would fire barrels singularly, but with a lever that would let you fire all at once. For when you were really pissed off at something, and were bored of your wrists.

[@GamezGames19]

Or get a judge revolver

[@jeffgrey663]

I come across these every so often

[@Treblaine]

6 rapid shots in 1830's would be quite impressive, even if it's utterly inaccurate. It's worth realising that this is double-action when double-action revolvers wouldn't be common till the 1880's.

[@ProjectD13X]

So it's basically Ye Olde Hi Point

[@Great.Milenko]

for some reason, recently youtube seems to be recommending kids learning videos on the right while I watch your videos :S

[@Ctulhu911]

+AwesomeVindicator For me it's scandals in education systems, i guess it's depens on a country you are in. and tags smth like #education #politics #timetokill ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (russia bytw)

[@eappleford]

+AwesomeVindicator He categorizes his videos under education.

[@YCCCm7]

+Elliott Appleford Too bad this isn't generally classroom friendly material. Too bad, since Ian's work is awesome, historically and mechanically educational, and generally pretty objective.

[@eappleford]

what's not classroom friendly about history and engineering?

[@YCCCm7]

+Elliott Appleford It's firearm history and engineering. Firearms and schools, especially in the US, are a big no no. Something about our tendency to put them together for the sake of suffering.

[@mariosebastiani3214]

Be wary of the man with a filed bar hammer, for he already used that pepperbox a lot.

[@mchagnon7]

There needs to be a company that reproduces this!

[@meloche1syndrome]

that's the revolver from the game clue!

[@Metalman200xdamnit]

That pepperbox pistol is pretty cool.

[@michaelnolan6054]

It's the game piece from Clue.

[@kevinbaker6168]

If you want to see more on multi barreled revolving firearms check out his video on the Nock Volley or Rigging gun. I also believe he did one on a Belgian version which fired each barrel independently, whereas the Nock was designed to fire all of them together.

[@Scorpiuszeroone]

We have an Allen & Thurber pepperbox in our museum collection. One of the barrels has a large hole blown out the side.

[@adrienperie6119]

- Hey Allen ? - What'd'ya'wont' Thurber ? - *Pew pew pew pew* ! - 😦😩😵☠... - ...I just got an idea ! -🪦 - I'm gon' make a fortune with those guns ! D'ya like that Allen ? -🪦 - That's what I thought

[@bokachoy]

Pretty interesting I remember building a plastic model of a pepper box probably from Revel I believe the action actually worked. Good video.

[@mikeborrelli193]

Carl just did a test of this gun for inrangeTV... Chronograph 50gr round ball over 20gr FFF black powder @ 1300fps.. All six shots into a head @ 5yrds in under 2 seconds... Impressive to say the least. This was no Hi Point, this was the pinnicle of CCW circa 1840 - 1850s

[@trooperdgb9722]

Glad someone else saw that and came back here!!!

[@TheJeffNasty]

I think of the pepper box because of Clue. One "pepperbox" piece came with the entire set. I finally learned what that thing is actually called...sweet.

[@Wintermute01001]

Fun fact: Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, fired one of these and fired at the mob that came to kill him.

[@identifiesas65.wheresmyche95]

How beautiful to live in a time when governments didn't require everything and your dog and you could just choose to not serialize your gun!

[@alessioyautja612]

I'm not sure I've ever even heard of this variant of firearm before. I thought of it myself, independently after looking at the gattling gun for the first time but I'm glad that they had a little success before the revolver came through ^^

[@DrGun-re1kd]

The old Swedish pepperbox I have still works well after 175 years. 12 grains of FFFg black powder, a patched round ball and a #10 cap and one is in business. Accuracy is abysmal, but at 30 feet, you could scare heck out of a potential opponent. At 9 feet, the shooter is likely to hit the target. With practice, it is easy to shoot quickly. rotating the barrels by hand after each shot.

[@kennebecsmitty]

COOL!My Grandfather had an old pepperbox,I don't remember the manufacturer,but he was from Vermont,it might have been these guys,we never shot it.

[@randywatson8347]

Nice simple design

[@brianreddeman951]

The first thing I think of when someone mentions a Pepperbox Pistol is Mark Twain's Roughing It. Kudos on mentioning it; not to many people know about it or want to read through all 600+ pages. :)

[@russbilzing5348]

I can only assume that the cylinder with the notch on it was a way to keep track of which ones you had already loaded, to prevent leaving one empty or double loading.

[@BIG-DIPPER-56]

What on earth did the holster look like ? ! ? ! ???

[@rays5163]

"When you think of a pepperbox to think of a weird gun. That's not really the case". Proceeds to show weird gun.

[@utahliberator]

I have several Allen & Wheelock pepperboxes.

[@hekkenschutz]

haha thank you for mentioning Mark Twain's "Roughing It" that book, along with "Life on the Mississippi" should have been the required reading in school instead of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. when I clicked to watch this video I immediately thought of Mark Twain's fellow stage coach passenger who comically missed a cow. thanks for another great video!

[@VarisLux]

The markings on the barrell at 8.52 say Patrutko 18 x 7. Ian says that it says Patent 1837.

[@silverstar4289]

I just won one at auction. an 1837 version with nice markings.

[@calvingreene90]

A gun for sword fighting range.

[@Nonii-92]

i always thought you had to manually rotate the barrels on these things

[@johngibson2884]

$1000 for 2 good quality pepperbox originals ....including an early model pepperbox? Very good deal . These guns , especially shrouded early models , are way underpriced in a market that is normally overpriced.. Where cheap Stinger pen guns made in the 1990's are getting $2500+ ...i bought mine for $189 in 1994. 1 Amazing how small, inexpensive guns can appreciate about 100 times that of the rate of prime real estate within 20 years or less .

[@Ratrazor]

I'm sure a couple people in the military carry them as a backup weapon or a boot gun in that sense. I know if I was in the military at that time any extra gun you could carry on you that was small and concealable would have came in handy.

[@bungmanagforty7959]

I would have liked to see a demo of how to load the barrels. In particular, how to rotate them to set the caps without the hammer hitting them as you rotate to the next nipple.

[@imsteevin]

That is the hardest part. By far the easiest way is to use a flathead screwdriver to remove the barrel assembly and load them all like that; takes far less time.

[@rickhigson3881]

Very nice presentation,thank you!

[@DrSid42]

How did the caps stay in place with the anti-chain fire sheet removed ?

[@Sheehy223]

Friction.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+MaxTheKanuck #JoinTheMasterRace Hope and luck. :)

[@Sheehy223]

+Forgotten Weapons That too.

[@imsteevin]

You can press them into the nipples pretty hard and friction keeps them there just fine. If they came off with the shield on you'd still have the same problem because they'd be trapped off center.

[@chrisperrien7055]

Same type also seen in movie "Rooster Cogburn" though he calls it 22 caliber instead of 32 caliber, besides the aforementioned Clue Game.

[@bendover9862]

I wonder if the first revolver designers got inspiration from the pepperbox. The indexing system maybe?

[@gronow7240]

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for pronouncing my hometown (U.K.) correctly.

[@matthewrosa4295]

The Chain Reaction Between Caps In The Cylinder (?-Is That The Right Term To Use For This Type Of Gun?) Of The Pepperbox Briefly Gives The Effect Of A Miniature Gatling Gun, True!-But At The Cost Of Your Hand!

[@dlt4videos]

thanks, as always a superb back story

[@troy9477]

Interesting. For some reason i always thought pepperboxes were a European innovation. Was the Ethan Allen of the company a descendant of the famous patriot and Revolutionary leader? Nice tie-in in he was. As i said in another post, i think a 4-barrel .36 caliber w/3.5-4" barrels (rifled, please) would have been great. Lighter and a bit smaller in circumference, while being larger caliber and still giving you several shots. Great video as always. It clears up ideas i had about pepperboxes. Thank you

[@leojacinto8407]

Please do a video on the Reiger mechanical repeating pistol.

[@earl8815]

So it’s effectively a double action black powder buckyball revolver? How impressive!

[@jonathanjollimore4794]

I found one in second hand store bagged mother to get it you can guess if I got it or not

[@Recoilspring]

You usually hear about the cap and ball revolvers in the American Civil War, but not so much on the pepper box pistols. I wonder what the percentage was of these old/proven guns were back in 1861-1865 during the war?

[@imagifyer]

not knowing much about this era of firearm I'd always assumed that pepperboxes were essentially miniaturised volley guns. the more you know

[@nwwhitco]

REPRO! REPRO! That would be such a cool repro to have!

[@kevingooley9628]

Dixie Gun Works

[@marklandwehr7604]

Ian it would be interesting if you would demonstrate some of these black powder cap and ball pepper boxes black powder very very interesting it's Alchemy

[@HPBrowningBoy]

I see that you can let the hammer rest in between chambers but was that common practice or was it more preferred to carry it with the hammer on an empty chamber? When carried in between chambers does it line up to a cap if you pull the trigger?

[@finalfantasy50]

Have you done a video where you have fired a pepperbox? I would like to see what the mechanical differences between a pepperbox and a revolver is.

[@Bladsmith]

Most pepperbox guns were manually indexed. Thus, as far as I'm aware the action was nothing more than a simple double-action trigger and hammer.

[@AFpaleoCon]

Worcester, MA represent! Home of a shit ton of obscure and long lasting firearms manufacturers as well as some really popular ones! There is also an interiors store chain called Ethan Allen. Hmmm

[@BogeyTheBear]

This example is a .32 cited to be the middle range of typical sizes. I assume the big frame is a .36 and the smaller version shot out sewing needles. I'm curious what a .44 'Army' version would be like. Specifically, I wonder what the upper mass limit would be for a pepperbox when compared to a Colt Army revolver of comparable age (Walker or a Dragoon). A six-shot pepperbox is a six-barreled handgun, after all, and how big is too big when it comes to handling or how heavy that full action trigger would become?

[@jackmcgowan5848]

So this was like the hi point of its day, not the absolute best but it worked got the job done and was easily affordable

[@___Mac___]

I'd love to see this run in competition. Imagine it would do pretty well..................

[@dwightehowell6062]

The guns were notoriously inaccurate. Mark Twain while traveling by coach reported being late because a fellow passenger fired at a target and fetched the neigh mule. I've owned a reproduction and it was fun as long as you didn't mind missing a lot.

[@kei_otake]

am I the only one that remembers the little playmobil cast metal pirate pistol that looks exactly like this

[@dalesubic345]

What is that pin sticking out on the inside if the grip across from the trigger guard? It looks very uncomfortable to hold.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Dale Subic I believe that is the screw holding the mainspring in position inside the grips.

[@StAlchemyst]

+Forgotten Weapons I believe the date on the weapon was 1887. it looked like the worn number flared up and down on both sides to me. Minor point and might be wrong. Just FYI. Keep up the wonderful videos.

[@NormanMatchem]

+Stanley Scalf 1887? Revolvers were the standard of the day by that point. The M1873 "Peacemaker" Colt Single Action Army revolver had been in production for over a decade, and that fires metallic cartridges while the bore was rifled. Before that, the M1858 or so Remington was I think the most common revolver during the American Civil War, and that also had a rifled bore along with a single barrel and a rotating cylinder. The lever under the barrel made reloading RELATIVELY easy in comparison to this pepper box which would require a separate ramrod. WELL before 1887, many of those Remington revolvers of the American Civil War was converted to use metallic cartridges. By the 1880s, muzzle loading was pretty much obsolete. America had the M1873 Springfield Trapdoor, Britain had the Martini-Henry which would be replaced by the Lee Metford repeating bolt action one year later, Germany would be adopting their M1888 Commission Rifle in a year, Russia would have their legendary M1891 "Three Line Rifle" Mosin in 4 years, the French had JUST adopted the M1886 Lebel which was the first design to use smokeless powder and possibly the first to use FMJ bullets, the first truly successful and widely used semi auto pistol, the C96, is less than a decade away. The Webley design was surely on the go by 1887, and then there's that American design before it where the rear sight is the unlocking mechanism... can't remember the name, starts with an S I think, but it was an auto-ejecting revolver that allowed for fairly quickly reloading compared to an M1873. My point is, as Ian said in the vid, by the time cartridge revolvers became standard, the smooth bore pepper box was essentially obsolete. The chances of it being made in 1887 MUST be impossible because by then, there's 20-30 year old revolvers available from the American Civil War. Why would you get a double action only muzzle loaded smooth bore pepperbox when you could get a rifled single action only cartridge firing converted firearm from the American civil war? In short, I do not think that this item was made in 1887. If it was, then it was a reproduction for collectors who wanted to experience old timey designs, like how they make all those single action revolvers and muzzle loading rifles in Italy, and indeed even Ruger in America makes single action revolvers with a 'Wild West' feel for those who want to slip back about 100-140 years.

[@StAlchemyst]

NormanMatchem I thought it was weird for the same reasons you stated, but I swear it looks like that number used to be an 8. I guess common sense should have told me otherwise

[@matthewmudgett7413]

I think it's an "x", which was a common practice in the older days of printing when you didn't have the appropriate number available for some reason or another

[@Goodroosters]

Okay but if you're someone like me who hits half their shots on a good day these things are fun as hell.

[@boxy2k8]

Reminds me of the "turret" pistols from the Fable games.

[@AFpaleoCon]

Shouldn't the turret pistols from the Fable game* remind you of this?

[@boxy2k8]

No, because I saw the pistols from fable first