Mormons Baptize the Dead (Even Anne Frank)

[@upnorth2421]

I've always found baptism for the dead to be ingredibly disrespectful. We all live with our own beliefs and values, nobody has the right to mess with them after we are gone.

[@Charles-yf7kc]

It's funny how they say "you can leave the church, but can't leave it alone", then proceed to harass non-members and push their agenda onto others. So hypocritical.

[@scandia67]

@@Charles-yf7kc The "hypocrazy" goes right over their heads.

[@TryinaD]

Exactly. I don’t give a shit about what happens to me after I die, but this is more disrespectful and offensive for those left behind and following the same beliefs as the deceased.

[@3vaLuna12]

They have been taught that doing so is saving the dead person’s soul from eternal damnation, so they don’t see it as a form of disrespect. They believe they are doing a Godly act of love. People do a lot of terrible things in the name of God.

[@ashleymarks3726]

as a Jew, I am appalled about Anne Frank. that girl suffered and died proudly for her faith, and to try and turn her into something else in her death is beyond horrendous.

[@DanA.-jo4sg]

It's typical of cults to have their followers performing nonsensical routines and practices to give them a false sense of accomplishment which aims to strengthen their obedience. I believe this is why Smith created this practice.

[@bendyrland7213]

Keep them busy and obedient.

[@bambie1830]

In this case Joseph actually started this practice after seeing his dead brother Alvin in heaven who according to the preacher was burning in hell. Doing baptism for the whole human race came later

[@WoomyQues]

@@michaelparks5669 ever heard of freedom of speech, it gives us a right to criticize when some weird, morally questionable shit is happening.

[@ZalazGirl]

@@michaelparks5669 yeah that freedom is why you're allowed to push this cult like ideal onto under 8 year olds and make them think they'll go to hell if they ever have the GALL to think (by freedom) differently.

[@ZalazGirl]

@@michaelparks5669 (not sure if YT deleted or someone else but try 2) your freedom is why you can teach this to 8 year olds yet pressure that for them to be forever "saved" they need to keep following extremely controlling rules. You ignore the "freedom" that when someone disagrees they are allowed to leave. And state the harm they experienced is a "lie". That is freedom, to state your experience. Freedom of religion isn't freedom to control.

[@SatansSimgma]

What if im already chilling in Nirvana when all of a sudden im whisked away to moron heaven?

[@andyr4343]

well the LDS say you get a choice to accept or decline, so I can only imagine it comes through like spam emails and calls

[@sunlight-sky151]

This comment and the first reply is just absolute gold lmao xD

[@cv990a4]

As an atheist, I see baptizing the dead is just another example of a faith wasting time and energy on nonsense. But I understand why believers in other faiths seeing this as incredibly disrespectful.

[@niraea]

@@cv990a4 it's definitely a personal feeling. even not just believers, but any person who is invested in what happens to them and their legacy etc after they die. i'm not really one of those people, beyond how i'd like my remains dealt with (PLEASE plastinate me and put me in a haunted house) but other than that i wouldn't really care - because i will be dead and nonexistent. if somebody did a baptism for my dead dad though, yeah i'd be pretty freaking bothered by that, because he is a staunch atheist and wouldn't want anything about himself forcably connected to religion after the religious abuse of his own young life.

[@princessadora]

this whole room is full of thick people as always cannot for the life of you grasp basic concepts. your comment is extra ironic

[@sarahmarie3317]

I was actually a convert at age 16. Right before this, my grandpa had died and he was probably the closest person to me. I remember my Mormon friends and the missionaries used that to get me to convert. They essentially told me that if I wanted to see him again, I would need to convert, and then baptize him using baptisms for the dead. So, I ended up converting. It was actually baptisms for the dead that made me run SOO fast. It was my first temple experience, and all my friends were so excited. I thought it would be this magical experience. I literally wanted to throw up after after I left the temple. I immediately knew I was in a cult during the whole process. I felt so scared and sick. Thankfully I was only part of the church for a year and a half, but that year and a half really traumatized me. I feel soooo much sympathy and pain for those that grew up in the church and had that trauma from the day they were born.

[@s.a.4358]

I’m sorry that the church used the pain and sadness you felt loosing your grandfather to manipulate you. That is really sad and really wrong.

[@mistiquefire3462]

Sickening n cult terrifying. My x bestfriend was mormon I never could find out all the secrets decades in i prodded and outed her cult n having babies bs. Arguments ensued for years while I was suffering alone n she was home hving sex and making berry pies. After I'm the first soul who ever rejected herein her life and was her true friend 35 years she tried to flip that im mental or a narcissist cuz I wanted her to visit me and stop going to visit new babies every month.

[@helgardhossain9038]

Poor you ... Being pushed to do something because one is grieving is BAD ... 😔😢

[@CherylFrank-w6u]

How do I learn if a family member has been baptized?

[@fromikea8562]

someone heard my mom had heart failure when I was in elementary school and they were mormon and they sent missionaries to our house. Not to pray for us or give us a shitty pie or classerole like other chruches or familes did. No, to say my parents would never see each other in heaven or see us kids. We kicked them out. My parents were SO SO MAD. We threw the book of mormon at them as they left. My mother wasn't rasied in one branch of christanity but raised going to various churches but my dad was rasied catholic. My parents don't believe in organized religion and therefore don't attend any "church" these days but do believe Jesus is their savior. It was such a upsettting thing to claim to be christian but then say those awful things about our lives after death.

[@macrograms]

"Mom, why do all the people I'm baptized for have polish names?" - actual question somebody I know had. Oh my god....

[@shannond1511]

I am so confused by this lol

[@Benthedad14]

@@shannond1511a large number of people who were killed in the Holocaust were Polish Jews

[@tardis358]

A lot of Polish Jews were murdered in the Holocaust.

[@andreav8744]

​​@@shannond1511 Poland was occupied by Nazis in WWII where many Jewish people and other groups were subjected to ethnic cleansing. It is where Auschwitz was located.

[@mynamejeff3545]

That's it, if I find out someone has posthumously baptised my Polish family members, Jewish or otherwise, who were killed by the Nazis I'm throwing hands.

[@uhdenuh8676]

As a Jewish person, I find baptisms for victims and survivors of the Holocaust to be especially egregious and disrespectful. After experiencing so much violence and trauma from antisemitism, it’s truly adding insult to injury when people do this. Judaism isn’t just a religion for us, but a deep sense of community and identity. To try and take that away from us, in death, is almost cruel and shows a deep lack of empathy and care. I respect all religions and religious people, but what I don’t respect is people who think their own religion needs to be forced upon everyone else. I love being Jewish, but I’d never try and convince someone to convert or posthumously convert them. It works for me, but it certainly doesn’t work for everybody, and that’s ok. Religious pluralism and tolerance is a beautiful and important thing.

[@ChicaTiquita]

I just felt absolutely disgusted by the thought of baptisms for the dad for Jews but I couldn't really articulate why. You managed to do that perfectly.

[@SteveSmith-os5bs]

The church has been called on the carpet publicly for this a few times and they publicly agreed not to do the type of Jewish holocaust baptisms anymore but they have also been caught violating their promise a couple of times.

[@briannacardoza4933]

not to mention they also baptized hitler...

[@AG-iu9lv]

​@@SteveSmith-os5bsthey don't even care, their gawd says it's okay so why bother with what gentiles think. I think they only pay lip service because their PR people want an easy day.

[@southbug27]

I remember when it hit the press about the Mormons baptizing Holocaust victims, & everyone I know who commented on it was disgusted & offended by that. You’re right about it being disrespectful to Jews & it felt like another, completely sick & unnecessary act of abuse against people who had already been victims of one of the worst crimes of inhumanity the world has ever seen. I can’t remember who everyone who spoke about it back then or what was said, but I don’t remember the look of disgust on people’s faces when people learned about it. Just thinking about it now I can feel the disgust on my own face. I can’t believe it didn’t occur to anyone in the religion that it’s disrespectful to force their religion on people, especially Holocaust victims; who should’ve been given the respect to be left alone after their deaths. It was like another abuse after all the literal hell on earth they’d already suffered through. 🤬🤬🤬 🕍🕍🕍🕍🕍

[@emilussy]

Omg i remember my first temple recommend interview at 12yo and the bishop (my best friends dad💀) asked if i kept the law of chastity and my dumbass was like "...i try to🤠", and this man looks at me for a full second and was like "do you *know* what the law of chastity is?" I did not. And if that doesnt sum up the church and blind consent, then i dont know what does 😐

[@Keebrev]

What a weird ass thing to be asking a 12 year old child. It’s crazy that people don’t see the red flags all over the place in this organization.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

@Keebrev Tbf many teens start touching themselves pretty early, often without even understanding what they're doing. Which is why sex ed is so important. If you don't teach kids about sex they can develop unhealthy habbits

[@cassiusvoidkin]

​@@angelikaskoroszyn8495Why do you consider self pleasuring to be a bad habit? Is it because you're a religious extremist?

[@althechicken9597]

​​​@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 it's none of the bishops business. I personally know multiple people who were sexually assaulted by their bishop and memebers of the bishop brick. They have no reason to be asking these sorts of questions to children they are alone in a room with. And don't pretend it's for "sexual education" every single bishop I've met has believed in promoting chastity through ignorance. (I'm sure there are some exceptions but not many) I lived in a mormon bubble town where the population was mostly mormon and the schools hardly taught Sex Ed. Even when they did, half the class didn't go because their parents said they couldn't know what genitals were actually called. The Sex Ed teacher wasn't even allowed to mention condoms. WE WERE JUNIORS IN HIGH SCHOOL. I was lucky enough to know what to tell the man to get through those bullshit bishop meeting mostly unscathed, but it was a scary experience even for me. A big old man standing over you, asking you invasive questions, and telling you you're failing God by living your life.

[@AgTheFreeborn]

​@cashargis6950 there are kids who hump their chairs in school. It's more about teaching *where* certain things are appropriate.

[@mcrawley48]

I was a member for 7 years, and wasn’t happy with what I saw for at least 5 years. The thing that finished me off was the bishop wanting me to baptize my late father by proxy. When I asked him why I would do that, he said that if I didn’t, then my Dad would never sit at the right hand of god. I told him that if his god didn’t want my Dad at his right hand, then I didn’t think much of his god. Because my Dad was the kindest gentlest man you could wish to meet. He would help anyone. He served his country for 14 yrs in the Army. I never heard him use bad language, and he loved my Mom and my sister and I very much. So I told the bishop what he could do with his god, collected my husband and 2 children, walked out and never went back. Best thing we ever did. Of course in the church records we are EXCOMMUNICATED. Gasp 😂

[@Beeloved936]

Christianity is rather simple!

[@rickyodom1201]

the only one to sit on right hand of god is Jesus the reason is to get heaven if choose to go no body will force them it will be up to them if you not want sit healy father that your chose but all must be given a chance be yee therefore bapized

[@todaywefly4370]

Makes you wonder what mysterious plan that god had when he/they/them orchestrated that whole situation… hey?

[@veganperson466]

That is not true Christianity.

[@adammiller9029]

@@Beeloved936 But... its actually not... It has just as many screwed up rules. Just because the average church goer isn't actually familiar with scripture, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't screwy.

[@Miserycordya]

people in my father's village in northern Portugal were extremely upset on finding out our records were used this way. while I appreciate being able to see hundreds of years of our obscure tiny mountain village's baptismal and death records, I understand why my family feels violated, especially with a very superstitious Portuguese-Catholic background

[@nerveagent1905]

Happened to my sephardic family from Spain, Portugal and Greece. It's part of why I have such emnity for Mormonism.

[@marthamccoog4993]

WHY do you have to be living all the required rules in order to go and receive the ceremonies as a Morman, if they will do all this stuff for you after you are gone?

[@delftblue8801]

But if you don’t believe in it why would it have any power over you?

[@princessadora]

look lady it doesn't mean anything why are you people all so stupid? its like leaving something at your door if you don't want it chuck it in the bin. then you'll have more time to cry about something else.

[@alanarama]

​Because they use it to have power over others

[@SailorSabol]

I’m a Catholic and we accept any baptisms done “In the name of The Father, and of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit” EXCEPT for Mormon baptisms! That’s because the Mormon conception of God and who the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are are just fundamentally and radically different, so the intent of those baptism are inherently different than those of Protestants

[@littledrummergirl_19]

Yes! I was thinking about this too, there’s lists online usually from Dioceses with lists of denominations with which ones have valid or invalid baptisms, in case people are wondering (especially if someone is converting since “re baptism” doesn’t exist so you need to know if they’ve already been validly baptized)

[@fZM0OY]

lol you feel this way about Catholics too?

[@hamwithcheese586]

@@littledrummergirl_19 If you aren’t sure if you were baptized, you can get a conditional baptism. Basically if you have already been baptized, it won’t work.

[@christinaburkemper3105]

My mom converted to Catholicism and when they asked if she'd been baptized, she replied "Yes, many times." I think they did a conditional baptism since she was just a young girl and couldn't remember how the pastor had performed it.

[@IDY2M]

I second that staement. And I would also like to shade some light related to your comment: Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten" The death know nothing, how you can a person baptise for a decease body? That sounds so Agnostic.

[@mls-jp9nb]

Baptism for the dead is why I don’t use a certain free online genealogy site. I could be wrong but all those millions + of names have ID numbers and my suspicion is they end up being baptized without consent.

[@yanyanfourtwenty]

yes, they are being baptized without consent, even though mormon leadership says otherwise...

[@LemonLoafEucharist]

I don’t really understand why it matters. You’re dead, and it doesn’t hurt anyone. Lots of mormon rituals/rules/etc seem harmful, but this one doesn’t to me. Maybe someone could explain it to me.

[@cesarionoexisto2848]

@@LemonLoafEucharist for religious non-mormons it is essentially taking away the religion they followed in life, which is generally a large part of someone's identity

[@stillwatersfarm8499]

@@LemonLoafEucharistIt’s really offensive to Jews whose family members died for being Jewish, for example, for someone to put them on a list of baptized Mormons.

[@ericseamons9982]

I don’t see what the big deal is, especially if you don’t believe that proxy baptism does anything. In the end, it is just another religious ritual that doesn’t change anything for the person.

[@christylane5107]

Thank you for making videos for secular people to see how Mormonism really is

[@alyssadgrenfell]

Thank you for watching 😌

[@pattykake7195]

It’s creepy…🫣

[@fussyrenovator7551]

I’m far too fascinated by this and “ Mormon Stories”.Ive always been really nice th the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the past but I’m changing my tune.

[@jka4649]

You are really brave to share these intimate experiences.

[@julia-jn5zx]

@@fussyrenovator7551the people coming to “share the testimony” from the jehovahs witnesses are just like her if you’ve seen her videos talking about her missionary experience- they’re young indoctrinated individuals that are being pressured to share the message and it’s seen as a rite of passage to do a mission and spread the word so they’re exhausted getting doors slammed in their face for weeks on end, usually paying to be able to do this since they can’t work or be in school while spreading the message (not entirely sure it’s fully the same for jehovahs witnesses but I’ve heard they have a somewhat similar thing to a Mormons idea of a “mission”) so just be nice to them, give them some water or snacks or tea since they’re most of the time basically overworked manipulated kids but firm that you won’t be converting, make them cross your name off their list of homes to return to and if they won’t say you’re a satanist and or gay and they’ll never come back lol

[@adamgreenhaus4691]

I have never been and never will be Mormon, but I do live in Utah. I feel like if I keep watching these videos, a squad of elders in a black van is gonna come and disappear me in the night. I appreciate the education about what my neighbors are up to!

[@princessadora]

🙄

[@talloncusack]

Most Mormons are just regular people, often victims themselves, and they go about their religious business with good intentions toward others. Try to remember that- you always have free will to say no to joining, obviously.

[@talloncusack]

They’re not Scientologists, is what I’m saying

[@mohawkduda8554]

Lolzz

[@soude85]

⁠@@talloncusack Scientologists drive white vans… 🚐

[@watchdog8058]

it is sad that a church with enormous resources and tons of volunteers do not use it for actual needs as you stated. imagine the changes they could make if this was used to train people for jobs, help the homeless, domestic violence safe housing, etc. they could literally change the world!

[@michaelsnell9712]

Assistance is generally quid pro quo in the Mormon church.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

They have a fund of billions.

[@helgardhossain9038]

Please remember: everything in this world is about ENERGY ... 🌎🌍 In what is the Mormon church investing energy ? How much energy (I am not talking about the tithings) does it take from it's believers ? This is nothing one can touch but it is LIFE FORCE and it's real. If it squanders it or invests it into bad things it works for the dark side ... Already the fact that the Mormon church constantly advises: "Read your scriptures !" but trusts "The Book of Mormon" more than the Bible tells TALES.

[@bakoresident6302]

So very sad, and ethically backwards. Imagine what they could do...

[@MichaelOfHerndon]

My friend, you need to do a little more research before makings statements like this. You need to read the Church humanitarian report for the last several years. The church has given over $1B for the last several years to world-wide humanitarian projects. Yes, the Church is doing its part. Imagine if other churches would do this also. Instead, god fearing parishioners contributions seem to mostly go to paying the clergy.

[@julihath8046]

Are Mormons not aware of the Biblical issues related to gold cow statues? That's kind of a strange choice for the baptismal font.

[@nerveagent1905]

No, it's from actual accounts of the temple that it's part of it. Oxen were favored temple sacrifices, highly prized. Broke people donated dovemeat and matzah meal, middle class folks donated sheep and goats.

[@schmidtcs]

The ancient Jewish temple had a “laver” that was essentially what you see pictured. Its use in the ancient Jewish temple was completely different, but it looked the same.

[@charlietwotimes]

Gold cow statues? How about clothing made of mixed fibres? Not mixing meat + dairy? Not shaving the corners of your head? Women keeping their heads covered? They're all Old Testament commandments. Christians like to pick & choose. "Oh the New Covenant did away with all that. Except the gay part. And the cows part. And the (insert your hobby horse here) part. And yet it's all bollocks. All of it.

[@annadrift4]

Seems pretty pagan to me. 😂

[@schmidtcs]

@@annadrift4 you’re wrong. It’s copying the ancient Jerusalem temple.

[@OMGitsaClaire]

About cemetery/headstone photography: as someone who has worked in cemetery conservation, including for city, state, and federal government as is a member of the largest gravestone and cemetery research organization in the world, cemetery and gravestone can photography is actually really important to us because grave markers degrade, get broken, fall over all the time. It helps with historical cemetery management so that we can even begin to guess how many people are in a cemetery and where, which is important for compliance with a lot of laws. Plus it can help people find where relatives are buried. I actually used to use family search a lot to do reverse genealogies to find descendants of people associated with certain archaeological sites and cemeteries for the government (so that we could contact them when/if something happened as that’s often a legal or ethical requirement). It’s one of the only places you can find a lot of census data for free. If you’re just a regular person, you can’t see anything about temple work.

[@s.a.4358]

I see the usefulness of that, but getting young people to take photos of gravestones so that people can be baptised after their death is creepy. The whole idea of having a bunch of young people on a church outing taking photos of gravestones doesn’t sit right.

[@nicknumber1512]

As a Wikipedian who uploads a lot of images to Commons, I have to agree. There's nothing inherently unethical about taking photos of grave markers. They're an important part of human history. Taking that information and trying to posthumously convert people is a different matter. Though personally, not believing in any of it, I just regard it as a somewhat tasteless waste of time.

[@ReverieOfThorns]

That's true, I actually have a lot of photos of old gravestones I've been saving for this reason (I just took them bc I thought they were pretty, don't worry, I was perfectly respectful, I even asked before taking photos and based it off of how I felt at the time before taking or not taking a photo!!) but I really do not like the idea of someone doing that and using them to baptize people after death, it feels like they're forcing their religion onto others and I don't agree with that at all. A lot of people find it to be harmless, but I disagree.

[@brenaiman]

Thank you for talking about this! I converted at 25 and really no idea about baptisms for the dead. (I actually had no idea about the temple at all. I honestly thought it was optional because there’s only 1 in my entire state lol😅) Literally the Sunday I was confirmed (by the way I had FOUR damn men touching my head. 😂) the sisters who taught me told me I needed to get my temporary temple recommend, which I didn’t know existed. I do so, and from that point the missionaries (sisters, elders and seniors) were OBSESSED about me getting to the temple to do baptisms for the dead! I was like, what the hell? No one said anything about this? Facebook messages asking if I could go this week, weekend, etc. interrogation before sacrament meeting! The senior missionaries got me on Family Search, and they pretty much required that I add someone before I could leave the building. It just felt so disgusting to me. Finally, when the sisters explained to me that my baptism did not “save” me, but temple ordinances do, I never came back into the church. I am still disgusted to this day.

[@deecawford]

My husband was raised LDSx, me Baptist. When we found out that his sister who is LDS did a baptism for their deceased father, it was a bad day in that family. Every one of the brothers 3 and 1 other sister were so mad. That is a decision between a person and God. We don’t get to make the choice for others. Luckily my husband converted and he never made our kids go do anything with their family church related. His sister did say 1 time the kids could stay with her and go to church with her. I said no they can stay with you but I will pick them up before church for them to go with us. She said well they can just go with me, I stood firm. My husband didn’t even know what to say. He knew me well enough not to push, of course this was before he converted.

[@BrianTerrill]

It will only affect your husband if our church is true. Think about it, if it is not true, they just got wet on behalf of his relative. Have you ever prayed for a non Christian to accept Jesus? Why are you imposing your religion on people like that!

[@deecawford]

@@BrianTerrill well let’s see here. I don’t agree with the LDS teachings. Where as I took our kids to church back then my husband didn’t participate at all, he slept in. Now, I have always been respectful to his family and they have been the same with me. This is the only time I ever had to say no. We had some teachers and deacons come by one night while being were out side putting up corn. My husband knew them from them coming by to visit a few times. One of them had even changed church’s during this visiting time frame. That night my husband was saved in our yard while putting up corn. Our 11 yr old son was always close by as all of these men talked with my husband. He walked up to my husband crying and said Dad I except Jesus also. I never forced, I was patient, and I definitely prayed.

[@BrianTerrill]

@@deecawford your praying means you forced your religion on someone

[@ForeverFlower]

@@BrianTerrillI don’t agree. If a random person at a coffee shop tells you “have a good day!” are they forcing you to have a good day? No. If you don’t have a good day, they didn’t force you to do anything.

[@BrianTerrill]

@@ForeverFlower that's good philosophy, what's your point?

[@TheKyPerson]

My former (now deceased) husband was a Mormon convert. When my parents died, he had them baptized into the LDS church. I was not happy.

[@lily-rosemtr6394]

If I may ask how was it to be married to a mormon as a non-member (i assume), did he often try to convert you ?

[@TheKyPerson]

He didn't convert until after we divorced. He presented himself as oh so holy but he didn't change any of the reasons why I divorced him. He would send me long emails about the Mormon faith but I would never join. Ever. He died late last year with no one to miss or mourn him.@@lily-rosemtr6394

[@princessadora]

its your parents choice if they accept or not so not your business you need to respect them its their decision.

[@TheKyPerson]

@@lily-rosemtr6394 He joined after we were divorced. He tried to convert me quite often but I am a Catholic and was not convinced.

[@nerveagent1905]

​@@princessadorain the hereafter, may we all laugh at you.

[@SmoreLegend]

Can honestly say this was the single most traumatising experience in Mormonism. Not only was it completely bad vibes bears, I seriously fucked up my back. Was all downhill from there. I’m sorry to all the Jewish people and those who didn’t want a religion assigned to them that I was made to take that decision taken away from. I’m so sorry. edit: sorry I can’t reply to all of you, apparently free speech doesn’t exist on KZbin lmfao

[@lesliebrickey8357]

Don't feel sorry for people to whom they do baptism by proxy. Because it isn't real anyway. Religion only has power over the poor sap living.

[@sunshine72699]

You are not to blame. You were forced and had no informed consent. ❤️❤️❤️

[@SmoreLegend]

@@sunshine72699 thank you for taking the time to type that out. I find it hard sometimes to accept that - as a 12 year old - I wasn’t exactly able to held responsible. My whole experience with how I and many others grew up illuminates the importance of consent on ALL accounts. Dead people included 😣🫶🏻 Much love you to x

[@janefromtennessee]

I am so sorry about your back.

[@katieward9701]

I’m so sorry this happened to you. You should have been protected by the adults in your life, not hurt by them. I hope you are doing better ❤️

[@robynryan7473]

Just when I think Alyssa has taught me everything I wanted to know about all things Mormon I'm pulled back in. I can't get enough. I'm learning so much

[@tillybumbilly]

It's such a trainwreck, I can't stop watching! I can't believe this!

[@dehende07]

Wow that's such a disrespectful act that they baptized Ann Frank

[@ericseamons9982]

I mean, if you believe that baptism is essential for salvation, it makes sense you would want to baptize someone. If Mormonism is False, then no harm no foul. I have many problems with the LDS church, but I think this is one of those issues that is much ado about nothing.

[@craftingranger7552]

​@ericseamons9982 there's no justifying pushing your religion on a dead person....

[@ericseamons9982]

@@craftingranger7552 it’s not pushing if you believe that they can choose to reject it. That is what people in the LDS church are taught. It is like making a burger for someone and saying, “I made a burger for you. It is yours if you want it.”

[@ericseamons9982]

@@craftingranger7552 Also, if the religion is false, it literally has no power. It doesn’t do anything to the dead person and doesn’t affect them in any way.

[@BrianTerrill]

​@@craftingranger7552you know it is scientifically impossible to push your religion on a dead person right? Listening to the kind of crap I hear from critics of Mormonism like this makes me realize the work is true and the devil is real. I also put a flag on my uncles grave every memorial day. He was working for the Navy and as much as I'd like to say he died in World War II for his country, the reality he got drunk and fell off the ship. I don't know if he cares about American flags I do it to honor him because he was a vet qnd my uncle. But he's dead and if atheism is true, he's just a skeleton down a few feet anyways nothing more, so it would be impossible for me to push "patriotism" onto him

[@Charles-yf7kc]

Such a silly ritual that does no good for anyone, except keeping the cult members busy while achieving nothing.

[@BrianTerrill]

Oh that's intelligent, call us a cult, that takes a lot of brains. We could always join the non religious secular world who have everything figured out except basic things like babies born with a penis grow up to be men etc. I mean, if you are still confused I'd suggest you try to milk a cow that was assigned a bull at birth and see how that turns out.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

Do you believe in the God of the Bible? If you do, then you should know that Jesus commanded ALL nations (people) to be baptized. If that is the case, then the LDS Church is the only church doing the world this invaluable service.

[@jezeannwilliams1145]

Baptism is based on an individual's profession of faith that they have in Christ. You can not speak for someone else on that regard. They are essentially playing the fools and wasting time.​@@michaelnicholas5587

[@gunkulator1]

You just described all religions.

[@sunshine72699]

My best friend of nearly 13 years now is ex-mormon. Watching your channel helps me to understand her journey with the church & leaving the church without having to ask her a ton of questions all the time. I'm a Christian myself and its really interesting seeing exactly how different everything is. Thank you for this content ❤️❤️ You're helping me understand my best friends journey and how i can best support her.

[@madizuro498]

It’s been so long that I forgot about the white scrunchies and no nail polish! Getting out of the font in front of everyone was absolutely the most embarrassing thing. Being very self-conscious and ashamed of my (normal) teenage body, it was so humiliating to have the soaking wet, white jumpsuit cling to every inch of me. Afterwards, we were always rushed to get in and out of the shower, dressed, and ready to leave. We would strip off our jumpsuits and white temple-lent underwear (those sports bras had absolutely NO coverage) once we were in the shower, and hand them over to a young women’s leader on the other side. She would then hand over a dry towel. Our dry church clothes were kept in lockers, and we’d have to have a friend hand them to us. The whole thing was just so uncomfortable. If we were lucky, we’d have a few minutes to try to fix our hair and put on makeup, but all of us were self-conscious about our soaking wet hair and bare/bare-ish faces.

[@bigsky14]

I cannot believe there are literally some mormons out there getting baptized on top of 12 golden cows like come ON

[@BrianTerrill]

That Mormons do this is public knowledge and your comment was 1) emotional and 2) stupid.

[@DocReasonable]

Nobody really believes any of this stuff. They just go along with it for family and social reasons. @@BrianTerrill

[@whiskey_pink_42]

SERIOUSLY. I think a lot of people miss that.

[@Iamaldswoman]

I seriously can't believe Jewish do... I can't believe Catholics do... All religions have their rituals. You can either choose to look at it negatively or the good thing it really is. Unless you have had the spirit of God reveal to you of its goodness, I'm not sure you will. It's so easy to hear someone who lived it and left it share all of their negative thoughts and/or experiences, but there are many of us who truly believe in what we are doing.

[@bigsky14]

@@Iamaldswoman Yeah, we know you're committed to it, you literally erected 12 golden idols to it and put a swimming pool on top lmao. Message received don't worry on that front.

[@sarahpinho1114]

One of the greatest challenges I've had since leaving is when sharing my experience I'm argued with and called ungrateful. I wish people were respectful and supportive.

[@ForeverFlower]

That’s so unfair :( Are the people arguing and calling you names still part of the church? What do those who have never experienced Mormonism say when you share your experience?

[@fussyrenovator7551]

Well there is a whole world out here that are respectful and supportive. Stop trying to find that in Mormon friends. You will actually have to break away from them to find support.

[@willj1598]

I understand, as a former member of the other great American religious cult (Jehovah's Witness) It's like you left so you must not have been sincere or know what you're talking about. It's just another way to marginalize people that don't agree. I certainly appreciate hearing other people's perspective but the human fear of critical thinking and open mindedness is very strong. This is why churches thrive. It is more comfortable for your brain to let someone else do the thinking.

[@renaissancewoman3770]

I wish they were for you too. I have so much respect for people who leave, its such a brave thing to do.

[@sarahpinho1114]

@@ForeverFlower it was some of the commenters on this channel, they told me I was ungrateful to call my mission a waste of time. I don't know if they were all still members or not, but it's retraumatizing

[@kateespencer764]

As a child my dad did baptisms for the dead all the time. He’s been baptized hundreds of times!! It’s so wild.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

God bless him for doing the work the Savior commanded!

[@Niobesnuppa]

@@michaelnicholas5587 I hope you're able to leave the cult eventually. Good luck.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@Niobesnuppa I was actually inactive for several years, and amazingly not one person ever came to hound me for my tithing, home teaching (ministering) numbers, or even goad me into going back to church. I did have some members come over to make sure we were doing well, and none of our friends in the church avoided or turned their backs on us. Not very cultish is that.

[@thisiscara9045]

I have to say, I did not expect to find out that my great grandfather who was born, raised and died in a very small Portuguese village has been baptized by the LDS Church post-mortem on a random Sunday night but…. upon checking the records, here I sit with this information 🧍🏼‍♀️

[@chlyri]

really, a sunday? even more hypocrisy.

[@saralyg]

How did you see that? I was looking around on family search but couldn’t find it.

[@thisiscara9045]

@@saralyg Hey!! didn’t see this sorry. I googled the website she talks about in the video and just looked for his name - he has a very rare portuguese name, so coupled with his birth year it was easy to find him. It was creepy, to say the least.

[@ariste01]

Do they not read exodus? One would think they'd have the sense to stay away from any sort of golden bovine.

[@GratiaPrima_]

Not to defend the “Mormons” at all, but I’m pretty sure it’s from the jewish temple setup and not the golden calf incident. The temple had a wash basin for the sacrifices that had 12 calves holding it up. To represent the 12 tribes.

[@nerveagent1905]

​@@GratiaPrima_yep! There was also the 7 branch menorah. Among many Jewish communities, the hanukkiah shouldn't like the common idea of the menorah because the temple menorah should not be replicated. That's why Chabadniks have their triangle menorah and lots of Mizrahim/Sephardim use wall-style oil menorahs.

[@helgardhossain9038]

No, Mormons don't read the Bible. Apparently they study the fairy tales by Joseph Smith so intently that they can recite them while sleeping ...

[@d.n.8919]

@@GratiaPrima_calfs/cows are definitely mentioned multiple times in the Bible and not always in a bad light…buuuuut the golden calf story is one of the most popular Bible stories. I’m not even religious, but the first time I saw the Mormon cow baptismal fonts, I was just thinking “this doesn’t look right” lol 😂 It actually reminded me more of how “satanists” and some types of paganism use goat imagery in a lot of their stuff. I know that goats and cows are different animals, but idk, for some reason that was my first thought because they both have horns lol

[@sueanncooper]

In the '90s in the Provo temple we would regularly get baptized for 40 to 50 people in one night. I remember one trip where I got baptized 70 times.

[@GodaiNoBaka]

Thank you for covering this issue. It is one that is of great concern to many in the Jewish community (among others), since some of the people receiving these posthumous baptisms went to their deaths rather than abandoning their faith, and baptism against their stated wishes is viewed as a slap in the face and completely disrespectful of the Dead. Every once in awhile the issue gets resurrected and receives some press, and the LDS Church does damage control claiming that it is no longer practiced, is not formally authorized by the church, and so forth. However reports from inside the church indicate that the practice is still ongoing.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

That's exactly why we do it; the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15 is a fantastic chapter that explains why this practice is so important. I believe that if someone is willing to die for their faith in God, when they hear the gospel after death (isn't it only just that everyone should have the opportunity to hear the gospel), they will accept the baptism performed in their behalf.

[@GodaiNoBaka]

@@michaelnicholas5587 I understand why you do it. Are you capable of understanding why others might find it offensive?

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@GodaiNoBaka I can understand why people would be offended, but I am not accountable to them, I am accountable to God. Jesus Christ commands that ALL people be baptized. His apostles echoed the same command. I don't do it to offend people, but rather to provide a saving ordinance as commanded by the Savior. Sorry for any discomfort this may cause.

[@GodaiNoBaka]

@@michaelnicholas5587 you don't do it to offend people, but you don't much care if that is an unforeseen (but easily foreseeable) consequence. That's really unfortunate.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@GodaiNoBaka Let me put it this way; if your boss at work asks you to do a task that your coworker was supposed to do but didn't take care of and your coworker tells you to mind your own business, and they will take care of it, who are you going to listen to?

[@katdiggory5501]

I was an exchange student in Utah in a Mormon family. I always thought baptisms for the dead were so weird and it still makes me so uncomfortable. The fact that they baptized Hitler is fucking crazy (especially since I’m German). I love the people and my host family but everything with the temple especially is so weird

[@k.crom22]

I agree it’s so wild but Hitler was a baptized Catholic anyway so technically he was already “saved through faith” but I agree the whole thing is wild

[@anastasijahrsak5751]

​@@k.crom22 well Catholics believe that you can lose your salvation by committing a grave sin and not regretting it and doing penance for it. So for a brief period of time he was, but his actions would tell us that he secured his place in hell

[@ChicaTiquita]

​@@anastasijahrsak5751I'm not Christian but I still hope hell exists. At least for some people.

[@MadameAshlini]

Did they have you participate in their religious activities when you were with them?

[@katdiggory5501]

@@MadameAshlini they did but they never forced me. Sometimes I was super not feeling church but overall it was a good experience. Even tho their teachings made me uncomfortable

[@Elizabeth-hc3mi]

I want to know who the guy was that got baptized for Hilter, probably feeling holier than thou for being so forgiving. Also, I don't know if this is docterine, but I remember being taught that when you die those you were baptized for will be the first to welcome you, and I dont think I want Adolf Hitler welcoming me.

[@s.a.4358]

For real!

[@handuo6301]

“the guy” might also have been a 12-year-old boy without the real ability to say no :/ though i’d like to think it was at least someone who chose to do it, better than foisting that weird guilt on some kid

[@halaheleu7013]

It was my great uncle Jim . He thought someone had to do it . He said he felt a release of a heavy burden along with a special joy and peace thereafter . Sure seemed to be a sign of God's approval. 😮

[@Elizabeth-hc3mi]

@@halaheleu7013 Only the Mormons can believe they have the power to send Hitler to Heaven 🙄

[@michaelnicholas5587]

Doing baptisms for the dead is not a matter of forgiveness on the part of those participating. It is obedience to a commandment that Jesus and the apostles gave us to baptize all.

[@IlizaCrawford]

When I was about 11, my dad (who converted to Mormonism) and my step mom (who was already Mormon) and all of her kids got sealed in the temple as a family while we were on a family vacation. My brother and I had to sit outside of the temple with our step grandma while my birth father got sealed eternally to his new wife and kids. My brother and I felt like our father was replacing us with new kids. As we were sitting out there for what felt like forever, my step grandma kept telling us things like “you could be in there if you just got baptized.”

[@bitterbloodeddemon]

That's awful. How could someone say that to a kid? Step-child or otherwise. ..... I say like my grandma didn't berate me for not joining Eastern Star with her... but still it wasn't quite to that degree. "You could be in there if you just got baptized" how manipulative! Those ceremonies can take forever too. Seriously they could have just done that on their own time. It feels like that was a deliberate slap in the face.

[@GratiaPrima_]

And the LDS really think experiences and comments like that make people want to join…. Wow. Nope, it tells us even more so the truth we already knew that it’s a cult. Period.

[@24_karot]

I want to downvote this because that's a horrible experience and giving it a thumbs up feels wrong. I'm so sorry you experienced that.

[@ForeverFlower]

32:49 “for anyone recovering from Mormonism” I love your channel

[@iianebb_0613]

As someone who loves databasing activities this peaks my interest BUT it's still messed up in all levels when you really think about it.

[@resstie]

Same. Strictly the record keeping and digitazing info aspect is incredible, the reason for that and what they do with it is messed up to 11

[@mysticwater9056]

It’s genuinely so fucked up and disrespectful to Anne frank and countless other Jewish people that they have done this to because they were massacred BECAUSE of their religion/culture so I highly doubt if any of them had a voice today that they would accept or be honored by such offensive and disrespectful act

[@m_here1]

Not to mention living Jews are saying it’s offensive and disrespectful.

[@gulfcityswampwitch7108]

I was always so scared that I would never be able to go to the celestial kingdom, bc no matter what ancestors I baptized and sealed, I couldn't get my mom sealed to anyone (she wasn't married or sealed in the temple) so my line would still be lost, bc of the disconnect.

[@Chels-fz5uq]

And a young girl surrounded by only men with no female or parent present is so creepy! No way in hell would my child be subjected to any of that?

[@skilynnclari]

It can be a male relative of yours who does it if they're a member. My dad was the one who would baptize me, but I was always viscerally uncomfortable at the idea of it being someone other than him. Even just the fact that it was a bunch of men I didn't know who did the observing made me uncomfortable! The last time I did baptisms for the dead was like, fifteen years ago at least, but I still remember how uncomfortable almost every part of the experience was vividly.

[@ReverieOfThorns]

The temple I went to you were behind glass so everyone could see still since everyone that was waiting to have their baptisms done and everyone that wad there to chaperone and everyone there done with their baptisms could sit on some chairs in front of the glass. The baptismal font was usually in front and the confirmation rooms on the sides. I do agree, though, even with the glass because you had to walk a long ways to get to the other side of the glass and someone could very well still do something heinous in that time

[@shelagh7850]

I have officially left the church and yesterday I went into Family Search and deleted my tree and put as my first name Shelagh and last name Do Not Baptize. I think they'll get the message.

[@gunkulator1]

Don't sweat it. Mormon magic spells don't work. Then again, neither do any of the others. Let the babies have their rattles.

[@princessadora]

yeah someones definitely going to we have members like that

[@princessadora]

just out of interest how do you leave the church if you're not even a member ?

[@BrianWaller-qe7gr]

When I was active I just couldn’t do the family history. My child hood was so traumatic(father abandonment and sexual abuse). My childhood has dramatically effected my life and how it has played out. I cannot seem to form any type of connection with the opposite gender, I’m heavily introverted, have very few friends, no kids, and most of my life felt like an alien walking around the earth.

[@Faythe98]

I feel like that too. I attend a group called adult children of alcoholics and it’s helped me a lot. It’s for people who grew up in dysfunctional families. I hope you can find some healing ❤

[@dehende07]

Praying and wishing you healing and peace

[@suerasley7237]

The biggest argument my brother (lds) and I (never lds) ever had as adults was when I found out that he was doing baptisms for the dead for our staunch Lutheran great grandfather. We didn't talk for a few years after that. Wish he would have let me know that the departed has the opportunity to decline, would have had us talking sooner. Guess I'm going to have to make sure he hasn't sealed me to my ex also. Thanks for all that you share!

[@michaelnicholas5587]

Why would anyone think the deceased are obligated to accept? Common sense isn't very common.

[@thebigmac01]

You can’t seal a living person by proxy. Only dead people. And if you don’t think the LDS religion is valid, why would any proxy ordinance after death matter at all? If it’s not valid, it wouldn’t count for anything.

[@Lioru92]

During my stint in the church, I did this. It sits wrong with me now, but back then I was told that everyone dead was learning the scriptures and WANTED this done. 😢

[@katieward9701]

You couldn’t have known, you were kept uneducated on purpose. You’re not the problem ❤️

[@michaelnicholas5587]

Whether they WANTED it done or not, it has to be done to fulfill all righteousness as Jesus said. Baptism for the dead will be an integral part of how we are judged, 1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

[@nerveagent1905]

​@michaelnicholas5587 What a sad, sick joke

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@nerveagent1905 Not a sick joke, a duty to God, and a blessing for those that receive it.

[@nerveagent1905]

@@michaelnicholas5587 Joseph Smith wasn't talking to the Lord.

[@glittergal0701]

Exmo here. I remember one temple trip where after I finished getting baptized, I realized I had forgotten an extra (all-white) bra. I had to stand in the dressing room with my bra under the hand dryer 💀 I didn't dry it fully because we were so rushed so when we went to the temple cafeteria (omg the food there was so good), my bra soaked through my dress in front of everyone 😭 Including my crush! It was MORTIFYING. Or the time I brought white underwear with very very light gray polka dots and the temple matron said it was a no-go so I had to use temple-provided underwear 😖 So many bad experiences, glad I'm out

[@monicaokungbowa4246]

Honestly so weird now… like pov im 14 just got done with soccer now i have to rush to the church to drive 30 min to the temple, do these baptisms, get in n out with all the teens, then get back home at 9:30pm at night and get ready for 6am seminary :)))

[@BrianTerrill]

The church didn't tell you you had to do soccer, some people blame everything on the church

[@philbrooks5979]

Typical cult tactic is to keep members overworked and busy otherwise they might start asking questions that can lead to doubting the faith.

[@monicaokungbowa4246]

@@philbrooks5979 yep!!

[@monicaokungbowa4246]

@@BrianTerrill of course they didnt. Im sharing how a typical school day was for me and how the church made it so busy

[@d.n.8919]

@@BrianTerrillhow dense are you? This person wants to do soccer, but doesn’t want to do the church activities lol

[@gleebling]

i really enjoy these longer videos. they're so informative and your voice pleasant to listen to! 😊

[@Kate._._.]

Alyssa, tbh i have so much i want to say having grown up in the church but idk how to express it and my anxiety still goes through the roof thinking about my experiences in the church. Thank you for saying all the quiet parts out loud. ❤

[@donaldhysa4836]

What were your experiences in the church? You didn't get to have as much sex with your bf as you wanted? You didn't get to wear a particular hairstyle that you wanted? Tell me more of your first world problems with the LDS Church

[@xail3390]

Okay, I am not religious but I come from a very catholic country. So, when I first read: baptized for the dead I was like: Weird but ok, maybe is similar to the oils. ....... Aaaand I was wrong. This is nuts, like. There is a major difference between the catholic oils and this: consent. In catholicism there is 3 types of oils: Oleum Catechumenorum or Oleum Sanctum (the oil of cathecumens) they used for baptism and symbolizes purification and strength; Oleum Infirmorum (the oil of the sick) they used for sick people or that they're closed to die and it's used to take away the illness or give the affection and console if not curable; and the last one is the Sacrum Chrisma (sacred balm), the most important one, they used it in special occasions because it's not bless as the other two, it's consecrate because it's the power of the Holy Ghost (Spirit? Idk, English is weird to me). So they can only make it in the Holy Thursday during the Chrism Mass with the collaboration of numerous bishops. They used only in special occasions as Baptisms, the First Communion (the first time a child goes into the Eucharist) and Confirmation. It used to symbolizes that you are willing to follow the faith and trust in God or something among those lines, so it confides you part of the power of the Holy Ghost as a good Christian. So I thought initially that I would be like the oil of the sick: a ill person WILLINGLY going to the church asking for a last blessing to feel the affection of God and their loved ones before it's their time to go. But this... This can't be right... Like, there is no consideration of the poor person who died... There is no consent in this whatsoever. I'm not a fan of catholicism (or any kind of faith if I'm being honest) but this is just nuts. This is not personal faith, this is imposition and it's not right.

[@helgardhossain9038]

Catholic here ... Thank you for the English explanation. Definitely - I agree with you a 💯 %. All religious institutions serve the dark side. And all this coercion, manipulation & forcing in Mormonism is unethical and unlawful.

[@TheCripeCrew]

I was an adult convert for a short amount of time. I did baptisms once but quit before my endowment. I was interested in genealogy before becoming a member (it’s one of the ways they hooked me in) and I remember the ward being excited because my family tree researched back to the 16th century was basically fresh meat. After I left the church I tried to delete my tree off FamilySearch and discovered it’s impossible to do that. One nuance your non-Mormon viewers may not realize is since the only thing teenagers can do at the temple are baptisms, they’re usually the only ones doing baptisms. When I first got my temple recommend I got sent along with the youth trip to the temple. Imagine a heavy-set middle-aged woman being dunked by a scrawny teenage boy. The first time I went under my feet slid out from under me and the boy wasn’t strong enough to pull me back up again! I started flailing around like I was drowning! After a couple more failed attempts they had to go get an adult male temple worker to go throw on a jumpsuit and take over. One of the adult chaperones on the trip told me she saw the spirits of my grandparents watching in approval. I hadn’t seen or felt anything but the pressure to have a spiritual experience at the temple is so strong that I lied and said I saw them too. Thankfully it took me less than a year to realize the whole thing was a scam and request my name to be removed from the membership.

[@anibalybarrarojas]

my father was also baptized/confirmed post mortem. His Mormon friend (who was also my mom's masters advisor and sat on her thesis panel) at least asked him close to his death if he would consent to it. Which is cool. One rare part was that he was (inducted?) after his proxy baptism into the Melchizedek Priesthood. At least that is what his friend said.

[@RLS-bu4bj]

I found out while doing genealogy that I have at least one ancestor who this was done to. It felt very violating to know this was done to someone who died prior to the founding of Mormonism.

[@Bbpierced]

How were you able to find out?

[@michaelnicholas5587]

It wasn't done to them; it was done FOR them. The ordinance of baptism is necessary not only for salvation, but for righteous judgment.

[@KristenK78]

⁠@@michaelnicholas5587if the person being baptized cannot consent, and their parents cannot consent on their behalf, it is in fact done TO them. Saying they can consent or not in the afterlife is farcical.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@KristenK78 Are you a Christian? Do you not think that God loves ALL of his children (us)? Why would he not allow every single one of his children to hear his gospel? Isn't that the only way he could make a just judgment? I believe the next post in this thread is mine; I encourage you to read the scripture passages I listed and ponder them. Then, take the advice of James 1:5 and ask God in faith whether these things are true. I hope it will give you a better understanding why we do what we do.

[@gunkulator1]

@@michaelnicholas5587 If God wants everyone to hear his gospel. he can make that happen all on his own. He doesn't need any magic spells from human beings.

[@hyates9653]

Thank you for such well though out and descriptive videos! You really are a wealth of information and keep up the good work! We are all rooting for you, you’re doing amazing❤️💕

[@BrianTerrill]

I'm working on a video comparing modern LDS Temples to King Solomons Temple, you'll probably not like it because unlike the lady in these videos, I actually love the temple. I'm also doing a research project about ancient Usraelite feast. On Sukkot the Priest would perform sacrifices on behalf of all nations, they did it regardless if the other nations believed in Jehovah or not.

[@Flyingtaco82]

That’s such a violation to ancestors who didn’t consent before passing away. 😢

[@ArtGirl82]

My aunt is a convert to the LDS church, so I'm pretty sure this has happened to my dead, VERY Catholic and VERY Anglican relatives. In fact, I distinctly remember my father telling me that all our family records had been collected and stored in that big vault. I thought it was great at the time, because it sounded like our family was a part of an international genealogy project, but now it makes me feel like we got duped.

[@gunkulator1]

The dead can't be harmed or effected by this. Then again, neither can the living. Mormon voodoo doesn't work any better than any other kind of voodoo.

[@eringrl101]

@@gunkulator1it’s not about the efficacy, it’s about a person showing that they have no regard for anyone else’s choices, opinions, or major beliefs.

[@jayceefullmer-gs9mv]

Hey if this ever reaches you!! you are doing incredible work!! thank you for holding my hand through my really rough deconstruction from the church! i love you and never let anyone stop you from telling the truths that they smother!

[@jonjahr3403]

Great video, I used to want to do a baptism for the dead for my late uncle who died in a worl related accident when he was only 20. Looking back now, I am so glad I never got the chance. Because not only do I no longer believe, but from what I've heard about him. I don't think he would've wanted it.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

According to LDS doctrine, people can refuse to be baptized. Anne Frank probably refused 😂.

[@jonjahr3403]

@@charlesmendeley9823 If they can refuse to be baptized in heaven. Why would they need to have a baptism done here on earth? Either way, it is still disrespectful to baptize dead holocaust victims.

[@ericseamons9982]

@@jonjahr3403 If someone was never given a proper chance to accept the gospel here. Mormons believe that in the spirit world, missionaries will preach the gospel to them if they were never taught the gospel here on earth.

[@ericseamons9982]

@@jonjahr3403 If the LDS church was using dead bodies in the rituals or using possessions of the deceased, I agree it would be extremely disrespectful. But all they do is say the name in a short ritual. Materially nothing changes. If it is true, it is a great service because the person can choose to refuse the ritual. if it is false, then it does nothing and nothing materially changes.

[@nerveagent1905]

​@@ericseamons9982 For Jews, our names are important. I wouldn't be surprised if you dug up the poor girl's Hebrew name just to desecrate her memory further.

[@Topazdolphin23]

I love your content, Alyssa! Thank you for using your voice. I have to say, it’s so creepy to me that the ads I get on your videos are frequently ads for the LDS church and even other scams. They really know how to prey on the vulnerable

[@melody_shmelody]

I had no idea this was why Mormons are so into genealogy. This is fascinating.

[@helgardhossain9038]

Well, they are ALSO into genealogy, because they want to prove that Joseph Smith is a descendant of Jesus Christ - which he isn't. What a surprise. Jesus Christ had red hair and was well educated (and monogamous) ...

[@2LucidDream]

back in the 70s I did this, the SLC baptismal font was cool but everything else was so rushed (talking to fast) I found nothing sacred about it. There was a couple of us kids went through with the name "John John" which had us scratching our heads.

[@juliemorton-yates6023]

I was friends with Mormons when I was in middle/high school. I used to call their temple 'The Mormon Batcave'. To say theey weren't amused is an understatement 😂😬

[@alexisturner1661]

Is it just me, or was the jumpsuit and the other things you had to wear in the showers super sheer? It was a long time ago, but I remember back in the locker area I was given a thing to wear to the showers that was completely open on the sides? I just remember feeling super exposed and uncomfortable.

[@BrianTerrill]

When I've taken a shower after doing baptisms at the temple I wear the same thing I wear when taking a shower at home, nothing. That ms how shower ms are done.

[@jordanhinckley7066]

I mean, temples are less common but in Salt Lake they FEEL like they are everywhere!

[@adamgreenhaus4691]

They’re building them like crazy on the Wasatch front now.

[@woof64]

100% agree, churches feel like they're on every corner and temples can be seen from anywhere in and near slc. No matter where you look theres at least one lol

[@whiskey_pink_42]

I could look out our second story window and see four.

[@LeggoMy3ko]

thats cuz they areeee everywhere there, lordy

[@beekeeper2036]

This is all so weird. Sooooo much weirder than i knew😂Thank you. I am loving your content.

[@libbythelobster]

make a video about the general conference! The mormons I know are crazy about watching the sermon videos, even getting together as a family to watch them together intentionally. It feels like they hold this conference so highly

[@michaelnicholas5587]

If you are really interested in finding out about the doctrine, General Conference is a good way to get an education.

[@mi_kirsh]

I am so glad you’re explaining this. When I toured the DC temple during their open house in 2022, they touched on this when we toured the font room (or whatever its called) and I was confused.

[@mi_kirsh]

And I’m still confused. So, I can live an unholy life, drink a lot of coffee, not be a Mormon, but 95 years after I die I’ll be baptized as a Mormon posthumously and will then get in to heaven and be assigned a husband?! Like, is that what I am piecing together?

[@cesarionoexisto2848]

the video of the baptism looks horrible. kids being repeatedly pushed underwater by adult men?? and not really being able to say no? like thats objectively awful

[@BrianTerrill]

1) they are not kids, they are youth 2) your comment was emotional boo hoo sensationalism rather than any objective comment.

[@melima_]

​@BrianTerrill lmao how can someone be so indoctrinated. If you church leaders saw you watching these kinds of videos they would believe you are doubting your beliefs. But thanks for giving money to Alyssa :)

[@jasonnewby]

i did it when i was 13 or so? not really sure but i do remember feeling like i was drowning. it was so fast over and over again. do not recommend.

[@nerveagent1905]

​@@BrianTerrillis that how you justify doing that? What worse have you done with that same justification?

[@althechicken9597]

The dunking is not the awful part, my friend. It's just like going under in a hot tub for 3 seconds. They even have you hold your nose. The awful part is the implications this practice has. The feeling of not being able to say no, because thousands of dead are relying on you, and the thought that if this is true, millions of people will be forever trapped in purgatory because their names were forgotten. It was a huge burden on my 12 year old conscience. And if not true, you're wasting your Saturday in a weird hot tub thats on a cow instead of playing halo 3 with your homies. (This last part is comedic satire folks, it's how I cope with being in a cult for years.)

[@blondieHPfan10113]

Thanks for making this video, I am an exmo that left at 13yrs, and a huge part of the push to leave was this temple experience (it's the only thing I personally experienced in the temple as a mormon) I've done I think only 2 or 3 of these before breaking down, praying about it because I was so uncomfortable with the lack of consent and everything else you talked about, and I felt the most potent dread after that prayer because I realized I needed to leave, and the hardest thing that dawned on me then is that I didn't have a shelf break in the same way as a lot of exmos, i always asked my mom questions about that cause I knew no one else would give me a honest answer and she'd sometimes tell me she wasn't sure. Once I experienced temple work I had doubts during all of those experiences, it was a lot of seeing it for how messed up it is, then feeling shame cause we're taught that's Satan, and feeling like I needed to leave this church all at once was so much. My temple experience was traumatic enough for me to disassociate a lot during it. I did also have to remove nail polish 😑 Thanks if you read all this, and i really liked this video ❤

[@princessadora]

you had to remove your nail polish? the horror!.

[@blondieHPfan10113]

@princessadora if that's all you got out of my comment you missed the point

[@lindas.8036]

Hubby's family is Mormon, Salt Lake City area. Hubby's grandfather, as an older gentleman at the time, was participating in the temple to move up a step in some part of the organization (we do not know specifically what), He was required to walk down a long aisle wearing nothing but his temple clothing. Unfortunately, he had been wounded in (we think) WWI, and had lost a leg. He was made to remove his artificial leg and crawl down the aisle before the congregation. After the ceremony, humiliated beyond belief because of the cruelty perpetrated upon him, he left the church, never to return. I wish we had more details, but do not. Thank you for the videos.

[@NerfHerder909]

I remember looking on Family Search years ago and seeing that the Church had not only baptized Adolf Hitler posthumously, but they also baptized Eva Braun and sealed them together. How thoughtful! [/sarcasm] And I think what gets left out of the Jewish Holocaust victims thing sometimes is not just that they were murdered in the Holocaust, and baptizing them alongside Adolf Hitler is gross, but also that they were murdered, famously, FOR BEING JEWS. Their Jewish identity was the whole reason that they died in these horrible ways by the millions in the first place. So for an organization that is already supercessionist in its beliefs (i.e. claiming to have the "true" Temple ceremony, being the "true" inheritors of the Jewish priesthood, et cetera) then subsuming these Jewish people into their records after their deaths is particularly upsetting and offensive. It's not that Jewish people believe that their relatives are now Mormon, it's that they don't want their family members' names anywhere on the rolls of the Mormon Church, because decades from now, if someone goes looking and sees this, they may think that these Jewish people actually converted to Mormonism at some point (which indeed is the hope of the people doing the baptizing, albeit for a posthumous conversion). The whole thing leaves such a terrible taste in my mouth, honestly, and I have zero doubt that there are still people baptizing famous people and Holocaust victims as I type this.

[@helgardhossain9038]

Oh dear ... 😮

[@DeathoftheEndless7]

It feels like another form of Holocaust denial, tbh.

[@m_here1]

THANK YOU. This is exactly it as a Jewish person. We just want to be left alone, and we’re constantly everyone’s political ping pong, objective of ire, or obsession to the point of concern. It’s exhausting, especially since most people know very little about us (despite what they think they know about us). We have our way of life, we have our culture, and we don’t push it on others. We just want to be left alone.

[@TheTracynusbaum]

Thank you for speaking on this. It's incredibly offensive to us in the Jewish community.

[@alyssadgrenfell]

I’m so sorry 😞 it should be illegal.

[@blackalien6873]

Why? If you don't believe in the Mormon joojoo why do you care what nonsense they do in their closed temples?

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@alyssadgrenfell Why should it be illegal? It is a commandment of Jesus that ALL should be baptized.

[@nerveagent1905]

​@@michaelnicholas5587Jesus means nothing to us

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@nerveagent1905 He may not now, but He most certainly will someday.

[@ckblackwoodmusic]

Thanks again for making these ❤

[@Kamarin_Ann]

I remember laughing so hard I was crying when reading the Mormon church was utilizing German papers to baptize Jews. They were so polite and basically said, “please stop” 😂🙈

[@BrianTerrill]

Isn't that a weird reaction to have? It sounds like if anyone is in a cult you are if you both laugh and cry about reading something

[@ForeverFlower]

@@BrianTerrillI think the op is astonished by the irony of it, considering the political history of Jews and Germans…

[@BrianTerrill]

@@ForeverFlower the irony is that information is preserved by the Jews in the Holocaust museums and other places because it is what it is, historical records.

[@pepperread1184]

Fantastic video! Thank you for explaining. Your content is so interesting and your presentation is very well done.

[@brokenhippie134]

I happened to be camping near the temple in nauvoo Illinois when it was just built and had not yet been dedicated and they allowed non-mormons inside. That's when I saw the baptism area for the first time. It's a crazy coincidence that I happened to be there during that time because I had very little knowledge of the religion prior to walking through that temple

[@jessicachatwin1336]

A video of yours came up on my fyp on TikTok, and I’ve been binging these KZbin videos you made. Thank you for this information. I am not Mormon and I never will be, but I live in a smaller town with an LDS church, they teach in the schools, etc. My daughter dated the bishops son in grade…9, for about a year. Man that was rough. There was definitely a manipulation to get her to their house one afternoon and they trapped her there with missionaries and she locked herself in the bathroom and had a panic attack. I didn’t know what I do now, but so grateful to have this extra insight. So happy you made it out!

[@purrsephone2904]

I joined as a teenager, and I would hear about kids going to the temple to do baptisms for the dead. I think I felt a little left out that I was never asked to do this. I also was never asked or invited to go to Mormon girls' camp. I always felt like an outsider.

[@willj1598]

As kids, we are more bothered by being left out than the merit of the thing we are left out of. Both religion and child abusers exploit this tendency of children and it is evil on both accounts

[@bagthecadran]

One thing I’m wondering is if LDS belief were to be correct, why would I bother joining the church in life if I could just be baptized in death? They seem pretty liberal on who they proxy baptize so it’d be a best of both worlds: A fulfilling sinful life and eventually ending up in spirit paradise after a short sentence in spirit prison.

[@stevedawson256]

They want to baptise you while you're alive so they can get you to pay tithe thay can't get your money when your dead..

[@DocReasonable]

This is the only way they can get new members.

[@SandraLugn-nc1rk]

I fear the child-bearing and home- schooling is effective to. ☹️

[@凯思]

They are one of the fastest growing religions/cults counting only live, consenting adults.

[@DocReasonable]

This is what a seriously butthurt crybaby looks like ---> @@WatchingwaitingG2D

[@DocReasonable]

This is what a seriously butthurt crybaby looks like ---> @@WatchingwaitingG2D

[@DocReasonable]

Don't get your magic undies in a twist, morgbot. @@WatchingwaitingG2D

[@peggystoutemorin4529]

I find it interesting that they allow a kid to participate in a macabre practice of baptism for the dead, yet she was clueless about the "law of chastity". I would think they would be drilling that into the heads of Mormon kids constantly. It's all about fear and control. What a crock of 💩! As if life isn't hard enough, they layer on all their BS rules and weird practices. Power to the ones who leave.

[@Bugiddle]

My dad (now deceased, 2020 😥) had said that he envied people who saw spirits of the departed in the temple. He wanted one of those experiences greatly. He told me some stories once of people who had seen departed souls. And frankly, it scared the bejeebers out of me! I have not believed in the Church since my early 20's, so about 38 years now. It's so freeing. I never have gone through the temple for endowments, but did get baptized for the dead on a couple occasions. Also, a little story: I went as a teenager (fully believing Mormon then) to the Seattle Temple Dedication Ceremony. While they were doing the hosanas, I suddenly got a very bad feeling. It was almost like a whisper, someone saying "You should NOT be here!" I was confused, since I knew I was "worthy" to attend, based on Mormon standards. I brushed it off, but then several years later, it all made sense. After I had done a lot of research and study about the Church, with my sister. I'm so thankful I have a critical mind.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

Did you ever understand the doctrine? All of these people with "critical minds" don't ever use those minds to contemplate the doctrine and what we are doing here.

[@Bugiddle]

@@michaelnicholas5587 I was born in the church. I know the doctrine. I'm sorry, but I used critical thinking to study true Christian beliefs compared to Mormon beliefs, and to test whether Joseph Smith was a true prophet. What I discovered at 22 has not changed at all. Further discoveries by others since then have only bolstered my knowledge that Mormonism is not true. Many Mormons are afraid to do a deep dive into the church and its truth claims.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@Bugiddle Please explain to me what doctrine you think the LDS has wrong. I use critical thinking as well, and don't rely on the thoughts and opinions of people with an agenda against the truth pointing out faults of people that are not here to defend themselves. I am more than happy to discuss doctrinal differences.

[@Bugiddle]

@@michaelnicholas5587 It would take hours and volumes to tell you what doctrines of the church are wrong. But let's start with Joseph Smith. He was a false prophet. The Book of Mormon is not an ancient record. Therefore, just with that knowledge alone, everything falls like a house of cards.

[@michaelnicholas5587]

@@Bugiddle That's what I'm talking about, no doctrine, just character assassination against someone not here to defend themselves. Give me 3 incorrect doctrines taught in the LDS Church. Just because you were born in the church (and at the ripe old age of 22 realized you knew all the doctrine), doesn't mean you know the doctrine.

[@kentuckylady2990]

We had that issue when a grandmother died. The biggest part of the family were upset. It was years before we got an apology.

[@Alice-qt9mz]

What does 'holding the priesthood' mean exactly? because I have heard it in so many different contexts (within mormonism) and its a bit confusing. Are there requirements for getting the priesthood other than being a man?

[@bitterbloodeddemon]

Age.

[@blackalien6873]

No. Every LDS/Mormon male over 12 is given the priesthood. If you are excommunicated for breaking the rules then you no longer have it. It's all BS.

[@maddykrantz]

My friend is a baptist, and she was baptised as a baby, and she was furious when I told her about Mormon baptisms for the dead, because for her family, they're all already baptised, and to her, the idea that she had been baptised in the "wrong religion" upset her. She loves God and her faith, and for her, the idea that others want to try and "change her faith" once she is dead is wrong. I, as a jew, agree that the practice is horrible. I love god and my religion, and I would hate to die and be asked "do you want to join the Mormon church?" in the afterlife. It already sucks when it's done IRL.

[@lareineii]

Exactly imagine being bothered in the afterlife to join mormonism yet again by these ppl 😂 😢

[@lowelllipton4290]

terrific personal and thoughtfully persuasive vids

[@watchdog8058]

never morman here-thank you for putting this info out! it is so fascinating!

[@ayellowpapercrown6750]

When my uncle, aunt and I (all Jewish) went to see the Book of Mormons on the West End for a fun night out this is all we knew about LDS because of how much outrage it sparked in our community when the news came to us. Crazy stuff honestly, thank you for talking openly about it. We have a few names to check on these online records unfortunately.

[@Kerryjotx]

I actually many times have said, “Wow! Look at all this information that keeps getting added to my family tree!” I’ve seen pictures of relatives gravestones. I’ve heard for many, many years that Mormons were collecting genealogy records, but I didn’t know why. I have such mixed feelings about it now I appreciate all the information about my background because I have learned amazing thing going back to the 1500 but I don’t want them to perform any ceremonies on my family members I wish they were an “opt out” choice. I naïvely just thought y’all were doing this because it was a nice thing to do for the world on the surface level of building family trees. I had no idea about the motives.

[@ljm792]

The Temple: What if the experience of pilgrimaging to a Cathedral in the Middle Ages and pilgrimaging to Disneyland as a 12 year old was both

[@BrianTerrill]

Obviously antiMormonism is a cult which is why you get these histerical responses to 12 year olds (not kids) going to the temple to do baptisms for the dead.

[@jeffs4483]

@@BrianTerrill No such thing as an 'anti-Mormon'. Most people just think your cult is silly.

[@BrianTerrill]

@@jeffs4483 well I think your antiMormon is silly and in denial of being a cult

[@TZ3991C]

I have binge watched your videos since yesterday and I just had no ideia of most of it. I am absolutely blown away!!! All of it is kinda insane! Love how detailed and educational you are with the videos!!

[@naomis2]

I’m so glad you made this video. I was curious about how the baptism of the dead worked.

[@talloncusack]

I’m a genealogy enthusiast and had no idea how much on these databases was due to Mormonism. I am genuinely thankful but like you said, it’s conflicting in terms of their motivations for the work…Also, the fact that they sell this info to data brokers is heinous- although they’re not alone in this…they’re just more a part of our current late capitalist hellscape than I’d even imagined (and I knew the Mormons were a modern bureaucratic organization as much as a traditional religion)

[@eloisaoliveira5625]

Really nice video, Alyssa! I really appreciate the longer format 😊

[@delphinewartelle8106]

So in Europe, we have a lot of data protection laws. I live in Poland and, recently, there have been big moves for people to remove their names from the Catholic Church. You can always declare to the Church that you are no longer interested and that you're leaving, essentially excommunicating yourself. However, the Church still hopes you will return so they keep records. Using those European data protection laws, regular people have gone up to the Church and said, I do not approve of you holding my data. Theoretically, it should do the trick. Would such a thing work to counter Mormon death baptisms? Also, question about ex-mos- do current Mormons baptize ex-mos as well?

[@stan_sr1315]

It's incredible to me how modern this is in terms of its institutional structure and management. As a Jew, I cannot imagine having to present an ID card proving that I had a Bar Mitzvah (or something else, ahem) in order to enter a synagogue, much less that same synagogue having detailed and digital records going back centuries. To be clear, I'm not passing judgment or anything this is just fascinating.

[@Wilddesertdancer]

Thank you for making this content. Keep it up 🙌

[@onceuponamelody]

For Mormon people who don't think it's disrespectful, how would you like if I prayed to Satan or the Norse gods for you?

[@ChildlessCatLady]

As a person of the Jewish Faith, I find this highly offensive!

[@ChicaTiquita]

Yes, totally. I feel sick now watching that. I swear if I ever find out one of my dead relatives got baptised by Mormons, I might personally travel to the US...

[@GFordGoodlife]

Thank you for always putting so much research and thought into your videos. Was wondering if at some point you could give your take on Mormon culture vs doctrine. When I was deconstructing that was often the argument brought up along with the “people are imperfect…” Also just ordered your book, so excited to read! 😊

[@Sammysamwise]

I had a lot of Mormon friends growing up. When I was 14 the new Mormon temple just finished being built and my friend offered to take me on a tour of the temple. It was a very beautiful temple, the room on the top floor(the room with the two giant mirrors facing each other) kinda freaked me out little though.

[@imateakettle]

I remember moving to Utah and the first time I heard of baptisms for the dead, I thought that they were baptizing dead bodies. That is how outlandish some of their practices are, that I would honestly believe that they would baptize a dead body.