America Hates Electric Vehicles - Why Is That?

[@SasukeUchiha-zu6dw]

We don't hate them, we just hate being forced into them before we am ready. We hate that when we bring up any cons for why we don't want one yet we are told basically that those cons don't matter or that you just have to work around them or it's not really a con but an education problem.

[@colten53]

Or that those cons will be fixed in time. Sure technology does advance but that’s a hypothetical when people are basing purchasing decisions off of what makes sense for them right now in the present and near future. We were also told that we’d have lunar colonies by now

[@JollyGiant19]

Don’t forget that combustion cars weren’t ready either (or computers or phones or the internet), this is just how all technologies progress

[@SasukeUchiha-zu6dw]

@@JollyGiant19 of course which is why the mandates to switch have got to be removed until the issues are solved by the free market.

[@Pillokun]

dont bother, they are an EV centric youtube channel, everything that is said that they dont like will be taken as that people hate them... @SasukeUchiha-zu6dw and there is no free market, it is what government and their friends decide to force upon us. :P

[@993mike]

I too hate being forced in the upcoming years into buying an EV. As a fan of performance ICE cars and mechanical objects in general, soulless EV’s just leave me cold. It’s like giving up my Rolex Submariner for an iWatch - that’s just not happening for me

[@Fayt262]

The biggest problem for me with switching to an EV is infrastructure. The nearest charging station is 30 min. Away. Charging at home is not happening since i wouldn't be able to upgrade my house without paying a fortune. Also my cars are all old. I can't afford a 30-50k car. Im afraid EVs wont last past 15 years old. Which is how old the price range of cars i can afford.

[@Cornelius87]

Exactly my case and that's what one of these guys was saying that it's also a social issue. The people buying these EVs are the ones who have the luxury to buy a new car, own a home, install a charger, and get rid of said car and buy a new one before it gets too old. People can buy a 2004 civic for like $3k or less. Would the people buying that car be willing to pay $3k for a 2004 model 3 (if it existed) knowing the battery is heavily degraded and will probably need replacement soon?

[@Ellecram]

@@Cornelius87 Same with me. There is no way to install and/or use a home charger where I currently live. I park on the street and parking is random. I would not be able to run a cord all the way across a sidewalk and strip of grass even if I could install a charger. The nearest local charger is about 15/20 minutes away and that is the only option. I will keep my ICE car as long as possible and will not be buying an EV anytime soon.

[@johnwolf3294]

EVs aren't for everyone. I don't understand all the hate, though. People are keying Tesla's and other vandalism. Baffles me

[@leeprice2849]

The most environmentally friendly vehicle is the one you don't have to replace.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

My 98 Sentra with a manual trans in a nutshell.

[@melrose9252]

@@fortheloveofnoise< You are bold to admit you drive that.

[@ThatsMrPencilneck2U]

@@melrose9252 A car is a hole in the street you throw your money into. Manual vehicles are becoming very, very rare, and automatics suck. A 98 Sentra, with a stick is probably a whole lot more fun than whatever you drive.

[@davroscaan1318]

Not sure my 71 LeMans with 455 CID engine agrees. LOL

[@Dave5843-d9m]

I drive a 2010 Fiat Panda diesel. It’s quick very frugal and dirt cheap to run. It has at least another 10 years in it and probably a lot more. IF I can keep getting spare parts. Stuff wears out. Brakes, suspension, etc

[@ducktoonducktoon4492]

It's the mandates! Get the government out of peoples choices and let the market decide which car people drive.

[@shiftymcgee9359]

I don’t want an EV, but the free market argument is weak. Gas is subsidized. If we paid the full price like Europe does, we’d walk or drive those little Fiat clown cars. We just choose gas.

[@Yihooni]

What mandate? There’s no mandate😂😂😂😂 Take your tin foil hat off

[@ducktoonducktoon4492]

New California executive order requires that "by 2035, all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California be zero-emission vehicles."

[@gmv0553]

Manufacturers are changing to full electric without being mandated!

[@Lynyrd_Evnyrd]

Exactly, get rid of the subsidies on petroleum then let the people choose 😉

[@frankcoffey]

EV prices didn’t drop to ICE levels, gas vehicle prices rose up to meet EVs.

[@triaxe-mmb]

It's both...average transaction prices have been climbing for over a decade. The average EV is still cheaper now than say 4-5 years ago...they do need a lot more affordable options at the lower half of the market...

[@frankcoffey]

@@triaxe-mmb Just heard today the Chevy Bolt is coming back from the dead so that's good.

[@triaxe-mmb]

@@frankcoffey yeah, I was ecstatic when I saw that in my news feed today! It's probably gonna be my next ride

[@frankcoffey]

@@triaxe-mmb I have a family member who has a long commute and was paying $800 a month for gas in his Mustang. He got a Bolt and that savings offsets the payments. Like a free car!

[@melrose9252]

@@frankcoffey< He could have gotten a Prius and saved more so out your goes your week rationale.

[@gavinwomersley2054]

If either of you do some basic research from academic sources you will realise two things. 1. Even from a fossil fuel heavy grid EVs are cleaner because they use so little energy. A charged 60kwh battery can get a Tesla close to 300 miles or 500km. That's the same energy thats in 6 litres of fuel which will get your gas car almost nowhere. 2. The whole oil/gasoline supply chain requires huge amounts of energy to drill, pump, ship, refine, truck and pump before being burnt by you. When you burn it 80% of that energy is then wasted by the horrendously inefficient combustion engine. Happy New Year.

[@jcollins1305]

I’m a conservative, but I don’t hate electric vehicles. I like the idea of less parts to go bad (considering how many corners automakers cut nowadays) and sending less money to countries that hate us. it’s just that I don’t think they are ready for prime time. Hybrid is the way to go.

[@witwicky735]

Me also. Grew up visiting the grandparents in AZ. In their retirement villa everyone drove golf carts everywhere. Easy, cheap, kinda fun. Still seems logical to pop down to the store using battery.

[@insiainutorrt259]

Well they sure ruined the less parts to break the first thing theyve done and just keep making it worse.... soon they will have devices to chew food for you and breathe for you in the ev's...

[@triaxe-mmb]

I think people are saying EVs have to replace all use cases...the average American family has multiple vehicles. We could go one EV and one Hybrid/ICE till the infrastructure for EVs catches up... We forget that we are living in the pre1910s of EVs...back then you bought gas by the pint from road side shacks, blacksmiths, and pharmacies...the first gas car came out in 1886 and it took almost 20 years for the first gas station to show up and then another 20-30 years from it to be a common thing... We will get there with EVs Basically we didn't have any infrastructure when we started using cars...we built it as we went along...atleast now we only need to worry about charging infrastructure...the rest already exists...

[@jeffg4570]

It seems like “I like the idea of less parts” and “hybrid is the way to go” are kind of conflicting thoughts. In a sense hybrids are the worst of both worlds. When you’re running the gas engine you’re lugging around a heavy battery. When you’re running in electric mode you’re lugging around a heavy gasoline engine & gas tank. And you’ve got the complexity/maintenance of both systems. I can see where hybrids make sense for instance if you have to tow something. Another instance is if an EV is just too expensive, but I think the prices will come down just like flat screen TVs.

[@jcollins1305]

You make excellent points. I would posit that Toyota, who are leading the hybrid charge, are very reliable, so if you choose a hybrid, you really will enjoy the best of both worlds. But time will tell I imagine.

[@ldmtag]

I 100% agree with Nathan on idling charges. I hate people being careless. Nobody ows them a free parking spot, owners want to continue doing business, other EV drivers want to charge. Just like any parking place, EV charger should absolutely cost you money. You bought that 100 square foot piece of metal - now pay for leaving it in other people's way.

[@BigAl22]

Totally with Nathan about idling charges. I really think you've got it backwards Roman, this HELPS the regular person use electric cars so you don't have to wait for inconsiderate people. Some sort of a charge at least puts it in people's minds that they have to move their vehicle when it's finished.

[@Cornelius87]

Yes but nobody is listening to Roman's point. He's was just saying, as an ice driver, why would you buy an ev and now be in a world where such idle fees are even needed or exist? Whether you're the one waiting for a car to move or you're the one getting hit by the idle fee it's just an added problem that didn't exist before you bought an EV.

[@jstnumber73]

I don't hate our Model Y but finding out its worth 44k when we bought it a year ago for 70 has me feeling a bit sour.

[@mowcowbell]

44K is more of a true value, you simply paid too much for it new.

[@anydaynow01]

@@mowcowbell Actually Tesla is still making a killing with it being 44k, way higher margins than any other automaker, this scalping from the factory is one of the reasons I'll never buy one, that and no right to repair. So they get to overcharge me on repairs and parts also, no thanks.

[@flakes369]

Every car loses value?

[@Weak_juan]

You over paid

[@czwhat328]

@@flakes369Yes, but it’s annoying when the manufacturer drops the price of new ones like over 10k.

[@careykuhn9174]

Dont care what is more efficiant.. Our hybrid fusion gets 43 avg without even trying. Main point! It has a 700 mile range and we are not stuck on using a forced route to charge it and its quick and easy to fill up AND its cost effective! Best of all worlds! EV's need years before they can become what a hybrid is!

[@SunnynPhilly]

Yea, definitely agree with that. I have a 2017 Lexus ES300H hybrid that has been great, perfect for commuting in traffic. Before that I had an 07 Camry Hybrid, got it to 230k with just basic maintenance before I traded it in.

[@volvo09]

I would absolutely buy a plug in hybrid that had some actual battery capacity (not 20 miles or whatever crap they do today). I like the idea of hybrids.

[@careykuhn9174]

@@volvo09 Im happy with the non plug in version. These things get 40-50 mpg and thats plenty good with me and I dont deal with any bs cables. It runs in ev in reverse and anytime you are part throttle. I like the fact that it has no transmission. Just a couple of gears with a planetary. Ours has been very trouble free. Its a 2019 with 60 some k on it.

[@RRLV434]

I feel before all the ev nonsense, car makers should just make their cars hybrids and plug in hybrid vehicles. It works so well compared to both gasoline and all electric cars!

[@garywozniak7742]

I'm not arguing against hybrids. I may end up getting one but if you look at a vehicle like the Tesla Model 3 (Disclosure, I'm not a Tesla fan) they use about 0.240 kWh/mile of electricity. Using the EPA's method, one gallon of gasoline contains 33.7kWh of energy. So the Model 3 gets 33.7kWh ÷0.240kWh/mile = 140 mpg-e. If you drive really high mileage on a regular basis it might not be the vehicle for you. But, particularly for those who can charge at home they save $$ and energy.

[@tlewisAK]

For me, and I KNOW you have experienced this as part of your Northern Lightning series, is the lack of infrastructure. I live in Fairbanks Alaska. I’m with you where 500 mile range minimum is key. I don’t want to be somewhere between Fairbanks and Anchorage and run out of juice. The 2 chargers between Fairbanks and Anchorage (Healy & milepost whatever mosquito farm), both shut down at the end of September. I have an Eco Diesel Grand Cherokee, I drive about 30-50 miles a day. I fill up every 4-6 weeks. I can make the 360+ mile drive between Fairbanks & Anchorage on just under 1/2 a tank. The drive takes about 6 - 7 hours. With an EV you’d have to add at least 2-3 hours to that for charging along the way. Now I know Alaska is a special case where we don’t have the population to support the infrastructure, the distances between “cities” is extreme, and let’s face it, you have to be a little crazy to live here. To make 100% EV’s viable we need to either A. Bring the standard up to ICE vehicles quickly, or B. Go old school slot car and electrify the highways where you’re getting a charge as you drive. Sadly neither of these scenarios are within 5-10 years of becoming a realty. Until something major changes, my next vehicle will be a hybrid of some sort (most likely a Jeep 4xe). Just my $0.2 from an old Sourdough.

[@JasonEDragon]

In your extreme case, yes, EVs aren't there yet - and might always be less practical. But, I think that we've already reached a point where EVs are already more practical for people who live in more normal rural areas. It is great to live in the boonies, have electricity at your house, and leave every morning with full range. No longer do a lot of people have to go 10-20 minutes out of there way to stop to the gas station before they then go in the opposite direction to get to their real destination. There are many of us who live in rural areas who almost never ever drive more than an hour or 2 each day. Many more days I no longer leave the house compared to decades ago. With both the Internet and home delivery so much more of the world comes right to you. I remember the days of driving 100 miles round trip and spending half a day to go to a few different stores, while now I spend 2 minutes on Amazon and what I want comes right to my door.

[@richardbambenek2601]

Lack of infrastructure and charging time especially with a level one charger.

[@pressendforspanish]

The biggest reason people, myself included, hate EVs is because they are being forced on us.

[@nicolagianaroli2024]

And that is a capital sin in the land of liberty

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Fastest way to get Americans to adopt EVs is to ban them.

[@Leggir]

I'm not sure if you are actually getting forced to buy them yet, maybe in 7-10 years.

[@tomasher1911]

I would agree with you. However it is your perception. For instance they are not being forced on me? I simply see another option I have. No one is making buy an EV, I chose to buy an EV. I also have a gas powered vehicle. That my friend is freedom of choice.

[@EthanFalkner2006]

That's why we need people with a backbone to stop this bullshit and at least give us options on the fuel type we desire to own and have a station for it I like gas and diesel so don't get rid of gas stations

[@Black-Villain]

I'm with Nathan, idle fees are necessary to a good charging experience nationwide. Allow a 10 minute grace period which should give you plenty of time to get to your car to unplug and move, then charge like $1/minute past that. Sitting there for 20 minutes after you're finished charging? You get billed an extra $10. Just enough to push people to move, but not so much that if you're 5 minutes late to your car you're financially ruined. As for EVs.... I like them honestly. If you have a home where you can charge, they make a ton of sense as a daily driver; This is coming from someone with a bunch of gas guzzling classic cars who lives in the middle of nowhere. It would be a godsend to be able to charge at home, do 99.9% of my driving which is like 3 20-mile round trips to town a day for essentially free (I do 3-4 long trips a year where I'd need to charge if doing a round trip on a 300-325 mile EV), no maintenance other than tires, and just never worry about it. 1- A lot of people don't have a place to charge at home for one, I think city governments need to work on building out level 2 street chargers. 2- They don't work for every situation, which is fine, but a lot of people don't have the luxury of being able to own 2 cars and need 1 car to do everything (which is why trucks are so popular) 3- Infrastructure. As of today, I can't say I'd be willing to drive across the country in any EV other than a Tesla. 4- Outside of maybe Tesla, they're too expensive. The cheap ones have severe usage drawbacks (charging speed on Bolt, Air-Cooled Battery on a Leaf). I like the Merc EQ cars, but they're like $20k more than their equivalent ICE counterparts which is BS because I know Merc is making a healthy profit margin on both of them. 4a- There needs to be more entry level options in the ~25k range. The Bolt is a good car, and it could be great if they'd make a few updates, sad that they're killing it, but if it's reborn on Ultium, maybe they'll fix some of these issues 5- This is a big one that I think is overlooked, but it's just knowledge. I live in a conservative rural area, where in passing conversation if you talk to someone about EV's, their mind is stuck on the Leaf from 10 years ago. "I don't want to wait over an hour for it to charge" to "The batteries die after 5 years" to "Where on earth would I charge the dang thing (not realizing you can charge at home)". When I or someone else in an EV stops in town to get groceries or something, I always have a couple of people come up and ask questions though, which is good! Proper teaching and correcting some of their old thinking is a big step forward. One of those people who was questioning me actually ended up buying an Ioniq5 after learning they could charge at home, and they don't go on long trips ever, so the public DCFC network is no concern for them.

[@paulgolde6490]

Don’t call it an “Idle Fee”. Call it a Narcissism Fee. C’mon people, get some uncommon sense and uncommon courtesy!

[@Jay-me7gw]

People do the same thing at diesel pumps too. They roll up, park their gas car at the one diesel pump at the station, then walk inside to take a dump or whatever. We probably should work on the cause of such stupidity as opposed to trying to fix it case by case. Because that wont work. That same person, who leaves their car at the charger, will probably then pull into the parking spot next to you at the grocery store completely crooked and uncentered so that you have to get into your car through the passenger door. This literally happened to my wife yesterday for no reason other than laziness, stupidity and general lack of awareness.

[@allaboutroofing2]

​@@Jay-me7gwBuc-ee's is like that every day. People pull into a pump then go walk thru a 20000 sq foot "convenience store", eat a meal, shop, use their private bathroom etc and come out 45 minutes later to fuel up and leave. It's so annoying. I waited for 30 minutes on a holiday while my car ran on fumes before I finally got a spot. It was all the same cars at those pumps.

[@wolfiethebumpireslyr]

"No maintenance other than tires" . Yeah not true.

[@allaboutroofing2]

@@wolfiethebumpireslyr exactly... If there are moving parts, there is maintenance. Yes, there are fewer moving parts in EVs, so the annual cost of maintaining an electric vehicle comes in at around $900 a year. That's only $300 less than the $1,200 a year it costs to keep gas or diesel engines running smoothly. (Oct 21, 2023 yahoo finance)

[@Mach1daddy]

In this day of super inflation, people are looking for affordable pricing. Ev’s are the opposite.

[@colten53]

That’s definitely a big reason. The cheapest EV I can afford (and keep in mind I make about the average American salary worker does) has such limited range that it wouldn’t be worth the investment to me and especially as someone who travels a lot. So the alternative is that I then spend 33% more or higher on an EV that does meet those needs, but that’s a terrible investment when my Crosstrek already gets 30 mpg and fulfills my needs for half the cost or I could get a hybrid Toyota or Hyundai for slightly more

[@felixbaum48]

When you can get an AWD P85D that hits 60mph in 3.1s for $20,000 used, including lifetime supercharging, the game changes. That time is now!!

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Total cost of ownership of a Tesla Model Y is about the same as a Camry. Folks complaining that my Tesla is expensive are riding in a $100k dually.

[@andrewdiamond2697]

The price of gas seems to be going one direction, and that direction isn't down.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

@@andrewdiamond2697 Yeap. While the price may go up and down, over all the trend is up. Oil companies don't make as much money when gas is cheap, and they got burned last time when they opened up more production only for the bottom to fall out afterwards.

[@paladin11C40]

California- "Buy an electric vehicle to help save the environment" Also California- "Please dont charge your electric vehicle this week, the grid cant handle it"

[@clu4u]

Tesla superchargers use 100% renewable energy now, iirc.

[@paladin11C40]

@@clu4u Except for where the dont. I saw Tesla chargers at a gas station in rural Colorado, no solar or wind power in sight. Not sure how they were getting 100% renewable energy. Not sure what IIRC means.

[@JollyGiant19]

@@paladin11C40They’re all on renewable energy, have been since 2022. Even that one you saw in Colorado

[@donrichter3523]

Bullshit……unless connected to a solar panel, they have no way of determining what source their electricity comes from.🤦‍♂️

[@paladin11C40]

@@JollyGiant19 From where, out of the air? From what I saw, its hooked to the grid, which is coal fired in that part of Colorado. I am a bit of a sceptic to buy into that claim.

[@thomosburn8740]

I've been in an EV for more than 3 years (Kia Niro). Zero regrets on the purchase. I got it for 20% below list after it had been on the lot for 10 months so I clearly did not overpay. The one flaw I can find in the car is that the stereo is not great. I get 4.8 - 5.2 mi / kW efficiency on surface streets and 3.8 - 4.4 mi /kW on the interstate. I drive only in Eco Mode because you can still burn the tires just leaving the intersection! Hyundai, Genesis & Kia's paddle-shifter controls for the regenerative braking should be on EVERY car, it helps greatly with the energy efficiency and extends the range to as much as 350 miles on a charge. I've driven from the TN/KY border down to Key West in this vehicle, I have never experienced "range anxiety" and I have only encountered 2 non-working Electrify America "pumps"in the three years.

[@knarfster]

LOL, Kia. Paste eaters drive KIAs.

[@steve8803]

trash car

[@fritty9927]

Yeah, go west of the Mississippi and see how far apart those stations become. Even with ICE car you can occasionally get a little anxiety between gas stations.

[@thomosburn8740]

@@fritty9927 You're kind of underscoring my point though that there's nothing wrong with the cars that time - and a resulting expanded infrastructure - won't solve.

[@fritty9927]

@@thomosburn8740 true

[@ectofix8447]

I don't care if you ramble or not. I simply enjoy your discussions. In this case, you did good staying on topic because it was a particularly interesting one. Thanks.

[@simjet22]

Nathan and Roman, I'm gonna be honest!! You just think you can just go around and plug everything in and it will just magically work without issue. There is WAY more engineering and money incorporated with that. The more you tap into the grid, the more load you add, it has to be balanced. for example, if you increase the load, you have to increase the wire size to handle the increased load efficiently and safely. Now apply that same scenario in a wider and broader scope. Gonna be Frank here. I don't mind the technology improvements throughout life, technology MUST and ALWAYS move forward. I'm not a huge fan with EV's, but I also do believe they have their place in history and their place within the automotive markets. They work for some, and not for all. As we stand TODAY, the electric grid CANNOT and WILL NOT even support a 50% marketshare of EV's without the electric grid failing. I work for a Electric Utility in the Northeast Region, so I'm coming from a place of knowledge and experience of our nations electric grid. Until, there is a MAJOR overhaul of the gird nationwide, which means upgrading ALL the existing wires that you see running around the country and all the sub-surface lines you don't see....the EV utopia already has failed. The government will tell you one thing but the fact is that it WILL not work. Another thing that nobody is telling you is that say you have an EV you at least have to have a 30-50A circuit installed in your home. can your home panel support 1 extra 30-50A electric circuit? So now they push this EV stuff even further and you now have more than 1 EV in your driveway, so now at this point your home electric panel is over capacity and you will have no choice but to upgrade your electric service to accommodate the upgraded load. That's another expense you did not think about. I can go on and on, but there are more cons that are pros with EV's.

[@Islandlazy99]

I’ll purchase an EV when that’s all that’s available. They’re just appliances in my opinion.

[@clu4u]

We’ve turned to planet into ‘Hell on Earth’. HOT ENOUGH FOR YOU??

[@billybobbob3003]

@@clu4u ok nut

[@fortheloveofnoise]

​@@clu4uI mean Earth is Hell...so only fitting that we heat it up.

[@terryeffinp]

Can't wait to drop a 6.2 GM crate engine in my POS 2035 GMC Sierra.

[@MegaDePorter]

Sorry. When only EVs are available I will walk, bike, or take mass-transportation.

[@Nitromudder]

100% correct on the fire stats. But out of curiosity what if you only look at new ICE vehicles, like 5 years or newer? Not like this is happening with old EV's, because they don't really exist for the most part, yet. And the fear of fire difference is where and when it happens. I'd rather have it catch fire on the side of the road, then in my house while my family is sleeping. I feel that is why it's in peoples minds so much.

[@paulsharp8802]

Everyone forgets that co2 and carbon are not greenhouse gas. It's plant food. The number 1 contributor of co2 and carbon is the ocean. Number 2 is volcanos. 1of the 11 big volcanos on land puts out more co2 and carbon in 1 day than all of humanity puts out in a year. And the co2 and carbon in the atmosphere is at 0.04% so y are they picking on cars.

[@khakiswag]

Volcanoes are the earth’s natural pressure vents and created by the man himself so it can’t possibly be harmful. The balance is the vegetation like you said to filter the air. But man is cutting trees down to build mini mansion subdivisions, strip malls and parking lots. So the filters are being destroyed in addition to our machines that emit pollution.

[@donrichter3523]

Yup, so the actual impact of auto emissions are minimal. Smog, ok I can buy that….but it’s mostly eliminated now.

[@khakiswag]

@@donrichter3523 smog is eliminated because of strict emissions regulations it didn’t just happen. From cars to industries even to aircraft. I guess you agree that emissions regulations work.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Yes and no. Carbon dioxide is most certainly a greenhouse gas (see Venus), along with many others (including water vapor). This is actually needed for our planet to be habitable since we don't get enough heat from the sun and it helps spread the heat more evenly around the world. The problem is balance. Plants breath in CO2 and out O2, thus they are a carbon sink. CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have doubled in the past 70 years, so the plants (and other carbon sinks) aren't keeping up. It's like a bathtub with an open drain - if you fill the tub faster than the drain can remove water, the tub will eventually fill up.

[@kawailauaelani]

I think it’s the pricing. We don’t hate them, there just not as affordable as originally promoted

[@Andygp13]

When Toyota perfects their Solid State batteries, that will change the way we view electric vehicles. Toyota says their SSB will go up to 746 miles to a charge and charge in only 10 minutes. Once we get our hands on that technology, I think more people will be more apt to lean towards electric. Toyota says they are going to release them by 2027.

[@truthserum5310]

Totally agree, and I'm surprised they didn't mention SSB's in this Podcast. I've been saying this about SSB's for the last 3 years now.

[@truthserum5310]

@@rk-xv4km You're. Good God.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

​@@truthserum5310who cares

[@truthserum5310]

@@fortheloveofnoise Exactly why you'll be nobody in life.

[@edvoon]

You do realise Toyota had been rolling out that same promise since 2010? Virtually word-for-word. I won’t count on it until they have an actual PRODUCTION car with that technology.

[@jay4him1]

I enjoyed the segment. I appreciate the fact that you left politics out of this. The one thing that I think is missing in the argument is that we need more level two chargers at apartment buildings, restaurants, retail locations, and other public areas. We don’t always need rapid charging. It would be a whole lot less expensive to implement and give us some flexibility that we don’t have with ice cars.

[@555atU]

I don't hate EV's, I just want the market to tell me I want one, not the government to force me into one. The climate benefits of EV's is a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things.

[@thorpower1015]

Well said 👏

[@tactical_potato81]

Nathan I am one hundred percent with you on there being some kind of idling charge. As a truck driver nothing infuriates me more than waiting at the fuel Island for some driver to take his 30-minute break and eat a hot dog while the line behind him back stuff. I'm on a time crunch and tell him his money. The same should be applied to everybody else. If you're done filling up then you should pull forward to some kind of parking space and get out of everybody else's way. You never know what kind of time crunch they're on.

[@ralfulrich6254]

I loved EVs and bought one when they were new. I sold it when it became a social and political movement. I hate the social divide that it brings and the attitude many people have about it. The whole climate change movement is a gateway excuse to communism. It should have never become a political issue with substitutes and special rights for EVs and retribution for ICE cars. I had noting in common with the people I met at a charging station who so often felt moral superiority. This could have been a simple natural transition if they just kept the decision to the consumer. Now it divides people and has become highly unjust on basis of income.

[@MrOktsx]

I was all on board for buying a Tesla unit I started doing research on cold weather performance and cost of insurance. If I can't reliably drive 100 miles from home (no matter the weather) and back home again, without having to charge, I don't want it.

[@peterrempala7982]

Where did you get that misinformation from? Not true. Lol

[@MrSovrin]

@@peterrempala7982 There are lots of Tesla's on the road that wont make a 200 mile round trip in the dead of winter without charging. Like my model S. Lol

[@jstar1000]

My car has 315 miles of range even in the coldest weather it will get at least 200 miles. That's double 100.

[@MrOktsx]

@@jstar1000 No! You can't reliably drive 200 round-trip no matter the weather. 100 miles from home and back home again is 200 miles! Getting home at 0% is not reliable.

[@jstar1000]

@MrOktsx your wrong, I've owned mine 4 years, no problem getting 200 miles plus. Your making shit up.

[@jasonpitts8395]

1. Not green 2. Price 3. Range / usefulness 4. Price 5. TFL is awesome.

[@billynonofyourbusiness3434]

With the current range of electric vehicles and the charge time, they are not practical for long distances. Electric vehicles would be good for doing errands around town and for a daily commute. However, the price is too high for a commute vehicle. If an electric vehicle was 20k I would buy one, and keep my gas powered truck for hauling things and road trips. I would never just have an electric vehicle. (Edit: I am a 50 y.o. guy who makes 65k a year. No way would I ever spend over 20k for any vehicle. I've always bought used cars.)

[@M8Stealth]

Because we can do math.

[@gmv0553]

You only think you can!

[@M8Stealth]

@@gmv0553 That's the best retort you've got? "Here's your sign"

[@propertypreparedness6846]

Bahahaha... love this comment..well done!

[@MrChadx1]

"Hating" any product is a silly waste of time. If you like something; buy it. If you don't like it or it doesn't meet your needs, don't by it and buy something that does; Just like every single other consumer product on a store shelf or internet website. I will say this is totally separate from not liking a politicians policy, how an owner (person) acts, etc. but those are all humans being humans, so hate on the human; not the object. Hating an inanimate object or consumer product is ridiculous. I hate ice cube trays! I hate brown shoes! Ha.

[@thorpower1015]

Well if it was only to that simple, the govt and the ecofacists are pushing this by force.

[@SuperEman500]

Not quite, hate is good, especially directed to the government if they think they’re going to hike gas up to Europe prices to shoehorn you into a EV. Gas would be cheaper in Europe if it wasn’t artificially inflated.

[@MrChadx1]

@@SuperEman500 Please re-read my post. I made the distinction between a government policy and the object/product. What you describe is not liking a government policy. That doesn't have anything to do with the product itself.

[@richfarfugnuven6308]

Range. Once Toyota comes out with the 800 mile range solid state battery car in 3-4 years, I think people will be more open to electric cars. I dont want to stop every 300 miles to charge. My diesel truck goes about 1000 miles between fillups...

[@RodVonLongrod]

Even a 600 mile range would eliminate range anxiety. If Toyota could pull off an 800 mile range then other automakers would have to up their game fast to compete. And an 800 mile range would slightly alleviate the recharging bottleneck once a lot more people buy EVs. One area automakers *MUST* figure out is the towing & hauling for electric trucks. The bulk of sales for the Big Three are their trucks. Truck guys need to tow and they need to haul. If the battery range is not there you can forget about real truck guys ever adopting electric trucks.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Sorry, but my bladder doesn't have a 200 mile range. I'm going to stop anyway, might as well charge while taking a piss, perhaps grab some snacks for the next 200 miles. Also a good way to avoid a blood clot.

[@fritty9927]

The Japanese will study these in depth and will dominate the electric field just like they have with hybrids and fuel efficient ICE cars. Then Tesla will be regulated to the trash heap of auto history.

[@robclark5810]

One of the reasons why people are avoiding EVs is that the big push for EVs if motivated by reducing Carbon Dioxide emissions to prevent Climate Change. CO2 is 0.04% of our atmosphere, man's contribution to that is about 5% (95% is natural). That is insignificant in any terms of "greenhouse" effect because Water Vapor is the primary greenhouse gas. What drives our climate is solar cycles. Everything else is insignificant and it is ridiculous that we are being forced in such such a short timeframe to move from ICE to electric vehicles. This is political, plain and simple. It's about restricting our freedom of movement in the longer term. I have never seen this even discussed in the Automotive Media, and it disappoints me that Journalists don't ask more questions of politicians on this front. I'm not against EVs, but I think that a home charged vehicle for daily commuting up to, say, 150 miles/day, is the only use case that makes good sense at this point. This is OK for families that can afford a second vehicle for longer trips and live in a home that can easily be adapted for a home charger. The major benefit would be greatly reduced maintenance costs over an ICE vehicle, and the convenience and (currently) lower costs of home charging. Also, on the infrastructure front, the additional Electricity Generating and Network Capacity required if we all switch to EVs is unsustainable in the short term, and cannot be achieved without significant long term investment. We saw in the video Tommy did recently on the mobile EV charger, the charge rate is halved if 2 vehicles are using the same charger with a fixed overall KV. Imagine if all the gas pumps were occupied and you could only get say, 1 gallon per minute versus 5 or 6 gals/min if only one pump were occupied. If everyone is charging overnight at 7KW, will the grid have capacity to sustain this? I'm sticking with my gas truck for the foreseeable future.

[@randomkoreanguy]

I'm listening to you guys from my EV work truck (I'm a courier for a major global logistics company) and I just wanted to say, that this thing is the best truck I've ever driven during my 25 year career in this place. It is the most quiet, civilized, car-like experience compared to the harsh, loud, dirty tin boxes they usually have is use. That being said, I don't want an EV for my personal vehicle because I rent and don't have a place to charge it and it's too expensive, but for work, it's fantastic. The battery in this thing is massive and it has to charge overnight at our facility, but I wouldn't ever go back to any of the old delivery trucks.

[@woof059]

Go look up a company called Grizz-e. They’ve developed a charging station platform for rental properties where renters with EVs can charge for less than the price of gas and the landlord can make extra money. Its the solution to the problem of getting EVs charged practically anywhere. The charging speed is Level 2, meant for cars sitting in a parking lot while people sleep or work, providing a nice slow charge that is easy on batteries and cheap for consumers. Perfect for apartments and businesses. Check it out. They also sell EV chargers directly to consumers that are pretty well regarded.

[@rvanbeau2009]

Good point on charging stations without a cover. I live in san diego but on the occasional rainy day no cover is rediculous.

[@lotusjp]

Buy a Tesla then you don't have to worry about secondary charging options which all the people that don't buy Tesla are faced with and therefore dummies!

[@christopherm1904]

I think the major Japanese automakers have the right recipe for electrification....hybridization. My wife and I just bought a new Honda Accord Hybrid and it's returning 55-57 mpg. I'm not sure why there is such a push for 100% EV adoption when hybrids have show to be the best route for long term buy in by the masses. 650 miles on a 12 gallon tank of gas is a convincing argument from the offerings from both Toyota and Honda without the current downfalls of the EV charging infrastruture. I say this as both a Hybrid owner and an EV owner.

[@donrichter3523]

It’s political…

[@electricalinput5999]

I absolutely agree, I own a Toyota Camry Hybrid that also gets 650 miles on a tank of gas, and it fills up from 0 to 100 in less than 1 minute 30 seconds, assuming 10 gallons per minute. I doubt EVs will be able to match for a long time.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

I'd prefer plugin hybrids with a 50+ mile battery range - but to replace my minivan in the future. Nearly all local trips are on my Tesla Model Y since I charge at home.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

@@electricalinput5999 Do they need to? My bladder doesn't have a 200 mile range. As long as I can get another 200 miles in the time it takes me to use the restroom and perhaps grab some snacks - does it matter? Normally on roadtrips, I have my family with me too, so even more bio-break possibilities. Normally the car is ready before the people are, so I end up charging more than required to continue. On a 5700 mile trip, I only counted a few times when we had to charge without needing something else or we needed to charge longer than our other needs at the stop.

[@fritty9927]

Rest assured the end of Tesla will come from the Japanese offering an EV that makes a Tesla look horrible by comparison. They did it with hybrids and they will do it with EV’s. Tesla will join the garbage heap of failed car companies.

[@supraman_1987]

Great discussion guys! I'm a tech geek, was waiting on EVs since the 80s, and purchased a 1st Gen. US Prius in ealry 2000's. I don't hate EVs, but am not yet ready to purchase another. Showstoppers for me include: 1) Mandates; if you can't do this via incentives to me that acknowledges they see a problem getting folks to buy in, 2) Price (why would I want to pay so much more for essentially the same features), and 3) Range vs infrastructure (which is not ready for prime time, specially in New Mexico). You touched on it a bit, but the offset to zero/low carbon emissions (in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure how much we are saving vs current EPAs emission mandates) is the environmental damage caused by mining and waste stream from a huge quantity of spent/used EV batteries. I'd be okay with at least a 300 mile range @80 (fast charge). Idle charges is a non-starter. Your comment about spending time in the shop conflicts with Consumer Report ratings which is documenting reliability to be poor (pretty much across the board). Getting past burn-in failures will take time to work out design flaws. Much work to be done...

[@spliffbooth]

Consumer Reports does not differentiate "being in the shop" due to poor paint, window regulator, the hood release, the body, brake or adaptive cruise controllers vs something unique to EVs...I.e. the battery, the motor, the HVLV converters, etc. These cars aren't necessarily in the shop for powertrain issues, and since CR doesn not differentiate that, their statistic (in comparison to ICEVs) is meaningless. Until that changes, the Consumer Reports statistic will be skewed by an automaker who represents more 50% of the entire EV market, selling those cars with poor fit-and-finish quality control.

[@supraman_1987]

@@spliffbooth watch their KZbin video "Why is EV Reliability so Bad". Yes some of what you mention is included but they discuss the more significant problems they are seeing with EV/HEV/PHEV.s. A lot has to do with the new manufacturers and new tech as well as long time car makers trying to integrate these new product lines. Toyota, for example seems to be doing well (RAV4 Prime) due to their experience with the Prius. CR makes a good point about HEV reliability getting better as Toyota and others gets more data. Tesla aside, others aren't there yet, but will someday. Reliability will likely improve over time once more data is available and experience gained.

[@mindylinton9249]

Limited Range and long recharge time!!

[@knightwing4]

Sorry Roman but I agree with Nathan on block the pumps. Get you gas, park you car and then go inside. Why should a line of people have to wait for you to go shopping.

[@finnianfitzsimons623]

Could I make a suggestion of getting rid of the flashing sign

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

I agree with Nathan, idle fees are a good thing. Three days in a row I saw the same lady park her Nissan Leaf in the diesel lane to go inside an get breakfast at the conjoined Dunkin. On the third day I just laid on my horn until she moved. I'm sure she's done this every day for a long time by the look on her face. Was tempted to just push her out of the way. The worst part of it is there are parking spots right next to the door and she had a handicap placard in the window - she walked just fine, perhaps it was for a relative. The other big problem is accuracy of the public charging directories. I was looking at buying a Bolt now that they're getting heavily discounted. But when looking on Chevy's website of where public charging is, I noticed a lot are at businesses that aren't actually open to the public, they're for employees and clients only; I don't mean stores, there's a machine shop near me with 1 that is falsely listed as for public use on Chevy's website. I live in Cinci, have family in Cleveland and family in Asheville, if I could make each trip with only stopping once in each direction, I'd be happy, but it's damn near impossible to tell without actually visiting these charging stations. And when I do pay attention, there's often 5-10 Tesla chargers and just 1-2 Other, such as on the Ohio Turnpike. This switch to the Tesla standard can't happen soon enough IMO.

[@darmou]

Update: - GM has decided to not drop production of the Bolt after all. It is however, going to a new platform so there may be a break in production.

[@trevorhart5576]

Whenever I hear new I expect it to cost more. Chevy please prove me wrong.

[@RRLV434]

@@trevorhart5576it will most definitely cost more. They weren’t making a ton of money on the previous bolts, and this new one having a battery system, more range, and faster charging will cost more

[@fritty9927]

What happened to the electric Hummer???😂😂. They sold a couple dozen last year. Not sustainable.

[@darmou]

@@fritty9927 It's a halo car not a mass market vehicle

[@fritty9927]

@@darmou how many ford lightings they selling?

[@billcahill3196]

our 2015 mazda 3 runs 40 mpg highway, 3000 mile trip was about 75 gallons of gas,

[@pressendforspanish]

How carbon free is that container shop thats been burning out of control for nearly a week and a half because of 500 EVs that spontaneously combusted?

[@felixbaum48]

When you can get an AWD P85D that hits 60mph in 3.1s for $20,000 used, including lifetime supercharging, the game changes. That time is now!! Safest, fastest car in the world, extremely reliable with only three moving parts, and INSANELY GREAT to drive. It looks like a Maserati Quattroporte but performs BETTER and doesn't break. If you haven't tried one - that would explain your fear and hate.

[@deranged731]

I am currently looking at a new car. Has to be AWD, gets good fuel mileage and is fast and under 50k. Well there isn't much out there, so I did the math on fuel and charging a tesla at home and I was shocked at the fuel savings. I will still keep the ole F150 for truck stuff, but the Model 3 seems to fit the bill.

[@melvinholland9656]

I own two EVs. If you have solar you can charge the vehicles for free. So free operating costs (excluding road trips) and very little maintenance beyond tires and windshield wiper fluid.

[@aricegana2382]

I own that set up f150 and Tesla model 3. The car is great in the city the truck works well for looking range driving. I hate this notion that you can't have both. Truck is nice because of the room and abundance of gas stations with short fuel stops. Ev is good because of savings on fuel. I Have made a few trips from Denver to Albuquerque in the 3 and it does fine but I think it could have been faster fill ups in the truck but much more expensive.

[@ronaldoquintos1675]

American has always love loud vintage cars specially in Texas

[@davidshettlesworth1442]

Hmmm lets see, recent examples, the spontaneous combustion of the Ford EV trucks on the dealer lots. The recent fire and sinking of the North Sea "auto carrying cargo ship" that was carrying a large number of EVs. Sea water and EVs don't mix well. So after I plunk down $70 or $80 Thousand dollars to buy this new EV vehicle I have to worry about that issue. That is Just for starters. The fact that the current EVs do not handle extreme heat or extreme cold very well and my distance on a charge will be cut short. However, If I am lucky and nothing bad happens to my new EV and I make it out of warranty, the battery replacement cost will be more than the value of the vehicle. that would be the definition of "vehicle totaled!" . I'm sticking with Toyota proven vehicles and old vehicles that I can work on until this craziness is worked out.

[@ivantuma7969]

35:42 ... don't forget ... 60% of people can charge at home simply with an L2 for their daily commute. The remaining 40% have to rely on charge stations. Hyliion has a fuel agnostic generator that can run on diesel, hydrogen, cng or even ammonia BTW - great for remote charging stations that don't have a high voltage drop from the utility.

[@kirkwagner461]

I'm totally with Nathan in approving of idling fees in gas and charging stations. It takes very little effort to fill your car then move it to a parking spot vs leaving the car in the filling/charging spot to delay other customers while I dawdle around deciding between Cheetos vs Doritos in the fast food shop. Moving you car is a sign of consideration for other people and its something we need more of. I guarantee the moment, the MOMENT, Roman is inconvenienced by someone else idling in a spot he wants he will go ballistic about it.

[@mx3727]

You know what fixes this "idling" problem? 2 things: large signs at the pumps/chargers that declare "unattended vehicles will be towed at owner's expense". and a tow truck sitting on the lot. Enforce it. Oh sure, EV charging stations can't do that as no one is gonna sit in their EV while it's charging and it's 110 degrees outside, right??? So, the solution? The charger only charges for 30 minutes and requires a person to initiate the next 30 minute charging cycle. Put a large orange beacon on the top of every charger to signify when a car is connected but not charging (good visual indicator) and have an SMS notification go out to the owner 5 minutes prior to the end of the charge cycle, and every 5 minute thereafter. If the beacon stays on for 15 minutes past the end of the charge cycle due to no interaction with a human, it goes red. Initiate tow truck movement to charger when beacon goes red.....problem solved. 👍

[@Nitromudder]

If they would make a cheap commuter car that cost wise competes with a gas car more would switch. 50 to 100k for a vehicle that does not do everything does not work for most of us.

[@TigerFan-pq9tw]

The lack of affordable EV’s with comparable range to an ICE car is a big issue. And both of you are 100% right that there is a concern over range, charging, and frustration with Washington force feeding them to the American public. Over time with more rapid charge stations, things will change. But automakers should not be ignoring affordable ICE vehicles in the meantime.

[@fcv1967]

Affordable? A Model 3, made by the company that leads in EV's, is $32k with tax credit. Long term costs are cheaper than Toyota Camry. If you think an EV needs to go the same range on a single charge as an ICE vehicle, meaning around 600 miles, you are a dope.

[@kaijen2688]

The new Teslas can add 100 miles in 5 minutes wirh the V4 charger.

[@pressendforspanish]

When demand for electricity goes up, so does the price.

[@realbigtuna667]

Fusion is 15-25 years out from commercial implementation. Cheap energy is the key to improving quality of life and wealth for all. Fusion energy will be very, very cheap. This interim period is going to be rough if the goal is to get everyone in EVs. I'm still not sold EVs are any better for the environment than ICE cars.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

@@realbigtuna667 It depends on which EV. Hummer EV might not be very green at all. Break even on a Tesla Model Y is 14,500 miles. It also depend where you live. West Virginia, break even will take a lot longer (5+ years). Solar panels in a sunny state, less than 1 year.

[@pressendforspanish]

@@realbigtuna667 Do you really think the power companies are going to allow "cheap" energy? They will find a way to make it expensive because thats how they make money. Man made climate change is a hoax. It is real but it is natural and cyclical.

[@pressendforspanish]

@@JasonTaylor-po5xc Overall, from collection of raw materials and ending in disposal, EVs are much worse for the environment than ICE vehicles. Plus, it enrich China and make our entire economy and military dependent on them.

[@fubarmedic4222]

Question… if there was a way to pump gasoline at your housese for half the price of gas at a gas station… would you still primarily rely on the gas stations for your fuel or fuel up at home? This would be the same as charging at home vs going to the gas station. Yes sometimes you would have to charge/ fuel up at one but you would really try to do it at home.

[@M8Stealth]

Sounds like you'll enjoy living in a pod in the fifteen minute city eating bugs.

[@WheresHerb]

@@M8Stealth 😆 🤣

[@jkholley1118]

Stopping for gas once or twice a month, spending $40 to $60 a month in gas is well worth the advantages of a gas powered car.

[@theglowcloud2215]

@@M8Stealth MUH FREEDOMS!

[@fubarmedic4222]

@@jkholley1118 I don’t have any issue with that at all. I own a 2019 Nissan Titan with the 5.6L V8! Love that truck. But the issue folks keep bringing up with electric vehicles is “charging is too slow at a station” and my point is do it at night at home. If you have other issues than yeah I agree don’t buy it. But let’s be genuine and honest… having only a political issue with it and not a financial/ functional issue with it makes no sense to me. In the end we have to do what’s best for ourselves in each and every situation. Otherwise we are sacrificing for someone else and there is no guarantee they would reciprocate. Thus it only hurts you in the end.

[@tom_hoots]

I don't hate electric vehicles. I hate "battery electric vehicle fanatics" who scream "EVERYBODY has one! EVERYBODY is getting one! EVERYBODY is going to get one! It's the ELECTRIC REVOLUTION!" I would point out that EVERYBODY absolutely IS NOT jumping on this bandwagon, at this point. This generation of battery electric vehicles is going to be obsolete "any day now." 10 years from now, 20 years from now, whenever -- NOBODY is going to be sitting in line for hours waiting for people in front of them to spend an hour or more filling their battery electric vehicles with 100% charges, BECAUSE RENTERS WILL BE FORCED BY GOVERNMENTS TO PURCHASE BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES THEY CAN NOT CHARGE AT HOME. And when we renters start flooding the charging stations, we will park the damned things for an hour or longer, and "go shopping." And even if you spend yet another $100,000 for another ultra-high-end battery electric vehicle, which claims to "charge up in 5 minutes," you will have to wait for the rest of us poor bastards who will have to spend the rest of our lives sitting at charging stations, just to drive a personally-owned motor vehicle. At this point, a battery electric vehicle will cost somewhere around $20,000 more than what an equivalent combustion vehicle would cost, which can be "filled up with energy" in less than 5 minutes, and which will provide 2 or 3 times as many miles of range, than the battery electric vehicle equivalent. And that boils down to "if you want a battery electric vehicle, you have lost your freaking mind." Oh, it might make a bit more sense if you can charge at home, so then "you're screwed" only part of the time. I expect that a time will come when a zero-emission vehicle won't need to cost more than a combustion vehicle, and it won't need to take longer to "fill up with energy" than a combustion vehicle, and the infrastructure to do that "energy filling" will be in place for millions of people to depend upon it, every day. When that happens, THEN I'll think about purchasing an electric vehicle. And I'll bet that it won't be a "battery" electric vehicle -- there sure seems to be a far more likely chance that some other technology will be far less inconvenient than "charging batteries," and then perhaps humanity will embrace zero-emission vehicles. But the road we're heading down right now is a straight path into a complete NIGHTMARE.

[@brianb3333]

cant say i hate them , but i would prefer the market remain free with choice to the consumer..new does not always mean better

[@matthewgrear3260]

Agreed. And the government trying to make us go there isn’t the way, especially when they stop the oil pipelines and stop drilling and forcing the price of gas to go up so it looks more affordable to drive an electric

[@kahless0173]

It's not free. Oil money heavily influences politics and the policies passed.

[@ironclaw6969]

@@kahless0173 Is that why the government shamelessly steals from everyone to subsidize EV purchases?

[@filipinovegaslife70]

EVs are for people who are not into cars. For people who don’t mind not driving the car they love, unless they actually love driving the EV. It gets more complicated regarding 4x4 overlanding EVs. They’re only good for commuting so you’ll be back home to charge again. Road trip distances are already a feat but EVs adds extra distance due to charging locations, and then you have to stay charging for at least 30-45 mins to get to 80% charge, not even full charge! Would you be comfortable water fording an EV knowing there’s a big battery that can get submerged under water? Water fording deep water happens once in a while. Especially those Australian guys that water fords like submarines. These overland vehicles can get really heavy with extra equipment and these EVs loses lots of range when loaded. Off-roading on trails where you drive low gears uphills you’ll lose lots of range more than how gas handles it, then good luck finding a charging station nearby when you’re out in the boonies. EVs are not for doing truck things.

[@gadgetmantwincities]

My grocery store has 1 EV charger and a Ford lightning with a pull behind camper was charging and taking up 9 parking spots😳

[@dennisknehans3206]

Electric only, we own three of them. They are way more efficient than their gas counterparts.

[@robertzink2001]

I don't hate the EV. What I don't like the distance they can or cannot do. My Tacoma can go on average about 270 miles before I fill. It only takes at most about 10 minutes to fill. As for EV's it takes any where between 1 hour several hours to fill. If you are traveling it takes longer with an electric car. Also how much they cost to buy compared with gas. Being retired I more than likely won't be getting one.

[@Jethr001]

Generally like these guys except on EVs…who are their sponsors? when they finally get to the subject, they have a very anti-EV bias… Over exaggerating, the weaknesses of something like “charge anxiety“. We have several EVS… the most recent tesla has required zero maintenance, zero repairs and I have a 90% battery capacity (over 200 miles range) every day. Now in Colorado a Tesla can be had for under $20,000! I really don’t understand why these points are not mentioned.

[@rudeman1914]

100% electric car in California is not a good idea just last year during hot weather they told us not to charge our electric cars and run our AC unit during the summer we keep getting rolling blackouts.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

If I recall, they said not to charge during the day (peak) - which is different than not at all.

[@Doggieman1111]

I live in an apartment with no garage and I have to find parking on the street. An EV ain't going to happen in my life any time soon.

[@firebry23]

It's because we're being told "we have to buy electric". If it were being sold as a choice it'd be different. Let the market decide

[@Yihooni]

Who says you HAVE to buy electric? 😂

[@shawnl4073]

The people who complain that EVs are being shoved down their throats, where does this sentiment come from? You got PLENTY of ICE vehicles to choose from. Nobody’s forcing you to buy an EV. Most automakers don’t even want to sell you one.

[@doublebackagain4311]

Funny, people are not aware of the states in the US and countries around the world mandating 100% EV production of new vehicles by 3035. And some are moving that timetable up-

[@gmv0553]

Nobody is forcing you to buy an ev! But common sense may convince you someday!

[@highbrass3749]

The price, low range, high insurance costs, repair difficulty, and battery replacement.

[@lotusjp]

Low range because you didn't a Tesla. Insurance there's no maintenance of to speak of mark. Try to replace the engine on my 328 BMW 2015 4 cylinder 2 l great car it's going to cost you more than the replacing the the battery plus the labor.... You obviously don't know what it cost to all the money waste on gas and the gas prices decided by the oil company and the stock market for your convenience so you can get your pocket dipped buy them anytime they feel like it! Anybody who likes that kind of system is crazy and should be referred to a psychiatrist for long-term care. Or you can make it simple just buy a Tesla model 3 highly recommended I bought one after my BMW and I'll never look back.

[@lotusjp]

There's another one in 6 years I own my BMW 328 GT how many times did I see people sitting in their car running the air conditioner g what is the air conditioner run on fossil fuels carbon my Tesla doesn't use gasoline to have the air conditioner on or the heat how's that for a novel concept.... You really have to start thinking before write here or anywhere

[@WheresHerb]

I don't Hate EV's. They have their place but just not for everyone. I bought my truck brand new for 36K in 2021. If I could trade it in for a 40K EV truck with atleast 300 mile range I would. I don't need or want a bunch of gadgets and gizmos.

[@kurtstype7468]

I don’t think most people hate “EVs” - I think they hate bureaucrats and lawmakers in Washington mandating their adoption and taking away the freedom to choose what technology (ICE vs. BEV/Hybrid) is the best fit for their use case. I am anti-big government but I like EVs for use cases that fit them.

[@SingleSpeed427]

Being an "ICE guy" I guess, I would totally have an EV truck right now if there was no negative impact on my $$$, time, convenience and "freedoms". If I lived in a city, never towed and charging Infrastructure was more prevalent, it makes sense. EVs are very nice to drive for "daily driving" duties, and could tow what I need (personally) if the range, speed of charging, charging Infrastructure and public charging costs can be addressed. Shoot.. If I could hold and charge 250 miles of towing range in 15 minutes, count me in.

[@kenwong7404]

Give it 5 more years. The Chevy Silverado looks promising. But it’s expensive.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

I lived in the Orlando metro area and once the charger was installed at my house, I never used public infrastructure in my area. Charging to 90% (recommended) each night gives you about 250 miles of range each day (not towing). Depending what you are towing (weight and shape), you can expect the range to be cut in half. The same is true for ICE vehicles too but with gas stations everywhere, this is less of an issue. If you need to tow big stuff long distances, you need to weight another decade most likely. Current EV trucks are fine for local towing or very occasion uses, otherwise not ready yet for that specific case.

[@SingleSpeed427]

@@JasonTaylor-po5xc Yeah.. My 2019 Ram Rebel (the 2nd worst gas mileage truck I've owned) can tow my 90's Honda on my aluminum trailer with the bed and cab full of tools/wheels/parts/etc over 400 miles@75mph. Race Tracks aren't exactly close to large charging Infrastructures, so 125 miles of range doesnt' cut it... I could barely make it from a charger to the track and back to a charger... let alone using the truck while I'm at the track/camping. I will say.. I think that ICE engines should be kept around forever for "fun" or "hobby" cars. Having driven the Ludicrous Teslas and other Fast EVs... there is no comparison to the soul of a tuned ICE car. EV acceleration gets old really fast. For daily driving though.. and if you don't care about the environmental and political stuff.. EVs are great!

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

@@SingleSpeed427 My friend tows his boat from the northern Atlanta metro to Destin, Florida every so often. It is at least twice the gas cost than without towing, but filling up only takes 5 minutes each time except for when he needs to use the restroom or get snacks. Still takes longer, but not nearly as long as if he had an EV truck doing the same job. It's possible, but takes way longer and most folks towing don't have the patience for it. EV trucks will need a solid 300+ miles of _towing_ range to be even a serious consideration. I've been driving my Tesla for almost 2 years and the acceleration is still a ton of fun. It's also very handy when you need to get some place and others aren't giving you space - instant torque often solves the problem. Considering how hard it is on the tires, I don't punch it at every stoplight like my first few months with it. Of course, if everyone gets an EV, I lose my performance advantage. Sigh.

[@sevenyearitch7936]

No range, to long to charge, no place to charge, broken down chargers and to expensive to buy. Don`t want them pushed down my throat. I will buy one when I can stop at a charging station, plug up, go to the bathroom, get a drink, unplug and go.

[@praetorian3571]

According to Akio Toyoda (former Toyota CEO), EV's are overhyped and not good for environment. There are truth in his statement.

[@davemiller6121]

Look, 95% of the time, you are more convenient than a gas vehicle if you have home charging, which is your own feuling station, no stopping at the gas station. So the time you save there, you lose some on the 5% of times you stop at a fast charger on a road trip.

[@WheresHerb]

See that's the point of EV's not being for everyone. Not everyone can have a charger installed at home/ where they live. ( apartments, condos, etc..). The vehicles are expensive already and if you're looking at another $5000.00 to have charger installed, you're not saving much over the life of the vehicle.

[@ShippyJack]

​@@WheresHerb$5000? I paid about 1/5th that in weak Canadian dollars to get a level 2 charger and have it hard wired in by an electrician. Situations vary, but $5k USD would be at the extreme end of the spectrum.

[@Andersljungberg]

The Tesla navigator tells you how much you need to charge the battery to get to another charger along the way or to the destination. Tesla also recommends where to charge the car after the route on the way to the destination. It also tells you on which roads there is road work on or traffic jams so you can avoid that road?

[@johnburkard3121]

Making a battery is more pollution than any other car would produce

[@mikewho9964]

A good balanced discussion - 2 points - i think the burning part could be debated - a few car carrying ships have been lost because of EV fires - EV fires in China are a real thing - you could bring into the discussion what happens in the event of an accident - are insurers more likely to write off the vehicle because the repair cost is too great or risky ? and so the owner only gets the agreed value but a repaired car is worth more to them ?

[@tom0428]

Electricity is cheap for now, once everyone have an EV the electricity will be same price as gas per kwh

[@clu4u]

The key is home solar panels, put energy back into the grid, and storage batteries. Tesla MegaPacks will bring revenue rivaling cars.

[@tom0428]

@@clu4u you go ahead and rent ur roof off 4 free, mean while pay 100k for a gadget that depreciate like cell phone

[@youtubecarspottersguide1]

for us who tow trailers what do we do with the trailer when we pull up to a charge sta ? what about 3am ? how much elec do I eat up on the Donner pass or the long grade from san berdino to Vegas ? middle of aug temp is 118?

[@SoullessAIMusic]

You're going to wait at the least an hour at best. That's because all of them run off of lithium ion batteries which are not environmentally friendly. You cannot charge these batteries too fast because then they might fail and you're dealing with a runoff situation. Essentially one cell catches fire, and then all the cells start to catch fire. These fires can last hours.

[@AndrewSienx]

About gas stations. In Norway, where there are more EVs, on the gas station, they close the pumps, and replace them with chargers. Also, in the rest of Europe, most new chargers are installed on gas stations. The problem with America - where there are not enough EVs to support the proper experience. But it's changing fast all over the world.

[@djflashlinx5150]

Much easier to pull off installing enough chargers in tiny little countries

[@carnivorepolice5-0]

The proper experience for you is not the same as the proper experience for us in America. We have different levels and distances of driving.

[@bonusb2924]

EV's make sense in limited applications. Forcing them upon society is ridiculous. They should be part of the formula to the solution. Let the consumer decide: ICE vs EV vs Hybrid vs etc...

[@leifleblanc160]

When using European countries as an example thats great but they are very small so distance is obviously not the issue . Id prefer hybrids with efficient small diesel. In trucks run a diesel generator similar to a train . Fewer batteries to reduce weight saving payload, this would make sense for the trades people who often must travel long distances daily .

[@Snerdles]

Series hybrids are generally less efficient, since running the engine as a generator, then converting to DC, then storing in a batter, then retrieving from the battery, then spinning the motor is far less efficient than just driving the wheels. Take a look at the highway EPA range of something like the new Mitsubishi Outlander vs the RAV4 Prime. The Outlander highway fuel estimates are abysmal, and it technically even has a clutch and a highway gear to drive the wheels in a few circumstances.

[@gordonmacqueen8694]

35:00 - don't forget that a significant amount of charging is going to happen at home/offices. Do you count the chargers that people have at their home in the half million? Some portion of them?

[@Nikephorus]

I don't hate EV's, but it would be extremely expensive and inconvenient for me where I live. I'm located in Northern Canada. So vehicle prices are quite a bit higher here than in the U.S. I had to purchase a new vehicle in 2020 and ended up getting a regular ICE vehicle because an equivalent EV was double the price (so out of my price range). Winters here are pretty cold so the range on EV's from the people I've spoke with that own them is reduced by quite a bit. In some cases nearly half. I looked into the cost of getting a lvl 2 charger installed at my house and that would be another couple thousand dollars on top of the increased initial cost of the vehicle. I live in a smallish size city and the charger network in my city is basically non-existent. So it's charge at home or not at all. There is only one power company where I live and they are not exactly cheap. They are definitely cheaper then if I was to purchase gas, but I'm worried once a majority of people switch to electric vehicles what they are going to be charging considering they have a monopoly.

[@DowjicNareen]

A lot of those considerations would apply in places in the USA like northern Minnesota, the Dakotas, Montana, etc. . DC fast charging is very sparse or non-existent in large parts of the country (including Tesla superchargers, for the Tesla fans). Cold weather and high prices for less capable vehicles don't create enthusiasm either, and EV enthusiasts don't even want to talk about it.

[@lotusjp]

Convert to propane health department you can do that it's all available in Canada

[@lotusjp]

Even if what you say will become true you still not doing fossil fuel which saves the environment

[@brianpreval5602]

maybe - just a guess here but maybe it's because the keep catching fire, people have had their hoses burnt down!!

[@aceone7048]

I would be interested in an electric vehicle if you could sell it for $20,000 and have 100 miles range. That way I can afford to have a second vehicle. I would use the electric vehicle for in town errands. And my other vehicle for towing, hauling and road trips.

[@johnh2614]

You can order a new Chevrolet bolt for $27,000 and after the $7500 tax credit you are under $20,000. But you better hurry because they are not taking any more orders in a couple of months.

[@moebeses]

I bought a used i3 Rex for $15k two years ago. Perfect for commuting, not great for road trips.

[@kng128]

Just wait for the Chinese to start exporting their cars just like Toyota and Honda did in the 1970's and '80s.

[@paulstandaert5709]

I can tell you why I don't like EVs. It's the batteries. Show me any battery ever in your life that was 10 years old and still strong. My youngest car is 8 years old right now. The next is 14. The next is 20, and the next is 24. How would these ever still be on the road if they were battery-powered?

[@waynewallace2061]

Let's not forget the questions regarding resale value, insurance rates(auto and home) and grid ability to handle even charge at home in Cali.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

My auto insurance rates were very comparable with my minivan for a Tesla Model Y in Florida. Home insurance didn't ask me if I had an EV or not. Jury is still out on EV resell - the last few years have been odd for all types of cars and the market is just now correcting. I use so much AC in Orlando that I don't even really notice charging at home.

[@peiguy1982]

My lightning standard range xlt is the nicest car I've owned. Cold weather range takes some getting use to. No knocking lifters on start up, no 8 speed transmissions that you can't change the fluid on. And I could go on. Plus Canada is 6 dollars a gallon for regular gasoline. I'm saving a ton of money compared to fueling my Ram 1500 Hemi.

[@Mike_Davidson]

Early adopter regrets. Luckily I didn’t drink the kool aid. 😂😂😂

[@yoyartube]

Like me there are millions living in apartments and condos where there is no infrastructure at all for plugging in a vehicle. The cost to retrofit a parking garage in a condo would be enormous if possible at all.

[@jacquesc3166]

Then add building/landlord insurance on top of that, and see how it affects rent for buddy who wanted to charge all night underground......

[@yoyartube]

Imagine a battery fire underground it would be a disaster. No thank you. @@jacquesc3166

[@saynotokaren9904]

What's your point other than you're not in a position to buy an EV and nobody is going to force you to buy an EV? Infrastructure takes time and property owners will get huge govt rebates to install chargers in Apts. Until then you're just going to have to stick to gas Capt obvious.

[@yoyartube]

I could buy an EV; I choose not to fall for that nonsense. You sound like a typical leftie fantasy land socialist where the gov can hand out infinite money consequence free for whatever purpose and we'll all live in utopia. BTW the term is subsidies not rebates for what you are referring to. @@saynotokaren9904

[@landlubber42069]

I like them all. I have a Model 3 Performance and now looking at a used 1/2 ton pickup to haul toys and tools. As a commuter and grocery getter, it's hard to beat an EV. I used to spend around 3000-4000 a year in fuel. Now I spend about $800 in extra electric. I wouldn't have bought one if I couldn't charge at home though. They will definitely not work for everyone and the politicians that are pushing to ban gas cars so soon are delusional.

[@ronaldoquintos1675]

Delusional Yes but I think it is inevitable and I own an EV / HEV shop here in Houston. I am contributing in a little way to make transition a bit less fearful with my fair price in service

[@John-209]

They’re actually very convenient, full tank every morning, most people charge at home. But pushing these on people is stupid

[@wt9653]

EVs in general aren't selling except for Tesla. Tesla sells every car it makes. People don't trust OEM when it comes to EV.. Dealerships market adjustments are also killing the sales. High interest rates don't help either. Even the ICE trrucks like Ram can't sell their vehicles.

[@Yihooni]

I don’t trust American made. Period. All pieces of junk.

[@gmv0553]

Tesla made more cars then it sold last quarter!

[@wt9653]

​@@gmv0553 480,000 production 466,000 delivery. +14,000 The ones on transit don't count. Big difference from 1000's production 1000's sitting at dealerships unsold. Every Quarter, Tesla is killing the previous quarters. Just under 2 million reservations for the Cybertruck. 1st Cybertruck rolled out last Saturday. Could see them delivered to employees early 4th quarter.

[@jeffs2809]

Ram has other problems besides being an ICE truck.... 1) Overall great looking truck, but overpriced vs competition. 2) HD's are outdated. I think they look good, but fact is the chassis is 10 years old and the cab isn't much better. 3) get rid of the 10k GVWR cap on the 2500's, 4) get rid of derated diesel option. 5) get competitive on power with the gas engine. 6) lose the 6 speed autos on the diesel trucks, they might work "OK", but people WANT more and the I6 cummins should benefit from more gears anyway. 7) get rid of the joke etorque "hybrid" and go with a useable hybrid or go back to the more reliable non-etorque system. 8) again, HD trucks are overpriced $3-5k vs comparable Ford/GM.

[@cathrynm]

If you have a plug at home, maybe. I would not want to depend on charging stations.

[@donaldroehrig7817]

I love technology. I love the idea of the EV with all the bell and whistles and helping the environment. I hate the range limitations, cold weather issues, limited charging locations, inconvenience, and excessive cost and EOL issues. There is zero reason, besides I like gadgets to purchase an EV. Sell them cheaper or for the same price, make it more convenient, make them so that I don't lose my butt when I want to sell it, and I'll buy one immediately.

[@mx3727]

Everyone "loves" the idea that EV's are "saving the environment". Unfortunately, the truth might be far different, but nobody seems to want to either discuss or acknowledge that. The environmental impact of a vehicle is so much more than just what comes out of the "tailpipe". The vehicle has to be built - that requires natural resources, and a subsequent environmental impact (to include the machinery used to acquire those natural resources, which at this time are not EV's themselves). It has to be maintained - that has an environmental impact. It has to be "fueled" - that has an environmental impact. And, it has to be disposed of (or potentially recycled?) at some point at the end of it's lifecycle - again, an environmental impact. You have to account for ALL of that and add it all up. If you do, you might be surprised at the result......

[@222aint]

do you want someone to change your diaper too?

[@donaldroehrig7817]

@@222aint I've changed more diapers that a sh!t stain like you could ever imagine. I've also owned more cars than most people, worked on them, and then sold them. Try trolling elsewhere.

[@paulieprinceton4550]

@@mx3727correct, the idea that EV’s are environmentally friendly is a lie. Between the toxic waste created in the production and disposal of batteries and solar panels to the mining of rare earth minerals required for the batteries and solar panels. Just look into the Chinese owned cobalt mines in the Congo. They are using men, women and children as slave labor without any basic safety precautions or requirements. It’s nothing more than emotional manipulation.

[@pressendforspanish]

There is nothing glorified about an EV. They are just golf carts.

[@when-cometh-bridegroom]

Roman, when you estimate the number of charging locations based strictly on the number of gas stations there are now, there's a key factor that shouldn't be ignored. Everyone with an ice vehicle depends on that traditional refueling infrastructure. They depend entirely on visiting the gas pumps to refuel. For many, the EV charging experience happens almost entirely (or even entirely) while they're going about their usual activities. They can "refuel" the EV at home - or at work, or even (where an outlet is provided) while shopping, having their hair done, visiting the gym or spa, the dentist, or whatever they want. Even when the EV owner roadtrips, they can spend the night at a motel/hotel where they can plug in. Or, their vehicle make's dealership. While the available outlets are far from ubiquitous, the numbers of convenient installations are growing.

[@paulstandaert5709]

For me, it is simple... Cost and longevity. If you have a lot of money to throw at vehicles, then fine... Electric is the way to go. But if you prefer to not invest tens of thousands of dollars in depreciable assets and buy something that works just fine for $5,000 that will last a good 10 years and remain serviceable, then you can throw the electric car idea right out the window. Do YOU want to be that poor sucker with an out-of-warranty 85+kw battery that costs $20,000 to replace? Every battery powered device I have ever owned had the battery go bad before the rest of it, and how should the electric car be much different? If the transmission of my $5,000 car bites the dust, I can be back in action for a grand. I never had an engine fail me so badly that it cost terrible amounts of money.

[@doublebackagain4311]

Hybrids have been around for 25 years - why can they not make a case for them?

[@tazeat]

Partly because most makes can't be trusted to make them. In the cheap space, who needs two distinct systems built around planned obsolescence? Toyota cant make enough of them, they move more RAV4, Highlander, Prius Hybrids than the rest of the makes hybrids combined.

[@VectorW8015]

Seriously, the pollution created by each electric vehicle produced as it rolls off the assembly line is equal to a gas vehicle produced and driven for 350,000 miles. The electric vehicle hasn't even left the factory. Also who wants to drive a blender?