An analysis of PVZ3's Soft-launch

PVZ3 has recently soft-launched, which means I have to make a video on it. This video may technically be 3 months or so late, but that was mostly because finding anything interesting to say about PVZ3 is an impossible ask, frankly. But whatever, you all get a new creeps video and should all stop complaining, obviously.
Joking aside, PVZ3 has some elements worth talking about, and some of you may not know it even exists yet, so this video feels worth making. PVZ3 is absolutely fundamentally a big deal to people who play the games, so I have to have at least one video dedicated to it. And my old video is super old so that one doesn't count apparently.
Don't expect another PVZ3 video because this one was categorically not fun to make and boy am I glad to be shot with it.
My Discord: / discord
Timestamps:
0:00: Intro
3:33: Whats so different about PVZ3?
9:32: Power-Up Centric Design
14:17: Plants VS Zombies and Power
18:56: Goings n in Suburbia
22:56: PVZ3 and Gardenscapes
25:58: PVZ3 does not Matter.
30:43: Conclusions
Footage is from:
Plants VS Zombies 2: Eclise
Plants VS Zombies 2: Reflourished
(both are mods)
Plants VS Zombies 2
Candy Crush
Helldivers 2
Cassete Beasts
DOOM (1993)
Gardenscapes
Lily's Garden
Music used (in order of appearance):
Grasswalk - PVZ1
Rigor Mortis - PVZ1
Wild West - PVZ2
Chemistry On and On - OMORI
Decisive Battle - Hollow Knight
Snow Forest - OMORI
Deal em out - Undertale Yellow
Spaces Inbetween - OMORI
Trees... - OMORI
NMT Choose Your Seeds but in the style of Garden Rush - • Neon Mixtape Tour: Cho...

[@SamenPvz]

Pvz3 has made me appreciate the original plants vs zombies a whole lot more.

[@CoralReaper707]

Same It also helped me appreciate pre arena pvz2 significantly more

[@Creeps20]

your not wrong

[@steadfast1448]

pvz3 makes the previous 2 games look like game of the year matireal

[@shiomaneki]

Honestly? Maybe that was even part of their plan.

[@majintrunky6255]

Same but for PvZ 2 too

[@alexniccah]

I was out as soon as i saw "No choose your seeds." That's one of the most important parts of plants vs zombies.

[@wingdingfontbro]

Not just PvZ but tower defense games in general. Like literally every tower defense allows you to choose your defense in one way or another, never forcing you to have to use a specific set of towers, and when they do, like for example Emberward, which is also a rougelike, uses this to its advantage as it’s nature as a rougelike, randomly finding and accessing new types of towers as you go along. This does force you to have a specific tower lineup/deck/loadout/whatever you may call it, but that’s part of the charm, unlike here where the forced plants just take away any of the actual flavor the prior games had. On a seperate note, isn’t this similar to how bfn went down? The Garden Warfare games were prized for having a diverse selection of plants to choose from in the form of variants which had different primaries, extra abilities, health differences, ect and this was entirely removed when bfn came along. The same damned thing happened with this game, all variety and choice was completely removed, which was the ENTIRE REASON I loved all prior pvz games.

[@byeguyssry]

​@wingdingfontbro I don't think it's a necessity to be able to choose what you bring into a stage. I think that this in PvZ3 merely makes the powerups more blatant; since one of the parts that challenges your skill is removed, if you feel like you're already playing well, then it's obvious that you're being forced to use powerups rather than you just not choosing the right plants. I do also think it reduces the amount of people who would enjoy the game; I'm sure that people like you to enjoy the customization aspect wouldn't like it, but I do think many people could still enjoy a Tower Defense game that chooses your units for you, and would have a slightly different target audience.

[@bennyl9228]

99.9999999999999999999% of the game is about the plants and how you pick and use the plants. PVZ went from a strategy game about silly plants killing zombies to a game about grinding to get stupidly overpowered plants to a game about taking Gardenscapes and stuffing it in with a bit of horribly made PVZ-style gameplay.

[@alexniccah]

@@bennyl9228 the 0.0000000000000000001% is minigames, right?

[@maewschannel]

popcap trying to not change the formula for the 3rd part and ruining everything challenge (impossible 99.99% fail)

[@Gamesmarts194]

Not 5 minutes in and already what I hear that you CANNOT -Pick your plants -Pick which level you play -Control zombie waves -"Die" in more than 2 lanes TOTAL (instead of twice in a specific lane) -Play whenever you feel like it (due to needing lives) And yet somehow this game was still greenlit.

[@endermanowa]

It was greenlit because they saw how much money other trashy mobile games of this type earn It's only about money

[@The_hot_blue_fire_guy]

Of course it was green-lit. It’s a textbook mobile game model and apparently those generate a lot of money these days. You would be one of the dumbest companies on earth if you didn’t green-light a project like this. Remember that companies don’t give a shit about consumers as long as those consumers pay! If people buy/pay, the companies can care less if the game is actually fun or balanced.

[@khaorix2667]

PVZ 1 and 2 were also mobile games and made a ton of money though. This is just lazy.

[@The_hot_blue_fire_guy]

@@khaorix2667 PVZ1 was a payed game on PC before it got released on mobile and consoles. And PVZ2 was released at a time where mobile games weren’t nearly as greedy as they are today.

[@sibericusthefrosty9950]

I hope you guys are differentiating the crap games that PvZ3 based itself from from actual great games.

[@devastatheseeker9967]

"you can't pick your seeds" There you go, dead on arrival

[@hadijahabutazil9132]

Not just that live system,dynamic difficultly,2 new world gimmicks that are obviously mediocre less worlds

[@AveryLovesGlitchcore]

The absolute WHIPLASH of seeing the pvz3 animations compared to pvz2 animations-

[@ConsarnitTokkori]

3 feels over animated as h*ck especially with the imps and peashooters

[@doodlehates_uttp]

Am I the only one that noticed that when squash hits a waterbound zombie he just sort of slams into the water but doesn't make a splash

[@ghoulbuster1]

Souless corporate artstyle.

[@primalpeashooter]

i don't think its as bad as other people say but it definitely feels corporate

[@ba6tatz]

@@primalpeashooter isn't too bad in my opinion, but screams fanmade

[@CoralReaper707]

I feel like pvz2's dip in quality could definitely warrant a video. Dear god, the animation and designs for modern pvz2 stuff are just...why.

[@steadfast1448]

Yeah. The new plants look like Chinese pvz2 plants now

[@CoralReaper707]

@steadfast1448 Not even. Cuz at least the Chinese plants can genuinely have some good-looking designs and solid animation.

[@steadfast1448]

@@CoralReaper707 The animation fell off after they added the blockoli or whatever its called

[@shiomaneki]

@@steadfast1448 that's an insult to the chinese cob cannon, the new plants just look ugly. Either that or the plant is fine but the animation is ugly.

[@timedeathe]

@@shiomaneki sea shroom and guard shroom are improvements lets hope it contues that way

[@ignited_pea]

Hear me out, this game is the Megamind Vs The Doom Syndicate of PopCap

[@genarftheunfuni5227]

More like Kung Fu Panda 4, it's good but only when you isolate it from the other entries, comparing it to them makes it look a lot worse than it is from a surface level

[@N12015]

@@genarftheunfuni5227 I would say more like a Shrek the Third, a bad game specially compared to the other ones but not a complete disaster.

[@fortnitesexman]

@@N12015shrek the third is a cinematic disaster 💀

[@fortnitesexman]

@@genarftheunfuni5227really wouldn't compare it to KFP4 it's peak mediocrity, meanwhile pvz3 is actively a bad game

[@GetGotSans]

​@N12015 personally, the 4th shrek movie was my least favorite entry, but at least it had originality

[@LiterallyAlive]

Tugboat is actually the best and most original thing in whole PvZ 3

[@A_Surpluss_of_Stupidity]

Tugboat is from the comics so... he's not original

[@magicaiitem1845]

but... it's tugboat

[@raulzueiroADM]

@@A_Surpluss_of_Stupiditybut he still the goat

[@A_Surpluss_of_Stupidity]

@@raulzueiroADM true

[@miimiiandco]

​@raulzueiroADM he's the boat.

[@primalpeashooter]

How do you manage to combine the absolute worst level design of both pvz 1 and 2; the game somehow smashes together the most unfair and difficult level design of pvz2 and the most boring and easy level design of pvz 1 together into a single game. It's genuinely so bad that I can't even be that angry about it but rather so impressed.

[@JoseViktor4099]

I can imagine why; Because the devs has no idea of what does it make a PvZ game good (they changed devs three times for now) and they used the most superficial things for nostalgia bait, adding some trend elements, such as Clash Royale (2020 build) or GardenScapes. This result on a Franquestein monster which only pours inconsistency for all it sides.

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

Comparison to reflourished mod it was actually possible to beat if you got the right plants

[@bluedragonsden7222]

Probably a mix of bad design and greed, likely the greed part, I don't think the people in charge actually care about making a good game/product at all

[@normalchannel2185]

@@bluedragonsden7222 Not bad design. Everything here was perfectly designed. But the aim was not to make a good game, or heck even to make it worth anything. The aim was the use an already established IP to print money, and they did a THOROUGH case study on ALL manipulative and predatory tactics Heck, this is a PERFECT case study for a predatory game(so good that someone can probably do a freaking Psych PhD on it)

[@aereonexapprentice7205]

​@@normalchannel2185Adding to this, it is exactly by design. Overly easy-braindead levels to not turn away the equally braindead whales or kids with their mother's credit card, and the impossibly hard pure-RNG late levels to, surprise surprise, force you to use and buy their "powerups". Oh and pure RNG to cut corners and save money by not designing actual levels.

[@liimelichen]

After playing reflourished, I realised how good pvz2 is. It's crazy how far they've fell from pvz1, and I'm thankful that the mod comunity is so active

[@drcgad3052]

Only good thing I can say about pvz3 is using elements from the comics……….. that’s about it

[@Koronofoxy]

It's reminds me of fnaf 9 ruin.

[@mydogghost]

The art style is neat

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Although Garden Warfare 2 does create reference to the Comic, especially with Breakfast Brains who's a nod of Dr. Zomboss' favorite snack, Pop Smarts... Plus Mr Stubbins mentioned at Battle for Neighbourville...

[@glitchking2801]

@@mydogghostya some things look a bit weird but all and all the art style makes the planet look cute

[@lovelysunny5753]

Yea

[@JackEhttack]

PopCap no longer exists. I can state this confidently as I had the chance to visit their offices in Seattle. It is now an EA office and the only staff left there are legal and HR, the game developers long gone.

[@re4perthegamer]

as soon as I saw the bad parts of PVZ2 I knew this, it is still a good game because it was originally made by popcap, PVZ3 was not and is horrible

[@NeoBing]

This is now your “Downfall of PvZ” video. Whether you choose to take that as a compliment or insult is up to you.

[@JoseViktor4099]

Idk, but I remember a video of that "PvZ Downfall " criticising PvZ2 and one of the claims were "the musicians also got worse, just compare *LoonBoon* to *Ancient Egypt* " (For context, Ancient Egypt is one of the few ost which were actually composed by Laura Shiginara, Pvz1 Composer)

[@GNVS300]

@@JoseViktor4099 The Beak, lol what a dipshit

[@THE_TRAPPYMAN]

Loonboon is for minigame while ancient egypt is for ambience and setting they should not have been compared if it was the music you hear during levels back then it wouldve maybe made sense

[@Megajaybreaker4]

@@JoseViktor4099the beak is who you’re thinking of. EVERYONE should hate that video.

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@THE_TRAPPYMAN Unfair and stupid comparison. Of course Braniac Maniac is gonna be far more memorable than Zen Garden.

[@AncientFire]

Pvz3 is two things: A human killing lawnmower, a destroyer of lawns, with a taste for blood. tugboat

[@Dexuz]

So basically Anakin or Heavy.

[@loggerT123]

The thing is, their formula COULD have worked. Heck, reflourished has so many levels where you cant choose your own plants, yet they all feel fresh and unique. Why? Because each plant is carefully thought out to make the level as fun and exciting as possible. Pvz3, on the other hand, picks the same plants for like 30 levels.

[@endermanowa]

And that's because of how few plants there are in the game It's impossible to make unique lineups with only so many choices It feels like they only did bare minimum effort

[@youtube-kit9450]

From what I saw in the video, there just seems to be way too few plants and zombies alike to make interesting levels.

[@armoredman6941]

13 plants

[@devilbowser253]

i will always say it, EA buying popcap was both the best and worst thing to happen to the studio, on one hand we probably wouldnt have gotten the garden warfare games, heroes and all of the fangames we have now if they hadnt bought popcap, on the other hand look at the official games now

[@superbrainz2357]

It's actually crazy how good the gw1 to heroes era of pvz was and it's a darn shame the gw games weren't bigger than they were thanks to having EA's name attached to them despite their quality, far worthier as tf2 inspired games than overwatch. Heck I'd even say heroes has my favorite art style for the 2d games. Crazy how much the series fell off after that with gw2 and pvz2 being hit the hardest by it as seen with the portal degradation and art style getting worse.

[@Azurethewolf168]

⁠​⁠@@superbrainz2357I think just due to them firing a bunch of people and then having the GW2 staff work on BFN, which then also was a failure. EA could’ve made the PvZ shooters into a huge franchise yet they just killed it.

[@superbrainz2357]

@@Azurethewolf168 The gw2 to bfn disaster happened a pve game they had cooking got canned. How does a franchise with such potential manage to take L after L but common garbage sweeps the market. It just isn't fair!

[@Azurethewolf168]

@@superbrainz2357 The scrapped games actually are better in concept than the actual games they put out, I would’ve preferred a PvZ football game or project hot tub over PvZ3

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

​@@Azurethewolf168 I like the new gameplay of that scrapped game like the idea of plants act as your companions and both have different abilities

[@Super_EpicGuy]

4:25 The problem with this is that for the younger generations -the ones who have the short attention spans- the entire draw of Plans vs Zombies is building an unstoppable defense and watching it chew through any zombie that tries to face it, at least that's what drew me into the game as a kid. Dropping the core thing that casual players find most interesting means that there's gonna be little reason for casual players to want to play the game Edit: Shoulda expected Creeps to mention this later in the video but also I still want to point out that it's really dumb when game companies forcibly simplify a game series because they think that the newer generation has a "Shorter attention span" because it's always executed terribly

[@timedeathe]

They actually don't we always had short attention span for survival. after all your dead meat in the wild when you can't identify a snake because of your long attention span. Its really just things going back to normal

[@chrisk6637]

​@@timedeathetf yoy yapping about?

[@N12015]

I HATE this line of thinking. Kids know less about stuff but are better at learning. I've seen literal prodigies win big tournaments despite being only kids, and happens quite often to the point you notice they don't need condescendency for them, just explain clear and simple how to play.

[@Zabe_B]

tbh i think that's just why they say they make games simpler and shorter. the truth is if they make games simpler and shorter they can save more money on their bottom line. mobile "games" are often not games at this point, but business investments for those that create or commission them.

[@mariustan9275]

@@timedeathe That isn't short attention span. That would be survival instinct and quick decision making, not short attention span.

[@legendsiscool]

pvz3 has less features then the first game, the shop doesnt exist, no zen garden, minigames were removed besides vase breaker (its too easy), no bosses, and no plant selection this game is the bare minimum

[@blakksheep736]

Somehow I think it's hearing there's only 13 plants _in the whole game_ that shook me. I'm pretty sure there's more plants than that in the first 2 worlds of pvz2.

[@Theblindingofissac]

I’m just sad that they removed the PvZ hero’s zombies, that was at least cool to see, I had high expectations for this, but this is garbage, even compared to some Chinese versions, it’s sad to see the game descend to a “gardenscapes minigame” type thing

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Yeah, like I want to see all of the Zombie Heroes as bosses... Plus that one is probably an early sign that we probably might be able to deploy Plant Heroes on the field...

[@fortnitesexman]

surprised they didn't do it, it would've been so damn easy to rip off btd6's heroes lmao

[@superbrainz2357]

I honestly really loved how the original pvz3 acknowledged the spinoff and had some interesting ideas with them. Don't get me wrong as old pvz 3 was still meh but it genuinely had more unique ideas.

[@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917]

​@@TreverEver-bs9svi think there's Immorticia in one of the earliest Release of PvZ3

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

@@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917 Yeah, I'm actually know that along the codes involved with The Smash... But yeah so many missed opportunities... Plus Immorticia was returned at PvZ Match...

[@CubicDoggo]

i REALLY wish that they took more inspiration from games like Hay Day instead of Garden-scape. Since the story is all about 'rebuilding' suburbia, I think it would be way more fun if u could place things wherever you wanted on a block, making your own designs. Also, they could've implimented planting like they do in Hay Day, where u harvest Seed Packets to use in levels (having higher level plants take longer to grow, so u can't spam them) Like, if they're going to go the mobile game route, i would've thought it would fit MUCH BETTER and be MORE FUN, because then theres an actual game apart from just being a Visual Novel. It'd be like a reimagining of the Plant Food Minigame from PvZ2, where u can take care of plants to grow seed packets, and then be able to take them into levels.

[@thediabolicalraisin8953]

That's what they did with PVZ online

[@Knight9508]

Those features are literally like from pvz adventures

[@vradeus3438]

Monkey City but PvZ

[@glauberglousger956]

The first half of PVZ 2 was the peak of PVZ, with both 1 and 2 being rather similar and just good games, it's been almost a consistent line/spiral downwards from there

[@LucasDakami]

Best thing about PvZ3 is that Mo is canonically the Robot behind the Slaughter.

[@immtnn8622]

W

[@Azurethewolf168]

The writers went all out, literally making the storyline devolve into some apocalyptic scenario while the gameplay and art is kid friendly

[@MrcreeperDXD777]

⁠o o😊 o

[@chaosinc.382]

Behind the WHAT.

[@Azurethewolf168]

@@chaosinc.382 yes. For a time in the story, Mo admits to massacring Dave’s garden. This game is weird cause it has these dark undertones like the first game yet plays it off with a goofy art style.

[@TheBluehatPerson]

The fact that most of the gameplay core of PvZ3 is literally ripped from Gardenscapes including the similar power-up placements and event cycles is just... wow, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!!??? I'm just sad now. There really is nothing creative in PvZ 3 at all, why do they even think this was a good idea it's literally a mess, like everything is so disconnected. it almost makes me wish if they could restart again, but yeah... i don't think they can go back, they're not popcap.

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Yeah... It's kinda sad that instead of improving the Old PvZ3 (The 3D one) into better, but instead they scrapped everything of it then "reworked" into PvZ3 Welcome to Zomburbia... PvZ3 Welcome to Zomburbia didn't even feel like a sequel, it's more of a community reboot to the original series unlike Old PvZ3... Justice for Sawgrass and Skeleton Zombie!

[@TiredAkami]

The one thing I strangely love about pvz3 is the art style of plants, but that’s about where the upsides end.

[@gavinrosequist191]

It pains me to think we haven’t had a good PvZ game since GW2

[@nathanblackburn1193]

The main issue with PVZ3 is simply the lack of variety, the "lawns" are varied but the plants and zombies get drip fed at a molasses rate, the plants are fixed per level too limiting creativity, there's no freedom or fun. (It's also just an obvious micro transaction cash grab)

[@JoseViktor4099]

4:39 Fun fact: This kinda also happened on the first PvZ2 versions and people complained a lot about it so it was quickly removed. How obvious that they aren't the same devs eh?

[@maglev957]

Im going to take this opportunity to say that the first PvZ3 beta had some pretty cool specials that its a shame we're most certainly never going to see again. Justice for Zomblob.

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Same... Plus Old PvZ3 even brings back like a lot of community nods to the original games, like Immorticia and somehow The Smash according to its game file, bring back PvZ2 Zombies but making it still fitting to the present day (MC Zombie, Chicken Wrangler Zombie and Bikini Zombie as Sunbather Zombie), Miner Zombie from PvZ1. Plus they even nod the Gardern Warfare Series and Battle for Neighbourville. Don't forget they also included 5 Zombies' body structure base too (Normal, Imp, Obese, Bully and Gargantuar). I'm despite the ones who instantly create negative feedback without thinking what happened to PopCap and knowing the game's story... Plus justice for my favourite new Old PvZ3 plant and zombie, Sawgrass and Skeleton Zombie!

[@ba6tatz]

@@TreverEver-bs9sv tacos weren't a bad idea also

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

What's make worst about New PvZ3 is that it was a lack of nods from previous games, unlike Old PvZ3 who contained like a lot of references from their previous games, like it's the first time we seeing Immorticia debut at the mainline PvZ game but sadly all of that from Old PvZ3 was end up scrapped... 😢 Please come back, Sawgrass...

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Ps. Sure New PvZ3 game was the first time it's making nods to the Dark Horse Comic but with the cost of New PvZ3 act like a Community Reboot instead of an actual sequel...

[@lunathekuduruk1311]

They even added the zombot drone from gw1 which was only in that game and didnt even appear in gw2

[@Azurethewolf168]

Well that was a totally different team, not to mention was being developed at the same time as the other PvZ games in 2016. It makes sense it has those references.

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

@@lunathekuduruk1311 Plus Gravedigger Zombie who was a scrapped Zombie for Garden Warfare does appears in Old PvZ3 as the replacement version of Tomb Raiser Zombie but placing 2 or 3 random graved at the lawn...

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

@@Azurethewolf168 Kinda sad all of them were retired or fired because of the things they were suffered from fans and the company...

[@NotAsItOnceWas]

14:45 as someone who is going through another Doom phase right now, "all the *good* Doom games" got me lmao

[@yams7355]

Have the modern doom games been getting hate lately?

[@aidanpalmer4720]

We don't talk about doom 3

[@dom20141]

@@yams7355 There's a bunch of people that can't stand the change. Kinda sad but whatever, people will hate anything

[@yams7355]

@@dom20141 to each their own for sure, but it makes more sense to say it's not for them than to say they're straight up bad. 2016 and Eternal have a lot of love put into them. If he originally meant Doom 3, though, maybe I can kinda get that...

[@dom20141]

@@yams7355 People are just really bad with change. There's an even more hateful community for the newer God of War games. I don't get it, but it is what it is.

[@pyropian8640]

Tugboat has TF2 level of character design

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Probably because he's the original Browncoat Zombie himself who volunteered as a part of cloning at the Zombie Maker Machine for Zomboss...

[@thatsaltypeashooter]

Actually, Tugboat was originally designed by the author of the PvZ Comics, Paul Tobin. So, he's the one who actually designed Tugboat. This game is heavily based on the comics. With Patrick Blazing, Tugboat, and the Gumball Machine Powerup being a character from one of the comics (The circus one).

[@handlessuckdick]

Based comment.

[@nickk3077]

I used to hate the power up system in PvZ2, but after playing a lot more PvZ2 as of lately and watching Wolfy's playthrough of the game, I realize it's actually not that bad. Although it basically helps you win or get through a tough section, it firstly helps players that are struggling through the game because PvZ2 is definitely much hard than PvZ1. Secondly, yes, it does costs coins, which are a limited resource, but the silver lining with that is that it turns power ups into a last resort in which you only use them if you believe you can't use any further skill to get past this point. The are a few different ways of getting coins, so it's not as if you are forced to spend real life money. They are basically an inoffensive accessibility option and I appreciate that. Everyone remembers how bad going into Big Wave Beach day 16 was, so the fact that you can beat the level with help from power ups makes the level much more tolerable. (So, I actually am not a big fan when mods remove them because some mods are just much harder.) Now, comparatively, the way PvZ3 handles its power up system is much more offensive. PvZ3 is just simply a lot harder. The game limits your options, so if you aren't good with a certain setup, then it's just too bad for you. The power ups, which are supposed to be this accessibility option, are now scarcer in this game when the game should make them easier to obtain because of the increased difficulty. It's just another way that this game is objectively less fun to play than its predecessors. I think the worst part is that they advertise these power ups to you for real life cash way more than in PvZ2. It just makes this system come off as the game being really greedy for your money.

[@nickk3077]

I actually commonly hate it when I see these accessibility options in some video game. Like, every Mario game nowadays for example has this when that was never a feature in earlier Mario games, while the subsequent games just become easier. It's fine for little 5-year-olds but alienates anyone who's liked playing those games since they were much younger. Like, I think that PvZ2 making you pay a small fee for its power ups makes them feel a lot more cleaver than an instant win button for accessibility.

[@LUCAS420BLZ]

Plant food is basically a cheap way to win in pvz2 but we never think of it that way because it's freely given Its only when it's pay walled we think it's up to no good And we also do get power ups for free And they do help get past horribly designed levels whenever they're available

[@glauberglousger956]

I really want to see how much further PVZ 4 could be simplified No animations, pixelated low quality child drawings, no writing or dialogue at all apart from on-liners from Dave and Zomboss for... Reasons All the microtransactions and ads possible, covering up parts of the screen and sabotaging your gameplay, of course you can pay to get rid of them temporarily

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Every level costs 0.99c but they're all exactly the same, reinventing the arcade machine.

[@anmspafan7855]

Sun must be gained from the PVZ 1 slot machine minigame, but it costs real money to spin

[@jasonchiu272]

Plants that were originally free in the earlier games now have this "limited trial" where you can use them for a short period of time but then need to do something (like pay money) to temporarily get them.

[@RandomDude1487]

I feel like we should stay with the older games, because EA is quickly making the series die like they want to kill it off to make room for a new cash grab series.

[@endermanowa]

They don't want to make a new series, that'd take some creativity and effort to develop They want to milk what they already have

[@RandomDude1487]

@@endermanowa nah they’d blatantly steal all code from subway surfers and put the sims characters over everything so it looks original

[@td-3d172]

It's sad to knowing that this could be the final pvz game.

[@WarFoxThunder]

Ikr...

[@chrisblanco9036]

After reading your comment, my mind immediately said that quote from this one guy, “My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.”

[@re4perthegamer]

it sad you know, I played a pvz demo (only the first 6 levels on loop) over and over and still found it fun, no ads, no microtransactions. i was 3-5 at the time

[@Jar3xe]

Then there's Zombies Match

[@HungryWarden]

This franchise could’ve been so creative.

[@prof.laytonfan764]

A shame really. The early PVZ 3 beta had some neat ideas, but terrible gameplay. It baffles me that EA saw the failure of the beta and thought that taking out the more creative ideas was the solution. Now the game is just boring with terrible gameplay,

[@Zabe_B]

tbh i think the execs want the terrible gameplay because it makes it easier to push microtransactions. like, how many mobile games would be massively improved if they just got rid of the time gates, lives, limited currency, etc? but of course they will never get rid of those things because it's what makes the mobile market so incredibly profitable. as was said in the video, the levels are designed around the powerups, because you're supposed to buy them so you can keep playing and don't run out of lives. and keep buying them, until EA has squeezed every last cent out of you that they can get. they're relying on the pvz brand recognition to get people to download and hopefully be suckered into giving them money. sorry to be so cynical, but the fact is that most mobile "games" nowadays are really just business investments for those that create or commission them, so a lot of the "game design" involves creating FOMO and tricking players into thinking they'll have more fun if they give you money

[@user-lk6er2dn8p]

comparing Pvz3 to the rest of the franchise is like comparing a wothless money-designed cash grab of a dumpster fire to some games that sereved as the childhood of many... Oh wait, *IT IS*

[@knuxchux]

I really hope this terrible game makes people revisit PvZ2 and see it as more than a soulless cash grab. That has thought put into it; this doesn’t. I wish the IP was in public domain so the fans could make a REAL sequel.

[@MountainMemelord]

Damn you, Disney...

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

PvZ 2 was released in 2013. Of course, it's not soulless.

[@Azurethewolf168]

@@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewerwith sequels, there’s always a effort made to emulate the feeling and success of the first game. With the third, it’s just a cash grab.

[@Arcana_zero_studios]

I feel like mobile games need to stop being games made for phones, and more like games that are just on phones. No 'log-in bonuses', life systems need to be relegated to platformers, either pay to play or keep the microtransactions to simple cosmetics that are well thought out and not color pallette and pattern swaps. A good game is something you can enjoy, either as a means of unwinding or challenging yourself with difficulty options and extra challenges. Replayability and Story are related, but shouldn't have to suffer at the other's expense, Devil May Cry can do this, so why does it feel like almost no one else can casually do this? Every other game has added difficulty and fan made challenges, which yeah DMC also has this but it also has more beyond that. You get the need to improve, the sense of progress is in narrative and your preformance in gameplay.

[@sibericusthefrosty9950]

You sir actually put it well. Don't try copying "those games," and instead make a great game that just so happen to be mobile only. As mobile is just a medium for games, like PC and console. And games like that already exist, you just need to look harder.

[@ReubensStuff]

2:49 about this point, as someone who played old pvz3, in about late September 2020 it received its final update, version 20.0. This update seemed to improve a lot of smaller things about the game, and it also just looked a lot less soft-launchy than it did in lets say, March 2020. What happens literally 1 or 2 weeks later? They announce the game is shutting down in November. I have a feeling the game was meant to release in October, like PvZ heroes. Therefore, new pvz3 can ABSOLUTELY be cancelled at any time, considering for a soft launch old pvz3 did quite well for being in 1 or 2 regions, with 800,000 downloads. (Which new pvz3 has already surpassed, so there’s a fun fact).

[@Azurethewolf168]

What I don’t understand is why they didn’t revamp the old version and instead scrap all of it to make a worse game? It would’ve been so easy to just do a few changes in the art style, gameplay along with some new content and that would be it.

[@timedeathe]

​@Azurethewolf168 Because people went crazy about plant leveling being in the game and sent death threats for it.

[@Azurethewolf168]

@@timedeathe well we were all kids then, and I agree it did make things way worse but it wasn’t that bad

[@timedeathe]

@@Azurethewolf168 that was 2019 sir. If you were a kid back in that date then why do you have a KZbin account? It's 13 and up.

[@Azurethewolf168]

@@timedeathe no man I mean like most of the community were kids then, pretty sure it was like 2017 or so when they added leveling. Even now, many of the community are kids.

[@thelifeless125]

basically "this game is so bad I'm not even gonna shit on it"

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

Basically "it's not even a game".

[@ppchan9516]

we need zackscott appreciation day for archiving literally all of pvz

[@Suchti0352]

The biggest thing I miss from the original pvz3 is the taco time and most importantly the tacobilities that came with it.

[@RGC_animation]

They were so focused on drawing out every last penny out of you, that they forgot the most important part, making the game fun, or even just fun enough to be addictive. No amount of predatory design choice will make people spend money if they aren't invested enough to spend money in the first place.

[@underrated1524]

What EA/Popcap is doing here is liquidating pre-existing investment in the PVZ franchise. The lifecycle of all good brands is to start out with extremely high-quality soup to attract customers, then water down the soup bit by bit until the customers are all gone, then repeat with a new brand identity. PVZ appears to be in the end stages of this lifecycle.

[@timedeathe]

​@@underrated15242026 new tower defense game that's not pvz 2 with a different paint

[@jossuecabrera8611]

I thought the original, first softlaunch for ovz3 was kinda bad. Now I really want that version of the game back. At least it has an elemental system, amd upgrading system and more unique plants, maps and zombies

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Don't forget boss fights and community nods to previous PvZ games...

[@velvetdraws3452]

"perhaps i judged you too harshly"

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

Yep, and conditions to upgrade certain plant above certain level for beginning the floor... which were added with the same update as elemental system.

[@jossuecabrera8611]

@@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer exactly. Upgrades would have fit very well with pvz since upgrades are an essential part to most tower defense games. I would imagine a smaller seed selection, but that would be to incorporate upgrades to plants. Like, remove repeater and fire peashooter from the game and make them upgrades for the peashooter. You see? Already that's a good pvz concept

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

@@jossuecabrera8611 I meant the level cups to levels, not the upgrades for plants.

[@DJ_Wolfy5]

PvZ3 hands out infinity brains like candy. I constantly find myself having multiple hours of infinity brains after playing for less than 30 mins. Has anyone actually ran out of lives?

[@andistansbury4366]

There's also the fact THAT THEY JUST TURNED IT INTO EPHING HOMESCAPES

[@hightensionjapanesegoblin9821]

I read almost all of the PvZ comics and I just gotta say. I would much rather just reread those than play this.

[@q_0191]

quick questions: is the game similar to the comics? are the comics "good"? was mo in the comics? if mo was did they also kill the younglings in the comics?

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

​@@q_0191 Patrick was badass in the comics Crazy Dave is on some crazy random adventures and stuff Tugboat has 2 bros Dr zomboss:pathetic loser

[@hightensionjapanesegoblin9821]

@@q_0191 I read them a good 7 years ago, but I'll awnser what I can off memory. The comics act roughly similar to how Garden Warfare was situated. Nate and Penny act as a single protagonist, effectively taking the role of player. Crazy Dave occasionally did stuff too. "Good" is subjective obviously, and I was young when I read em. But as far as I can remember, pacing was great and each comic told a unique and entertaining story. And no, Mo never showed up.

[@q_0191]

@@hightensionjapanesegoblin9821 awwww, but thank you for the info!

[@hiwka0w575]

Adding "Welcome to Zomburbia" into the title is a nice improvement already Now remove "3" from the title and we're good

[@thescaryscream5963]

I believe i kinda get where you're going. So basically just make it a spin-off kinda game, like the heroes game, and not a official third part. If that's what you meant, i totally agree.

[@aruce9]

Ah I love sunk cost fallacy

[@RidiculousTies]

14:30 CASETTE BEASTS REFERENCE HUGE

[@wren441]

RAAAAHHH CASSETTE BEASTS!! WHERE IS MY MULTIPLAYER UPDATE

[@squiddu]

the more people talk about games made with Godot I smile a lot

[@hedgehoggaming50]

Before the video an ad to Disney+ played and that classic epic intro theme fit this perfectly

[@rlcraftisharder4036]

Literally the only person I know that even enjoys this is Zebra Gamer

[@kindwolf7700]

What is Zebra Gamer smoking to think that this game is good?!

[@_Ex1led_]

imagine if pvz modders made their own pvz 3, that’d be pretty nice

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

I've heard they banned mods in pvz3 because they maybe aware of "competition"

[@m4rcyonstation93]

Altverz, reflourished, eclise, requiem, spice, quasar

[@_Ex1led_]

@@m4rcyonstation93 I used to play mods but bluestacks took up too much of my storage so now I just play my old vanilla save on mobile ;-;

[@TheRealDuskSky]

i really enjoy this long kind of video!! keep up the good work!!

[@jacksongreen4107]

Can I just say that the background music choices are on point? Gotta love Undertale Yellow music.

[@cybervirus2029]

I had the idea of wanting to make a pvz fan game balanced around fighting against a horde of zombies, like left4dead 2 or World War Z Levels of zombies.

[@camwoodstock]

it's called PvZ3 because they made it 3--no, 4--no, 5 times

[@hadijahabutazil9132]

More like they should call it adventures 2 since adventures also had limited plants

[@Sillyquincy]

It’s crazy on how you can’t choose your plants in pvz 3, but you can use every single monkey in btd6.

[@MooverCat]

Great Video! Really well put together

[@bbboi9127]

I feel like the gameplay itself is fine in pvz3. What drags the game down is the lack of content in the gameplay that makes it get stale quick. I don’t feel like updates have helped either. So far they added Sunshroom - which is just better sun producer. The rock and roll imp - basically just a slightly bulkier imp. Plantern - which is just here to counter fog. Disco zombie - this one’s fine it’s an actually a new threat. Also that mini endurian plant (I forgot the name) - this is a cool new plant but I don’t feel like starting over the game since it only seems to be in early levels for some reason. My main point is I feel like they should add more unique attackers or defensive plants and unique zombies to mix up the actually gameplay.

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

Lychee he's basically a aoe plant but too bad he sucks can't kill a brown coat all by himself

[@user-pt1re4qp1r]

Hey Creeps, love the video. I just wanted to ask if you could possibly try and subtitle your videos. You speak very quickly and have a tendency to slur your words and it makes it really hard to understand you sometimes. I say this as someone with good hearing who has no trouble understanding British accents as well, so I can only imagine how hard it would be for someone who speaks English as a second language and/or is hard of hearing. It would also be helpful if you tried to enunciate more, but I understand that's a lot of effort than just putting subtitles in, so no pressure there. Thanks for the content, have a good one!

[@BreadBreadBreaddd]

this games existence is a crime

[@PlatinumAltaria]

How hard is it to just release another PvZ? No one was even demanding changes, but naturally these people want to reinvent the wheel.

[@UlyssesK402]

22:55 *WHAT!?!?* Excuse me!? That game is incompatible! Why did they ripoff THAT of all games? What the *[aggressive honk],* Popcap! You too, EA!

[@theadhduck]

*[aggressive honk]*

[@mr_jimmmmmmm]

@@theadhduck Average duck noise

[@theadhduck]

@@mr_jimmmmmmm Lmao

[@meeaaddoorr]

funny because that game is a ripoff of a popcap game, bejeweled

[@UlyssesK402]

@@meeaaddoorr What goes around comes around, I guess.

[@rjweber7548]

They probably thought that pvz 2 was too easy now because of the plants that they added like the teleportato mine and porkra and also the leveling system but that didn't mean they had to make it this hard so they need to nerf it.

[@SJS146]

This is sick

[@ShockMicro]

Plants vs. Zombies 3 is annoying to me as it has the TINIEST glimmer of something I'd like, but it's just... not. If done right, a fully locked-and-loaded style of PvZ game could be quite fun, as long as you cool it with the powerup-centric design. Boss levels could let you pick any plant from the world you're in, while replaying a level lets you pick any plant to try and find alternate solutions! There's potential! If done not right... you get PvZ3 as it stands. Sigh.

[@timedeathe]

if they wanted a puzzle game then make an objective based pvz game and not this

[@aymangomaa3378]

if they gave us a game wwith the same art style and game mechanics as og pvz with just new plants zombiess and bosses id honestly appreciate it more

[@epicguygamer5571]

No joke I love this game to a certain extent as I loved the PvZ comics growing up and honestly still like’em today. I was actually begging them to add Nate and when I say him get added in my dopamine levels went through the roof.

[@stevesamuals2651]

Personally speaking, i think this game COULD have been good. The story is entertaining, the art style is well designed, and it had some cool level design mechanics like the rain tiles. But my word does the inability to select plants and bejeweled style puzzle progression make the game suffer

[@BlueyMushroom]

This might be unrelated, but I want to say that my PvZ3 Experience was probably one of the worst things I did, because I did it almost that non-stop, and after I reached level 146 (when there was 150 levels) I just dropped it, because not only I was tired, I felt just, empty, kinda burnouted by an extent... I can see some people enjoying this (even if a low amount) but I am not one of these, I forced myself to play it and the outcome was painful, so what I learned? Don't force yourself to do stuff, it will hurt more than not doing it... Also, I totally agree on PvZ3 not mattering, because, like you said, PvZ3 is just a bad game and it won't change what we (the community) did, and I guess the community will be kinda of the only thing keeping the franchise alive, I don't see a "big hit game" from pvz coming soon due to the current circumstances...

[@CrossfireCam-Aus]

I'm at Level 197 and have never used a power-up or booster (except for the threepeater event's bonuses). At least 10 levels have required more than a dozen tries to finish because of the zombie spam... I wouldn't mind the gameplay design if levels were longer, had more variety, and less unit spam.

[@TheWonderlandWitch]

I think the game is also trying to jump onto theory channels which have gotten really popular. It links with the comics and is clearly trying to get theorized about, which is free advertising for them.

[@smollmoth6376]

This is so disheartening. I know that popcap are not innocent and are probably the ones behind these decisions so too be honest i dont have much hope of seeing the franchise i love come back. I didn't even grow up on original pvz, i started with the garden warfare titles.

[@re4perthegamer]

PopCap no longer exists. I can state this confidently as I had the chance to visit their offices in Seattle. It is now an EA office and the only staff left there are legal and HR, the game developers long gone. (not by me btw)

[@smollmoth6376]

@@re4perthegamer is this a quotation?

[@HungryWarden]

@@smollmoth6376yes, a different commenter said this.

[@realleonardgibson]

Ok, i said it once and ill say it again: "Wait, you cant choose your plants?" R.I.P imitater

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

I think the replacement of imatater will be seedlings or the unused plant called sprout they're basically act like imataters but rng needed

[@realleonardgibson]

​@@user-ee3kr8et3x yeah, probably

[@kabobawsome]

I do think there is a single good change, the timer based waves. Gives the devs much more precise control over a level's function. They could make a level a chaotic scramble to get your defenses up, or a slow strategic crawl where you are constantly low on sun or having to deal with big waves with that time.

[@emojothejojo]

Helldivers 2 is shown in this video momentarily, and i was here for a pvz 3 review, and then my favourite game jumpscared me

[@Puff-Shroom]

PvZ 3 should not have existed,because PvZ 2 did NOT warrant a sequel and it was constantly getting updated(in minuscule ways,but I digress).I kinda thought they should make a spin-off of the tower defense games,but looking at PvZ 3…I am sad to report that I don’t know if it’s genuinely a good idea or not. This makes PvZ 2 look like how some people compare it to PvZ 1.Personally I think PvZ 2 offers a lot more and is a lot more enjoyable than PvZ 1’s very slow gameplay,but I like both,due to the flexibility of gameplay. You can use only instas or only Peashooters,Chompers,etc.etc. PvZ 3 lacking replay ability is not the main issue,the gameplay is just PvZ 2’s on steroids for the Zombies and the plants are tuned,at times, LOWER THAN IN PVZ 1,not a good sign AT ALL! I personally am not an expert and especially not a veteran at PvZ,in fact,I joined the community a mere 2 or 3 years ago.PvZ 3 is honestly so bad that I might honestly like gardenscapes more and I am not a match 3 player anymore.It’s not even laughable,it’s just sad to see a franchise that has died in a grave,due to bad decisions and lack of familiarity with the beginning of pvz. If you were to ask me the good PvZ games,I would say 1,2 and the shooters(BFN’s bad launch doesn’t make it unredeemable),Heroes is fine and so is 2C honestly.Everything else I couldn’t care less about. To sum up,PvZ 3 took PvZ 2’s perfectly fine formula and over tuned it.PvZ 2 is to me an improvement over the original in spite of the micro-transactions.The making of PvZ 3 was inherently dumb and the franchise is basically undead at this point.

[@mr.creeper6836]

The thing is, when only ONE game from a franchise's main series can be called good, it really puts the nail in the coffin for that franchise. And PvZ has more than just itself to carry, but also basically half of tower defence games. After flash games were taken down, only PvZ and BTD were the last successful tower defence games. And now with PvZ having fallen this low... it's looking pretty sad. Thankfully the latest generation of Bloons games has two solid games that are being updated regularly.

[@ArcanePower1]

Nah i did argue all 3 of them suck now. Pvz 1 and 2 are also spammed with ads and for pvz 1 old minigames are locked behind a paywall

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

​@@ArcanePower1 spammed with ads bro did you turn on your wifi?

[@blazie42069]

Don't worry we still have battle cats too

[@timedeathe]

You know it's funny that a game I've came up with that only would have 3 worlds with 50 levels on launch has 3x the amount of towers and enemies of pvz3. Starting out with a Goofy story Then bombarding you with mental health, depression, gender dysphoria and the ability to kill off characters and even the dog if you're that cruel of a person. A secret genocide run were your goal is to leave nothing behind including that dog. Maybe the player deserves to get there ass kicked by a boss for 4 hours straight. Actual strategy. Kinda funny how one person could not only think of this but also make it a reality potentially. Even more sad that 80 people worked on this dumpster fire.

[@re4perthegamer]

@@timedeathe soo... undertale pvz

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

Wait is there a new Eclise PvZ version? Did I miss PvZ 2 Eclise reborn release or smt?

[@caoinhnamkhanh2795]

one thing ill give the game credit for is the unique lawns. if only i could choose (or have more choices in) plants to work with what im given

[@_V.Va_]

I think the only thing I don't mind is the lack of Pick Your Seeds. I like being challenged by working with what I'm given. But everything else...? Could use work.

[@user-ee3kr8et3x]

Pre selected plants are good in pvz2 but the only difference is they never tested the levels pvz2 actually tested levels if its possible or not in pvz3 it feels like not

[@thatlazymaki9863]

So it’s plants versus zombies, but without the player creativity?

[@bellhop_phantom]

Goated taste in background music

[@raulzueiroADM]

Pvz 3 its definitely one of the games of all time

[@WhoamI-og7vl]

Pvz 3 is a game which features the best of the best in terms of being a game which has so much details as a game that is a game which is game thats exactly like no other game. Ah yes, one of the games of all time. I loved the part where pvz3 pvz'd its way out of becoming the game.

[@raulzueiroADM]

@@WhoamI-og7vl exactly

[@ayan8136]

​@@WhoamI-og7vlmorbius of pvz

[@raulzueiroADM]

@@ayan8136 that so accurate💀

[@steadfast1448]

they should remove the life system, but I doubt that will happen.

[@Darslan123]

the jump from pvz1 to pvz2 is so clean its literally more levels more plants more everything (unfortunately more grinding and ingame purchases) but imo if they added more levels that game would still be great but from pv2 to pvz3 is insane its just a whole new game just with the same characters (barely with the new designs) its honestly really sad this game couldve been insane and i hate that i have a iphone and hate pvz on pc so i cant really mod it or get pvzc or something

[@Omror1]

sorry, the entire budget went into "i have become hacked, destroyer of lawns"

[@Wailerman]

The original PvZ3 legit looked cool, I want to play that version instead

[@redbool1115]

No it didn’t. Every plant looked sleep deprived

[@JoseViktor4099]

Eh, I think your memory may Paint It better than It was. Every level locked by an stat powercreep, similar Wave progresion, no gimmicks, worse graphics... The only remarkable thing were being able to choose your plants and Taco Abilities, but those doesnt automatically made the game good, ironically Edit: (For the response of "but choosing the plants is the most important thing! Indeed. So what? The that doesn´t deny their big flaws at all)

[@CommentPositionInformer]

@@JoseViktor4099 "The only remarkable thing were being able to choose your plants" A.k.a the single most important mechanic in the entire series.

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@CommentPositionInformer Yeah, other games mechanics were important, thats why it was so criticised to begin with

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

​@@JoseViktor4099Don't forget about the boss fights and community nods to previous PvZ games...

[@autismandgaming4532]

We as a community should take back every negative thing we said about PvZ2

[@re4perthegamer]

reduce ads and make leveling up easier, and you got an amazing game

[@ryanrydzy4031]

You used deal em out. I love that song.

[@BuneKlune]

that ending was poetic

[@ihatepinecones99]

More mobile game slop.

[@Misanthrope0007]

The phrases: "I have becomed hacked, destroyer of lawns" and "Follow Mo's path of destruction", are the only good parts of this game. And Tugboat of course.

[@kabooki22]

Hype to see the update where they remove sunflowers!

[@sahidabutazil8892]

They already did back in pre alpha

[@ventriloquistmagician4735]

why did your voice change? Compare to your pvz3 video from over a year ago.

[@kamel9715]

Ok lets be real tho, the new sunflower design is friggin ADORABLE

[@no64256]

14:27 what's the game on display here?