An analysis of PVZ3's Soft-launch

[@SamenPvz]

Pvz3 has made me appreciate the original plants vs zombies a whole lot more.

[@CoralReaper707]

Same It also helped me appreciate pre arena pvz2 significantly more

[@Creeps20]

your not wrong

[@steadfast1448]

pvz3 makes the previous 2 games look like game of the year matireal

[@shiomaneki]

Honestly? Maybe that was even part of their plan.

[@Majin_Trunky]

Same but for PvZ 2 too

[@alexniccah]

I was out as soon as i saw "No choose your seeds." That's one of the most important parts of plants vs zombies.

[@wingdingfontbro]

Not just PvZ but tower defense games in general. Like literally every tower defense allows you to choose your defense in one way or another, never forcing you to have to use a specific set of towers, and when they do, like for example Emberward, which is also a rougelike, uses this to its advantage as it’s nature as a rougelike, randomly finding and accessing new types of towers as you go along. This does force you to have a specific tower lineup/deck/loadout/whatever you may call it, but that’s part of the charm, unlike here where the forced plants just take away any of the actual flavor the prior games had. On a seperate note, isn’t this similar to how bfn went down? The Garden Warfare games were prized for having a diverse selection of plants to choose from in the form of variants which had different primaries, extra abilities, health differences, ect and this was entirely removed when bfn came along. The same damned thing happened with this game, all variety and choice was completely removed, which was the ENTIRE REASON I loved all prior pvz games.

[@byeguyssry]

​@wingdingfontbro I don't think it's a necessity to be able to choose what you bring into a stage. I think that this in PvZ3 merely makes the powerups more blatant; since one of the parts that challenges your skill is removed, if you feel like you're already playing well, then it's obvious that you're being forced to use powerups rather than you just not choosing the right plants. I do also think it reduces the amount of people who would enjoy the game; I'm sure that people like you to enjoy the customization aspect wouldn't like it, but I do think many people could still enjoy a Tower Defense game that chooses your units for you, and would have a slightly different target audience.

[@bennyl9228]

99.9999999999999999999% of the game is about the plants and how you pick and use the plants. PVZ went from a strategy game about silly plants killing zombies to a game about grinding to get stupidly overpowered plants to a game about taking Gardenscapes and stuffing it in with a bit of horribly made PVZ-style gameplay.

[@alexniccah]

@@bennyl9228 the 0.0000000000000000001% is minigames, right?

[@maewschannel]

popcap trying to not change the formula for the 3rd part and ruining everything challenge (impossible 99.99% fail)

[@Gamesmarts194]

Not 5 minutes in and already what I hear that you CANNOT -Pick your plants -Pick which level you play -Control zombie waves -"Die" in more than 2 lanes TOTAL (instead of twice in a specific lane) -Play whenever you feel like it (due to needing lives) And yet somehow this game was still greenlit.

[@endermanowa]

It was greenlit because they saw how much money other trashy mobile games of this type earn It's only about money

[@The_hot_blue_fire_guy]

Of course it was green-lit. It’s a textbook mobile game model and apparently those generate a lot of money these days. You would be one of the dumbest companies on earth if you didn’t green-light a project like this. Remember that companies don’t give a shit about consumers as long as those consumers pay! If people buy/pay, the companies can care less if the game is actually fun or balanced.

[@khaorix2667]

PVZ 1 and 2 were also mobile games and made a ton of money though. This is just lazy.

[@The_hot_blue_fire_guy]

@@khaorix2667 PVZ1 was a payed game on PC before it got released on mobile and consoles. And PVZ2 was released at a time where mobile games weren’t nearly as greedy as they are today.

[@sibericusthefrosty9950]

I hope you guys are differentiating the crap games that PvZ3 based itself from from actual great games.

[@AveryLovesGlitchcore]

The absolute WHIPLASH of seeing the pvz3 animations compared to pvz2 animations-

[@ConsarnitTokkori]

3 feels over animated as h*ck especially with the imps and peashooters

[@doodlehates_uttp]

Am I the only one that noticed that when squash hits a waterbound zombie he just sort of slams into the water but doesn't make a splash

[@ghoulbuster1]

Souless corporate artstyle.

[@primalpeashooter]

i don't think its as bad as other people say but it definitely feels corporate

[@ba6tatz]

@@primalpeashooter isn't too bad in my opinion, but screams fanmade

[@liimelichen]

After playing reflourished, I realised how good pvz2 is. It's crazy how far they've fell from pvz1, and I'm thankful that the mod comunity is so active

[@LiterallyAlive]

Tugboat is actually the best and most original thing in whole PvZ 3

[@A_Surpluss_of_Stupidity]

Tugboat is from the comics so... he's not original

[@magicaiitem1845]

but... it's tugboat

[@raulzueiroADM]

@@A_Surpluss_of_Stupiditybut he still the goat

[@A_Surpluss_of_Stupidity]

@@raulzueiroADM true

[@miimiiandco]

​@raulzueiroADM he's the boat.

[@CoralReaper707]

I feel like pvz2's dip in quality could definitely warrant a video. Dear god, the animation and designs for modern pvz2 stuff are just...why.

[@steadfast1448]

Yeah. The new plants look like Chinese pvz2 plants now

[@CoralReaper707]

@steadfast1448 Not even. Cuz at least the Chinese plants can genuinely have some good-looking designs and solid animation.

[@steadfast1448]

@@CoralReaper707 The animation fell off after they added the blockoli or whatever its called

[@shiomaneki]

@@steadfast1448 that's an insult to the chinese cob cannon, the new plants just look ugly. Either that or the plant is fine but the animation is ugly.

[@manachromeYT]

@@shiomaneki sea shroom and guard shroom are improvements lets hope it contues that way

[@primalpeashooter]

How do you manage to combine the absolute worst level design of both pvz 1 and 2; the game somehow smashes together the most unfair and difficult level design of pvz2 and the most boring and easy level design of pvz 1 together into a single game. It's genuinely so bad that I can't even be that angry about it but rather so impressed.

[@JoseViktor4099]

I can imagine why; Because the devs has no idea of what does it make a PvZ game good (they changed devs three times for now) and they used the most superficial things for nostalgia bait, adding some trend elements, such as Clash Royale (2020 build) or GardenScapes. This result on a Franquestein monster which only pours inconsistency for all it sides.

[@LavelinaAli]

Comparison to reflourished mod it was actually possible to beat if you got the right plants

[@bluedragonsden7222]

Probably a mix of bad design and greed, likely the greed part, I don't think the people in charge actually care about making a good game/product at all

[@normalchannel2185]

@@bluedragonsden7222 Not bad design. Everything here was perfectly designed. But the aim was not to make a good game, or heck even to make it worth anything. The aim was the use an already established IP to print money, and they did a THOROUGH case study on ALL manipulative and predatory tactics Heck, this is a PERFECT case study for a predatory game(so good that someone can probably do a freaking Psych PhD on it)

[@aereonexapprentice7205]

​@@normalchannel2185Adding to this, it is exactly by design. Overly easy-braindead levels to not turn away the equally braindead whales or kids with their mother's credit card, and the impossibly hard pure-RNG late levels to, surprise surprise, force you to use and buy their "powerups". Oh and pure RNG to cut corners and save money by not designing actual levels.

[@devastatheseeker9967]

"you can't pick your seeds" There you go, dead on arrival

[@hadijahabutazil9132]

Not just that live system,dynamic difficultly,2 new world gimmicks that are obviously mediocre less worlds

[@JackEhttack]

PopCap no longer exists. I can state this confidently as I had the chance to visit their offices in Seattle. It is now an EA office and the only staff left there are legal and HR, the game developers long gone.

[@re4perthegamer]

as soon as I saw the bad parts of PVZ2 I knew this, it is still a good game because it was originally made by popcap, PVZ3 was not and is horrible

[@ReubensStuff]

popcap just works remotely now. quick question.. did they get rid of all the popcap and pvz stuff they had in-office?

[@loggerT123]

The thing is, their formula COULD have worked. Heck, reflourished has so many levels where you cant choose your own plants, yet they all feel fresh and unique. Why? Because each plant is carefully thought out to make the level as fun and exciting as possible. Pvz3, on the other hand, picks the same plants for like 30 levels.

[@endermanowa]

And that's because of how few plants there are in the game It's impossible to make unique lineups with only so many choices It feels like they only did bare minimum effort

[@youtube-kit9450]

From what I saw in the video, there just seems to be way too few plants and zombies alike to make interesting levels.

[@armoredman10]

13 plants

[@ignited_pea]

Hear me out, this game is the Megamind Vs The Doom Syndicate of PopCap

[@genarftheunfuni5227]

More like Kung Fu Panda 4, it's good but only when you isolate it from the other entries, comparing it to them makes it look a lot worse than it is from a surface level

[@N12015]

@@genarftheunfuni5227 I would say more like a Shrek the Third, a bad game specially compared to the other ones but not a complete disaster.

[@fortnitesexman]

@@N12015shrek the third is a cinematic disaster 💀

[@fortnitesexman]

@@genarftheunfuni5227really wouldn't compare it to KFP4 it's peak mediocrity, meanwhile pvz3 is actively a bad game

[@T3stmonk3y]

​@N12015 personally, the 4th shrek movie was my least favorite entry, but at least it had originality

[@drcgad3052]

Only good thing I can say about pvz3 is using elements from the comics……….. that’s about it

[@Koronofoxy]

It's reminds me of fnaf 9 ruin.

[@mydogghost]

The art style is neat

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Although Garden Warfare 2 does create reference to the Comic, especially with Breakfast Brains who's a nod of Dr. Zomboss' favorite snack, Pop Smarts... Plus Mr Stubbins mentioned at Battle for Neighbourville...

[@glitchking2801]

@@mydogghostya some things look a bit weird but all and all the art style makes the planet look cute

[@lovelysunny5753]

Yea

[@devilbowser253]

i will always say it, EA buying popcap was both the best and worst thing to happen to the studio, on one hand we probably wouldnt have gotten the garden warfare games, heroes and all of the fangames we have now if they hadnt bought popcap, on the other hand look at the official games now

[@superbrainz2357]

It's actually crazy how good the gw1 to heroes era of pvz was and it's a darn shame the gw games weren't bigger than they were thanks to having EA's name attached to them despite their quality, far worthier as tf2 inspired games than overwatch. Heck I'd even say heroes has my favorite art style for the 2d games. Crazy how much the series fell off after that with gw2 and pvz2 being hit the hardest by it as seen with the portal degradation and art style getting worse.

[@superbrainz2357]

@Azurethewolf168 The gw2 to bfn disaster happened a pve game they had cooking got canned. How does a franchise with such potential manage to take L after L but common garbage sweeps the market. It just isn't fair!

[@LavelinaAli]

​@Azurethewolf168 I like the new gameplay of that scrapped game like the idea of plants act as your companions and both have different abilities

[@SlavoidUkr]

There are fsn games???

[@NeoBing]

This is now your “Downfall of PvZ” video. Whether you choose to take that as a compliment or insult is up to you.

[@JoseViktor4099]

Idk, but I remember a video of that "PvZ Downfall " criticising PvZ2 and one of the claims were "the musicians also got worse, just compare *LoonBoon* to *Ancient Egypt* " (For context, Ancient Egypt is one of the few ost which were actually composed by Laura Shiginara, Pvz1 Composer)

[@GNVS300]

@@JoseViktor4099 The Beak, lol what a dipshit

[@THE_TRAPPYMAN]

Loonboon is for minigame while ancient egypt is for ambience and setting they should not have been compared if it was the music you hear during levels back then it wouldve maybe made sense

[@Megajaybreaker4]

@@JoseViktor4099the beak is who you’re thinking of. EVERYONE should hate that video.

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@THE_TRAPPYMAN Unfair and stupid comparison. Of course Braniac Maniac is gonna be far more memorable than Zen Garden.

[@AncientFire]

Pvz3 is two things: A human killing lawnmower, a destroyer of lawns, with a taste for blood. tugboat

[@Dexuz]

So basically Anakin or Heavy.

[@MyNaymIsSnek1526]

@@DexuzHeavy asss in Pootisss Man?

[@Super_EpicGuy]

4:25 The problem with this is that for the younger generations -the ones who have the short attention spans- the entire draw of Plans vs Zombies is building an unstoppable defense and watching it chew through any zombie that tries to face it, at least that's what drew me into the game as a kid. Dropping the core thing that casual players find most interesting means that there's gonna be little reason for casual players to want to play the game Edit: Shoulda expected Creeps to mention this later in the video but also I still want to point out that it's really dumb when game companies forcibly simplify a game series because they think that the newer generation has a "Shorter attention span" because it's always executed terribly

[@manachromeYT]

They actually don't we always had short attention span for survival. after all your dead meat in the wild when you can't identify a snake because of your long attention span. Its really just things going back to normal

[@chrisk6637]

​@@manachromeYTtf yoy yapping about?

[@N12015]

I HATE this line of thinking. Kids know less about stuff but are better at learning. I've seen literal prodigies win big tournaments despite being only kids, and happens quite often to the point you notice they don't need condescendency for them, just explain clear and simple how to play.

[@Zabe_B]

tbh i think that's just why they say they make games simpler and shorter. the truth is if they make games simpler and shorter they can save more money on their bottom line. mobile "games" are often not games at this point, but business investments for those that create or commission them.

[@mariustan9275]

@@manachromeYT That isn't short attention span. That would be survival instinct and quick decision making, not short attention span.

[@nathanblackburn1193]

The main issue with PVZ3 is simply the lack of variety, the "lawns" are varied but the plants and zombies get drip fed at a molasses rate, the plants are fixed per level too limiting creativity, there's no freedom or fun. (It's also just an obvious micro transaction cash grab)

[@TheBluehatPerson]

The fact that most of the gameplay core of PvZ3 is literally ripped from Gardenscapes including the similar power-up placements and event cycles is just... wow, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!!??? I'm just sad now. There really is nothing creative in PvZ 3 at all, why do they even think this was a good idea it's literally a mess, like everything is so disconnected. it almost makes me wish if they could restart again, but yeah... i don't think they can go back, they're not popcap.

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Yeah... It's kinda sad that instead of improving the Old PvZ3 (The 3D one) into better, but instead they scrapped everything of it then "reworked" into PvZ3 Welcome to Zomburbia... PvZ3 Welcome to Zomburbia didn't even feel like a sequel, it's more of a community reboot to the original series unlike Old PvZ3... Justice for Sawgrass and Skeleton Zombie!

[@JoseViktor4099]

4:39 Fun fact: This kinda also happened on the first PvZ2 versions and people complained a lot about it so it was quickly removed. How obvious that they aren't the same devs eh?

[@Theblindingofissac]

I’m just sad that they removed the PvZ hero’s zombies, that was at least cool to see, I had high expectations for this, but this is garbage, even compared to some Chinese versions, it’s sad to see the game descend to a “gardenscapes minigame” type thing

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Yeah, like I want to see all of the Zombie Heroes as bosses... Plus that one is probably an early sign that we probably might be able to deploy Plant Heroes on the field...

[@fortnitesexman]

surprised they didn't do it, it would've been so damn easy to rip off btd6's heroes lmao

[@superbrainz2357]

I honestly really loved how the original pvz3 acknowledged the spinoff and had some interesting ideas with them. Don't get me wrong as old pvz 3 was still meh but it genuinely had more unique ideas.

[@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917]

​@@TreverEver-bs9svi think there's Immorticia in one of the earliest Release of PvZ3

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

@@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917 Yeah, I'm actually know that along the codes involved with The Smash... But yeah so many missed opportunities... Plus Immorticia was returned at PvZ Match...

[@CubicDoggo]

i REALLY wish that they took more inspiration from games like Hay Day instead of Garden-scape. Since the story is all about 'rebuilding' suburbia, I think it would be way more fun if u could place things wherever you wanted on a block, making your own designs. Also, they could've implimented planting like they do in Hay Day, where u harvest Seed Packets to use in levels (having higher level plants take longer to grow, so u can't spam them) Like, if they're going to go the mobile game route, i would've thought it would fit MUCH BETTER and be MORE FUN, because then theres an actual game apart from just being a Visual Novel. It'd be like a reimagining of the Plant Food Minigame from PvZ2, where u can take care of plants to grow seed packets, and then be able to take them into levels.

[@thediabolicalraisin8953]

That's what they did with PVZ online

[@Knight9508]

Those features are literally like from pvz adventures

[@vradeus3438]

Monkey City but PvZ

[@glauberglousger956]

The first half of PVZ 2 was the peak of PVZ, with both 1 and 2 being rather similar and just good games, it's been almost a consistent line/spiral downwards from there

[@nikoskonstantinidis4069]

if only they lock the plants. after all at the midgame you have so many plant, that you can just stick into your same strategy than investing the new ones. seriously the last 3 worlds are just bad difficulty design.

[@legendsiscool]

pvz3 has less features then the first game, the shop doesnt exist, no zen garden, minigames were removed besides vase breaker (its too easy), no bosses, and no plant selection this game is the bare minimum

[@blakksheep736]

Somehow I think it's hearing there's only 13 plants _in the whole game_ that shook me. I'm pretty sure there's more plants than that in the first 2 worlds of pvz2.

[@crismon0726]

its still an early access so i didnt expect much

[@maglev0789]

Im going to take this opportunity to say that the first PvZ3 beta had some pretty cool specials that its a shame we're most certainly never going to see again. Justice for Zomblob.

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Same... Plus Old PvZ3 even brings back like a lot of community nods to the original games, like Immorticia and somehow The Smash according to its game file, bring back PvZ2 Zombies but making it still fitting to the present day (MC Zombie, Chicken Wrangler Zombie and Bikini Zombie as Sunbather Zombie), Miner Zombie from PvZ1. Plus they even nod the Gardern Warfare Series and Battle for Neighbourville. Don't forget they also included 5 Zombies' body structure base too (Normal, Imp, Obese, Bully and Gargantuar). I'm despite the ones who instantly create negative feedback without thinking what happened to PopCap and knowing the game's story... Plus justice for my favourite new Old PvZ3 plant and zombie, Sawgrass and Skeleton Zombie!

[@ba6tatz]

@@TreverEver-bs9sv tacos weren't a bad idea also

[@LucasDakami]

Best thing about PvZ3 is that Mo is canonically the Robot behind the Slaughter.

[@immtnnn]

W

[@MrcreeperDXD777]

⁠o o😊 o

[@chaosinc.382]

Behind the WHAT.

[@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672]

Purple mo

[@brayancastillo9560]

It's been so looong🎶

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

What's make worst about New PvZ3 is that it was a lack of nods from previous games, unlike Old PvZ3 who contained like a lot of references from their previous games, like it's the first time we seeing Immorticia debut at the mainline PvZ game but sadly all of that from Old PvZ3 was end up scrapped... 😢 Please come back, Sawgrass...

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Ps. Sure New PvZ3 game was the first time it's making nods to the Dark Horse Comic but with the cost of New PvZ3 act like a Community Reboot instead of an actual sequel...

[@lunathekuduruk1311]

They even added the zombot drone from gw1 which was only in that game and didnt even appear in gw2

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

@@lunathekuduruk1311 Plus Gravedigger Zombie who was a scrapped Zombie for Garden Warfare does appears in Old PvZ3 as the replacement version of Tomb Raiser Zombie but placing 2 or 3 random graved at the lawn...

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

@Azurethewolf168 Kinda sad all of them were retired or fired because of the things they were suffered from fans and the company...

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

@Azurethewolf168 Yeah... Felt like a community reboot... Even if The Grapes of Wrath was at New PvZ3...

[@gavinrosequist191]

It pains me to think we haven’t had a good PvZ game since GW2

[@NotAsItOnceWas]

14:45 as someone who is going through another Doom phase right now, "all the *good* Doom games" got me lmao

[@yams7355]

Have the modern doom games been getting hate lately?

[@aidanpalmer4720]

We don't talk about doom 3

[@dom20141]

@@yams7355 There's a bunch of people that can't stand the change. Kinda sad but whatever, people will hate anything

[@yams7355]

@@dom20141 to each their own for sure, but it makes more sense to say it's not for them than to say they're straight up bad. 2016 and Eternal have a lot of love put into them. If he originally meant Doom 3, though, maybe I can kinda get that...

[@dom20141]

@@yams7355 People are just really bad with change. There's an even more hateful community for the newer God of War games. I don't get it, but it is what it is.

[@ReubensStuff]

2:49 about this point, as someone who played old pvz3, in about late September 2020 it received its final update, version 20.0. This update seemed to improve a lot of smaller things about the game, and it also just looked a lot less soft-launchy than it did in lets say, March 2020. What happens literally 1 or 2 weeks later? They announce the game is shutting down in November. I have a feeling the game was meant to release in October, like PvZ heroes. Therefore, new pvz3 can ABSOLUTELY be cancelled at any time, considering for a soft launch old pvz3 did quite well for being in 1 or 2 regions, with 800,000 downloads. (Which new pvz3 has already surpassed, so there’s a fun fact).

[@manachromeYT]

​@Azurethewolf168 Because people went crazy about plant leveling being in the game and sent death threats for it.

[@manachromeYT]

@Azurethewolf168 that was 2019 sir. If you were a kid back in that date then why do you have a KZbin account? It's 13 and up.

[@manachromeYT]

@Azurethewolf168 I was talking about the original pvz3 which had plant leveling

[@SebastianFierro-z2x]

I hope pvz 3 gets cancelled, but how likely is that compared to the Old pvz3?

[@ReubensStuff]

@@SebastianFierro-z2x considering new pvz3 already has a million downloads, I wouldn’t say its completely likely but I guess it depends on whether the fans completely detest it and shit on it every minute or not.

[@glauberglousger956]

I really want to see how much further PVZ 4 could be simplified No animations, pixelated low quality child drawings, no writing or dialogue at all apart from on-liners from Dave and Zomboss for... Reasons All the microtransactions and ads possible, covering up parts of the screen and sabotaging your gameplay, of course you can pay to get rid of them temporarily

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Every level costs 0.99c but they're all exactly the same, reinventing the arcade machine.

[@anmspafan7855]

Sun must be gained from the PVZ 1 slot machine minigame, but it costs real money to spin

[@jasonchiu272]

Plants that were originally free in the earlier games now have this "limited trial" where you can use them for a short period of time but then need to do something (like pay money) to temporarily get them.

[@Scigam243]

pvz 5 is just a black screen no code no visuals

[@TiredAkami]

The one thing I strangely love about pvz3 is the art style of plants, but that’s about where the upsides end.

[@nickk3077]

I used to hate the power up system in PvZ2, but after playing a lot more PvZ2 as of lately and watching Wolfy's playthrough of the game, I realize it's actually not that bad. Although it basically helps you win or get through a tough section, it firstly helps players that are struggling through the game because PvZ2 is definitely much hard than PvZ1. Secondly, yes, it does costs coins, which are a limited resource, but the silver lining with that is that it turns power ups into a last resort in which you only use them if you believe you can't use any further skill to get past this point. The are a few different ways of getting coins, so it's not as if you are forced to spend real life money. They are basically an inoffensive accessibility option and I appreciate that. Everyone remembers how bad going into Big Wave Beach day 16 was, so the fact that you can beat the level with help from power ups makes the level much more tolerable. (So, I actually am not a big fan when mods remove them because some mods are just much harder.) Now, comparatively, the way PvZ3 handles its power up system is much more offensive. PvZ3 is just simply a lot harder. The game limits your options, so if you aren't good with a certain setup, then it's just too bad for you. The power ups, which are supposed to be this accessibility option, are now scarcer in this game when the game should make them easier to obtain because of the increased difficulty. It's just another way that this game is objectively less fun to play than its predecessors. I think the worst part is that they advertise these power ups to you for real life cash way more than in PvZ2. It just makes this system come off as the game being really greedy for your money.

[@nickk3077]

I actually commonly hate it when I see these accessibility options in some video game. Like, every Mario game nowadays for example has this when that was never a feature in earlier Mario games, while the subsequent games just become easier. It's fine for little 5-year-olds but alienates anyone who's liked playing those games since they were much younger. Like, I think that PvZ2 making you pay a small fee for its power ups makes them feel a lot more cleaver than an instant win button for accessibility.

[@LUCAS420BLZ]

Plant food is basically a cheap way to win in pvz2 but we never think of it that way because it's freely given Its only when it's pay walled we think it's up to no good And we also do get power ups for free And they do help get past horribly designed levels whenever they're available

[@Suchti0352]

The biggest thing I miss from the original pvz3 is the taco time and most importantly the tacobilities that came with it.

[@RuoShiLi]

comparing Pvz3 to the rest of the franchise is like comparing a wothless money-designed cash grab of a dumpster fire to some games that sereved as the childhood of many... Oh wait, *IT IS*

[@pyropian8640]

Tugboat has TF2 level of character design

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Probably because he's the original Browncoat Zombie himself who volunteered as a part of cloning at the Zombie Maker Machine for Zomboss...

[@thatsaltypeashooter]

Actually, Tugboat was originally designed by the author of the PvZ Comics, Paul Tobin. So, he's the one who actually designed Tugboat. This game is heavily based on the comics. With Patrick Blazing, Tugboat, and the Gumball Machine Powerup being a character from one of the comics (The circus one).

[@handlessuckdick]

Based comment.

[@DJ_Wolfy5]

PvZ3 hands out infinity brains like candy. I constantly find myself having multiple hours of infinity brains after playing for less than 30 mins. Has anyone actually ran out of lives?

[@Arcana_zero_studios]

I feel like mobile games need to stop being games made for phones, and more like games that are just on phones. No 'log-in bonuses', life systems need to be relegated to platformers, either pay to play or keep the microtransactions to simple cosmetics that are well thought out and not color pallette and pattern swaps. A good game is something you can enjoy, either as a means of unwinding or challenging yourself with difficulty options and extra challenges. Replayability and Story are related, but shouldn't have to suffer at the other's expense, Devil May Cry can do this, so why does it feel like almost no one else can casually do this? Every other game has added difficulty and fan made challenges, which yeah DMC also has this but it also has more beyond that. You get the need to improve, the sense of progress is in narrative and your preformance in gameplay.

[@sibericusthefrosty9950]

You sir actually put it well. Don't try copying "those games," and instead make a great game that just so happen to be mobile only. As mobile is just a medium for games, like PC and console. And games like that already exist, you just need to look harder.

[@td-3d172]

It's sad to knowing that this could be the final pvz game.

[@WarFoxThunder]

Ikr...

[@chrisblanco9036]

After reading your comment, my mind immediately said that quote from this one guy, “My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.”

[@re4perthegamer]

it sad you know, I played a pvz demo (only the first 6 levels on loop) over and over and still found it fun, no ads, no microtransactions. i was 3-5 at the time

[@Jar3xe]

Then there's Zombies Match

[@HungryWarden]

This franchise could’ve been so creative.

[@RGC_animation]

They were so focused on drawing out every last penny out of you, that they forgot the most important part, making the game fun, or even just fun enough to be addictive. No amount of predatory design choice will make people spend money if they aren't invested enough to spend money in the first place.

[@underrated1524]

What EA/Popcap is doing here is liquidating pre-existing investment in the PVZ franchise. The lifecycle of all good brands is to start out with extremely high-quality soup to attract customers, then water down the soup bit by bit until the customers are all gone, then repeat with a new brand identity. PVZ appears to be in the end stages of this lifecycle.

[@manachromeYT]

​@@underrated15242026 new tower defense game that's not pvz 2 with a different paint

[@jossuecabrera8611]

I thought the original, first softlaunch for ovz3 was kinda bad. Now I really want that version of the game back. At least it has an elemental system, amd upgrading system and more unique plants, maps and zombies

[@TreverEver-bs9sv]

Don't forget boss fights and community nods to previous PvZ games...

[@velvetdraws3452]

"perhaps i judged you too harshly"

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

Yep, and conditions to upgrade certain plant above certain level for beginning the floor... which were added with the same update as elemental system.

[@jossuecabrera8611]

@@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer exactly. Upgrades would have fit very well with pvz since upgrades are an essential part to most tower defense games. I would imagine a smaller seed selection, but that would be to incorporate upgrades to plants. Like, remove repeater and fire peashooter from the game and make them upgrades for the peashooter. You see? Already that's a good pvz concept

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

@@jossuecabrera8611 I meant the level cups to levels, not the upgrades for plants.

[@hedgehoggaming50]

Before the video an ad to Disney+ played and that classic epic intro theme fit this perfectly

[@Czar_Moss]

24:50 I'm sorry but that all feels incredibly unfair. claiming PVZ3 copied that game and used "being in a garden" as reasoning is clearly a bad piece of evidence. Bombs, row clears, etc. are also 1) very basic concepts and/or 2) have existed in older games. garden scape doesn't own the concept of a bomb

[@uuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh]

we need zackscott appreciation day for archiving literally all of pvz

[@RidiculousTies]

14:30 CASETTE BEASTS REFERENCE HUGE

[@wren441]

RAAAAHHH CASSETTE BEASTS!! WHERE IS MY MULTIPLAYER UPDATE

[@squiddu]

the more people talk about games made with Godot I smile a lot

[@thelifeless125]

basically "this game is so bad I'm not even gonna shit on it"

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

Basically "it's not even a game".

[@nikoskonstantinidis4069]

they don't even care enough, to hate it

[@sicklysweetdenouement]

I read almost all of the PvZ comics and I just gotta say. I would much rather just reread those than play this.

[@q_0191]

quick questions: is the game similar to the comics? are the comics "good"? was mo in the comics? if mo was did they also kill the younglings in the comics?

[@LavelinaAli]

​@@q_0191 Patrick was badass in the comics Crazy Dave is on some crazy random adventures and stuff Tugboat has 2 bros Dr zomboss:pathetic loser

[@sicklysweetdenouement]

@@q_0191 I read them a good 7 years ago, but I'll awnser what I can off memory. The comics act roughly similar to how Garden Warfare was situated. Nate and Penny act as a single protagonist, effectively taking the role of player. Crazy Dave occasionally did stuff too. "Good" is subjective obviously, and I was young when I read em. But as far as I can remember, pacing was great and each comic told a unique and entertaining story. And no, Mo never showed up.

[@q_0191]

@@sicklysweetdenouement awwww, but thank you for the info!

[@jacksongreen4107]

Can I just say that the background music choices are on point? Gotta love Undertale Yellow music.

[@_Ex1led_]

imagine if pvz modders made their own pvz 3, that’d be pretty nice

[@LavelinaAli]

I've heard they banned mods in pvz3 because they maybe aware of "competition"

[@m4rcyonstation93]

Altverz, reflourished, eclise, requiem, spice, quasar

[@_Ex1led_]

@@m4rcyonstation93 I used to play mods but bluestacks took up too much of my storage so now I just play my old vanilla save on mobile ;-;

[@aruce9]

Ah I love sunk cost fallacy

[@RandomDude1487]

I feel like we should stay with the older games, because EA is quickly making the series die like they want to kill it off to make room for a new cash grab series.

[@endermanowa]

They don't want to make a new series, that'd take some creativity and effort to develop They want to milk what they already have

[@RandomDude1487]

@@endermanowa nah they’d blatantly steal all code from subway surfers and put the sims characters over everything so it looks original

[@bbboi9127]

I feel like the gameplay itself is fine in pvz3. What drags the game down is the lack of content in the gameplay that makes it get stale quick. I don’t feel like updates have helped either. So far they added Sunshroom - which is just better sun producer. The rock and roll imp - basically just a slightly bulkier imp. Plantern - which is just here to counter fog. Disco zombie - this one’s fine it’s an actually a new threat. Also that mini endurian plant (I forgot the name) - this is a cool new plant but I don’t feel like starting over the game since it only seems to be in early levels for some reason. My main point is I feel like they should add more unique attackers or defensive plants and unique zombies to mix up the actually gameplay.

[@LavelinaAli]

Lychee he's basically a aoe plant but too bad he sucks can't kill a brown coat all by himself

[@hiwka0w575]

Adding "Welcome to Zomburbia" into the title is a nice improvement already Now remove "3" from the title and we're good

[@thescaryscream5963]

I believe i kinda get where you're going. So basically just make it a spin-off kinda game, like the heroes game, and not a official third part. If that's what you meant, i totally agree.

[@UlyssesK402]

22:55 *WHAT!?!?* Excuse me!? That game is incompatible! Why did they ripoff THAT of all games? What the *[aggressive honk],* Popcap! You too, EA!

[@theadhduck]

*[aggressive honk]*

[@mr_jimmmmmmm]

@@theadhduck Average duck noise

[@theadhduck]

@@mr_jimmmmmmm Lmao

[@meeaaddoorr]

funny because that game is a ripoff of a popcap game, bejeweled

[@UlyssesK402]

@@meeaaddoorr What goes around comes around, I guess.

[@CrossfireCam-Aus]

I'm at Level 197 and have never used a power-up or booster (except for the threepeater event's bonuses). At least 10 levels have required more than a dozen tries to finish because of the zombie spam... I wouldn't mind the gameplay design if levels were longer, had more variety, and less unit spam.

[@BlueyMushroom]

This might be unrelated, but I want to say that my PvZ3 Experience was probably one of the worst things I did, because I did it almost that non-stop, and after I reached level 146 (when there was 150 levels) I just dropped it, because not only I was tired, I felt just, empty, kinda burnouted by an extent... I can see some people enjoying this (even if a low amount) but I am not one of these, I forced myself to play it and the outcome was painful, so what I learned? Don't force yourself to do stuff, it will hurt more than not doing it... Also, I totally agree on PvZ3 not mattering, because, like you said, PvZ3 is just a bad game and it won't change what we (the community) did, and I guess the community will be kinda of the only thing keeping the franchise alive, I don't see a "big hit game" from pvz coming soon due to the current circumstances...

[@rlcraftisharder4036]

Literally the only person I know that even enjoys this is Zebra Gamer

[@kindwolf7700]

What is Zebra Gamer smoking to think that this game is good?!

[@cybervirus2029]

I had the idea of wanting to make a pvz fan game balanced around fighting against a horde of zombies, like left4dead 2 or World War Z Levels of zombies.

[@epicguygamer5571]

No joke I love this game to a certain extent as I loved the PvZ comics growing up and honestly still like’em today. I was actually begging them to add Nate and when I say him get added in my dopamine levels went through the roof.

[@andistansbury4366]

There's also the fact THAT THEY JUST TURNED IT INTO EPHING HOMESCAPES

[@rjweber7548]

They probably thought that pvz 2 was too easy now because of the plants that they added like the teleportato mine and porkra and also the leveling system but that didn't mean they had to make it this hard so they need to nerf it.

[@smollmoth6376]

This is so disheartening. I know that popcap are not innocent and are probably the ones behind these decisions so too be honest i dont have much hope of seeing the franchise i love come back. I didn't even grow up on original pvz, i started with the garden warfare titles.

[@re4perthegamer]

PopCap no longer exists. I can state this confidently as I had the chance to visit their offices in Seattle. It is now an EA office and the only staff left there are legal and HR, the game developers long gone. (not by me btw)

[@smollmoth6376]

@@re4perthegamer is this a quotation?

[@HungryWarden]

@@smollmoth6376yes, a different commenter said this.

[@knuxchux]

I really hope this terrible game makes people revisit PvZ2 and see it as more than a soulless cash grab. That has thought put into it; this doesn’t. I wish the IP was in public domain so the fans could make a REAL sequel.

[@MountainMemelord]

Damn you, Disney...

[@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer]

PvZ 2 was released in 2013. Of course, it's not soulless.

[@aymangomaa3378]

if they gave us a game wwith the same art style and game mechanics as og pvz with just new plants zombiess and bosses id honestly appreciate it more

[@buhguh-r8g]

Hey Creeps, love the video. I just wanted to ask if you could possibly try and subtitle your videos. You speak very quickly and have a tendency to slur your words and it makes it really hard to understand you sometimes. I say this as someone with good hearing who has no trouble understanding British accents as well, so I can only imagine how hard it would be for someone who speaks English as a second language and/or is hard of hearing. It would also be helpful if you tried to enunciate more, but I understand that's a lot of effort than just putting subtitles in, so no pressure there. Thanks for the content, have a good one!

[@tamas21145]

Fearlessness Excellence Intuition Sneakiness Toughness Youthfulness Justice (the J is silent)

[@prof.laytonfan764]

A shame really. The early PVZ 3 beta had some neat ideas, but terrible gameplay. It baffles me that EA saw the failure of the beta and thought that taking out the more creative ideas was the solution. Now the game is just boring with terrible gameplay,

[@Zabe_B]

tbh i think the execs want the terrible gameplay because it makes it easier to push microtransactions. like, how many mobile games would be massively improved if they just got rid of the time gates, lives, limited currency, etc? but of course they will never get rid of those things because it's what makes the mobile market so incredibly profitable. as was said in the video, the levels are designed around the powerups, because you're supposed to buy them so you can keep playing and don't run out of lives. and keep buying them, until EA has squeezed every last cent out of you that they can get. they're relying on the pvz brand recognition to get people to download and hopefully be suckered into giving them money. sorry to be so cynical, but the fact is that most mobile "games" nowadays are really just business investments for those that create or commission them, so a lot of the "game design" involves creating FOMO and tricking players into thinking they'll have more fun if they give you money

[@nyukjustacommenter857]

One thing the game did give us was Creeps losing his mind on stream over Mo's Purple Guy arc

[@mr.creeper6836]

The thing is, when only ONE game from a franchise's main series can be called good, it really puts the nail in the coffin for that franchise. And PvZ has more than just itself to carry, but also basically half of tower defence games. After flash games were taken down, only PvZ and BTD were the last successful tower defence games. And now with PvZ having fallen this low... it's looking pretty sad. Thankfully the latest generation of Bloons games has two solid games that are being updated regularly.

[@ArcanePower1]

Nah i did argue all 3 of them suck now. Pvz 1 and 2 are also spammed with ads and for pvz 1 old minigames are locked behind a paywall

[@LavelinaAli]

​@@ArcanePower1 spammed with ads bro did you turn on your wifi?

[@blazie42069]

Don't worry we still have battle cats too

[@manachromeYT]

You know it's funny that a game I've came up with that only would have 3 worlds with 50 levels on launch has 3x the amount of towers and enemies of pvz3. Starting out with a Goofy story Then bombarding you with mental health, depression, gender dysphoria and the ability to kill off characters and even the dog if you're that cruel of a person. A secret genocide run were your goal is to leave nothing behind including that dog. Maybe the player deserves to get there ass kicked by a boss for 4 hours straight. Actual strategy. Kinda funny how one person could not only think of this but also make it a reality potentially. Even more sad that 80 people worked on this dumpster fire.

[@re4perthegamer]

@@manachromeYT soo... undertale pvz

[@probablyjinxed]

the suns not being in multiples is such a small change yet still pisses me off, idk why!

[@camwoodstock]

it's called PvZ3 because they made it 3--no, 4--no, 5 times

[@hadijahabutazil9132]

More like they should call it adventures 2 since adventures also had limited plants

[@Over0w0MeAmTheHotel]

If PvZ pretended to be Gardenscapes, this is what you’d get.

[@ShockMicro]

Plants vs. Zombies 3 is annoying to me as it has the TINIEST glimmer of something I'd like, but it's just... not. If done right, a fully locked-and-loaded style of PvZ game could be quite fun, as long as you cool it with the powerup-centric design. Boss levels could let you pick any plant from the world you're in, while replaying a level lets you pick any plant to try and find alternate solutions! There's potential! If done not right... you get PvZ3 as it stands. Sigh.

[@justanothergamer64]

Ok i think theres a way to make this game better: - add plant and level picking - remove the lives - base the story on levels beat, not on "taco tickets" gained - return plant food please (or at leady add a better ability than grapes of wrath) - *MORE PLANTS* - dont let EA make your game Honestly im fine with the artstyle, simplified sun counter, and i actually kinda like the references to the comic, but i just.. i hate EA and what its done to one of my favorite franchises.

[@_V.Va_]

I think the only thing I don't mind is the lack of Pick Your Seeds. I like being challenged by working with what I'm given. But everything else...? Could use work.

[@LavelinaAli]

Pre selected plants are good in pvz2 but the only difference is they never tested the levels pvz2 actually tested levels if its possible or not in pvz3 it feels like not

[@GeepGorp69]

i just like how the sunflowers giggle. they have always been my favorite plant

[@Puff-Shroom]

PvZ 3 should not have existed,because PvZ 2 did NOT warrant a sequel and it was constantly getting updated(in minuscule ways,but I digress).I kinda thought they should make a spin-off of the tower defense games,but looking at PvZ 3…I am sad to report that I don’t know if it’s genuinely a good idea or not. This makes PvZ 2 look like how some people compare it to PvZ 1.Personally I think PvZ 2 offers a lot more and is a lot more enjoyable than PvZ 1’s very slow gameplay,but I like both,due to the flexibility of gameplay. You can use only instas or only Peashooters,Chompers,etc.etc. PvZ 3 lacking replay ability is not the main issue,the gameplay is just PvZ 2’s on steroids for the Zombies and the plants are tuned,at times, LOWER THAN IN PVZ 1,not a good sign AT ALL! I personally am not an expert and especially not a veteran at PvZ,in fact,I joined the community a mere 2 or 3 years ago.PvZ 3 is honestly so bad that I might honestly like gardenscapes more and I am not a match 3 player anymore.It’s not even laughable,it’s just sad to see a franchise that has died in a grave,due to bad decisions and lack of familiarity with the beginning of pvz. If you were to ask me the good PvZ games,I would say 1,2 and the shooters(BFN’s bad launch doesn’t make it unredeemable),Heroes is fine and so is 2C honestly.Everything else I couldn’t care less about. To sum up,PvZ 3 took PvZ 2’s perfectly fine formula and over tuned it.PvZ 2 is to me an improvement over the original in spite of the micro-transactions.The making of PvZ 3 was inherently dumb and the franchise is basically undead at this point.

[@TheWonderlandWitch]

I think the game is also trying to jump onto theory channels which have gotten really popular. It links with the comics and is clearly trying to get theorized about, which is free advertising for them.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

How hard is it to just release another PvZ? No one was even demanding changes, but naturally these people want to reinvent the wheel.

[@cannon9009]

PvZ3 is basically what happens when you look at Candy Crush or Gardenscapes/MatchingtonMansion and its reliance on Powerups and think "Hey, my game series could use that!". Spoiler: It shouldn't.

[@stevesamuals2651]

Personally speaking, i think this game COULD have been good. The story is entertaining, the art style is well designed, and it had some cool level design mechanics like the rain tiles. But my word does the inability to select plants and bejeweled style puzzle progression make the game suffer

[@pining_tree6788]

The problem with match 3 being such an inspiration for this pvz3 is that at least in match 3 games, even if they are designed to have less turns than is on average needed to beat a level, because of the randomness inherit in the dropping of what to match, there’s always the chance of getting lucky enough to get what you need to win. In this, they’ve just built a strategy game where you are not allowed to strategize, and can’t even rely on luck to win because it’s so strategy based. There is no illusion of victory even

[@superoriginalusername.]

Something about Dave in this game bothers me, hes missing that absent-minded charm his sprites in 1 and 2. Also, the combination of this games art style and dialogue makes it hard to remember that Patrice is supposed to be way younger than him lol

[@Omror1]

sorry, the entire budget went into "i have become hacked, destroyer of lawns"

[@realleonardgibson]

Ok, i said it once and ill say it again: "Wait, you cant choose your plants?" R.I.P imitater

[@LavelinaAli]

I think the replacement of imatater will be seedlings or the unused plant called sprout they're basically act like imataters but rng needed

[@realleonardgibson]

​@@LavelinaAli yeah, probably

[@SourBoy]

"Choose your seeds is gone" Man, it's such a shame PvZ only had two game entries, it would have been neat if they tried to make a third game but they never did. There was never a third game, they never even tried, what a shame

[@manachromeYT]

if they wanted a puzzle game then make an objective based pvz game and not this

[@chickencurry420]

It feels like this entire game was designed as "Let's take everything that makes Plants vs Zombies so good, and remove every last bit of player agency. Then design the levels to be impossible to complete unless they buy our powerups."

[@hollowknightenjoyer]

I mean thats what they did with pvz2 with the last part

[@BlaketheBlock]

pvz1 is a timeless classic. pvz2 is really really good and inspired, only bogged down by greedy higher ups pvz3 is literally corporate trash

[@shadedway5277]

Oh my gosh, I had been wondering what the pun name for the missile launching bamboo was going to be The game might be awful, but the name "Bamboo Shoot" got me a smile

[@Berryyyyyjam]

this games existence is a crime

[@thefalling4499]

when the game is so bad so dead so used up, that the community just stops caring about that new game because no matter what they know it will be bad it's truly sad. i think all we wanted was pvz 1 with more plants and zombies.

[@FireBoy-nc1bz]

Pvz 3 makes Pvz 2 look like the best game ever.

[@Oswerb]

What's tragic about box 3 is that it takes more ideas from garndenscrapes than it does from the source matierial.

[@SJS146]

This is sick

[@marxunemiku]

one of the only redeeming qualities of the artstyle is the lil peashooters are so cute 😭

[@thatlazymaki9863]

So it’s plants versus zombies, but without the player creativity?

[@ceddavis7441]

no leveling :D no pick your plants :( power up centric design >:( if anyone is wondering why pick your plant isn't an immediate turn off for me, play hacker vs hacker. it uses a strategic placement of certain towers to try and make you think.

[@someguy3267]

Man... Yeah that's all I have to say about PvZ3, this shit isn't worth crying over, especially since mods have replaced the mainline games, so yeah, Man...

[@LavelinaAli]

Its sad that the modding community are taking over games and does a better job than them

[@kabobawsome]

I do think there is a single good change, the timer based waves. Gives the devs much more precise control over a level's function. They could make a level a chaotic scramble to get your defenses up, or a slow strategic crawl where you are constantly low on sun or having to deal with big waves with that time.