An Autopsy of the most Outlandish fight in Baldur's Gate 3

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Ellie Rasmussen

Ellie Rasmussen

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 392
@eriks_trip
@eriks_trip Ай бұрын
I actually took the opposite meaning of what you took from the interactions with Raphael: this devil CANNOT be trusted. The advice he gives you about Yurgir is something along the lines of “he’s too dangerous to be allowed to live, attack first, kill him fast, don’t let your guard down.” What happens if you talk to him? You find out he’s in a bad contract and doomed to remain in this temple forever. Using cunning, you can trick him into killing his minions and himself, help him break his contract, or you can just fight him if you fail. Outright fighting or ambushing him was to me the obvious bad solution, since it involved doing exactly what Raphael, an untrustworthy devil, tells you to do. All this to say, getting blown to bits by explosives in an ambush is the price you pay for heeding the words of a devil.
@cmckee42
@cmckee42 Ай бұрын
And if you help Yurgir out, he returns the favor later.
@Lodov
@Lodov Ай бұрын
then they should have not made the encounter look like an ambush. If you scout ahead and see how they are positioned why would your character, roleplaying wise, walk in the centre of a trap?
@eriks_trip
@eriks_trip Ай бұрын
@@Lodov ...but it is an ambush? That's the whole point of the encounter. You have to choose if you want the chance to talk or a tactical advantage in battle. If you have any inclination Raphael is lying and possess at least one silver-tongued companion, you can walk into the ambush and hope to strike a deal. Or you can do what Raphael says and ambush the ambusher, losing your opportunity to talk it out. You also don't need to send your entire squad into the ambush -- just send one high-CHA party member in to negotiate, and if it goes bad, strike from an ambush of your own on the high ground where they are. DnD is not a game of binary "do this only or do that only" choices, you can arrange contingencies and have a plan in the event someone rolls poorly or you make bad choices.
@Lodov
@Lodov Ай бұрын
@@eriks_trip I tend to roleplay while I play an rpg (both ttrpg and crpg)... why would any sane person walk in the centre of an enemy potential ambush? That's a quick way to lose a character
@eriks_trip
@eriks_trip Ай бұрын
@@Lodov A cocky PC walking into an ambush confidant they can talk their way out is 100% roleplaying. Seen it before in tabletop, did it all the time in my first playthrough of BG3. It is not more or less valid roleplaying than the style you are describing. Also, death is pretty cheap in BG3 between Withers and scrolls/spells of Revivify, so risking death really isn't as risky as you're making it out to be, even in a super casual playthrough.
@MomoPrior
@MomoPrior 8 ай бұрын
I love love love the recurring bit of "But in order to know for sure someone would have to do this incredibly tedious and unrewarding manual thing. Shame.." .. "Anyway I did the thing and here's what I found"
@Warrigt
@Warrigt 2 ай бұрын
"By the miracle of buying two of them"
@coreyrigney1424
@coreyrigney1424 Жыл бұрын
Look out! The digital void is screaming back!
@EllieRasmussen
@EllieRasmussen Жыл бұрын
ok first of all how dare you
@papierowyszczur9234
@papierowyszczur9234 Ай бұрын
In D&D itself, there is also a crucial detail: While intelligence and charisma saving throws are the rarest, they're also the worst to fail, because more often than not, the failure takes you out of the fight, if not the game. Intelligence saving throws: Usually the character suffers a massive debuff, or loses ability to act. Worst spell to be hit with is feeblemind, because it reduces intelligence and charisma of the target to 1 (-5 modifier to rolls) and takes away the ability both to fight for spellcasters, and to roleplay for everyone (sapient creatures have intelligence of at least 5). Charisma saving throws: Character is either possessed (and either looses agency, or the player has to act against the party), or moved into another plane of existence. Banishment does it temporarily for most of the time, but plane shift basically teleports the character out of the game.
@sephikong8323
@sephikong8323 Ай бұрын
That's one thing I wanted to add. The three "weak" Saving Throws tend to be tied to really debilitating effects the few times they are actually used (even Strength, which is by far the worst Saving Throw Proficiency to have, still has some really debilitating conditions associated with it, like the Shadow's Drain ability). Also, the game by its setting makes Int genuinely a lot more useful than it otherwise is since it's so focused on Mindflayers who are easily the biggest reason to NOT dump Intelligence. Thank God Intellect Devourers are heavily nerfed in game or the encounter with them on the beach would deadass wipe out a lot of playthrough right out of the gate). Intelligence is a much more consistent option in the game than in Tabletop because of it. Charisma is particularly weak though due to the extreme lack of any enemy making use of the powerful spells that target it, but I think it's to compensate how good it is for ability checks
@eligah1843
@eligah1843 Ай бұрын
I got hit by maze in a boss fight. I did not have high intelligence
@dezzyboots1323
@dezzyboots1323 Ай бұрын
I'd be pretty mad if I picked the worst way to do this combat and didn't explore any other options to resolving this quest
@caldw615
@caldw615 Ай бұрын
We did that on our first playthrough. We tried to sneak attack the displacer beast because I was a rogue who liked sneaking things to get a surprise situation. It locked us out of talking to Yurgir unless we loaded a much much earlier save.
@fluxk7506
@fluxk7506 Ай бұрын
I tired doing a different way, it failed, I was forced to fight him.
@riggsy2227
@riggsy2227 Ай бұрын
i was literally able to talk to him and get him to order hos bodyguards to kill each other then he shot his cat and himself... no fight required haha
@jakubszczesnowicz3201
@jakubszczesnowicz3201 Ай бұрын
All i did to overcome his +8 initiative is pretend I will side with him, have him come down to where I was, then sneak attack him with my rogue, boom, everyone was surprised, I killed him in one character rotation and the rest of the fight was easy
@timothymclean
@timothymclean 2 ай бұрын
13:35: Not surprising. D&D only had three saving throws until 5e, and while 5e gave each ability score a different save, it mostly kept the Fortitude/Reflex/Will distribution, but with a some Will saves redistributed to Int/Cha and a few Fortitude saves redistributed to Str. It then gave each class proficiency in one "good" and one "useless" saving throw, marking that as an Intentional Game Design Decision and not the half-holdover that it actually is. At the tabletop, targeting weak saving throws is further complicated by the fact that players aren't supposed to know monster stats. They can make an educated guess that the drow witch has good mental saves but weak Con/Str saves, or that her troll thrall is probably weak-willed (um, weak-Wisdomed), but lots of monsters don't make it so easy to guess a weakness. And some monsters just don't have a weak saving throw. Saving throws are not Pokémon types; they aren't a vector the game designers use to build in a weakness. In fact, most D&D monsters don't really have a specific weakness. Trolls can't regenerate from fire and vampires are vulnerable to Radiant damage, but they're exceptions to the rule. Which is absolutely a criticism to make of D&D, but it's a bit broader than spell saving throws.
@FurTheWorkers
@FurTheWorkers 2 ай бұрын
Personally I think a way to resolve this would be if saving throws used the better of a particular set of ability scores (so the better of Intelligence and Wisdom, etc.) or were completely detached from your ability score entirely
@INTCUWUSIUA
@INTCUWUSIUA 2 ай бұрын
Honestly 4e handles saves a lot more intelligently than 5e. For starters they weren't saves, they were defensive stats like Armor Class is. It's a small change but it means that the attacker is always the one rolling. The big thing was that there were only 3 defenses, Reflex, Fortitude, and Will, but all 6 stats affected them. Your reflex defense would use either Dexterity or Intelligence, your Fortitude defense would use either your Strength or Constitution, and your Will defense would use either your Charisma or Wisdom.
@FurTheWorkers
@FurTheWorkers 2 ай бұрын
@@INTCUWUSIUA I only played 4e a couple of times so I didn't remember the system, but yes that is much better
@Golmov_the_Wretched
@Golmov_the_Wretched Ай бұрын
Nitpick.....but D&D used to have a ton of saving throws back in 2e. Saves vs wands, vs paralyzation, vs nearly anything you can think of. And the shorter you were the better your saving throws were. That last line is not a typo. 2e sounds like a long time ago now, but BG1 and BG2 were both based on that rule set.
@appleseed8282
@appleseed8282 Ай бұрын
​@INTCUWUSIUA Technically, there's still saves. Its just one, and you (with exceptions) always do them at the end of a turn to _end_ a condition. So it's very much not the same type of Save, but it is a bit close to still count beyond the name
@Leelee-Brown
@Leelee-Brown 2 ай бұрын
I've never had a problem with Yurgir's encounter. He's unmistakable as a big Devil dude, Raphael warns you. He uses a number of clever strategies and is very different from lots of fights. I really don't love calling this a Uniquely Bad Fight. Its optional, it's challenging, and it has like 2 or 3 dialogue ways to resolve the conflict without combat. He uses bombs but those have really easy counterplay: Separate your team, use Fire resistance stuff, target the boss, leverage whatever strong thing you have. I'd say this fight feels a lot like the Githyanki Dragon Gang fight, the Zhentarim Hideout, and the Myconid Colony in that the "GM" is really encouraging you not to fight here, but you CAN always say "lol i attack". Yurgir has a unique Shop minion if you play nice! And he can support you in multiple parts of the later game. I think his inclusion is super well done.
@nerdybirdnerd916
@nerdybirdnerd916 Ай бұрын
Worth noting that Karlach straight up gives you a real strategy that you can use against Yurgir hours before you'll meet him when you ask about killing devils. You can throw his bombs back at him and his minions.
@aigis0423
@aigis0423 Ай бұрын
Yeah.. I agree with some of this videos takes, but moreso the takes on DnD game design when it comes to saves, and maybe the attack option should be buried behind like... one more text box? But otherwise I disagree with this video.
@ArvelDreth
@ArvelDreth Ай бұрын
You can also just use stealth to kill the minions one by one
@sephikong8323
@sephikong8323 Ай бұрын
Zhentarim is honestly not even that hard though, of all of the options here it's easily the easiest to wipe out due to a simple fact : the smoke powder barrels and oil laying around. I cleanse it every single playthrough now (not before finishing the quest, taking the loot from the vendor and then luring them out because I love maximum efficiency). Though yes, the fight can be tedious if you try to fight it from the entrance or you convinced Rugan to hand you the chest and then try to fight once confronted, but otherwise, the other fights listed here are so much more difficult than this one, even if the Zhent can indeed TPK you in the last case with a single Alchemist Fire lmfao)
@aigis0423
@aigis0423 Ай бұрын
@@sephikong8323 No one brought up the zhentarim though lmao
@jackgetz6583
@jackgetz6583 9 ай бұрын
Some notes on Saving Throws on 5e from someone who plays a lot of RPGs: • In previous versions of the game, there were only three saving throw types, Reflex (based on Dexterity), Fortitude (based on Constitution), and Will (based on Wisdom). Most spells kept their save types between editions, hence (in part) the massive gulf between those three saves and the other saves. • In 5e, saving throws are broken up internally into two types: Strong and Weak saves. Every class has proficiency in two saving throws, and its always one Strong save and one Weak save.
@spacechemsol4288
@spacechemsol4288 9 ай бұрын
Coming from the Owlcat Pathfinder games i had to learn, that there are more than 3 saving throws in BG3 only to realize its still mostly those 3 you mentioned.
@negative6442
@negative6442 2 ай бұрын
I have not the faintest idea why they did away with that system in favor of the 6 saves, when half of those are rarely ever used. But then again you can say that about a LOT of baffling 5e design decisions.
@android19willpwn
@android19willpwn Ай бұрын
@@negative6442 I mean, might as well
@MetalB1985
@MetalB1985 Ай бұрын
@@negative6442 It makes sense in communication design. The Reflex, Fortitude and Will system means, that the player needs to learn three more terms. In 5e each saving throw being named after the attributes and be consistence to them, creates a simpler vocabulary. 5e was designed to be more simpler and cleaner in its rules and language. But this simplicity creates issues with the Game Design, since Intelligent, Strength and Charisma Saves become beginner traps. Either you redesign all the spells to have a equal number of spells, which makes it harder to be resistance to spell in general and empower spell casters even more, or you have a weird case, where there aren't Intelligent, Strength and Charisma Saves at all. Creating question for newer player, if they overlook those Saving throws. I don't think there is a solution and you have to pick your poison. In my opinion creating three new terms "Reflex, Fortitude and Will" is better, since they fit the nature of interaction ("Your character reflex kicks in and they are able to jump to the side, avoiding the trap" ) and are shorter in wording: "Dexterity Saving Throw" vs "Reflex Check". But i get how it would tempting to have clean wording.
@Archegone
@Archegone Ай бұрын
​@@MetalB1985honestly, as a relative newbie to TTRPGS (3 years), saving throws are still one of those things I have to check my sheets for every time I cast - I just can't remember them like the rest of the mechanics. If those terms were reinstated I would probably have a much easier time with understanding saving throws since there would be more of an immediate "story" tie-in. I'm going to make note of those for my next game 😅
@TeddyKrimsony
@TeddyKrimsony 8 ай бұрын
Lmao you can make Yurgir kill his minions and even kill himself
@Shriggins1
@Shriggins1 Ай бұрын
I never had an issue with this fight. I told him to end himself, and surprisingly he did
@Focal_DCS
@Focal_DCS Ай бұрын
Very rarely do I watch a rant on KZbin and go “Wow this person is entirely wrong about this”
@ankleknuckle
@ankleknuckle 2 ай бұрын
mole video hit my recommended and now im binging the entire small catalogue of this channel. great work :)
@-Galaxy-2695
@-Galaxy-2695 2 ай бұрын
Same :DD i saw the hunger games one in my recommended but never clicked - but after seeing how awesome The Mole one was I’m binging it all
@Melissanoma
@Melissanoma 2 ай бұрын
I think this just shows how that one strategy makes the fight impossible. Okay so if you don't open the fight by hard locking him down, then he crushes your party with area damage? Try spreading the group out and sending the tankiest to initiate dialog, so at most he damages one person. Try sending a charismatic party member to convince him to not fight you. Try exploring the dungeon more and find the hidden quest solving his contract with Raphael. And those are just the "realistic" options. If you don't mind doing things that expose the gamey-ness of the world, you can also change everyone's class composition or just pile up explosives by his feet when he's not looking.
@solsystem1342
@solsystem1342 2 ай бұрын
Sure, if you have the foresight from a previous playthrough you could intentionally let one of your party members be killed and hold the others back to start the fight but that's not a strategy that makes sense unless your on your second attempt. Unsure of out of combat options I'm just taking this from a DND DM perspective. It'd be ok to drop a powerful creature who doesn't want the party dead into a game or have them try and hold off someone who is too strong until the cavalry arrives (my party has met a dragon and fought an epic level character the dragon also wanted the epic level character dead though so that helped).
@-Galaxy-2695
@-Galaxy-2695 2 ай бұрын
This is from a first-time-play through perspective.
@Melissanoma
@Melissanoma 2 ай бұрын
@@-Galaxy-2695 that still tracks. You don't need to do multiple playthroughs to think "spread out my team".
@INTCUWUSIUA
@INTCUWUSIUA 2 ай бұрын
@@solsystem1342 I stumbled into this fight on by first playthrough and it was honestly not that hard. Not entirely easy of course, but it didn't feel out of place hard. I always spread out my party going into obvious fights, and use potions of invisibility to protect my weaker party members if it looks especially hairy. In this particular fight I used a scroll of Wall of Stone to open the fight, which created cover and a choke point to funnel all his dudes into. I then used Cloud of Daggers to turn that choke point into a meatgrinder. Then it was just a matter of using shoves and eldritch blasts to push anyone who got past back into the cloud, and use healing spells and potions to keep everyone alive. My party comp here was Wyll, Shadowheart, and Gale as their original classes and my Tav as a Paladin/Warlock multiclass.
@JuliusKingsleyXIII
@JuliusKingsleyXIII Ай бұрын
I think that is more of a problem that you give it credit for. How exactly does the party win this encounter in universe without meta knowledge? This is always sort of a problem in games, but the extent to which it is a problem ranges greatly. The odds are so insanely stacked it genuinely makes you wonder how exactly a party would actually win this fight going in. They do sneak around, determine his exact strategy at a glance, and develop the perfect countermeasure on the first try by sheer skill or luck? That's a big if. Especially in a game where it is sort of implied you do open most fights by talking, what does the party do to avoid getting wiped on Yrgir's first turn. Again, this is something of a problem in any game but it seems like a particularly large problem here.
@nomadzlife4585
@nomadzlife4585 Ай бұрын
I’ll be honest… I’d agree with you if you didnt play on tactician…. You’re ignoring so many strategies you can employ that make this a conquerable fight whilst still difficult…. Running in and getting ambushed and finding it impossible to overcome is supposed to happen… that’s what an ambush should be… if you ungroup and set up your party in specific ways prior to engaging however this fight is much more manageable
@vrchhu4066
@vrchhu4066 Ай бұрын
Literally. Just send in one person with the periapt of wound closure, and have the rest ready after they get nuked. Not every fight is a nail, don't fight them all with a hammer
@DrRobertBischof
@DrRobertBischof Ай бұрын
​@@vrchhu4066Don't even have to do that. Go up the back stairs and you can ambush them instead of the other way around. Surprise everyone except yurgir and then shit on them. It's super easy lmao, never had this fight go longer than 2 rounds even on honour mode
@projectmira
@projectmira Ай бұрын
idk I feel like that takes away from the fun of the encounter. its a crpg so of course some save scumming is involved but larian has a history of throwing you into situations like this, and being expected to just know what to do before the fight even happens is unfair. I didn't have issues with this fight, but I can totally see why someone would especially if they weren't metagaming it
@GoodMorningButch
@GoodMorningButch 29 күн бұрын
Did this fight recently in honor mode, sneaked around to that higher part of the building to get a jump on him and the rest, it was a piece of cake after that.
@Rynewulf
@Rynewulf 2 сағат бұрын
@@projectmiraunfortunatey this is core crpg combat design since crpgs were invented in the 90s. The balance is wonky, the fights are either cakewalks or genuine challenges, and its expected you will abuse the mechanics to just shy of crashing the game. None of that is inherently good, but Larian has almost 20 years of this type of dev experience
@Veto2090
@Veto2090 2 ай бұрын
You can literally say you'll help and can betray him later when he's below you and off guard
@endriw194
@endriw194 Ай бұрын
straight up. you can even turn the displacer beast on him. they're angry at the game bacause they didn't play it smart like they did with Balthazar
@yautjaprime9148
@yautjaprime9148 Ай бұрын
You can NOT sometime he just attacks you as soon as he sees you
@Lernos1
@Lernos1 Ай бұрын
@@yautjaprime9148 It is consistent if you know WHY he attacks you. And he does it when you spot their ambush before approaching the normal way. Always follow the displacer beast first instead of scouting another path off to the right, and you will get into the dialogue cutscene all the time.
@aldmerian
@aldmerian Ай бұрын
​@@yautjaprime9148this isn't true. If the fight triggered before dialogue, it's because you were trying to sneak up on him while not sneaking, lol.
@sarnicholas4053
@sarnicholas4053 Ай бұрын
I played BG3 for the first time in 2024 and this is the one and only fight I used what I understand is lovingly called "Barrelmancy" for. Good to know my intuition was correct.
@theskeletonposse6432
@theskeletonposse6432 2 ай бұрын
good video, which i agree with, but here's one avenue to making the fight easier that was not considered in the video: de-grouping your party and spreading them out so that only one party member at a time has to try to survive area attacks, which is a common strategy in tabletop DnD and doable within BG3 with the G key
@android19willpwn
@android19willpwn Ай бұрын
it was mentioned as still being non-ideal, since you're still starting with one party member downed or fully dead. When you've only got four people on a team and the man can do this every time initiative rolls over, that's not exactly a good position to win from.
@heilmodrhinnheimski
@heilmodrhinnheimski Ай бұрын
@@android19willpwnUnless you have your beefiest character be the only one within range. In my first playthrough, I started by ambushing his guards and eventually drawing him out of his hiding spot.
@codymarshall587
@codymarshall587 Ай бұрын
So I can shine some light on the saving throw situation: There are three “major” saves: Con, Wis, and Dex There are three “minor” saves: Int, Cha, Str This is intended gameplay, each class gets proficiency in one minor and one major. What you said about monster abilities should be an acceptable and satisfying answer and I’m sorry that it isn’t for you. Minor saves are usually saved for more specific and targeted effects whereas the major saves are used for the three most common kinds of saves: Dodge something, resist a mind affecting effect, or resist something through bodily force. Strength saves are somewhat common amongst spells in real 5e, int and charisma however we can be realistic about: Intelligence saves represent a very specific kind of effect and most characters have low intelligence scores. Charisma saves have almost no presence in the game and are nearly irrelevant in both BG3 and tabletop. The rare occasions that either appear they are devastating effects that really matter. So their relative rarity is balanced by their pinpoint precision effectiveness. They are like sniper rifles where as wis, dex, and con saves are like shotguns. You get peppered by them for comparably more minor effects and the occasional major hit but when combined they have a severe impact. A sniper just needs one shot and one hit to matter. A graze will leave you spinning. The reason wisdom, con, and dex are the “major” saves is because their effects are common and the scores they rely are generally going to be above ten for a remotely optimized character. I’m sorry this system doesn’t seem satisfactory to you but I can promise you that it is very well balanced, and trust me there are plenty of areas of this game that I would gladly discuss balance issues in - the saving throw balance simply isn’t one of them. I’m not here to suck WOTC off, I just disagree that saving throws are the problem here.
@boianko
@boianko Ай бұрын
It's also a matter of severity. Intelligence and Charisma save usually have devastating effects which can straight up take your character out of the fight (Intellect devourer beinf able to instantly kill someone who fails its save comes to mind). In a game that has Mind Flayers as its main opposing faction, it seems like a strange thing to complain about. If the players neglect those saving throws, they can pretty safely coast through most of the game, but are incredibly vulnerable to the rare (and often very difficult) mindflayer encounters.
@chilledoutrobot6358
@chilledoutrobot6358 2 ай бұрын
On my first play through I just saw the obvious trap for the displaced beast and jumped across the gap and be on even ground on the top right.
@TDestro9
@TDestro9 Ай бұрын
I figured it was trap when the cat stopped at the gem. I thought to myself “this is a first, this game has never done this. I’m calling this a trap” Then I found the gap, took the high ground and burst down the boss while keeping everyone spread out once I learned that he had bombs. Tbh this is just a skill issue to not see the trap and not playing around your mistakes. A boss fight that is bs in my opinion? Grym fight, that fight is just pure RNG hell
@zelda4ever72
@zelda4ever72 Ай бұрын
​@@TDestro9 personally I just Owlbear from the top rope him because I hate the fight and want the gear. It's easy takes like 2 minutes and is hilarious. I basically cast Tasha's laughter on myself IRL the first time I did it.
@michelerenae9998
@michelerenae9998 Ай бұрын
This is what I do too, then just sneak up and unload as many arrows of many targets as I have.
@kenkoopa7903
@kenkoopa7903 2 ай бұрын
Folks have mentioned 3.x games having just three saves, but it also had an additional rule for concentration: you had to use your action as well to hold concentration. The two daughter games of D&D 3e, 5e and Pathfinder 2e, seem to have taken one of these rules for themselves with sustained casting: 5e keeps a Con check to resist damage without requiring an action, and PF2e keeps using an action (one of three you on a turn) without requiring a save/skill check.
@plemgrubern
@plemgrubern 2 ай бұрын
you didn't have to spend an action in 3E, concentration checks were free actions you made when you wanted to, for example, cast a spell while taking an attack of opportunity or damage over time. if you fail, you don't cast the spell. spells with a duration you already cast just stayed up, no concentration check needed if you take damage.
@firelegendmushroom
@firelegendmushroom Ай бұрын
@@plemgrubernthey’re referring to concentration duration spells, I believe, which take up your whole action to maintain (storm of vengeance is an example). They’re by far less common of a mechanic in that game and mostly used for sustained effect spells that you can justify fully committing to.
@panampace
@panampace 2 ай бұрын
Never noticed any particular issues with this fight. I think this is over analyzing a personal experience.
@heilmodrhinnheimski
@heilmodrhinnheimski Ай бұрын
Agreed
@OniYuri-r4o
@OniYuri-r4o Ай бұрын
I remember doing this on balanced n it wasn’t an issue but on balanced is the key words there much harder on tact
@hallyuniverse
@hallyuniverse Ай бұрын
Yeah this is one of the easier big bosses if you know the fight, and most people are going to know the fight if they're doing it on Tactician or Honour Mode. You just have to position before the fight so your characters are not grouped or use a high Dex character with Alert to take action before Yurgir. Myrkul, Raphael, and Ansur are all significantly harder on Tactician/Honour than Yurgir. Can't really complain a fight is poorly designed or too hard if your characters aren't built to deal with it and you don't understand how to play around the mechanics.
@heilmodrhinnheimski
@heilmodrhinnheimski Ай бұрын
@@OniYuri-r4o I played through on Tactician for my first run and still didn’t find it too painful. I think it’s a really well-done fight.
@harrisonnelson9368
@harrisonnelson9368 2 ай бұрын
23:49 too bad I saw your other videos and enjoyed them so I will be subscribing hoping for more
@blackout995
@blackout995 Ай бұрын
Yurgir is a noob check for the subsequent boss fights in acts 2 and 3. It is a crash course in using CC and positioning to beat 1 major boss + a horde of minions (not 2-4, but >8), like the Duergar and Nere earlier in the act. My first playthrough was on tactician and he wiped my party several times... but I have not lost to him in any subsequent playthrough, including HM. I appreciate that the fight has no clever tricks, only fundamentals. It IS optional after all
@TheKarishi
@TheKarishi Ай бұрын
The crazy answer to the saving throw question you asked is: History. In 3rd Ed D&D (and modern Pathfinder) you have 3 saving throws: Fortitude (uses Constitution), Reflex (uses Dexterity), and Will (uses Wisdom). Strength got enough value from being your main way of getting bonus melee damage, intelligence gave you bonus skill points, and Charisma was a dump stat if you weren't certain kinds of spellcasters. And the 3-save system makes sense: For most kinds of magical effects, you dodge it, withstand it, or see through it. "Think through it" requires very specific kinds of spells, almost invented TO require Intelligence saves. But it's not because it makes sense that the saves carried over; It's because they were already written. Fireball? Dodging the worst of it was Reflex, so that's a Dex save...Repeat this idea for every written spell and only spells that are written NEW in 5E are using saves besides Con, Dex, and Wis.
@lioco6124
@lioco6124 2 ай бұрын
i just convinced him to kill himself and all his friends before the fight even began
@zenithrium
@zenithrium 2 ай бұрын
interesting - i just did not trust raphael at all, so i instantly listened to what yurgir was saying
@isaiahrawlinson4885
@isaiahrawlinson4885 Ай бұрын
Raphael's so obviously evil and sleazy lol
@vincentmatamoros1757
@vincentmatamoros1757 Ай бұрын
I agree that his fight is very tough, but hes vulnerable to a lot of different party comps, and yours just so happened to be perfectly countered by him. For example, I was rocking a gloomstalker rogue with the alert feat, and KO'd Yurgir turn one before he could act. There's also the several different ways you can use dialogue to make the fight easier or just avoid it entirely.
@Draugrimm
@Draugrimm Ай бұрын
Facts. Just tell him to unalive himself loool
@MegaphoneMan0
@MegaphoneMan0 Ай бұрын
"I was rocking the #1 power build in the game". Yeah, that would make this fight a lot easier.
@hallyuniverse
@hallyuniverse Ай бұрын
@@MegaphoneMan0 I mean it's more so the playstyle of Gloomstalker Rogue that makes the fight easier rather than the fact that it's one of the most broken builds in BG3. Any damage character with the Alert feat and high Dex is going to do the same thing. Just positioning your party before the fight makes it 10x easier, it's not like it's a surprise fight that you're immediately thrown into. Also, playing on Tactician or Honour means you want hard fights, so no real reason to complain about difficulty especially if you're choosing to play those modes without optimized builds.
@MegaphoneMan0
@MegaphoneMan0 Ай бұрын
​@@hallyuniverse I don't think the point of her video was "I don't like hard fights", it is that this fight specifically is not in alignment with the difficulty of the rest of the game. It is an outlier in terms of the options that you have to complete it. Like, just my opinion, but BG3 is not a particularly difficult game on tactitian, especially if you have experience in the tabletop ahead of time. The point is that no other fight puts such heavy restrictions on how to engage with it by the nature of its design. Yes, there are still plenty of options, but it is an outlier in how few there are compared to the average in BG3. (Also, lumping Tactician and Honor in to the same category is a bit off to me. Tactician to Honor is a much steeper difficulty spike that Normal to Tactician) And if we want to wrap it back to Gloom Rogue, that is not just an "optimized build". It is a build It exploits the rules system at a base level. it does not engage with enemy strategy or weaknesses, it engages with the system's weaknesses. Any build with those attributes will always be good, in any combat, no matter what. So that's why I commented what I did, pointing to those builds as a solution to this combat is a bit silly to me because they're basically a solution to every combat.
@hallyuniverse
@hallyuniverse Ай бұрын
@@MegaphoneMan0 I've beaten the fight on multiple Tactician/Honour mode playthroughs (without Gloomstalker Rogue). Usually my party is Warlock + Paladin/Warlock Multi + Fighter + Cleric and I've had no issues doing the fight with proper positioning.
@Maria-ub3qu
@Maria-ub3qu 9 ай бұрын
I remember the fight painfully bad from the only playthrough I reached it in but I don’t remember the first turn bomb kill being such a problem- not following the trap and avoiding a direct confrontation as suggested by the game makes you able to get a better positioning and a first turn for some small preparation. The whole point of the fight however is not to try to incapacitate him to brute force the fight, but playing by the gimmick Karlach describes you as the best way to kill an Orthon in the interaction you can have with her at the camp about killing devils: you send their projectiles back. Throwing those powerful bombs back solves both the positioning problem in the turns after the first and helps you clearing the room from the minions while doing him damage. This surely doesn’t solve the design problem you described in this video but it helps and tbh I think BG3 acknowledges this problem by creating a lot of very readable gimmick mechanics for almost every boss in the game (and even some very clever intended ways to skip entire tedious boss fights without fighting) at the point that the game becomes more a puzzle of trial and error to found the intended strategy where sometimes powerplaying becomes a problem more that an helping hand. I’m not a huge fan of the approach Larian decided here but it’s surely a clever one.
@ArvelDreth
@ArvelDreth Ай бұрын
I never realized this fight was supposed to be hard. I always walked up and drew out each minion one by one with stealth before smoking Yurgir. And this was on tactician.
@joebe123
@joebe123 Ай бұрын
You can talk him into killing All of his allies and then himself. You don't even have to fight
@sixft_under
@sixft_under Ай бұрын
As somebody who only ever "fought" him once by convincing him first to self delete, and then later that we're best buds I'll just take your word for it lol
@mestupkid211986
@mestupkid211986 Ай бұрын
You can approach the fight from a different angle, and come up behind Yurgir, and get a surprise attack
@gaborjuracsik4847
@gaborjuracsik4847 Ай бұрын
But why fight when you can talk him into killing himself?
@Elazul.Lapislazuli
@Elazul.Lapislazuli Ай бұрын
@@gaborjuracsik4847 but why can talk him into killing himself if you can solve his problem and mess with Raphael's plan? (beside the funny dialogs)
@gaborjuracsik4847
@gaborjuracsik4847 Ай бұрын
​@@Elazul.Lapislazuli Honestly, because it disappears at the end of each round. You would think that such a large brutal animal would simply attack you, but no, it is using tactics. And he's good at his own tactics.
@CJWproductions
@CJWproductions 2 ай бұрын
This fight wasn't too much of a problem for me. I think I had to reload once. I couldn't tell you what strategy I used though. I don't think he did the whole "throw bombs and then immediately detonate the bombs on the same turn" thing. That seems unintended imo. The bombs are interactible -- you can pick them up and throw them back! But if he never lets them sit out for any turns then you'd never know
@roperl22
@roperl22 Ай бұрын
the first time i encountered him i was a bard, and it gave me the option to try to free him, which resulted in me telling him he needed to kill his guards, then the displacer beast, and finally with enough inspiration him too, legitimatly one of the funniest ways to resolve a fight because it was so dumb
@louisduquette8811
@louisduquette8811 Ай бұрын
Hungar of hadar!! Hungar of hadar!!! HUNGAR OF HADAAAARRRR!!!! lmao, i always had someone with it and you just cast it before the fight has started.
@gonnsolo8506
@gonnsolo8506 2 ай бұрын
It is I, the digital void screaming back after having watched every single one of your vids. Glad you didnt just disappear
@LunaDziaba
@LunaDziaba 5 ай бұрын
hi, this is old but anyway; first i wanna say i did love the video and your criticisms are absolutely valid, i do want to say though that, most of these issues, while present in standard dnd, are only really impactful in a dnd video game. That’s because in normal dnd, you will have a game master who is there to make a fun story to play through with their friends, and because they are a human present in the moment they can adjust poorly planned situations like the yurgir fight on the fly. Additionally, while i adore baldurs gate, dnd is a difficult game to turn into a video game because in tabletop play, usually the mechanics are serving as a catalyst for the story telling. its more about telling a fun story and roleplaying characters than it is about video game style math equation combat. Finally, I also want to comment on your comment about how baldurs gate should expect its players to want to fight the so called impossible fight. while this is true, it conflicts while the role play and immersion part of the game because in a massive fantasy world like this, it’s simply a fact that there are countless enemies or situations your party is just not powerful enough to handle. For example, image you were in one of these fantasy worlds and decided to start adventuring. When you first start, you’re just a girl who’s learned some magic or is particularly good with a sword. if a master mage or smt tells you hey there’s a crazy dragon that way don’t go there you wouldn’t think, hey, i’m an adventurer it’ll probably be really tough but i think i could take the dragon, you’d be scared and avoid it at all costs until you are more powerful and are sure you wouldn’t be killed fighting it. Anyway end of rant. I love your videos please make more :3
@Sina-dv1eg
@Sina-dv1eg 2 ай бұрын
The truth: DnD's combat is terribly designed, and it relies on the DM doing the heavy lifting to make it actually playable and fun. Tons of tabletop RPGs (such as Pathfinder) manage to make combat fun even if you just stick to the rules, with the option to still make things up if you want to.
@doodlenoodle9769
@doodlenoodle9769 2 ай бұрын
I've done 3 playthroughs now and I've NEVER done this fight because I always get him to off himself. Charisma builds for the win
@WaterTheBoy
@WaterTheBoy Ай бұрын
I convinced that guy to off himself, so I didn't get to fight him. I hope he was bluffing when he said he'd come back to get me if I was lying.
@joe-583
@joe-583 Ай бұрын
Your perception of Raphael was a bit different from mine. Throughout the game I was firmly in the mindset that he was not our ally and we shouldn't trust him. He's also very condescending and tries to make you doubt your own abilities, which made me want to wipe that smug expression off his face. When I got to Yurgir I was sympathetic to him because we both hated Raphael, so I wanted to team up with him. But Astarion needed Raphael's help so I had to make the difficult choice to kill Yurgir. During the actual fight I don't think I had as much trouble as you did, probably because of my party composition (my barbarian, minthara, Astarion, and life cleric shart) which could tank/heal the damage and quickly kill the merrigons. But Yogurt was still annoying even then, on balanced difficulty. He would always turn invisible and I didn't have volo's eye, so we had to throw aoe damage spells/faerie fire, or have shart cast spirit guardians and run around aimlessly until we caught him.
@SharurFoF
@SharurFoF Ай бұрын
"Saving throws are absolutely dominated by Dexterity and Wisdom, and I don't understand why" One of the many axes/spectrums on which game design operates is simulation/verisimilitude vs gamey-ness/abstraction. The origins of D&D tilt very heavily in the direction of simulation, and although that's been reduced over time with the various editions, it still has a big impact in the overall design. So the goal isn't simply to balance out the various types of saves, but also to have the saves "make sense". I don't think that, by itself, fully explains what's going on, but it certainly explains some of it. The clearest example is Dexterity. The reason, e.g., Fireball has a Dex save is because the way you take less damage from it is to get the hell out of the way. There's other ways you could imagine portraying this, of course, but it does make sense from a simulation standpoint. And there are a lot of spells like Fireball that are basically "hurl some kind of energy at a target or targets". Wisdom is definitely less clear, but it has a similar explanation. Wisdom as a score is used whenever you're evaluating a character's willpower (another commenter mentions the origins of this in the Reflex/Fortitude/Willpower saves of previous editions of D&D). To me this is questionable, but that's the choice they made. So you also have a large category of spells (like Hold Person, or Tasha's Hideous Laughter) where the way you resist them is through willpower, so they have Wisdom saves. And it does make sense from a simulation standpoint that you wouldn't find many Charisma saves. What would it look like to resist a spell through Charisma? I'm sure you could come up with examples, but not nearly so many as "you dodge out of the way" or "you have the will to resist". Should D&D be moved further away from simulation towards a more balanced abstraction? Should a game like BG3 do more to tweak baseline D&D to fit its context? I don't have a strong opinion on that.
@r2d2sp1
@r2d2sp1 Ай бұрын
15:10 I can see the problem with that many Wisdom saving throws, which could very well be distributed into Int and Cha. However, i think Dexterity saving throws being in such abundance is super valid, like, there's no way i can just think my way out of a fireball
@FruduBuggins
@FruduBuggins Ай бұрын
Got such a hole in my stomach when i saw the "Don't be mean to me" text. You are valuable Ellie. U can take up space. I love this video and its specific well argued critique.
@mrsandman-tw6dz
@mrsandman-tw6dz Ай бұрын
on the saving throw argument, not having an even spread of saves make perfect sense to me. its hard to design a spell where the goal is to use brute strength to save it, same with intelligence and being able to essentially "fact check" in the middle of a fight, and charisma with "Being present enough in the world around you/ having a imposing enough presence". In dex's case, many of the saves could be conceived as getting out of the way; fireball/cone of cold trying to roll behind any mild cover, and disintegrate with dodging a thin green beam. for wis, its more your own ability to keep your mind your own; dominate person as a literal example, hold person could be seen as denying someone control over your body. I will admit, some spells not being intelligence saves upsets me slightly because of the nature of what happens and such; phantasmal killer is literally making someone perceive their worst fear as if it was real, being able to see through illusions is generally a int save. from a game design standpoint, yes it is bad, from a logic standpoint it makes total sense. edit: also, If you would have at least had another martial, if not a half caster at minimum, you would have the ability to keep your squishy casters out of the fight while they cast hit die spells like Eldredge blast and guiding bolt from the back lines while also buffing/healing your local lumps of flesh. your team comp is all spellcasters that use save spells, and one martial that is notorious for lacking ac without any ac buffs or buffs in general.
@caffiend81
@caffiend81 6 ай бұрын
Wouldn't Banish have put you in combat and given you time to summon the meat monster? I wish I could remember what I did in Honour Mode. It was certainly dishonorable whatever it was because I agree with you, fuck that guy 🤣
@Lardo137
@Lardo137 Ай бұрын
I think this is one of those encounters that would never EVER be done in an actual tabletop, but only really becomes bearable in the context of loads and saves allowing you to retry the fight from different angles.
@aadityayanamandra8846
@aadityayanamandra8846 Ай бұрын
d&d used to use fortitude (con), reflex (dex), and will (wis) saves exclusively. That system still has its legacy in the current game, as the corresponding types of saves are seen FAR more often.
@MrKarnac
@MrKarnac Ай бұрын
Just reset the shop at level 8 or 9 in Last Light Inn until you can buy a scroll of globe of invulnerability. xD
@Rynewulf
@Rynewulf 2 сағат бұрын
This is how I learn my wife's and mine "warlock, cleric, barbarian, druid" setup is way overpowered. We got him in one go
@LDProductionsClass
@LDProductionsClass Ай бұрын
@14:30 the reason for this spread is that in 3.5, the closest predecessor spiritually to 5e, there are only three saves: reflex (dex), fortitude (con), and will (wisdom) representing dodging, shrugging something off, or mentally resisting a mind effect. 5e added saving throws to all 6 stats in theory, but strength only applies to immobilizing effects, charisma to contests of personality, and intelligence not at all - ref/fort/will still cover most bases.
@therottenchihuahua6465
@therottenchihuahua6465 Ай бұрын
For the spell sav thing its becuase of how the spell "attacks an opponent" dex savs are for spells opponents need to dodge, wisdom save are for throwing off mental effects or domination or will saves, con is the opponents ability to resist a physical afliction. Psycic lance is one of the few int saves.
@heatran1919
@heatran1919 Ай бұрын
Honestly i love how challenging this fight is; i was running a crazy Light Cleric build my first tactician run with radiating orbs & reverberation and Yurgir was the first fight i had to try more than twice to beat. Ambushing him with a spread out party is definitely the way to go, a Warlock with Repelling Blast can knock him off the ledge to make his first turn less efficient, then Spirit Guardians can mop up the Merregons and make the fight a 4v1 real quick
@skellyskoo
@skellyskoo 4 ай бұрын
I decided my best bet is having a sorcerer with as many hailstorm/ice storm scrolls as possible and just going to town on making an ice rink
@froyothewolf
@froyothewolf Ай бұрын
I've never fought Yurgir fairly. Not once. I don't trust Raphael, never have, never will. So when he said there's a big monster, I decided I'd go chat first. Found the displacer beast and immediately killed it, not even letting it turn the corner. Found a secondary staircase and oh look, Yurgir and a mess of merregons in ambush mode (thanks perception check). All of this under stealth. I examine them, figure out they don't take fire damage, but as fiends they will get hurt by holy water. Neat, haven't used any of my holy water so far, now is as good a time as any. 5 minutes of holy water and smokepowder placement, one spell to set it off, and I never actually talked to the guy as I first intended. All subsequent playthroughs, I convince him to let me live (I owe Raphael nothing, as he never stops dangling your desperation in front of you), and either skip town or blow him up on my terms. Because yeah, invisiblity plus bombs is a cheap trick that only I as the player get to do. Total hero, I am.
@TheCrimsonBard
@TheCrimsonBard Ай бұрын
Jokes aside, party comp is always gonna make a huge difference, and game ending fights for one person are going to be trivial for another. Like half the shadowfell fights *without* a cleric or spirit guardians. Or redoing the Shar temple without knock. Your approach to the fight is practically a souls borne approach lol, but the beauty of this game is the variety of those approaches (I say this having just watch my partner nearly get game ended by the monks that did take me a second thought, while never even discovering the meenlocks that almost insta gibbed me).
@maebarlow8572
@maebarlow8572 Ай бұрын
great video, but personally i don’t have these issues. with the alert feat and 18-20 dex any character can match or surpass yurgir’s initiative. i sneak 2 martials behind him to start the fight with surprise and then melt him before the merregons can attack. at level 7/8 yurgir won’t be one shotting your martial characters and in my experience his health pool isn’t large enough to stop you from dropping him in one combat round.
@clubbedpenguin.
@clubbedpenguin. Ай бұрын
This appears to be showing up now on a lot of people’s recommendeds despite being an older video, as it did mine. I do find the whole thing very funny, however, as I beat him first try pretty easily in my play-through. I convinced him to kill his allies and then sent my hasted Battle Master/Barbarian Karlach to disarm all his weapons and knock him on his butt To answer the saving throw thing, its a deliberate game design thing based around class and spell balancing. Every class has a “good” saving throw proficiency and a “niche” saving throw proficiency. On the flip side, it balances spells since those that target niche saving throws are by default better. Its the entire reason some spells like Bane see play and what keeps strong debuffs like Blindness/Deafness and even spells that can be completely Save or Suck for some creatures like Levitate in check, since they are behind the more commonly resisted con save. If int save spells were more common and diverse, then con save spells would never see play due to the massive disparity between the average monster’s intelligence/charisma and constitution score.
@somebadbeatscrub3154
@somebadbeatscrub3154 Ай бұрын
I have never once talked to yurgir or fought him on his terms. I could tell the displacer beast was leading me to a trap so i decoded to poke around the map on the approach to see what I could find. Through exploring the area i discovered A: you can jump up to a staircase that gets you on his second story across the gap B: you can hop/misty step to the rafters behind his ambush and ambush the ambush after juicing up on elixirs and such. I chose option B on my first and every subsequent playthrough. He bodied me the first time when i ran in guns blazing in the ambush, got a good turn in, and then he went invisible and blew my ass up. So my second attempt. And every attempt after, i prioritize using my first surprise round action to get a branding smite or faerie fire on his ass. I position my best aoe tank (a cleric with spirit guardians) at the chokepoint to cut off his merregon friends and focus him down, and then his pet catto. He will not violate the geneva convention if he will be in the fallout radius by the by. Also if your party isnt grouped up but split up in hiding further back you can allow all of them to.move before Yurgir gets his turn Ive missed out on content by refusing to engage with him straight up but he's a devil, fuck that guy, and i was gonna kill Balthazar anyways.
@bryceezekai2898
@bryceezekai2898 Ай бұрын
I never found this fight too difficult. The first time i had a monk with alert. The second time i waited until the goons were all split up, and attacked from the shadows, at level 6 in tactitian.
@6_SpeedGonzales
@6_SpeedGonzales 2 ай бұрын
Baldur’s Gate 3 very quickly became one of my all time favorite games despite never playing it really knowing anything about DnD. Very interesting and informative perspectives here. I’ve definitely learned something and I look forward to learning more.
@micahvisser3772
@micahvisser3772 Ай бұрын
This part of the game is the DM deciding "I'm done with your shit, TPK time"
@jaceg810
@jaceg810 Ай бұрын
Oh it gets even better, I found a scroll of planar binding as a reward early on, When I saw big dumb guy, I thought immediately, lets go, It had a 30-60 something chance of success, so I thought that was worth it. Then the guy failed the save, but was IMMUNE to the effect, not because of any of his features, but presumably because of his main character syndrome.
@an8strengthkobold360
@an8strengthkobold360 Ай бұрын
The savingthrows thing is very much part of the games design in 5e. Dex, Wis & Con are the common ones. So each class gets one of these. While Str, Int & Cha are less common so you get one of these as your second type of save. There are a few more Int spell in dnd which tend to get cut (because they're part of spells that are garder to adapt into video games).
@MozierDax
@MozierDax Ай бұрын
You have dialogue options to remove his lackeys, pet, and then him. You can also start in the bottom area and only have one person talk to him and then run underneath so they have to come to you.
@curiouswind9196
@curiouswind9196 Ай бұрын
I like how you can chanve the difficulty of the fight with skill checks or end it all together
@toxicthorn769
@toxicthorn769 Ай бұрын
I think the spells largely targeting saves based on Dex, Wis, and Con is a holdover from earlier editions. This is absolutely 5E's fault. I do actually prefer only three saves though, (Dex, Wis, and Con), but I'm a 2e gamer through and through, so I might be biased.
@BayKozmik
@BayKozmik Ай бұрын
Kids, thats why you take he Alert feat 👍
@spacechemsol4288
@spacechemsol4288 9 ай бұрын
23:32 you cant tell me what to do! But honestly this channel has (by the time im watching) 4 incredible videos and this issue with D&D and also Pathfinder (owlcat) games or even in general turn based games is something that i have noticed more and more is less present when you have a dungeon master that can moderate in unbalanced fights to avoid the munchkinization that would otherwise be necessary. Unfortunately computer games arent very good at this, we will see what the future brings.
@popeemma65
@popeemma65 Ай бұрын
>I want to triumph in the face of hardship >Wait no not that hardship though
@TheSpictor
@TheSpictor 2 ай бұрын
You touch on a bunch of very interesting parts of DND 5e design. The main thing I want to reply to is the saves. And present my 2 reasons for why it is the way you rightfully describe it as. 5e breaks saves down into the strong saves Dex/Con/Wis, based on the older editions Reflex/Fortitude/Will saves and the weak saves Str/Int/Cha. The 6 stats of the game did not change, so the weak save stats used to not affect saves at all. Now spells are also a thing that gets carried from edition to edition. So what happens if you translate 90% of your spells from an edition that only had 3 saves? You get a bunch of spells that target those 3 saves and not a lot that target the other 3. This makes legacy carry over aka apeal to returning players reason number 1. So with this as a given, they leaned into it and made the strong and weak save system. Which is codified into the game by giving every single class, exactly 1 strong save and 1 weak save. Providing a defence boost against 1 common and 1 uncommon challenge. The second reason is that not all stats are made the same, especially when it comes to monster. Str/Int/Cha are three outlier stats that can vary wildly. Bassically any animal will have an Int bonus between -5 to -3. So will most uninteligent undead. Construct often end up with such a low Int and also a Cha that is -5. So any dominant spell that targets those saves can trivialise entire genres of monsters. Str is at the other opposite, often being way higher then you would see for other stats at their respective level. An ogre meant to fight a level 2 party has a +4 Str, a hill giant for a level 5 party has a +5. So suddenly spells targeting Str run into the problem of underperforming against most boss monsters. This leads to there being more Str targeting spells than Int and Cha, as your data shows, since the Str problem is less of a problem. But it still means fewer Str spells get made. And then there is the difference of medium. DnD is a game of imperfect information, chance and consequence. You won't know how high your chance of success is before rolling, often not even after. And there is no reloading your rolls and trying again. Which would make the Yurgir fight a TPK. Total party kill. Those happen, they suck and nearly allways mean that the GM screwed up. And as good as the team behind baldurs gate 3 is at making challenging, yet fair and enganging fights, they did screw up this one.
@williamhanke8568
@williamhanke8568 Ай бұрын
Idk when a devil teleports and goes yeah your gonna die in there I tend to believe them
@NeroWesten
@NeroWesten Ай бұрын
The first time I ran into him I had the same problem you did. And died. Then I realized I could either head up the back way and not be at such a disadvantage, or help him and get his help later in the fight against Rafael. Walking up that way is the hardest almost impossible way to fight him for sure.
@neptune7042
@neptune7042 Ай бұрын
to be fair, the odds of failing the checks to get rid of the minions is pretty low
@snakeman830
@snakeman830 Ай бұрын
And here I was on my first run where the only reason I kept reloading this fight was trying to find a way to save Nessa.
@CMoore-Gaming
@CMoore-Gaming 2 ай бұрын
The one time I did this fight, I snuck around with my rogue, placing every explosive barrel I found since the beginning of the game, then blew everyone into the low ground or killing them outright. It was still a challenging fight.
@michelemichienzi934
@michelemichienzi934 Ай бұрын
This is the point I decided that the game clearly wasn't playing fair so I proceeded to cheese the shit out of everything. Dnd 5e isn't a particularly deep combat system and most of the time it just asks you how can you spin the situation to be in your complete advantage. The answer is ambush and aoe field effects most of the times.
@thechosenflutterbox
@thechosenflutterbox Ай бұрын
The 'I got a crazy idea' often turns into barrelmancy. Which it's cool that it's an option, but also kinda lame that there's always a 'get out of jail free card' available at any time, that you can use as often as you have 5 or more barrels
@gray5817
@gray5817 Ай бұрын
At first i was thinking "why would this be a problem" but then i remembered not everyone uses partylimit begone and Level 20 multiclass mod so they have a party of 8 at level 10 for this fight
@thefrostychemist
@thefrostychemist Ай бұрын
It's worth looking at past editions of D&D where there are only three saving throws-Will, Fortitude, and Reflex-to figure out the saving throw design of 5th Edition. The three are effectively Wisdom, Constitution, and Dexterity saving throws, which remain as the three major saving throws in 5e; it's notable that each class gets a mix of one major and one minor saving throw, even if they aren't necessarily the primary abilities of the class (i.e. Paladin getting Wisdom and Charisma to represent their iron willpower and resolve rather than Strength and Charisma). To expand on each, the 2024 DMG actually gives a good rule of thumb for saving throws: Strength is for resisting a physical force, Dexterity is dodging out of the way, Constitution is resilience to bodily effects like poison or cold, Intelligence is for deducing illusions, Wisdom is for resisting mental effects, and Charisma is for asserting identity. It makes sense then why those three are a lot more common against magical spells. Finally, it's worth thinking of saving throws not as damage types that are more or less interchangeable except for the rare resistance, immunity, or vulnerability, but as defenses against a particular genre of magic. Something might only have a high wisdom save that makes it hard to charm or disable, but be vulnerable to damaging spells, whereas something with high dex and con saves is the opposite, and otherwise still a creature proficient in many saves might be better to damage with martials supported by casters. It would be interesting tho if there were more potential for an Illusioner to target Intelligence, a cunning Warlock whom preys on those with low Charisma, or a Druid that manipulates the environment to target Strength Also your voice is so pretty and you're very well spoken on the subject, definitely would love to see more similar D&D and Baldurs Gate videos from you!
@AuronCommander
@AuronCommander Ай бұрын
I actually broke their AI by using a forest dryad to create spiky terrain. So half the dudes were actually trying to attack me and the rest were clumped up a bit further away. I also sneak attacked them by attacking the displacer beast. I didn’t even know you could talk to these guys bc I just saw the beast, and assumed it was hostile bc of its appearance.
@stevebear6295
@stevebear6295 Ай бұрын
you can jump a gap on the path at the bottom of the stairs and then sneak up around him at the top , if done right you can sneak attack kill him with a full surprise on all of them giving you 1 full turn to burn his whole HP down by apha striking him , before he tosses the bombs, everyone after that can be slowly mopped up in how you want
@communistcrooner
@communistcrooner Ай бұрын
On the saving throws, the reason that dex, wis, and con are overrepresented from what I can tell is that it seems to be a hold over from other games and earlier editions of dnd that only have 3 types of saving throws. Typically the three are some variation on reflex(dex), constitution, and willpower(wisdom)
@communistcrooner
@communistcrooner Ай бұрын
there are also more spells in dnd that care about int in dnd that weren’t adapted from BG
@PVPTawa
@PVPTawa Ай бұрын
Dex (Reflex), Con (Fortitude) and Wis (Will) are the main saving throws even outside of spellcasting and they were also the only saving throws in 3e. When someone is grabbing the resilient feat, one of these is likely the reason, each class gets at least 1 of these 3 at lvl1. Casters tend to go for Resilient Constitution for their concentration, other classes either go for Wisdom if they don't want to get controlled or Dexterity if they think they'll be targeted by a lot of area of effect abilities or traps. Strength is probably the most commonly used saving throw of the others, because you use it to resist pulls, pushes or any kind of force being applied onto you. Intelligence is generally reserved for psychic powers, magic abilities that are a different system than spellcasting (illithids or mindflayers use these). They've been introducing more psychic themed spells into the game so there are more Int saves.
@andrewsad1
@andrewsad1 Ай бұрын
He's definitely overtuned for this fight. I think it's because he's tuned for both the fight with Raphael later on, as well as the other possible fight later than that. He has to be strong enough to not just take up space near 12th level players, but weak enough for a group of 7th level players to kill him, and they erred on the side of the former. I feel really lucky that the face of our party was a paladin who hated Raphael more than Yurgir. After all, we know there's an afterlife-Yurgir kills, but Raphael does worse than killing, and by now he's been in contact with Mol. It was worth making a temporary truce with Yurgir in exchange for his help against Raphael (as well as you-know-what). There was a nice bit of irony, with our paladin and Yurgir sharing a sort of mutual respect by the end, in a sort of "I will kill you the next time I see you" and "I look forward seeing you try" kind of way
@TheSuperGamer991
@TheSuperGamer991 Ай бұрын
I did this fight so many times, starting every encounter with banishing the demon. Resetting when he doesn't get banished
@tannerbidish796
@tannerbidish796 Ай бұрын
I'm here to be a voice in the void shouting back. I'm sure it's been said already, but there is a dialog route where you can pass a check and talk Yurig into offing himself. You don't have to do this fight at all and you still get all the rewards.
@mariavivian4703
@mariavivian4703 Ай бұрын
I personally see it not as a roadblock because you aren't strong enough but rather a chance to look into the future and see how things might turn up and how you could plan accordingly. You could put your most charismatic and smart character forward and attempt to talk your way out of the encounter instead so you can reconvene with your party. You can put your most maneurvarable character forward and allow the rest of the party to sneak up on Yurgir. I personally really like Yurgir, and I like helping him out. The path to saving him is actually so much easier than it is to kill him.
@Duplacorn
@Duplacorn Ай бұрын
I love yurgir purely because of how he acts after recruiting him in the house of hope
@Golmov_the_Wretched
@Golmov_the_Wretched Ай бұрын
I'm on my very first playthrough of BG3 now, and I weirdly found this fight super straightforward. I'd given my druid main character the alertness feat, which is great in the TTRPG, but even better in BG3 due to the 1D4 initiative. I opened with Sleet Storm. Yurgir didn't get a chance to bomb me until the final round of combat (which admittedly hurt). I had no idea what he could do, so watching this video makes me feel like I dodged a bullet!
@boianko
@boianko Ай бұрын
I never had too much trouble with this guy. It was clearly a terrible idea to walk my entire party into a giant ambush. Even when I did speak with him I would have some of my characters in the back and spread out to avoid his AoE and minions. The easiest way to fight him for me was just going behind him and pushing him off the edge he's standing on. Without the high ground he can't really detonate his bombs in time, which lets you just chuck them either back at him, or at his minions.
@synthster7416
@synthster7416 Ай бұрын
I've played this game for 800 hours and completed HM twice. This is definitely a risky fight but even in my absolute first try in Balanced, I knew to not willingly walk into the ambush where everyone is higher ground. I've never fought Yurgir without using my movement in interesting ways. I've approached from the back, from the flank, split the party in many ways, kept running around, and when I did fight in the pit of the battle area, I made sure I had the movement to walk out of sight after my attack, luring them in one by one. This fight is amazing *because* it forces you to think strategically, there is no way to brute force through it. And there are TONS of ways to solve it. It's one of my favourite fights and not bad design imo. Though I like you and your videos a lot!!
@mooduck101
@mooduck101 23 күн бұрын
The reason the saving throw distribution is so distorted that previous editions of DnD used 3 special saving throw stats: reflex, fortitude, and will. In DnD 5e they split those up into the normal 6 stats, which favored Dex, Con, and Wis. Also, I feel like one lesson the game has taught by this point is don’t group your allies super close together, or you’re gonna get fucked by aoe effects. That first turn is a lot less distressing if only one party member goes down instead of all of them
@comradeanthony4120
@comradeanthony4120 Ай бұрын
And the most OP way to kill him is to just be real good at talking.
@MrOliverdunn
@MrOliverdunn Ай бұрын
I'm surprised you didn't mention gaining the displacer beast as an ally for the fight, makes things much easier and is arguably the most "good" ending the fight can have. Also another thing you can do to make things much easier is trigger the fight with a familiar from a great distance away, this causes the merregons to get confused and bunched up on each other. Meaning it's a slow trickle of enemies towards you. Yurgir's methods are all about fighting an unfair fight. His bombs, Invisibility, and the way he's positioned for an ambush. I'd say this fight is a good example of a fight that is very punishing to just walk into, but there are myriad ways of lessening that difficulty should be hard to miss; just starting the fight with all 4 characters spread out makes a huge difference, as you no longer need to do everything in 1 action.
@prismadreams
@prismadreams Ай бұрын
i absolutely love some of your humorous ways to describe things here, it humors me immensely. i also enjoy your analysis and will have to send this to a friend of mine who loves d&d theorycrafting. and i'll have to give this fight a try on tactician when i get there again - my two playthroughs so far were a very messy fight where i attacked Nessa while still on the stairs and accidentally provoked the entire fight in a strange spot, had to reload a few mid-battle saves and spammed ice storm. and then my bardlock durge with the audacity to walk in and say "lmao just kill your minions, then your cat, then yourself ✨️" and it worked. talking enemies to death with them in act 2 entertained me immensely
@Evergreen_Wizard
@Evergreen_Wizard Ай бұрын
I mostly avoided the TPK bomb issue by starting the fight with all of my party members spread out in different corners.
@Geeler
@Geeler 8 ай бұрын
Finally, a KZbinr who doesn't use a controller to play BG3
@EmilyMemily-it3xp
@EmilyMemily-it3xp Ай бұрын
14:45 Huh. I knew intelligence was RARE but GOD DAMN. Phantasmal force go brrrrr
@Luna19912
@Luna19912 Ай бұрын
I ended up winning this fight with a 1v1 between Astarion and a single Merregon, with everyone's favorite vampire twink finally winning at 7 hit points
@nathanvilla2786
@nathanvilla2786 Ай бұрын
Whats funny is while this fight is difficult i love it so much because its one of the fights in act 2 where you can talk him to death
@redgehenna4493
@redgehenna4493 Ай бұрын
good video i agree with everything you said, BUT. i actually had a better time with the fight by getting on the side stairs and just holding down that position. my healers could stay behind cover around the corner while my offensive casters/shooters could throw their spells out and get behind cover all the same. yes, someone gets blown up at the start of the fight, but since my healers are (mostly) safe from the explosion i only lose one turn before yurgir and the merogons try to approach from low ground and pile in where it's easier to shoot at them.
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