An MLB Hitter’s Worst Nightmare

[@bradyanderson993]

As a Mariners fan, it pains me that I knew exactly what stadium he was talking about before even clicking on the video.

[@SuperSonic-EthanDial]

I saw the roof and title.

[@jasonmacfarlund2703]

But it makes Ichiro's single season hit record that much more impressive

[@nacoran]

Lean into it. Although they never made it over the hump the Astros regularly fielded really good teams back in the Astrodome. They focused on building a team on speed and pitching. If you have a bad batters' eye, get pitchers with good movement who throw strikes.

[@chrisschaeffer9661]

Damn it Mariners. Still doesn't explain the 80s away? All the Bull Pen that Screwed up the 90s!! But that Big of a Dud Stadium? Depressing Grunge Inspiring Dreary NW Rainy crap is Tha?!!

[@Hacksaw_HIM_Thuggin]

Was it not the thumbnail?

[@TheTrueDemand]

This just makes Ichirio's stats even more insane since he was doing it mostly in T-Mobile Park.

[@UrBeat06]

Seems to me this is exactly what they need, guys that hit for average and/or get on base. Arraez would be fine in this park, for example.

[@chrislewis5069]

I respect your love for ichiro and the mariners but I would encourage you to think of it as hitting for distance is hard in Seattle but hitting line drives and hard ground balls is still very attainable. I believe that's why ichiro was able to thrive is he wasn't trying to hit for distance. Does that make sense?

[@RobL350]

Safeco* It was called safeco back then.

[@anonymoususer3012]

Ichiro was a high average/low power hitter. That playstyle is almost immune to park factor

[@jollyredjoker7682]

​@@UrBeat06 This would require moving the fences back again. Because the outfield is so small today, what used to be bloop singles are now line-outs. We let Adam Frazier walk in 2023 for a reason

[@sambarber9294]

Physicist here. As others have mentioned, T-Mobile park is open air, and I would wager that this has more to do with the K% here than any other factor. This air (as you say in the video) is cool, dense, and more heavily saturated with water. This causes more friction on the seams of the baseball as it moves through the air, making pitches break more. Basically, stuff is nastier here. The graph showing center field distance, IMO, is more correlation than causation. Note the two low outliers on the graph are Coors Field and Kauffman, both of which are at considerable altitude and are exposed to a much drier continental airmass. These two factors lower the drag on the baseball, increasing the distance that balls can travel in the air and decreasing friction induced break on pitches. This is one of the main reasons why pitchers struggle so much in these parks, Coors in particular. Check out a graph of humidity/dew point vs K% and I bet you'd find a correlation. Thanks for the interesting video!

[@dustykh]

Kaufmanns altitude doesn't explain much, as it is at a similar or lower altitude to fields in Minneapolis, Atlanta, and Arizona which show different results.

[@sambarber9294]

@@dustykh I doubled checked, and you are right, Kauffman isn't as high as I thought. But, to play devils advocate, lets talk about the different airmasses those stadiums are exposed to. Minneapolis is colder (i.e. denser air), Atlanta is humid, and Arizona is climate controlled most of the summer. Once again I am guessing here, but I bet the humidity/dew point/both in KC is lower on average than those other stadiums, causing less drag on the baseball.

[@samiam619]

@@sambarber9294 As far as I’m concerned, ANYTHING that happens at Coors Field should NOT be included in any record book, good or bad. Didn’t one of their Managers quit after one year because he said it didn’t qualify as Baseball? Jim somebody. Possibly Leyland?

[@cmk921]

I was going to say something similar, if we look at TMP as the “anti Coors Field” because of atmospherics.

[@ChristopherM720]

What's interesting is how players react to leaving Coors/TMobile. For players, especially Rockies, the response after leaving requires at least 3 games to react to normal pitches. It's the Coors effect no one talks about. To say nothing of the exhaustion effect on players as high altitude and low O2, causes longer healing/rest period. Thankfully the Mariners don't have that. But the key is, places like Seattle and Colorado become significant factors in teams performance. That makes baseball more interesting than say basketball where location is irrelevant. But if you are a fan of these teams it sort of sucks.

[@LiNK52500]

This makes 2022 ALDS Game 3 between Houston and Seattle make so much more sense. 18 innings and only one run was scored. 17 innings without a run is a postseason record.

[@Thelius42]

Watching all the mariner strikeouts made me think I was watching a typical game live.....

[@asdfsdfawefssfdfdfd]

the worst in the league ratings moving up to 4th worst was brutal

[@Seatownrandom]

Having played there in high school, the batters eye just makes you feel so much closer, for me personally the gigantic video screen that was showing a live feed of my at-bat over the pitcher’s shoulder was what did me in.😅

[@GYMSHIT]

You must have been a decent high school player to have played there

[@Seatownrandom]

@@GYMSHIT decent on a good day😂 but I appreciate you! It’s a really cool program that Seattle Metro league does every year that lets local highschoolers play every summer, I was lucky enough to do it three times.

[@Noob_Crew_Sledders]

@@GYMSHIT Its a local fundraiser they do for most of the high schools, pitched off that mound senior year and turning around to see yourself on the big screen was definitely an interesting feeling. I remember standing up there trying to visualize what it would be like with everyone screaming "K" during the felix era. would be insane with a full stadium screaming. That mound is also an absolute rock.

[@Akkbar21]

Gimme a break. Nothing hard about hitting at safeco compared to anywhere else. Mariners just can’t hit and are making excuses.

[@chrisschaeffer9661]

​@@Akkbar21. As a Fan since 79 I concur.

[@rdrisms]

well, the thing about t-mobile's roof is that it's just for rain. the stadium doesn't get enclosed when the roof is used, so unlike marlins' ballpark, there's no glass panes that close or anything. that means roof or no roof, air temperature, humidity, moisture, etc. are the same. all this is mostly moot anyway since they rarely close it lol

[@User31129]

Yep, at least last I checked, this stadium and a stadium in Japan are the only two in the world that have a roof simply for rain coverage, and regardless when the roof is closed, you still have ambient temperature. Edit: and Sofi Stadium in LA.

[@BudFuddlacker]

12:41 The current batter’s eye at T-Mobile Park is not painted black…..the ‘black’ is a collection of light-absorbing panels (a product used by NASA) that helps reduce glare….installed in 2003.

[@jstreimikes]

No analysis of vertical and horizontal break on pitches thrown at Safeco vs. other parks? The most obvious possible answer to this whole mystery is that breaking stuff works better at Safeco vs. parks like Colorado. Nastier sliders mean more strike outs, lower OPS for hitters, and better WHIP/ERA for pitchers. In the Kingdome era, the park was smaller, and the temperature/humidity was controlled in a fully indoor environment. Both those factors lead to increased offense. And the closer batter's eye didn't seem to bother anyone at the Kingdome. The batter's eye distance argument seems like nonsense. I don't think eyeballs focusing at 60' away have any real difference in how much detail they take in from something 410 feet or 430 feet away. The angle or the glare might be significant though.

[@jayfrancois2453]

I was thinking that about the pitches as well. Thicker air means more drag on a ball, whether it's hit or thrown. My pea-brain tells me this should mean more overall movement on pitches.

[@lukasuntersteiner8780]

100%

[@dwaneanderson8039]

And if you look at the chart at 11:00, you can see that T Mobile Park's distance is pretty much right in the middle of the pack.

[@lukasuntersteiner8780]

@@dwaneanderson8039 yeah the whole distance argument makes no sense whatsoever

[@snarkybark]

What about the height of the wall relative to the batter's eye? The wall occludes the batter's eye, so if the pitch dips below that level it loses the benefit of the back drop. The angle of the outfield wall then results in that happening at different heights across the plate. This would result in a deeper outfield helping as well, at least for the same height wall

[@CJStew06]

It's such a nice stadium to visit from a fan's perspective. I remember going several times in the early 2000s era of Mariners baseball and it was an electric pregame, game, and postgame atmosphere.

[@BrianKilner]

As a lifelong Mariners fan this info makes sense and is so disheartening. You didn't need to have 100 videos of Mariners striking out. It hurts so bad! Is there any wonder we had a 20+ year post season drought.

[@waxknucklebearingjuice5592]

It still doesn't really explain the insanely high k rate... and it's not even necessarily bad chases , they just swing and miss...

[@jonathanfoutz8931]

Having Mike Zunino as a catcher in there didn’t help either.

[@plasmakitten4261]

This can't explain missing the postseason tho, not when it benefits the pitchers as much as it hurts the hitters. yall get unheard of pitching numbers at home.

[@BrianKilner]

@@plasmakitten4261 I would imagine that all of the practice and 81 games in this environment, the hitters get used to seeing the ball move in a certain way. Then when on the road anywhere else it's that much more difficult to calibrate the eye. Yes, the pitchers get the advantage at home, but the batters struggle all season long constantly having to adjust. This is on top of our team traveling significantly more than any other team in the league due to geographically being farther away from all of the other teams, which also has to take a toll.

[@legoindianajones9736]

​@waxknucklebearingjuice5592 as someone who watched every game and the play by play on the MLB it is a problem of swinging at bad pitches the amount of times I've seen our hitters swing a pitches a whole ass foot outside the strike zone is ridiculous

[@simianlife5949]

Isn't it interesting that Nelson Cruz had his two best home run years in Seattle? He actually hit more in 4 years in Seattle than he did in 8 years in the much more hitter-friendly Texas. In fact he played in 19 seasons and hit over 35% of his 464 HRs in his four Mariner seasons. And in 2018 he hit 21 HRs at T-Moblie and 16 on the road. He seems to be the only guy who liked hitting there.

[@LJSJIUJITSU]

Nelson truly took Safeco and put it into submission.

[@GingerCulture]

He actually was quoted as saying he loved Safeco's batter's eye.

[@kevinbraden798]

Outliner...there is always a few, but not the norm as we are still the only team never make a world series appearance.

[@stich21]

that speaks to how roided up he was then.

[@kurtbradwill]

I thought for sure Nelly would hit one out of Safeco....

[@berjonah110]

This is the first time I've seen a sports statistics video that actually included the p-value on their trend lines. Love to see it!

[@1981ASURay]

But not the correct interpretation of the p-value, unfortunately.

[@danielmann6772]

One factor you failed to mention is that even though T-Mobile Park has a retractable roof, it is still an open-air stadium. When the weather dictates the roof to be closed, it is still filled with cold, marine air that permeates the stadium, which could allow for the increase in ball movement. Other stadiums with roofs (retractable or not) are sealed off from the outside and are temperature controlled, Seattle is not. If it is 48° F outside at first pitch, it's 48° (maybe slightly warmer because of the roof and people, but not much) inside T-Mobile Park. But how can one quantify such factors?

[@Jukeboxster]

I was coming to say this. The roof is much more like a canopy, or an umbrella. Wind and temperature still affect the game. I remember being there opening day maybe 15 years ago and it was 40 degrees outside, and that's what it was in the stadium, shivering our asses off.

[@stiffjalopy4189]

I remember an opening day maybe 10 years ago, roof closed, but big wet snowflakes swirling in.

[@DiscGolfLeagueMVP]

You could look at horizontal and vertical break on pitches to see if there's a difference between there and other parks maybe?

[@jkd3945]

Retractable roof stadiums in Arizona, Texas and Florida are closed the majority of the time because of the hot and/or humid summers in those states. They are also sealed up when closed to keep in the AC.

[@stiffjalopy4189]

@@jkd3945 and I’d bet their conditioned air is similar to a Seattle summer. Low 70s, not too humid.

[@Dpmt]

As a Mariners fan, I’ve heard that when the wind comes in from the north through the gap between the roof and the field that it depresses the ball and turns home runs into outs. Sounds like we need to fix the slant on the batters eye too.

[@N_g_er]

That's racist against Asians 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@N_g_er]

You can't call them that anymore lol

[@TheFederalRetard]

Yup we get a cold north wind starting in the spring lasting all summer till it gets cold again. That north wind is cold mountain and artic air. It creates upwelling in the ocean where it brings the colder water from below to the surface as well. Cold means more oxygen is present and that's why marine life is bigger in colder waters and you get little tropical reef fish in the sun.

[@alexholden8074]

Couple things I would have been interested in hearing about: Statcast's home run tracker vs. other parks (helping to explain the marine layer), and why certain high caliber hitters (e.g. Nelson Cruz, his statistically best season's were with the Mariners) didn't have issues hitting in Tmo

[@tuckerprice9663]

I am suspicious of the whole "marine layer" hypothesis. Despite our reputation for rain, Seattle summers are far drier than most cities. We are also further from the ocean than many other MLB teams and there are many other teams that play close to large bodies of water. White Sox, Cubs, Brewers are all close to Lake Michigan, Giants and As are right on the Pacific/San Francisco Bay, Dodgers and Angels are within 10 miles of the Pacific, Red Sox are 5 miles from the Atlantic

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

@@tuckerprice9663California Marine air is WARM. Washington Marine air is COLD. Even if it’s not rainy, there is still air coming off the port during the summer that is colder than say SF or LA where the water is warmer (it’s why pacific hurricanes, while rare, are more likely to hit California)

[@stephenhouse5129]

Air density, elevation and humidity. The ball breaks and moves more, more strikeouts. My father pitched pro in Denver and said his slider broke way less. Less movement on his fastball also. Denver and Seattle are at opposite ends of this issue hence the statistics to back it up. The roof closes in Seattle but is open on the sides. Air conditioning is a dehumidifier, they don’t have it.

[@tonyleukering8832]

Thanks for getting that right. It seems most everyone has forgotten that altitude and elevation are NOT interchangeable words, instead meaning VERY different things. The problem seems most severe in Colorado... which should know better. Standing on a certain step at the state capitol, one is at 5280 feet elevation... and 0 feet altitude.

[@spookyshark632]

Denver is way more of an outlier than Seattle. There's a ton of teams that play in humid places at right around sea level.

[@unappealingundesirable2826]

I was born in Seattle in 1973, where I grew up. Japanese-American and male. From my birth year, you know that I spent my youth watching games in the Kingdome, a hitters park, if there ever was one. Here's the problem with T-Mobile Park: The WIND blows to the East, and that's why the ball sails to right field, but "dies in the air, in left field." That's why right-handed power hitters "go to T-Mobile Park, to die." Home plate is in the Southwest corner of the stadium. If they could do it all over, they should rotate the stadium 90 degrees, and put home plate in the NORTHWEST corner. That way, right-handed hitters would hit WITH the wind, to the East. Here's how real that marine layer is: My mother is from Japan (my father was third generation). Flying TO Japan takes 10 hours from Seattle. Flying BACK to Seattle from Japan takes 9 hours. That's because of the WIND. It's real.

[@richardgadberry8398]

I miss the Kingdome.

[@bp717]

@@unappealingundesirable2826 watching fly balls in Seattle, it’s like a witch comes down out of the sky and slaps the ball down before they can go out. Nope, not today, sucker. Not March, not April, not May, and not even June really.

[@unappealingundesirable2826]

@@richardgadberry8398 Richard, remember the "Diamond Vision Screen?" I remember at Mariners game, there was a very nice African-American gentleman with glasses, who would sell those chocolate Dixie Cups! "Chocolate Ice Cream," he would call out. One game, after 2-3 innings, I saw him with an empty crate (after he had a full crate earlier). I gasped, "You sold all of those?!" He said, "Sure did!" As much of a dump as the Kingdome was, there ARE great memories!

[@richardgadberry8398]

@@unappealingundesirable2826 God, those were good times.

[@professorclapshot1106]

​@@richardgadberry8398Imagine that, the old Jamie Moyer changeup. Gonna swing at it?

[@craigwheeler4760]

0:37 -- YES IT CAN!!!! PROOF: Adrian Beltre, a HOF 1st ballot 3rd baseman, hit only 20 HR a season when he played in Seattle. Once he got to Texas Rangers, he started hitting 30+ per season. AND with the dodgers before he signed, he was easily a 30 HR guy. That Stadium took at least 8 HR per season away from Beltre alone.

[@jedvlds7976]

Yeah he hit 48 a year before joining the Mariners.

[@BrianGarcia711NY]

I would love to see how insane Beltre’s career numbers would have been without that five year drought in Seattle. Maybe we all would have acknowledged he was on an obvious HOF track much earlier in his career. And then consider that he STILL wound up with 93 WAR, almost 500 dingers and 3200 hits, and didn’t even play past age 39. Just crazy. Also, makes you reconsider Ken Griffey Jr. His tenure in Cincinatti always felt like such a disappointment after his prime years in Seattle, but maybe if he stayed there his counting numbers would have taken a much bigger hit.

[@Cs-dt7eh]

Nelson Cruz had his two best homerun seasons in Seattle. Better than the 8 years in Texas lol

[@MarloSoBalJr]

I think wind currents play an even bigger factor for batters in certain stadiums, such as T-Mobile Park. It's like a wind tunnel in full-effect with easterly currents trapped between the Cascades (east) and woodlands along the Puget Sound (west), as well as the downtown skyline (north). If you piece all of that together, the winds are literally blowing against the batters and funneling southwards. That's why every homer hit "due north" drops like a pebble at that 401' warning track. A pitchers dream cos they can put less effort into their rotation by letting nature carry the ball, but Mariners' hitters need to strategically place the ball to the corners away from those currents

[@Inquisitor6321]

I remember the year that stadium opened, when Ken Griffey Jr. first did batting practice in that stadium, he immediately called his agent and told him "Get me the hell out of here."

[@christopherdematteo8645]

The hitters background is not only two small it's not high enough. Even if you play MLB The Show, any tall picture who comes over the top in his wind up is almost unhitable. You can't see the ball coming at you until it's too late.

[@TheDevilinThePaleMoonlight]

As someone who played at a high level and played in Seattle and Tacoma my entire life (college included) except when traveling, im gonna expand on the amazing research done in this video. My curveball and knuckleball always seemed to break more and have much more movement at home then they did in different states. I always chaulked it up to home field advantage, environmental familiarity, and or mound comfortability without ever taking into consideration that most of the ballparks I played at were close to the marine harbors just like Tmoble park which is just a mile or so from the Puget Sound. Im willing to bet tho that it's the combination of the batters eye and the dense marine air that has the most effect on hitters. One of the most important factors in hitting is the speed at which u can gauge the spin rate and angle on the pitch out of the hand and quickly determine what kind of pitch is being thrown. If a pitchers pitches are able to gain even a fraction of spin rate (added movement) due to the dense marine air from the effect it has on the seams of the ball plus the hitters ability to make contact is diminished even further by a bad batters eye on the field (even by very small amount), the two variables on their own may not be huge factors but when added together it could be a devastating combination of bad pitch/angle recognition and extra pitch movement. It's far more unlikely that only one variable could have such a noticeable negative effect on hitting in just the one ballpark bc with the amount of reps Home hitters would get in a season, if it were simply just one thing preventing them from making contact, adjustments would be much easier to make and home hitters wouldnt struggle at nearly the same rate as the away teams. BUT, a combination of these variables, however, may easily negatively affect too much of what it takes to make consistent contact in today's game. Just my 2 pennies tho.

[@greghmn]

One potential thing to consider with the higher strikeout rate is the bat speed on swings and misses. It could be that the conditions that kill so many would-be homers (the combo of the weather and larger dimensions, especially in the power alleys) cause hitters to swing harder, in turn leading to issues with control. The park's hostility toward slugging was one of the reasons Ken Griffey Jr. left, and I can't imagine he's the only player who either wanted to leave or else didn't want to play there in the first place because of it.

[@piercemacguire7754]

Excellent video. I’m not even that much of a baseball fan, but your crisp delivery and thorough analysis has earned you my subscription.

[@AndyZach]

I remember old Cleveland Stadium in the afternoon/evening the sun would set behind the batter. The shadow from the stands would be halfway to the mound. The hitter would see the ball until it hit the shadow, and then it'd disappear. It made it easier to close out games if you were ahead, and harder to come back.

[@thavionhawkmkii4509]

Ken Griffey Jr. hated T-Mobile Park because being open air unlike the King Dome, he wasn't getting the same range with his home runs.

[@samiam619]

Junior was a cry baby…

[@thelonewolf7443]

Well he WAS playing for the Seattle Mariners, the worst franchise in MLB History and wasn’t respected by the higher-ups + other past players felt that as well.

[@erwinrommel839]

It had more to do with who hit behind him. Griffey had a large strike zone. When Edgar hit behind him, he could be selective as all pitcher knew that when he walked, Edgar could hit him to 3rd or Home. Griffey knew that also so he was more selective then. When he came back as a M, there was no .300 hitter behind him, so pitchers could induce more bad swings. If you pull statistical data and correlate it with who was behind him, it comes out.

[@BudFuddlacker]

In their last 307 games, the Mariners have struck out 3,096 times……let that sink in

[@waxknucklebearingjuice5592]

It's so bad.... they would be a contentious team if the didn't strike out constantly.

[@brineyswindowcleaning4195]

@@BudFuddlacker woah. Sank in.

[@brineyswindowcleaning4195]

Hard to win when you have 17 outs a game to work with....

[@anonymouscommenter7689]

That's over 10/game!

[@kanpoe7043]

And none of that is due to the park. Look at the offensive numbers since Servais was fired and Edgar Martinez took over as hitting coach. First in multiple categories.

[@10Peter25]

One possible factor this video didn't cover, though it did address altitude: the Magnus Effect on pitches that makes fastballs appear to rise and breaking balls break. The Magnus Effect is more pronounced in dense, humid sea-level air than in less dense, drier mountain air. This means that pitches with the same spin rate at near-sea-level T-Mobile Park will have more movement than at mile-high Coors Field. More pitch movement means both more called strikes on deceptive pitches and more swings and misses; thus, more strikeouts. This difference in the Magnus Effect may be worth investigating as a possible reason why T-Mobile Park has such a high strikeout rate while Coors Field has one of the lowest strikeout rates despite its below-average visibility at the plate.

[@coachmullen1]

I'd say you have fancy stats that are factors for home run hitters, but that's why the Mariners should stop trying to acquire home run dependent players. Victor Robles is hitting .325 since he joined the Mariners. He's never had that kind of success before coming to Seattle. He's stealing bases very effectively. He's been a perfect leadoff hitter... and yet the Mariners insisted on reinserting JP Crawford for a few weeks, despite his .200 average. The sample size is only 200 at-bats, but Robles isn't trying to hit home runs. He's being a good hitter... like Ichiro. The game has tilted too far away from quality hitting mechanics and quality hitting results. People tell me batting average is a dying statistic. That's stupid. A .300 hitter with limited to modest power is more valuable to an offense than a .210 hitter with above average power. Both profiles have value in a lineup, but T-Mobile skews towards players who hit for higher average, get on base, and can steal and take extra bases. The flaw isn't the park. The park is what it is. The elements and the environment are what they are. Many of the players they've brought in simply don't fit the park. But there are certainly players wth profiles that do fit. Our front office just hasn't figured out the obvious solution. Batting average needs to make a comeback in Seattle.

[@grsafran]

The problem is they still have to play half of their games away. It is hard to win games with playing small ball that's why no other team does that.

[@aajas]

The hitters are clearly aware of the park factor and could be trying to swing for the fences, knowing that runs are at a premium - leading to higher strikeouts

[@bp717]

Another reason that trade acquisitions do poorly is they go there against their will, sent to US Siberia, travel the most, and know about this issue. Also the owner sucks and won’t invest in enough players for them to win or figure this out. Agents tell their players ownership is terrible. If an offensive player is traded there, they’re immediately depressed and join a toxic situation where everyone else is in the same boat. When they have a good player who is going well and a good clubhouse guy, they refuse to re-sign them (Santana, Suarez). Constantly dumping salary and acquiring reclamation projects, AAAA guys, etc and looking for magic, without considering the human aspect. Like Marco said, they’re playing fantasy baseball.

[@professorclapshot1106]

I wondered about that too, but if half the reason runs are at a premium is that fly balls are dying in the outfield, wouldn't it make more sense to just get on base?

[@ETV-vo7vz]

Great video! I like how you clearly explained the Batter's Eye theory. T-Mobile Park is a cool park but it's too bad there isn't a lot of offense.

[@MrLufugful]

Holy shit i saw the roof rolled back in the first image and i knew 😪😪

[@bugvswindshield]

I am a lifelong glutton for punishment. Yes I am a Mariners Fan. I own game worn jersey's, baseballs and more. I saw this thumb nail and knew exactly what is was. PS. Its still fun to watch the pitchers warm up just a few feet away

[@duncanfromunderthebridge]

No stadium design sorcery can explain the abominable state of the M’s offense 🫠

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

Ms offense has been off since TMobile Opened. The last offense the Ms had that lit the world on fire was 1997, back when they were still in the Kingdome. Even in 2001, Ichiro succeeded by being a slap hitter but outside of him, that 2001 team struggled by and large too (outside of guys like Edgar and Bone)

[@toadwiiremotewithwiimotion6247]

I took a look at the list of park factors and am surprised that Camden Yards is just 100. And as a Red Sox fan, not surprised Fenway is second behind Coors with 107

[@T_K7]

Obliterating the left field wall in Camden really kept the ball in, but goodness it looks ugly.

[@Ryan-cb1ei]

Yankee stadium is 99, yet people think it’s such a hitters park simply because of the short porch

[@bigprovos12]

@@Ryan-cb1eiI think that’s because center field balances it out a little bit, and it’s also basically at sea level, but for lefties like Soto I think the park factor is a little bit higher for him, even if you can’t quantify that

[@Ryan-cb1ei]

@@bigprovos12 Yeah center and left center are deep and neutralize hitting a bit. Funnily enough though, they have the numbers for Soto and he would have more homeruns outside of Yankees stadium. He’s not a huge pull hitter, and has had a fair amount of homeruns taken away in center/left center field.

[@10Peter25]

It surprises me that Wrigley Field's park factor has been about average. I guess it depends a lot on the prevailing weather patterns in the Windy City. When the wind's blowing out to center field at about 25 mph, no lead is safe, and you get games like the 23-21 slugfest many years ago against Mike Shmidt and the Phillies. When the wind's blowing in from center field at 25 mph, you can't even buy a home run, and you have to scratch and claw for every run you can get. What surprised me was that Game 3 of the 2016 World Series when the wind was blowing out to center field at about 20 mph, yet the final score ended up being 1-0, even though the Indians started the AL leader in home runs allowed.

[@Knapster4444]

I feel like I’ve seen about 60% of those strike outs from the mariners strike out montage in your video. I like the way you left it, the uncertainty of it all may be a factor in it as well. And that’s baseball ⚾️!

[@alispie]

Imagine Adrian Beltre's career if he never played in T-Mobile Park... I'm a Mariners fan, he's one of my favorite Mariners ever, so that kind of hurts me to say 😂

[@Pussaychop]

Hitter’s backdrop - only explanation that holds both home and away over time - if not the batter’s eye something adjacent to it or blah blah. Really, really impressive work here, cheers.

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

The batters eye has been an issue since the stadium opened. Even Bret Boone complained about it when they tried some weird honeycomb thing on it.

[@zacharyjeffares8158]

The Geography of the area, how the stadium is oriented, the climate, and the wonky batters eye are all contributors to the way games are played in Seattle. The humidity here in the Cascade Region is very high (because it’s a temperate rainforest). The Sailish sea and Georgia Straight contribute to this heavily being surrounded by the Costal Mountain Range. The sea winds are very well known in this area of the continent as being rather whippy. And then there’s the stadium: While being rather conventional in field shape, the architecture and orientation are unique for a west coast stadium. Even compared to other baseball stadiums in the same region

[@mattradach306]

The batters eye has been an issue since day one. When the Stadium first opened Alex Rodriguez lobbied to have the roof closed for all day games. Its not just the batters eye that's slanted its also the entire upper deck in center field and the massive scoreboard above it. Its been suggested that this leads to an overall disorientation and not feeling like you are lined up right with the pitcher. In order to try to reduce glare The batters eye slants form top to bottom as well. The top of the batters eye is about 3-4 feet closer to the plate than the bottom. They also tried using a honeycomb type material for the glare issue as well.

[@damianlillard06]

Really high quality video for only 8k subscribers nice work dude

[@mattwirkkala]

The really glaring factor that was not mentioned in all of this is that both teams have to play in the same ballpark for any given game. The fact that the(my!) Mariners couldn't hit their way out of a wet paper bag the past two/few (if I'm being generous) seasons and better their scheduled opponent on a given day has less to do with the venue than it does those individuals playing in it! Investigate the factors that are variable, not the constants! Full disclosure: I'm a PNW native and have been a local Mariners fan from day one, and will continue to be, regardless and evermore. #GoMariners!

[@bamesbamesbames]

Very well done video. The issue is all of the above. Hopefully the M's will realize the giant umbrella concept isn't cool anymore. This spring especially is going to be colder than average too so just watch.

[@CheapSeatsSports]

The air being colder and thicker in Seattle also allows a ball to grab the air better and could allow pitchers to get more motion on their pitches.

[@adiuntesserande6893]

You get fewer NFL quarterbacks from Cascadia than any other part of the US as well, and I think the marine layer may be in play there as well. (It might also have an effect on Ks, since the ball is going to move more differently in Cascadian air.) It might also be worth specifically comparing TMobile Park to Petco Park, since the Mariners and Padres share the same stadium during Spring Training. It could be worth looking into the two teams’ offensive production at home, as they share the same training environment.

[@BobWGABIAB]

As a Mariners fan it is really frustrating to see the park that Griffey built be where free agent hitters destroy their career. When they built the stadium they knew it was going to be pitcher friendly but I don't think they knew it was going to be this bad. The number of times I have seen a great player be signed, then suck, then have success again after they leave is way to often.

[@eauhomme]

Elevation, temperature, and humidity are probably your biggest contributors. T-Mobile Park sits only slightly above sea level, and the air is very dense, humid, and cold, especially in the spring and fall. Breaking balls, for one, break more during this time. As the humidity drops in the summer, the offense picks up. Contrast this with Colorado and Arizona--high altitude parks that run warmer and drier, with much thinner air. Breaking balls hardly move at all. San Francisco is the only park with an average temperature comparable to Seattle, and they play far more games in the daytime. Another quirk of Seattle that I think plays into it is that T-Mobile Park is open on the sides, so there are significant crosswinds. The prevailing wind is straight out to right, so balls hit to left are blown towards center. This gives lefties a bit of an advantage.

[@Geotpf]

I will certainly buy the explanation of the cold, wet weather plus the close, slanted batter's eye.

[@Redpoppy80]

Giants fan and as a team with almost as oppressive of a ball park, I feel your pain.

[@DavidTimmonsEsq]

Oracle is tied with PetCo Park with a 96 park factor, one rank higher than T-Mobile, but by a whopping 5 points. There is one park that's even worse. I'll leave that as a homework assignment, but you will be quite amused when you find out which.

[@Redpoppy80]

@@DavidTimmonsEsq You are right of course. I did my homework and the most pitcher leaning ballpark is Journey Bank which has an anti-Home Run factor that boggles my mind. Among the 30 MLB teams though Oracle Park has the lowest Home Run Park Rating which I suspected for almost 10 years since I have seen far too many would be HR's turn to easy flyouts. It is why I have learned how to hate Clayton Kershaw since he was such a flyout pitcher.

[@DavidTimmonsEsq]

@@Redpoppy80 Here's the real kicker about Journey Bank (BB&T Park) making the list: It's not even a big league park, it belongs to a low amateur team in Williamsport...and MLB uses it for a single yearly game, the Little League Classic. But because it's used for MLB at all, it gets a park factor rating!

[@thenotoriousyumz]

As someone who has sat behind home plate in this park, I've had trouble following pitches. Because the Mariner's logos on the back wall are right in line and the same shape and size as the ball as it comes at you. It's like suddenly having someone put two balls in play, but one is standing still. You don't have time to figure out which is the ball and adjust if the pitch is exactly in line with the logos. But I can't tell you if they have always been there or are still there.

[@jeffpowanda8821]

Teoscar Hernandez is a perfect example of a good hitter who struggled at T-Mobile Park and is hitting better in his current home field, Dodger Stadium. Your focus on batter's eye sounds sensible.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

I was gonna do this exact video this offseason, but you covered everything very well here. Great vid!

[@leoncchow]

All the ballparks on the pacific coast are affected by the marine layer. Homering in night games in Anaheim, Oakland, SD, etc. is significantly harder after dark. I think having seating in CF like this park has above the batter's eye can make seeing the ball harder.

[@doublestrokeroll]

I love it. This is what makes baseball great! Hitters parks, pitchers parks. Seattle shouldn't change a thing. And their stadium is awesome. Have always loved going to Seattle for games.

[@twostepz4982]

As a Mariner fan, I am not surprised. BUT, what I do want to see is how mariners like Ichiro make contact instead of home runs? That’s on every baseball field. Hitting home runs are for the easy fields. But, Ichiro cracked the code for the t mobile park.

[@thegrayman69]

The glare problem is not an issue - it’s painted with black paint that’s formulated to destroy sun glare Also the roof being closed is not “perfect conditions “ the outside temps stay the same so it can be literally freezing inside

[@bp717]

@@thegrayman69 it really is freezing sometimes. So miserable. I wonder if the bright LED lights they installed (one of or the first team to do it according to their stadium tour) have an effect on the glare reducing power of the panels. There always seems to be a hazy white film over the batter’s eye making it look more gray than black, When there is a lucky moment in time where there is a shadow covering part of it, you can really see the difference. Sun out, day game, shadow on batter’s eye = rare 😅

[@thegrayman69]

@@bp717 I was told the paint was developed by NASA . My dad was on the grounds crew at safeco for almost 10 years and that’s what they said about it . The glare used to be a problem until they used this new musou black or “vanta black”

[@yoyo_ma7677]

12:00 I always thought center field was supposed to be slanted. I guess not. Learned something new

[@ntrong32]

Once I noticed how close the bat is getting to the catcher's mask on the backswing, I can't stop flinching.

[@DonChicloso]

The fastest baseball pitch ever thrown was 105.8 miles per hour (mph) by Aroldis Chapman of the Cincinnati Reds on September 24, 2010. Chapman threw the pitch against the San Diego Padres at PETCO Park in San Diego, Californi

[@stevezeeTee]

You mentioned air density as it relates to how far a ball can be hit but we must also look at how a pitcher could use this to their advantage. Similar to how wings generate lift, when a ball spins, the Magnus effect does something like cause the side of the ball moving slower through the air to have a lower pressure which generates lift- or in this case, curve. If the air is more dense in Seattle, there would be more ball movement as the ball travels home. At a high elevation stadium (like Coors stadium), there is less air for the ball to catch as it spins creating less ball movement. Interesting data for sure 👍

[@JJR9000]

The issue with T-Mobile park is the Beer Garden is in direct sight line with the batters eye. I can only imagine how nice a cold Rainier sounds after swinging at a few strikes in the box.

[@jonasirw1]

Fascinating.. This might explain why the Mariners are fundamentally cursed no matter what they do. I wonder if T-Mobile parks architects and designers could have engineered around any of these issues.. If the roof is on perhaps they could artificially alter the atmospheric pressure, humidity etc..

[@satiric_]

8:02 Looks like Tropicana Field is gonna have an open roof for now...

[@ADRgman]

I was looking to see if anyone said this

[@SpidermanandJeny]

And here I thought ATT in SF had problems. ATT isn't causing guys to not make contact. Same issue with the park causing a lot of long fly ball outs though, even with the fences being brought in a few ago.

[@Tony-so1zl]

SF is just as bad

[@jamesnash6101]

Ok, these stats for the Mariners players can be attributed to their prior hitting coach and the style of their prior manager, Scott Servais. Who was their skipper from 2016 to 2024. Now they have Dan Wilson, as their new manager. And Edgar Martinez as the new hitting coach. What this will translate into is more runs per game.

[@ChairmanMeow1]

I knew it'd be Safeco Field like 2 seconds into the video

[@N_g_er]

What?

[@Gimmecanes]

🤓erm actually🤓🤓🤓it’s t-mobile park🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓 it’s not late 1999

[@resudeew2636]

@@Gimmecanes It will always be Safeco for us OG fans.

[@Optimistic_seattle_fan]

@@resudeew2636just say t mobile park. It’s been long enough. It’s like calling lumen field, qwest field

[@resudeew2636]

@@Optimistic_seattle_fan What I eat doesn't make you shit. Worry about yourself homie.

[@gorfi3]

Heard a lot about the glare on that slanted wall as well. It may be good to compare against day vs night games too since the lighting is different. Been to games and the eye is like pitch black and not glaring at all imo.

[@Hiise]

I saw the thumbnail and was like "damn that looks a hell of a lot like safeco field" and sure enough.

[@Darkrider12]

I'm a Mariners fan, and the stadium situation seems so bleak because on one hand, it's a gorgeous, clean, modern looking stadium that looks like it could've opened just 10 years ago, so in that sense it doesn't need to be replaced for many decades to come. But on the other hand since for some bizarre reason they opted for a retractable roof design that _only_ acts as a giant umbrella and doesn't in any way enclose the stadium from the sides or have any climate control features, the current extreme park factors are permanent and can't be changed. In other words if it were a truly enclosable stadium like Minute Maid Park, negative factors that affect hitting like the cold temperatures, marine layer, in-blowing wind, etc could be completely neutralized by just closing the damn roof, and the park without changing anything else would play _a ton_ more balanced. But instead all the things I listed above are permanent because of how basic and minimalistic our umbrella roof is, and nothing short of a new stadium that is fully enclosable will ever really get rid of those extreme park factors!

[@bigjared8946]

Why would we want an enclosed stadium in a place with arguably the best summer weather in the country?

[@fredyuen2489]

⁠@@bigjared8946the roof would be open during the summer or whenever the weather is good. But I don’t think that the marine layer and all of that are really much of an excuse because Oracle park is right next to the water in San Francisco and the Giants don’t seem to have that problem.

[@T_K7]

Sounds like you weren't around during the late Kingdome days. We had the opposite problem then (hitters mashing and pitchers getting obliterated) and they overcorrected with Safeco. Still doesn't excuse the current awful roster construction and hitting instruction though.

[@T_K7]

@@fredyuen2489 Marine layer was always either a meme or an excuse from the front office. Everyone acts like they play from November to April.

[@bklyntonw3187]

Hitting a Home Run at T-Mobile is not all that difficult once the weather gets warm, e.g., June through August. The right field porch, at least to my eyes, has never been all that difficult to mash over.

[@johncolosimo2283]

Humid air is less dense than dry air, so there’s actually less drag on a ball in a humid environment. It’s a bit counterintuitive. H2O is a lighter weight molecule than N2 or O2, so for the same total pressure, a higher water partial pressure results in a lower density.

[@scuzzjumper]

Simple fix: paint the top edge at an angle to offset the parallax there by creating an illusion of a level horizon.

[@KlydetheGlyde]

Great video. Both sides have to deal w a disadvantage but it seems Seattle can’t generate a strategy to take advantage. It’s like they go for home runs to compensate for run shortage and end up striking out more.

[@vincenthuying98]

Considering the Mariner stadium has been constructed with a half open roof, I can imagine that this type of structure can have an impact on batter’s performance. Such requires stronger construction to deal with wind sheer. On the other hand the level of wind sheer can seriously impact the wind patterns inside the stadium, doesn’t matter if the roof is on or off. Would be great if you’ll be able to look into this factor. Cheerio

[@TimothyAlleman]

And when this roof is closed, the stadium is not "domed" because it's more like a pavilion with a roof that an enclosed dome.

[@Thelius42]

Plenty of hitter have hit just fine at tmo. Ichiro, Nelson Cruz, seager, Cano etc. They brought tin the fences at one point. They've changed the hitters view multiple times to improve it over the years. I think a lot of the issue is mental

[@grsafran]

Mental? what are you talking about.the Data is real just like gravity, and the last I checked Gravity isnt mental.

[@Thelius42]

@@grsafran I'm saying a combination of real effects and reputation gets in players heads and makes them press. They are so worried about the marine layer they overswing and strike out more for example

[@Thelius42]

@@grsafran Also some hitters have been fine there. The 2001 Mariners, the first season the park was open. Edgar hit .306, Ichiro hit .360 and won the MVP. That was with the fences 10 feet further back than now and with thte batters eye the original green

[@al1976-v7m]

@@Thelius42 Ichiro was too good a hitter to care about these park factors.

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

@@Thelius42an extra 10 feet is a huge deal when talking about outfield space. That’s 10 less feet for those balls to drop because the OF players are playing in now because the fences are in. It was a lot easier to get singles and doubles before they pulled in the fences.

[@icetrey1000]

Very large foul territory is also important, it reduces offensive performance across the board by shortening plate appearances with foul outs. Note, too, that more foul outs indirectly increase pitcher endurance by reducing pitches per out--this enables the best pitchers in a roster to face more batters before being replaced. The trend in modern stadium design has been to move the seats down each foul line closer to the action, but T-Mobile wasn't built that way.

[@Sam-do3jr]

If the marine layer is a big factor, why aren’t parks like SF, OAK, and even SD effected as much? Maybe the combo of that & the slanted batters eye?

[@gradygridiron]

Remember that Seattle is 1000+ miles north of those stadiums. Even if it's a nice day, There's still a big difference in ocean temp. The puget sound is frigid in the summer here. Almost unswimmable.

[@grsafran]

my guess is it has to do with humidity.

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

Which of those cities is a rare pacific hurricane most likely to hit. Hint, it ISNT Seattle because the Ocean west of Washington feeding into Puget Sound is COLD. I went to the Pacific Ocean in July in Oregon and it was COLD (and it wasn’t even a particularly hot day either)

[@gradygridiron]

@@MatthewNugentmonty54 yeah, cold if you're a baby.

[@DeafeningCha]

All this makes their 2001 season even more incredible to me. At a time when every team was roided up (including themselves) they led the league in offense, and the outfield dimensions were even larger than today.

[@thickyjuice]

This reminds of the video (I believe Foolish Bailey put out) that questioned whether Ichiro was secretly a power hitter than chose to hit for average and understanding these park factors brings that into perspective

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

He always said he COULD hit home runs, he was just trying to get hits most of the time though.

[@GizmoBeach]

Citi Field wasn’t especially loved by pitchers or hitters due to its original bizarre outfeld dimensions, before being changed. And I certainly remember the story of Detroit officials watching Juan Gonzales smashing a ball in practice at Comerica Park, only to see it caught well before the warning track. “We just lost Juan.” Yup, after one 22 HR season.

[@Sinatraandfriends65]

This assessment is way over the top. I'm a Mariner season ticket holder. It's not the stadium or the marine layer. DiPoto put together a shit team!

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

It is definitely a factor in trying to get Free Agents to Seattle when STATCAST (which compares player performance at TMobile to non TMobile stadiums) says the stadium is below average in getting hits, runs, singles, doubles AND triples. It’s slightly below average in HRs and nearly 20 points above average in Ks. Adrian Beltre is the biggest example that something is off about Seattle. Numerous players are shit in Seattle then blossom outside of Seattle. Cruz and Cano are the only power exceptions. Ichiro was the only consistent slap hitter.

[@daifeichu]

I've heard Trevor Bauer talking about how much his pitches don't move in Mexico City because of it's altitude. The thinner air doesn't allow the ball to move around as much.

[@itz_gl1tch775]

im no mlb player but just a couple years ago i played in the park while in highschool im a switch hitter and i can actually confirm there is a difference between hitting from the 2. specifically right handed pitches which i face batting left wasnt too bad from from the right facing a lefty there is something a little akward seeing the shallow side of the eye with the small bit of sun glare. i dont think its as much to depth of the eye but rather the angle of the glare not just the eye maybe a look into number during roof open sunny days vs closed roof or clouded games would be worthwhile

[@ajm5007]

It would take more work than they're likely to put into it, but you could actually paint the eye in such a way as to make it APPEAR not slanted from home plate, and that might make a big difference. This would require a carefully painted gradient, though, which would require more effort to create and maintain than ANY ballpark is willing to put into the batters' eye. I'm sure the park's reputation AS a bad park for hitters is also making a difference. Hitting is a very mental part of the game. It requires incredible concentration, consistency, quick decision-making, and attention to detail, and if you KNOW you're in a park that's bad for hitters, that's going to have a negative effect on your mental game.

[@pitsmcgoo]

This has all the earmarkings of a paranormal curse.

[@MetalliKatman]

The only way to score runs consistently there is by manufacturing runs with base hits, walks, bunts, steals, and sacrifices, like the Mariners did in 2001, because the atmospheric conditions there kills fly balls, making home runs in most parks outs there.

[@sportsmaster1364]

The hitters who hit here for the Mariners have their names known for a reason. They're doing something many others have tried and failed to do successfully.

[@JonWebb-s3b]

Cold damp air makes it difficult to hit there. As an example, I remember Adrian Beltran had the worst years of his career in Seattle.

[@stephenspencer4672]

Coors Field is in Denver which is a mile above sea level. The force of gravity isn't quite as strong as it is at sea level. A hit ball will travel farther in slightly thinner air.

[@rick_fortune]

All I know is I hated trying to hit at T-Mobile due to the Batter's Eye being too short when playing MLB The Show. Occasional pitches from a taller pitcher with a more upright arm action were hard to see.

[@johnnyraven4217]

I live in Vancouver , BC, 2 hours north of Seattle via I-5 . I recall John Daly remarking during a golf tournament up here years ago during the summer his tee shots were significantly shorter than he hits typically . Like Seattle , the Vancouver area is very close to sea level with typically cool marine air. Is the air more dense resulting in more drag on the ball ? Plus, does latitude play a role at all? From my physics classes , earth’s gravity “g” is highest at the poles and lowest at the equator. I understand it’s cheaper to launch a rocket into space the closer to the equator you are. Which explains Cape Canaveral FL and launch sites for the European Space Agency. Seattle is one of the most northerly cities in MLB. Could that explain in part why the ball flies shorter at T Mobile Park? What if you combine both factors? And another thing - do hitting stats at T Mobile improve on a hot sunny day? Seattle can get pretty warm in July. Does the air temperature warm significantly at that time of year or is it kept down by a relentless breeze off the waters of Elliot Bay?

[@daveweiss5647]

Edgar and Ichiro amd Nelson Cruz thrived in Safeco/Tmobile... I am a long suffering casual Ms fan... god I wish we could just make the playoffs... just a solid run....

[@starwalk3r]

3 main factors to the decline of offense at T-Mobile Park (Seattle): 1. Visual slant to left field throws off depth perception. 2. Intensified marine layer in the air. 3. Optimal conditions for the pitcher.

[@Bigernmcrakn]

When you have the best pitching in the MLB and worst hitting these things happen.

[@1080p120hz]

They don’t have the best pitching, it’s not a coincidence their pitchers are a lot better at home than on the road. The pitchers are beneficiaries too.

[@absea7918]

Whenever I go to that Park, the other teams seem to do ok... The M's have a bad lineup - this year especially. Both teams (home and visitor) have the same conditions, so T-Mobile conditions should have an equal effect on both teams. The Mariners won 116 games in 2001, including 57 at that stadium, so it's very possible.

[@MatthewNugentmonty54]

Statcast disagrees with that. A game here or there sure. But over 81 games, T-Mobile is BELOW average (for both teams with how statcast calculates it) for hits, singles, doubles and triples. They are somewhat close to average in HRs, but still below average. The stadium is over 20 points above average in Ks though.

[@Darkrider12]

​@@MatthewNugentmonty54Correct. Also interesting to see that when they moved in the fences a decade ago, homeruns did go up, but doubles and triples also went down due to the smaller dimensions. So unfortunately the overall effect on offensive production didn't change much.

[@josephlambert8246]

Its the wind. Cheney Stadium in Tacoma, center field is 425 with a 29 ft wall and I've witnessed two players hit over it at least twice in the last few years. Balls routinely leave the park. TMobile is much closer to the water and the wind flows in and circulates in the stadium. If it had a tall glass wall like what is found in more modern retractable roof stadiums, I'd venture more balls would be leaving the park. The strike outs are attributed to the players, not the stadium.

[@BHFFS]

It blows my mind that Ichiro Suzuki hit better at home than on the road. And I still wonder if his insane stats would have been even better if he didn't play in Seattle.

[@geoffreylee5199]

The Mariners jack their prices when the Toronto Blue Jays are in town. They are assured of an almost sellout with people coming from Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton; more like a Jays home game. The clips shown are of good pitching, show bad hits instead!

[@nicolasbaker9601]

I agree that its messed up and they need to make it a dome. As far as Teo though, you could tell he didnt really care to try. He didnt wanna be traded there and it showed.