Djesse Volume 4: What Went Wrong?

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

Extended discussion on a livestream 48 hours after upload: kzbin.info/www/bejne/naTciGR_jbKGiZI

[@BrevityIsWit]

Kk lol

[@agustinrosaleschase]

I never comment on videos, but I am a fan jingumping into Jacob's music around the same time as you and I loved volume 4. I liked it because it paralleled the way my taste in music had changed over the same period. I started out being super into theory and complicated vertuosic playing and music academia. But it dropped just as I came to realize that although all that music stimulated me intellectually, it didn't really make me feel things effortlessly. A lot of more popular music I have heard did affect me immediately, and I realized some of that music continues to affect me after 50 listens. It's clear I was judging "popular" music because of social/cultural baggage from music academia. But at this point in my life I also realized I was an S shaped peg in a square hole when it comes to academia, and I was fully ready to disavow all of it. So hearing Jacob try music that is more immediately affecting and minimalist came just in time. I saw him play live very soon after it dropped, and after seeing it live I doubly understood what he was doing. Volume 4, more than the albums before it, was designed to be enjoyed in person and it was a spiritual experience. The reason so many old fans are disappointed is because yall expected something and he violated that expectation. But more than that yall didn't grow at the same pace he did. This reality is almost poetic however, because it truly mirror what makes Jacob so special: he is fundamentally all about switching it up, and he is also all about persuing his own journey without waiting for people to catch up. His most recent change is realising there is no hierarchy in music. He's realized that compromising on your taste to include the tastes of others can make things much more impactful. And he has finally made it to the minimalism side of maximalism. Hater's mistake is to think that him becoming more "popy" is a sell out move. It's not that shallow. Yall are shallow to think popular does not have a massive amount to offer.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

Interesting, I definitely was moved emotionally, and was "made to feel things effortlessly" by Jacob's music before vol3, in addition to being intellectually stimulated, so we differ there. For me if something sounds cheesy or messy its just impossible to take it seriously, even if I know at some level it is legitimately emotionally compelling music. I know that Witness Me is great for a lot of people but it just will never work for me I disagree that Jacob "grew" faster than us, I think in this context he "changed" more, but thats kind of trivial because his change was one of his entire life, whereas our change with respect to how we would perceive his music is only a smart part of our lives I also dont think being more poppy is in pursuit of money, I dont think he's "selling out", as I said in the video I think he did it to reach more people, and in part because of collaborating with pop musicians, but those causes go back and forth

[@agustinrosaleschase]

@@AndyChamberlainMusic So when i mean made to feel things effortlessly I mean it doesn't take 11 listens to feel like you've reached peek. You get it in 1 or 2. Although I still felt like it took more listens for Volume 4 than it does for a lot of more popular music. To me, I realized the peak I reached with a lot of popular songs was just as high if not higher than peeks I reached with a lot of the music that was glorified in academia, and required much less to understand to reach it. I can understand the point of I things sound cheesy or messy. I guess I have just switched my perspective now. Where I used to feel embaresed at even saying the lyrics of many popular songs now I embrase the emotional content they are conveying. Fair enough, although as someone who has always strived to understand and appreciate every genre, I always felt like lack of appreciate for something people love was a lack of empathy. So I think there is a lot of growth value to changing your perspectives musically. I do belive Jacob has out grown all of us in that regard. And it is no wonder based off of how he spends his time. Yeah, sell out was the wrong term. I don't belive he is motivated by being more palatable. I think he is motivated by making better music. And based off of interviews I've watched, I believe he sees music that bridges the gap between people as being better music. And I personally agree. The result is more accessible and no less complicated or compelling. I think that is just better music.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

@@agustinrosaleschase I see. To clarify on the multiple-listens thing, I definitely felt strong emotions on the first listens, in fact there were certain feelings that were only present or were strongest on first listenes, its just that over time as I got to know songs better they would grow on me in more ways. But its not like I felt little to nothing on the first go for most stuff. With The Love In My Heart is perhaps the most extreme in this regard so that being my example skewed things a bit

[@agustinrosaleschase]

P.S. I loved Witness me, even the record version, although I agree the live versions were better. Jacob is clearly very intentional. There is an added value and vibe even for drum machines and Shawn Mendes. Clearly he was not just making a Gospel song, he was making a Jacob gospel song. It's very simple and cleche, but I thought it was very effective. You just gotta take it on face value and accept the emotional content it's offering you. Every song in the album has a proper perspective and approach if you want to enjoy it fully, and every song requires thorough lack of judgement. You just gotta be able to take it in and feel it.

[@agustinrosaleschase]

@@AndyChamberlainMusic Fair enough, I had a similar experience listening to his earlier music. But what I experienced with select songs is a very emediate emotional pull that lasted the entire song. I get that more from certain very popular songs from different artists. Somtimes just one song from that artist. And I got that more from Volumes 3 and 4. It probably helps that I'm starting to really like R&B and Soul more lately. I guess it's not fair to say I had not experienced this before with more academic generes, like Jazz or classical But it's not nearly as frequent or effortless with most of the repertoire I had been exposed to . Especialy the stuff that was just more complicated or busy. Out of the hundreds of songs I was listening to and playing, maybe 5 or 8 or them had that quality of emediatly enthrawling and good all the way through. The other hundreds of songs were still good of course, but they were not as consistent or enthrawing. Or they took some effort or prior study to appreciate. I would say the ones the effect I'm looking for I simply amazing. so that's what I look for now. And I can find that in almost any genre.

[@mauhu]

nothing went wrong in the album, people just didn't like it and had to justify it by saying that it's because he uses too much theory. It's odd how people didn't just say it wasn't their style, but instead went out of their way to make their reason seem more profound.

[@KevinRandlesMusic]

Exactly! If it's not your thing, just say it's not your thing!

[@gellikelli1470]

Honestly, with hajanga, hideaway and some others, there is plenty of theory in those. I also kinda like little blue, but to be blunt, the rest of djesse feels like a distinct lack of heart and soul being put into the music. It seems like when you strip away the amount of theory that goes into the songs, the concepts start to ring hollow. Theory alone cannot carry songs by itself and this kind of proves that, while u can strip it down to "it's not my thing", there should be something to be said about the reaction to theory-heavy music that lacks a proper conceptual backing.

[@montyeyesclosed]

People are more than justified in saying WHY something is “not their thing”. If people think it’s soulless theory heavy music with little substance, then that’s their reason it’s not their thing. All power to you if you love all of Djesse Vol 4 though, i’m kinda jealous.

[@___xyz___]

well I would probably be just as careful claiming there weren't more profound arguments made as I would be to say any of jacob's albums simply... went wrong for starters, and to be fair, I think his pursuits are admirable for the most part. it's very hard to say he isn't a really good musician and that he's not doing the whole music industry a great service. to me it seemed obvious that he shifted attention from having fun trying out musical ideas to having fun trying out collaborative ideas. if there is one key takeaway from his work these past 3-4 years or so, it is that he has helped immensely to bring light to real life artistic collaboration, where the world at large is struggling to reconcile the physical with the virtual, the technical with the creative and the individual with the community that being said, there IS an argument to be made that the original quality of his works since the 2010s has fallen. I genuinely believe this, and I have otherwise no investment in whatever it is he has done or is doing these days. I believe he might even realise this himself! and it being a worthy trade-off because the things he seems to aspire to have changed to outside the compositional specifically. grander vision requires a greater scope. there is only so much you can cram into so little time, and it was starting to get late already. originally on his first three albums there was pretty good direction-beyond each song by itself, the whole album stayed quite consistent, and told a relatable and believable story through its music, lyrics, art and engagement with the audience-djesse vol 3 and 4 however both did not stay as consistent, as more and more (especially big-name) artists with a less grounded vision began contributing big to the music, and jacob clearly not taking the directive production lead, but letting his guest artists do the talking. which brings me to my second issue with jacob's recent work: he prefers to work with industry artists. this one might be controversial, "obviously the famous artists are famous because they are most talented and produce best results" I hear a lot of people say when I ask about this. but this idea is new and foreign to most musicians who followed jacob since he started. there are a lot of equally if not more talented artists than the ones he has worked with recently, who publish their work and engage in successful collaborations, but nonetheless are not famous... because of marketing. that _means_, as one would expect at this level of commercial success, that his music has been gradually more directed by marketing and engineered appeal. this I would very much argue is an absolutely fair criticism. where in the beginning jacob chose to produce music as an exercise to himself and to appeal to the individual music enthusiast, he has now chosen to appeal to the side of people that is enamored by the mainstream image of a rockstar, not a creative individual. although I will reserve myself with regards to whether it is deliberate or prescribed by publishers and managers or the like, it means that apart from the growth of his audience and his growth as a musician, the jacob that produces music today is creatively a different jacob from the one who produced music last decade. and he is skewed towards commercial success for better or for worse.

[@___xyz___]

sure you might call "selling out" not profoundly negative. after all, nobody is perfect. jacob has done (and continues to do) more positive for the industry than nearly every other musical artist ever. but it is a fact that jacob now (currently) produces predominantly pop music for radio and not innovative music for the history books. the verdict is out. ask anyone who hasn't heard him before. I've done the test. they'll quickly place him on a chart for you. [in my room]: "I haven't heard this before" and "that's odd". [djesse vol 4]: "[insert artist] is my favorite singer" and "this reminds me of [insert famous artist]" also let's just say it scores higher on the "is this ai" index

[@AlbumoftheWhenever]

I like Djesse Vol 4. I love how messy and contradictory is, how within its relative safeness it's a big swing. In my eyes it asks big questions about pop music and how we treat auteur theory within it. What do we do when the guy that can do anything he wants does this?

[@josh44026]

I don't like how it isn't coherent as a whole

[@SyoDraws]

I like that take 😊

[@FortisV]

​@@josh44026 Jacob's motto is to "embrace the nonsense, because sense is massively overrated." If you've attended or viewed any of his masterclasses, it seems like something he lives by in regards to musical pursuits

[@crystalmik8410]

I strongly agree with everything in this video. I remember listening to Djesse Vol.2 for the first time and being completely obsessed with it for the whole summer of 2019, listening to volume one and "in my room" since december 2018. Listening to Jacobs songs for the first time was one of the most beautiful things ever. While waiting for Djesse Vol.3, i remember being sooo excited listening to the snippets of his website, wondering how these "negative space" soundscapes would fit into a song, being obsessed with the beatsketches and then realizing that this album which has been said to "be electronic and weird, unleach high-level funk, be like the ideas that you come up between 4:53 till 7:07 am, when your brain goes nuts" is actually more r&b and pop than what he said it was. I mean there are still many songs on this album that match this description. But you could feel the, for JC listeners unknown and unexpected, poppy, mainstream undertone, like straight up using the I-V-VI-IV in "count the people". The cheesy lyrics also started to emerge. But to be hit with all of that in Djesse Vol.4 is hard to swallow. Honestly, only a box of stars part two gave me the same feelings as listening to his earlier albums. It's painfully disappointing that an artist who completely changed your perspective of music released songs such as "witness me", which i can't listen to without cringing.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

I do feel like there were some cheesy lyrics before volume 3 but we ignored it because the music was so incredibly good. But I do maintain that the amount of cheese increased with volumes 3 and 4

[@bryanleggo3489]

OMG what a dumb comment about Witness Me. JC has been gospel influenced from the start by Take 6. The Kimmel version with Tori Kelly is even better.

[@crystalmik8410]

@@bryanleggo3489 I really love gospel and I also like the gospel singers in this song. They're literally perfect. It's just that everything else in this song is so safe-going and boringly simple, very non-jacobean.

[@bryanleggo3489]

@@crystalmik8410 He does direct and simple all the time and why is that bad or boring? That's absurd. It's the vast majority of the singer/songwriter repertoire for decades. Whether Dylan or Webb, it's not about complexity or advanced harmonies or production.

[@justsomecontent5528]

Great video! For me I’ve loved him since “in my room” and his early KZbin career and he’s done very well at communicating a very complex language to many people. In my opinion Djesse Vol. 4 while having a lot of Bangers, lacks cohesion or rather doesn’t do a good job tying all the albums together. Djesse 1-3 did amazing jobs of having the vibe he said he wanted them to be. And expecting him to complete the Herculean task of doing the same for DV4 seemed doable. Unfortunately it didn’t quite get there and now here we are. But it’s ok cause he is young and has much more to give to the world and I’ll be here for it.

[@justsomecontent5528]

“I AINT READING ALL THAT”

[@Patricia_Taxxon]

I think the answer is simple, Jacob simply wasn't actually a genius of all musical trades. Which is fine, no one is, but people seemed to expect this guy who is, granted, good at a lot of things and once in a generation good at a few specific things, to simply perform EVERYTHING when he has always exhibited a broad selection of clear weaknesses that have only grown more apparent with time. Well, he's remedied some of them, he finally figured out how to sing like a soloist on vol. 4 and no longer sounds like he's constantly missing the other 19 voices in the choir, he's ALMOST learning how to mix, but his greatest weakness is still present as it always was, but not always exemplified. Jacob Collier cannot utilize the talent of other musicians. In My Room is the best collier because it is the most collier, and not because his guests can't match his freak, but because he is fundamentally incapable of wielding them coherently. Every Djesse volume has multiple collaborations that were wasted so badly I feel like it should have gotten him cancelled. He made the Metropole Orkest sound like a kontakt library, I can barely hear Take 6 on All Night Long, Steve Vai is a non-presence everywhere he appears, and Rapsody's poor little verse speaks for itself. Every vocal feature feels purposeless and incidental, all the most talented vocalists you'll ever hear just presented one after the other like pretty wigs. Obviously, Djesse volume 4 has the most collaborators, so it exemplifies this problem the most. He just can't be on the level of a Bjork or Solange, where you'll have villages worth of musicians from different backgrounds coming together to make something that flawlessly maintains a holistic image and vision. Honestly, I don't think volume 3 was the beginning of the end, I think it was just a different issue. Jacob doesn't have the same background for electronic music as he does for the rest of the pastiches on parts previous, so the end result is just pop music but you can occasionally tell he's heard some flying lotus.

[@Alphaspectre]

This is so real. Where tf was Michael McDonald on Wherever I Go?

[@pivotguydc1149]

@@Alphaspectre I think he's on the first iteration of "I know that it hurts so bad" just before the final vamp

[@pawo161]

I think the answer is not that simple, but can agree with some of your points. We are dealing with a complex case of a world wide acclaimed musical genius who's failing at some core aspects of music in his recent works. His taste and choices are apparently not aligned with the society recently, interesting thing to dissect and observe.

[@josemiguelmaciasvocar2690]

Thank you for articulating what has been in my head since pretty much Djesse 1

[@bryanleggo3489]

The only thing simple here would be you. Sure, long-winded and pompous but still simple. And no, In My Room was NOT the best. It was as good a mostly covers album as you are likely to get but he evolved past that. Gotten him cancelled? Idiotic.

[@paulbonnington2160]

Like you, Jacob’s music enabled me “to see a new colour” too. But this is one of the most thoughtful and considered videos of Jacob’s music I have watched. You have got me rethinking a lot of Vol 4

[@imnotnever494]

I really feel like this album is supposed to be played live, its such a different experience. Also wonderful video, good discussion.

[@thomasjuaristi]

Dont usually comment, havent watched the video yet, but from the video title this video is a GODSEND, hats off! Been asking the same question recently

[@lorentz5512]

I really needed sombody to make this video. I agree on everything 🔥

[@israelstrommusic]

very cool video

[@maxhowlett9661]

I think its very difficult to objectively judge the music of someone who is so constantly hailed as a "genius" and "modern mozart". People who are into it are often so fanatical that it becomes boderline cultish, even when Jacob doesn't really cultivate that kinda thing. As someone who was front row at a secret intimate acoustic show earlier this year, it was genuinely uncomfortable how all-appraising and fanatical people in that crowd were, and Collier seemed to feel this too. JC himself just seems to be someone who is in love with epxloring and pushing boundaries muscially, but often gets hate for what OTHER people say about him. His music is often just an experiment, an exploration. I don't think he's ever wanted for it to be mainstream or popular or hailed as "genius". I think when so many music nerds and outlets hail it as genius, it leaves a very sour taste in the mouth of those who don't *get* it.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

true, it must feel very weird to receive that kind of treatment. Maybe thats why he made vol4 like this, to get people to snap out of it 🤣

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

... but, I do understand that and it would have been me in 2018 if I had been able to see him in concert. The way his music made me feel was indescribable at some level and it was genuinely hard for me to believe this was possible. Like I said, like seeing a new color

[@maxhowlett9661]

@AndyChamberlainMusic oh 100%. In My Room totally changed my outlook and general view on the possibilities of music. In The Real Early Morning remains my favourite JC song to this day. He opens a lot of doors that way. Particularly the non-western stuff. If anything, JC just kinda serves as a good way of dipping you toes into a buuunch of different stuff. If there's parts or sections of a JC song you like, there's probably a whole world / genre of that to explore the he's just taken a little from as part of his exploration. I think that's kinda what he's getting at when he talks about "the world is a musical instrument".

[@IDK-xw2ql]

perfectly articulated a feeling i think many of us who were teens during in my room feel now

[@wizardite]

I agree; WELLLL and Magic are bops

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

real! Magic has been stuck in my head today and I haven't even listened to it in like a week

[@wizardite]

It really weirded me out how utterly relatable this video of yours was... I actually hadn't listened to everything from Djesse 4 until today (I listened along as you were going through them), and it just hit me that I actually gave up on this album exactly with the release of Witness Me (I quite liked Wherever I Go) What Mustard Tastes Like is very fun btw-although that's definitely not what mustard tastes like to me-I look forward to your album @.@

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

@@wizardite haha I can understand that. And thanks for the kind words but if thats not what mustard tastes like to you, then Im afraid you're simply incorrect. The song perfectly captures in all aspects mustard taste qualia, its a scientifically proven fact 🤷‍♂

[@ShirubaGin]

Djesse 4 was quite the mixed bag. Parts were as bad as people said the album said it was. I've seen people say he's like AJR which i don't understand overall but some of these songs definitely gave that vibe.

[@PatrickVerst]

Even if I think Djesse Vol 4 is one of the greatest albums ever written, I love the analysis and ideas you expressed so thoroughly and clearly in this video. I'm definitely a newer fan, being that I didn't truly fall in love with Jacob until shortly after Vol 3 came out. So I think it's safe to say that you have a very different perspective being such a long-time fan, and I definitely respect that and appreciate you sharing that perspective.

[@greyscale2023]

WOAH THX FOR USING MY COMMENT IN THE THUMBNAIL

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

hahaha I wondered whether you or the guy I put for the positive opinion would see it

[@KevinFry-ub4ck]

I was prepared not to like this analysis, but TBH I found it to be rather compelling and I struggle to find anything major I disagree with. For the record, I am a huge JC fan, and in spite of being 70 years old and not in the target demo, I have never found an artist with whom I connect more viscerally. I can't really explain it, but he triggers some kind of emotional response in me that no one else does. I've seen him in person four times in the past year: twice at the Kennedy Center with the National Symphony, including the remarkable Laufey/dodie concert, and twice at The Anthem in DC (a high-quality venue) for the album tour and the strange one-off on a double bill with Samara Joy. Here are some thoughts in no particular order: 1. I realize that an album must stand on its own. After all, peoople are paying good money for it and it may be the only way they can hear him. But my experience hearing the tour concert is that there is no question many of the songs I didn't care for on the album (WELL, Mi Corazon, for example), become much more compelling and comprehensible and enjoyable in live performance. Obviously, if he is performing with a band and backup singers, and has to hit tight light and dance cues, etc., so he can't really do the maximalist thing. There are, after all only seven layers: him, the three band members, and the three backup singers (all universally world class). You may not like the song on the album that's buried under all the production, but in person whatever the true underlying tune is, it will appear in the performance. 2. I find the versions of his songs that he records later, with just himself or minimal collaboration, are almost always better. If you set the album aside, you can frequently find compelling versions of the songs that hearken back a bit to the early albums: the three absolutely brilliant recent Mahogany recordings (Little Blue is in my opinion a masterpiece in that format), In the Real Early Morning performed live in Royal Albert Hall (several years ago), the Kimmel version of Witness Me, even the new Taylor Guitar acoustic version of Stars, which I think is beautiful, etc. He seems to know that the commercial album isn't really his true self, which is why he's contantly covering himself. There is alt Jacob if you look for it and are willing to wait for him to get around to the magical performances that give me goosebumps. This is not an excuse for makng an unsatisfying album, but for fans like me, I'm willing to wait for the actual songs to appear. Casual fans will not have my patience. It's interesting to me that the Aurora collab (which unlike some collabs makes perfect sense) featuring On a Rock Somewhere shot in the Arctic (with freezing fingers that apparently limited his piano virtuoisty), is just astonishing, but no one seems to have noticed that he changed the lryics and took out the reference to the dead person the song is ostensibly communicating with, thus dramatically altering he meaning and making it more pop-sensible. I actually don't mind, since that performance brings me to tears every time. (I would like someone to do a deep dive in his lyrics for his "conversations" with apparently dead people.) 3. For me, his songs would be much srtonger if they seemed to be about actual people. (The throwaway line in Stars of, "she was a singer in a band," notwithstanding.) Nevertheless, and let me be absolutely clear, I derive great enjoyment from his love/romantic/breakup tunes, even if they are a bit vague on details. Actualy, if I'm being honest, as a gay man, the more unspecific they are the better it is for me baecuse I can plug myself into the narrative more easily. 4. Having seen him in live performance four times now, I can report that those concerts are incredible. I heard more than one person say they were the best concert they had ever been to. The second Kennedy Center concert with Laufey (please, please do a live recorded concert with her and fully lean into the jazz side) and that odd JazzFest double bill with Samara Joy (ditto), were performed for audiences who didn't know who he was and weren't fans, but he won them over by the end throgh sheer force of will. Whatever his lyrical weaknesses, his stuff connects with people at a deep level that's almost mysterious. And I would add that for all his natural awkwardness, he fully commands a stage, and for a guy who started out in his bedroom, he made himself into a great live performer. 5. Finally, we all need to remember he's just 30 years old and this is not his last album. Almost every artist has an album that's not one for the ages. We may not have to be disappointed for long. He's a seeker, so we have to surrender to the fact that we're on a journey with him, and the trajectory will not be a straight line. 6. P.S. on a personal note, as someone with Stage Four prostate cancer, World O World is a gift that I will cherish forever. Who ends a pop album with a choral requiem? Like I say, he's not taking us on a straight path.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

So many great thoughts here, I totally agree that he has something undeniable about him, especially live. While I was mostly speaking for the young jazz musicians part of his fanbase because thats where Im coming from, I am aware that its not the only segment and never has been, even before In My Room! There are comments from people of all ages throughout his entire career "waiting for the real song" is interesting, I have almost always preferred the record versions but I also usually find the post-release performances such as tiny desk, mahogany, etc to be very compelling. My only gripe usually is that I feel like he often strays from his own melody too much

[@husvidfloden]

i loved the point u made @ 8:37, nothing more 2 add about that. dunno if i'll add more as i continue watching but altho i don't actively listen 2 him as of recently, i did love, for the most part, vol. 4 b/c it felt awesome watching this person who presents so weirdly & leans into the weirdness have a big pop u2/coldplay moment, an attempt @ mass appeal

[@BromarG]

Hey man, this is a great video with good, detailed talking points. I've known about Jacob for a long time but never really found an interest in checking out his music but after hearing what you had to say about this album and especially the context leading around it, I'm definitely going go through his discography to see how I feel about the journey. Loved doing that with Return to Forever and Snarky Puppy. Thanks for making this video!

[@LeoThomMusic]

Love your energy man. And love JC! Dope video. Subbed :)

[@Jupiter862]

17:42 I looove Wellll. It’s an awesome track. Very simple, stripped back, but raw for Jacob.

[@SuperBlij]

I first became a fan of Jacob after seeing his cover of “don’t you worry bout a thing” I adored that arrangement and still do with him switching between purely vocal arrangement going into a fully instrumental arrangement with a lot of percussion and its catchy up right bass line I remember after I just discovered him that “in my room” just came out and for me it was the first album I’ve listened to so it has a special place in my heart I do now think it has its faults but at the time I saw Jacob as a jazz prophet or something It was pretty crazy when Jacob announced his Djesse album serie as my name is literally Jesse I loved when te 1st and 2nd volume came out but after the 3th I became less of a fan as I thought he sold out going pop with “all I need” being a lead single I didn’t think it was a bad song just a bit boring to me But the first real song after the crazy sound design bit of that album “Count the people” is still to me a one of his worst songs and just a bad song to me. Still after Djesse vol. 3 that was a bit of a disappointment in my eyes I looked forward to Djesse vol. 4 But because there was so much time that passed before it came out I discovered a lot of new music outside of “the new jazz fusion bubble” so: Jacob Collier, Vulfpeck, Snarky Puppy, Hiatus Kaiyote, Louis Cole etc. Widening my perspective on the sounds and influences Jacob was exploring Which made me like a lot of Jacob music even less as his music didn’t compare with cooler alternative pop or fusions of jazz and indie So when Djesse vol. 4 came out I didn’t have high expectations but was still heavily disappointed as I didn’t like any song of it I hope Jacob will do a bit of a return to form I still really like in my room because it’s production is more acoustic and more amateurishly sounding which I prefer Also for anyone that reads this mess I heavily recommend checking out the album “Rong Weicknes” by “Fievel Is Glauque” Heavily Heavily recommend it as it’s low-fi indie (think pomplemoose) fused with crazy free jazz Anyone that enjoyed “in my room” can probably find something to love from that album

[@SuperBlij]

Btw your new single is crazy good 🔥🔥🔥 Damn!

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

"Rong Weicknes by Fievel Is Glauque" sounds like straight up gibberish 🤣 but I see its real

[@pacomoka]

Video aside... The way I SCREAMED when I saw Complexive's Pixel Skies in your list of best albums OAT... It was my favourite album of last year!! Never in my life I'd think I'd find someone who rates it as highly as I do 🤯

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

hell yea!! Complexive doesnt have a huge discography yet but he's one of my favorite artists anyway

[@bentaylor4705]

Great video. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.

[@callumwilliams2172]

Yooo koan sound at 2:30. Elite music choice

[@TheMrLeoniasty]

good video, me and my wife were big Jacob Collier fans. Djesse 3 was meh for us, some songs stuck for a while but thats it. But Djesse 4? we listened to it once and never again, if this is what Jacob will be doing in the future then I'll not be interested in listening to it. He also recently started promoting on music generative AI that he and Google made. So that's also that...

[@stephenweigel]

Good video. When I saw him live, every single song from 4 was vastly improved (except Bridge)

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

True, BOTW being in that legacy of huge-vocal-stacks-that-are-tuned-cleverly could never really be matched live. I do love the harmonizer but it aint the stacks

[@stephenweigel]

@@AndyChamberlainMusic very true. I hope we get old Jacob back occasionally. Even though it’s a lot rarer nowadays for him to make recorded music as great as his older work or covers, when he does I think it’s still “got it.” The Christmas Song has some real nice microtones in it… he has a lumatone… he needs to do something in 31-TET lol

[@RKNsword]

i'm about a half hour into the video. one thing you might take note of is that jacob switched record labels between volumes 2 and 3 from geffen to interscope. the change in personnel involved undoubtedly affected the direction of jacob's artistry, and i wish you had spoken more about that

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

I didn't even know about that! I just knew he had finally hopped on board with Quincy Jones for Djesse Interesting tidbit though Im not sure its necessary to explain what happened. He at least *claims* the record label has little influence on him in the Colin and Samir interview. He says verbatim "they cant tell me sh**" lol

[@gammarays3683]

Great video! I've been a fan of Jacob since he did a cover of fascinating rhythm. If you ask me, a lot of Jacob's music I like when it's just written to be. I feel like djesse 4 was just super commercial especially with collabing chris Martin and Shawn Mendes. But also like world o world was so anticlimactic after the orchestral sound of djesse 1. Idk, when Jacob writes for other people it feels a but diluted versus when he was just writting for himself

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

anticlimactic is an interesting description of World O World. I guess I could agree on that word, but I didn't need it to be climactic because it's not functioning as the finale, it's the epilogue. Box of Stars part 2 is the finale, and that was very climactic and satisfying as a wrap-up of Djesse

[@patcalderontello5581]

Don't know if you checked out the masterclass he did in Mexico city, and don't know the minute either, but at some point he talks about how literally no one cares about him being good but to him pursue this new journey of turning his superpowers off and only use a fraction of them to paint his picture of the world, which is incredibly beautiful and also in my impressionable head's opinion a truly next level impossible challenge for anyone to achieve, to be able to not make anyone freak out hearing Jacob Collier is definitely a tremendous football double baiting or whatever

[@tsg_frank]

I wasn't there for Jacob's early work, i came in later before Djesse Vol.3, and i personally really liked that album and the soundscape that he was exploring on it, those tracks are all very memorable to me and so are Vol.1 and Vol.2 as well. I enjoyed all the impressive displays of harmony and unorthodox arrangements, for younger music fans hearing Jacob for the first time is like realizing the vastness of the universe, just having all these ideas packed together and executed in a unique way, people who were as young as Jacob when he started were probably thinking "oh my god this is crazy, i wish i could do this" and kept being attracted to that inherent appeal. But people's perception of Jacob always seemed pretty skewed to me, now more than ever i see all this projection on him, about what he represents as an artist or as a person or about his ideas and ability, some people are turned off by his extravagant nature and want to write him off as a pretentious prick that's not really worth anything while others have instead put him on a pedestal where he's literally the greatest thing to ever happen in music, and in both cases these judgements miss his actual humanity. Like, Jacob is obviously someone who has been immensely dedicated to creating music since he was a literal child, and that creative process is an intrinsic part of his identity and his way of interpreting the world, i feel it's independent of audience consumption, like it would exist regardless of how many people thought about it, and in that way it kinda explains why these albums came out the way they did. They don't play to expectations, these are all playgrounds for ideas and they may or may not appeal to everyone, but they do appeal to Jacob, and that is ultimately the metric by which he operates.

[@maximilianellis1311]

While I disagree with many of the points you make in this video, I do respect this more than any other criticism of him that I’ve seen. This is the first criticism I’ve seen that actually backs its points with direct evidence, and I think more people should express their opinions like you do.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

I appreciate it haha, if you feel like it I'd love to hear your disagreements! thats the best part of these videos for me is hearing people's disagreements

[@maximilianellis1311]

⁠​⁠@@AndyChamberlainMusicI might watch the video again to formulate some of my opinions better, but here are a couple thoughts I had. Regarding your issues with the collaborators he chose, I don’t see it as him working with people just because they’re famous. Sean Mendes and Chris Martin are friends of his, and I see friendship as a core element of this album, and Djesse as a whole. Also, it seems to me that you cherry-picked the two examples of collaborators that supported your argument, as basically everyone else seemed to be very specifically chosen for the purpose (I don’t think anyone’s mad about John Legend or Brandi Carlile being on it.) Sure, they might not be idols of his like Take Six was, but I have nothing against the people he chose to work with. As for Witness Me, I don’t really disagree with anything you said, but I never noticed any of it as a problem until hearing it from you. The harmonies are mostly very simple, the lyrics aren’t the most creative (I personally don’t care as much about lyrics), even though it may be my least favorite on the album, I always enjoy it when I listen to it. The harmony being simple for so long makes it so when it changes in the Stormzy part, it’s a huge deal to me, even though the chords are still very simple by Jacob’s standards. I notice the same thing in Little Blue. You expressed your disappointment with how volume 4 (and 3) weren’t the Jacob Collier you’d come to love in his first 3 albums. I completely understand, but I also think that with how different each of his songs are, there’s no common element between any of them. To wish his music was like how it used to be, you first need to be able to define how it used to be. Not all of his songs are so maximalist, or harmonically boundary-breaking. However, there are plenty of songs in volumes 3 and 4 that are both of those things. As for the album being labeled as pop, I see it as just that: a label. I’d guess it was tacked on near the end of the process; I don’t think he started writing it knowing it was going to be a pop album. I believe this may also be the case for volume 3. Albums basically require you to assign some genre to it, and my belief is that he decided on pop after he knew what it sounded like. Similarly, I don’t think jazz as a label really does the volume 1 justice, and alternative folk is a small part of how I see volume 2. (I might be wrong about some things in this, I don’t know for sure.) Overall, I think that it’s a good album, and he’s happy with it. He made the album he wanted to, and I like his music because I like seeing who he is. (I also might be reading into things, but I believe this album might be him trying to go against him being “the music theory guy.” The lyric “Let me be ordinary” in 100000 voices really makes me think that.)

[@birchwwolf]

BOX OF THOUGHTS: i came in with Vol. 1 and the fact that it was so interwoven and classically-minded struck me. The first four songs work like a Sondheim score with their multiple layers and self-referential quotations; the title track's motifs re-appear everywhere. Vol. 2 starts to lose me after the immaculate "Moon River" cover; feels overstuffed, less purpose-driven. Vol. 3: Much like how Jojo Siwa was a beauty pageant kid and went about her bad girl rebrand like a beauty pageant kid would because that's what she knows, Jacob became the Music Theory Guy stereotype all over groove-laden, "in the pocket" music. He's out of his element and he's overcompensating by stretching himself way too thin. "He Won't Hold You" is my choice cut from Vol. 3, felt of kin to Vol. 1 in a way. Vol. 4: ... oh boy. i understand Jacob's commitment to use the voices of others, but he's not saying anything himself anymore. He's content with anyone walking in and singing or playing anything without editorial control, and he's piling all these random takes into his DAW. it doesn't feel like this music is being thought out, written down, arranged much at all. Watch his livestreams of "Home Is" versus "100,000 Voices" and you can just see the absolute disorganization he's squirreled himself into. What once was "i added this timpani in the distance to accentuate the plunge into that bass chord" becomes "i just had to squeeze this and this and this into there because why not, it's lovely." On top of that, Jacob co-wrote/arranged Coldplay's song "❤" (aka "Human Heart") and it's the most safely arranged, lyrically banal thing Jacob's attached his name to. So not only did he cede control to others, but those around him are essentially quoting Hallmark cards and he's fine with letting that happen. i think if he abandoned the concept of finishing the Djesse tetralogy and called this album something else, it could have felt less like a disappointment for all of us who really thought he was gonna stick the landing.

[@FormalFilmsProductions]

Absolutely agree. I’d become a fan of Jacob after Jesse volume three came out and Devin into his back catalog. This album to me felt like Jacob was throwing darts at a board to see what random stuff he could come up with. My favorite songs were little blue and never gonna be alone.

[@deejayjarrett]

I felt the same disappointment with vol. 3 and vol. 4; too long waiting time and too many singles released already for the albums to make sense as a whole. I think what stood out with vol. 1 and 2 is that they had these “indie” kind of productions which very much worked in the context, but now that he’s getting more into pop, he’s not quite there production-wise (yet), and it makes the older stuff feel more playful and effortless.

[@simasuma]

There is one parallel universe, buried underneath the infinite pile of parallel universes, in which Witness Me is your fave song. I am with you in this one though and agree fully.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

maybe not even buried under that many other universes: kzbin.info3x2HtAaZgmE plus, the live version is actually pretty good I guess maybe the universe where it is "my favorite" is buried under quite the pile though lol

[@MatthewBanks100]

Collier's music could not appeal to me less, but I enjoyed this history and analysis

[@gof36]

In my opinion, the problem responds to JC’s main issue/challenge, which is: form. I’ve always enjoyed his music, mainly because of his ability as a producer. But I keep saying he needs to improve the structure of his songs/albums/projects since In my Room. It is ironic that his music feels mostly free in terms of melody, harmony and rhythm, but inside of a giant jail with its walls covered by a huge collage. That’s why when he gets rid of his “maximalism” his arrangement feels a little empty, or why the whole DJESSE project doesn’t feel as a cohesive and unified project. I really hope he finds the time and the passion to really study how form can really work. He could be one of the most indicated musicians to really challenge this parameter.

[@kos6654]

im 2 minutes into this and i wanna challenge the assertion that his real early stuff was "ehmmmmm". serendipity slaps. also kamis journey.

[@kos6654]

halfway now. agree with a lot of stuff but ofc what i feel like writing a comment about is that i fucking love box of stars pt 1

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

maybe I cherry picked and chose The Arrow and the Song for that reason lol honestly a point that didnt really need to be there but it was a fun bit of pacing for the video and I think the real point still stands, which is that there was a real progression from kami's/serendipity/arrow-and-song to the I Saw Three Ships through Dont You Worry Bout A Thing era

[@kos6654]

@@AndyChamberlainMusic and on that i absolutely agree!

[@epthopper]

I started listening to Jacob around the same time you did, and had a similar initial reaction of disappointment. But then I saw Jacob live in May, and suddenly all the songs made sense. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think the album is disappointing because of the actual content of the songs, those are still as excellent as ever. I think the album just feels less genuine, less spontaneous, too clean. I get that he's going for a pop vibe, but I feel that the album versions of many of the tracks have the life sucked out of them.

[@epthopper]

After watching the video, you pretty much said this near the end.

[@papiChulo6699]

Man, i was just thinking about this album. To me it kinda feels like he’s trying to be SO diverse on this album that it actually makes it feel very messy and less authentic to me. I really, really loved In My Room because it showcased a lot of JC’s musical talents contained in a certain palette. With DJ4 it feels like he’s bitten off more than he can chew with this album that tries to be so many things, with so many style and so many collaborations, while mostly trying to have a ‘pop-sound’. While i acknowledge JC’s insane talents, this album just felt like an over-the-top talent show… Very curious to see what direction he’ll go in now that Djesse is complete!

[@lalaricky1]

over time Ive grown to really love Vol 4. People put too much of their own baggage on. Let it just be itself. On its own terms pretty much every track is a gem.

[@jsdsps01]

Have you heard this first demo of Witness me? I think there’s a lot more energy and liveliness in this snippet than what we actually got in the end: kzbin.info3x2HtAaZgmE?si=Kpprvyp-dnD2yOIR

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

yea for sure, this makes it even more baffling. I cant quite tell whether its just an artifact of the sound system+phone recording but it sounds like theres some syncopated kick stuff 5 seconds in and that would have been nice. Also some higher voices in the chords at the very start than were on the record *sigh*

[@bryanleggo3489]

The Jimmy Kimmel with Tori Kelly version is at least as good.

[@rabenvater2455]

Rian Johnson made Djesse Volume 4. Subverted everyones expectations.

[@jordanolson]

Can't believe you didn't talk about all the snippets that didn't make it on the album. Great video tho

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

ah yea, to be honest I never personally kept up with the snippets that much. I've heard them all but it honestly just didnt occur to me to bring them up that would have been good though, especially as part of a segment providing evidence for the premise of the video ("most old jacob fans were disappointed") which in retrospect I probably should have done

[@Yvelluap]

never have i ever been this ashamed for liking a song. this video has gotten Witness Me stuck in my head and i'm actually kinda digging it. how can i rid myself of this curse

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

lol, Im sorry to hear you feel ashamed, theres nothing wrong with liking it, I just cant do that myself

[@BSengen]

To go back to your Avengers metaphor at the midpoint of the video, Jacob, to me, is becoming a Nick Fury type for music. He’s reached the point of popularity where he can call up almost any musician, and he can give them something more for them to do

[@amaice]

IF THERE ARE NO WELLL FANS THEN WE ARE BOTH DEAD

[@jontaylor5482]

I see some similarities between JC and Todd Rundgren. Both have singular voices. Both aren’t satisfied with one genre or sound. Taking g what you’ve said about his collaboration and his idea about not forcing his voice on others, I wonder if he should take a leaf out of Todd’s book by actively producing others to satisfy that need to bring others on. This would leave him free to continue to explore his own voice with his solo work. Kind of love vol 4 though - because it’s messy and sprawling. Despite Witness Me…

[@finbar1184]

I personally really enjoyed listening to volume 4, listening to it for the first time was magical, the same way it felt to listen to volume 3 for the first time, and all his other works. However, I distinctly remember being excited to see how all the different songs sound together, and then being disappointed due to their lack of cohesiveness - it feels much more separate than say volume 1, or IMR. To me at least. Volume 2 to some extent suffered that problem for me also. There were standout tracks for sure over volume 4, but not all of them screamed "This is Jacob Collier". I went into the album wanting to listen to a fun time, and it was. But, if I went into it expecting the zenith of Djesse, I know I would've been disappointed. The best song for me in terms of finishing up Djesse was as you say, BOTS2. Listening to that made my evening. But songs like Witness Me defo ruined/ took me out of the immersion. I personally really enjoyed A Rock Somewhere, but for the interesting soundscape, and not the well put-togetherness, which it lacked. The deluxe songs were amazing though. The criticism about cheesy lyrics always throws me due to the fact Djesse has always seemed cheesy to me in terms of lyricism, he's stated before - I think- that lyrics come last in his process, which may explain things. Overall, an enjoyable album but not a wholly Jacob "The Music Theory Guy" Collier album lmao

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

yep, it definitely isnt cohesive, but I wasnt expecting it to be so I wasnt really disappointed by that aspect

[@finbar1184]

@AndyChamberlainMusic yea, that's fair. Tbh, I was just happy he released it. It may not have lived up to expectations, but perhaps it never would, as I believe you said in the video.

[@hanfeezy]

idk what ppls issue is with WELL it was one of the only highlights for me

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

right! I still dont really get it. Like people point out the parts they dont like and Im like okay I hear that I just dont see how that makes it bad

[@MrDoomsdayBomb]

I've been a fan of Jacob's for a bit, but many of his albums have always been a mixed bag for me even before Djesse, but I guess for different reasons. For instance, a lot from In My Room I can appreciate in terms of complexity but wont go into on a more emotional level. In Djesse Vol.2 some of the songs are too simple and sparse to give me much to work with. Songs like WELLLL and Witness me are too safe and cookie-cutter. Whenever he tries going out of his comfort zone of jazzy and folky tunes, things end up worse. I believe at least part of the reason is that the more time he spends with a work, the greater the risk of it falling flat, either because he ends up overcomplicating things or other less desirable aspects of the work that he does not have as much control over start taking center stage, and these cannot be reined in by falling back on elements of genres with which he has more familiarity. Whenever I've seen videos of him live, or when he's doing one of his mahogany sessions, I would always say that these are his best works. Indeed, some of his mahogany sessions I have on repeat daily and are some of the best things I've listened to in a while. When he goes more folky and stripped bare with some of his original songs or covers, that's when I become affected in ways that almost no other artist can match. Nevertheless, this does not mean that there aren't tracks in his records that I absolutely adore, but I do think he needs to stop spreading himself so thin because otherwise he'll keep bumping up into areas of song- and genrecrafting that he does not have the chops to expertly manoeuvre within.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

WELLLL being "safe and cookie-cutter" is hard for me to understand. I genuinely dont get that one. Witness Me certainly is As for the stripped down vs overproduced stuff, yea a lot of people feel that way Ive noticed. I generally prefer his records over the stripped down performance recordings, even for some of vol4, in large part because he has a habit of never actually singing the melody of his own songs. I love his runs but I want to hear the original melody at least once lol But I would be inclined to agree on the front of the farther away he goes from jazzy folksy stuff the worse it gets. Althogh he has made several bangers of RnB tracks now with Feel, Time Alone With You, Cinnamon Crush, and Magic

[@rainbowkittycat627]

I mean… to me djesse vol 4 wasn’t that big of a shift for jacob, it’s that jacob’s music was shared with a wider audience. And jacob collier’s music…. isn’t that good? Like no shade if you’re a fan, he does his specific maximalist art-pop jazz thing really well and he’s really technically proficient. But for anyone who’s not in the berkeley bubble or a fan of that style of music, (which most of the record buying public and music reviewers aren’t really,) then there’s really nothing to appeal to you. His music isn’t bad, it’s just not going to be most people’s thing. Just like how most people aren’t going to like extreme death metal or noise music. But when all you know of jacob is everyone and their mother hyping him up as god’s gift to music and then he’s average at best, it’s hard not to feel cheated or annoyed by that.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

the "berklee bubble" is a minority of his fans, certainly today and even before djesse it wasn't nearly everyone. You'll find a lot of older folks in his comment sections 7 years ago. But I myself am mostly speaking for the "berklee bubble" cause that's where I'm coming from

[@rainbowkittycat627]

@@AndyChamberlainMusic I’m not saying that his fans are all working at burklee or in the bubble, I’m just saying in general, his fans are fans of that sound. Because it’s the kind of music that he makes. And it’s hard to ignore that while there are a lot of people who are fans of that sound, there are just as many if not more who aren’t. It’s as simple as that.

[@Proghead88]

It's way too unique of an artist to judge like this and phrasing it as if something went wrong is unnecessary. There are many great songs on it that have had a life on their own as singles before the album came out, and they all have tons of streams and plays on multiple platforms. I'm a long time fan and I loved every second of it. If anyone wanted any of it to be what they expected, some people missed the point. I've seen tons of praise for that album so it doesn't really seem to warrant anything other than a personal "here's what I liked and didn't". The album shows maturity, endless creativity balanced with simplicity, and takes you on a real trip across styles, moods, and textures. Like someone else said, this album was even better suited for the live show and the songs carry that energy where everything is a little more exposed and proud to exist, no matter how simple or raw. I'm sure there are haters but there's way too much support to speak so definitively "across the board", not to mention the word "wrong" does not make sense in context of someone as spontaneous, and genuinely excited to follow his intuition as Jacob. You either care about his self-expression without compromises, or not. It's good for you if you don't like it, but this is like making a video on why you think there's something disappointing, or "meh" about someone's laugh (just an analogy).

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

> like someone else said this album was even better suited for the live show I assume you just didnt make it through the whole video then cause I talk about this for a few minutes starting at 34:31 As for "caring about his self-expression without compromises"... that's what you do for your family members or friends, not for a famous stranger. And again maybe you didn't watch the whole thing so you missed this too but I said multiple times that no one did anything morally wrong, Jacob doing what he did was fine and I'm sure he had a good time. Also as I said, he succeeded in his goal of reaching people. I'm talking about why the musical product was disappointing to a certain group of people in general. Perhaps I misjudged the proportion of "old jacob fans" who were "disappointed", but it certainly seems from the many comment sections I've read that that proportion was high enough to get curious about

[@josh44026]

The album isn't coherent

[@Marikonie]

Yes! Album in my room is the best! New stuff is still good but not

[@dygyt.]

2:32 KOAN SOUND SPOTTED ‼️

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

I wore my LBAL hoodie for the livestream too ☀️

[@voidform_music]

I also love the song WELLLL!

[@josh44026]

Only 2 songs are R&B on the album or R&B adjacent

[@timguo6858]

If you hate this you would hate his previous albums even more, nothing happened back then cuz he was not this popular. The criticisms were more for his popularity than his musical merit. Which is crazy cuz you would assume more reviews about music from the opposite side.

[@transcribemusic]

Damn. Although I wouldn’t say I‘m disappointed with how Vol. 4 turned out, there was a lot in this (beautifully crafted, by the way) video with which I resonate a lot. The one point where I would like to disagree is the assumption that music in the pop/R‘n‘B world necessarily needs to have that complex harmony/rhythm language that we’re used to hear from Jacob. I know you didn’t phrase it like that, but I do think that in the apparent simplicity of pop songs can sometimes lie more complexity than we might at first assume. To me, I found my peace with some tracks that are more on the pop side by the fact that this is simply another language that he’s trying to speak. That being said, I would have been interested in the rhythmically/harmonically more complex wizardry when it comes to these pop songs. But I also fear that some of these tracks, especially „Wherever I go“ wouldn’t have resonated with me as much as these apparently simple records. But how can I know, I would have to listen to how the more complex versions would sound like to be able to make a judgment like this. When it comes to „Witness Me“, I completely agree with you. This is LITERALLY THE ONLY track of Jacob that I would skip, and your description of it being bland is just perfect. I remember listening to the snippets he recorded with Kirk Franklin and being SO EXCITED for this to come out and then he dropped this… mainstream-adjusted poppy BORING and cheesy Christian track (nothing against Christian songs) and I was SO disappointed. Where has the soul gone, where has the gospel gone!? Apart from that, I loved 100,000 Voices except for the djent part. By itself, the djent part was great but I feel it should have been a separate and more elaborated track on its own. My absolute favorites are „She Put Sunshine“, „Wherever I go“, both „Box of Stars“ and I cried a lot to „Summer Rain“ and „Little Blue“. I was also majorly disappointed by „A Rock Somewhere“ and „Mi Corazon“. But yeah, although I do not agree with your overall judgment of the album, you just delivered a great video and great analysis, man!

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

Oh yea pop is very hard to do well, and Jacob didn't do it very well that's the thing. I think he misapplied his skills, and that he thought by collaborating with pop musicians he could figure out the pop thing. Its kind of like he's a decade late with a lot of his gestures, but also trying to shoehorn in jacobean stuff. Modern pop that people like is generally quite raw as much ideologically as it is musically. Generally speaking throughout all eras pop music has to be a little bit counter-cultural or rebellious. Like right now Charli XCX and Sabrina Carpenter and Chapel Roan are killing it because they have specific sounds and lyrics and songs that people actually relate to and find intriguing. I think with pop lyrics matter a lot and Jacob did not write many compelling lyrics in that vein for volume 4, and I dont think he could have cause he's just not that guy. Ideologically he's very neutral, he just has this like "oh the human spirit is so powerful and we should all sing together" thing, he's never gonna say something really hard-hitting or shocking or surprising in a song

[@erlendjulieb1760]

Its not that anything went wrong with Djesse 4, Jacob has simply changed his interests, and he´s into pop-music now.(maybe pop+) So I think its natural for the earlier fans to dislike what he does now. But if you listen to it as pop-music, you can see it as pretty nice stuff, listening on the premises of jazz or other types of "art music", his music wont be as interesting anymore because it has a certain "superficiality", thats part of the pop sound. If you like jazz just dont listen to Jacob anymore, hes done with that. I dont listen to him anymore because it doesnt interest me anymore, but I can still see that Djesse vol4 is a good pop-record that ALOT of new people really like. And honestly, Jacob has probably ALWAYS had 70s/80s Pop music as his inspirations, Quincy Jones is his Idol. So this development makes alot of sense.

[@bryanleggo3489]

Most of this is not pop and a LOT of it is World and anything but western pop. Mi Corazon is the only one that's too mersh for me but that plays really well live in concert. No, Quincy Jones is NOT his idol. Joni Mitchell, Bobby McFerrin, Stevie Wonder, Take 6 and a few others are his biggest influences.

[@erlendjulieb1760]

@@bryanleggo3489 Im speaking of Pop as musical culture, not a genre, since thats a bit opaque. He´s writing popular music now, and its amazing how he can blend music from all different sorts of cultures. I seem to remember him often mentioning Quincy Jones as a big inspiration for him in videos, there no denying that. I guess using the word Idol might have been too much. Try to define some contemporary pop in a specific genre, you will often not be able to put a label on since it has become a great fusion of things, just like how we see with Collier. However his earlier music was easier to define into R&B, Jazz , Fusion etc.. I think for alot of people Pop has become a swearword, and especially for music nerds, and thats why they deem him "bad", which is unfair. All those people you mentioned aswell, including Jones are HUGE pop-culture icons, where perhaps McFerrin will be the one who sticks a bit out.

[@bryanleggo3489]

@@erlendjulieb1760 Of course he was thrilled to be courted by Quincy who was soon instrumental in J's career. Anyone would be. Quincy's long and legendary presence is known to all musicians but I've never heard JC talk about Quincy's music as an influence.The other ones I mentioned (who are icons ans more), yes, along with his mom and Benjamin Britten. Narrow genres have died out some and Jacob is the perfect example of being multi-genre or cross-genre or no-genre depending on how you want to look at it. Willow's maybe another. Some would say Bjork. I personally wish he'd head back more towards jazz and bring in more horns but sill delve into the sounds and polyrhythms of World Music.

[@wildflute]

You know artists aren’t robots, right? He’s creating for himself and exploring art, like it or don’t, but there’s nothing ‘wrong’ here. Would you pan a painter because they started experimenting with new styles 5 years after they were discovered? child

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

at no point did I say he did something wrong, in fact I explicitly state that I'm not making any moral claims about the album or his actions in creating it at 24:18

[@josh44026]

What i dont like about J4 its not a coherent album and i dont always like jacob arrangments for example power of one by israel Houghton and Aaron Lindsey has much better arrangements

[@bryanleggo3489]

Coherent album! LOL!

[@henderson1722]

I liked witness me. I like the harmonies a lot. I think if the harmonies weren’t effective its simplicity would be offensive. But since the harmonies add a lot to the song, its simplicity is “pure”, a lot like little blue. Does that make sense?

[@mji29]

I don't think my disappointment is coming from the same direction as yours. I DMed this to JC after the release of Djesse 4: "suggestion for your next release of new material: 1. create your logic session multi-track recordings 2. don't release the results of 1. - treat 1. as part of the process, not the final product 3. re-record the recordings from 1. a la Mahogany Sessions / Tiny Desktop Concerts (both ones) / Jimmy Kimmel 2024 (to me, these are the instances where you really communicate) 4. release results of 3. as a coherent album"

[@TheDoritos333]

Great video possibly the best on KZbin

[@Proghead88]

You have very low standards

[@TheDoritos333]

@@Proghead88 your cold heart will chain you

[@Proghead88]

@@TheDoritos333 assuming things about how "cold" someone's heart is will chain you 🤣

[@shiba.southbxl]

i like wellll

[@Turtlpwr]

Probably the same thing that happened with all the previous albums: he makes trust fund vibes. His life has been far too easy for him to make good art.

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

I see what you're saying, but I disagree with that last sentence. Jacobs life does in fact appear to have been quite nice and easy, he's lived in a house, and in fact the same house, his entire life, he went to uni, seems to have never struggled financially, and of course all the benefits that come with being a cishet white man BUT, he absolutely can make compelling art when he isnt trying to play in a space not meant for that. In My Room was his truest form, where he was expressing himself genuinely and wasnt trying to be anything else. He is a music nerd making the highest levels of music for music nerds. But in pop, especially in 2024, you need something viscerally engaging to say, and due to the trust fund vibes he has nothing like that.

[@hlokomani]

My hot take is that Vol 4 is perfectly fine

[@malcolmkirkwood-vn9sg]

1 mega gealous gealous person, try doing it for yourself

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

you'll be pleased to know I have multiple albums out and a new one coming soon!

[@bryanleggo3489]

How arrogant of you to pretend to be spokesman for any segment of his fans. Nothing went wrong. It was a concluding summary album obviously meant to be expansive and as international as possible. Almost every song on it is good to great including a couple of showstoppers like Bridge and World O World. There are a couple I didn't like that much but even those are quite good when performed live in concert. What I don't understand is why anyone would subscribe to a channel like this, much less sit thru 40 minutes of noise. It would have been more humane to say you didn't like it and be done in 3 minutes.

[@noisemaker0129]

It was not good.

[@bryanleggo3489]

@@noisemaker0129 Wow. How articulate and insightful. Are you a best selling author?

[@noisemaker0129]

@@bryanleggo3489 Actually yes lol

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

this is interesting because your statement about the quality of the songs is pretty much exactly what I say too. For me there are two sides to this; there are the songs that I didnt like and were quite good live, where I wanted to explore why the records turned out like they did. Then on the other hand, the reason the whole thing was disappointing: largely due to my expectations for Jacob Collier, and I admit that. The thing is that as evidenced by this comment section alone, and the countless comments I've read and conversations Ive had since February, a significant segment of old Jacob fans ended up feeling the way I do about it, though perhaps "nearly across the board" was too far. But I'm curious, was there was a similar distribution ("almost every song is good to great and a couple I didn't like") for you on other Jacob albums? Particularly vol2 and In My Room

[@tsg_frank]

You know fans are allowed to criticize the things they like right? This comment reads like you're just personally offended that someone would dare say anything negative about this album.

[@noisemaker0129]

Eugh, forget disappointment. This album was full of empty neoliberal signaling. Want an ACDC song? Get WELLL. Want to feel something related to nature? Here are some rain sounds. Here is an audiance clapping sound. I hate how it uses so much symbolism to tell me how to feel. This is just shit capitalistic music.

[@bryanleggo3489]

Neoliberal signalling! LOL! All you do really IS noise, isn't it?

[@noisemaker0129]

@@bryanleggo3489 That is not an intelligent comeback.

[@bryanleggo3489]

@@noisemaker0129 Stupid remarks like yours don't deserve them. Arguably, vapid trolling deserves no response at all.

[@noisemaker0129]

@@bryanleggo3489 ok, love the nerves, but seriously the album was not good enough. The lyrics were intelligence-insulting. Not even nonsensical, just purely the most cliche and cheap possible. All of the redundant sound effects telling us how to feel (raindrops, audience claps, etc. another good example is woman's screams and gunshots in Skrillex tracks) instead of letting us feel ourselves with musical choices are concerning, because it is artistically lazy, and especially since this phenomenon is connected with marketing music to the masses, and generally cheapening our emotions (see "reification and music"). To top this off I just don't think the good parts were good enough. Also man expressing opinions is not trolling.

[@bryanleggo3489]

@@noisemaker0129 And why should I care what you think is "good enough"? I was a musician and it was more than good enough for me since most albums have only have a couple of good or genuinely creative songs. His lyrics aren't great and maybe won't ever be within the funk/pop idiom the but they have improved a LITTLE. Somehow I don't really feel superior judging the depth of someone in their 20's who's been sheltered. My lyrics probably wouldn't have been great then, either. There are at least 5 songs that have brilliant harmonies but I am not interested in discussing those with you and any other boorish overbearing lefty. I wish YT had an easy block function. FTR, I have no problem with musically smarter lefties including Roger Waters and Lowkey, two of the only ones pout there with some balls these days. Now go away.

[@bobsbigboy_]

One of the worst albums Ive ever heard

[@ashleymerritt9461]

The man has Disney teen actor vibes and writes bollocks songs that sound like they’re from musicals. All the music theory in the world ain’t gonna change that. It’s like Jordan Peterson, you listen to him and initially it sounds smart, then you realise he’s said nothing and you couldn’t care less.

[@jessiefullermusic]

have you listened to his earlier stuff like in my room and djesse vol 2