Anglican Unscripted 841: Pope Francis Commissions Women Bishops

[@TimothyMatkin]

Kevin, God bless your relationship with your children. Praying for you.

[@melvynmcminn9121]

Don't forget that Christ had the courage to tell the truth, no matter what; and for that both "sides" killed Him for it...

[@georgeconger2850]

One of the curses of the modern church has been the presumption of many that they are being prophetic. We saw Justin Welby being prophetic, to his lights, in his speech on Rwanda in the House of Lords. And, it came off as being boorish. Investing people with the mantle of prophet is not always wise.

[@ellen823ful]

Very good 👍. Very true! And what God intended for the greater good. ( I know. It’s hard to wrap your head around.)

[@ellen823ful]

@@georgeconger2850 Yah..prophetic. That’s what that was.

[@JCLewis27]

It’s heartbreaking to hear of children who won’t talk to their parents.

[@rick11960]

I thought that attending University improved ones debating skills...

[@johncrutchfield1222]

Yes, it's horrible.

[@lightinlondon8168]

Well done, Calvin, for speaking his mind with conviction in an age of wimps and cowards.

[@roberthilsdon3900]

I would like to say that this was a reasoned analysis of the Calvin Robinson speech and the responses. It was great to hear even if coming from an Orthodox position, I am not in favour of woman's orders. My only criticism of the first video was that it went beyond journalism into speculation and commentary. At one point it was said that that Calvin spent too much time in Critical Theory and women ordination and not on Critical Race Theory. Any one that has followed Calvin would know (as he has stated) he will not be the token black face and would not have talked on CRT if he had been asked to. My only contribution to this - I am sorry any Bishop that uses the pulpit and a confirmation service to say this is wrong - enter discussion and debate or criticise him directly. However he did say he was cancelled... Maybe a 10 minute section about the incident then followed by this follow up video would have been great, but again this video is a great follow up. Again thanks for what you do in a not easy in the present "reasonable listening" world.

[@jamesbarksdale978]

Alistair Begg's mistake was telling her what she "should" do, rather than saying what he might do in a similar situation. All the same, everyone has over-reacted. No one seems to be considering this man's faithful ministry for the last 40 years. Doesn't that count for something? The man's not a heretic. He just gave pastoral advice (ill-advised, I think) based on his opinion. Who hasn't? This is a new world, and we're all trying to find our way through. Let's have a little grace here, shall we?

[@mickwhitty20009]

Just heard Calvin speak about how he saw things. It seems to me that a private call to gain understanding on both sides may help and strengthen friendship. Thinking of both parties who I highly regard.

[@mikecrees9715]

George, I respect your depth and thoughtfulness, but in reality Calvin only spoke about the elephant in the room. There are many in history that we look back on fondly and with respect who spoke truth to power in this way. If it didn't upset some, then it wouldn't be an issue.

[@georgeconger2850]

Speaking truth to power is one way of looking at this. Perhaps that was CR's motivation. I doubt any minds were change, and positions only hardened. What would have happened if an irenic tone had been adopted?

[@hightorychad4221]

@@georgeconger2850 Probably nothing and the debate around women's ordination would continue to be viewed as settled.

[@marmeemarch7080]

​@@georgeconger2850 Has anyone considered that from a British person's viewpoint, Fr. Calvin in fact was irenic? There are clues in the text of his speech and in a few things he has said since. I suspect there's a LOT of "two countries being divided by a common language" here. I felt that sort of thing in the last few episodes in which Gavin Ashenden was the 3rd co-host. The two of you spoke past one another, and received offense where none was intended, and missed cues. I say this from the experience of once myself having committed those types of blunders with an English person (very jarring experience at the time!). Also, Southerners of all tribes can be faulted for being a bit insular culturally. Just my $.02, and I truly hope this helps anyone who reads it.

[@marmeemarch7080]

​@@hightorychad4221 an irenic tone, from a Southern taste -- that might have opened some discussions. The problems are, a Brit comes to a conference or debate or panel discussion expecting spicy stuff, and feels expected to deliver it if invited to speak. On the other hand, Southerners expect a whole different style.

[@hightorychad4221]

@@marmeemarch7080 As a Brit I thought we were always to agreeable.

[@johncrutchfield1222]

Kevin, I'm an ACNA priest, resident in the Diocese of the Carolinas; my parish (where I'm an assisting priest) is Church of the Apostles, Columbia, SC (where Bishop Chip Edgar served before he left to become bishop of the Diocese of South Carolina). Both Chip and I are graduates of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, north of Chicago (Deerfield, IL), in the late '80s. It was a wonderful experience. It still exists but apparently has fallen on some hard times financially. Neither of us went there because of its denomination (Evangelical Free Church of America), but because of its reputation as a solid evangelical seminary with academic excellence. George and Kevin, one note of nuance to the Alistair Begg story. I don't believe he gave a blanket endorsement of attending same-sex weddings. He advised a grandmother that she could attend her grandson's wedding to a transgender person as long as those getting married were aware of her conviction that same-sex marriage is wrong. I'm not saying I agree; I just thought you would welcome the correction.

[@User_Happy35]

The Mere Anglicanism conference leaders got it wrong when they cancelled him from the panel. Why not allow the other panelists or the audience who disagreed to push back on Calvin's premise and have it as part of the discussion. Perhaps it was the leaders of the conference who were lead by the unclean spirit.

[@ellen823ful]

A very stinky spirit with very bad breath 😷

[@kimmarquardt9115]

I have never commented here before but it is troubling to me that Calvin read from God’s holy word and because it offended the women priests it made Calvin the one in the wrong. Isn’t that the problem in many churches today? The clergy waters everything down so no one listening to the sermon gets hurt feelings? Somehow I don’t think he delivered his message in a mean spirited manner. And as you said, they knew who he is when they invited him!

[@lancersharpe]

Reading from Scripture is not the problem or shouldn't have been. It is his interpretation of the passage that offended.

[@odinsraven116]

I Was so amazed to find Calvin Robinson being attacked in the way he was , by people who had invited him to speak in Charleston, how rude to treat him like that. What i like about Calvin is that he is completely honest . Some may think he is being rude , but no. He always follows the teaching of the Lord . It matters not what anybody thinks, only what Jesus thinks. Like him or loath him Calvin is 100 per cent a sincere and honest follower of Christ. He believes in following what Christ teaches and will never deviate from that path . Snd he does not care whose feelings get hurt because this is woke rubbish snd we all know it is. We need to forget all this wokeness and cleave to what God wants. Not Feminists and welby types.

[@roddumlauf9241]

@@lancersharpe Calvin's interpretation was right and Biblical, faithful to the Apostolic Tradition.

[@jamesbarksdale978]

​@@lancersharpe This is the problem as I see it: You're allowed to voice your opinion as long as the powers that be agree. If they don't you get dressed down and cancelled. So much for free speech.

[@lancersharpe]

@roddumlauf9241 He may be right but it wasn't well argued was my point.

[@revbmrobison]

I graduated from CDSP in 1986-which was around the time that it began its transition from being the seminary of the West Coast to being the seminary of the Left Coast. I have many fond memories of those years and still many good friends and colleagues who were a part of them. But it’s been 25 years since I’ve recommended the school as a good place for preparation for ordinands. They’ve had some brilliant faculty, for sure, but the culture of theological drift and decay has been relentless. The separation from the GTU makes perfect sense given the new hybrid MDiv model, and I expect that over the next few years the Trinity Wall Street Vestry will move to sell the real estate and find more financially realistic locations to assemble the hybrid program gatherings. I have a lot of friends who are grieving this decision as they remember how valuable their experience in the CDSP/GTU consortium was. But the farmer reaps from the seed that was sown, and it’s all really just “one more” domino to fall in the collapsing structure of “the Episcopal Church as we once knew it.”

[@coffeebreaktheology2634]

It seems they asked for critical theory but expected critical race theory?

[@dianastevenson131]

I got the impression from the meeting that Calvin recorded that the two men who called him in don't know the difference. The email invitation said "Critical Theories" in the plural - maybe the email was written by someone else who knows more about it?

[@marmeemarch7080]

​@@dianastevenson131oh, that's an interesting theory. Distinctly possible, with them being in the Deep South.

[@chrisowen3111]

What IS feminism, George? There are several cultural waves of feminism, as you said, that draw on cultural Marxism or an un-Christian root. I wouldn't include Christ's counter-cultural treatment of women in his day as 'feminist'. For me Biblical teaching is just that, and feminism today comes from elsewhere.

[@ellen823ful]

You are right about the “elsewhere”.

[@williamwilkes503]

On the topic of weddings. It is commonplace for Oerhosoz Christians to seek a blessing from their priest when they're not certain of what they should do. A common scenario would be "Father, my friend and co-worker is getting married in a Protestant Church on Saturday.should I go to that wedding?" I think the typical response of his/her spiritual father would be. "yes, you should go to the ceremony to honor your friend; but do not join in prayer with the assembly and do not accept any literature they might offer you. Sit or stand in silence throughout the event." I'm thinking the same advice might be offered to someone asking for a blessing to attend a "gay wedding".

[@ellen823ful]

They walked out on Calvin as he was reading scripture. Interesting 🧐

[@marcokite]

yup...a bit of a give away

[@TheDCinSC]

I went to seminary as a Presbyterian at Erskine Theological Seminary, the seminary of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church. I became Anglican later but was blessed by my time there. It's not woke. I'm back as a D.Min. student and it's been a good experience

[@ellen823ful]

What do you like about your current studies?

[@TheDCinSC]

That I'm in the dissertation stage and can kind of sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[@caryyurk1388]

Greetings from Hong Kong. Kudos to your bishop, George! You are truly blessed with this godly man.

[@georgeconger2850]

Thank you. I am conscious of my good fortune in having a Godly leader.

[@Dave-cf4xq]

After listening to Farmers sermon there is absolutely no way you can interpret it any other way. He meant what he clearly said even in context of his full sermon that Calvin was demonically possessed. Please don't soften it. It is what he means.

[@smccarthymi]

I was disappointed with that point too. He said what he said, I would not be satisfied with him trying to color it after the fact. It wasn’t ambiguous.

[@marmeemarch7080]

I think the phrase to use would be demonically influenced. Full-on possession can't easily happen with a baptized, believing Christian, and I'd expect even a rather low church evangelical (what I presume +Farmer to be, perhaps mistakenly) to know that.

[@deanwheeler627]

Graduated from Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in Berkeley apart of the GTU. The seminary is but a shadow of its former self. I and my congregation left the ELCA in 2007.

[@ellen823ful]

It was so hard to leave ELCA! I love ❤️ the liturgy. I love ❤️ the hymns. (I Mighty Fortress is Our God! ) But I just had to. I’m so glad that I had that beginning. I can sing 🎶 the liturgy at the snap 🫰 of the fingers. My grandchildren will not know it. It is so sad 😞.

[@TheRev.ChuckBradshaw]

You mention Gordon-Conwell and Fuller as examples of orthodox seminaries that are doing well at a time when others are sinking or adrift. As far as I know, that reputation is well deserved. It doesn't mean they aren't experiencing serious challenges of declining enrollments and financial shortfalls. Not through any fault of their own, that I know of. We who "pride" ourselves on our doctrinal purity can't afford to gloat over the troubles of the "other side." "Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall." (1 Corinthians 10:12) I am a 1992 graduate of

[@lizgriffin7381]

Such a deep discussion of difficult issues!

[@787Earl]

God bless you. Thank you. Our parish is in the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth . I like our former and current Bishops. I have a great respect for Bishop Ray Sutton REC .

[@787Earl]

I have a belief that there are equal numbers of male mothers as orthodox female priests.

[@filigree123]

@@787Earl ??

[@787Earl]

there are zero male mothers@@filigree123

[@marmeemarch7080]

​@@filigree123 lol

[@annakimborahpa]

1. It would not surprise me if Pope Francis received the Pope Honorius treatment after his passing by a future pope and perhaps a council, and I don't mean having honors graciously bestowed upon him. 2. Considering Pope Honorius I (d. 638) in the words of Anglo-Irish scholar J.B. Bury, who was the Regius Professor of Modern History at the University of Cambridge and a Professorial Fellow of King's College, Cambridge from 1902 until his death in 1927: "It was for the 'imprudent economy of silence' that he (Honorius) was condemned." [John B. Bury, A history of the later Roman empire from Arcadius to Irene, Volume 2 (2005), p. 252] 3. Pastor Begg has become Alistair In Wonderland since he has entered Through The Looking Glass.

[@marcokite]

.......how about the Pope Formosus treatment!?? Now THAT would be interesting.

[@annakimborahpa]

Instead of the Cadaver Synod given to Pope Formosus, how about preservation by formaldehyde?

[@rjbahdu560]

Fr. Ripperger: If You Witness This Strange Act During the Holy Mass, Stand Up and Leave Right Away

[@johnhudghton3535]

For me, pre-theological training took place at Romsey House in Cambridge. It also trained missionaries for overseas. I think it failed because the missionary training funding dried up. My degree in Biblical Studies was at Sheffield University - a secular set up - still going strong. Ordination training was at Cranmer Hall, St.John's College, University of Durham. It's still there and my ordained son trained there!

[@jamesbarksdale978]

Whether one agrees with Calvin's assessment of feminism and it's development is one thing. His response, in my opinion, was not over the top. I think it was rather mild compared to how he was treated.

[@marcokite]

Agreed!! George is far too soft on this.

[@donaldrichey3318]

I usually agree with the fine gentlemen of Anglican Unscripted but being one of the clergy that was falsely accused of renouncing my orders due to my orthodox beliefs I stand with the Rev Robinson. He is being falsely accused of being demon possessed by a false teacher.

[@russ254]

right on!

[@janetsmiley6778]

C4SO has been a problem since it's inception.

[@georgeconger2850]

A quibble -- being possessed by an unclean spirit or demon possessed is not the same thing as being led by an unclean spirit. Demonic possession is when Satan or his minions have control over the person -- body and soul. This is exceedingly rare. Being led astray by a false spirit is very common, and all Christians will experience this. It comprises temptation, impure thoughts, moral blindness etc. I prefaced this by saying this is a quibble because I don't know if those trading accusations understand the language they are using. My prayer is that God's peace will reign.

[@davidsprouse151]

@@georgeconger2850 a surprisingly high number of reported child abuse cases occur in Christian families. It's not the majority, but I'd hardly call it "exteremely rare." There were 6000 accusations of pedophilia in the Catholic church, that's about 4% of all clergy. I'd argue that child abuse is a type of possession as opposed to being "led astray". Plenty of work for you George. But do get that exorcism insurance.

[@kenbeach5021]

@@georgeconger2850 The bishop made imo intemperate and inaccurate comments in his sermon. The reaction to this from evangelicals who disagree with him has itself often been intemperate. On Brett Murphy's comments section some are liking the bishop's comments to blaspheming the Spirit. In doing so they are becoming the mirror image of what they are criticising. On this occasion I think AS had a much better balance on this issue.

[@Waynemanor4eva]

Greeting from New Zealand :)

[@chrishewitt8538]

Wasn't John the Baptist provocative of Herod Antipas? Calvin sees women's ordination as wrong...should he keep quiet to 'comfort' the audience.

[@marcokite]

It sounds like George thinks he should!

[@johnsmusicbox7595]

I like the haircut and style. Keep up the good work guys! Greetings from Poland.

[@sharonjones931]

I love Kevin;

[@StPetersAnglicanChurch-j3q]

On second thought it probably isn’t a good idea for Calvin to be interviewed on AU.

[@marcokite]

Farmer's remarks were not simply 'bone headed', they were disgusting, obscene and it's clear what he meant. There is NO 'charitable interpretation' regarding what Farmer said. Listening to Farmer's sermon one must have concerns as to his mental health, poor guy. Calvin's response was actually quite measured, George is being far too soft on this issue.

[@Geonova74]

Kevin says he does not judge in first story. Then in later story digs at those who "swum the tiber and drowned"

[@dianastevenson131]

I think that was just a joke.

[@russ254]

26:08 did you know that when Jesus denounced money lenders in the temple that Jesus was actually in front of money lenders, in a temple? Who knew?

[@georgeconger2850]

Are any of us Jesus? He who is without sin can caste the first stone, Jesus responds to the crowd who seek to stone the woman caught in adultery.. Jesus spoke with authority about his father's house -- who among us can speak with this authority?

[@Poor-Wayfarer]

Then no one can say anything?

[@georgeconger2850]

No one can claim the authority off Jesus.

[@Poor-Wayfarer]

I surrender to your judgement.

[@marcokite]

I'm sure George would say the Lord was being too polemical.

[@davidmorrison2739]

An invitation to a same-sex wedding. You can't go to what doesn't exist. Or can you?

[@gusmacdonald4669]

Three thoughts..… i) I understand that they put out an empty chair to highlight the fact that Calvin Robinson had been ‘de-platformed’ (horrible word!). I think that’s a bit nasty…..is that attitude perhaps a bit like as if Joseph had planned not to put Mary away quietly but instead had planned to parade her publicly for her assumed 'adultery'? ii) I do think we need to argue less by proof-texts and more in context of the whole ‘meta-narrative’. In the case of feminism and homosexuality (& the connection between them) a better argument would be the fact that the ‘MALE/FEMALE’ distinction is revealed in Scripture as fundamental to creation - with Adam & Eve equally God’s IMAGE….but with their RELATIONSHIP being an IMAGE of the relationship between God and creation (Adam ‘representing’ God and Eve ‘corresponding’ to God). Is that why Paul seems to link homosexuality with idolatry - the denial of the Creator - creation relationship? The PROOF is that male-female relationship is FULFILLED in ACTUALITY at the marriage of Christ (God) and his bride (the church) at the end of this age. For ALL believers, the day of judgement is also OUR WEDDING DAY! That argument sounds better to me than quoting small numbers of verses rigidly….. iii) In the ongoing ‘Alistair Begg affair’, Alistair has explained his thinking….that there might be a time to attend a ‘non-marriage, marriage’ as long as the people involved know our position on it! Alaistair also admitted freely he could be wrong but refused to be pushed into a humiliating kind of ’repentance’ by bullies! When Paul disputed (‘reasoned’) with Peter to his face to persuade him to take a different attitude, he didn’t demand an instant ‘de-platforming’.

[@butchshadwell3613]

Calvin's speech was time constrained. There was no time for a complete defense of his thesis.

[@johnhudghton3535]

I identify with George's position on women in ministry. It is a Biblical perspective I hold, not a feminist one. I abhor feminism and all the cultural Marxist "isms". I draw the line on women Bishops though, that is where the headship line is drawn for me.

[@davidsprouse151]

Marxism's never really been tried....

[@johnmckillop3820]

Fr. George...do you celebrate Candlemas at your church?

[@georgeconger2850]

No we don't.

[@johnmckillop3820]

Not enough money in the candle fund?@@georgeconger2850

[@marcokite]

@@georgeconger2850 - Your poor congregation, being deprived of so much.

[@sharonjones931]

I love Fr George and I love Fr Calvin. Thank you t

[@DonalLeader]

I love N. T. Wright. And I admire your inclusive pastoral approach. There are things better unsaid.

[@justinclemente7768]

Swam the tigress....best moment 😂.

[@rleix]

Honest question: Is Calvin Robinson an Anglican?

[@davidwhite5233]

If we are to retreat from feminist theology and culture, it will be a long walk back, just as we have got to where we are by a long road.

[@mrbaker7443]

The Church needs to build Tallahassee Bridges ?

[@kenbeach5021]

The bishop has now apologised to Calvin Robinson both privately and publicly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYe2pZydg5eeack

[@Shikuesi]

27:25 - "They wanted him to be a token black conservative Anglican" -- token black or token conservative?

[@andrewadkins533]

Questions behind the question at hand concerning Calvin Robinson remarks are the tension between ascription and achievement; and between participation and authority. Adherents to women’s holy orders conflate participation and authority on account of prophetic sensibilities concerning the imago Dei. For such, authority is shared by all, in fact or in principle. For authority to be authority (hierarchy) in the priestly sense, some are disqualified (do not participate) through no fault of their own due to sovereign divine judgment concerning the incarnational relation between doctrine and iconology (ascription) and others are disqualified on various grounds pertaining to a particular individual’s ethical status, heretical convictions, or competence. Let us not forget, most men are not priests; and many, many men are not qualified. Adherence to feminine holy orders for libertarians, rather than for utopians, is asserted on quantitative grounds. Rather being qualified; such women are quantified for ministry (acquiring core competencies). This view is inherently iconoclastic, and thus not priestly. Is such tension here on individualist grounds truly prophetic or falsely so? Or, is it the laïcisation of the clerical role?

[@davidsprouse151]

How are your people skills?

[@andrewadkins533]

I invite the reader to consider that my people skills are quite beside the point. I myself am quite beside the point. Such a question in response to ideation implies ad hominem. Dismiss the speaker to dismiss what is spoken.

[@marmeemarch7080]

These are deep questions and ideas. The forum of comments is rather strained for them.

[@Lyle-ke4ex]

Just go a little deeper an angle of light so to speak is behind all this confusion and mistalk

[@Mark_Dyer]

The biggest news about Calvin Robinson is that the dear man has had a haircut! As for the charge of "lack of charity", believe me, as a homosexual Christian man, coming out during the early 1970s, this was a charge I can level at the Church at that time: and can still level at certain churchpeople to this day, for the sheer relish they take at levelling 'insults', concealed as 'pastoral care'. It is their use of vocabulary which gives them away. They love Latin and Greek medical terms almost as much as they love scriptural ones! You Gentlemen do, indeed, treat those of us with differing opinions with respect: but others, known to you, do not. They are simply rude! KEVIN I am so sorry to learn of your own - and the difficuties of other parents - who have children who have expelled them from their lives. However, this is not a new phenomenon. I had a father who was violent and jealous: I left home for university in 1971 (leaving my three surviving siblings to deal with him), and I NEVER returned. I had abslute contempt for the man. Now, in my own 'old age', I appreciate that he and my mother stuck together, until we had all flown the nest. I appreciate the stresses he must have had in raising five children: the sheer responsibility of that task beats me. My prayer is that your children will not leave it as late as I have - when my parents are gone - to let them know that I do appreciate what they did for us. Half my family is from the far North of Scotland, too: and they were rather 'narrow' in outlook. Thus, I expelled them from my life, too; until a dear Scots cousin "reached out" to my partner and me, around thirty years ago; because one of her daughters is also homosexual. The rich tapestry of human life, eh? I remain worried, however, by the claims of many Christians that Jesus of Nazareth taught THE truth: particularly after the assurances of other human beings, recently, that they were following THE science. The only 'truth' implicit, and assumed, in Jesus' teachings as a Jew, is that GOD IS. Apart from that, scholars continue to debate - to this day - the significance of almost everything Jesus said, and did. He certainly did not teach that the scriptures (the Hebrew Tanakh) were the "words of God, Himself", as many 'Muslim-Christians' believe today. All he taught (if the word 'all' is appropriate) is that the scriptures were fulfilled in his presence. As to what that 'fulfilment' looks like, the Kingdom of God is another of those topics which is never-ending.

[@davidsprouse151]

I see how gay people (on average) sublimate all the shame, discrimination, violence into improving themselves in different ways esp viz book-smarts. I think that's why we're seeing such a surge in the representation of LGBQTIA+ people in academia. (aka "the liberal elite🙃). Also, almost by necessity they are forced to become street-smart. Sublimation can be a productive defense mechanism; repression less so.

[@marmeemarch7080]

I disagree with much of your worldview, but appreciate that you keep coming back here. You keep the idea of "how *do* we interpret the Scriptures" in front of us all.

[@Mark_Dyer]

@@marmeemarch7080 Thank you, Marmee.

[@TheRev.ChuckBradshaw]

sorry, there's a demon in my laptop, and I seem unable to complete this comment now

[@davidrudd2215]

The headship of men and helper role for women is a creation-order issue. This is what Paul indicated in 1 Timothy 2, and was clearly stated in Genesis 2. Genesis 3 tells of how the serpent sought to subvert this God-given order, and succeeded in deceiving Eve into taking the lead, whilst Adam in weak disobedience stood by and watched, before succumbing himself.

[@marmeemarch7080]

"Helper" is not a good English word for the Hebrew one, if you're referencing Genesis 2:18, 20. "Partner" is closer. I think we need to try to be as careful as we can with understanding and applying Holy Scripture.

[@davidrudd2215]

@@marmeemarch7080 Yes, fair point, complementary roles. Still, headship, eldership or leadership in Scripture seems to be reserved for suitably qualified men.

[@lancersharpe]

Let's all remember, however talented Calvin is, as far as I can see he has only a basic two year formal education in theology. I've actually found his arguments against women's orders quite agricultural and 'proof-texty'. There's not much nuance there especially in his conversations with Brett Murphy. A Doctor of Divinity he is not - yet! Calling him demon possessed is very, very nasty though.

[@davidsprouse151]

How do you see him as talented?

[@kenbeach5021]

I fear the road to deception is paved with nuance. The problem with women in leadership, as opposed to all the many other ministries they can and should do, is that the text on this is not difficult to understand. The difficulty is in doing what it says.

[@lancersharpe]

@davidsprouse151 In building a media profile at least. We are talking about him after all.

[@marmeemarch7080]

​@@kenbeach5021 ouch. "All the other ministries they can and should do," didja hav'ta call me out? 😀

[@kenbeach5021]

@@marmeemarch7080 Would it help to talk about it? 🙂 I think the ranks of egalitarians are sometimes swelled by complementarians who use the 'silent women' verses to prevent women from contributing anything spiritual to the common good of a local fellowship. In other words we need to avoid the twin evils of modern feminism _and_ sexism.

[@johndavey8683]

C'mon man! The Walton interview wasn't 'just' journalism as he offered opinion and critique of Calvin's speech, including the assertion that terms used were insufficiently precise and to my ear, Walton seemed to be suggesting that Calvin was stretching a point. This was beyond mere reporting of events. Therefore I think that this may have been the root of some of the friction in the comments section!

[@davidknox5929]

Sorry about dters Kevin.We have son who no loner speaks to us.Far too much about Calvin.Ur views on Begg make no sense.Wedding in Cana was not Xian.

[@shanechellis2770]

But was the wedding sinful?

[@WelchC8289]

Bishop Farmer basically accused Father Calvin of being possessed by unclean spirits so that was greattttt 🙄

[@davidsprouse151]

Looks like George has been sniffin the glue again!

[@marcokite]

never off it!

[@richardhindley4459]

Hi from Barnsley, Yorkshire in the north of England. Thank you both for a really grace filled, wise and honest discussion of the Calvin Robinson situation. I agree with Calvin on most things (apart from women's orders - as a conservative evangelical bible scholar, my assessment is that the biblical case for women's orders is cast iron). But he can be very destructive in pursuit of his agenda. He tries to justify it as upholding the truth, but he often doesn't speak the truth in love, and he sometimes doesn't speak the truth at all. Along with his sidekick in the Free CofE, Brett Murphy, he has appointed himself the arbiter of heresy and apostasy: He, Calvin Robinson, believes that he somehow has the authority to declare others, and even whole denominations, heretical or apostate. That is destructive to the fabric of the church. He needs to step away from the public eye and learn anew the humility of Christ. One thing I must push back on Kevin about is that it's simply not good enough to excuse Calvin's excesses on the grounds of "Oh, that's just Calvin being Calvin." He is an ordained presbyter. He should be modelling growth in Christ likeness.

[@jamesbarksdale978]

I think the ACNA is compromised, and has been from the start. The dual integrities agreement on women's ordination is now revealing itself as the elephant in the room, since it kept getting ignored. And he's not happy. I doubt that the ACNA will be able to continue as a unified body. A division is inevitable. When this will happen is anyone's guess. Lord have mercy!

[@robertirwin7644]

I’m a fan of you guys but your treatment of the Alistair Begg story was woefully inadequate and not quite accurate. I believe he is Baptist, not Presbyterian. The story is more nuanced than you reported, and the admission that one of you would go to a Gay wedding reception might also show you in a compromised light by some.

[@georgeconger2850]

He is a Scottish Baptist who serves an independent Presbyterian church I believe

[@georgeallen7887]

Thank you George for talking about the pastoral tasks.

[@georgeconger2850]

It is one of the most important missing elements in this affair, I believe.

[@nigeljones2811]

The trouble is, Kevin, can you really say that you treat those with whom you disagree “with respect” when you say that their genuinely held beliefs are demonic and such like?

[@davidsprouse151]

That's the elephant in the room...

[@anniegemmill6990]

It was a shame you did such a pared down version of the Alistair Begg story. It did not reflect what he actually said or the context in which he gave the advice. You gave the impression he has sold out which is most unfair. Better to not go for a story than to misrepresent it in 4 minutes.

[@tonyoliver2750]

Excellent discussion.

[@TempleofChristMinistries]

Kevin when you said, I love you because you are my son, I love you because you are my brother, it is no different than saying I love you because you are gay, I love you because you are queer, you are still doing it because of who the other person is, loves loves because it is love, I love you whom ever you are why, because I love.

[@brotherathelstan8818]

I admired Calvin for his passion for the gospel, but George is correct. In Calvin I see a media man rather than a compassionate servant of Christ. A novice minister, not an experienced priest. The defining characteristics of a Christian appear absent (Coll 3: 12-17): humility, meekness, kindness and compassion. If he is so against women's orders I wonder why he wanted to become a priest in the CofE. It appears, to me, that his apparent loathing of the CofE only became manifest after his rejection by the Church of England Ministry Division. I believe he claims that God called him in order that he could use broadcasting skills as a means of furthering the gospel. That may be so. But it is not evidence of a call to the priesthood. He needs to step out of the limelight, roll up his sleeves, and commit himself to nothing other than the pastoral and spiritual needs of his flock. He should stop parading his newly acquired clerical collar for the world to see and start ministering to those most in need. Only then may he be recognised and accepted as a genuine minister of the Church. He must have known of the Church of England's broadness in it's theology and ministry when he began his training. One of the reasons why I became an Anglican is BECAUSE it is a broad Church. Bishop Libby Lane once said 'I'm glad that I belong to a Church that allows opposition to be voiced. That we can disagree with each other yet still belong to one another in Christ'. Like many churches, our parish church also contains differing viewpoints - but although we may disagree with each other on certain issues, we do not condemn each other. I do not condemn Calvin! I just wish he would accept alternative opinions with the grace that is becoming of a genuine priest.

[@georgetravers9333]

First wave Christianity - rose from the dead Second wave Christianity - Virgin Birth Third wave Christianity - God Himself Fourth wave Christianity - LGBTQ I am just at first wave John the Baptist: repent, then find the truth that sets you free. Priestcraft and Witchcraft just teach that your imagination about Jesus, will save you

[@dianastevenson131]

A brilliant observation. After many years of study I'm now First wave John the Baptist too, which means that I'm Jewish basically. Do Teshuva.

[@georgetravers9333]

@@dianastevenson131 This finger of John that pointed to the way, (baptism of repentance with water), to the truth, (baptism of spirit from remorse and forgiveness), to live the unattached, non-ish life. Turning water into wine. In the world but not of the world. Culture and Religion, no longer the Protected Characteristics of cattle-prodders with their permitted and unpermitted carrot-sticks of slavery. The gnashing of teeth ensues.

[@mrbaker7443]

@@dianastevenson131one can lose one’s foreskin for that

[@marcokite]

Muddled remark. The Virgin Birth, the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, Pentecost are ALL 'first wave' Christianity. SAINT John the Baptist pointed to the Lord Jesus as the Lamb of God and the ONLY thing that 'sets you free'.

[@georgetravers9333]

@@marcokite The earliest writings, those of St Paul, had no mention of the Immaculate Conception. The oldest synoptic gospel had no Virgin Birth when describing the life of Jesus. This I'd call, first wave Churchianity. The cult of personality. Whereas first wave John the Baptist, like feminism, was about 'the truth will set you free'. The reality of the cult of locked-minds oppressing others. Both were healing ministries, to return you unslaved, Back to your life with whatever faith or belief you wanted to hold. Just to love your god, and treat your neighbors as yourselves. As individuals once more. But both got hijacked by Priests and Priestesses. Professional grievance mongers. Now decreeing it is only by faith in their True Faith, are you saved. Creaing look alikes, sound alikes and act alikes. Unbelievers be damned. Fourth wave. Nothing muddled if this keeps on repeating itself to control the masses.

[@JohnVianneyPatron]

Anglican Unscripted has lost all my respect when they lied about Calvin saying he was not able to be on your show, which he has since rebutted saying he would have loved to state his case on your show. Unsubscribe!

[@matthewwilkinson2170]

For chastising all sides for not being charitable, your critique of Mere Anglicanism is pretty damn uncharitable

[@marmeemarch7080]

How so, exactly?

[@andrewnotere6033]

I’m afraid I do t have much time left for C Robinson. I have concluded he is a publicity seeker and an ecclesiastical charlatan.

[@caryyurk1388]

Unfortunately, this seems to be what is happening. We need to earnestly pray for Calvin at this time.

[@janetsmiley6778]

He's definitely a bull in a china shop.

[@shanechellis2770]

Certainly makes it convenient

[@User_Happy35]

For speaking the truth about women's ordination? The problem is the Anglicans in charge at the conference didn't want to address the elephant in the room. Everyone wants to proceed as though all is well when it isn't. Bishop Farmer using the pulpit to attach Calvin is wholly disgraceful. No wonder the church removed the video of the sermon on Facebook. Embarrassing.

[@JohnVianneyPatron]

Tired of the way you two regularly slander Pope Francis (that's a sin, George)! What Pope Francis has done is provided for people in irregular situations (divorced & remarried / LGBT unions) to receive non-liturgical, spontaneous blessings, should they ask for it and thus is intended to enable them to receive the graces necessary to live a life in keeping with Christian teaching. The African case is special because there is a very real threat of harm (jail time/executions) in Africa for people who identify as LGBT. In such a case this provision would not apply to ministers there because it may place people in real danger. "Pope Francis Commissions Women Bishops" is not just click-bait it's calumny. Please more is expected of you two! (Especially if George wants to wear a Roman collar)!