Anti-Hardkill ATGMs?

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[@jesusofbullets]

APS detects targets and predicts their trajectory. As long as it's not predicted to hit the tank, it doesn't active hardkill.

[@nicktzan]

I think it is intentional as the aps shouldn't react to a threat that "misses" the tank.

[@osmacar5331]

you are correct, but also missing some semantics on some systems, however, i too am missing those for i do not have the classified documents. but at least i am not a moron and can figure things out. some APS systems have high angle of defence. others it's functionally an area horizontal to the tank. it purely depends on the system set up. but for the most part it's a dirty great big ring around (the rosies) the tank

[@Andrey_Gysev]

Yeah, googled it and you are right. APS checks via radar if a projectile aims to the tank or not and then it locks on that projectile and counters it. If a projectile flies over tank - it does nothing, as well as if it flies under, or lefter/righter.

[@sagichnichtsowiesonicht7326]

@@Andrey_Gysev if the round is a static round, like an RPG-7 rocket, sure it will not react and let it miss, modern APS can detect ATGMs and will engage regardless, Iron-Fist is currently being updated for FPV drones. the TOW-2B is much older than current APS, so these APS have been designed with ATGMs such as TOW-2B in mind. the relevant factor is the angle of attack Drozd might have problems because it faces forward with the turret, while iron-fist can move independent of the turret.

[@seasuper3402]

Thing is that it engaged the missile if you aim at the tank but the missile would still fly over since top attack missiles fly above your reticle

[@IvanTre]

TOW2B also doesn't really kill tanks..takes like 3-4 missiles usually. Trash tier weapon.

[@madfluffyfox8739]

What people tend to forget is 99% of APS is designed to straight on attacks, so they are aligned to detect threats coming from the front or the sides. They usually aren’t aiming upwards so they can’t detect or shoot them. Now some do, like technically the Black Knight should be able to, but again they aren’t for top down attacks, they are for direct attacks

[@deltacommand4393]

Would make sense for Drozd to not react, as I imagine its vertical firing arc is too small, but Iron Fist not reacting definitely feels wrong.

[@Andrey_Gysev]

No, they both check if a projectile aims into a tank at all. If a projectile flies over/under/leftier/rightier the tank it doesnt lock onto that projectile and doesnt try to counter it.

[@sturmgeschutze3070]

@@Andrey_GysevI mean no because all the test footage of iron fist and trophy shows the APS reacting to a threat that isn’t going directly towards it…

[@deltacommand4393]

@@Andrey_Gysev Thats ingame mechanics, which is true. I was more referring to how its supposed to work in real life.

[@zeitgeistx5239]

“Feels”. Not to mention anti APS rockets already existed since the mid 2000s and Russia and fielded them and Ukrainians regularly are seen with captured ones. APS use MMW radar which the Russian rocket counters by firing a small decoy a fraction of a second ahead of the main rocket.

[@deltacommand4393]

@@zeitgeistx5239 problem is in the video they're clearly using TOW-2B, which doesn't have the anti-APS behaviour.

[@nekurumi1825]

US players: "What is APS?"

[@Error-5478]

Sep v3 should get its APS. But US top tier is about a decade behind everyone else. Sep v2 was around 2006 while the new Leopards T90's and Challengers are all very recent.

[@jPlanerv2]

@@Error-5478 yep

[@zeta4687]

german main: this is fine

[@octraine]

​@Error-5478 the challenger 3 doesn't count it's hardly a tank and was strapped together by gaijin

[@laucarson6745]

German players: "What is APS?"

[@bluefleet1655]

on a different note, its still a shame the tow-2b is still a heat charge still when it should be a breaching charge

[@einar8019]

do you mean a EFP?

[@giathuanleviet4138]

also they supposed to have two projectile fire at the same time to disable ERA

[@HinFoo]

yes? always has been, thats the perk of using the cv90 bill

[@ar0568]

Fucking love the cv90 bill

[@wylttkod_]

its prob cus the APS can only intercept 20 degrees up so the TOW2B is out of range for it

[@kouyou3850]

検証ありがとうございました☝️🤓

[@konkaj3055]

There is currently a bug where if you get ammoracked but don't die and replenish ammo it doesn't show on x-ray view and in the bottom left corner it is shown as "black". I think it would be an interesting idea to test if it can be exploaded or not again. It happened to me twice: once in 10.0 puma and once in bmp-3

[@cat_clan_leader]

PUMA can survive as it has blowout panels. However I'm not sure about the BMP-3, that's weird

[@konkaj3055]

@@cat_clan_leader i mean sometimes ammo just dissapears instead of exploading but the bug happens after you replenish it

[@wyk3548]

Hmm another use for tow 2b

[@Space_Reptile]

I feel like this is intended behaviour for top down missiles, kinda part of the design

[@Tank_Kim]

전차의 포탑 위로 조준하여 발사한 TopAttack ATGM을 견제할수 있는 수단이 현재로선 없는걸로 알고있습니다 센서가 차량에 달려있지, 차량 위의 허공에 달려있지 않기 때문인것으로 추정해볼수 있겠습니다

[@n1co2017]

nah mostly just because most Hardkill APS detect the trajectory of an incoming projectile and engage said projectile if it's on a trajectory to hit the tank so Top-Down ATGMs' such as the Tow-2B circumvent this by having a trajectory that "misses" the target

[@illegalaryan823]

This isnt news, the Drozd always had a low vertical angle of protection, its designed to defeat head on attacks and nothing else.

[@T97MSZ]

it's also bugged for the iron fist, watch the entire thing first before you comment

[@AkagiStan]

This is probably just some kind of bug, if you aim at the tank and it flies over naturally trophy and iron fist will still hit it. You have to aim VERY high for the sensors to not classify it as a threat. Trophy also just flat out doesn't work at all right now

[@mostsacredstories]

APS systems fail against vertical attacks and top down munitions. So this is more accurate than expected.

[@helicopter7762]

thanks you for this video, i was just thinking what the tow-2B would be like for the wiesel 1a2 and i was hoping they would be good and for some reason i thought they would suck buttcheeks in comparison to the tow-2A, and now im getting close too having researched the tow-2B

[@bzipoli]

i'm surprised to see how many people in the comments don't know how modern APS works or the actual top down munitions have to do in order to avoid APS. they surely don't cross right in front of the tank before impact

[@noahsawesomevids422]

Ooo nice :) can’t wait to get m3a3 with the top attack misil

[@СалаватАбашев-е6щ]

It's almost as if APS has an effective angle at which it can react to missile innit?

[@nickkozak4763]

when you realize Drozid has a low angle of protection

[@nickkozak4763]

@alb9229 when you realize i don’t need to know this useless info cuz you mad it’s off a few degrees

[@V1OIWTF]

Hence the DIT vs PIT argument for APS. Should an aps actively attempt to shoot down Potential Incoming Threats aswell or only Direct Incoming Threats. There's only split seconds to decide and sometimes, that aps just won't fire at A PIT.

[@V1OIWTF]

There are some prototype PIT only aps but they're never fielded, because "what ifs" aren't enough to justify an entire new system

[@bottoms_up2175]

If Russians can't counter top down, nobody can, Gaijin logic...

[@dinaplayswarthunder]

they can't tho

[@raihanwidodo1042]

Instead of some armor gap that're less than 7.62mm wide this bug might be usable in battle

[@jabaited]

Welp, understand why my T-55AMD sometimes protect me from ATGM and sometimes don't now, i recall most of the time i died to Heli's ATGM and TOW

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Also AMD APS has low vertical defence angles, missile can be just outside of APS firing arc.

[@Ghent_Halcyon]

Well this is a fix for Droz as it can’t aim up that high, or really aim at all, but iron fist should be fixed.

[@CogniTito]

I survived more atgm shots form this hardkill Aps than the softkill one form T-80 UK

[@sakwa2944]

WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!! IVE BEEN DOING THIS FOREVER NOW ITS GOING TO GET PATCHED

[@rags417]

It IS intentional. The APS predicts the path of the incoming missile and if it detects a miss it won't fire. Pretty obvious really.

[@galaxy_man7759]

I tought it was only on russians, dont know how their aps works but the placement of the aps seems to me lik it cant go up to destroy the atgm but iron fist on challanger looks like it could.

[@KauppaKomissaari]

Oh thsmats so funny if someone is over confodent agsinst an atgm carrier

[@YoRHaUnit2Babe]

It's because 2B is too thicc to stop

[@USSR.T-90A]

What about CM25?

[@noir5697]

I hate the change with how tow2b handle

[@cmanmaxwell]

Where is my leo 2a8 with iron fist gaijin!?!?

[@cmanmaxwell]

Also don't forget Canada get's the 2a7 with iron fist, the specs should be the same as 2a8. Also they both get a .50 cal.

[@Kasplaysothergames]

i think its so u dont shoot down friendly missiles

[@안승민-q8z]

일본 경전차 89식전차에있는 79식대전차 미사일 2가지중 뭔차이가 있는건가요?

[@markusreed5447]

so at what BR am i supposed to see this Hardkill? I ask because the Wiesel at 9.7 doesn't seem to face those

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

8.7

[@benrboss]

Does the bill also do this

[@asilkagangumus]

tow 2b is still so op broo 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀😔😔😔😔😔😔

[@shokhrukhmukhitdinov8970]

They made it even worse in the last update. Now it's harder to control the missile

[@Anorexic_Clown]

not to mention the 9040 bill has a fixed launcher so the atgm will either fly in to space on an incline or into the dirt on a decline making it so much harder to use as you need to be in a perfect position to use them, its also funny that the atgms on the bmp-2m also got nerfed but is still as potent as it was before the nerf

[@alvarovillatoro5187]

Merkava mk4?

[@roboticintelligenceunit1a652]

Wonder if this works irl?

[@alexmaximus9134]

I'm so glad i quit this game. Tow-2Bs were annoying enough, now they can ignore their hard counter too. If the tow 2B was a russian missile and if it could so that, so many people would cry russian bias.

[@Zenitchik_130]

TOW-2A is (in general) way better, this specific thing happens because trajectory of the missile is predicted to miss tank anyway so APS doesn't react to it. The issue should be that TOW-2B deals way too much damage flying this high over target. I would guess that it's over-tuned cause 2B is underused and tandem charge 2A being way more common

[@alexmaximus9134]

@@Zenitchik_130 Idk about that. From my experience fighting against tow missiles, i have been killed way more with tow 2Bs than with tow 2As.

[@blanchbacker]

@@alexmaximus9134the 2B is fucking awful. What’s bias is your gameplay memory. It takes so many to kill. If it were Russian it would one-shot like it should.

[@alexmaximus9134]

@@blanchbacker But it isn't. I very rarely got killed by tow 2As. I got killed more by tow 2Bs. And it doesn't really take that many to kill a target. I either died instantly to it or died on the second one. If they added a russian version, even if it was a copy paste to this one, people would still find a way to complain about it somehow being better.

[@imbored8072]

!

[@romeo_theFemboy]

first yeah

[@Gamingwith3budi]

second

[@cornellio]

third

[@Ziflin]

That’s just gaijin bullshit

[@absolutelyscrumptious7552]

I feel it might have something to do with not accidentally destroying an allied missile maybe? Say a friendly ATGM flew close to you, your APS would hit it under normal circumstances. But maybe they added a line-of-sight thing so the APS only activates if the player controlling the ATGM is looking directly at the tank. Without him looking at you, the game thinks nobody is shooting at you with the missile, thus preventing the APS Maybe, I'm theory crafting here

[@TheNicestPig]

That's wrong since APS also destroys things like unguided rockets or even shells.

[@absolutelyscrumptious7552]

@TheNicestPig Turns out I'm right. Although I worded it funny. APS uses radar to detect whether a threat is going to hit or not, and won't activate for non-threats. In-game it probably works the exact same way

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@absolutelyscrumptious7552 Well modern stuff can and should detect and intercept Tow2B (and soon drones too), and it doesnt work for it in WT.

[@absolutelyscrumptious7552]

@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 Very likely a case of the Gaijin-Special then As per usual

[@TheNicestPig]

@@absolutelyscrumptious7552 No you are not. The game does not register if anyone is "pointing" at you. What matters is the trajectory of the object, regardless of whether anyone is "looking directly at the tank". One is proper modelling of system, the other is a game cutting corner technique. War Thunder can be strangely detailed with their modelling sometimes, with the sensor systems modelling actual radar properties and phenomenons.

[@Danny__608]

What about trophy aps?

[@Zenturion7]

can't either

[@AkagiStan]

trophy is totally broken and doesn't work against anything right now