AP Bruisers: Why Are There So Few Of Them? | League of Legends

[@VarsVerum]

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[@fsdggsdf]

you forgot about gwen

[@gkarak1996]

@@fsdggsdf I was about to say that

[@KadiusFTW]

You also forgot Alistar and morgana as an ap bruser, similarly they can both be played with everfrost and fimblewinter to play as a hyper ap tank that can peel

[@deirasjankauskas3381]

What about gnar?

[@Demonovoe]

“I don’t wanna run into 4000 hp Veigar who still oneshots me” Late game full tank Veigar: Allow me to introduce myself

[@nsreturn1365]

min 40 4000 hp and 200 armor with 1.6 k ap

[@ceetee3370]

@@nsreturn1365 with a banshees. 🤢🤮

[@blueqion9488]

I mean Veigars last 2 items are mostly full tank items. He only needs Everfrost Rabadons and Void Staff and then he mostly takes items like Anathema's Chains, Gargoyle Stoneplate, Force of Nature and Dead Man's Plate.

[@caledvwych1366]

My favorite mid lane build to play.

[@golden-kappa5921]

But the thing is tank veigar will never work in the early and midgame you would have to build full ap then once you get enough ap you sell your items and build tank

[@Burnin.]

I feel like talking about Gwen would have been important, since she is the incarnation of AP Dps with her Q and E. She also builds lots of the AP Bruiser Items, making her very viable for this list.

[@selenivee]

I was wondering why Gwen wasn't on this list

[@zeusz3237]

And she has inbuilt lifesteal like most bruisers too. It is not that only bruisers have it, but it is an iportant stat for them. I actually really like gwen and I would say... Maybe she is the only bruiser(like [if not exactly]) champ I play if I would have to answer quickly.

[@LordBanana0]

Didn’t riot market Gwen as a AP bruiser when she was getting teased

[@The_White]

I'm pretty sure Gwen is an AP skirmisher and not a bruiser since she has consistently high mobility and persistent damage from her Thousand Cuts. She is a Skirmisher

[@baptistecochennec5956]

@@The_White skirmisher and bruiser are the same

[@millankumar9245]

No AP bruiser iteams (mostly). Also the way their sustained damage comes across: an AD bruiser (like Darius) has decent base tankyness, self-protection (Q self-heal), but has good sustained damage, all of his abilities apply his DoT, but he can also auto attack. Comparatively, a Rumble's damage comes almost entirely from abilites. Many AP bruisers have an artificial auto attack buff, Rumble has overheat, Mordekaiser's autos apply the passive AoE burn, but really only Gwen's autos deal enough sustained damage to fight against an AD bruiser. (A Rumble would never stat check a Darius if they are both in auto range)

[@doodlegarbage6769]

This about sums it up - The lack of designed AP bruiser items. The champion's kit has to make up for the lack of items with essentially its own items. That can consume power budget easily.

[@franconunez925]

@@doodlegarbage6769 I mean, the only two ap bruisers that I can see being reguraly usefull in the meta wich are Morde and Rumble get most of the "magic yet tanky" stats from their abilities(mostly their shields and natural magic pen) when they build Riftmaker if that, then demonic embrace and after that they just go full tank or full mage.

[@ΔημήτρηςΛάππας-θ7η]

Paladins enjoyer spotted, opinion tolerated

[@vsauce1066]

maybe diana can win against gwen in aa idk

[@vsauce1066]

i would say, swain gwen and vlad are bruisers too!! like vlad has to combo and has no mobillity etc

[@stonezhang4617]

Gragas doesn’t even feel much like a bruiser, with his kit so centered around denial and disruption, he’s more like a tank

[@lissandrafreljord7913]

True

[@danha3107]

yup I was mildly disappointed when I started playing him, expecting a bruiser. Every guide plays him more like an assassin and his kit is, like you said, more tank-like

[@_castro]

Hes kinda split between a tank and an assassin i'd say

[@Super_Top_Secret_Area]

That's because he's technically not an AP bruiser, people just used to call him that because the legacy class system classified him as a fighter/mage. In reality, Gragas is just a Vanguard, that being a type of tank. But in his case, building AP is actually reasonable because of his good scaling.

[@lorieslori8051]

I see most people building everfrost and playing him like a mage

[@MrBubbabolly]

A bruiser item that's gotten too big for it's britches recently and moved outside of it's intended role is deaths dance. You can build it on any ad champ and it'll work.

[@squidproquo4803]

it sucks on ranged champs

[@Onefishygal]

@@squidproquo4803 jhin be like

[@ptbro3334]

@@squidproquo4803 samira,akshan,vayne,quinn build it

[@MrBubbabolly]

@@squidproquo4803 I disagree.

[@oopajf61]

@@squidproquo4803 Not true

[@Night-Shade.]

"I don't wanna see a 4000 hp akali that can 1 shot" *_Tank Akali enters summoners rift_*

[@SaiKisaragi]

I feel like that'll be awful tho. Akali does like 30 damage with her entire kit, burns you to death with Sunfire while being invisible and then kills you with her ult lol

[@BlackfeatherMain]

@@SaiKisaragi tank akali was actually a thing a few months ago-they had to rework Chemtank because of it lmao

[@SaiKisaragi]

@@BlackfeatherMain ew wtf

[@BlackfeatherMain]

@@SaiKisaragi yeah it was awful lmao. Lots of high elo akali players played it be aise it was super strong.

[@Omnifarious42]

Akali atm has 3000 hp and one shots... So I don't really see the issue with another 1k hp...

[@Mahoken11]

Their items are just horrible. There has never been a time where AP bruiser items (do we even have those? lmao) have been better than AD bruiser items. Mythics: Riftmaker and Protobelt Riftmaker is just a worse Goredrinker, while Protobelt is too squishy and doesn't provide what AP bruisers want. Magic pen? Why? AD Bruisers have 4 mythics, which all at least have their own use. We don't have anything comparable to Death's Dance, Maw, Black Cleaver, or in the past, Steraks. We've got Rylai's for AP, HP, and a slow. We've got Demonic for AP, HP, and a burn... then there's Hourglass that is balanced around mages, since a stasis is much stronger on a squishy target. I don't want to stasis in the middle of the fight and lose my Conq stacks, passive stacks (as Morde), or have the enemy have time to reposition and get into kiting range. Give me something like DD or Maw that let you KEEP fighting while becoming durable. Also full builds generally only hit 15 - 25 Haste, while AD bruisers hit 70+ without even trying to itemize for it.

[@e9ari]

all facts

[@ДюсековИльяс]

But all items that are good on ap bruisers, will be absolutely broken on any mage.

[@nsreturn1365]

#crown of broken bullshit, imagine being able to face tank an entire rengar combo / talon and after proceed to kill him while taking onky 200 damge.

[@edde2429]

I'd argue thay Riftmaker is stronger than Goredrinker

[@edde2429]

It feels like ap bruisers don't have build options though. Riftmaker, get one ap bruiser item, maybe Zhonyas and then only tank items

[@Discotechque]

When you build Renekton as AP does he also become an AP bruiser cuz R AP scaling? WIZARD LIZARD

[@thundy8]

ha ha, no shut up this isnt about you man, let the ap bruisers have some fun

[@thundy8]

jk all love

[@franconunez925]

Common mage: But you don't know how to shoot that thing. Renekton: Yes, but it still hits. *Proceeds to bonk with an unnecesarily big staff*

[@RapTapTap69]

This is the true way to play league. I'll let you in on a secret..... Double burn AP yorick.

[@SonOfSparda03]

@@RapTapTap69 please don't, at least in my games

[@cinderheart2720]

The closest thing we have to an AP bruiser item is...Nashor's Tooth. Most mages don't want it. The fact that Riftmaker has backloaded damage means that Riot knows that AP bruisers need something that most mages don't, I'm just not sure if it's enough.

[@stormgaren]

I always thought AP Skirmishers were more like AP Bruisers as well rather than Slayers. People like Gwen, Lillia, Diana and Elise.

[@heyitsmikey7572]

I thought that too

[@vsauce1066]

i would say, swain gwen and vlad are bruisers too!! like vlad has to combo and has no mobillity etc

[@mozzy2968]

@@vsauce1066 Vlad plays more like a burst mage

[@taitrinh8650]

@@mozzy2968 pre-rework Vlad was kinda battle-mage/ap Bruiser. The Empower Q just push him toward burst mage

[@UnacceptedBySocietyArtist]

Bruisers are supposed to be slow but tanky, Gwen Lillia Diana Elise etc. are not slow…

[@arefazadeh8243]

forgot about gwen too she was supposed to be a ap bruiser when they wanted to release her

[@The_White]

And then she became a skirmisher.

[@BlackfeatherMain]

gwen's got a ton of mobility that bruisers inherently lack in her 4 second cd dash on E

[@BlackfeatherMain]

@ً Is Aatrox counted as a skirmisher or a bruiser? I guess the line to me isn't clear.

[@BlackfeatherMain]

@ً So the difference is reliable combat mobility, typically tied to hurting an enemy? Gwen's dash gets massively reduced cooldown upon auto attacking an enemy and she can fairly effectively chase down most people in the game. Seems like a skirmisher to me

[@BlackfeatherMain]

@ً I was under the assumption that it was a one or the other type deal, not both. That's why he separated them in the video no?

[@azaleaadair9053]

Wouldn’t Gwen also be an ap bruiser of sorts?

[@danneltheflannel]

It's sort of interchangeable, but Gwen/ Sylas seem more of Fiora/Riven category than pure bruiser

[@thelostsoul9446]

I might be wrong somewhere, but isn't also Gwen an AP bruiser? She builds survivability AP items - sometimes even tank ones - and is melee?

[@fis001r]

Was thinking the same. Maybe she's missing because of her mobility which makes her a bit assassin like

[@malekyaseen64]

@@fis001r nah there is no way he classified her as assassin , i think he simply missed her (just like galio)

[@sleepycrow3849]

@@fis001r she IS designed to be a ap bruiser

[@volcanicviper5984]

Shes a skirmisher

[@gabriellevoelker8980]

@@volcanicviper5984 Sylas is also a skirmisher and I'd argue that he's more mobile, bursty, and squishier than she is (when Rumble, Singed, and Gragas are even less bruiser-like). Gwen thrives in extended combat, has decent durability, and has backloaded damage. I think it has to be a miss like the enhanced abilities video with Karma.

[@cutcutado]

Basically every AP item (with some exceptions) are made for shorter fights, there are only "extended fight" mythics for AP: Riftmaker and Liandry's, even then only one of them provides meaninful defense, and it's just because it's the only AP item that gives AP people sustain. Another point is, as i've said: Meaninful defense AP Defensive items are Crown, Banshee, Zhonya's.... and they all last for what? a few seconds or one hit. Why come AP champions get only Riftmemer for Sustain while AD bruisers have Jax's real weapon (that's sunderer btw), Anti-armor cleaver, Eclipse, Viegoblade, R.Hydra? AD champions also have stuff like Maw of Malmorbius and Balance's Dance, Mage's end and Zilean's Angel? Gwen doesn't have any item that gives her defense over longer fights, so she is forced to take an absolutely stupidly designed W to make up for it, Mordekaiser at least is a juggernaut and can reliably tank a little bit more because the juggernaut class has a big statline. Allow me to remind you: Acording to the LoL fandom wiki, the only AP divers are Diana and Elise, and despite the fact that they have a "dive'em" playstyle, they play it more like assassins. We just need an item like DD, Cleaver that allows AP champions to "ramp up" during longer fights.

[@RapTapTap69]

The reason is that regular mages would be absolutely busted with AP bruiser items. Imagine a malzahar or teemo with an AP deaths dance. They'd never die because they get takedowns just by existing. I'm not sure what the solution is and I don't think riot is either. You give mages a slightly tanky item and everyone who is squishy will build it and run rampant. Just look at hourglass For the cleaver side of arguments, most mages don't wanna stay in fights if they don't have to. If I just slept someone on Zoe, then I wanna paddleball then run before they can run me down while my damage is on cooldown. I don't wanna be trading autos while waiting for cooldowns to make the most out of an item. It would also be hell to balance since liandrys, demonic,Teemo/singed poison, malz aids keep you in combat so the item would be constantly at full stacks Again I'm not a game dev but I do play a lot of mages and bruisers so I have a bit of experience with both types of items

[@Mahoken11]

Funny enough, Morde doesn't have a big statline for juggernauts. His base HP is average for melees and his base armor is one of the lowest of all juggernauts and even most melee champs.

[@erikb4407]

"Balance's Dance" LMAO Death's Dance is genuinely an insane item tho

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Something like black cleaver ap already exist its demonic embrace

[@Mahoken11]

@@baptistecochennec5956 Demonic Embrace doesn't do anything against Magic Resist.

[@HurricaneAlpha1]

Surprised that Lillia wasn't in this category, considering that she always goes for more healthy and ap itens in top and even jungle. She can use ludens and more squishy itemazation, but that's niche, just like crit garen and such.

[@ezraho8449]

Lillia is actually an interesting way to give AP champions damage that is back loaded.

[@lolosh99]

She is more hit and run skirmisher than a bruiser

[@antonypistachio5476]

I don't know why people default to Liandry's tbh. Riftmaker, Demonic Embrace, Cosmic Drive is insane on her. 3000 HP with 600 movement speed in combat while healing indefinitely from passive and Riftmaker Omnivamp is insane.

[@BlackfeatherMain]

It's because Lillia has a lot of burst and mobility, and not a lot of innate defense in her kit other than mobility. Sure she has a small amount of healing off her passive but it's not a whole lot.

[@christopherdo2515]

Some of them are less bruiser-like now. Mordekaiser is a "juggernaut". Meta around Grag shifts from bruiser to tank a lot. And the others can flex into bruisers but are more like assassins (looking at you Sylas and Diana). I think the main issue is itemization. There are mage items that are glass cannon or provide too much safety. It can be seen with tanks as there are so limited "meta" AR/MR items. As an a Pan, Gnar, who flexes, I think they need to bring the other roles to par with AD itemization (despite a couple gripes with that category)

[@Tlafsiy]

wdym mordekaiser is a "juggernaut" why add the quotes

[@christopherdo2515]

@@Tlafsiy its just riots term for a tank-brusier. They are suppose to be an aggressive, oppressive tank. So, darius, garen, skarner, yorick, aatrox, etc. This differents from fiora, cam, jax, pantheon, etc. These are definitely squisher (and so are bruisers or duelists).

[@christopherdo2515]

That term indicates how long you have been playing the game. It was an large old update to like 5 champs at a time.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Juggernaut is literally a subcategory of bruiser

[@christopherdo2515]

@@baptistecochennec5956 might as well be its own thing. There is enough of a differentiation. Otherwise assasins who build some tank or duelists, the list goes on, could be considered a bruiser.

[@stranger4537]

Well If aatrox q is already used as an example: to limit the oneshot potential for ap bruisers give them abilities that need to be used multiple times before giving the full Effect. Similar to aatrox q or old mordekaisers. And to give them something to do between the activation e.g. give them ap scaling AA after landen the first hit

[@elderlich7562]

I was wondering about that as well. They could also do something like darius, where their big finisher needs set up, just with AP.

[@Ghosta085]

The itemization argument still stands in this case. Ap bruisers just don’t have the items to stay alive long enough to build up for that big attack. And if they did, we would see a revert to tank assassins like akali fizz etc. the reason irelia was so absurdly, wickedly overtuned post rework is because she was able to build literally any ad item aside from crit. She had backloaded, front loaded and sustained damage. If you were to give Ap bruisers the itemization to incentivize backloaded damage, it would give champs that already have insane frontloaded damage way too much build diversity.

[@Omnifarious42]

@@Ghosta085 Easy... Rework how auto's work on magic characters, give them all different scaling to suit their jobs and give more character, lower AP ratios across the board and delete Akali from the game. Smite has done 2 of the things I've mentioned the magical autos and different attack chains/scaling and it works well.

[@LesserLordKusanali]

The fact that he didn't put THE ap bruiser in the thumbnail i.e gwen

[@AnalysisParalysis-f6n]

I think your forgetting about the OG AP Bruiser....Diana

[@Super_Top_Secret_Area]

Gwen is a Skirmisher, that would place her alongside Master Yi and the other duelists, who are then placed in a bigger group called Slayers, which also cointains the Assassin class. She's not a bruiser by definition, even though it may feel like it.

[@sabrinaflores795]

​@@Super_Top_Secret_Area Rumble is in the thumbnail and he is a battlemage (the "bruiser" part is mostly early game). Gwen is much tankier and more suitable to melee combat than he is, and even though she's a skirmisher, her gameplay is more similar to mordekaiser than that of master yi. There's no reason why Gwen wouldn't be considered an AP bruiser (ambiguous term) when Rumble and Gragas are. There's only so many champions that can fit onto the image, so we'll see.

[@crazygamer1030]

@@sabrinaflores795 Pretty Sure bruisers need AOE to be classified that, and I dont think Gwen has that good of AOE to be a bruiser. For example Urgot, Mord, Sett, Darius have high AOE dmg to completely destroy team fights if they can get in range that is.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

@@crazygamer1030 have you ever played against a Gwen her q and ult is a lot of aoe damage

[@KermitTPog]

One could argue that swain encompasses an ap bruiser, especially after his mini rework. Battle mage/bruiser is what I’d personally classify him as

[@gd7343]

My suggestion for an ap bruiser item would be an ap item that gives armor and mr for each second you are in combat until a certain cap. This wouldn’t make any mages tanky since they get oneshot anyway but would be excellent on champs like sylas, singed or mordekaiser Edit: As some people pointed out this would be severely reduced for ranged champions

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Mages have cc, long range, sometime shield and a lot of hp they won't get one-shot u combine this item with say crown u get an invincible Viktor or cassiopea

[@aaa.internet7014]

Tanks with ap ratios would probably build this more

[@rike971]

And make it melee exclusive to make sure Cassiopeia and the likes won't abuse it.

[@m_3zzoz_m309]

Kassidin is looking from a far: *”i like this dude”*

[@paumb64]

that's called abyssal mask

[@Arob4343]

The fun part of Shyvana is being a hybrid bruiser. Even when you build a crap load of ad, you end up doing primarily magic damage. Your w and e do magic damage, no matter what. And both gain damage from ad. Her e has better ap scaling of course, but if I remember right, her w damage scales with ad but it converts ap into move speed. That’s why sorcerer’s shoes are always good for her. This is why I end up with weird looking builds on her, I like experimenting with her

[@alexandregehin8665]

Even when going AD, maxing E first is still the best for dmg, although W is better for clear speed/moving around the map. the rest of her kit simply isn't on par/up-to-date

[@Arob4343]

@@alexandregehin8665 yep, I always max e first these days. It still slaps either way

[@PainfulJoy]

AP Bruiser idea: diminishing returns on their AP scaling on abilities. Give them CRAZY high AP scaling on their abilities, but only for, say, the first 100 AP. Every 100 AP after that gives less scaling than the 100 AP before. Then, make AP Bruiser items that give only a small amount of AP (say 45 at most) and some defensive stats, ability haste, and what have you. These items are still good on the AP bruisers because their scaling is amazing with lower values of AP. But standard AP mages, assassins, and even enchanters and the like just can't justify it, because their scalings aren't high enough to make that 45 AP Mythic viable. Meanwhile, the bigger ticket AP items like Deathcap are just less valuable for the AP bruisers, because all that extra AP beyond the first 100-200 kind of gets wasted, and they'd be better off going fort more defensive stats instead.

[@lissandrafreljord7913]

Only AP bruisers are Mord, Diana (if built like one), Elise (in spider form), Rumble, Sylas, and Gwen. Lillia and Singed are arguably bruisers. The rest, are either assassins (Eve, Kat, Akali, Nid, Kass), tanks (Cho'Gath, Malph, Amumu, Galio, Nunu, Gragas, Zac, Mao, etc.), or straight up cheese build bruisers who have hybrid scaling like AP Shyv, Voli, Udyr, WW, Jax, Xin, etc.

[@Nik-oj7je]

Shyvana

[@coconutplayer7763]

@@Nik-oj7je no

[@cutcutado]

Sylas and Gwen are skirmishers, not bruisers, they don't even count. It really is only Mord, Diana, Elise and Rumble Edit: Allow me to remind you another thing: Rumble never sees play, and Diana(Kinda) and Elise are "bruisers" because they break one specific rule of the assassin class therefore cannot be considered assassins: Elise is ranged and Diana has too much AOE In other words, the only viable AP bruiser is fucking Morderkaiser, and he is basically useless if he misses his E. How fun.

[@SonOfSparda03]

AP Jax is the only real AP bruiser Actually I'd even say the only real champ

[@Tlafsiy]

@@SonOfSparda03 the only real champ is only mana items mordekaiser it got me to challanger its busted as fk

[@danha3107]

can't wait for this one. I just realized this issue myself a couple months ago when I wanted to find an ap jungler that fit my playstyle. (or more specifically, an ap drain tanking bruiser if one even existed)

[@sophiaascart484]

Lillia's conqueror riftmaker into tank items could work as an AP drain tanking bruiser, but tbh it takes so long to scale into something that feels remotely powerful on your own. Gwen jg also works and you're naturally pretty tanky even when going full AP and just defensive boots, and tank items like spirit visage, FoN, and randuin's also work on her (but yeah AP bruiser itemization is and has always been somewhat of a mystery).

[@danha3107]

@@sophiaascart484 yeah that's the exact issue I had with conq/rift lillia. Plus I found her mana to be a real issue if I'm doing any sort of extended sequence w/o blue buff. Haven't tried gwen yet but I'll save up for her!

[@Limrick1029]

I’ve found that Lillia can be built in a lot of different ways that can be pretty successful. The classic Conq/Rift build is probably what you’re looking for as a drain tanking bruiser. If mana is your issue, I’ve found that building a Tear into Archangel or a Frozen Heart work just fine for it. A bit more out there build that I’ve had a weird amount of success with is Everfrost into Fimbulwinter. It’s a good pick if your team needs more utility or the enemy has very slippery champs, especially Yasuo since Everfrost ignores windwall. Heck, I’ve even tried Sunfire Lillia, and it’s surprisingly decent. Basically really fun champ, highly recommend.

[@danha3107]

@@Limrick1029 maybe I'll give her another chance. I did play her a lot on release and loved zooming out of everyone's reach, but it feels a lot harder to reach that point since then

[@segafan2437]

i feel like malphite could afford to get some changes to become an AP bruiser, seeing as his only crowd control is in his ultimate, which feels less impressive to me nowadays seeing that other champions feel like they can do the same and better, like Diana's enguage being unable to flash away from it, or Tahm's new W having the same range and radius(though slower i know) and Vex's combo from a mile away. especially with Malphite's W claps being an ability he has feeling a bit underwhelming. not sure what exactly i would change, probably his passive is all he would need, since the shield cooldown feels terrible when garen and sett can fullheal while in a minionwave.

[@jojod1029]

i feel like replacing Q entirely with something another melee-range ability might force him to actually fight in lane, maybe a anti-auto ability like rammus W.

[@segafan2437]

@@jojod1029 i would not be against a slam like Aatrox/redKayn/Bel'veth has for a short knockup to replace the dreaded cheesewheel and make him more threatening upclose

[@taitrinh8650]

@@segafan2437 I'd say, turn his Q to something similar to Mega Gnar's Q. Match his theme as a rock tho. Just hope Riot rework him already. He is pain to play against.

[@edipedipbulmaz]

He's R is great tool for assassination, Unstoppable long dash with 1.5 seconds of uncleanseable hard cc and heavy magic damage that can effect all 5 members of the enemy team

[@krystians2016]

14:58 but akali have 4k hp or even more sometimes and oneshot you because her scaling is not just insane like on sylas its so fk high that she can literaly hit E and auto AA and oneshot you with lichbane and others items can go hp or a bit of ap

[@liwayway9645]

my experience with an ap bruiser (im a gwen main lol) like I really wish we had better items.. the idea is so interesting and I love playing gwen but damn they are forgotten lol great video as usual!!!

[@Discotechque]

An AP bruiser item that I'd like to see is when you have higher max HP that your target you gain bonus AP that scales with resistances. Mages won't buy those cuz they need armor, MR and HP just to make it viable.

[@casualmarkit9969]

Replying for the algorithm thats the single best way to make an AP bruiser item with respect to the other AP champs rn. Hell making an AP Maw of Malmorbius-like item wouldnt be bad either its base stats would be just as strong as the other ap resistance items but the passive would mostly give defensive stats that only ap bruisers would like. Temporary omnivamp and a at base weak shield that scales kinda hard off the defensive stats is what im thinking. Any inputs?

[@spatz2219]

But then if that item provided meaningful AP once those conditions are met, all mages would build that item cause you get meaningful AP for building defensive stats which is any AP assassin of squishy mage’s dream

[@innstafr3547]

Yeah, no. Imagine how that item would affect Katarina, that nowadays goes Sunderer almost every game, with Dd and maw sometimes, that can also make use of demonic embrace. It doesn't sound that fun to face a champ that heals with every E, with 3150+ hp, 250 ad, 100+ ap and 120+ armor/Mr right?

[@casualmarkit9969]

@@innstafr3547 ...But she aint bursting you down in 3 or less seconds unless you were an adc, which is kinda the point of items and builds like these. Its just doing a good job at what that build wants. Its like saying Nashors sucks design wise as AP Xin Zhao loves the shit out of that item. You realize a single item making a truly offmeta* strategy almost or fully viable is Good overall for the game right? Besides at that point the problem is its numbers not the effect itself which means inherently the design is good, you need to make sure the application isn't bad. Which means its actually fine as an item, despite how bad the peak of its brokenness may be to fight against. *the build you described is not meta, at most they get Bork and maybe one of the other 3 you named then its full AP from there. Ive kept an eye on masters+ builds of Kat's for multiple seasons, trust me they value kill power over getting to be a bruiser, they just know when they need an onhit item instead of an ap one for that damage, including the times they need a few seconds more to kill and will buy what they need for that.

[@mildgod5353]

@@innstafr3547 i mean tbf shes broken and those on hit "adjustments" they gave her last season are what makes her use sunderer

[@gabrielalistair8948]

Gwen: am i a joke to you or am i a true damage bruiser like camille ? Apart from that lil bug great vid as always keep it up i'm always glad to watch them 👍

[@jz4003]

13:10 mage with 3000 health that still does tons of dmg. Vlad mains: are we jokes?

[@giladfadel5920]

Funny thing is, Veigar is the only burst mage who can build almost full tank items, And still one shot you like a Syndra

[@Wolfstray]

Really great Insights. The thought of Itemization is something I never thought of; Up until now.

[@mp0._.]

Quick question, why isn't gwen on the list of ap bruisers?

[@NastyBuckos]

I think technically gwen is considered a skirmisher. When Vars refers to brusiers he's mainly looking at like juggernauts and divers. Then again I do agree that Gwen and Lillia should be included on this list since they included Diana which she's primarily an assassin rather than a diver.

[@ourmartyredlady8183]

@@NastyBuckos diver are like assassin but actually the difference it's more on the mobility part, diver are one dimensional on everything they have is to go in in a quick period, while assassin have more tempo on their mobility in general.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

This video taught me that turrets deal physical damage. I had legit no idea. This explains why that Malphite basically set up shop and lived under our turrets the other day.

[@lorieslori8051]

Despite him being primarily a mage, I see a lot of Swain players wanting him to be a bruiser. I do see where they’re coming from,

[@milonchello1643]

Swain is pretty much a bruiser, since he is classified as battle mage, but he lacks the burst damage most bruisers have, and his consistent damage even got nerfed after the mini rework.

[@martingarm2872]

@@milonchello1643 Imagine saying swain lacks burst damage lol.

[@milonchello1643]

@@martingarm2872 Dude, they massively reduced his damage, his burst is lower now than it was before the rework. His ult ap ratio got nerfed, pull doesnt do damage and iirc his q also got it's damage nerfed.

[@mildgod5353]

@@martingarm2872 he doesnt check all his rations his main dps is q and ult (and w every 18 secs or so)

[@callmeshifu4114]

3:33 actually, the first ap melee champ to pop up in my head when you said that was sylas Wich is strange considering ekko is my third highest mastery champ

[@TranslateAmerican]

I think you forgot Gwen in your list of ap bruisers.

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

She's a skirmisher not a fighter.

[@Billusion7]

Riftmaker's effect is probably the best way to go about this. giving stacks to ap bruisers of omnivamp or other useful stats over extended fights , like how conqueror rune works (not now that half champions can fully stack it in 2 seconds) can go a long way. and it won't make burst champions busted as it forces those extended interractions.

[@pyrosousa]

I'd love to see them bring back Rod of Ages in some way for AP bruisers. I miss it so much on Galio

[@Eldex0]

I loved playing him like a juggernaut in season 9 and 10, but now he either goes full ap or is essentially just a Support

[@pyrosousa]

@@Eldex0 yeah he's really not my tanky magic boi anymore 😭

[@Trollrijas]

kassadin suffered a lot since the removal of RoA

[@zhang3967]

I play Wildrift, but Rod of Ages is there. Is it removed on PC?

[@xkey_blade9558]

Vars: wait I forgot Galio Swain: wait I am a joke to you….? I mean I now he is range. I still consider him as a Ap Bruiser.

[@duwanglover3424]

The problem with them is the fact they’re AP. AD Brusiers need HP/Def and Damage but Marksmen need AS/ Crit and Damage, thus allowing for two separate item pools. What does an AP Bruiser want? HP/CDR and AP, the exact same thing other mages want. You can try making AP bruiser items not give mana, but even then, mages would still happily give up mana for more damage and survivability. When the only true APB is Morde and maybe Gwen, there aren’t enough AP bruisers in the game to find out what type of stat combinations would work in their favor, but not general mages.

[@Significantharrassment]

I think damage reduction based on HP and on what range you're fighting the enemy would be cool, like no mage would be dumb enough to jump into the battlefield and get cc chained to death so only actual AP bruiser who can survive like Mordekaiser can build them

[@rooby8039]

Fiddle and gwen could also easily be added to that category, being that they do build a few tankier items from time to time, also including riftmaker.

[@joseph4445]

Gwen yea. Fiddlesticks? wtf no. Fiddlesticks doesn't go for long fights. He relies on frontloaded burst damage nukes, building full pen and ap. I've seen some go tank fiddlesticks, but that seems more like a meme than an alternative playstyle.

[@mildgod5353]

@@joseph4445 but swain tho?

[@twilightflux6287]

It's a dilemma with these bruisers and ap assasins when it comes to itemization. Whatever items ap bruisers have, will be deadlier on ap assasins. I mean we witnessed ad assasins use bruiser items for a while before it got nerfed heavily. Whats to say a scenario like that won't happen to the ap bruisers and ap assasins?

[@Rokushi_ftw]

They could create another window in the shop for AP Bruissers, and directly lock you out of it if you are a mage or a AP assassin

[@baptistecochennec5956]

It wouldn't really be fair tho I mean if you want to go full letha one shot renekton u can even if his not an assassin why because one of the main mechanics of the game is that u need to find the best build for your champion so you need to be able to try everything, locking like 10-15 item just because you badly designed ur game at the origin isn't the solution

[@oriri]

Here is an idea: design ap bruiser that converts all AD they build into AP. Boom issue solved lol Or is that 200 years?

[@baptistecochennec5956]

He is not ap then he's just ad that does magic damage

[@mistywww3199]

corki the brusier. it would also be really bad as it has to be that there abilities scale off ad and dose magic dmg like corki not the ad be converted into ap as ad is more expensive than ap so gives less per item

[@lagartoloco94]

Out of curiosity have you ever considered a topic in the future on the differneces between on-hit vs Crit vs lethality for adc’s and certain fighter classes? It’s a topic I had to learn latter on playing League and I’ve seldom seen anyone tackle those classifications. Much like how I haven’t seen anyone go into full AP vs magic pen builds and which is appropriate when

[@stormgaren]

Also I love how Vars uses Akali when mentioning Lethality and Armor Pen

[@sharpiefumes]

in fact a lot of champs that were initially designed as tanky juggernauts became more glass cannon in a bid for viability, Gragas was once a tanky ward-placing cinderhulk who would engage fights and last a while as a disruptor, now he either builds AP predator jungle or full support on occasion with yasuo and blows the fuck up whenever he engages or doesn't get to 100-0 someone from brush. Galio had a brief stint with Full AP builds(not the overtuned PBE disaster, he just built more AP for a while years ago), and Zac was even reverted to encourage people to build demonic embrace as we stray further and further from the S7 worlds deathball tank meta. With the durability update fast approaching maybe we might even see a resurgence of some bruiser builds but with the damage creep since the item rework, likely not.

[@isislikesyou8605]

Simple way to fix them but not for balance: Each mana is converted to hp or something like that.

[@milonchello1643]

So giving them Singeds old passive?

[@MatrixRay19]

So, Fimbulwinter? Doesn't work for Mordekaiser and Rumble since they don't have mana to begin with

[@shacolin6546]

Actually, yes. I do have an AP bruiser in mind. I will keep it short this time, but I don't mind elaborating further if necessary. P- Your next ability cast won't go on cooldown. (24 seconds cooldown) Q- Dash on the targeted direction, leaving behind an area that deals magic damage over time. W- Deals magic damage and stuns all nearby enemies affected by damage over time and converts said DoT into instant damage. E- Becomes untargetable and ignores unit collision for a short duration. R (avaliable from level 1)- Empowers your next ability cast. Q gets extended range and speed, W extends the stun and the conversion from DoT to instant damage won't consume the DoT, E also grants movement speed and ignores terrain collision.

[@Le_Dave]

ah yes, the bruisers that can't build death dance and maw

[@komgoo4974]

Unfortunately no bruiser can build law.

[@Le_Dave]

@@komgoo4974 lmao I just noticed my error

[@rike971]

@@komgoo4974 Yeah. As long as Sterak exists, there is no reason to take Maw for any bruiser.

[@boringbone]

I miss Rod of Ages + Nashors conqueror diana lol. The healing with ravenous hunter and taste of blood was insane. Was the best at taking towers while splitpushing while being great at teamfights and can even duel. Had very little weaknesses

[@MrSpedo]

Gwen is an ap bruiser??!

[@Naruzakun]

9:06 Talon dying from Jhin's ult killed me as well xD

[@ESS656]

Well there is my point Make ap bruisers have high magic base dmg Make some ap bruisers that gives hp/resistances and a small amount of ap + some magic pen Make mages have less base dmg and more ap scaling so they won't be able to use the news ap bruisers items And finally nerf veigar cuz he will be the only one able to abuse ap bruisers items

[@lissandrafreljord7913]

Now we need a video on AP Marksmen: Azir, Teemo, Corki, AP Kayle, Twitch, Kog'Maw, Kai'Sa, Ezreal, Varus, Tristana.

[@imStorm3r]

how is Tristana an AP marksman?

[@Finn3h]

Running sunderer and demonic on a champion like sejuani feels so good the dual pen scaling from divine sunderer is so good on an ap tank

[@eclipso2566]

For me AP bruiser items should have a similar case like DE where the burn is stronger for melee users than ranged users since most AP bruisers are melee. further classifying them from mage and an AP bruiser As there are only a few AP bruisers out there and most of them have to force buy some standard mage items because there isnt much options overall for their class. Having Ap items that are for melee champs only could be of help so that melee ap scalers are the only ones that could use them similar to how the old both hydras was only for melee champions

[@benedu3450]

6:45 why level 7 talon chased level 11 aatrox? I don't understand did he trap in a pakour section?

[@clouss5696]

Is Gwen not an ap bruiser?

[@freira_rabuda1139]

I think so, she can mitigate "infinite" amount of dmg and cc, heals a lot and constantly and has extreme dps.

[@tedestrada57]

My idea on how to make AP bruisers a thing would be to give them said AP+defense stat items, but lock them on AP Melee champions or something (similar to how they locked Runaan's to ranged champions and the old Tiamat items to melee ones).

[@maxchait5839]

So I've always had a theory about item abuse relative to classes: passive class scaling from stats. For instance tank items are too strong on akali, assasins should have a 90% scaling ratio on Armor and MR while maybe tanks get 110% making it way easier to balance the items to a specific class without completely locking them off. Apply that same concept to AP bruisers, what if they had a 110% Resitance scaling. Then you could release a fairly weak defensive mage item or two that are solidly mediocre at best, but when placed on a champ with the correct scaling ratios becomes pretty strong?

[@zainnguyen2137]

Some champions are hard to pinpointed the class/subclass they're in so I don't think that's gonna work.

[@futabagaming]

>bruisers main weakness is lack of mobility and being kited >irellia exists

[@imStorm3r]

yeah somehow Vars thinks that diver = bruiser which is really not the case diver is really more of an attribute than a subclass

[@miname2306]

This Vid is so wrong, Wdym AP items can be built by everyone??, If an Akali builds Liandry and Demonic Embrace they will become more tanky and dps reliant champion than a burst assassin, It's literally the same with AD, If a Yi builds bruiser they will become more tanky but deal less damage but if they build crit they will deal more damage but be less tanky, If you build Luden Echo on Morde his playstyle will become more of an assassin bc Luden gives more damage than Riftmaker but gives less defensive stats but that doesn't mean he's equal to Lux in damage, You can't say Lux is op bc she can build all the items like you said, AP Champs have restrictions too, Burst champs can't build sustain dmg bc they will deal less damage and probably will never utilize the sustain it gives, DPS champs also can't build burst bc their kit relies on spamming and if you build burst on them they will only deal damage on the first the falls off or probably dies in the first second due to the fact that burst items gives no sustain or defense(That's like saying Kayle can run Night Harvester as good as Akali) and It's not just AP that matters in mages AH is good for battle mages since they rely on DPS, If an Ahri builds AH it can be hard to burst someone bc you're trading things like MPen, Item passives exists too, A Burst can use Luden and Night Harvester better than DPS, A DPS can use Riftmaker and Liandry better than Burst, Yes Bruiser can build Burst but they aren't as tanky as before that's the same with Assassins building Bruiser

[@vranlekhavran8294]

As to items, there is the cosmic drive route - lock the full potential of an iten behind a stat requirement, only defensive this time. Say, item X gives you 60 ap, but if you have over 3000 health, it ramps up to 100.

[@Nintega2K]

I will always standby that if Riot were to ever do a League of Legends 2 or other kind of extreme megapatch that overhauled things more than all preseasons combined, they should remove the concept of Physical & Magic Damage. I would even remove Armor & Magic Resist, let everything just be true damage. This would make building a team comp much more forgiving since you could focus on actual synergy between champions instead of trying to balance out damage types. Imagine if you're playing Top & the rest of your team comp is Kha'Zix/Akshan/Jhin/Pyke. Now you absolutely NEED to play someone that can both frontline & do a lot of Magic Damage, but ofc the enemy team banned both Singed & Tahm Kench, & the enemy top is playing Sylas who usually wins against Cho'Gath, Mordekaiser, Rumble, & ESPECIALLY Malphite, so what's left? Lillia? Gwen? AP Volibear? TBF that last 1 COOOULD be worth, but that's a massive rut to be in assuming you're not a 1-trick & they somehow didn't ban it

[@Tlafsiy]

ew fuck no amor and magic resist are the only good stats in this game

[@mateoemilioalfaroalcega7498]

3:31 Mordekaiser: "am I a joke to you"

[@peradomato]

I think that for make a good ap bruiser like mordekaiser, we would need to make all mages have a passive like pyke (his passive which doesn't allow him to scale from health items like warmog), so that even if a mage build an ap black cleaver, the health wouldn't scale, but this would be absurd for riot to do just so they can make new ap melee champions that aren't ad

[@kylecurtis2786]

Talks about assassins needing lethality, show picture of Akali.

[@oopajf61]

I can see a champ like Ornn, who interacts with itemization, and converts AD from items into ap. He would obviously have to be tuned like mordekaiser, since ad items tend to give less stats than ap items, but I can really see it working like a more complex corki passive.

[@g7parsh]

I think the best thing to do for AP bruisers is to make items that can shift their damage from the front to back. Items like Riftmaker and Embrace come to mind, items that let you be stronger later in a fight. Nashor's tooth also fits here. It's stat profile also makes it not the best at up front combat. Lich Bane also sort of fits but it's ability to be preped means that it's more used as burst tool rather than an extended fighting tool. Basically they need to make attack speed more appealing to AP champs for a bruiser identity to be better than a burst one

[@VERYR4RE]

13:07 AP bruiser items will give less AP and more defensive stats -> that means they give less dmg, the same way AD bruiser items work. So no, AP champs that build those bruiser items wont still one shot you, unless those champions have some form of big dmg scaling outside of items (like veigar), in which case its a problem of individual champion design.

[@dariel4122]

They can make items specific for AP bruisers like: Item: Pure Blood Wine (Unique: Grant Drunken Bloodlust if you have at least 850 bonus health. Unique: Druken Bloodlust: Increase current Ability Power by 50% and grant 18% bonus Omnivamp). Loose idea, but might work.

[@koyomiararagi3893]

vars:"the last thing we want to see are mages with 3000 health doing thousands of damage" swain and vladimir be like

[@DoubleMallow]

I miss when gragas's abilities scaled off of defensive stats tbh, when his passive scaled with health and his w scaling with his armor and magic resist and allowed him to be more about durability and cc while still having decent damage that wasn't broken. Now it feels like you can only play him full ap or you're trolling.

[@aureliongaming78]

His Passive still only scales with HP

[@bucko2327]

9:05 that talon walking into the jhin bullet, what an idiot

[@ultimocontrole9980]

Make a ap bruiser that gains resistence from ap, so they have lower damage, range e mobility, but still can have resistences from building damage

[@sahelanthropus4991]

As others pointed it out, AP champs in general have no item diversity - burst, control, battle, assassin, bruiser mages - all build the same items because there is nothing else they can do, while AD champs have 3 separate item set and classes for ADC, assassin and bruiser.

[@TaconIStenen]

Honestly, I do think AP bruiser items could take a lot of inspiration from AD bruiser items, you just have to put in the same restrictions. GA is a very low damage item, and we all already know Zhonya’s gimps a mage’s damage if built 2nd. A low amount of AP on an AP GA could make it a good AP bruiser item. Further, Death’s Dance and Sterak’s Gage all have a major penalty on ranged champs compared to melee champs, that’s a big reason why not many marksmen go DD, not because they need crit or attack speed more, but because the effect is immensely weaker on them.

[@BlackfeatherMain]

an AP GA would make mages even more infuriating than they are already. Even if it granted like 40 AP a lategame mage could build it and still have like 800 AP and still oneshot. Veigar would be a nightmare even moreso than it already is.

[@TaconIStenen]

@@BlackfeatherMain if it have 40AP you would not have 800 AP lategame consistently without gathering storm.

[@BlackfeatherMain]

@@TaconIStenen You'd have enough to be a major threat to anything not packing a significant amount of MR. That item, Zhonya's, DCap, Horizon, and Void Staff would be both awful to kill and high damage.

[@breno8119]

I do have an Idea for Ap bruiser. The main concept is that to prevent him to oneshoot you because he builds Ap, his damage scales are based in how well he can manage his spells. So instead of having a normal Ap ration like: 90%Ability power, he wold Have X(Where X is the number of times he pleased the condition)%ability power. So the dinamic is that he would need time to have his numbers high, that's why he would need to build durability. Let's name him: Project Ap Passive: Sand Hourglass Project Ap have a Hourglass above him with two poles:Foward and Backward, those poles are visible to the enemies as well. Every third ability will make the Hourglass drop(after 0,25 seconds), doing AoE damage and creating an effect based in wich pole the hourglass was. If the Hourglass was in the Forward Pole, Project Ap, and his allies inside the area affected, will gain Move speed. Project Ap will reduce his spells remaining cd by 25% per enemy affected. If the Hourglass was in the Forward Pole, enemies affected will receive slow and project Ap will receive a Shield, those effects scales per enemy affected. Second Passive: Traveling to the infinity. Project Ap spells scales are based on his Hourglass, each drop that successfully affect at least one enemy champion in the last 5 seconds gives him 10% bonus in his basic spells scale's numbers.(Each drop can only give him 10% ) Basic Spell number 1: No Cost Active: Turns the Hourglass in the Foward pole when casted. Project Ap buffs his next 3 autos to be AoE, doing damage in a cone and granting him move speed per each enemy hit. Passive: While armed, everytime he hits someone with his sword, he reduces his spells remaing cd in one second.(0.5 if not a enemy champion) Basic Spell Number 2: 50/55/60/70 Mana Active: Turns the Hourglas to the Backwards pole when casted. Project Ap will create a circular area, after 0.25 seconds, that follows him while activated, enemies inside the are when activated will receive a slow and damage. When Project Ap damages an enemy champion inside the area he will receive a shield based in how much damage he delt to them. Project Ap can cancel the spell to damage everyone inside and gain move speed and slow resistence based in how many people where there when he closed the area. Basic Spell Number 3: 70/75/80/85/90 Mana If activated in close range, Project Ap will attack everyone in his front leaving a temporal copy that will do the same after 0.25 seconds, both attacks do damage, but the second one does more. He will gain a shield based in how many targets hit by both activations. If casted on long range, Project Ap will throw his sword to the target area that will apply damage and slow around the the area when it lands. If he hit at least one person, he can re-cast to teleport to the sword after 0.25 seconds, to do the same damage again, and refund his basic spells cd per enemy affect by it. If he Project Ap doesn't go near the sword, it will stay there for some time making Project Ap disarmed, while disarmed he only does 60% of his the total damage. Ultimate Marks a big area that transforms itself in a giant sandstorm after some time. Enemies inside the area the moment that the storm is formed will have their vision reduced. Enemies receive damage while inside the storm. Project Ap can prolong the storm duration by affecting people with his Hourglass.

[@dg4262]

That is why champions like Mordekaiser take the only real ap bruiser item (riftmaker) and maybe one or two mage items (including demonic embrace) and then goes tank items (thornmail, spirit visage, he also usually builds plated steelcaps).

[@Flursh]

Im curious to see where my main Sylas stands, as he is much more a hybrid of bruiser/skirmisher and assassin. I almost feel like they added the healing to his kit to supplement the trash ap bruiser items we have, so since he doesn’t really need an item for healing, everfrost became such a perfect item for him simply because of it’s utility and cdr. To this day he is still my favorite league champ for sure.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

He's really comparable to an ad bruiser that scale well a bit like Jax but full ap if you ask me

[@rakaydosdraj8405]

I last played back when Ryze was building mana-cooldown-and-armor items, which effectively make him a magic bruiser.

[@BaronRodney]

Ah yes, The *Armor Piercing* Bruiser class

[@fergin4979]

I think the best options for designing an ap bruiser would be either: 1. Have autos that scale from ap and balance that with lower ability damage aswell as some sustain focused abilities 2. Have your abilities scale from AD but they deal AP damage, kinda like warwick but less hybrid. This would be far easier to balance since it wont screw with items

[@VeneficusCubes]

What about Volibear? True he isn't strictly AP Bruiser, but he has pretty much the same amount of AP and AD scalling. A hybrid bruiser so to say. I played AP Volibear in the botlane with Darius as a support (Off meta much) and I was still doing decently in the team fight as a front line bruiser with

[@儀水鏡の妖怪霊]

With the future release of Bel'veth, more champions whose abilities scale more with stats beyond raw AD or AP seem to be coming at the forefront, and this gives me an idea about what kind of ap bruiser could exist in the game. What this AP bruiser type would need is to favour a stat that is different to the one usual battle mages would need, either through kit synergies or extra scaling. One good example would be AS scaling a la Yasuo or Yone in one of their abilities, to make them consistently spam them in the middle of a fight while staying close to their targets. It is not enough that they stay in close range, they have to favour a playstyle that differentiates them from their ranged counterparts. Itemization cannot come first, because there is no specific direction in which they could go. There can't be a Steraks for AP Bruisers if we do not fully know yet how AP bruisers are supposed to look like in the first place. Some ramping up effects are a good place to start, and Riftmaker and Demonic Embrace already go in that direction, but what else would they need would have to come from having a pool of AP Bruisers in the game first..

[@mullac0107]

I think there are plenty of tools out there to design AP bruisers without allowing them to just build full AP: backloaded damage. This could be implemented through a stacking system, like Vel'Koz or Varus, or perhaps a delayed mark like Evelynn or Zed. Give them the high damage when they pop the stacks / mark, and maybe depending on how they pop it they can do either flat damage or %hp damage. But by locking the damage behind these systems (and giving them low target access), you would force them to go off-tank to be able to survive long enough to actually do the damage, and their full damage build would be relegated to meme tier, like full lethality Yorick.

[@smartalex22]

My idea for an AP bruiser is actually taken from Karma's tether - multi powered abilities. Q could be a slow but if the target remains close to the caster, they take damage once the slow times out. Basically, design the first part of their abilities to be some kind of CC or sustain tool and then give them damage if a condition while using those abilities is met.

[@isaacjohnson6454]

"I never want to run into a 4000 hp 200 armor Diana who still oneshots me" WELCOME TO SEASON 12! BUCKLE UP, IT'S GONNA BE A BUMPY RIDE!

[@VERYR4RE]

13:40 no, because if you build defensively you get less AP -> dont deal as much dmg anymore. So theres just a clear trade off of dmg and durability. And since those mages have worse base dmgs, building defensive is bad, because a lot of them can attack from range where the durability is wasted.

[@2xHooligan]

I've only been playing League for a few months but years ago I played a MOBA called Smite. In Smite they had items that were locked from certain characters that could abuse or weren't meant to use them. I think this would be a good thing for class specific items to be implemented and balanced around certain characters instead of punishing everyone who can use it. Shieldbow (before this attack on healing) for example should've been locked off to Marksman only and then they implement something different for people like Yas/Yone/Irelia etc. I also understand though that the ability to abuse and use all kinds of items is what makes League kind of unique.

[@Tom-re6zo]

I think to make up for the lack of itemization AP bruisers need to have well designed abilities that take the poor item choices into account. Mordekaiser sits really pretty with mostly AP+Health items like rift maker or embrace, and morellonomicon. I've been playing him a lot and I'm here to tell you his biggest weakness as a juggernaut is a lack of resistances. Due to is lack of resistances you need to be very careful when your W is down or else a fed enemy talon will oneshot you from 70% health because your mid-laner is a monkey named Kayle.

[@Jinkaza1882]

Brusier Diana. I love the reducing of one shots which means bruiser Lady Di is more in the mix. And again I will point out- Guinsu's rage blade causes a double cleave. When the double proc of rage blade kicks in it is Hit, cleave, hit cleave. Combine this with Nashor's, Riftmaker, and Conquerer it makes for (on paper) a very fighty ap champ that lives for the extended fight. You can even choose tanky runes by going tear/archangles for more healing and cdr meaning more up time on your shields up time.

[@Jinkaza1882]

Also- the introduction of MELEE only effects (fumblewinter as an example) I would think could be the best way. The code for AP items would take in effect if a champ is melee or ranged. AP bruiser items would less effective on ranged champs. Build that distinction into them like Riot does with other items.

[@vinaayagamkarunagaran3439]

Vars showing that he choose to play Yone in the clip when he mentioned about the video's sponsor me : wait, that's illegal

[@SindyxLotus]

Shyvana has an empowered ability ult, can be built ap bruiser, can split push, and technically infinitely scales.

[@h3nder]

"Assassin's need lethality and armour pen" >Shows Akali

[@nicopootato2330]

Old mord had decent backloaded with triple Q, demonstrating how it’s possible to back load an ap kit

[@Flyingkite98]

All bruisers deal physical damage : Irelia laughing in the background -_-