Manaless Champions: Broken or Balanced? | League of Legends

[@VarsVerum]

Check out nordvpn.com/varsvpn or use my code: "varsvpn" to get a 2 year plan plus a bonus gift with a huge discount!

[@st1lysh35]

but what's the game you're making, if you are a game designer

[@wraith6233]

You forgot new Mundo

[@PowerEd8]

What game did you design/ work on?

[@parasraymondfrederick7976]

Then what characters will u give manaless status and manaless characters mana cost and how much mana cost and base mana will u give

[@D00ML0RD1]

true stealth would like a word about there being no broken manic

[@misterhandsome2238]

Riven: magically reforging and empowering her sword, doesn’t cost mana Graves: dashing, costs mana

[@suzaku1679]

Techincally she isnt reforging it, but the sword itself is.

[@bohomazdesign725]

Graves is ranged and lets be honest, he does not really have any mana problems after 10 mins :) Remember that he is a crit champ and that means he scales better than 90% of champs in the game.

[@tnian22]

Qiyana dashing cost mana 😕

[@stormdragon2529]

@@tnian22 pantheon jumps and throws a spear costs mana, Garen summoning a godlike sword from the sky, costs no mana

[@bohomazdesign725]

@@tnian22 ofc Qiyana has mana. She has a game changing high dmg tank level CC ultimate. Thats why also nocturne has mana. His ultimate has a huge impact and in order to use such a strong ultimate u have to manage ur mana.

[@SpookSkellington]

"There is no such thing as a mechanic being inherently bad design" Akali used to be able to stealth under turrets.

[@irasac1]

She isn't the only champ that makes turrets useless for a short time

[@SieraExtincion]

panth can block turret shots with his shield. volli can shut them off with his ult. but suddenly nobody cares about these shit mechanics.

[@True_Damage69]

@@SieraExtincion pantheon cant block turret shots with his E anymore I think

[@instrumentaltiger5633]

@@SieraExtincion one of them is an ultimate ability and the other one was nerfed so that it cant be done anymore

[@catrielmarignaclionti4518]

@@instrumentaltiger5633 and ult that has a fuckton of CD, for a tank wich cant kill you as fast, and it last a short time

[@staren1991]

meanwhile Yone has a kit worth 20000$ instead of 2000$

[@eeeecca]

i feel like 20k isnt enough

[@Nico-k7s]

u know beeing dead and alive at the same time has it beneficials

[@VarsVerum]

@@Nico-k7s collect that life insurance and then come back to life LOL

[@Xertaron.]

And Gwen has like 22000$. Stronger version of Xin's ultimate on 20 sec cd W is very legit.

[@ooftoast7511]

Did your 0 key fall off there needs to be atleast 69 more

[@shikikankillzone4239]

Mordekaiser: **Creates an entire dimension* Cost: 0 mana Draven: **Walks ever-so-slightly faster* Cost: 60 mana

[@Thescott16]

Don't think Morde is the best example. I feel like Morde falls in the "Garen and Mundo" category of manaless champions being simplistic; he's easy to dodge, he can't chase, he can't escape, all his abilities are short range and/or very basic... Even his ultimate, which is a point and click, doesn't actually fix any of that; it creates a compromise by temporarily limiting the space other champions have to work with (but even then it can be hard-countered with just a QSS).

[@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595]

@@Thescott16 I think he was talking more from a magical perspective than a gameplay one, obviously Morde is very simplistic in his kit, but his kit is very magical if we're looking at it because as Shikikan pointed out, the man makes a whole pocket dimension with 0 mana cost, meanwhile very non-magical things like Draven throwing axes and running faster cost mana

[@daj9054]

@@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595 acknowledge his lore tho, he’s this dude from the death realm that defied death, he’s assented past mana usage at that point

[@jynxed66six54]

@@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595 he does not make a dimension, he just takes you there. he never made death realm, is just a place where the souls of the dead go. if you look at it like that, giving mana to him makes no sense even in lore. he is a spirit bound to iron armour, he no longer needs to deal with mortal concepts like death, food, or mana. he doesnt cast anything with his ult, hes learned to manipulate the death realm to bring people into it

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

@@daj9054 Better example: Riven. Channels magic through her sword, reforging it and making it glow with runes and shit, and later fires magic projectile. No mana involved. Meanwhile, gangplank forgets how to eat oranges without it.

[@VarsVerum]

Update: I have escaped from the clutches of Yuumi mains

[@True_Damage69]

Thank god..

[@flameofmage1099]

Good. Alot of them come off too attached.

[@carnivorze1052]

This is what you think Vars, but we are everywhere. And one day we will find you. One day...

[@user-bg1uc1gm3q]

I love how some of your vids are serious discussions while others are just *s e n d h e l p*

[@starryknight7700]

I hit m7 on yummi within a week of picking her up. She is really easy to play and im unattached enough to get worthwhile poke and i tend to have a good amount of fun playing her. But even i can say that she doesn't offer anything to the game and is a cool idea in concept but in practice, she just is bad for the game

[@Xenodargon]

Katarina, faceroll to pentakill: no mana. Teemo moves slightly faster: costs mana

[@insideeyed273]

Truer words have never been said.

[@Jezzus100]

I agree but making her have mana would make no sence, her whole kit relies on resets, if she had mana she would be trash tier.

[@stormleaves5953]

@@Jezzus100 giving her mana is the best option, that way she cant just endlessly mash buttons until she reaches 100 kills

[@Jezzus100]

@@stormleaves5953 she is busted in solo queue for sure, because she capitalise on enemy mistakes. She has the worst laning phase and if u don't play carelessly she is useless.

[@Xenodargon]

Maybe give her mana. And whenever she kills someone with an ability, refund the mana cost

[@rebillion9442]

I'd also say that the insane self healing has exacerbated this problem even more because champs like yas, yone, and viego really only need one healing item to stay in lane forever

[@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672]

thats a problem with items not champions tho because yasuo and yone have no sustain and viegos sustain on minions is poor and getting nerfed

[@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672]

@uwau or the right counter, kassawin shits on vlad all game

[@eduardoledesma5568]

@uwau haha I use this same strategy. Full AP Kayle one shooting the enemy mid or adc. It leaves no chance to heal back.

[@walf6470]

@@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672 no that is just a problem with champions. Viego needs 0 healing items to stay in lane forever. His passive is fucking stupid.

[@ikisakkage7762]

And thats also one of the riven biggest weakness. Riven has absolute NO SUSTAIN, even if you bought life steal she wont get any benefits from it and it just slows her poker spikes. Unlike the abomination that yone is, Riven CANT go into a bad trade. Riven only takes trades she can win, because if riven gets out traded a single time in lane, she going to be forced to go back base and lose CS and XP. Unlike tone who can even go under your tower and return, and then just Q the whole minion wave and be full health :)

[@vlytvyne]

Imagine not having mana but have a reliable recharging shield instead just for... walking...

[@SlepiZec]

Mundo has anti cc shield just for existing ;)

[@derpaboopderp1286]

@@SlepiZec mundo sacrifices his health for the shield though, thats a cost

[@mariosy7549]

Yasuo is as squishy as an adc not like other assassins

[@Wayfinder137]

@@mariosy7549 as a Yuumi actually. Iirc he has only 10 more base hp than her at lv 1 with a slightly higher hp scaling

[@noahmoreno7264]

@@mariosy7549 but ur shield bow buy is 10x more effective and efficient

[@panlis6243]

I really like the "alternate resource" route with manaless champion like they did with Gnar or Rumble. It prevents them from just mindlessly spamming their abilities (yes, I laned against Gnar enough to know how this works in practice but still) and also gives them some mechanic that makes for a more unique experience. I guess with simple champions the thing is they are often reccomended for new players so it takes off one thing to worry about while learning the other concepts. Also I think that giving manaless champions good sustain is just a toxic idea because that removes any way of forcing them out of lane in the early game

[@waleedkhalid7486]

I agree. The almost infinite sustain is the biggest issue, and has been since at least s2 when I started playing. You can poke all you want with mana, but you will run out before they get close enough to risk dying. I’ve always advocated for long cds on all mana less champs, but it kinda seems to me that they just get lower cds as time goes on. The mythical that give haste just add icing on the cake unfortunately.

[@joekenwood4956]

Ahem tryndamere ahem vladimir ahem fleet yasuo&yone

[@LinLinchiko]

@@joekenwood4956 ahem MORDEKAISER WITH RIFTMAKER

[@Rhyolite-hyena]

@@joekenwood4956 Tryn should have long Q cd imo, that leaves him truely risky and have to play "darius" level of all in, instead of just trade, heal, have "strategy" around that. It's so hecking weird for his character.

[@kostantinospap1968]

@@Rhyolite-hyena trynd's q is just fine

[@radi534]

Katarina: *uses magic to blink - no mana* Zed: *Literally uses Shadow M A G I C - no mana* Gankplank: *Shoots a pistol and eats an Orange - ... with mana*

[@knighttiger7236]

They aren't just regular oranges, they're blood oranges.

[@Wavinto]

But summoning a whole Keg with Gunpowder has no cost, yeah it's funny

[@davidgonzalez8281]

Axe mad dude darius: mana

[@metageek7878]

Zed has energy though so I assume his shadow manipulation is like jutsu or ki so that one is fine lore wise at least. Shen creates mystical shields and Kennen shoots lighting with the same mechanic only energy champion that isn't magical at all is Akali

[@radi534]

@@metageek7878 It's confirmed in the Zed comics that he literally uses a forbidden type of magic(Shadow Magic). Shen and Kennen also use magic. Ionia, as a whole, is a country of magic, lore-wise. Yasuo, too, uses magic.

[@MrBaris115]

When i first started playing lol after 3k hours of dota i couldnt grasp the idea of how a champion could have so much free resource and be balanced.

[@lucianonafi7478]

Simple answer to that! They're not. They're just not.

[@husnula.6157]

Same. Its like wtf mode with cooldowns but only on certain heroes. Imagine someone like balanar or pl with free mana.

[@MrBaris115]

@@husnula.6157 bro that would be insane

[@pascaldohrmann5636]

@@husnula.6157 pl without mana would be the equivalent of yas i think

[@HamsterPants522]

It's balanced mainly by just giving the vast majority of champions so much mana that they don't have mana issues either. lol

[@JUSTANOREO555]

This is why sett support was complained by bot laners are "OP" cuz when you have all supports that rely on mana. And then you have this manaless support top laner in bot lane it kind of throws you off a bit which i can understand the need for complaint!

[@miyclops]

Sett really is disgusting in bot

[@JUSTANOREO555]

@@miyclops Ever seen a sett support with phase rush man you gotta be like 6 ft apart or else he will run you down! Also sett is probs one of only champions people even know of omnistones existance.

[@miyclops]

@@JUSTANOREO555 yeah, cos I do it too lmao. I agree on omnistone, really helpful along with hexflash and nimbus cloak for the 2nd tree.

[@DemonerLycan]

Yeah, Sett is good and all, but have you ever tried support Zac? I'm not kidding, this is THE most disgusting abomination you'll ever see down there.

[@naser3000x]

i don't think the fact that he is mana less is the problem at all, its the fact that he is super strong early, can flash engage and hard to kill

[@ibrahimcandogan7124]

When someone picks Yone; a butterfly dies, a baby stops laughing and i hate myself more for not banning yone

[@123qwe456zombies]

Give Yone a chance and you’ll see why he’s fun, I promise.

[@gabrieljoseozanan6989]

Riot really should give us 2 bans at this point so I can finally ban them Inting Twins already!

[@Idk_imagine_a_cool_name]

@@123qwe456zombies as a yone main: he is so fun to play, it’s not that fun to play against him

[@Idk_imagine_a_cool_name]

Most of yones int hard, so don’t be so afraid

[@BalthazarB2]

@@123qwe456zombies Of course Yone is fun, he's flashy, easy to play, and broken enough that you can lose lane and still win fights later.

[@dcyoung8887]

I appreciate that you're posting this video at 8 am instead of 9am since the Nintendo E3 Direct is on tomorrow at 9am.

[@VarsVerum]

Yep! I want that nintendo direct :3

[@dcyoung8887]

@@VarsVerum Out of curiosity which character are you hoping for to make it to smash? I really want to see the Howard twins from Astral Chain to make it to Smash.

[@VarsVerum]

@@dcyoung8887 I want Bass.EXE from mega man battle network ;D

[@dcyoung8887]

@@VarsVerum ah nice, really hope that capcom will release a battle network legacy collection this year or next year. Battle network is what got me into mega man.

[@hqhuy931]

still think yone and yasuo should have a penalty for their abilities, like an energy mechanic of sorts because double crit no mana infinite uptime in fights is broken. specially yone

[@QuincyIsCrispy]

Blows my mind that they're manaless tbh

[@SomePersonOnYoutube]

The thing with these champions is though that they wouldnt work if they wouldnt be able to spam their abilities.

[@lilnoah3915]

🤡

[@Dingdong2730]

Another thing is that these champions quickly become very obnoxious laners. I have absolutely no issue with playing against Yasuo and Yone from a mechanical perspective, because there are some very easy to play champions that just punish them pretty hard 1v1. The key reason why I ban Yasuo from most of my midlane games is because of tempo, unless you kill him, you never get first shove against this champion, he can just trick you, hover out of vision then shove a cannon wave on you in 2 seconds. He takes towers pretty fucking fast too, so it forces you to take TP while he can go ignite, giving a big edge in melee duels. Its just too much of a headache to deal with.

[@lucianonafi7478]

The fact that after a vamp scepter they can just kinda stay in lane forever bothers me a lot. They heal SO much, too. It just makes trading feel useless against them.

[@burnerforhire293]

13:19 ah yes, the furries against the anime characters

[@joncler279]

kinda ironic cuz it's also a battle on which fandom is more cancerous in the internet

[@Kyouto_c]

@@joncler279 League Community

[@fartyonakarty]

ah shitte xD

[@DeletedTroll]

@@Kyouto_c It contains both of them, therefore, the most cancerous one.

[@DeusAsmoth]

I'm not the biggest Kayn fan, but from a lore standpoint, the fact that he uses mana is really dumb. He should use energy.

[@asrieldreemurr1918]

Well he’s from noxcus not from Ionia

[@DeltaDaspleto]

Energy Irelia when?

[@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672]

@@asrieldreemurr1918 he is a ninja like zed tho

[@idkhelp4354]

@@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672 well, maybe zed just forgot to teach his favorite child how to use energy.

[@d0nt_]

i mean from a lore standpoint ornn is a litteral 200m tall god and malph is an actual mountain, while gragas is just a fat guy that likes alcohol

[@Henry-bg4oe]

Only benefit to having mana is the overtuned manamune.

[@alejandropetit6573]

As a rumble main, one of the things that i like the most about him and drew me to playing him is his heat mechanic and hiw it's essentially a double-edged sword that makes it so that even if you have no mana you have to pay arguably more attention to your resource bar than mana champions, but when you learn to manage rumble's heat, overheating only in a moment where it's beneficial and not a downside, it's super rewarding, and i just love how they designed it

[@shutuvi]

Rumble is a champ for sissy cowards

[@alejandropetit6573]

@@shutuvi fair, he's annoying af to play against but I like his heat system and how it is both a strength and a weakness depending on the situation

[@lillyie]

3:28 you forgot the fact that dr mundo uses health as a resource for his abilities

[@Mylifuismywaifu]

Some

[@ingamrvr]

@@Mylifuismywaifu that also gets refunded mostly

[@AndyBrixton999]

Mundo has more health regen as a second passive. So no. He has no real cost.

[@LuisSoto-fw3if]

It's never really an issue. Vlad also uses HP as resource but it's never punished for it since he also gets access to high sustain. If it were at least something to think off early game I might give you the point, but none of them have to worry about spamming their skills whatso ever,

[@ingamrvr]

@@LuisSoto-fw3if Vlad does have to wait for his bar to fill to get good sustain, which his opponent can play around by keeping distance for a few seconds as the bar empties / gets wasted on minions.

[@AvatarRoku22]

Not having mana means there's 0 penalty for spamming abilities as much as you want. I already know people make the excuse "they are melee so it'll cost health in trades" which is a dumb argument because melee champs with mana also incur that penalty ALONG WITH losing their mana. Without mana it doesnt matter if you use all abilties on cooldown and miss 80% of them. The only way a manaless champ can truly be balanced is if their abilities are super weak early game.

[@tora2538]

Check viego's Q base dmg xD

[@rike971]

Sett W has a very long cooldown for the early game. So is Garen W.

[@hqhuy931]

most manaless champions are at the early game, except for mundo who is broken

[@Sage11]

@@hqhuy931 how is Mundo broken ?, He sucks major ass if you have a brain and get antiheal first recall

[@hqhuy931]

@@Sage11 that is if he doesnt stomp you out of lane and squeeze 600g repeatedly out of you

[@abekaessel3282]

it feels like most manaless champs are made so they can snowball extremely hard even if they’re behind all game and get one kill then kinda just go on a rampage, just kinda my experience from a viego and sett mid main

[@djoweyvokun]

Not the case for all. Look at Shyvana

[@Mylifuismywaifu]

@@djoweyvokun shyv is a old champion i think op is refering to the new champions that have no mana

[@apollyon1311]

@@djoweyvokun this is why was said "most" instead of "all"

[@chillypanda2168]

Hahahaha true ive been playing a lot of sett mid and always find it fun to bodyslam into the enemy team and just decimate them with like 2 items.

[@areyousureaboutthat8124]

They are made for new players

[@Soapiesthorse]

Thank you for voicing EVERY point of annoyance I have with Yone. It is ABSOLUTELY true that he doesn't deserve to be manaless. Riot REALLY needs to consider their choices better.

[@murphygay3050]

or just take some of his tools/mechanics away, his Q knock up, his W dealing % health dmg, his E dealing true dmg, the shield on E, or rather the free shield it gets, and definitely the fact that it increases per enemy hit, or the cleanse. Like WHY does he have ALL of these tools? Thats more than some of the simpler mana champions COMBINED. IDK what its gonna take, but at least there are some champs that reliably dumpster him like Renekton.

[@eve.483]

No u cant make yone have mana he would have to get mana items cuz of how he spams his q which would completely ruin him and make him shit

[@xaviersandoval1765]

@@eve.483 No he wouldn't. Not every ability has to cost mana. There are mana champions that have one ability that doesn't cost mana.

[@eve.483]

@@xaviersandoval1765 then wtf is the point of mana lmfao his q makes up for 85% of his ability usage

[@xaviersandoval1765]

@@eve.483 Mana costs on his E, W, and Ult. Mind you, I don't actually think he really needs to be a mana champ, I was just pointing out that it wouldn't be necessary for his Q to cost mana. Edited cause for some reason my brain switched me over to thinking this convo was about Yasuo.

[@LivingDewCrew]

5:40 not that this detracts from the main point, but gnar gains bonus health when he gets enraged and keeps it when going back despite the reverted max hp. So technically a form of sustain.

[@everinghall8622]

@@N12015 he keeps some of the health. There is no "not really" he either does or does not.

[@cohoslash5893]

whats one thing that all manaless champions have in common? They're all hot and what do hot people have in common? They dont drink water COINCIDENCE i think not

[@Chrono_topher]

Yeah and much more vulnerable to Rule 34 and yaoi-

[@voyces22]

THAT MEANS WATER IS MANA

[@vex452]

Viegos onision looking ass being hot??? Lmao

[@gianlucaacca4401]

I think hot

[@vsgvladsilviu]

Yeah bro rumble Renekton and rengar are really hot 🥵

[@Tokumastu1]

It really feels like you're playing with a cheat code whenever you pick a manaless champ

[@htlchtlc]

Nah man, it feels like cheating when you play with the better manaless champs, I pick from the bottom of the barrel (the ones without movement abilities), infinite dashes is BS

[@NeedF0rSteve]

If it is like that, play them lmao

[@AngryEnchilada]

You try playing kled who can’t even dash through walks and can’t even run away well :( (jk tho kled is great)

[@wedwastaken2362]

@@AngryEnchilada play aatrox and you will realize how little you heal when landing a 5 man goredrinker meanwhile pissport vampric scepter abuser healing full hp from sneezing on a minion

[@mgtmusic2926]

I decided to Main Kled when I only had a couple months of experience in league. I didn’t have to watch resource management and the abilities were easy to understand. The problem and in this case replacement for being manaless was that once dismounted, you have to think where to engage. Sure we can argue about Kled having the most aggressive mindset when trying to remount, but it takes time to understand how often you can do that. Kled has really high cooldowns on his Basic abilities and only two of three when dismounted. So once you blow your chance to remount, you’re a sitting duck waiting to die or forced to recall in most cases. Now that I have slightly more experience in how to ply Kled (150k Lvl 7 mastery) I can easily take most early game flights no matter how much hp I or my enemy has. Long story short, kleds replacement for manaless is cooldown control

[@randyjr.arsenio5624]

Yone has attack speed based CD reduction? This is blasphemy. - Azir.

[@gamerpl4995]

At that time CDR had a limit, and... how many items, except for Nashor's, gave AS that was usable for ap-based champs?

[@thec-yb6ug]

@@gamerpl4995 azir uses on hit items as well doe , also the new turret is useless do you thinks its good to give a champion a useless passive just so he has one

[@gamerpl4995]

@@thec-yb6ug blud it's been 3 years. You expect a 3 years ago Azir to be the same as he is now?

[@kommoo3366]

Don't apologize for being heated bro, all contempt towards these blatantly atrocious champion designs is justified. Keep up the good work!

[@pinchylobster7392]

Well, i can quite simply answer that question. yessir

[@fitmotheyap]

Yeh Unless they use something else(renek furyyy)

[@pinchylobster7392]

@@fitmotheyap that doesnt really count, that empowers abilities. u can still use the ability without fury

[@baptistecochennec5956]

@@pinchylobster7392 yeah but u still need to manage ur ressource without it it's weak

[@apollyon1311]

@@fitmotheyap Renekton furry

[@Alaaeddine_]

@@fitmotheyap sett got grit without it his deal damage the poor guy omg

[@user-vc1gd4jg1f]

Viego has a resource, or so ive been told every time I’ve possessed someone and been informed I don’t have enough none to cast any abilities

[@asrieldreemurr1918]

Nah he’s just release azir level of bugs

[@mgikgaming9153]

you gain the mana of the champion you possessed, if they had no mana when you kill them, you have no mana to cast yourself.

[@ggwp638BC]

I feel that "manaless" is a bad term. The correct way to describe these champions should be "resourceless". Focusing on mana reduces the idea behind having resources to just one facet of it, which is pretty limiting and bad for understanding the problem. Rumble, as stated, isn't a problem. But Rumble, despite not having the mana, has a resource called "heat". In practice, he works with the same concept of resource management as all mana-based champions, just with a different approach to it. Same goes for energy and so on. All champions with resources have to perform resource management to some degree: - Mana: you have a large resource pool that takes a long time to replenish; you can perform more rotations of your abilities but you must return base to replenish that pool. Being caught with a low amount of mana can mean death, as the enemy can wear you down and engage you can't fight back. - Energy: you have a small resource pool that takes little time to replenish; you can perform usually one or two rotations of your abilities before exhausting that pool, however it is filled up within a few seconds. Being caught in that small window or failing to properly land your combo and/or resets can mean death, as you will be defenseless against the enemy. - Heat: you have a fluctuating resource pool that has an optimal point, in which you perform the best, and two sub-optimal states. Failing to properly maintain heat can lead you to dealing sub-optimal damage or even get you defenseless (in case of overheating), so you have to know how balance your heat and know when to overheat or save up. Now, Fury and Stacks (like Rengar's Ferocity and Riven's passive, and yes, Riven is a champion with resources) are a bit on the greyer side. Yes, those are resources, and they can be used well. Rengar's abilities are pretty sub-par without stacks, and he requires bulding them up in order to actually blow up someone. And because it takes time to build those stacks, the player must know when to spend them and how to spend them. Always hitting Q will do you no good when Morgana binds you with her Q, or won't help you hit the enemy just casually walking away from your gank. However that is the balance: these champions need subpar abilities that become overpowered WITH the stacks, and thus they must properly manage when and how to spend them. Riven is the wrong way to do this. The stacks she gains from her passive are just free damage. While a bad Riven won't AA the enemy and thus miss out on a ton of damage, and lose stacks by misusing skills, her abilities are already pretty strong on their own, the resource here is just a plus. On top of it, she can already max it out with one rotation of her Q alone. Fury follows a similar concept. It's a resource you build up and must maintain, and once you reach an optimal point you become OP, while below it you are subpar. Kind of like a mix of stacks and heat. Thus, to work, the champion must have a suboptimal state (either with Fury or without it) and must have bad and good ways to spend it. Gnar does it well, he builds up Fury and too much of it forces a transformation, however it's temporary and when to transform or not creates situations in which either form can be suboptimal or ideal. Meanwhile, Tryndamere does it poorly. While he has to properly manage fury on the early game, late game he just has infinity fury. And he only has two options on how to spend it: heal or not heal. And yes, there are optimal and suboptimal decisions here, but they aren't as impactful and don't leave that much of a window of opportunity to the enemy (granted, fury and stacks don't leave big windows like the other three, since Rengar can always build up his stacks in the fight, for example, with Gnar being an outlier). I'd say Renekton is also a bad realization of Fury. Because he can generate it so quickly, there is very little error in use. Even if his abilities are subpar without fury, the fact he can always empower them mean they are always in that ideal state, unless the player is really THAT bad. On top of that, his Q and W are so good that very few uses aren't net positive. Then we also have the champions that use HP. Here we have Mundo, Vladimir, Zac and some others. These champions take their already existing resource pool of HP and double it as fuel. That means poorly using their abilities and failing to get proper heals can lead to them essentially doing more damages to themselves than the enemy. Vladimir even has a secondary ability resource to manage which is his Q's Bloodthirst, which works like Fury but with much shorter bursts, having longer wind-up, a small window of opportunity, followed by a weaker position. Failing to time it properly will lead any Vlad to feed hard. Now, after I said all of this and we consider "resources" instead of "mana", it's easy to answer why the left champions in 13:14 don't get hate like the right ones: all of those are champions with resource management, while the right-side ones are resourceless (except for Riven, but as I explained she is a very bad implementation of the concept and in practical terms can be considered resourceless). The left-side ones, good or poorly designed, have to do resource management to some degree, while the ones in the right completely forgo that concept in their gameplay, almost like they have a cheat code. It's not simply because of their overloaded kits (which is also a factor). Garen and Katarina, for example, also get a lot of flack, and simply aren't discussed as much because their kits are pretty weak, however it only takes one strong patch for the community to hate both of them again. Resourceless champions ARE stronger in concept. Take any champions, remove resource management from their gameplay, leave the rest as is, and boom, you just buffed them massively. The only ones that aren't complained about are the ones that are sufficiently tame to not bother. So yes, I'd say resourceless IS bad design. It simply removes one MASSIVE layer of gameplay in regards to when to engage or not, both for the player and the opponent. That doesn't mean every resourceless champion will be OP, there are other factors that influence that, but the lack of resource is bad design and a sign of a problematic champion.

[@gigibecali699]

Did you seriously write all of that and expect people to fully read it?

[@valenvera6298]

@@gigibecali699 i read it

[@ryye1829]

Woahh

[@ggwp638BC]

@@gigibecali699 Tbf I more or less made my point in the first two lines, the rest is just developing it.

[@poopdogphilbert1268]

I disagree with basically everything you said here. Rengar doesn’t need much time to build stacks. From no stacks he can just jump, use QWE, and that gives him 4 stacks instantly. When it comes to Trynd’s infinite fury late game, how big of a problem is mana in the late game anyways? The only bruiser I’ve played where I felt like I needed more mana was Jax, and that was only after multiple fights. Though Trynd spamming Q off CD is actually pretty annoying for poke champions. And IMO Renekton actually handles Fury the best, at least in the early game. The whole “spamming abilities off CD” applies to him the least. He actually does take time to build it up, and once you’re in the red you want to save abilities to trade with.

[@simospeed3087]

I wonder if Riven if she had energy instead of resourcesless, how would she feel. Like everytime you have a stack of your passive, you recover some energy similar to Lee Sin, she would still be able to do what she excels at, while promoting the player to weave in autos after each ability, instead of spamming, so new players are more likely to understand that weaving autos in between each ability is usually recommended. Wild idea, maybe make her basic abilities longer cooldown, but also each time you passive auto it not only recovers energy but also lowers your basic abilitie's cooldown by 0.5 seconds for example, but might be too hard to balance, just a random idea

[@chrs-wltrs]

It would also be fantastic thematically, given her complicated history and personal relationship with Ionia.

[@JeremyH115]

Honestly as someone that's been playing her since she was released, I'd love that idea, could even play into her scaling by making the abilities cost more at the start but get cheaper as the game goes on, or where she gets more energy back from using her passive. would be rather fun to play around.

[@brocolive1950]

OTP riven here. Problem with that is that it would make even more unfair match ups, positively or negatively. Riven is a snowball champ, the snowball can go either way. In good match ups, she gets to full combo and hit autos uninterrupted or without the threat of diing first. Your suggestion would make that stronger and unfair. In bad match ups, she just can't auto the opponent, all she can possibly do is avoid and shield as much poke as she can to just CS, short trade with Q>stun>auto>Shield out, which is just 1 auto, but often she just has no opening to ever trade. Your suggestion would make her bad match ups even worse, because she wouldn't get to hit her autos to get energy and would be stuck with empty energy and get bullied for free. So basically, your suggestion would make riven's strength tend towards both extremes : too weak or too strong, in a given match up. This is a bad thing, we should tend towards balance/equilibrium in a way that in every match up, both players have equal chances of winning. Also, riven is all about comboing her spells together. It would feel sper akward to not be able to use a combo because you only have enough for 1 or 2 spells instead of 2-3, and be forced to hit an auto in between when you shouldn't have to or can't. The autos with passive are already rewarded with dmg, punishing when you don't, or can't, auto, just limits fluidity and possibilities for no reason. The fact riven could potentially use some special form of resource, like renekton or rumble or whatever, is interesting and leaves place for a lot of ideas. But I don't think it's needed or wanted, riven is complicated enough as it is, there's already a bunch of shit to keep track of : passive stacks wearing off, Q recast timer wearing off + the inherent complexity to pilot her I personnally believe she could eventually benefit from a rage mechanic, empowering an ability when full, that would make up for her weaknesses in these bad, onesided match ups. Empowered Q could make 3rd Q unstoppable for example : gragas, urgot, darius, and many others can too easely bully riven by casting their E reactively whenever she uses 3rd Q. This means they can just hold on to their spells, and riven can never engage or trade or walk up. Again, just a random idea, and I also believe leaving riven as it is would be better.

[@metabots100]

Manaless champions are interesting, when they dont have free dashes and integrated sustain coupled with low cd

[@aaronscott7467]

Viego's "q, w, and e are pretty tame." You forgot about his q passive

[@cnaro8073]

The problem is he supposed to be a jungler but he is ok at jungle but strong in mid and top.

[@everinghall8622]

He also only carrys if he has items, early game he can get invaded by shyvana.

[@gingerdude3666]

I do wish that there were more fun and interactive non-mana resources to play around. Energy is a great example of a non-mana resource imo, it's not the same as mana but you still need to play around it. Same with Gnar's rage.

[@freshtea228]

Overloadedness is a key point, but there are other things that make some manaless champs oppressive: Setts passive for example, Setts whole kit is for trading in lane, but instead of making it recourceful, Riot just added the "what I lost the trade? nah, just wait 5 seconds and I won it" mechanic. Garen and Mundo are fine because their regeneration is not more than a healpot, but Setts is and it has no condition.

[@theodore_lmao3558]

We all know we are gonna watch this till he says goodbye

[@NAYTER]

Viego isnt manaless, you run out of mana randomly when possessing all the time

[@ZacharyHammondkent]

best champ design

[@hmlh]

When you were talking about how the resource-less champions for the most having having a lack of sustain, I was surprised that you didn't bring up the fact that most of those fighter characters take Grasp, Conqueror/Fleet Foot Work with Ravenous Hunter in the secondary tree. Essentially giving a champion without sustain, SUSTAIN. gj riot lol

[@EuclideanVision]

Due to the ghost masks & spirit sword etc, you'd think Yone was built to have a condition-based scaling in his kit. Unlocking / hindering his hybrid damage through ability use could work in terms of him "manifesting the spirit sword" or "putting on the mask" or what have you. Great work as ever!

[@everinghall8622]

His bonus magic damage should be on a flow meter like yasuo, so there is a clear optimal time to engage him.

[@fordesympathiser1921]

In my opinion they are fine and lack in other places except one character. Riven 1)has 4 dashes 2)is bulky 3)deals a lot of dmg 4)doesn't use mana 5)has a shield on a low cd late game 6)Literally cancer.

[@mira.r]

7)will cause a brain tumor

[@maplekidns]

Yone literally has all that minus one dash in exchange for hybrid damage so at the very least he is on par.

[@Bendzsike]

@@maplekidns and on top of that he has 100% crit with 2 items, his hybrid damage can crit, and he uses bullshit lifesteal much more effectively than Riven. Also he builds Shieldbow.

[@maxlemaguer8559]

@@maplekidns Lifesteal is also worse bc it mixed, he not tanky, 1 dash requires using q 2 times first, one has a long animation and is his R.

[@maplekidns]

@@maxlemaguer8559 his q cooldown is reduced by atk speed meaning unlike riven he is not required to build cdr and rivens knock up is locked behind a 3rd q. The hybrid damage doesn't reduce his lifesteal (I cant think of a reason it would since things like wits end count towards lifesteal) and sheildbow makes him plenty tanky with him building more like a bruiser after 3 or 4 items.

[@tanerabdul-vuap5847]

Totally agree, I used to main Rengar, Renekton, but I've never felt as strong with them as I felt when I played Yone or Viego. I play Renekton way better, but for Renekton, I have to think ahead, to plan how I use my fury, for Yone, I just spam keys and wonderful things happen. I play very aggressive, I either get 2/0 before level 2 or feed a lot early, but with Yone, I just go yolo and win anyway in most games. Even if I lose hard, I just farm up, get 2 items, heck just Immortal Shieldbow is enough to hit the powerspike, his kit is so overpowered and easy to control. He's a very easy champion to learn and understand, I got quadra while solo'ing the baron, then proceeded to finish the baron while playing Yone in ranked in my first games. He's way easier than Yasuo. He's just broken honestly. No brain required, like I was watching myself while playing with him early game, damn, I missed every q, still got the kill, I played so bad. With Renekton, I have to be careful, how I use my abilities, if I make a mistake, I'm literally screwed, the CD's are so high on the abilities, I can't just carelessly spam, if it was Season4, it would've been easy, not many champs would be able to counter him, but now, it feels like every champ can bully. With Yone, I can spam everything just to cs, then have my combo ready for the trades.

[@oicmorez4129]

There's a clear reason why Viego has no mana, and it's "interactions with the passive". It's easy with health. The game remembers the health% state, and keeps it for the new amount, but how would Viego's mana act when he turns in to a character with energy, then into a character with mana, then into a manaless one, and then back into himself? It would probably get lost with the percentages along the way. There's one thing I really don't like tho. He gets no Energy requirements when turning into the 5 champions with Energy. It's not that much of a problem for most of them, but it is a massive one when he turns into Akali. Akali's Q has practically no cooldown, and a high cost. Viegokali can simply stand back and spam Q, ignoring the passive completely, and still be dealing more DPS than a skilled Akali would ever be able to.

[@gertann9729]

Imagine how many more bugs viego would have if they gave him mana

[@DedikateSSB]

I think having manaless champions is good, but harder to balance cause u can't nerf an ability by increasing mana cost or by decreasing the champions max mana.

[@sebastiandavidson5289]

this

[@stefanalexandruologu9722]

There is a "small" difference between rivem and yone: riven has 4 dashes that moves you a little, yone has 4 dashes that can cover half the map with 1 use(including the distance from second E)

[@GameBreaker1055]

I will never understand while they did not give Katarina a resource bar like daggers. I just think it would be cool imechanic-wise if she had a limited number of daggers she could use and drops one whenever using an ability. Of course she could pick them back up, but because they regenerate slowly, if she just spams her Q without picking the knives up again she would eventually run out of knives to use and therefore could not use her Q and W. With this trade off she could even get mobility during her ult. Like she can shampoo during it and actually has to because she would have to constantly pick up the daggers to throw them again. Let's say she could store up to 5 daggers and the number would increase significantly with levels (to give her a scaling over enabling her to do more at once). Her ult does a bit of damage in melee range, but the actual damage comes from throwing daggers and she throws them at any champion in a radius, so 5 champions around her 5 daggers per tic, and she would have to shampoo to pick them up again or she spends her ult on doing damage in melee range. This would challenge the Kata player in making decisions to which dagger shampoo onto and would also lead to oppnents knowing to where she could jump to next.

[@josuecejas4034]

Im here after seeing Ambessa PD: Yone is still overpowered

[@volcanicviper5984]

i like the point you brought up about rivens animation cancels. i have to keep hearing people say that riven takes skill to play because of them, but never understanding that riven doesnt need them to be effective. theyre just icing on an already overloaded cake. theyre efficient, and if you can do them, then great you can get more damage, but you dont need them to play her baseline

[@EowynGeorgia]

Bro riven does no damage without animation cancels...

[@oneofthe12sionmains70]

Small point: Gnar heals from transforming, so it's actually only 4 without regular lane sustain (3 if you really want to include Shyvana ulting for sustain)

[@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672]

techincally not a heal, he gains hp and retains it after transforming back like lulu ult, not a heal

[@everinghall8622]

That's why I buy grevious first vs him.

[@luckye4943]

There is also an interesting side-effect of manaless champs, I'll be talking from experience here. I started playing leauge in January of this year, well mainly thanks to my friends. My first real main was Mordekaiser who does not have to worry about resources aside from his W and it might as well be the easiest resourse to manage in the game. I got so used to just sitting in lane and waiting for gold for leeching leer or t2 boots and backing only then that when I switched to playing stuff like volibear and especially varus mid I really had a hard time adjusting to backing based off of my mana. TL;DR Manaless champions dont teach new players when and how to back efficiently

[@supernooby6225]

one topic i'd love to see would be infinite stacking passives (nasus, veigar, senna ect.) i would be curious to hear your opinion on these abilities and on how to balance them.

[@shacolin6546]

They are passable as a secondary mechanic like Thresh and Bard. They technically scale indefinitly. In practice you never play those champions around this. When the whole champion is "I need to stack" you warp the whole game experience in a negative way. Your allies are forced to play as if they have an AFK. Your enemies play with a time bomb on their hands.

[@parsley3215]

@@shacolin6546 funnily enough that doesn't happen with Nasus, his WR drops the longer the game goes

[@darkdemon9013]

@@parsley3215 Nasus wither is giga busted though, he only gets fucked up from not being able to get on top of people

[@alexzbughin3392]

9:00 i tought he was gonna talk about Rengar XD Been playing in wild rift where many manaless champs are . But Rengar just hits different. Literally, he jumps XD

[@streptococo4735]

i love how talking about Manaless champions whit overloaded kits he was showing a clip of Katarina casually killing everything whit no effort

[@edwind_]

13:55 I felt that one 😂

[@stormgaren]

8:46 Me who’s an enchanter main: Hehe permaheal/shield go brrrt

[@gkarak1996]

As another enchanter main, not really. When your teammates rush or play too defensive when they should not, they burn out your heals and shields too fast or are always too fatr too cast any on them.

[@shacolin6546]

Nami and Karma are the only well designed enchanters. Everyone else is straight up anti-game.

[@3sz10]

@@shacolin6546 So, why?

[@stormgaren]

@@gkarak1996 true though. that is why I agree with the reply below you to a degree. Karma definitely is one of the best designed enchanters. Instead of just wasting your sheild on a Yone with both summs, ult, AND G.A but doesn’t engage with Janna, Sona, etc, Karma gives a massive rush of movement speed combined with her shield, enabling most players to actually go in. If they don’t then (and I mean this as a joke) do it yourself. W that fed Sett and mantra+E his W. As for Nami, I think she is also good but idk man, maybe its just bc I haven’t played Nami that much but her W feels like it halts her tempo. Maybe I’m just using it wrong; though accidentally stealing a kill during a dive bc you E’d your jungler and it bounced to the enemy is really funny

[@gkarak1996]

@@stormgaren honestly i would like for riot to give back some utility to the enchanter supports. Like make Soraka's Passive work in general (not only for low health ally champions) or return the duration of karma's and lulu's shield. They have removed too much with the item rework from enchanter and have given too much to all the other classes. I do understand that enchanters are the hardest class to balance, but that is not an excuse for this massive mistreatment. I mean they are nerfing items with mobility on other classes but at the same time give buffs to the same items or the champions that built them. When they nerf support items, they give nothing in return and also nerf the supports that used these items.

[@grassygrass1798]

Sometimes I get these random champions that I never play like in ARAM or all for all and I can't believe when I see some broken monsters being manaless

[@Maellion]

Could you do a video about passives in League of Legends. Most of the times they are pretty overlooked. But some are just really strong compared to some that are pretty useless.

[@kallor02]

Kog'maw xd

[@LuisSoto-fw3if]

@@N12015 exactly, if you have to put a passive in to gate a certain build because you know your champion would be broken with it, then your champion is broken to begin with. Remember when they said that if they had to rework the game to make Sylias work then it shouldn't be done? In comes Viego... if only Riot could keep to their own philosofies...

[@everinghall8622]

@@N12015 sienna is the worst of all the "unique" supports, her kit just screams "I'm auto filled and dont know how to support so after I die in lane 3 times ima go see if the mid laner needs a free kill" Every time shes strong it's absolutely cancerous. Any other time I have to dodge when shes on my team.

[@poro9084]

Tip - passives - when they are good and useful, and when they create the champion itself (like yasuo got shield as his passive + crit, so essentialy it is PLUS, while kled, renekton resource bar and their passive explain how that champion works

[@arntry8072]

Finally hearing the word power budget. Meanwhile devs like Riot just add obnoxious amount of abilities in a champ while having high numbers.

[@colbierb22]

@@hotlinekrapfen jesus, for real. if its gonna come with a self slow it should be a dash lol

[@everinghall8622]

@@colbierb22 oh god imagine the salt

[@DavidBrocekArt]

I love how your videos talk about topics everyone thinks about, but no one talks about.

[@VarsVerum]

Mostly because everyone gets into a fight over this if they talk about it on Reddit or something XD

[@Chain0619]

I thought this said “manliest champions” And I was so confused Braum wasn’t on the thumbnail

[@StarChargerStudios]

Garen: summons glowing sword to smite his enemies, no mana cost Gangplank: shoots a gun and eats an unnamed citrus fruit, magically apparently Also gangplank: summons a powder keg from literally nothing, no mana.

[@trainzen11]

2:41 Energy: Lee Sin, Akali, Zed, Shen & Kennen. Me: Why only Ionian characters have this ability? 🤔

[@beeamazing2457]

they all broken

[@LuisSoto-fw3if]

I think using different resources is a better alternative to manaless champions, such as Rumble. Although he can technically spam all his skills, doing so may activate his silence. It's not the same as managing Mana, but it does carry some interesting skill expression. That and keeping manaless champions to simple kits, such as Garen and Trynda, who essentially just run it down and hope to out-stat you. Manaless champions can be useful as beginners friendly champions, but if they have a high skill celling they can and have mostly always become a problem

[@windowsxp6348]

Well aatrox actually has a bar below, when using ult that shows when its gonna end. Actually useful if he gets more than 1 kill

[@leagueskinmusic1426]

I love how Vars still has hope in the Riot Champion design team, more after Akshan and Yone... Gotta love the optimistic...

[@giuseppenacci4979]

Manaless champions are poorly designed choices, the drawback for having the possibility to stay forever in lane should be a penality on pushing waves... Manaless champions should not be able to contest the push of a mage without worries. Anyone who says the opposite is speaking in bad faith...

[@vedaliessonmostepicfailsin5171]

Mid lane, not having mana just means you cant build tear. And tear is super op so its a negative.

[@YsterYuki]

@@vedaliessonmostepicfailsin5171 well building tear on velkoz or xerath isn't really recommended, so i don't see your point..

[@giuseppenacci4979]

@@vedaliessonmostepicfailsin5171 tear is 400 gold for no combact stats, tear items are too expansive and you have to stack the fking tear before the items become valid. Building mana slows the build because ure not boosting your damage nor your tankyness... In the perfect league, lost chapter is a 900 gold item and does bonus damage to Minions below 25% life...

[@HamsterPants522]

@@giuseppenacci4979 "perfect league" lmfao

[@infamouscha]

This is true, because a mage will always be at a disadvantage against someone who can clear waves just as effectively without a resource.

[@Gertj_]

Wachting a lot of old content from you recently. You made some good content man!

[@boldisordorin9010]

Irelia and Yone must have 1 million dollars amirite?

[@davydgrygoriev9116]

at least irelia, unlike yasuo has to reset and use mana for her dash, so it's limited

[@AddingVer]

Are on crack? Irelia has mana. And she is one of the worst champions in the game. After 15 minutes she becomes a glorified minion

[@davydgrygoriev9116]

@@AddingVer after the "unlike yasuo" all the things are referred to irelia and yes, if she didn't stomp in lane she become a cannon

[@Savvle]

@@AddingVer cap

[@sonwig5186]

@@AddingVer Irelia has great teamfighting with her ult and stun

[@thecoolestcorgi4991]

I had an idea for a manaless support that instead used exhaustion. As their exhaustion increases, their abilities get stronger, but at maximum, the enchanter loses tons of MS, AS, and can’t use their spells until they recover. Fun idea, but could very easily become broken, especially if the character was given a healing basic ability. Would have to be exclusively buffs/shields.

[@graphner828]

I might just be dumb but this is the first i heard you are a game designer, i was curious to see what games you've worked/worked on?

[@they_luv_drek]

Viego: literally shrouds a whole piece of terrain in mist -no mana

[@AlryFireBlade]

Real talk: Maybe they aren't OP, they are balanced, but it defenetly feels unfair to play against. When you try to manage your Mana, While constantly trying to survive the Ability Spam of a Riven, Tryndamere, Mordekaiser or else.

[@sunnydargonnel]

Yesterday a damn Riven smashed me playing Kayle. All she had to do was wait for me to run out of mana while not doing anything to her thanks to her disgusting shield and she killed me UNDER THE DAMN TOWER. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I hate that bitcch as much as I hate Akali and Pyke. Wanna delete them.

[@trentonpham1159]

@@sunnydargonnel you win lane as long as you don't die.

[@sunnydargonnel]

@@trentonpham1159 how. I was UNDER THE TOWER FULL HP. She came, smashed the keyboard, killed me and got away with it. Both were lvl 6 and I had more CS than her. WHAT COULD I HAVE DONE.

[@bohomazdesign725]

@@sunnydargonnel lol Kayle is suposed to lose lane against champs like Riven, Renekton etc bcoz she scales 10 times better. U can't have godlike scaling and a strong early game (her early game isn't even that bad). U don't need to get every CS. As long as u don't int the hell out of ur lane and get the majority of the minions u won lane just by existing.

[@sunnydargonnel]

@@bohomazdesign725 I did just that. The kills she got were literally under the turret, while trying to evade her. Stun and with no mana left, I had no way to sustain myself. She left the turret with very low HP, but alive. How am I supposed to play like that, u tell me. Sadly I was first pick so I had nothing to do. I'm not even good with Kayle, but matchings like that make me lose any will to learn...

[@dovydas1900]

You make amazing videos, hopefuly more people can find out about your channel.

[@PressRToZeus]

Something to think about that kinda got skirted around by accident i think is how manaless champions relate to the concept of advantage states and disadvantage states. fighting a manaless champion as a champion that uses mana adds an extra layer of complexity onto the person playing the mana champion because fundamentally as a mana champion you can only maintain pressure if you have advantage, or maintain your lane before running out of mana. all the while your opponent just sits there and uses their abilities without any cost or issue. Manaless champions have an inherent advantage to the neutral state of the game and especially skirmishers (oh hey there's Yasou, Yone, Riven, viego again) who want to be able to pull the trigger and fight at any time benefit exponentially from this, because even if a manaless champion spam cleared the entire jungle and all three lanes as soon as their cooldowns come off it's like they never used anything at all. and if you do happen to encounter them when their cooldowns *might* be down, they can just leave instead of fight (again speaking about a neutral situation, not if you jump them from fog of war or catch them by surprise).

[@adcyuumi]

I'm fine with an ability costing 0 resources, if it is less impactful/effective than an identical ability that that does cost resources. RIOT doesn't balance champions well this way though. They have almost no working system to determine what an ability's resource cost should be. We are 11 seasons in, and RIOT still just "wings it" with just about everything. And we are talking about a game that is primarily math, with minimal randomness. It should be a science by now. ... It's dumb from a design standpoint for a champion to be resource free. It takes a design tool away that can be used to balance an ability. You can make an ability cost 10 mana to use, if you want it to be basically free to use. That way the variable is at least in place in case you need to reign in an ability. There's no restriction of design space.

[@banoonoo5]

7:29 how does requiring mana restrict champion design? every manaless champion could work if they had to use mana

[@JerzyCarranza]

Why does no one ever talk about katarina, she’s so controversial but no one talks about her

[@lillyie]

Kata doesnt have lane sustain, no crowd control, no durability and is a feast or famine champion.

[@everinghall8622]

If she had untargetability, camoflauge, long range nukes, or an execute (akali) she would be a problem, as it is, if shes not fed, she can lose 1v1 to anyone with flash or a stopwatch. Akali is 1000 times easier to play than kat because she is loaded with safety nets and reliable damage.

[@kcStranger]

I think you nailed this one. Obviously you can balance any champion through stat buffs/nerfs, but I think it's frustrating when a champion's gameplay depends almost entirely on whether they get fed or not (since they have abilities that potentially counter almost any situation). Cue "their Riven vs my Riven" memes.

[@szelinski8832]

Yones E is the most OP ability in the game at least for me (I'm saying this as a yone main). I had a few ideas how to change it to be a little more balanced, my first idea is simple, just replacing true damage for AD, secong is to limit the range, so when yone can't go around the map as he pleases but it'll be quite short range (I thought same range as yummis Q) and increse its range a little bit for every kill, my final idea how to make yones E more balanced is to makim him more wounerable to attacks by reducing his armor and mr when he is in the spirit form. For his W I would remove % hp damage for him dealing ap equal to his bonus ad. What do you think? Would this changes make yone more balanced? I'm ciurious.

[@Andres-vj2ws]

I agree, I used to main Yone and even then I could tell that E was just straight up nuts

[@Zero-zr6xx]

Yeah it's like Zed's Ult + easy tower dives also his shield is also disgusting

[@afrobebryant6266]

Yones E doesn’t even do real true damage. He repeats a percentage of the damage he does as true damage. So in other words, to counter his “true damage” just build more AD.

[@mgtmusic2926]

I decided to Main Kled when I only had a couple months of experience in league. I didn’t have to watch resource management and the abilities were easy to understand. The problem and in this case replacement for being manaless was that once dismounted, you have to think where to engage. Sure we can argue about Kled having the most aggressive mindset when trying to remount, but it takes time to understand how often you can do that. Kled has really high cooldowns on his Basic abilities and only two of three when dismounted. So once you blow your chance to remount, you’re a sitting duck waiting to die or forced to recall in most cases. Now that I have slightly more experience in how to ply Kled (150k Lvl 7 mastery) I can easily take most early game fights no matter how much hp I or my enemy has. Long story short, kleds replacement for manaless is cooldown control

[@noahleach7690]

I think they should be in the game, even as they are but never as top tier, nerf sett

[@bielvv9148]

I love the "nerf Sett" at the end of the comment xD

[@lucasgarzontoledo1150]

Sett literally has a full life shield, a 2700 true damage shot, a 700 damage auto atack or even more, and a chunck of health regereation that scales IN combat depending on how much damage you deal to him. Perfectly balanced champ (my native languaje is spanish so i dont know if i wrote It well)

[@noahleach7690]

@@lucasgarzontoledo1150 hes also easy

[@carlosmarques3714]

3:25 Aatrox resource bar shows the remaining duration of his ult, dont know if it couts though

[@atomicpancakes]

I think Riot mainly designs “Manaless” champions because they don’t have the technology yet to make “TWO” resource bars because if you look closely most of this “Manaless” champs make use of the resource bars in some way, be it energy, shield amount, ability duration, etc. PS. Yes, some champs do have something else that acts like a might be considered a resource bar but they act more like “Numeral Counters” e.g. Corki Ult, Annie Q, Gwen Q, etc. P.S.S. If riot managed to make 2 resource bar champions then they might add mana to those manaless champions. But that’s another topic.

[@bevvvy1374]

Yeah but they have stuff like corkis ult and morde's shield so why can they do that but not another resource bar?

[@atomicpancakes]

@@bevvvy1374 morde's shield uses the same bar where the mana bar is supposed to be. and corki's ult uses the counter bar like annie's passive and jhin ammo

[@disguisedlemonade]

Sry for my bad English, but i just woke up and it is my 2 language. So basically, if u play a mana less champ, u: - Dont have to worry about resources, So u dont have to buy a mana item, So u have more Space for Items giving u the best stats (hp, dmg, as or whatever) - U dont have to back unless you are rly low, because a champ like idk, Akshan, uses 5 skills in early game and he is out of mana. And a champ like idk, Cringesuo, spams his skill how much he likes, and if he buys like a wampiric scepter he pretty much can be in lane forever. - Most manaless champions Instead of mana have a resource that EMPIWERS THEM. LIKE NOT ONLY DO THEY HAVE BETTER CUZ THEY DONT NEED MANA, BUT THEY ALSO GET REWARDED FOR ALREADY HAVING A HEAD START. LIKE WTF.

[@disguisedlemonade]

Now im gonna comment every manaless and Energyless champion, and if they have smth that empowered them. Aatrox - he used to have his reviwe indicator, but now he doesnt. Dr. Mundo - he doesnt have anything, but he is So powerfull that if he would have he would be Just too broken. Garen - same as Mundo. Gnar - this little piece of shit can Just spam the shit out of his skills, and then he gets a ton of hp and Mele range, So first he is going to poke u from a safe distance, then he will go in and one tap u. Katarina - Do I even have to say anything? Mundo, Garen. Kled - he technically only gets an indicator on skarls courage, but its Still a buff So yeah Mordekaiser - HE GETS. A FUCKING SHIELD. FOR BEATING THINGS UP. AND GETTING A BEATING. THIS IS A WIN-WIN SCENARIO. AND THIS IS ALSO A HEAL. Reksai - she gets true dmg on her e and healing when underground Renekton - he can e power his next skill. No sry, his next 2 skills. Rengar - Gets ferocity. AND he is getting a giant buff next Patch, do prepare for Rengo being a top tier pick. Riven - Same as Mundo, Garen, Katarina. Rumble - He technically gets a buff. Sett - pretty much the same as Morde. The more u hit him, the harder ur gona lose. Shyvana - this is a complicated one. She needs her..... Whatever this is Called to use her r, So it is like mana, but she also gets an indicator on r. Im gona consider this a buff. Tryndamere - probably the most broken mechanic of all manaless champs. Playing vs a Trynda is like playing ping-pong, but ur enemy gets stronger everytime he bounces the Ball. It is not significant, right? WRONG. At full fury, he has a 100% crit chance with a legendary and a fcking cape. And he gets a heal. This is even better than Cringesuo's pasive. Fuck tryndamere. Viego - Mundo, Garen, Katarina, Riven. Vladimir - his skills cost hp, but he is safe AF to play, deals tons of dmg, and he heals a lot. This is a buff. Cringesuo - Gets a shield. For walking. Yone - he gets an indicator. Zac - his skills cost hp, but he can also heal this up. So its not bad, but this is not a buff. Conclusion - Number of manaless champs - 20. Number of manaless champs that get a buff - 12. Riot, come on.

[@SappyIsHere]

Well I think it depends tbh because of the fact that not all of them can spam abilities like yone yas and viego. A lot of them have high cooldowns

[@True_Damage69]

Sett,zac etc

[@flameofmage1099]

And they both have recently high skill floors and ceilings

[@Nink262]

And you didnt said about Vlad with his bar that just shows how close he to use his Q when talked about bars (3:23)

[@ahmadafzal1918]

Some Manaless Champs are Compensated for their supposed opness by having high cds eg Sett,zac,mord Some are balanced via being too snowball reliant/ trash early game eg yone,vlad Some have high skill ceilings eg riven,aatrox But it does not go without saying that some champs are outright broken if the person is even mildly decent on the champion.

[@Bendzsike]

Imagine call Yone snowball reliant, when he legit can be 0/20 with 4 items and he destroys everybody, not even a meme at this point.

[@ahmadafzal1918]

@@Bendzsike 4 items isnt a small thing, i meant snowball reliant for vlaf and trash early game for yone. I know very well how broken the wind brothers are as they can be afk and even 2 items behind the underfed support and could solo kill the midlaner with lifesteal.

[@perapapic3683]

Idk i played as Ornn on a Sett and that man used his W on minions or when it wasn't even stacked up he missed his E's most of the time and was still able to deal a lot of dmg with just his AA and his Q not to mention all the healling he gets from the passive with Garen he needs to be out of the fight if he wants to heal with Sett he heals in the fight and gets stronger.

[@ahmadafzal1918]

@@perapapic3683 first off U buy exes or Bramble to cut already trash healing lol All his damage comes from AA's If he was using W on Minions and u still lost idk man u seem kinda iron He literally has a 18 sec cd on W lvl1 scaling to 12 sec lvl18. His E is 16 lvl 1 scaling to 12 sec lvl18. The only thing he can roll twice in a skirmish is his Q which deals percentage health damage so an anti tank. I mean ornn counters him really hard if u can chain ur cc and get out before he can stack full grit or land it. Idk how guys rant about such simple and counterable champs and think its fine lol.

[@perapapic3683]

@@ahmadafzal1918 o no i won he was 0/6/2 and i was a full tank Ornn and he was still able to take me down to half health before he died

[@Local_commentor]

When vlad has 3 sec q (600) range with cosmic drive lucidity boots and infinite sustain makes me wanna play him alot

[@TheRedcat14]

What I always saw as the main “trade off” was skill ceilings (at least for most of the “strong” ones, like Riven and Kat). I have nothing to say about Yone, because you’re absolutely right. With Kat (after rework), her entire “game” is choosing where you’re gonna place your daggers and when to dash to them. It is a rather simple game at first glance, but Kat is specifically built to be effective when she makes the right decisions and knows her match ups. Now, I know you’re already thinking “nope! She just goes bot and gets a double kill and game over!”- I propose this. (If this is everyone’s first thought to argue “Kat is broken”, then why are you pushing wave bot lane anyway? Why aren’t you warding river bush? that’s not a “Kat” problem, that’s a “you” problem) The vast majority of supports these days have CC, which is all you need to stop a Katarina. Again, she’s slippery, but only if she executes her play perfectly. She could Q to place a dagger, E in to start her attack, (possibly use E again, either offensively or defensively), use W to prep her way out/back in, but by now, the enemies she’s attacking will have had plenty of time to CC her OR they will have flashed away, and that’s the end of the gank. Kat is slippery and dangerous once she’s picked up that lead, but being a Kat player of many years, most players know exactly how to deal with her by now. That’s why you do not see her in high elo tier lists or pro games *ever*

[@thegilfor7238]

13:52 just wanna time stamp this because its good lol.

[@appe7935]

yone has everything to be overpowered and riot acts like nothing is wrong

[@JustaSmilingHedgehog]

Indeed Azir needs another nerf, thanks for the feedback. -Riot Games

[@themaskwhite9612]

@@JustaSmilingHedgehog we also nerfed aurelion sol because why not? ~Riot Games

[@shacolin6546]

@@JustaSmilingHedgehog Azir is another 200 years abomination though.

[@Zero-zr6xx]

Oh Yone's broken? Lemme just nerf toplaners a 5th time And buff jungle 5x more easier Oh ADC's getting one shotted by tanks? Lmao we will remove the adc roles by making everyone a carry lol -probably Riot Games balancing team

[@appe7935]

@@Zero-zr6xx Riot, the Mida's touch of balancing

[@wastingsun]

The main problem i think needs to be verbally said is that "resourceless champions have no innate downsides to doing whatever they want, which is not at all how any other champion in the game gets to be played." Everyone hates Riven and Yone, but frankly every single resourceless character is the same in this way. Their weakness is less of a skill match up and becomes more of a "i beat you because im this character and i lose my weaknesses at this phase of the game". This changes for different characters, but from Katarina to Riven to Garen, resourceless characters inherently advertise for not having innate weaknesses in their kits. "Garen can be kited", ok so what do you do in a situation where you aren't a kiting champ and he has low CDs with no downside for rushing you? "Riven takes skill to flex on people", ok but having that many features but no downsides is an inherent problem. Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.

[@enoeht]

I absolutely cannot stand Viego, both in terms of characterization as well as gameplay. No mana, stealth, stuns, % health damage, an execute reset, can go untargetable multiple times a fight while also healing and "stealing" champions as well as being a toxic angsty edgelord in personality. On top of that, Riot decided to catapult him into "main character" status and make his story arc span the entire season, shoving him down player's throats. Between Viego, Seraphine, and Gwen, Riot seems to be knocking out of the park releasing character after character who is far easier to despise than like.

[@dwight3555]

I mean it's pretty easy to know why: they've been bough by Tencent, and a huge audience of LoL is now in China, in which every poll shows they love random anime hot-anime girl/guy and hate monsters or uniques designs.

[@yahim0568]

I'm really glad someone touched this subject , it's been years and I still can't understand why some champions are allowed to be so broken by design...imagine if shitarina had mana considering the cd reset on kill...it would make the game playable even when your team has no hard cc against that crap...

[@MohammedHossan]

i am 100% with you on it, Yone kit is just too good to be given like that... if he had mana or make his Q and W reduce the use of his E or something like that will be good, anyway nice video

[@mcbrickard]

i know this is an old video but for Viego specifically i feel they could do a bit more with the mist aspect of him. like a mechanic where he gets resource from his passive double AA and when at either certain thresholds or at max it would do more damage / longer stun duration on his W, faster movement / attack speed on his E or not even be able to use it when not at a certain threshold or max, and possibly a longer slow or more dmg on his R. obviously it would come with base dmg and speeds lowered for balancing, such as the E not being able to be used without having a certain amount of resource.

[@EnderPryde]

As I understand, the issue is not being manaless, but not having an *alternate resource* that they need to manage. Heat, fury, grit, energy, even spending health to cast spells - all fine. But just not having any resource management beyond that? Or just having a resource you don't spend/manage, but just passively gain and spend automatically? That seems like an issue.

[@sintech]

garen should just lose the hp regen passive and have his kit based on the new passive. Make him focused on more being "in the fight and keep going", would fit his lore for being an exemplar Demacian soldier.

[@Alexzerian]

"Imagine Vel'Koz without a resource" Everyday when facing the int brothers mid -Vel main