Apex's Movement Dilemma

[@StruthGaming]

🎯Check out the new sleeves and ClawMate mouse mod here - struthgaminggear.com

[@GaaraFPS]

@Struthgaming please give me some type of response. Struth I use to really respect your opinion and i'm a long time kovaaks user, but man this is such a terrible take. Can we talk about how rotational aim assist is broken beyond belief and how movement is literally the only way around the flood of controller players that dominate this game. This isn't a MNK game anymore, most players are swapping to controller and losing out on movement for why? explain that. ok after watching this whole video and getting my thoughts together the fact that you only briefly mentioned rotational aim assist actually almost made me blow a whole gasket, like are you kidding me man, there's so much I can agree with here like raising the TTK, they've nerfed every weapon to only make fights more fair so players wouldn't feel like they were getting beamed by 301 before it was nerfed to getting the havoc nerfed after seasons of it not being touched because they nerfed every LMG, then every AR, and then every SMG to the wingman getting nerfed. Realistically you glanced over the whole direction this game has moved into, the fact that EA won't allowed respawn to nerf aim assist out of fear of losing capital to be gained that come from controller players who AA crutch their way through most of their games. Losing that amount of money won't ever be worth it in respawn/EA's eyes. on a final note, it seems like you're out of touch with game and don't realize that brute aim isn't going to be the way you win in every game. the fact that you even said that having wattson fences will make breaching buildings harder or the other controller legends existing when characters like alter exist, and even before that none of said characters did anything much besides catalyst or they would actually have an pick rate that isn't below 5. Most players that even play wattson are movement oriented and use her fences *offensively*. I'm really trying not to be mad at this video and trying to understand how you came to even have this take, but man i'm so disappointed in you and I RARELY feel that way about most people.

[@GaaraFPS]

like brother man read the comments please, there's people here siding with you because they don't understand why rotational aim assist is broken, and saying stuff like MNK has no recoil and controller does. you have to give better talking points and do some better research before starting this witch hunt on movement players, I get you said you don't want all of their work to go to waste and kill of a whole breed of apex players, yet you make this ill informed video on players that are apart of the .1% bracket of players that can actively pull off all of this movement in situations where most players barely even wall bounce in a fight.

[@Mokeysniper]

3 Things. 1. Using Intention and holding up Titanfall as an example of a good movement system cus all the tech was "intended" is very flawed. Beyond the basic Tech, none of it was "intended". Grapple slingshotting, Slidehopping, Tap-Strafing, Wallkicks, Endboosts, Crouchkicks etc. are all not intended in Titanfall 2. Yet they become essential beyond a basic skill level. Could go on for hours about "intended" tech vs exploits vs emergent gameplay. 2. The High TTK argument is a really good one. And i hadn't thought about it's interplay with SBMM to be honest. Feels like that is where the most interesting discussion about this could be had. 3. 14:00 hits the nail on the head so much it's not even funny. Every time i make a video about a movement tech or an exploit i get comments that it's now ruined cus now everyone knows it. The gatekeeping mindset some people have is really upsetting. I am quiet a fundamentalist when it comes to that. I'd rather inform as many people as possible about something and force a Game-dev into making an official call on it, rather than trying to hide it so only some people can exclusively benefit from it. Can't believe some believe actually entertain this toxic mindset.

[@ender_z4nd3r83]

the good thing is even when you explain tech so it isnt gatekept most people dont try to learn it, but at least your intention is good

[@MikeGrau0hr]

2:23 struth:"movement tech in apex is a bad thing overall." i used to follow this channel. until they told me theyre not interested in improving their apex movement since its not related to the channel which is about aim. xD "apex is a game in which you have to mainly ads" - struth in "How to find your PERFECT sensitivity" ...

[@onikrux]

real as it gets。

[@Anarcaeful]

All i want from apex is that they clean up the visual clutter. Targets literally disappear behind flashes of smoke, dust and sparks.

[@youspilledthis]

I fully agree, rev ult and ballistic ult for instance make your screen a neon mess. Not to mention the effect of shooting and hitting another player with shield, so much obstructing clutter make the gunplay exhausting.

[@Negurasis]

if movement is a problem, rotational AA is cheating

[@j123456789177]

rotational AA is cheating eather way

[@syntheticseju]

AA is actually a cheat

[@Zencho639]

Both are legal cheating

[@Negurasis]

@@Zencho639 movement takes skill, aa doesn't take shi

[@Rolkey]

@@Negurasisif it’s not intended then it’s an exploit

[@ValentineNTT]

the whole point about movement is that its fun, rewarding and creates a skill gap to aim to master along side aiming problem is when people abuse it with illegal scripts and configs and the highest skill is achieved to average cheaters making it seem casual

[@OfficialMyMindset]

It’s not fun when u have to buy a new keyboard just to perform one move. Had to get a wooting cos my prior one just didn’t work (1/20) and with wooting it’s 70%+. They need to do something so that movement is no longer an engine but an intended feature that takes SOME skill not having to buy new peripherals etc

[@ValentineNTT]

@@OfficialMyMindset better peripherals would matter just the same then

[@sodacaps3998]

This is a good point, A lot of newer players actually just can't play Apex. Because apex as we know it today is either 1 : Plug in a controller. or 2 : Learn a bunch of frame perfect inputs and put in 10k hours of aim practice (Or just script lol). What makes games like Warzone and Fortnite so accessible is that while there are players that are better, you never feel like you never stood a chance. Playing apex is full of the thoughts of "Why did i even try?" Apex at least to me went from "Positioning and Aim wins fights" to "Who can pull out the most lil tricks and niche inputs, (or who has the controller plugged in)" It's a hard say! Input based matchmaking would fix the whole AA debate issue, but not the movement issue, Nerfing the movement would make the AA debate even more volatile, Nerfing AA would do the same. Lowering the time the kill will make players with a superiority complex implode when they die because of a bad position/play (hell they already do that enough as is). So its a hard call. and as far as I know, Respawn kind of don't care about the casual market for the game outside of marketing it towards them with skins and events. They rreeaalllly care about ALGS and that sort of play style. its why I honestly doubt they will make any meaningful changes to the casual side. And I don't think Solos, Quads, Three Strikes, or any other "Flavour of the month" modes are the solution to make the game feel fun. They gotta have a system where players can still "Have a chance" and i wouldn't even know where to start with that. as far as I know, most of the people who played apex casually are gone, off to play Fortnite or Cod. Apex just has its Hardcore community left. and its probably why the SBMM has felt so Harsh for them too, there isn't any casuals left to #BestNAMovementGod on! I'd love for apex to make an actual comeback, but to be completely honest. I really don't think it can.

[@sodacaps3998]

I do think movement techniques should at LEAST be officially implemented. because then it takes skill to use it in a unique way. Using a movement tech shouldn't win you a fight. Its how you use it that should. Sure there is the argument over "skill expression" and "skill ceiling". But Skill Expression / Skill Ceiling should never be "I can do the frame perfect input you cant". At that point Apex just starts to feel like Competitive Skate 3, and Competitive Skate 3 is AWFUL (if you know you know). Anything related to Ras/Lurch strafing can go though. That stuff can get deleted and never come back, and it would benefit the game. Though also keep in mind, the Controller movement CFGs plagued the game for YEARS until "pro" players complained. only then was it removed. same with Superglide and Lurch strafe CFGs. So the only chance we ever have to make the game more balanced movement wise, is if the #2024BestNARollerMovementGodApexPro 's somehow randomly decide they no longer want their advantage over people. and good luck with that ever happening.

[@jbowen867]

Could you imagine the que times for input based matchmaking. The keyboard and mouse players would never find games. I'm all for it if they stop complaining about controllers

[@sodacaps3998]

@@jbowen867 why do you think all the kbm players switched?

[@samatics4]

Movement is the only thing MnK has that slightly combats aim assist. And like you said it’s very unreliable, not to mention only a fraction of players can even do the crazy movement we like see in these videos. The problem is and always has been overpowered aim assist. Although I will say the handful of sweaty movement players that post their clips supergliding on casuals really hurts our chances of AA ever getting nerfed. Overall this game is really going down the drain.

[@extraspongy]

Having these movement techs available in apex (intended or not) drastically raises the skill ceiling, and allows for the skill expression that people love so much in this game. These techs are accessible to anyone on pc, and are often easier on lower spec pc's (with some of them being frame dependant) There are countless other shooter games in which movement is predictable and realistic. I do agree that making these techs intended would change the landscape of movement, but we should be looking for ways to raise the skill ceiling, not lowering it (rotational AA as you mentioned). As someone who's hit masters/pred on both inputs, the skill expression in movement is what has brought me back to mouse and keyboard time and time again. I'm not sure what the answer here is, but I do appreciate you starting the discussion and offering some fresh ideas on a topic that's been flogged.

[@dc7339]

it also alienates newer or controller players. The movement on Apex is unnatural, never intended, and it's only for MnK.

[@acrylix3073]

Unintended -> Intended subsitute: Superglide -> jetpack superjump every 10s. Mantle jump -> ^. Tap strafing -> swing around corners when jump + strafe near a corner. Nerf the random tap-strafing out in the open.

[@arclet1299]

The only ppl that have a problem with this take are the people that cant kill anyone without exploits. They have horrible counter aguments as well that other bums agree with. They also are just part of a tiny percentage of the community so if respawn decides to nuke godawful movement one day they will cry dead game but in 2 weeks it will be back to normal.

[@uiebwuiowebuiopwebfoipbewfoip]

its not inconsisten you just arent familiarized with the timing yet

[@dennisapaer9658]

Movement techs, mechanics are the reason i play games. Apex, Titanfall, Rocket League,..

[@twpsyn]

movement tech requiring skill to achieve is what makes fast active shooters stick around for years. people still play quake and team fortress because of the analogue movement mechanics that take thousands of hours to master. when everyone is forced on the same level by removing this tech or making it overwatch pharah jump jet easy, you lower the skill expression and depth of the game.

[@MirkwoodRS]

Quake is, and has been completely dead for years now. There is like an average of 100-300 daily players across the various quake games according to Steam Charts. Matter of fact one of the biggest arguments for why Quake is dead is bc of how high the barrier of entry is. A new player can't just join a game of Quake and play casually without getting shitstomped into oblivion by some 40yr old boomer who hasn't gotten off Quake for the last 20 years.

[@HasturBeta]

My only problem with movement tech is that it just doesn't make sense with the physics in the game. Like I get gaining some inertia from parkouring off of something, but to go from 0 to sonic the hedgehog always just felt off to me

[@aksu02]

Your issue with movement tech is that its unintented. Even when movement tech isnt INTENDED to exist in the game initially, it can later become a significant part of the game. Look at bunnyhopping, rocketjumping, runboosting etc in other games. I find unintended tech in games very interesting. Finding quirks about the complex physics system and turning it into repeatable movement tech. In Battlefield 4 there is still new tech being found 10 years after release and I suspect the same for Apex. If there was some ridiculous teleporting movement tech in Apex like in BF4, it would be too powerful and devs could remove it. I dont think any tech in current Apex is that powerful that it should be removed. Movement tech has been shown in Season trailers iirc, so devs probably know of them and have decided not to remove them. I do agree that maybe some tech should be made more accessible. Superglide should be more consistent on higher framerates for example. I do think the game has bigger problems than this, such as visibility and roller, but great video and interesting topic.

[@taylorm841]

my solution was for them to put input based mm in mixtape, which is PERFECTLY reasonable and if we dont see it im gonna riot.

[@fox.5730]

Games become classics like titanfall and GunZ because of movement techs that probably weren't intended, pretending there aren't any in titanfall is the hill this argument completely fell apart on, people just want a skill gap in their games, there is no issue with movement other than that the game is crossplay and one input method just doesn't have access to it

[@ExiledSummoner]

I would like it if I had something that I could at least cling to and build off of like it gives you In Titanfall. they give you double jumping they give you wall running They even give you perks to let you run and gun or stand on walls and shoot off of them.

[@fox.5730]

You could definitely argue that the gap between movement players and regular movement should be smaller, I'd agree with that and Titanfall is a good example of this.

[@anitrok_]

I think the main problem isn't movement, rather is the visual clutter and bad visibility. Movement is fine, tap strafes and wall bounces are fairly simple to pull off and are the most useful you will need in a fight, but the visual clutter in this game is so bad I keep losing track of my enemies when I start to shoot at them, so when they start moving around I just can't see. The crosshair customization in this game is also bad, the default crosshair blends in with the enemy, even if you change the colour of it. Someone made a video changing the crosshairs with an external app (re-shade I think) and that looked good enough, and also a very small change the game could implement.

[@LongerThanAverageUsername]

Remove AA entirely and add MNK support to console version of the game if they insist on keeping crossplay.

[@fleerultra5989]

or just impliment input based MM with MnK support on console.

[@Rolkey]

That would kill the game because the average gamer is not a competitive tryhard. Unless your funding EA’s next 5 billion dollars income each year that change wouldn’t make sense.

[@dc7339]

it's still not balanced. Controller players use 2 little toggles to move and aim. There is a lot of restrictions because of that. Also, MnK has almost no recoil.

[@LongerThanAverageUsername]

@@dc7339 that’s the point. Use a mnk or go back to kiddie pool with the rest of the console players. I don’t know what you want us to say. You chose poorly, that’s entirely your fault.

[@GaaraFPS]

@@dc7339 BRO HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE THIS, you have no clear idea what recoil smoothing is nor how aim assist ruins the game.

[@P1rateGrub]

i think movement is fun as fuck and makes apex what it is. the fact, that players can adopt and master different skills like aim, positioning, gamesense, etc. and counter masters of one skill by mastering a different skill is really cool. i think that part of what makes this game so popular is the fact, that it has such a high skill ceiling and so many things to be learned. my only issue is, that a lot of things have hardware limitations. with a bad keyboard it'll be nearly impossible to perform a lot of movement tech and thus it kinda gatekeeps that aspect of the game, which is a shame in my opinion. the fact, that it wasn't intended doesn't mean that it's bad, thogh. i still think that movement should stay skill based and that respawn shouldn't remove these techniques, just because it wasn't their original intent for people to be able to move that way. watering the tech down by making inputs easier is also not the best solution imo.

[@zakurazt]

I bought your gaming arm sleeve about 3-4 hours ago I hope ill get to use it soon!

[@ExperimentalKana]

why we want to do movement tech is the same reason we play the game it feels satisfying

[@faithrahul]

Idk how to do mantle jump I don’t usually do super glide.. but this all making game interesting and alive. otherwise we have options of BR to play

[@SpeedingWheelbarrow]

From my perspective (for context I'm slightly above average in apex overall, and a mid-low tier movement player) the reason I don't want things like super gliding to be "officially implemented" is yes partially the prestige, I like that the effort I put in to be extremely consistent (around 75-85% with 95-100% potentials based on training data) is reflected directly in how often I succeed. Why do I do movement, not because I think it makes me better or to gloat, honestly just cause it looks cool and feels extremely fun, if all I wanted was to win more I'd give up on movement and hard focus other skills. This brings me to the actual main reason I don't want super gliding to be an official mechanic, a small part (30% or so) of why I find it so fun, is the rush of momentum you get out of nowhere, but the larger part (70% ish) is the time I put into learning it, completely enhances the level enjoyment in the rush I still feel. I don't want anything to be hidden from players or gate kept. Anytime anyone asks about something I did cause it looked cool, I'm so excited to talk with them about it and try to teach them. I've probably spent around 100 hours at this point just teaching people things in the range cause it's awesome and they should be able to learn if they think it's cool! I like that it's not as simple as press button to zoom, I like that it takes real skill and practice, but I also want people to learn and Im gonna continue to put in the time to help them where I can.

[@JarJarBongs]

Rly great vid man

[@HaasArrest]

Very reasonable take to me.

[@tae-joon]

Should be officiated.

[@frogery]

Movement is the only thing keeping me playing this controller infested game

[@aqwek]

coming back to this video 4 months later: rotational aa: gone. change it so controller players don't have a legit aimbot. tap-strafing: add a button for it for controllers. tap strafing is official, it's in some trailers, so why keep it from the entire console community? superglides: make it a feature. hitting jupm and crouch at the right time on a mantle makes you superglide. and while you're at it change sbmm

[@konnj]

Apex doesn't have a movement problem, it's a Octane problem, just disable lurch when stimming with octane and it's fixed.

[@syntheticseju]

Do you also feel that the tickrate in the game seems to have decreased? Previously, the registration of bullets from each weapon was completely different, now no one shoots consistently from a wingman or shotgun

[@Phoon-8104]

Without all the mvmt tech on Apex (I am a mvmt nerd myself) I would play another shooter because other games have more satisfying shooting. I enjoy doing all the mvmt like you see movementless do in your video and ALSO focus on my aim at the same time. It's the only online game that makes me use 100% of my brain and focus as I am both trying to get that well-timed mvmt tech AND then focus on hitting my shots. The best thing to do is when you pick a shotgun or a sniper (without scope), land near a vertical zipline and going crazy around the zipline while hitting my target. It also fortifies my aim in every game because, at the same time I need to: -track my target's movement -correct my aim as I am also moving very fast in a direction -control my weapon recoil/vertical kick So, in my opinion, Apex is the beginning of the new generation of gaming, which can require both training and brain usage and multitasking even more than any other sport existing until that day.

[@sam-gz1ql]

Do not ever compare Apex legends to a real sport again

[@casull2041]

what? dude what kind of shooters have u played other than apex 😂 that sounds miserable. i mean i grew with unreal and quake but imo this game just have watered down tf2 movement and less macro than your average arena shooters lol

[@Phoon-8104]

I said if you play Apex full movement guys! If I wanna play it only 'move and shoot', every FPS is better. I played CS Source CSGO valorant R6 ...

[@JKennyPro]

@@casull2041 Titanfall prior to apex being out (and all its techs being discovered that are transferrable to Titanfall too due to it being from the source engine but weren't known about then) had less insane movement than 2021+ apex point blank period, between mantle jumps, lurch strafing, super glides, elite jumps, ghost jumps, mantle cancels, fatigue bounces, wall run teching, quick sliding, the list goes on and on, the readability on apex movement and insane acceleration outdoes all Titanfall tech by a long shot, all Titanfall movement was very linear in the sense, sure you go way faster (like with grapple slingshot bhop teching) but you're going in a predictable path, is it easy to track that speed? absolutely not, but the movement was very linear. there's nothing in Titanfall that is as insane of a movement combination as fighting someone, crouch behind a small box, quick slide out tap strafe into a u turn wall bounce into a neo strafe.

[@casull2041]

@@JKennyPro yep it's still more mid than quake is what i'm trying to say haha

[@notcyfhr]

this is just like fighting games remember street fighter 3 parrying the chunli kicks was near impossible which made it cool but they made it easier but people agree other things are more important than frame perfect punches. So I think i see a correlation my friends always hated playing with me because I'm pc and my movement is good but everything else not so much. So I would spend my time learning movement tech because I was bored but no one was able to do it besides a small group of people I knew

[@jbowen867]

The armor change happend the same time they took a care package devo and made it floor loot it was awful timing

[@Raz-G]

There was a rise in rollers, there's a rise in innovating movement tech to counter rollers. I don't know, seems fine.

[@ExperimentalKana]

if you remove movement you will genuinely trash the game

[@sanders850]

Hey great content and channel...what's your opinion about toggle vs hold for aiming?

[@cavi_mw8229]

ive been into aiming for awhile now, im getting a skypad 4.0 soon, i wanna know your stance on it? If you like glass mousepads or not

[@SoulsSave]

Average player here. I mostly play Apex and other FPS games. I had the 3.0, it’s a learning curve but once you get used to it it’s insane. With that being said I stopped using it because an arm sleeve is a must and it kills your mouse skates where you constantly have to replace them.

[@jasonmighty3328]

Modern movement games always fail, why, because it creates a level of entry which is too high for casual gamer who make up most of the player base. Old arena shooters genuinely are soo much fun... until someone strafe jumping kills you while they are travelling 10 times the movement cap.

[@jbowen867]

Lowering ttk just makes it call of duty. I'm for one am sick of the steming octanes doing the rediculous movements that was never intended but high ttk is what makes it diffrent from pub g or cs go or call or duty.

[@testtube173]

I think movement tech is fun but the inherent need to increase movement ability to distinguish skill is kinda frustrating. I like to wall bounce and avoid enemy damage but the ever increasing ceiling makes the simple act of playing a video game more of a chore. For instance walking into a room and head shooting people to death doesn't require isnane mechanics but is more valuable than surviving a stacks damage for a few more seconds via jumping around like a circus. On top of all of this the more movement you incorporate the more strain it takes to aim at targets yourself. Like the onus of being good at the game is reaching such ludicrous heights that it's no long fun to play the game itself as every fight against good players is over the top stressful for little to no reward. I don't know I quit Apex months and months ago because the grind felt more like a wall than hurdles and the ever increasing skill gaps and Respawns attempts to narrow them meant that even when you succeed you will fail due to design.

[@cyborkninja1139]

I think of it this way, if winning and overcoming the AA is the issue, why arent all the movement players just plugging a controller? You didn't address the fun factor. Movement, going fast, doing something flashy definitely has a pretty big fun element to it.

[@kurodream4640]

Since we're talking unpopular opinions anyways how about this, movement tech should be officially implemented but only for mnk players. This way you cant enjoy both input specific benefits on controller only.

[@sebthealien]

Everything said here is facts but the apex community isn't ready for this conversation, and the apex devs are incapable of having their game function let alone balancing it :')

[@bathsaltfiend986]

genuinely bad take.rocket jumping was also "unintended". most of other complex ways of movement on source engine is unintended. it does not take away from the game. it is fun to learn and perforrm in pubs, but not a single pro player uses anything besides slidejump and superglide which anyone can(and should) learn in a couple hours. you as a player are better off just getting good in other directions like aim, positioning and game sense, map control etc. etc. being able to buy a fake ps4 controller and being granted with aimbot on close to mid ranges is a much more gamebreaking issue, and the reason why i quit the game altogether. ik you are hyper focused on aim but asking to dumb down another half of the skill expression available in the game seems really petty.

[@SuperScoops]

"DEAR EA, An Apex Legends Re-design"

[@vodellc7590]

I wouldn’t mind if they made movement easier and more accessible but if they remove it I will never play this game again because to me if I can’t fly around on octane I’m just going to go play call of duty but I totally agree with officiating it ( also this game totally needs a ttk decrease it would make it feel so much better )

[@r3mii-CL]

I don’t mind movement, I enjoy it, but playing players like movementless often would be really annoying

[@onikrux]

I always thought if they went over all the movement tech with a fine tooth brush, and just made it more *intentional*.. things would be alot healthier. I respect the way it is now, the amount of variance, flow, and technique reminds me of Extreme Sports. But what I dislike is how gatekept it is from the Controller players, when they took away steam settings (for good reason) but didn't offer an ingame alternative. How gatekept it is from people who's fingers dont' work at 350APM. How gatekept it is from people who don't have the best hardware. I could go on^ ie: Fortnite's Turbo settings are basically the only reason new players can still get good and keep up at building for example. And ofcourse in most cases of automation, the automatic and easier way offers slightly less precision and freedom that a practiced Manual-input player would have.

[@misc.2331]

1. I don't think removing movement would be good for the game. Movement makes the game both fun to play and fun to watch. Without those two things the game would lose interest quick. Apex has a lot of competition and their competition has fast TTKs and minimal movement tech. The worst thing apex could do is try to be more like the competition. 2. With that being said, you're right about it not being "intentional" and I agree that's a bad thing. It makes movement on one input type not possible without configs or 3rd party software. They need to make it so that controller players and mnk players both have access to the same consistent movement. It's unfair that one input gets to do all these crazy moves but the other doesn't. 3. Lowering TTK would be better for worse players but it would be bad for retaining players, because if I'm a good player there's no need to put in the time to get better. Dying in 1 millisecond because you got caught out in the open because zone didn't go your way is a frustrating experience for players of all skill level. Lowering TTK is essentially redistributing skill. I don't see anything wrong with players who put time in the game to get better winning more games and fights than players who haven't. Apex should do everything they can to help newer players improve by providing different modes, tutorials, custom bot games where the player can set up different scenarios, etc. But fundamentally apex is a competitive game and should cater to those looking for that experience. To do otherwise would destroy the very essence of what apex and battle royales are.

[@WhatsaNamehelp]

Yo what sensitivity do you use?

[@FearWarboar4135]

Ima stop you right there. Movement is the heart and soul of Apex Legends. It is unique, demanding, and satisfying. The game has a high skill ceiling and Apex’s wide array of movement tech gives players something to strive for. To anyone who hates fighting movement players and cries and demands for tap strafing, lurches and superglides to be removed I offer you a thought. Every single other shooter has exactly what you want. CoD. Valorant. Fortnite. Finals. xDefiant. All of these games you just point and shoot, and there’s only 1 apex with the advanced tech we love. Leave it tf alone.

[@MikeGrau0hr]

[@Shyvorix]

I think the main issue Apex is having is the raising of the skill ceiling is also somehow unintentionally raising the skill floor and this is partially because of the casual side of Apex quitting more and more, and those that remain move to controller to utilize the AA to have a chance to fight movement demons. It sucks cause the movement tech is neat as hell (I do wish it was a bit more streamlined tho like in Titanfall 2...) and the gunplay feels great, but the idea of Apex careening to this eventuality of "You either develop amazing aim and movement or give up and swap to controller." That seems to be heading towards is extremely worrying. There exists various levels of skill amongst the playerbase. The actual trash, the bad, the meh, the okay/decent, the good, the very good, the excellent, the best, the pros. If the trash all quit, the bad become trash. If the bad then quit, the meh become trash. Etc etc keep going until all that remains is all the extremely good players and player count is a few thousand a day globally (looking at you titanfall 2 player count for the longest time.....)

[@WarpSonic]

Not an Apex player, but I think the answer to your last question is "because it's fun"

[@bsuwolf6302]

This video seems to be about raising the skill level of the casuals. Similarly to how cod just gave controller players insane aim assist. The only thing not accessible for movement is tap strafing on rollar. Everything else is learnable. Imo this is like saying if you miss 50% of your shots let's make it so you hit 100% of your shots instead. Pred players should never play with lower skilled players. Sbmm should be adjusted for that.

[@redexexile795]

the knockdown shield is way too strong and they need to remove it

[@UpstageBeast]

That movement is the only thing that makes Apex more interesting than any other mainstream shooter. It's an extension of them using the same engine as Titanfall 2, which has an even higher skill ceiling than Apex when it comes to utilizing niche tech. You can't exactly say that a new player can expect the stomping they're about to receive upon entering a match. Nothing in-game will prepare them for it because there's nothing remotely close to the tech veterans will use against them.

[@Hk7762Tube]

Octane bouncing like a ball all over the place - sKiLLeD MoVEmEnt player on HE keyboard, got it. Same as, SMG controller - sKiLLeD AiMer?

[@TheRealJnZ]

It's certainly an important topic to be discussed, but if I understand your video correctly I must say that I disagree. The TTK is a major problem that controls a lot of the game, that I agree with, but I think you miss the mark on movement in general. It was a good video, and I watched it together with some people I played apex with and it sparked good conversation around the game.

[@dc7339]

MnK movement was never intended for the game and it's unbalanced because only MnK players can do it. If one input can do it, both inputs should be able to do it, or both inputs can't. Ruins the game for a lot of players, especially new players and controller players. Honestly, it looks like a joke that a character can jump and jerk to a different direction, fly off a box, neostrafe...etc. It's unnatural, never intended and it's for only one input.

[@chad6]

That’s the root of the issue right there. I hate the way mnk players immediately shift the issue to AA to try and distract from the fact that only ONE input can do the BS. Aim assist or not you can pick up a gun and shoot somebody, but one input that can momentum shift midair at insane speeds? I don’t understand how in the world anyone can justify it.

[@dc7339]

@@chad6exactly. New players try the game out and see opponents fly through the air quickly snapping to another direction, flying off boxes, bouncing very fast back and forth in different directions, and they decide they don’t want to play it anymore. Imagine controller players who start playing Apex and see that crap and finds out that their input can’t do that. I’ve never played a game so unbalanced and I’ve never seen such a contrast between inputs. How does that ever make sense on a game? I honestly rather them just separate lobbies based on input.

[@shinobeFire]

100% agree with your opinion on movement. These things have been on my mind for a long time now. Movement tech should easily accessible and intentional or removed. Movement tech clowns won't admit they are just "glitching". Aim assist is worse though. I have a feeling cheat makers aren't writing scripts for aimbot and are just adjusting the games AA values from 0.4 to 1.0. For the record I love games with intentional fun movement like COD black ops 3, overwatch and old school fps like Quake 3 and Jedi Outcast 2.

[@GhostSoldier100T]

W upload

[@OsmZeebo]

Why do we want to do movement ? What is it accomplishing ? Could we achieve same thing in a simpler way ? The answer is : Expression Some view gaming as a harmless hobby. Some view gaming as an outlet for there intelligence. Others view it as both of those things and add creativity and self expression into what there doing. If it wasn’t for the ones who aren’t scared to express there creativity there would be no Fortnite building. There would be no apex movement. There would be no mine craft speed runs. There would be no rocket league free styling. The thing is not everyone wants everything to be perfect and always end in a win. Not everyone is doing something to get it done like everyone else does. Some people like to make everything art. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is crazy. Doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result is work. Doing something different over and over with an unexpected result is art. Unpredictably is beautiful:)

[@danpetros5547]

Just buff the guns that are underperforming rather than nerfing them over and over again without lowering HP, this essentially lowers ttk and would actually feel good to pick up non meta guns as they are still viable. The close range fights right now feels a bit awful and I feel like I am being forced to use AR and LMG and just poke damage to enemies which feels so boring to me and I hate the idea of limiting movement techniques as they are what makes this game so unique and fun and the moment movement gets nerfed in apex is the moment apex is not apex anymore. And trust me, roller is better in everyway possible at the moment and its not even close to be balanced against all input and the moment movement is nerfed is the moment apex will be a console game rather than a game for all players in the input

[@Rao6505]

Having to abuse movement to have any hope at competing with controller players...

[@-LAH]

it doesn't even work. the killcams are showing me that superglides mean absolutely nothing in the face of aa

[@senX]

handle cheating, seperate console from pc, disable AA on pc and then this discussion might be worth having

[@Becke963]

I agree that this is a problem but lowering the ttk isn't a good solution imo.

[@mobydaredcomrade]

Just a point on lower the TTK, Apex tried this for a season (can’t remember which one) and it made the game much worse. Universally hated and was reserved. Edit: I finished the rest of the video and see you touch on that. 😅 To address your question at the end, I think Apex has needed, since the problem spawned, to incorporate at least some of the movement techs. As a Gold/Plat average joe, who was always a fan of watching high level Apex, I had mixed feelings about the techs. On one hand, I realized the amount of skill expression it allowed, and I never wanted to lower the skill ceiling just because I wasn’t good enough. But it was also so frustrating the amount of time and effort it took it even successfully do them in the practice range. I learned to tap strafe and wall bounce (could never super glide) but the mechanics were so clunky that I never really pulled them off in game. And while, given my MMR, I didn’t face many movement players in QP and ranked, you would get them a often enough in control, and given you are not used to facing them, you struggle dealing with them. I would like to see an approach similar to Mercy from OW1 to OW2, where the movement tech became official and more dialed in to how the devs envisioned it would work fairly. Incorporating these techs, raising the skill floor, will still let high level players use it (and likely more efficiently) while still providing accessibility to fun game play to your average Joe.

[@Valla451]

Game has needed a lower TTK for a long time now. Lowering the value in tower defense and by making strategic pushes more worthwhile. As it stands its better to hold untill you are forced to move because of positional value alone. Apart from that its never worth the risk with how easy escaping is with movement and high ttk. Players take any advantage they can get over other players these days. So much movement tech makes reading and reacting to the opponent a gamble and reduces competitive integrity Not implementing the movement so that its accessible and consistent is the team not wanting to upset players and affect profits. Apex is a pack of rats that lost the race years ago

[@Valla451]

@@fleerultra5989 people don't like change With enough time people will get used to it

[@konnj]

They lowered the TTK many seasons ago, it was totally unplayable. Game is pure garbage with low TTK.

[@solluxugo8804]

It's really not that complicated. Movement tech feels good to do and looks cool as well (from the player's perspective atleast). I quit apex months ago due to being sick of the cheaters both regular and controller but man after apex every other game felt terrible to play due to the movement feeling so clunky in comparison. That's why people are pissed when you nerf movement, you're taking away their fun.

[@ExiledSummoner]

I feel like this video is saying everything that I've been feeling since I tried to pick back up the game. It's not like Titanfall where they try to get everyone in at a base level and regardless of if you're a god or a casual, you can have some type of fun. It's more like you got this dude cracked out on Adderall "neospace super strafe gliding 360 cheese nipples" with special commands to do extremely niche movements more often on a guy that just got done with a 12-hour shift. Like tf am I supposed to do with this?😂 I've got like 400 to 500 hours in this game. Trying to learn all of that garbage too and it's just not sticking. But not only that, I don't even think it's for the character I like to play. It just feels like this forever wall that's permanently gating me from playing The same game as everyone else in and that I'm always destined to be trolling every time I launch it.

[@jonathanhilliard971]

Or just stop people from cheating, with their aim and movements. Exploits are cheating. No recoil macros, is cheating. Ez.

[@GaaraFPS]

@Struthgaming please give me some type of response. Struth I use to really respect your opinion and i'm a long time kovaaks user, but man this is such a terrible take. Can we talk about how rotational aim assist is broken beyond belief and how movement is literally the only way around the flood of controller players that dominate this game. This isn't a MNK game anymore, most players are swapping to controller and losing out on movement for why? explain that. *ok after watching this whole video and getting my thoughts together the fact that you only briefly mentioned rotational aim assist actually almost made me blow a whole gasket, like are you kidding me man, there's so much I can agree with here like raising the TTK, they've nerfed every weapon to only make fights more fair so players wouldn't feel like they were getting beamed by 301 before it was nerfed to getting the havoc nerfed after seasons of it not being touched because they nerfed every LMG, then every AR, and then every SMG to the wingman getting nerfed.* Realistically you glanced over the whole direction this game has moved into, the fact that EA won't allowed respawn to nerf aim assist out of fear of losing capital to be gained that come from controller players who AA crutch their way through most of their games. Losing that amount of money won't ever be worth it in respawn/EA's eyes. on a final note, it seems like you're out of touch with game and don't realize that brute aim isn't going to be the way you win in every game. the fact that you even said that having wattson fences will make breaching buildings harder or the other controller legends existing when characters like alter exist, and even before that none of said characters did anything much besides catalyst or they would actually have an pick rate that isn't below 5. Most players that even play wattson are movement oriented and use her fences *offensively*. I'm really trying not to be mad at this video and trying to understand how you came to even have this take, but man i'm so disappointed in you and I RARELY feel that way about most people.

[@EEEEEEEEEEE4-i6v]

skill issue

[@DashhMobile]

Roger that..

[@Halleiet]

Apex dies if the battle pass changes are not reverted.

[@athan1281]

Heard this before

[@Rolkey]

@@athan1281Whales will keep on whaling until they shut the game down, the games not going to die.

[@athan1281]

@@Rolkey fr

[@MikeGrau0hr]

2:23 it being controversial is irrelevant - since youre generally not interested in movement tech unfortunately your opinion isnt worth much in this context. you should learn about it before talking about it

[@athan1281]

I like the discussion. For me, if they removed tap strafing, it would take away a lot of why i got so into Apex. I think tap strafing a wall bouncing is a whole different conversation from neostrafing. However, neostrafing players dont bother me as much anymore since getting better on mnk. My point is, i think most of the movement is healthy for the game.

[@MikeGrau0hr]

neostrafing isnt possible anymore since a year or so?^^ and just to make sure were on the same page: when i say "neostrafing" i mean the kind of strafing which is invented by the player NEO who then started selling configs which were the only way to do the tech... maybe you mean a different movement tech like "ras strafing" (called after the player ras btw)?

[@athan1281]

@@MikeGrau0hr we still have scroll wheels

[@dc7339]

They need to remove movement because they are not going to retain newer players, casual players and controller players. The game's already dying.

[@konnj]

The thing that's killing new players is they get oneclipped by roller players instantly that just rushes into them and kills them with near 100% consistency.

[@dc7339]

@@konnj well maybe they shouldn't stand in place like bots. It's not common even for roller players to one-clip somebody unless they're standing still. I have close to 5K hours on the game and I've probably been one clipped less than a handful of times.

[@dc7339]

@@konnj you do know that more than 80% of players on PC are controller players, and everyone on console also use controllers, right?

[@Cuppar]

you're acting like movement tech even gives an advantage, most people who use it dont use it properly, most people use it because its fun. Aim Assist will out perform movement 9/10 times anyway. Just leave it how it is, not everyone is like faide and can spend 5k hours learning how to implement it properly. removing movement would just make mnk completely useless and you can't implement them as in game mechanic as that would just make roller more OP.

[@redexexile795]

no controller aim assist

[@vagabondcaleb8915]

Terrible take. We should also just get rid of manual inputs and just use eye tracking so that the skill gap becomes zero. Then we can just level up one more time and start rolling a single die as our only form of entertainment.

[@HaasArrest]

Surely a strawman argument is the correct response.

[@vagabondcaleb8915]

Hyperbole =/= strawman.....

[@HaasArrest]

@@vagabondcaleb8915 Person 1 asserts proposition X. Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X. You're a fool.

[@SatchmoBronson]

@@HaasArrest it's not really a strawman at all, Struth is basically advocating for a perfectly level playing field where individual skill doesn't matter (except for aim because that's the only skill he seems to care about, except that if it comes down to aim mnk will lose every time because controller exists) without this movement apex would have died years ago

[@redexexile795]

even with a 240 fps monitor i still have trouble tracking people moving that fast almost like a speed hack

[@faithrahul]

Hey can i pls ask your settings for apex looks pretty awesome

[@isthislunar]

sounds like a skill issue

[@S1wply]

So your telling me that practicing something for hours and hours on end and being a part of those players, that u can count by hand, that can move like that is bad ? hm ok ill just pick up a controller and play like a bot all day. i dont understand why u made this video i mean every1 can do every movement tech u just need to practice it and put the hours on the game, if u dont to put the hours on it ok good just dont expect to move like movementless, faide, me all the movement players and i mean all of them not just streamers. its not easy thats a fact but it does not have to be, everything u said just made me think your lazy since u want to make every1 move like a player who has more than 5k hours like faide on this game. like i said if u dont to put the hours into learning movement sure its ok just dont expect to move like the top movement players, its called a skill gap.

[@Decki777]

apex legends is very predictable when it comes to gun fights that's apex LAN is so boring to watch it's impossible to win 1v3 in Lan because of stupid high ttk

[@mrrw0lf]

movement tech is a skill gab its available to any pc player if u decide to pick up a controller on pc u gave up getting good yourself most of the times anyway... u can get to high levels of concistancy with movement it might not be fully intended but its accessible to anybody on pc and alot of stuff is even accessible to console (super glides,superjumps, mantle jumps, advanced slide jumps, walljumps, d fatique jumps, airstrafing) and probably some more... the problem with making movement tech super easy aka super reliable for low low skilled people is what whe saw with controllers running neostrafe configs where they could choose out of 8 directions to tabstrafe at will and easily chain it into insane patterns that only the top percentile of mnk movement enthusiasts could achieve... it was horrible none of those fucked up anything there was no skill gap it was just pressing down the stick and moving it

[@isaiahingram-l4y]

To me tap strafing in apex (and movement in general) is like the creeper in Minecraft: an unintended bug that ended up being fun and iconic as a feature. I couldn't disagree more with what you said throughout the video. I'm a movement player because movement is intuitively fun not to win fights or because I feel forced to. I spend hours just doing movement in the firing range, not even practicing just enjoying how it feels. It's just cool af and a selling point for apex hence why they include it in their trailers now. You say it's inconsistent and clunky so it doesn't feel good for players on either side, but the opposite is true. Movement tech becomes less clunky and more consistent the more you practice, and that skill curve is fun to move up. Most movement tech can be trained to 100% consistency which gives players something to chase. Superglides are one exception but I think it's fine because that's what makes them flashy and cool, especially since it has a low-risk alternative in sliding out of the mantle. Using movement effectively is a learning curve like any other mechanic in the game. It motivates players to practice so they can hit more techs the same way they practice to hit more shots. Also, you and many others forget how fun it is to kill movement players. It's just less satisfying to kill an easy target with simple movement. Tracking moving players should be a welcome challenge to your aim. Of course there are movement gods out there who can only be one clipped by top aimers (or controller players), but if you get those players in your game that's a problem with matchmaking not movement. I also disagree with making movement an official feature. You say it would make it so all players would be able to access it, but really it would just turn new players away. We already have so many mechanics that are core yet not "official", with things like head glitching or sky nades. Making these things official would just bloat the game unnecessarily. For casuals who just want to try the basic gameplay, stuff like a tap strafe keybind or a superglide tutorial will either be ignored or make them intimidated by the complexity of the game. Whereas when you have those mechanics separate from the game, that same casual player can look up a guide when they are ready to dive into the nuances of the game, rather than be overwhelmed when they start out. For me the movement in Apex is it's best feature. The fact that it's mostly unintended actually makes me want it to be changed less. It's already a golden opportunity, you don't waste it simply because you didn't plan for it. I also don't have much faith in Respawn in general lately. A broken clock is right twice a day, and changing movement feels like adjusting the clock seconds before it's about to be right. My solution to movement seeming problematic would be to fix the clock. Fix the other issues with the game and movement gets the credit it deserves. Better matchmaking so you're going against movement players that challenge your aim but don't overwhelm it. Better servers so hitting techs feels less clunky and hitting shots on movement is more consistent. And better audio, so that when someone wallbounces over your head you still have a chance to react to the audio cue of them landing. It's what people are asking for anyway, and it's long overdue.

[@MegaloMan-d6l]

If the tech has been in the game for years and not being removed despite it being well known by the developer then it has become an intended mechanic.

[@Rymc]

So glad I sold my account and no longer play EA's moneygrab scam.

[@ender_z4nd3r83]

it's amoneygrab, but a scam? by definition it isn't one

[@3ildcard]

13:16 Regardless, i dont think Respawn should cater to "pros" or "movement community" anyways whether they like it or not, thats not even 1% of the playerbase. On the other hand, there are not that "many" movement players let alone ones close to Treeree/Movementless so i don't see it as a massive issue either. And even then, Treeree for example has all his skill points in movement which makes him very easy to kill as he can't deal much damage. There are people who THINK they're "movement" players but they really aren't. Overall 99% of players play the same NPC style so, not that big of a deal. And most wannabe "movement" dummies do a single wall bounce mid fight in worst possible time just to get 1 clipped in the air. I really don't think it is as big of an issue as you make it to be. Tap strafe had its use cases but considering majority of PC playerbase swapped to sticks, you can't "break their ankles" anyways as AA reacts for them rendering it useless, its just fun to do.

[@mrrw0lf]

if u want easy movement dont u want rotational aimassist for everybody aswell good aim is only accessible for the bestdo u need a super low reaction time isnt that inaccessible to some who havent grinded aiming excessively

[@MikeGrau0hr]

great point!

[@dirtydib]

This video is filled with awful takes and analysis compared to the usual expertise of your aiming content. This video makes a couple assumptions that are just inherently untrue, while using a very limited scope of mechanics and a lack of experience of games with great movement to analyze the enjoyability of game outcomes, here's a few takeaways. 1. Movement not being "intended" is not an inherently "bad" or "good" thing. Games like super smash bros melee, quake, team fortress 2, and more all have advanced movement techniques or unintended "exploits" that add an incredible amount of depth to the combat, movement, and skill ceiling of the game, without detracting from the casual experience as you claim it does. Melee has been around for more than 20 years and constantly has an influx of new players despite the almost absurd requirement of execution and "unintended" techniques you have to learn to be competent. Team Fortress 2 has an absurdly large casual appeal, with hundreds of servers filled with casual players who have never done a rocket jump before. plus plenty of depth for better players to absolutely roll an entire server of players, using advanced techniques like c-tapping, air strafing, surfing, trimping, etc. Movement being "intended" has no bearing on whether or not it is good for the game or not, and in an age of one button movement abilities like in overwatch and valorant, advanced movement techniques give you a way to express your skill and style whatever way you want. In games like overwatch and valorant, advanced "unintended" movement techniques give you a way to express your skill and style in a way you just simply can't in these new ultra polished games. 2. You cite verticality and over-reliance on ziplines as being a "problem", but you don't actually give any reasons why those are bad things other than it being "unintended". This is like if you were to watch a competitive 6v6 tf2 match and complain that everyone is over-relying on rocket jumping to get to high ground. It's very intuitive to me that even if you knew nothing about movement tech that you could get killed by someone like faide or aceu and easily determine, "Oh! they're grabbing and releasing the zip many times, instead of just grabbing it once", and then try to learn and get better next time. If the devs truly "intended" you to have no other option than to go slowly up a zipline and get one clipped, they would have simply not allowed you to regrab the zipline that fast, or not given you a boost. While mantle jumps are certainly less intended than the more regular, intuitive superjump and general zip movement that aceu does in your example at 4:00, mantle jumps are very niche, used by an absolute miniscule amount of players, and are very consistent and replicable to learn yourself. 3. Your analysis of movement tech ONLY being used to "alleviate certain problems within their gameplay experience" is just not true. If you have any history or knowledge of arena shooters or less restrictive game engines, there is a long history of using advanced movement "exploits" not to solve a specific problem, but simply because it's the optimal way to position/move yourself around the map. Nothing needs to be a "problem", good players will simply find the best way to do things. Another thing you seem to completely ignore is that people use these exploits because it's so satisfying to style on people and express yourself with them, not because it's advantageous in any way. If you load up r5 reloaded and play the best 1v1 players in the server, they're not doing absurd neostrafing or supergliding, even the MnK players. They're just shooting you and focusing on their aim, because in most situations, the movement exploits in apex are not even optimal! Top MnK Players like Zer0, Hiswattson, Madness, and Sweet are fully capable of learning how to do the most insane movement techniques in the game, but they almost never do these things in any pro setting because it's not as good as just strafing and trying to hit more shots than the other guy, even without AA. 4. Your take on how the high TTK effects the game is very accurate and well described, but you neglected to influence at all how the absurd visual clutter lowers the TTK drastically, or how much more unfair AA is with a higher TTK. The octane neostrafing around is made exponentially harder to hit due to the unclear models, lack of clear outlines (like overwatch), obnoxious muzzle flare, tracers, and the bright trail that octane Q leaves behind when he moves around. (Especially for MnK players who don't have aimbot to shoot through this crap for them.) 5. I think you are drastically overblowing how big of a problem this is, and I'm also baffled how many players you think there are in the game that are capable of executing movement like this. I have played apex for many years since season 0 and in all my time through taking breaks and going through low MMRs, to high level masters/pred lobbies, I've found probably 5x the number of players who are just straight up aimbotting than I've found movement GODS who can consistently pull this stuff off. Mind you this is all anecdotal obviously, but I challenge you to go to a top streamer like Hal or HisWattson and count how many times you even see a tapstrafe. Even if these movement exploits are really terrible and bad for the game like you say it is, how many players do you actually see that are even close to being able to do them? 6. You make the argument that it is inherently better for the game for the challenge in movement tech should be in it's creative uses, not execution. I think there's definitely some merit to this, and while I don't think you should need to be doing frame perfect inputs for everything, I also don't see why everyone "needs" to be able to do this movement tech with 0 effort, especially considering how boring it is when games implement this kind of thing. Think of a the sickest most exciting thing you could do on Pharah in overwatch, and then watch a SINGLE video of a high level soldier in tf2 hitting absolutely disgusting airshots and clean rocket jumps tell me with a straight face that easier accessible movement is always better. Look at EVO moment #37 and think of how lame it would be if EVERYONE could parry every hit of Chun-Li's super. There's a reason why overwatch is a corpse of a game in 2024 but team fortress 2 has more players than ever, there's a reason why people like playing SF: 3rd strike over SF6, there's a reason why melee is the most successful smash game and all the newer games have eventually died. They took away the execution requirements, and in doing so they took away the challenge, reward, and expression that give these games that SOUL that you just can't recreate. 7. It's clear from your content that you're a person who has spent hundreds of hours in aim trainers, studying mice grips, desk heights, etc, in order to aim better, even though you could just switch to controller. You clearly understand the satisfaction and reward that comes with truly mastering a skill and not taking any shortcuts, your aim is the result of nothing but hard work and dedication. But yet you can't understand that most of the reason advanced movement tech is satisfying is also BECAUSE it's hard. It's so much more satisfying to aim on MnK than on controller, the same way it's so much more satisfying to learn to rocket jump in TF2 than just pressing shift in overwatch. I get that you gotta keep things fresh and make new stuff as a content creator, but this video is deeply lacking the expertise that makes your aiming content so good. I don't want this criticism to boil down to me just telling you to "get good", but I would highly encourage you to study what makes movement in games successful and not successful, study the games that people say have the best movement, and generally gain a greater perspective of the role of skill based movement techniques by learning how to do them better in different games and learning what makes them fun to do and fun to play against. Considering the point we are in apex's life, and the current (much more important) issues of cheating, aim assist, and SBMM. This video comes off as incredibly unnecessary at best and all this narrative does is distract from the REAL problems plaguing the game in order to try to ruin the fun of those who are skilled movement players.

[@Ad4m-cooks]

Since when is skill gap a bad thing

[@ShaIlWeGaming]

I main r5 reloaded and the only movement that really needs to be touched is the momentum you get from a wall bounce its a little ridiculous some times

[@LunaTulpa]

is there a sizable player base on r5? ive always just known it as the meme gun maker or similar silly stuff, and would consider going over if the new bp changes feel bad enough

[@ShaIlWeGaming]

@@LunaTulpa there are always lobby's with at least 20 people peak hours you have 2 servers with 32 people in each very fun worth a shot

[@JohnSmith-zk3kd]

@@LunaTulpa Theres 1v1s and some movement maps nothing else really. Spam movement movement on r5 and your going to die on repeat

[@Phos7x]

What? When an enemy wallbounces in front of me i just one clip them. Its the most predictable pattern in the whole game because you cant tap strafe out of it after the initial bounce either. Basically everyone i know who play R5 say the same thing

[@ShaIlWeGaming]

@@Phos7x its not about the pattern of the wall bounce its what you can do after it with the momentum it gives you

[@TheShizzlemop]

there needs to be games based on highly technical movement, there are so many people who are movement players that just dont get their time to shine. you're 100% wrong on this bro, nearly every single movement shooter is good because of the unintended emergent mechanics that happen. they already nerfed core movement substantially after like season 2. i get that most people arent movement players, but let us have SOMETHING. there are hundreds of BRs out there, let us have one.

[@innovance3788]

Why are you trying to compress the skill gap between lower and higher skilled players when the lower skilled players don't have the necessary skill to take advantage of those changes against higher skilled opponents? A lower ttk may benefit a lower skilled player but only the higher skilled players have the skills to consistently take advantage of it, so the lower skilled player will still consistently feel at a disadvantage within engagements only now they are dying quicker. The reports from lower skilled players weren't a result of them failing to realise that they benefit from a faster ttk, but rather a consequence of devs failing to realise that making it easier for lower skilled players to kill higher skilled players also means it's way easier for higher skilled players to kill lower skilled players, and they are the group who has the skill to be more consistent with it. I used to to see it. in Destiny too, they'd make changes to help lower skilled players but it almost always ended up punishing the lower skilled players since thehigher skilled players are always better equipped to take advantage of those changes. While at the same time those changes often came at the cost of making the game feel and play worse. The solution is to encourage players to improve, and demonstrating that you won't punish them for investing that time and effort into their own improvement. This whole vid reeks of punishing players for making the effort to improve, so that those who put in no effort don't feel left out. And a mechanic being unintentional, doesn't mean it's not a natural progression or evolution of skill within the game! If you remove anything that is unintentional, just because it is unintentional, then you stunt the growth and progression of the game! Growth and progression isn't just about the devs intentions, but also about the evolution of the playerbase, their skills and playstyles. And if you overmanage those natural evolutions and progressions within the playerbase then you also risk punishing and destroying the intrinsic desire to explore and improve within that playerbase, through artificial ceiling and the deprecation of skill and tech! You are removing potentially aspirational goals that will keep players - some of whom need it- engaged in the game...

[@ender_z4nd3r83]

"A lower ttk may benefit a lower skilled player but only the higher skilled players have the skills to consistently take advantage of it, so the lower skilled player will still consistently feel at a disadvantage within engagements only now they are dying quicker. " but this will happen for anything, low ttk, only the players where best reaction time will take the most advantage from it, high ttk, same thing but with the best trackers, noobs are that, noobs, the only way to really help them is making the mechanics as dull as possible, that or noobs decide to spend the timeto learn mechanics, but that can't happen cause more noobs/casuals usually dont have as much time to play videogames or prefer spending most of their free time anywhere else

[@redexexile795]

they need to be no movement at all so it will be aim accuracy, position and strategy alone

[@lograth1327]

Go play any other br if you want this

[@ender_z4nd3r83]

why would you play anything other than csgo or valorant then? because they do that the best

[@SatchmoBronson]

Terrible, terrible take. It's *good* that not everyone knows how to do certain movement techniques. Not because they're gatekept (you can learn any of them from KZbin) but because they don't both to learn. The point is skill expression. If you don't know how to do it...learn! If you don't like it, don't play.

[@cheeemzy6651]

found the movement player

[@rhenanbanner]

why your videos dont have background music more?