Apple & Cheese Pie from 1553

[@darthplagueis13]

I mostly have two theories on this: 1: The recipe was meant to be made with either a very sweet cheese (for instance a ripe gouda which, granted, is a dutch cheese, but "german" was only a vague term in the 16th century and dutch even less so) or maybe some kind of cream cheese that's low in salt so that the apple flavour would not get overwhelmed but rather complemented by the cheese. 2: This was never meant to be a sweet dish but rather a savory one, specifically one from rhineland-palatinate, a region that is somewhat (in-)famous for putting apple in pretty much every last dish (presumably because they got a good climate for apples).

[@BusyBusyPanda]

I don't know man I grew up with a German grandma in rural Wisconsin who made an apple Dutch pie that was julienned apples with sliced xsharp cheddar cheese with brown sugar and oatmeal.

[@PeterSenft]

I also first thought that Quark would've been a better option, but I read the original recipe and it is very clear on the grating of the cheese (dan thiet daran soúil geriben kesß als epfel). So nothing creamy. There are also a bunch of other savory tarts in that book.

[@Ishtars_Star]

100% what i was thinking. plus, theres so many kinds of apples. not all apples are very sweet. some are, in fact, more towards the bitter depending on use. for hard cider, for table eating, for baking, etc. so many kinds of apples. i am wondering if this ancient pie was supposed to be savory with apples that are less sweet or hardly sweet at all. apples used for making hard cider are typically high in tannins, which makes them bitter. these are not normal apples we find in store, in fact most people dont know apples like that even exist. however, in the past they were more knowledgable of different varieties (of course, especially of ones that can be used to create alcohol). so, i am wondering if thats the kind of apples they used, and why these ones were cooked after being shredded, because cooking destroys some tannins in food therefore making those types of apples more palatable.

[@TorutheRedFox]

or cottage cheese

[@SignumImperativ]

@@Ishtars_Star There are a couple of traditional German dishes that use apples for savory dishes in the same way potatoes are used nowadays, so your theory that this pie was supposed to be savory definitely has some merit.

[@julievoit370]

You should do a whole show on “mock” recipes. There are tons. And serve mocktails. I hope you and Jose are having a fun honeymoon! Congratulations again.

[@weldonwin]

Some WW1 and 2 era rationing years recipes would be interesting and potentially really useful for people wanting to stretch their food budgets

[@heatherinparis]

What a good idea! I'd be interested in that as well

[@BrookieWookieBee]

I would be there for thaf.

[@jamesmachuta2010]

Thee is a tictoker who does old recipes, I think he already did mock apple pie

[@lenabreijer1311]

They did a few on the WWII farm series. Turnips were the base of some of them.

[@tigerann4941]

Historian here: The expression "easier than pie" referred to the ease in eating pie, not making it. Cheers!

[@giuseppelogiurato5718]

Aww, you beat me to it!

[@tremorsfan]

So why isn't anything easy as cake or a piece of pie?

[@OrNaurItsKat]

Okay but can you tell me who was out there skinning cats to the point where they heard someone say "there's more than one way to skin a cat" and they were like OMG YES

[@tremorsfan]

@Rae Carson somebody took their angry pills today.

[@DeinonychusCowboy]

Ironically I would not call pie the easiest thing to eat, if the filling doesn't come out, the crust will definitely crack and kinda fall apart by the time you get to the rim of it, and it's not finger food. Easy to convince yourself to eat, maybe, but like a streudel is basically a pie and much easier to eat in a practical sense.

[@pilotrtc]

Had you chosen a sharp cheese with the sweet apples the apple's sweetness would have come out stronger. I have a friend who cuts extra sharp cheddar into her homemade crust and granny smith apples in the filling. So yummy! (IMO) When I'm stuck with a piece of store bought apple pie, I'll melt a slab of extra sharp cheddar over it when I'm not in the mood for ice cream on top.

[@TheJollyKraut]

Absolutely. And while you won't find this type of pie anywhere in Germany today, traditional or "altdeutscher" (old German) apple pie is still often made with quark, or curd, to accentuate the sweetness of the apples.

[@kezkezooie8595]

I was just about to say something very similar when I saw you'd already commented. You need a lovely sharp cheddar cheese to go with your apple pie, made with Granny Smiths, of course - still the best cooking apple in my opinion! The contrast of sharp cheese and the sweetness of the apple is what makes the flavour pop. I love fresh apples with sharp cheddar too - in fact, any number of fruits go really well with a good sharp cheese.

[@rejoyce318]

@@kezkezooie8595 I was raised on apple pies made with winesap apples and served with cheddar cheese, especially for my dad's birthday. Winesaps are almost as tart as Granny Smiths. As a child, I complained (yellow delicious was my fave), but now I'd love to find a good winesap.

[@stickychocolate8155]

"...When I'm not in the mood for ice cream..." Sorry, I don't understand.

[@pilotrtc]

@@stickychocolate8155 LOL! I will admit it's rarely!

[@Kniero]

Fun fact! The plushie behind him is a Pokemon called Applin! It is a play on "worm in apple" but instead of a worm it's a "wyrm"!

[@KelseyDrummer]

Thank you! I was wondering which one it was. I thought it was Mr. Krabbs and was like that makes no sense...

[@_Fizel_]

@@KelseyDrummer OH I can't unsee it now! Applin really do be looking like Mr Krabbs.

[@obiwancannoli1920]

It's also a dragon!

[@jimsutter2748]

@@KelseyDrummer I thought it was a Mr. Crabapple!

[@KelseyDrummer]

@@_Fizel_ My bad lol!

[@Lauren.E.O]

“This dough is easy to work with” …You underestimate my power. If the crust I’m working with can turn out weird, it 100% will.

[@PooNinja]

Baking is magic 😖

[@u_u4640]

work fast and remember - the dough doesn't have to be homogeneous. the baking will melt the butter, that's when everything will come together.

[@frocat5163]

Right? I've tried many, many times to make various pastry doughs (pies, tarts, etc.) and they always give me fits.

[@roberthunter5059]

I made a pie. Made the crust and it was perfect and flaky. Made the same pie the next week and the crust was hard and crunchy. I thought that I made them the same way. It's crazy.

[@u_u4640]

@@roberthunter5059 hard crust means gluten has formed. try mixing two parts flour with one part starch to reduce the gluten content.

[@Danny.._]

have you read "the man who ate everything" by jeffrey steingarten? he has a chapter in it where he decided to only cook from recipes from the back of the box, and one was mock apple pie from a ritz cracker box. he was surprised that it tasted so similar and came to the conclusion that a typical apple pie has so much sugar and cinnamon in it that you basically lose the flavor of the apples completely. later in the book he provides a recipe for apple pie with no cinnamon that highlights the flavor of the apples instead of smothering it. if you haven't read his book i highly recommend it (and its sequel, "it must have been something i ate") to any food-lover, chef, diy-er, or mad scientist.

[@NecromancyForKids]

Pretty much what happens with pumpkin pie

[@lenabreijer1311]

@@NecromancyForKids which is good because pumpkin is revolting, the only thing that saves that pie is a lot of gingerbread spices.

[@fighttheevilrobots3417]

I honestly think I would like a cinnamon pie better than an apple pie. The texture of baked apples freaks me out.

[@fionaclaphamhoward5876]

@@lenabreijer1311 In New Zealand where I'm from we eat pumpkin as a savoury dish. Roasted, or made into soups, in curries, etc. It's delicious like that! And likewise for my Bulgarian in-laws where roasted pumpkin (tikva - тиква) is a thing too.

[@ikocheratcr]

The fact the sugar and cinnamon hide the apple flavor is exploited in the chayote (Sechium edule) apple recipes. It tastes great BTW, and many people do not feel the difference. The texture is basically the same.

[@Vexxa_]

"There are too many pokemon" people say. I say "no! There are as many needs to be so there can be the perfect one for tasting history decor"

[@leademi1387]

NEVER TOO MANY POKÉMON! Plus that’s Jose’s contribution.

[@SciFiFemale]

Daughter and I love to try and guess which Pokemon will be displayed, just from the title. Got it right this time.

[@josephwade8593]

Wait that isn't Mr Krabs

[@lyra2112]

Who is the plushie?! 🤔

[@dscrye]

@@lyra2112 It's an Applin- the Apple Core Pokemon, which evolves into Flapple- the Apple Wing Pokemon. Both are Grass/Dragon type in SwSh.

[@macdjord]

Important note when making mock apple pie: don't stir! The soggy-but-intact biscuits are supposed to replicate the texture of the cooked apple slices; if you break them up by stirring, they just turn into mush.

[@greendorkfish]

Also use apple cider vinegar, at least that's what my grandma used

[@seraphale]

Aha!

[@stacym735]

I remember my Mom making the Ritz version of mock apple pie a few times when I was a kid and I thought it was good. What I don't remember is how close it was to actual apple pie; my family just liked it on its own merits.

[@kellikelli4413]

Reminds me of Apple Pan Dowdy, some call it Apple Crisp (w/oatmeal dropped by the spoonful into the apple/spice mixture, then bake).

[@mysterylovescompany2657]

"Pie is...the secret of our strength as a nation-" Dean Winchester approves this message.

[@rachzen]

❤

[@KatieCatWalker]

Carry on my wayward child.

[@RJH_LIL]

Congratulations to you and Jose again.

[@controlledchaos8851]

Hell yea , Congrats 🍾

[@shinuizabusa2180]

Big congrats

[@deejmalik]

Alhamdullilah massive congratulations!

[@thewolfstu]

"Is like a kiss with out the squeeze" Oh, You saucy historical dog. lol

[@stevencooper4422]

LOL this guy

[@yalta5060]

LOL

[@AnnabelSmyth]

An accurate quote - from Yorkshire or Gloucestershire, I believe, in the UK (not quite sure which - probably Gloucestershire, because of the eponymous cheese).

[@captainl-ron4068]

@@AnnabelSmyth if you tried to say that rhyme in a Yorkshire accent you’d likely choke.

[@AnnabelSmyth]

@@captainl-ron4068 I fail to see why!

[@jackoftrades80home]

My sister makes Apple pies with Gruyère cheese in the crust. She got the idea from an old episode of Pushing Daisies. Lovely show about a pie maker who can raise the dead.

[@ohrats731]

I haven’t thought about that show in years! That was a cute show

[@auntlynnie]

That sounds amazing.

[@sarahdaestrela6098]

My friends and I made a pear and gruyere pie based on that show! It was great considering our inexperience in pie baking

[@PhantomStella]

Loved that show!

[@Zippythewondersquirrel]

Lee Pace was Ned the Pie Man, it was great.

[@caffeinedelusions]

For those troubled at the lack of a written recipe, I've had occasion to document Max's process as I'll be making this pie for Thanksgiving this year. APPLE AND CHEESE PIE (1553) INGREDIENTS - 5 sweet (not tart) apples - 3 cups grated hard mild cheese (Emmentaler preferred) - 2 eggs - 1/8th teaspoon ground clove - 3/4th teaspoon ground ginger - 1 teaspoon cinnamon - 3 tablespoons butter or lard - 1/4th teaspoon salt - 2 cups flour - 2 egg yolks - 6 tablespoons butter - pinch of saffron, soaked in a tablespoon of water - 1/4th cup of water METHOD 1. Work the 6 tablespoons of butter into the flour with fingers in a large mixing bowl, then add 2 egg yolks and the saffron and its soaking water and work that in as well. Slowly add the water a bit at a time while working the dough until it comes together. You may not need the entire quarter cup. Cover the dough and let it rest for 30 minutes. 2. Once rested, turn the dough out onto a flat floured surface, and roll it out. Once well spread to an appropriate size, line a pie or tart plate with it, trim and crimp the edges, and blind-bake it. Put a layer of aluminum foil into the crust, fill it with pie weights such as dried beans, and bake at 450 for 15 minutes. Remove it, evacuate the foil and pie weights, and bake it for another 5 minutes to make sure it’s dry. Let it cool on a rack. 3. Peel your apples, and grate them down to their cores (try not to get any seeds or stems in the mix. Set a pan over medium heat, melt your 3 tablespoons butter or lard completely therein, and add your grated apples directly to the pan. Fry the apples for about 5 minutes, stirring constantly, to drive off water, incorporate fat, and activate aromatics. 4. Remove the apples from the heat and transfer them to a mixing bowl. While still hot, add the grated cheese, clove, ginger, cinnamon, and 2 eggs. Mix thoroughly until incorporated, with the cheese melting to serve as a binder. 5. Spoon the mixture into the crust and smooth out the top, then bake at 350 for 45-50 minutes. Check the crust regularly during baking, and if it darkens at the edges, shield it with aluminum foil. 6. Pie is ready when the center is no longer liquidy but retains a slight wobble. At that point, remove it from the oven and let it cool completely.

[@waxwingsfall]

This is awesome dude

[@gayghostprince]

thank you!

[@QueenBoadicea]

What size pie dish are you supposed to use? What about that 1/4 teaspoon of salt? The video doesn't mention when to use it. Does it go in the crust or the filling?

[@MossyMozart]

@caffeinedelusions - How did your pie effort turn out?

[@saintsaens21]

Thanks friend.

[@emmalyart]

The way you said "Appeltaarten" made my Dutch hart melt. It sounds so sweet! Keep up the good work, it's always a joy to see a new video of yours pop up in my notifications :D

[@Boom12]

Apple and cheese pie. I've got a feeling Pizza Hut or Dominos are taking notes of this video.

[@YYZed]

It's still a thing in new England. Hot apple pie with a slice of cheddar. 🤷‍♂️

[@htmmt-podcast]

@@YYZed Midwest too. Tons of people eat cheddar on their apple pie

[@SgtValentine8448]

As someone who works for the Hut. We already have Apple Pies.

[@The_Practical_Daydreamer]

You can just ask for the dreaded pineapple.

[@MonochromeTrouble]

I could see Domino's Japan doing something with this.

[@pabackwoods5330]

My grandmother would make a mock apple pie when they didn’t have fresh apples on hand on the farm. Instead they would substitute slices of Zucchini.

[@buttholethebarbarian8248]

Sounds bomb, would eggplant or squash work?

[@kristinejohanek]

Hey - I am STILL harvesting zucchini in October. I should try that recipe idea, since I already make a zucchini and apple salad (with sliced onions and raspberry vinaigrette dressing) for my lunches. Waste not, want not.

[@spitcloth]

Perfect timing, 'do yt in a cofyn' is already one of my goals this month.

[@cbiancardi9233]

We always had a slice of sharp cheddar with our apple pie. We also made mock apple pie but it was with zucchini. You would peel the zucchini, slice it and then cook it in lemon juice, sugar and cinnamon. Then put the slices in a pie crust, dot with butter and bake it. It really tasted like apple pie and it was a way to use up all of the zucchini in my moms garden.

[@sawtootheyes523]

My german grandmother made this, but she also added chopped onion to the apples while frying! Apples and onions are very good together, and are a staple in a lot of german recipes. My whole family enjoys this more than most modern pies!

[@jessebeaver4677]

When you said, "A little intense. Crazy even." about that 1902 article, with pie being the symbol of an undying nation. Dude I had to pause because I was laughing so hard. God, I love this channel.

[@Burlandivy]

There is a "mock apple" pie mentioned in Laura Ingalls Wilder's books as being a pie made of unripe or "green" pumpkin along with vinegar and the usual sugar and spices.

[@dmckim3174]

The fact that he went to the effort to make videos ahead of time so we could have new videos while Max are on Jose are on their honeymoon is next level. Thanks Max for being so consistent and dedicated to high quality. Lately it has seemed like there is just a little more of the history content, I could not support this more. You could make 45 minute videos, I for one would love it.

[@mollyscozykitchen4693]

Max, I noticed that you use a lot of saffron in your recipes. It seems to be quite common in older recipes, which means it used to be much cheaper. Could you do an episode on the history of saffron, particularly its change from ordinary spice to 14 bucks an ounce? I'd really love to see that!

[@sandrabergquist1684]

Yes, I noticed the same thing. Saffron is very expensive nowadays.

[@MonaLisaHasNoEyebrows]

The big difference is that other spices got cheaper due to industrialized farming but due to the nature of harvesting saffron (gently removing a delicate part of the flower that is only good for a few hours and blooms a few times per year) it can’t be. The real story is why all our spices aren’t as expensive as modern saffron.

[@AnniCarlsson]

It grew in peoples backyards more or less

[@ExpandDong420]

A lot of historical cook books are aimed at the rich, more peasant friendly recipes have no room for such extravagance I'm sure

[@Fiddy.]

He also mostly bakes things richer people would eat

[@jennypaxton8159]

I’m a historian, and my mom did the same: compelled me to keep a journal of our family trip to Washington DC when I was nine! Maybe it helps baby historians in potentia develop a love for primary sources!

[@skuripandaburns3489]

Perhaps, and I say this as an European who eats apple strudel often, the "cheese" in this recipe isn't a full blown ripe cheese like the ementhaler, but cottage cheese, aka the basis of all cheeses. We put cottage cheese in many similar recipes, including apple strudel, and it complements the apples better than ripened cheese would.

[@mellie4174]

Oooh good point!

[@chezmoi42]

Yes, I was thinking of cheese danish, which uses cream cheese, but any fresh cheese like cottage cheese would do admirably - maybe whizzed in a blender or pushed through a strainer if you want the smoother texture.

[@bustedkeaton]

But the instructions say to grate the cheese.

[@fabe61]

You cannot grate cottage cheese though. I think it was simply just a savoury dish that Max misunderstood at first and thus tried to make sweeter

[@SomePotato]

@@bustedkeaton I wouldn't put too much trust into a random cookbook translation from Early New High German to English. I'm a native German speaker and I wouldn't claim to be able to fluently read the original.

[@bhaalspawn34]

Here in the UK, we use "cooking" apples for apple pie, I think they are similar to "Bramley" apples (or are "Bramley" simply a variety of cooking apple?) I was always told you can't use an eating apple for pie because they disintegrate and are too sweet. Either way, they are tart and hard, which would be ideal for this recipe. Lots of people talking about the cheese used, but I think it's the variety of apple that probably makes the difference.

[@gmaureen]

In the US we often use the "Granny Smith" apple a tart, firm, but juicy apple...my fav. Sounds similar to what you use over there.

[@ganesha99999]

@@gmaureen Nowhere close. Granny Smiths are readily available in UK as eaters, but you wouldn't want to eat a Bramley. I've lived in Canada for nearly a decade now, and I know of no substitute for the extremely tart but very highly flavoured Bramley. It's one of the Things I Miss.

[@mirabellegoldapfel6256]

@@ganesha99999 Agree. Only the hardiest of lemon juice drinkers like to eat this kind of cooking apple. I'd recommend maybe farmers markets or asking people with gardens, because most of these tart apples can be stored rather long and though have been planted decades ago to make cakes and applesauce even in february.

[@asmodiusjones9563]

In the US it is actually pretty hard to get different varieties of apples. There are maybe four varieties in the grocery store, and if you want anything else you’ve got to find it in an old tree somewhere. A farmers market may also have them.

[@Xerxes2005]

@@gmaureen I'm from Quebec and we use red apples like Cortland or McIntosh, or at least my mother does. Cortlands hold their shape better while baking though, and are sweeter than McIntosh, which are a little tart (though not as much as Granny Smith).

[@emceebois]

Saying "let's have a taste" instead of "let's give it a shot?" Hawaii changed you, Max Miller. It changed you for real.

[@wu1ming9shi]

I just love how most things in the medieval age to get cooked is like "Hmm, how do I prepare this? Let's just MASH the crud out of it and then bake it in dough!". xD

[@MrAranton]

In the medieval foods were place on hot-cold, dry-wet matrix. That matrix is used in the pathology of humours which was the leading medical theory at the time. According to that theory the humours (blood, phlegm, yellow and black bile) needed to balanced, and how the foods one ate were balanced on the hot-cold, dry-wet matrix supposedly affected the balance of the humours. Apples (along with most other fruits and veggies) were considered extremely cold and wet, something to be used as medicine for whose humours were extremely out of whack, but not something healthy people should eat, unless the cold wetness was somehow balanced out. Some customs that persist until this day go back to this. Vinegar (being considered warm) balances out the coldness of lettuce. "Mash the crud out of it to then bake it was considered a way to turn a food warmer and the dough was supposed to balance the moisture level by making dry things wetter and wet things dryer.

[@wu1ming9shi]

@@MrAranton That is interesting indeed. I didn't know food was prepared this way as well. I thought the humors were mostly a medical thing. So this pie was not meant to be eaten by healthy people then?

[@MrAranton]

@@wu1ming9shi According to the theory Baking would have counteracted both the coldness of the apples and the wetness. Baking adds heat and (unlike boiling or frying) removes wetness. So eating apples in this form would be safer and healthier than eating them raw. But there are the other ingredients to consider, I'm not sure where cheese sits in the matrix (might depend on the kind of cheese, too), but I guess the entire recipe wouldn't look that bad to a humoral pathologist. But there are also characteristics of the person to consider, foods that are "healthy" to sanguine person are unhealthy for a phlegmatic person and vice-versa, which adds another layer of complexity to the matter. Also: I'm by no means an expert on the topic; I understand the fundamentals of the concept and can recall some bits and pieces of the details. As far as I know in their mind perfect balance was impossible to achieve in a single dish, so it would have been about being balanced over the course of a day. There would be a recommendation what other things to eat over the day.

[@wu1ming9shi]

@@MrAranton Still very interesting and explains alot.

[@seileach67]

@@MrAranton I've read that Chinese traditional medicine is the same way about grouping foods into hot/yang and cold/yin and eating certain foods to counteract various illnesses and conditions.

[@fireknight013]

My favorite part of this episode was your personal story about the Rose Oil. LOL, great story. Love seeing humility in excellence.

[@lauraevans2104]

My uncle put's a slice of cheddar cheese under the top crust of his apple pie. It adds the savor but not as intense as Max is describing. It's still sweet and warm and cozy tasting, with just a little bit more. Congratulations to you and Jose!

[@hestiathena4917]

My dad does similar, though he just has the cheese on the side. I've read that might be an East Coast thing, though he grew up in Oregon, so I dunno. I remember a few instances of him asking for apple pie with a slice of cheddar on the side at various restaurants (this is in California) and the servers looking at him like he was from Mars. One place just melted the cheese on top.

[@lauraevans2104]

@@hestiathena4917 yeah we’re in Oregon so maybe it traveled?

[@nicolemillner2128]

Ditto in the Midwest (at least Minnesota and Wisconsin). All hail a bit of shredded cheddar in with the apples!

[@justthinking526]

Grew up in NH. A slice of sharp cheddar was served along with homemade apple pie. And it wasn't called cheddar, but " rat cheese", sliced from the wheel.

[@ruthherring5684]

It’s also good putting a slice of cheese under the top crust of a Christmas minced pie. It somehow cuts through the intense sweetness of the pie.

[@emery6871]

The husband of one of my mom's friends is actually allergic to apples, and they've always made their own mock apple pie with zucchini. And it is delicious. It tastes exactly like apple pie and the texture is perfect too. It's a great thing to do with those big, bland zucchinis that you pick too late in the season. And my mom always enjoys it with some sharp cheddar cheese on the side.

[@kevinbyrne4538]

Thank you for posting this suggestion. I'm one of those people who annually receives those HUGE zucchinis from acquaintances who garden. Now I finally know what to do with them.

[@alicemorrison1518]

I planted too many last year and started dressing the giant zucchini up in thriftstore baby clothes to leave on neighbor's porches... next year, PIES!!!

[@cazadoo339]

Do you have a recipe ?

[@Not_a_number_]

How do you get the apple taste without apple?

[@kevinbyrne4538]

@@cazadoo339 -- Just type "mock apple pie zucchini" into your favorite search engine and you'll find several recipes.

[@baileyloudon8110]

It's funny, when I read the title, I thought "that sounds gross" but then I remembered that eating bread, apple and cheese (which this essentially is) for lunch is very common where I live and is maybe my favourite food haha

[@elefantefresa1059]

Elefante Fresa

[@baileyloudon8110]

@@elefantefresa1059 Elefante Fresa

[@dr.vikyll7466]

@@elefantefresa1059 Elefante Fresa

[@carrydedier9952]

@@elefantefresa1059 Elefante Fresa

[@lenabreijer1311]

There was a restaurant I used to go to in Vancouver that had croissants with camembert and apple slices. It was delicious. It went well with their coffee with chocolate and whipped cream.

[@imari2305]

The first time I ever had apple pie with cheese was many years ago at the hospital I used to work for. It was the wierdest thing ever! A slice of apple pie with a slice of cheddar cheese and I was blown away! It really was delicious so yes I can see this "pie" being made but the sugar would definitely be needed. Congrats again on your wedding 😃

[@catherinecrawford2289]

Max, you just got me through a bout of Covid. I watched you almost exclusively for 10 days of quarantine! Thank you thank you thank you, you are the best!

[@apuapustaja1958]

You need very SOUR Apples when you add cheese. The Cheese counters the sour taste and it makes sense because we didnt have great harvests and selective breeding like we do today.

[@Hempujonsito]

based country apu

[@anneangstadt1882]

Makes sense, when evaluating old recipies we always have to remember ingredients sometimes where not what we have today. I don't think this pie was meant to be sweet, using spices in savory dishes was common before modern times.

[@melodicseaweed387]

Like Boskoop apples

[@varlotto]

Thought you'd talk about cheddar on modern apple pie, my grandma loved it and it rubbed off on me, but still love the History and the crust looked incredible. Congrats on getting married too!

[@BlackJesus8463]

Fruit and cheese go well together even better than fruit and yogurt!

[@toBe8ere]

That could be a modern descendant of the various apple cheese pies since quite a few people in the Midwest, South and East Coast have German heritage.

[@archangel1547]

I guess because I’ve seen Max with a beard for so long, that when I go back and watch his first few vids I’m like “baby face Max, he was so young then!” It’s been like two years 😆 congrats to the two grooms!

[@jorenbosmans8065]

Yeah, our favorite historian has grown up so fast.

[@anti-ethniccleansing465]

Lol “grooms.”

[@BTScriviner]

I think he also wore very blue contacts.

[@bwackbeedows3629]

@@anti-ethniccleansing465 *Groomen

[@anti-ethniccleansing465]

@@bwackbeedows3629 You mean they were prolly groomed as kids lmfao.

[@MossyMozart]

When I was a little child in Colorado Springs, Colorado, my mother used to take me to a tea shop that served their apple pie slices warm with a slice of cheddar cheese softening on the top. I loved it!

[@kajpagan]

I’ve always eaten apple pie with a slice of cheese melted over the top. My mother and grandmother introduced me to the combo. Must be a cultural remnant of this recipe.

[@thomasberfield5]

I too have had it this way and it is absolutely delicious

[@_ohtheirony]

Apparently, eating cheese with apple pie is still a “thing” in many regions of the USA. I was very surprised and often wondered how it ever came about, so it’s a pleasure learning the history. I have a few Southern friends and friends from New Mexico who eat cheddar cheese and apple pie. 😵 lol

[@_ohtheirony]

@BR549 So cool! I guess I didn’t mean to limit it to the USA, as I’m sure many others pair these together. I’ve yet to try though!

[@VideoMask93]

My mother is from Pennsylvania of Irish descent and introduced me to cheese with apple pie.

[@_ohtheirony]

@@VideoMask93 Now I’m really wanting to try this combo! Do you eat sliced cheese on top or do you bake it with the filling?

[@daniellem1838]

Yes. I was raised in New York and had never heard of this until I drove cross country and a waitress asked if I would like to have cheddar cheese with my apple pie. I was so confused and asked her to repeat herself.

[@_ohtheirony]

@@daniellem1838 Definitely a culture shock! I would have been surprised too. But man I’m so intrigued and want to try it someday.

[@Lauren.E.O]

I remember going to France back in high school. I basically just took pictures of the desserts, so I don’t judge a food travel journal at all.

[@isabellabihy8631]

Sabina Welserin was a well-to-do woman. Notice that her last name has "in" attached, which is a common practice in the southern part of Germany, the men in the family were named Welser, the females have "in" at the end. Sabina learned many recipes from her mother-in-law, Philippine Welser. Sabina always gave her own touch to the recipes. The book I'm referencing while writing this, a compilation of various renaissance recipes, has a recipe for a "sweet cheese torte" made from a mild hard cheese by Philippine Welser. Maybe Sabina didn't have enough cheese in the pantry and grated some apples to make up for the lack. Max, your pronounciation of the title of the cookbook was excellent!

[@bazzatheblue]

Why was Sabina's mother in law a 'Welser,' and not a 'Welserin'?

[@90littlebeagle]

@@bazzatheblue She probably was for most people: It's the difference between southern dialect (where we add the feminine ending to the family name) and standard German (where we don't). 😉

[@elvieann4949]

An orchard that I buy pies from makes a delicious apple and cheddar pie. It isn't savory, although it isn't as sweet as most pies either, which is why I love it.

[@thefreeman027]

On a bit of a morbid historical note; the Plainfield Ghoul, Ed Gein, requested “Apple Pie with a slice of cheddar cheese on top” while being interrogated by police after his arrest. Happy Halloween, y’all.

[@KelseyDrummer]

Oh Ed...

[@dragonwitch27]

Serious question: do you create an episode and then pick a pokemon or do you pick a pokemon and then create an episode? You seem to have one for every episode you do!

[@homieshq69]

This is the biggest question Ive had since starting

[@thatguy3254]

I too am interested in this answer

[@cvc99]

I can't be sure but i believe its the pokémon which is chosen for every episode and not the other way around. José, Max's husband, is a huge pokémon fan and it is him who chooses them. He's a big fan so I wouldn't be surprised if he had a huge collection of those plushies and just had to go and pick one.

[@zorgon60]

I made a mock apple pie once and to be honest, it tasted just like an apple pie. It was crazy. My family still talks about that pie. Hope to see that in the future.

[@TakeWalker]

Same. Also those apple dishes with the goofy names, apple slump and so forth. :D

[@Rebecca_English]

Mock apple pie?! I'm going to have to find out more about this. I love apples, but I'm allergic.

[@zorgon60]

@@Rebecca_English from what I remember my mom telling me, that is why it was designed. We used the Ritz crackers recipe.

[@kirbyculp3449]

I suppose that depends on finding an ancient box of Ritz crackers. Maybe Max can collab with MRESteve.

[@inmydarkesthour2278]

@@zorgon60 I believe it was more as it was cheaper than fresh apples...that's why it's a depression food

[@arose2586]

definitely willing to try something like this, especially already knowing that apples + cheese can work well together. in fact we just had brie and apple grilled cheese yesterday! With just a little bit of apple butter, too.

[@adedow1333]

Oh yum!

[@nottheguru]

I was just about to suggest an apple and brie pie!

[@jr-bh5rm]

my favorite pizza is cheesepizza with apple slices. so i might try that apple pie.

[@mwater_moon2865]

There's a pizza place near where I used to live that made an apple butter bacon pizza, they use apple butter for sauce and cheese and bacon as toppings, when they have "Taste of Downtown," it is ALWAYS the one that sells fastest, they told me once that for that they make almost half their pizza pies apple butter bacon.

[@laciewall6170]

Thanks for the great idea!

[@Burning_Dwarf]

Dutch opinion here; A hard tart apple is recommended, an Elstar, a Brambly or a Jonagold ALSO IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SOFT CHEESE, like Riccotta or Mascrapone, Neufchâtel... Or even Quark or Greek Yogurt (uhm edit; for a sweet result that is) I dont eat dairy, esp hate cheese so i use a bit of juice or coconutmilk with agar agar For the texture and stability

[@juleemiller2754]

Max Miller, You are awesome. I'm glad you found this medium and stuck with it. You shine a welcome light on interesting and obscure foodstuffs, make history fun, and delight your audience with your convivial demeanor and current references. Serve It Forth indeed. You are constantly making my day.

[@BrookieWookieBee]

For a moment I thought you were making Kasekuchen which is a German pie with cheese and apple. We use cottage cheese or homemade farmers cheese to make it. Then the apples are baked on top of it. It is kind of like a cheesecake. The crust is closer to puff pastry though. Every German family has their own recipe they claim is the best. I will try your recipe. Last year's Pumpion Pie was a hit with my family.

[@SomePotato]

You can even make Käsekuchen with any other fruit, or even without fruit. So many possibilities!

[@BrookieWookieBee]

@@SomePotato oh yeah it has been made with pears, prunes, peaches, just cinnamon and sugar on top (that's for weddings) I like it with appricots and then glazed with apricot jam. Whatever fruit you have on hand.

[@nancymontgomery8897]

That sounds delicious :)

[@bragny]

I actually never had Käsekuchen with apples before and have never seen it sold anywhere with apples either. It seems to always either be without fruit altogether or with tangerines.

[@neongrau]

Same thought for me. As a German, if i read that recipe i wouldn’t even remotely thought of using an aged cheese like Emmentaler. This can only be meant some sort of cheesecake. Max, please try this again!

[@troypayne6701]

This reminds me of my grandparents. Grandpa always kept orchards on his land and we ate apples everyday almost. He grafted different species of apples onto one tree so that one tree would produce three or four different kinds. People do this now. Whenever you buy a dwarf apple tree, its really just a small crabapple tree with Apple limbs grafted onto it.

[@lisakilmer2667]

Emmentaler sounds like a perfect choice - it's described as sweet, nutty and slightly fruity. As basically an apple quiche, I may try it with a pinch of thyme or even rosemary. We've got a bushel of apples to use up. Thanks for another good episode!

[@BigBewm]

I always thought the saying "As American as apple pie" relates more to how/when apple pies are eaten and less of where they originated from. Apple pies are a common place during American holidays like Thanksgiving and 4th of July. They also can always be found at your typical American roadside diners, which were very prominent in the early 1900s when the term was probably coined.

[@lucehleblanc]

I genuinely think thats how most use the phrase today.

[@seraphale]

I hope you pointed out to your mother that documenting your food has served you very well! And what a cute story! I love it when interests last a lifetime. Great episode!

[@Koboldmensch]

I come from approximatly where this woman lived- and to this day we eat Kässpätzle (a rough egg pasta with cheese baked in the oven) with apple sauce. Doesn't stike me as too weird to just bake the apples with the cheese :D

[@Tbehartoo]

I've learned somewhere that the whole saying was "As easy as eating apple pie" so that makes the saying much more in tune with being easy because I've yet to have pie making turn out easier than eating the result. Hope you're having a wonderful honeymoon.

[@dianaash8077]

That makes so much more sense to me 'cause crust is hard!

[@Goldenkitten1]

@@kichi4682 Aw hell yeah, I need me some computer STDs along with my real ones!

[@vincentbismonte3497]

Oh my god that "boy" in the thumbnail surprised me, thanks for the nightmare fuel max!

[@siaking99]

Thanks for being a genuine wholesome KZbinr. Love watching you when I'm down. You always pick me up!

[@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug]

9:15 completely agree, food is the number one experience with traveling, so if you log anything it makes sense to log your culinary adventures

[@BusyBusyPanda]

I'm from a small town in rural Wisconsin. We had a mostly Germanic population of 3,000 & 3 cheese factories 1 for each corner of town. The phrase "an apple pie without the cheese is like a hug without the squeeze" was literally on a sign outside of the second factory. The factories are numbered in order by what year they were established. Edit: also as a kid I loathed Apple pie. My gramma made one which was more of a Dutch apple bake that had shredded cheese inside of it so I was completely unaware that apple pies existed in a world without cheese. And I think apple pie and cheese together is definitely not a squeeze.

[@eberhardpfeifer1620]

take curd instead of emmentaler

[@allenellisdewitt]

Max, the best mock apple pie I've ever made used ritz crackers (mimicked the slices of apples) along with cream of tar tar. You're more than smart enough to find a recipie; probably an old one directly from Ritz. It's shockingly similar to a real apple pie.

[@SugarcatPlays]

I don't know why but between my love of history and food you're quickly becoming my go-to channel on KZbin. Congrats on the wedding btw!

[@matthewcarey5842]

Love this channel, it brings old recipes and flavours back to the modern age again.

[@jonijoni1145]

The kindergarten class in the school where I taught used to take English muffin halves, spread with butter, layered with an apple slice, brown sugar, cinnamon, covered with grated chedder and bake until bubbling. The kids loved them!! Such a great snack, based upon old recipes like this!

[@evilarchconservative2952]

Sounds YUMMY! 🐻‍❄️🍭

[@finnhe6020]

Quite an interesting recipe, though I’m not sure about the crust. In the original text she says “wie zú ainem Fladen”. This probably did not mean the brithis-like pie crust, especially since pie crusts weren’t that wide-spread in medieval Germany. I’d tend more towards a real Fladen, like a dry Crêpe-ish type of crust. An example for this can be found in the very same cookbook: Ain fladen zú machen Nim ain ormilch, die woll aúßgesechnet seý, schlag wider air darein vnnd weinberlen, schlags aúff den boden, lasß sittig bachen.“

[@baumgrt]

The recipe you mentioned seems to be more like a pie filling (eggs, milk and raisins would make sense) rather than for a pie crust. I also looked at a few of the other pie recipes and I rarely saw the crust even mentioned at all, as if it was extremely well-known. After some more search, you will find that the recipe for a plum pie (page 70) also includes a crust recipe: „laß bachen den taig zu der torten, hept man also an, man nimpt 2 air vnnd erklopffts, darnach riert ain mel daran, bis es dich wirt, schit jn darnach aúff den disch vnnd arbait jn woll, bis er recht wirt“ To me, this seems more similar to a sheet of freshly made egg pasta. After explaining how to fill the pie crust, she also wrote: „also macht man all tortentaig“, which I would take to imply that this is her default pie crust recipe.

[@SomePotato]

I couldn't find an apple and cheese pie recipe in the original German book. Could you point me to the headline it was under?

[@finnhe6020]

I think it’s recipe 177

[@SomePotato]

@@finnhe6020 Thank you!

[@TheScarvig]

@@baumgrt to me recipes 61 and 70 seem to be the ones that include the reference doughs for savory and sweet pies/tartes

[@wompa70]

We always use a couple different kinds of apples. That way each bite is a surprise; sometimes tart, sometimes sweet.

[@noahgeerdink5144]

“As American as an apple pie” is quite accurate. Just means that it isn’t that American, just a remix from Europe

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Agreed.

[@alexnope2223]

That doesn't make sense

[@morgoth2913]

No humans are native to America so I guess it makes sense

[@TheTofuGod]

Lol @ American colonialism justification

[@noahgeerdink5144]

@@morgoth2913 that’s just not true.

[@BMonger]

I love watching Max… he smiles when he talks!

[@peachprincess8486]

The style with which Max narrates is so good!! And the pie looks so good! ✨✨

[@Anesthesia069]

We have a lot of apple pie in England, too. With custard, of course! I am going to speak up for crab apples here - they are fantastic for jams and jellies. Crab apple jam is delicious and I also made crab apple and rosehip jam this autumn. No need for jam sugar!

[@deereating9267]

Oh the memories! Cheddar cheese , the sharper the better, was a regular feature in apple pies when I was growing up, especially in apple crumbles! Apples can make a good sub for potatoes in savory dishes and we love them fried in butter with onions as a side dish (no sugar). Yum!

[@pwnedyouwithpurple]

I love apple pie with cheese on the side. This just feels like the ultimate evolution of that, lol.

[@adedow1333]

No kidding! Despite what Max says, I'm tempted to try it with sharp cheddar (my favorite with pie) though that eminthaller sound fantastic too.

[@jamescaron6465]

That was very interesting and I’m sure that egg you used also helped bind it together as well. You do a really good job, decoding these recipes, and I’m with you and had a little sugar to it, as well as maybe a half a teaspoon of salt.

[@Cyloonian]

Max, your voice is as smooth as apple pie. I really enjoy your episodes and I am happy you chose to keep doing this. Yes! Keep doing your thing! You rock!

[@gingerkid1048]

We had some 18 year old cheddar that was as crystalline as parm that I grated into the crisp part of an apple crisp. It was so good. Perfect salty/sweet combo.

[@powersteamracing]

Me: " Oh apple pie? I wonder if he'll have an Applin in the background" *watches video* "Heck yeah he does!"

[@annbrookens945]

Perfect, right? Congratulations, Max and Jose!

[@punkbassist98]

I thought it was Mr Krabs' head

[@vtr0104]

This made me read in Pro ZD's voice for some reason :)))

[@richmxnd_]

Congratulations on your wedding. Also thanks for the years of great content!

[@bladestrikerr]

I watched so much Chef John that hearing "around the outside" just once felt very wrong haha

[@joeyjoe7930]

Wow, this channel has grown so quickly! Nearly 1 million subs already!!!! And deserving as well, in my opinion. Congrats Max!

[@robinmichel9048]

I had to amend an apple pie with pears once because I didn't have enough apples. It was yummy! The pears more or less dissolved into mush but it added an interesting texture and flavor.

[@Rocketsong]

I did the same with an apple crisp. Turns out, I like a 50/50 mix of pear and apple much better than just apples.

[@lobsterbark]

Pears are often used as a filler for all sorts of commercially made fruit based foods. It only has the flavors that almost every fruit shares, and not any flavor that makes it distinct from any other fruit.

[@cdpsop29]

This is interesting - the "pies" made by my German Grandmother and my mother, and now me are more of a kuchen (cake). The dough crust is sweet (almost like cookie/shortbread), and the filling is a bit tart. More traditional in her region than what we refer to as pie.

[@morganmcallister2001]

I was wondering about this too. I spent some time in Poland and found Jablecznik, which is like cake with apple pie filling. For me personally, since I don't really care much for pie crust, I greatly preferred this version. When Max started talking about the crust being a little flat cake, I immediately thought of that. Interesting that both cultures would recognize an apple cake dessert. I wonder how much of the recipe would be shared between the two.

[@lisapop5219]

My husband is out right now getting me 20lbs or more of apples for winter preserving. Apple sauce, butter and apple cider vinegar are happening today.

[@Doug_in_NC]

My (British) mom used to make her grandmother’s apple pie recipe , and that required cooking the apple while stirring it (the very sour Bradley cooking apple that I’ve never found in the US) until it was pretty soft and then draining off the liquid before it went into the pie, so I grew up with “mushy” apple pie too.

[@carolhaeberle5489]

Made this for Thanksgiving and used Arkansas Black Apples and aged cheddar. Other than having a bit too much saffron in the crust, it had a good balance between the sharpness of the cheese, and the mild sweetness from the apples. I will be making it again. Thankyou for sharing, such a unique recipe.

[@ryanwilliamson5714]

In scotland the phrase we use is just 'easy as pie' That or eezy peezy lemon squeezy 😂

[@frocat5163]

Here in the US, I've never heard, "Easy as apple pie," either. I've only heard, "Easy as pie."

[@PLuMUK54]

This would be good with a sharp cooking apple and a strong cheese such as a vintage cheddar. The two would balance each other, though possibly a little sugar to tone down the tartness of the apple might be necessary. Dessert apples do not have a strong enough flavour to hold their own. Pear and cheese would also be a good combination. I've eaten pear and Stilton tart and it was delicious.

[@adoxerella]

I had the same thought, a tart granny smith with a nice cheddar would be amazing, though as a fan of tart apples for normal eating, I probably wouldn't add too much sugar.

[@kirbyculp3449]

I may have a go at that pear and Stilton tart. Costco is selling English Stilton.

[@2Ten1Ryu]

Stop it, I'm getting hungry!! :D

[@kirbyculp3449]

@@2Ten1Ryu The cheese is waiting to get in your belly.

[@Auriorium]

I sometimes wonder while watching this episodes: What would Apicius do with access to all the different food stuffs we have. Also strudel is best apple pastry. Change my mind.

[@funkysagancat3295]

that's the correct opinion

[@xuedalong]

Pommes chauson

[@chanman819]

Strudel is a delivery vehicle for apple-flavoured butter and there ain't nuthin' wrong with that

[@leoricsservant7859]

I once ate Strudel at the palace in Vienna. It was so light, but not too dry too. The only topping was powdered sugar, but it didn't need more than that. I wholeheartedly recommend to book a tour that includes Strudel tasting!

[@SaffronDebauchee]

Definitely a firm cheddar for me when I try this out. A dependable cheese unlikely to overwhelm the apples. Really, with no covering this does seem appealingly tarty, pleasant though it can be to lift the crust of a covered pie and admire the delicous filling beneath. Love the origin story of the tatin and I find it oddly pleasing (in a playful way) to think of enjoying pie upside down, or bottoms up as it were. I have a shortage of apples on my tree this year but will be sure to set some aside to try this out when the season comes. Not that I couldn't just buy apples but I think using ones from my garden will add to the experience, make the pie more intimately mine. Glorious anticipation again from this recipe, another excellent video.

[@oldbrokensqueezebox]

i discovered the wonderful combo of apple and swiss cheese on my own awhile back. I had read a German recipe for Ham & Swiss Melts that included a thin slice of pear placed inbetween the ham and cheese on top of the bread, then the whole thing baked. I didnt have pear, or Ham, so I simply tried slicing apple into thin chips, frying them in butter, then placing on bread with swiss cheese on top then baking. I was thoroughly pleased with the result. You definately picked the right cheese for this recipe. theres just something about swiss cheese and fruit they just go together very well. I'll have to try this apple and cheese pie sometime!

[@angelaroussell6428]

The recipe with apples, pears, raisins, and figs sounds like a mincemeat pie without the meat or suet.

[@Lauren.E.O]

The Forme of Curry always returns when you least expect it

[@gingerkid1048]

Like Jaws it always comes back.

[@tomf3150]

Just like the Spanish Inquisition.

[@tabbylocascio3995]

My great grandmother had an apple pie recipe that had a filling that was like apple sauce. She said it was her mother's recipe, that she got from her mother. I think it's interesting that it might be an old world recipe since Appalachia (where my family is from) is so isolated.

[@ashleyhyatt6319]

Always love your videos. In fact, I always fast forward through the ads on other channels but not yours; even though I live overseas and cannot make use of the products. Thank you, sir!

[@b0nniemasten448]

it was a tradition for my family when visiting NYC, back in the day, to have warm apple pie with a wedge of melted cheddar on top

[@toniecat1028]

Ladies & Gentlemen, let us salute Max's expressive and lustrous eyebrows! Hail to thee, fair feathery birds flying over those sweet luminous orbs! I greet you with high praise!

[@TiffSpiffy]

He is in fact an actual Disney prince, I'm convinced of it.

[@dwaynezilla]

@@TiffSpiffy He really is, hahaha. I'm sure there are even a few Disney princes that are less princely as he is.

[@kellydean3735]

@@TiffSpiffy Well, he DID play a few! (I think he said it was on the Disney cruise.)

[@kellydean3735]

A toast to Max's Expressive Eyebrows! Hazzah!!🍻

[@toniecat1028]

@@kellydean3735 Indeed!

[@JetstreamGW]

"Get something very mild." Or, or And hear me out here. Parmigiano reggiano.

[@DiMacky24]

Yes, feet pie.

[@Lauren.E.O]

People still eat apple pie with cheese! I keep meaning to try it and end up forgetting to put the cheese in before it goes in the oven… 🍎 🧀

[@justoheaghra1317]

Yeah I thought apple and Stilton pie was pretty common, maybe that’s jus in my house 😃. I’ve heard of Wensleydale and Apple pie as well but I’ve never had that one.

[@00muinamir]

I love it. I've also grated the cheese and worked it into the crust, it provides a nice savory contrast to the filling.

[@chesterlestrange7725]

We just put a couple of thin slices or some grated cheddar on top of our piece after its cut.

[@JesseGreenwood-h1o]

I was tinkering around with making apple pie by slicing and sauteeing the apples in butter first, then adding spices for another few stirs, then adding honey to that and a tad more butter to keep it from sticking. It gave the filling an almost butterscotch-y effect. I used unsalted butter, but sprinkled a tiny bit of sea salt in with the final stirs, before putting everything in the pie crust for a bake...the result was lovely!😊

[@crystalalexander6634]

My grandpa always used to say, apple pie without the cheese is like a kiss without the squeeze.