Apple Watch OS9 vs Stryd Pod vs Garmin vs Polar vs COROS! - Running Power Deep Dive Comparison!

[@ylimehajile]

I'm a huge Apple fan - just not of their watch. But I do love it when they implement new features because it pushes Garmin that much harder (at least I hope so).

[@thomasmorse1677]

Any thoughts on the wrist based power measurement from the new forerunner 265 and 965 compared to the stryd and other devices?

[@oscarfarias3355]

I am currently using the Apple Watch 6 love it

[@meyocr]

Thanks for the content, really interesting dive, hope power running takes a leap on the comming months/years

[@ChaseTheSummit]

It will be interesting to see how it matures!

[@AddingLifeAdventure]

I'm not an apple guy. I did watch the video, because I love your reviews. It was cool to see the comparisons. Well done

[@manfredlinzner-scherf41]

One thing that could be interesting to test: how consistent are the sensors when running the same route in different shoes. I love my Stryd but the fiddling around with the calibration value to get somewhat similar results is a bummer. I’m wondering if watch based measurements are more consistent when changing shoes.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Interesting, I'll have to try that!

[@alanorcharton8855]

I only really notice a problem with the Stryd and vapor fly that has the laces at an odd angle- the main problem is the distance goes way off. Probably impacts power too.

[@carlo-sacchi]

AW + WorkOutDoors and I'm not missing anymore my Polar

[@alanorcharton8855]

I find power useful for speedwork and hills. I also like using it on the treadmill - I am using Stryd for that.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Thanks for sharing!

[@obikedog]

Great review. All things being equal it would be nice to have full precision during a walk but I think what Apple did was turn off the function when it senses the run is over/paused to save battery ("run power", right? ie. I don't include my walks in my Training peaks.) Definitely wouldn't run out and get a heart rate strap and running watch to capture that walk data!

[@ChaseTheSummit]

For sure, my concern is that when "hiking" up a steep incline there's a significant level of power output but it's simply ignored on Apple Watch.

[@obikedog]

@@ChaseTheSummit Didn't think of that. I do include my backpacking hike data.

[@Burps___]

@@ChaseTheSummit I wonder, though, if the AW would display a power rating even for an uphill hike based on the barometer, accelerometer and inclinometer data indicating a significant power output. What do you think, Dave? Thanks

[@DeLFeTube]

Does the latest WatchOS still record zero for walking ?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Nope that was fixed in a later update.

Is it so hard to say that Apple Watch is better than Garmin in measuring running power (while running) and comparable to Stryd, which is the most accurate because it calculates running power from running dynamics and not just from some basic formulas like Garmin and Polar? By the way, Apple Watches are now even more accurate even while walking.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

I think I imply that I think it’s better in this video? Garmins numbers are always way too high. Oddly, I find COROS and Apple too look very similar. You’re correct, they fixed that quickly run/walk issue with power shortly after I made this video. Thanks for watching.

[@thani7963]

Thank you for great review, is cycling power next for apple, will they add power meter compatibility?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Time will tell!

[@thani7963]

@@ChaseTheSummit marketing is key drive for adding these features .

[@stephenhattwick3881]

Thanks!

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Thank you !

[@pedalandypedal]

What do you use to analyze the metrics from all the devices in on chart/graph?

[@matthiassventoest6800]

…great stuff.., interesting indeed.

[@mikebenson7732]

Excellent video!

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Thanks!

[@communicationiskey-]

Even-though Apple still sales the iWatch v3 the power update will not be available for that model. Glad I purchased a Coros!

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Yep, only on Series 5, 6, 7 and SE. Which is still a lot of devices!

[@communicationiskey-]

I recently became a Coros convert also thanks to your channel…

[@ZotmundSzele]

Nice video, Professor Dillon :D Is the tool you're using Ray's DCRainmaker Analyser?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Nope, I use something called Quantified. Rays tool is great though.

[@jasonfenech5347]

I think that there is a lot of room for improvement regarding running power for all the tested watches. By the way, is the "Good morning report" from Garmin forerunner 955 is available to the Epix 2?

[@rcuadro]

Not available yet. I installed the Alpha firmware for my Fenix 7 (same as the Epix basically) and it is not there yet

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Agreed. Running Power is still in its infancy. I'm sure we'll see a lot of progress over the next few years. Unfortunately the morning report feature isn't on Fenix 7 or Epix yet but it's in Beta. So it will be coming soon!

[@juanjaviercoka7406]

Do you think the fact that it didn’t record running power when walking a bug since it’s still a beta?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

I guess we'll see? COROS was similar in the early days and they've since updated it.

[@JesseCleaver]

What's the advantage of using power vs. heart rate zones for training?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

The real advantage is that power changes instantly on rolling hills while heart rate takes time to ramp up/down so it's harder to dial into a easy/hard zone.

[@nkeet89]

I wonder if Apple will come to play with a recovery score. I think it;'s a must. As a long time apple watch user I also wear a whoop to get the other data. Depending on the result of recovery/hrv/etc in the Apple Watch I will either return to an Apple Watch and drop the whoop or go to a Garmin Epix.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Agreed. I'm hoping to see Apple introduce some of these metrics with the inclusion of Running power. Hopefully when OS9 is officially launched we see something?

[@brandonstewart1323]

Please tell me if it adopts the body battery function

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Nope

[@paolofont1]

Nice review. Do you know if there’s a way to import workouts done with the AW, measuring power, into Stryd Powercenter? Since it seems that numbers coming from the AW and Stryd are similar, that would be quite useful in case you do not have a Stryd pod with you.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Hasn't happened yet... Probably because Stryd wants people to buy their hardware. That would be pretty slick though!

[@FunFactsClub]

Very impressive that the Apple Watch detects walking so consistently and accurately. Unless Apple create a Run/Walk activity within the watch that records power during both activities?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

My only concern is that if I'm hiking up a steep hill the watch doesn't register that power which can be considerable! It would be nice to see this tweaked in the production release.

[@energysourcelove]

Do all the workouts on Apple watch show zones or just the running workout. Does it work for say cycling or rowing?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

It works for cycling as well but only for heart rate, not power.

[@22joek]

will the watches with the smaller screen (Apple Watch 4/5/6) also get the same datafields?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Series 5,6,7, and SE will get the update. I don't think anything older will.

[@marcopolocucina2484]

Using stryd power center, etc to create CP, power zones, race estimates is most useful. What app would one use with apple native power data to understand CP, FTP, race estimates?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Apple doesn't have those features but I suspect some third party developers are thinking of ways to utilize this metric as we speak.

[@marcopolocucina2484]

@@ChaseTheSummit I guess, one can just do a 20 min or 5k time trial, get their FTP from that, then plug into training peaks run ftp for zone settings. Be wonderful if a third party made an app to do it automatically and link to Apple Watch.

[@mateuszwardzynski]

Another great comparison, Dave! Thank you for sharing. If i got it right, Garmin devices cannot estimate running power without a HRM strap, but Polar and AW can. On the other hand, we know that HR monitoring is way more precise with chest strap than built-in OHR on the wrist. I understand that power estimation is based on some accelerometer, gyroscope sensors AND heart rate as well. Don't you think that we should compare running power data from different watches connected to chest strap to increase precision? Do you think it would make a difference? Or maybe another test: two identical watches, one with strap connected.... anyways, it's cool they helped you extract the power data from AW. Very iteresting stuff. Wonder where it goes im the near future. Still just estimation (in cycling power is a real-life measurment of the force), but more and more interesting

[@ChaseTheSummit]

From my understanding Running Power isn't derived from heart rate at all. It's a mixture of the gyroscope, altimeter, and accelerometer which would make sense because in theory Heart Rate is a completely separate metric that varies from person to person while Power is the same. After all, the Stryd Pod is regarded as one of the gold standards in running power tech but has no means of gauging heart rate.

[@mateuszwardzynski]

Oh.. thanks for explainig that! I was convinced that wrtist-located power meters use OHR data (not the absolute values, just changes and trends) as well... in that case: are there additionl sensors on-board the Garmin's chest straps?

[@WariWahab]

You can also use the RD Pod from Garmin if you don't want to pay for the premium of the HRM Run/Pro

[@DesdinovaCrux]

@@mateuszwardzynski The Garmin HR straps (except the dual) have accelerometers inbuilt - hence why they get Running Dynamics as well

[@mateuszwardzynski]

@@DesdinovaCrux Thx for explaining that. I'm not a Garmin user, didn't know about it.

[@tonybowen455]

Just wanna throw out there that coros pace 2 is amazing for the price. Can skip the stryd pod with it, and the watch even without power is amazing. Unfortunately, I need full nav or I'd have one!

[@lilgalbi]

If I buy Healthfit will it allow me to export the beta power data from watchos 9?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

It’s in Beta still but it will be available soon.

[@craigdennen6193]

Dave is there any way of pairing a Stryd pod with the Apple Watch standard running app much like you can an external hr monitor?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Unfortunately no, that would require native support and I have a feeling Apple would never do that lol. COROS is currently the only sports watch that has native Stryd support.

[@tonybowen455]

@@ChaseTheSummit The stryd ios app is great, but isn't the standard aw app that you asked. Someone else or Dave would know better, but arguably stryd ios app the cleanest app for stryd. Coros is prob the best thing in this video overall, but I have a stryd pod and tied to garmin eco system already.

[@aerobrain2001]

@@ChaseTheSummit wahoo RIVAL has native Stryd support now as well by the way. You can display the full suite of metrics live during a run.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

@@aerobrain2001 oh right! Forgot about that update!

[@aerobrain2001]

@@ChaseTheSummit I’ll be honest, it doesn’t really add a lot. During the run all I really want is the power, but nice to get the other metrics in the fit file at least. Really annoying thing though is you can’t set a calibration factor so my distance is always out! Looking forward to getting the public watch OS beta and doing some tests on the data!

[@keithc1264]

What do we know about Apple having customized training plans based on power like Strava does?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Nothing yet, but they do allow you to create training plans with power targets. It would be cool if they built these automatically at some point.

[@keithc1264]

@@ChaseTheSummit Agreed. I’ve not run with power, so it would only be an output number, not an input number. HR is both sense I know where the lines are between zones. Power is a number with no standard. I’m sure I can learn over time what my “easy” and “hard” power numbers are, but auto-generated custom training plans would make that process much easier and quicker.

[@oscargine9384]

I'm not sure to understand the importance of knowing running power. I think the relevant data when running are pace and heart rate, in the same way that with a car the relevant data are speed (that would be the equivalent to pace when running) and consumption (that would be the equivalent to HR when running) but, when driving, nobody cares to know how much power the engine is providing at any given moment.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Running Power is useful for maintaining a certain effort during training because it's feedback is instant. So if you're running on rolling hills and want to maintain an "easy" effort your watch can provide that data. If you try to do this with heart rate there's a significant delay between your effort level and your heart rate raising/sinking so determining the exact "easy pace" can become a lot harder. Of course, Running power isn't something you absolutely NEED to use but a lot of folks can find value in it if used properly. At the end of the day perceived effort is the easiest way to gauge effort.

[@oscargine9384]

In any case, Dave, I see the utility of heart rate zone training as well as the health benefits of monitoring your heart rate during an ultratrail. I also see the utility of training running series at a certain pace, but I do not see how training at a certain training power could contribute in anything to a better work out or how controlling training power could give a greater security in terms of health.

[@manfredlinzner-scherf41]

The key here is that power changes immediately, while HR needs time to adjust. With that in mind I would argue that consumption of a car (how much do you need to put into it to achieve a certain outcome) is a lot closer to running power than HR. Think of driving at 80 km/h and you want to overtake another car. In order to do so you are increasing to 100km/h. At what point will the consumption increase? Immediately at the time you press the pedal. Now think of the same thing while running. You are at a constant pace and your next interval is coming up. You are speeding up to reach that new target pace. Power will change immediately to reflect the new speed (and even shows peaks when you overdid it a bit). HR on the other hand will probably need a minute or two to reflect the new effort you are putting into it. The more changes you encounter in your runs (shorter intervals, rolling hills, …) the more useful power is. If you are mostly on endurance runs, or your training includes a lot of fartlek / long interval runs, power is certainly less relevant or even brings no benefit over HR.

[@oscargine9384]

Thanks Dave and Manfred for your comments. I'm mostly on endurance runs and probably that is the reason I don't see training power as a relevant data but I now understand your point. Even though, I'm not sure that to know and record training power data can help to better plan workouts or run safetier.

[@matthewmackay3354]

Another great comparison review. Apple entering the picture means more competition which benefits all of us. I love my Stryd/Pace2 combo, but the Apple entry sure is intriguing. Good luck with the allergies!

[@NetvoTV]

Do you think watchOS 9 plus series 8 base on the rumor will make it a good enough running traning watch to improve your run while make your day to day more productive too with the Apple ecosystem integration and you dont need a Garmin anymore (955 is price of a phone and 255 need accesory and not an Apple Watch level of over all package)? Do you know I can have a couch and daily workout suggestion function like Garmin on Apple Watch?

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Apple still has a ways to go before I'd replace my Garmin with one. First, battery life is still a huge issue for me. Second are all of the wellness metrics like Body Battery, HRV Status, etc... and of course the training tools. They're getting closer though! I'm looking forward to see what they have in store with the next version!

[@NetvoTV]

@@ChaseTheSummit I see, heart rate zone is different to HRV? Third party apps on AW dont provide these? Do you know if there's app to coach you when is your recover, rest and performance days and also how to improve your run base on your data instead of give you data and you have to figure out yourself on the AW?

[@jwehman]

I have the AW Series 5 and Watch OS 9, beta 3 now. Unfortunately, Running Power, Ground Contact Time and Vert Oscil. are only picked up in the Series 6 and 7. Something to think about. That being said, I'm not sure what Running Power will actually help with. I haven't used it, so there's that, but it seems like a metric that won't be all that helpful. I mean, if I'm running at 350W, so what? Is that good or bad? Do I need to slow down, pick the pace up, increase my stride,? Also -when your AW doesn't pick up power when you're walking, I wonder if you have "auto pause" enabled on your running workout? When you slow down to a walk, it might be pausing until you start running again. Just a thought. Nice comparison...keep it up!

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Power is helpful but only if you know how to use it to your point. I'm hoping Apple does something "appley" and makes Running Power easy to use by suggesting workouts or training plans based on your habits. Take the guess work out! Time will tell. No, auto pause was not enabled. All other metrics were recorded, just not power.

[@marcopolocucina2484]

You use data to set your FTP, and thus ftp zones … just like any serious cyclist does.

[@Nonixification]

Running power is almost useless at this point. Chest heart rate is much better indicator to compare run to run. avg hr vs pace(+elevation)

[@ChaseTheSummit]

In some cases. The real advantage of Power is that the changes in effort are instant where as heart rate can take several seconds to ramp up and down which can make zone training hard.

[@MatejaMaric]

Apple: There, we added running power. Y'all happy now?! Also Apple: What do you mean you want walking power as well?? How about you just pick up the pace and stop being a wuss. You're holding it wrong.

[@juanjaviercoka7406]

Hahahaha I imagine it’s a big since it’s in beta

[@Burps___]

RIP Stryd ☠️

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Kinda... Time will tell!

[@thecooldude4564]

Great video as always! Makes zero sense, for me standing or slow walking should not be part of the battery count. I wonder what Apple’s Employees Are going to say, about how they came up with battery count and the Benefits according to Apple’s standards. But it’s great for us as consumers more competition. The only issue I have is that apple is a multi-billion dollar company that’s not fair for garmin or polar among others. Apple has the best heart rate monitor in the market. When apple does something the outcome is really good.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Hmm

[@milomito3322]

Maybe someone can help me: If I'm using an older Garmin, like the 245 together with a stryd pod or the HRM Pro, do I get the Running Power shown in my Workout Summary in the Garmin App/Website? As far as I know its not shown during the run, except you download a data field from Garmin Connect, so I'm wondering if its included in the summary later on... Thanks for your help!!

[@ChaseTheSummit]

You'll only see power displayed if you install the "Running Power" widget from the Connect IQ store and use the HRM Pro or Running Dynamics pod. Stryd will not be shown.

[@milomito3322]

@@ChaseTheSummit Thanks for the explanation. Will I see it in the summary of my run in the Garmin App or on their connect website?

[@yuriivanov1349]

You are cool!

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Thanks!

[@Fozzee.1970]

Such a shame run distances are still incorrect as they insist on using their own algorithms rather than straight gps.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

They don't seem wildly inaccurate but they're certainly a bit off.

[@rodrigorios3271]

RUNNING power should be zero when you are not RUNNING, no? 🤔😉 I don’t think Apple is actually recording zero power while you walking. They are simply not measuring it at all. Since no data points are generated while walking, the avg, max and min RUNNING power numbers will be perfect and will reflect what happened while you were RUNNING.

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Yes and No, my issue as a trail/hill runner is that when I'm power hiking up a hill I don't get credit for it even though the power output is actually higher than running on flat terrain. For me that presents an issue in training. COROS had a similar issue in the early days but they've since updated it. Hopefully Apple does the same! Thanks for watching!

[@mr.onbekend7959]

If you want running power for running there is no better then stryd pod. Apple isnt even coming close to it

[@RumbleBack-iz3tl]

As you can see: Apple did it already with the first shot. Except the „walking“ sections. I think you can save the money for a Stryd pod if they fix this

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Stryd is awesome! However, some of these wrist based solutions are getting really good!

[@mr.onbekend7959]

@@RumbleBack-iz3tl no they didnt. Numbers went all over the chart

[@tadejdanev5030]

covid :)

[@ChaseTheSummit]

Hmm?

[@tadejdanev5030]

@@ChaseTheSummit Your cough at start -:)