Arcane S2 | the problem with Caitlyn

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Second channel: www.youtube.com/@thoughtlesstree

[@BuddyChy]

I think people misunderstood, exaggerated, and oversimplified where Caitlyn’s character was at the end of act 1 and throughout act 2. No one should’ve been surprised how easily she flipped on Ambessa in episode 6 because she was never that far gone in the first place. Despite her misguided actions stemming from her grief and hyper fixation on Jinx, she didn’t actually change who she really is. She doesn’t want violence to be the answer to every problem as she made clear in episode 4 and she still cares about trying to do good. It wasn’t a hard decision for her to believe Vi about Warwick being her father and doing what she could to help them. She even already made it clear how disgusted she was by Singed and his experiments. It was easy for her to realize Warwick was a victim

[@madelinew1708]

I agree. SO much of that is told through her eyes too.. after her mother's funeral, she really does have a glazed look to her eyes. I'd argue that even when she kisses Vi her eyes are fogged and she doesn't make eye contact with her. With Ambessa and even with Maddie her eyes are still hardened - we literally only see her eyes sparkle when Vi calls her cupcake. She's in so much of a haze that she only starts to buffer out of it months later. It makes sense to me that she folded as soon as she spoke with Vi. It was the real Caitlyn coming out after holding herself in for a long time.

[@alexanderbergstrom4405]

This is the right answer. This issue is from what ive seen, stem from people completely misunderstanding of flanderizing her character in act 1. She never stopped caring about bystanders and innocents. She never became a warhawk, quite the opposite, she actively works against war throughout all of act 1 and season 1. When her mother is killed she has every excuse in the world to stop caring about the people of Zaun, but she doseant. She hates Jinx and the Chembarons, but thats it. She compromises somewhat in the hunt for Jinx but never to a state of indiscriminate violence, which she abhors consistently throughout all of Arcane. People who somehow genuinely believed Caitlyn turned vindictive powermonger either did not watch the show or let memes and fanon trump the actual show.

[@beden653]

She is such a bad dictator that she banned the use of the lower floors of the prison with terrible conditions...

[@Yeneney]

@@alexanderbergstrom4405 I agree up to the point about caring about bystanders and innocents. She did gas all of Zaun and was ready to shoot a child. You could argue that's the "compromise" you're talking about but I'd still see that as a "state of indiscriminate violence". Although you could probably discuss where the threshold lies (?)

[@RowanRayne]

@@Yeneney I honestly don't think she was 'ready to shoot a child'. Caitlyn almost never misses.

[@mkraulis]

To be sure, I feel like the Caitlyn story line is a bit of a misdirection so far. I don't fully buy the narrative that Caitlyn was only out for vengeance. She somewhat reluctantly accepted the nomination of "Commander" probably more so she may act as a stop gap to the war hawks. Consider how bad things might have been if Salo had been appointed Commander. She constantly is looking to find Jinx, imo, to be able to end the suffering caused by the Martial Law. Caitlyn is very aware of Ambessa's manipulations, but knows her course forward is full of potentially lethal traps ( because Ambessa seems psychopathic at times). As a call back to episode 1 of this season, like she told Vi in the hallway, I think Caitlyn will admit that she bit off more than she could handle later on. By the time Caitlyn helps Vi with Vander, Caitlyn feels that the duo of Singed and Ambessa (especially if they get hold of Warwick) is the greater threat.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Oh yeah don't get me wrong, it's not all out vengeance against Jinx however, as Vi tried to convince herself in act 1, Jinx needs stopping in order to end the conflict. Caitlyn feels it's essential and Ambessa provides a means, even if she never fully agrees with her

[@Nata-ch2bk]

Yeah, it's crazy to me that some people think Caitlyn deciding to side with Vi is illogical. For me, the opposite would have been illogical. Choosing loyalty to Ambessa in that situation, over Vi? When we've been given clues this whole time that she doesn't agree with Ambessa's methods. And also that she obviously still cares deeply for Vi. She doesn't care for Ambessa, they just happened to have been on the same side regarding Zaun and Jinx, nothing more nothing less. Also the end of act 1 is obviously Ambessa forcing her hand, Caitlyn herself didn't want to become any kind of dictator, and after that there is a time jump anyways.

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

Exactly! Caitlyn was shocked when Ambessa called her name. She was basically pressured into that role. In her mind, she could use martial law to put enough pressure on Zaun so they can give up Jinx, just like she tried to do with the Grey.

[@thecod2345]

Honestly I think we just needed to see more of Caitlyn’s descent before she came back to her senses. The time skip really robbed her of the chance to explore her and Ambessa in depth. Usually Arcane can get away with being quick but that particular detail was far too quick.

[@felipecouto1102]

That's not the problem tho. The problem is that Caitlyn's Act 1 was all about escalation, and there was not a single point of de-escalation. On the contrary, she was escalating, only stopped by Vi... and THEN she threw Vi away by her own will. Vi, who was symbolized and straight up told to be her only stopgap from doing bad stuff was removed, and then Act 1 ends giving her even *more* power... for Act 2 to already begin completely de-escalated, with her distrusting Ambessa from the very beginning Its a LOT of tell and very little show in Act 2, *that's* the problem. Siding with Vi is not *illogical*, it just feels unearned because Act 1 took its time to set things up, while Act 2 instantly dismantled all of that

[@Nata-ch2bk]

​@@felipecouto1102 I see where you're coming from, however I do not really share the same point of view regarding Caitlyn in act 1. First of all, what Caitlyn does in act 1 isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Most of what we saw was her raiding Zaun gang hideouts, so in a way she was mostly doing her "job". As for the last scene when she shot at Jinx, she was confident in her aim and that she wasn't going to hit the kid (Isha), and everything up till this point told us that this was the case, she can aim and she knows it. So again, all she did was taking a shot at Jinx, which is not only her job but also what Vi agreed to ("if you see her, take the shot" or something along those lines.) The thing that we see is how angry she is, but that's where you have to consider the timing. Everything that happens in season 2 act 1 is directly following the rocket from the end of season 1, which lead to the death of her mother. Then just after that there is the attack during the memorial. She has to process all that in a couple of days at most, so it makes sense that she is angry in the moment. It doesn't mean that it has changed her personality. It's like a momentary state of mind. Then at the end of act 1, Ambessa forces her hand to become the commander, a position that she neither requested nor was really willing to accept without a lot of hesitation. This is where comes the important factor : the time jump. While so many dreadful events happen in a matter of just a few days during end of season 1 + act 1 of season 2, act 2 of season 2 starts after a few months of time jump, which was a good writing decision in my opinion. You have to assume that characters have had time to reflect on what happened during act 1 and move on from it. This is also the case for Jinx, as is shown during her dialogue with Isha in episode 4 ("Jinx is dead") and her monologue at Silco's empty chair. So why do some people understand that Jinx can move on in the span of a few months, but not Caitlyn? Right from the first scene with Maddie in the bed, you can see that (obviously) Caitlyn is way more calm and temperate after a few months have passed compared to the state she was in within a few days of 2 deadly Zaunite attacks. I think some people have an issue wrapping their head around that because they looked too much into the last scene of act 1, with Caitlyn doing the fist to chest move, and assumed too much from that scene. They assumed that it meant more than it actually did. They were expecting a full dictator Caitlyn in act 2 and that's not what the show provided for them. In my opinion they had their expectation in the wrong place. I mean, this was also intentional from the writers to lead us in the wrong direction and have us theorize on possibilites, and be surprised later when something different happens. But writers were also probably expecting that viewers would be able to move on from the false expectations they were mislead into as a cliffhanger for act 1.

[@Maotrix-RandomGameStuff]

@@felipecouto1102 but it did show, you can watch expressions, one thing i love about arcane si that its like a novel, on frist reading you may not get the whole picture, but upon revisiting it finer details come out. Fortiche has always beeen known for putting everything with intention, this includes, colors, facial expressions, actions, dialogue, etc. In many scenes caitlyns reactions and face expressions show us what she is thinking. For instance when she is accusing singed of being a monster, singed explains "why do people commit acts others deem unspeakable... for love" in that moment the camera shows caits expression and it changes on the word love. Even when she sees orianna her expression is shown as pensive. Althermore, on episode 6 the whole theme is about love, hate, compassion, how ion humanity it makes us commit the worst of acts and also the best of acts. Cait has realized what not letting go did to singed, making him a monster. Caits love for her mom is amking her do unspeakable such as siding with ambessa and pushing VI away, but that same love for VI is what makes her do good as seen in s1 of the show. Altogether, even though the show does lack explicit presentation of cait committing this acts it does do it not only trhought dialoguwe and expressions but also through the start of ep 4 in the itnro msuic where it can be seen a,mbessa motivates ait into furthering agression to find jinx and hten enforcers are shooting. Evwen though i would have prefereed it to be epxlicit and not in a music video, it still shows the studios attention to detail and to the symbolism of it all. sorry for the typos hehe

[@satanexe5632]

i feel like caitlyn never wanted to be a dictator. she only wanted to do what was right. her morals never changed it was stress and misguidance on ambessas part that lead her away from who she was. besdies if you think about it she was really forced into the position she was. it was an impossible situation.

[@ianquick4284]

Yea... but she did also decide to gas civilians all on her own, which was worse than anything she did under ambessa

[@rizwanzaman1793]

I really didn’t want Isha to die I really, really, really, really didn’t

[@liviafriedmann2511]

I think the reason they needed to cut the Cait/Vi scene short was to preserve the tension of whether Cait truly betrayed Vi when she presented her to Ambessa... if she clearly sided with Vi there would've been no tension in there... I agree that the season would've been even greater (though it is still awesome) if it expanded on certain themes/charater developments... my feeling is that they originally planned more seasons, but higher ups wanted to reduce it to 2, so they had to make do with that... and being the talented group they are, they still made it work. I might be wrong, especially since they themselves say that they planned only 2 seasons originally, but that can also be due to NDAs that don't allow them to talk about creative differences openly. Anyways, I still immensely enjoy the show and Act II kept me in a weeping state almost constantly 😅 Thanks for these vids! They help a lot in getting me throuh the week until the final act!

[@lostvarius]

They definitely planned more. It’ll surface eventually

[@liviafriedmann2511]

​@@lostvariusI agree... time will definitely tell!

[@axelwust9376]

I don't think the higher ups were ever that much of a pusher on them. I think they legit focused on only 2 seasons, because the way it is going feels like they very much planned on these things from the start. The problem is that no one called out on adding that one extra ingredient needed to otherwise excellent setup and payoff. Either they got rushed, so they got through 95% of the way, but that left 5% noticeable gap.

[@MI24CL3]

​@@lostvariusDo you even have any insider info or is that just speculation? Cus that's not what I heard from the crew a couple of years back 🤫

[@Maotrix-RandomGameStuff]

@@lostvariusthey said two seasons were always planned bruh

[@frag_rj]

In my opinion Cait's meeting with Singed is the turning point. She realized that death and letting people go is the fate you can't stop it or if you try it get too messy/cynical to prevent the consequences. In this case she witnessed shimmer. She is intelligent, knew she is already in the trap of Ambessa, without Jayce, Mel or anyone in her side, who could trust her and give her the strength, she can not do anything. And the use of "death" in Arcane is something I love so much, it's something when happened you just can't rewrite it and if you try to do that there are consequences, also viktor curing everyone is not ethically right, or is it?

[@tathabarcellos]

What made me fall in love with arcane was the family theme. Arcane has always been about that, and I'm glad they didn't neglect it. About Cait's character, I've always seen her as a secondary character since s1, so from the beginning I wasn't very involved in where her character was going, maybe that's why I didn't find her change strange.

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

Exactly this! Caitlyn is a supporting character and most of these people are more interested in lesbian romance than the theme about family which is the main theme of this show. The main characters are clearly Vi, Jinx, Jace and Viktor. They are the ones whose actions have driven the story from the beginning. Vander, Silco, Ambessa, Mel, Caitlyn, Ekko and Heimerdinger are all supporting/side characters.

[@loycos3648]

im a big caitlyn fan and i felt like her arc was pushed to the side for.... things that feel like fan service filler? i dont understand why we needed so many vander flashbacks. i agree with u- logically caitlyn's actions make sense. but caitlyn, unlike jinx, doesnt tend to talk to herself, so we dont hear her thoughts. she doesnt lash out like vi. her expressions are harder to read- shes closed off and reserved. she is a VERY hard character for people to pick out, and shes been like this since s1- just look how many ppl completely glaced over her character in that season. thats why i loved act 1 so much- when given the time and attention, shes brilliant. but u cant just expect ppl to pick up on her cues like they do with jinx and vi. she didnt have enough emotional exploration in this act that the audience can SEE. so she feels rushed, and it felt like that to me too until a second watch. even me, who love her dearly and pay extra attention in every scene shes in, had a hard time picking up on her emotional arc. so i can't imagine how just someone who's normal about caitlyn would pick up on it on a first watch.

[@erenja3ger871]

Agree with most of your points but nah I loved the vander flashback. Showed his humanity along with the dream all 3 of them wanted. Also shows why he fights so damn hard to live because that dream is worth fighting for.

[@loycos3648]

​@@erenja3ger871we know the type of person vander is. we got to spend time with him in s1 act 1. im not saying they had to cut all of it out, but him picking out vi's name? felt like fan service. i didnt need to know he personally knew vi and powder's mom. all i needed to know was communicated to me in the very first scene of the show. if they had time, sure, those flashbacks wouldve been cute. but they took so much time and completely threw us out of the pace of the current events and our main cast. like i said, caitlyn got the short end of the stick after her arc built up so beautifully in act 1 and her story felt rushed.

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

Caitlyn is a supporting character in this series, the relationship Vi and Jinx have with Vander is definitely not filler and way more important to this story. The whole thing literally started with Vander adopting Vi and Jinx after their parents died fighting against enforcers in a civil war against Piltover. You guys simply want this series to be something it never was cause your fav character wasn't given enough screentime. I would say Ekko is probably one of my favorites and think his story and potential ability is very interesting and yet we have barely gotten 10 scenes with his character in both seasons. Cause he is more of a supporting/side character in this series.

[@ManiacForStorysyMusi]

I honestly don´t agree about us not seeing Caitlyn´s thought process. It´s all in her eyes. Right when you mention we should be shown the fact that she is conflicted in the training scene you show her clearly looking conflicted but trying to be subtle about it because she isn´t going to express that in front of her superior. Same thi ng with her encounter with Vi. We are focused on her expretion after she is told who they are really going after to show us that exact process. Before this season I rewatched season 1 so I am fairly certain of this. It´s a bit like how the third part of season 1 treats Jinx, we aren´t fully told about her thought process, but in the moments we see with her, we are at least shown that the gears are turning, which leads into the "family dinner" in the last episode. If anything I think the person the show should focus more on is Jinx. After she meets with Vander in episode 4 she imediatly goes to Vi... but why? I´m not saying that she wouldn´t do this, but after the last two times they met, her and Vi had their own declarations of "you are no longer my sister" I think it would have been important to show her thought process. Yes, none of them fully comit tto their declarations, but still. I think that´s what people mean when they talk about the pacing issues... It feels like there are chunks of some plotlines (including the main one with Vi and Jinx) that seem to be missing.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Yeah, I tried to keep playing that clip. The emotion is definitely there to spot, though I'm not entirely surprised a lot of people missed it

[@Maotrix-RandomGameStuff]

The reason she goes to VI is because of what she wanted she saw a chance to get her family back. Moreover, they both already had lost so much especially jinx that the fight with Vi where she wanted to die was like letting everything out. Both didn’t have more to let out they already lost basically everything. You can see they still keep their distance and still have issue but all that had to be said and done was done between them. Now the new conflict will be in how isha will affect jinx as a whole since she died. In the preview we see VI tells her her potential could be used for good but we don’t know for certain if this will happen. We can only wait

[@Maotrix-RandomGameStuff]

Also if I remember (correct me if I’m wrong) someone asked one of the creators this similar question and they answered saying all that had to be said was said. They basically already threw everything they had to say and do to each other and they no longer cared.

[@erenja3ger871]

You mostly said what i said particularly on caitlyn. Here is my comment on a different video "Cait betrayal was definitely rushed. They were definitely seeds planted such as the time maddie tried to convince her in the bedroom, the time where she asked ambessa why is peace always the justification for violence and disapproving of rictus actions. We also know she was actually still lenient with the undercity if what she told singed about the prison. But the above are just that, seeds. Nothing bloomed from it. All they needed was a single confrontation betweet caitlyn and ambessa where we are shown caitlyn absolutely rejecting ambessa philosophy in some form then the scene with vi would have been fine. But i believe it's because of the amount of seeds planted that I give it a pass. Vi and jinx getting together i remember thinking it was a good but at the same time thinking it would have fit better as a season 3 thing As for isha I can understand your point but I can't completely support. Jinx was already warming up to isha and by the end of ep3 even saves her. Silco also never got development with jinx. We just know they came close giving the time skip and i was fine with it" Here are my added thoughts. You mentioned caitlyn was mainly helping vander and not just stopping her war with the undercity but I just want to add that even that still appears as rushed. Because caitlin has doubts with ambessa but she definitely likes or accepts her more than disagrees with what his shown. Of course your additional scenes solves that problem but i just wanted to add why betraying ambessa can still be off to some people. But yeah mostly good points. The episode hit so damn well that it's flaws can be overlooked. Its just that it's arcane so everyone demands perfection to the point that any flaw taints the whole thing to some people

[@wrbk19]

You could clearly see Cait being unsure about Ambessa when they were training. The foreshadowing of her backstabbing Ambessa was when Ambessa was walking away after throwing Cait down, and then Cait stood up and attacked Ambessa while her back was turned. I don't know how clear cut you want it to be but actions always speak louder than words.

[@broadwaybroad]

“Act 1 had her establishing herself as a ruthless dictator” The problem is, they NEVER established this, people just ASSumed. She was put in a difficult situation of accepting Ambessa’s offer after seeing her save Piltover or reject it and piss off a Warlord. She didn’t go about wanting to Dictator anything. Both her and Ambessa were using each other; Ambessa for Cait’s connections and Cait to get Jinx and to keep her enemy close. We see Caitlyn pulling away from Ambessa incrementally from Episode 4. Seeing Vi was just the catalyst to get her to drop Ambessa entirely. The pacing is fine. Caitlyn’s character is the same one we got familiar with in Season 1. The problem is people can’t read emotions clearly and need things spelled out for them.

[@erenja3ger871]

She gassed niggas up using her mother's technology which is meant to make the undercity breathe. Is willing to shoot jinx with a child there and feels utterly betrayed by vi. It may not have shown her as a dictator but the end of act 1 gives a promise that a more ruthless character than what we initially we saw is coming. And you're trying pretend that didn't happen

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

They want their fan fiction to become reality and when it doesn't happen, they claim it's cause of pacing issues or the story now being plot driven rather than character driven. To me, the pacing has been not just good, but excellent. It's efficient and doesn't waste time on any unnecessary scenes.

[@Maotrix-RandomGameStuff]

@@nostalgicbliss5547exactly I saw a comment talking about this

[@Maotrix-RandomGameStuff]

@@nostalgicbliss5547here it is: Not all opinions are equally valid either. It's like people who complain about "balance" in a game but they actually just want it to be made easier. Some of criticism is just the everything-is-crap brigade that social media algorithms reward because that's the world we live in. Some of the criticism is because people didn't "like" what happens to a character - regardless of whether it is required from a storytelling perspective. Aka "I liked Isha, what happened to Isha made me feel sad, therefore ". Some criticism is because the focus is not on a character or plot point that someone isn't as interested in. Aka "I don't care about ‹character a > I want to know about ‹character b> and all this time devoted to ‹character a> is preventing me from finding out about < character b>, therefore ‹insert most popular criticism>". Or some people are soooo into the story they just want more more more. But then that runs in a practical issue the writers have to adapt a story to constraints of the media it is published in. i.e. they have to choose what to keep or cut from a limited series - and what to keep or cut is based on what benefits the story as a whole, not necessarily what some of the audience wants (writing a story is not a popularity contest). Aka "You're not going into excessive detail about everything I want so it's even though doing what I want would blow out the show into a 20-season epic". All those criticisms (except for social media grifters) are perfectly fine/normal btw - it's actually motivated by people liking the source content, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a valid criticism OF the source content either. Tldr - people don't get what they want. The trending criticism of Arcane this season is "pacing". Therefore people are blaming "pacing" for them not getting what they want - even if it has nothing to do with pacing. ‹because humans>

[@awhitney3063]

I'm amazed at how many people think characters can't be the type to have internal thoughts different than what they convey on screen. I feel like Caitlin was never gung-ho on being a Dictator, Ambessa clearly orchestrated and nudged her into it; she allowed it, waiting to see what would come of it, if it would get her what she thought she wanted. It didn't, and over time clearly she started to second guess Ambessa and her teachings; she even gives her pushback during their sparring match clearly showing that she doesn't see Ambessa as this pure mentor who she should emulate to be, but simply another person who has a different outlook that maybe she can get some value out of, but also maybe she can't. She's watching and waiting, trying to discern; it's a valuable character trait, but apparently one that is lost on some audiences. Caitlyn isn't like Vi, she's not going to wear her heart on her sleeve and make her allegiances obvious and plain, she's a chess player and y'all are acting like she's playing checkers.

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

And Caitlyn has been shown throughout the series to be very discerning and intuitive. We see it with her being able to figure out crime scene events like a puzzle.

[@emma2884]

100% this

[@emma2884]

​@@nostalgicbliss5547and she's also curious and willing to try a new approach when one hasn't worked.

[@martine5604]

I feel that when people argue that it isn't the 'pacing' that is the problem and then argue around the semantics around it they kinda miss the point, and I'm not entirely sure if this is done because people genuinely do not understand what people mean when they say 'pacing' or because its some sort of bad faith 'ha technically that words means something else if you look at it this way so I am not going to engage with the actual criticism' kinda deal. So once again, when people say pacing issues, they mean that we don't get as much time with these characters and their stories as we would like. Not that the story is moving too fast (or too slow, or that it doesn't make sense). Yes, we all knew Cait was going to end up on the other side again. Yes, that makes sense. Does that make it okay that they didn't give us any time with her in her role as an antagonist? That we didn't address her grief first, or that she seems to be fine enough around Jinx to not even really question working with her? To some, sure. To the people who complain about pacing: No. The criticisms are the same, some people just use different terms. For me, I feel like this season is good, but definitely not living up to season one. That season felt mostly character-driven, this one feels mostly plot-driven. Without the characters (what I think you call beats), the plot just feels emptier than before.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Mostly we agree, I think my only point of difference is that people fall on arguing "just add more episodes/more runtime" which would obviously help but not necessarily solve the "pacing" issues, because time and pacing are two distinct things, and also they have the amount of episodes they have. The limited time doesn't mean it's necessarily doomed to have flaws, there are still creative tweaks to the structure that help offset the difficulties

[@MI24CL3]

Preach ! To me that was the most off-beat aspect of it. Transitioning from a character-driven narrative where we are invested in the characters' journeys to focus on the plot-centric narrative around Arcane and Hextech and how it transforms Zaun and Piltover sort of side-tracks the character arcs as something that happen in resonance with the major plot but goes out of focus in season 2.

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

Season 1 already established the character dynamics, we don't need any extensive development from these characters in the final season. Her grief was literally addressed throughout act 1 lol. Plus who says she is fine with working with Jinx? She literally didn't even know she was there until Jinx saved her from Rictus. And she reacted shocked and appalled just before everything went to shit. The issue is you guys want to spend more time with the characters which is okay, but just say that, rather than make things up that clearly are not true. And to me, season 2 has been better than season 1 so far, both act 1 and 2, let's see how they wrap everything up.

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

@@MI24CL3 At the end of the day, the show is called ARCANE!! That was always going to be the main plot of the series combined with the Vi and Jinx story. The main players in this series are Vi, Jinx, Jace and Viktor. The rest are supporting and side characters.

[@RowanRayne]

They stated the theme of Caitlyn's story through Ambessa: "We've lost so many. The anger. The sorrow. It's tiring. I know it's tiring. But, you will never rest knowing that she's out there. Or maybe I underestimated you. Maybe you have the strength I do not. To forgive and trust in tomorrow. The decision is yours, commander." We're going to see that play out going forward. When Ambessa picked Caitlyn as commander, my wife said: "Oh, that was a mistake" precisely because Caitlyn has a good heart and a good head on her shoulders. Even if she stepped over the edge from time to time, I don't think she ever truly lost that nor did she lose her love for Vi.

[@Tonius126]

If Caitlyn suddenly stop her seeking justice on Jinx then it would be a huge letdown to an otherwise perfect show.

[@hitskwaad]

By this point, the grace I had for fans of a piece of media catastrophizing about how something "ruined" it has run dry.

[@jdjakdjsjd9906]

i thought arcane had avoided it but people always seem to find a way lol

[@mylittlethoughttree]

It's a tiny minority. There's always going to be some, and we live in an age of social media where you can't avoid them

[@thecod2345]

I wouldn’t say it’s ruined and we do have a third of the show left, but at least with what we have, I will say that s2 isn’t the near perfect masterpiece s1 was. It’s more of a flawed but great season so far, it’s just a shame it couldn’t keep that sky high bar going.

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

In some cases it’s sort of understandable or even partially justified. It is neither in Arcane’s case.

[@КристинаКрицкая-й7р]

Maddie quoted Cait in the first episode: "If every enforcer had a heart like yours we could bit Noxus itself". Damn, Cait was against Noxus from the start! How people can think that she is with Ambessa?

[@luke19etmp]

That was a very clear and beautiful analysis. I had similar recommendations to solve the "Caitlyn problem". I feel though that most of the criticism people are expressing has root in the 3 episode act publication format. The odience it's not detached cause of pacing, but because we are worried they wont be able to close all the plotlines in the last 3 episodes. We are losing focus cause the time is running out.

[@asthmajt0]

imo, what we see at the end of episode 3 (the flashbacks, the way the assasination unfolds) was actually in Caitlyn's head. since she has great deductive skills, she has already connected the dots and saw Ambessa's motive, but she couldn't make a good decision in that moment, so had to swallow the bitter pill and accepted the offer as commander. Caitler, but not really Caitler.

[@SajaVaccaro-l8w]

I 💯 agree with your small addition to the Vi/Caitlyn scene, it would go a long way to earning the payoff of Caitlyn “switching sides.” I agree, I still think it works as is, but if anything acknowledging the tension of past events sells the ruse even harder because it implies that Caitlyn has considered VI’s position and is too hurt/in too deep to back out, rather than it being about miscommunication or a lack of communication. It also lends more weight to VI’s trust monologue, because it would, again, show that Caitlyn is choosing to trust Vi over her own misgivings when the last time they spoke it was her essentially saying “I can’t trust you, you sided with Jinx.”

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Yeah, that's my thinking with it. Adds more tension but also more understanding, so people feel less thrown when the twist happens. At least that's my theory. You might write/animate the lines then realise they throw something else off in the story, but I think that little tweak works

[@FredrikHaugen]

Regarding Caitlyn my guess is that you have to understand who she is. She's a Kiramman. Kirammans are bred and trained to take control and command. The first act of the second season shows us this. But Caitlyn also has an investigative nature. She questions. But at the beginning of the second season she is thrown into the death of her mother and how she feels totally responsible for it since she didn't take the shot. She wasn't even aware of the independence treaty was even a thing at the moment. Another thing that is hinted is that no matter how Caitlyn tries to deny it. The Piltover view of Zaun is seeping in through the cracks of sorrow, regret and rage. At the council chambers she still pleads for them, but after the Zaunian attack at the monument mass she goes over the deep end. The problem here is that this is no longer the advocate for Zaun here anymore. She goes full enforcer mode with little to no regards of how many people she hurts or maim in her quest for revenge. See episode 3. Because that's the only red hot rage in her heart at the time. That's why she needs Vi. And does anything to keep her all the way to the prize. Including manipulating Vi's emotions by kissing her. She might lock lips with Vi, but her mind, and heart, is packed with the image of Jinx with a bullet hole in her skull. That's why she doesn't listen to Vi at the battle at the end of episode 3. She craved her pound of flesh which was unfilled. So with the heart festering with an unresolved vengeance, when Ambessa suggest that she become the de facto dictator for Piltover (Roman style dictator) she grabs for it to take down Jinx any way possible. So when act 2 rolls in at least a year has gone. The glowing hate has burned down to ember. Her old persona starts to shine through the smoke. You notice this with her questioning Ambessa and her ways. Caitlyn starts to realise that the time with the Noxian army is finite. There comes a time when they leave. She's been the figurehead of the Piltover oppression of Zaun. With bells on. The people of Zaun will not forget. You see her old investigating skills starts to light up, you see this when she visits Stillwater after the Warwick attack. This also starts to make her question what Ambessa really is after. That she wants to put the beast in cage and not put it down confirms her suspicions something is going on. So she meets Vi again. And in a way, uses Vi again. Vi's mission is to confirm Caitlyn's suspicions about Ambessa. As quid pro quo she'll help with protecting Vander/Warwick. Then Jayce comes and spoils it all.

[@EatTheRichAndTheState]

Right now i just think its fine but i reallylove your perspective, i hope on a rewatch i can see it like you

[@thatotherguy8138]

Too much of what happened in Act 2 happened "Off Screen". That, to me, is the biggest problem with Act 2. Zaun losing to Noxus. Caitlyn and Maddie becoming lovers. Jayce - everything about him. Viktor creating a new "Firelight" place in Zaun after we're shown and told how unique and impossible people thought the Firelight place was. The Black Rose infiltrating Piltover. Etc. Maybe we'll get flashbacks in Act 3 (and we likely will, with Jayce) but the rest, I think, we're just going to have to go with the time skip.

[@keiichi8191]

I've heard a lot of people try to justify Caitlyn's heel-turn and the lack of a real "dictator arc" by saying that it all happened in-universe during the time skip and therefor it isn't out of character because, by the time we're seeing her again in episode 4, she's already begun to mistrust Ambessa and is searching for a way out. Which essentially means that her whole fall-from-grace arc happened off screen. Which, I just...how does that make it better? It's not a character arc if we never see it happen.

[@alexanderbergstrom4405]

Caitlyn never did a heel turn. She started compromising and making bad calls, thats it. She never stopped caring about people, Zaunite or Piltie. She never became a warmonger, she has actively dissented the question during the whole show. She is exclusively focues her hatred on Jinx and the Chembarons. A focus/obsession which makes her call worse shots and partially blinds her, thats the isssue. If you believe she somehow fundamentally changed at some point in act 1 and decended into a moral abyss, either the dictator memes got to you or you projected something on the screen that wasnt there.

[@MI24CL3]

While it is hard to inagine Caitlyn completely turning over. You have to admit there's probable cause for confusion on the writer's side which played into the warmongering narrative by showing she was willing to bypass collateral damage on Isha to get to Jinx. While you could argue she trusts her own skills that much, an enforcer should still know better than that.

[@alexanderbergstrom4405]

@@MI24CL3 Her compromsing and putting on blinders in her pursuit of Jinx, especially at a critical moment is a part of Caitlyn issue, absolutely. That does not at all translate to her turning into a vindictive autocrat out to punish the people of Zaun as a whole. Never in act 1 did I see that either happening or about to happen. Caitlyn compromising and acting progressively more without caution, yes. Bloodthirsty and vindictive, absolutely not.

[@erenja3ger871]

It doesn't make it better. Personally I think they went too hard on ep3 so people feel cheated. But you know what, I'm starting to think it's not that much of a bad thing. Because we already saw caitlyn breaking the Geneva conventions from ep2 and 3. All we will get is this on a greater scale. Granted a part of me can't help but think they didn't show this to make us keep liking her which is not something I'm a fan of

[@erenja3ger871]

​@@alexanderbergstrom4405I don't believe you can completely fault anyone for thinking she made a face heel turn after the end of ep3. Jinx and the chembaron stopped being the only focus of her hate when the memorial was attacked. Jinx is just the main one. That's the problem with all this. Her mother got killed by zaunites and she felt her gf betrayed her. 100% everyone and their grandma would think she did a face heel turn after act 1 conclusion. But then as the video said, act 2 came and focused on different things and even did a time skip. The only reason I forgive it is because I think she would do what she did in zaun initially just on a greater scale.

[@FredrikHaugen]

The parts of Vander's backstory is already laid out in the first act of first season. Vander was known as the 'Hound of the Underground '. This is a fighter title. He has trained Vi in boxing since even before she and Powder lost their parents. The 'Hound' part alludes to 'feral' component of his fighting style. Never back down, huge levels of pain resistance and relentless and probably rather short tempered. So the beast he was transformed into probably aligned more with his inner self than you can imagine.

[@pink_parade2900]

I think my one complaint is just that I wanted MORE of Caitlyn’s villain Arc. Fingers crossed at 3 gives us a bit more

[@quigsthevicious]

I think the time to show Cait breaking with Ambessa is when the soldiers are told to prepare to attack a hippie commune. The deft way would be body language right then. A more overt way would be later when Vi asks "who's out there?", prompting Cait to explain she's with an army she doesn't control that's about to do something really bad. I also still hope to see Cait show regret at using the gray to avenge her mom since it perverted her mom's humanitarian work. Isha hurts my suspension of disbelief. She literally fell out of the sky to join the story and she's way too young to do any of the actiony stuff. It sucks cause the way Isha heals Jinx is beautiful.

[@khrystaliah]

I think the problem with cait, is the same as vi and jinx. Like yes vi would totally wanna team up with jinx for their dad. and jinx could totally get clear headed and be a big sister figure for a child. cait could find her way out of ambessas manipulation to save her lovers dad. Especially since she just lost her mom. But not at the break neck speed it seems to be happening with no clear time frame. And no communication between characters 😭😭

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

Nope. Everything makes sense cause the character dynamics have been set since season 1 and season 2 is literally picking off where season 1 left off. We already know about these characters and their mindset, personalities and values. We don't need extra scenes and episodes for those things.

[@jasonmarshall1626]

I keep thinking back to a line Jayce had in his discussion with Silco in S1 - if there was a "war" Piltover would CRUSH Zaun. So it would make sense (at least given the status quo at the time) that a Zaun "revolution" would be short lived / futile. They just don't have the resources. Piltover would just... put that shit down. That may all turn to shit in the last 3 episodes if the Jinx / Vi / Caitlyn / Jayce alliance goes to war more directly with Piltover to shut down Hextech. But it's unique in that all of the characters (Ambessa aside) recognize that all wars are crimes. They GET that. They don't seek that shit out. And it makes people who DO seem like sociopaths. Which they are.

[@Strix2031]

Theres another issue maybe more with Ambessa than Cait, the story says multiple times that Ambessa actually trusts Caitlyn and maybe even sees her as a protegé. But we are told thar, Caitlyn says Ambessa taught her so much, Ambessa says Caitlyn is kin and Rictus says that Caitlyn's death will be a deep cut. But we barely see why Ambessa would ever trust her for a second, she is aways somewhat hostile to Ambessa.

[@liviafriedmann2511]

I think Ambessa doesn't mind being challenged, she seems to respect people who stand their ground against her... since Mel completely pushes her (and her way of seeing the world) away and Kino is dead, she has no one interested in her legacy, other than Cait, possibly... Cait seems not to reject her teachings outright, even when she doesn't agree with them. I wouldn't go as far as to say Ambessa sees her as some sort of a stepchild, but she seems to enjoy the fact that Cait is somewhat receptive to what she has to offer... She probably feels at least somewhat misunderstood among the "Piltover softies" and she might not ever show it, but she must be pretty lonely

[@biosignature1087]

My little pet theory is that there's nothing wrong with Cait's arc. As you say, it is functional and she stays true to everything we would expect Caitlyn to do, so why does everyone including myslef think it was odd. I think it's because Cait's promotion to Commander and the inactment of martial law wasn't done in the Enforcer office, but instead the way it was at the end of episode 3. What actually happened was VERY different from what the visuals made (seemingly literally) everyone think happen. Cait just became [insert your favorite authoritarian dictator here]. Which upon reflection is clearly not the case and while Piltover does become an oppresive police state, it's nowhere near what we as the audience would have expected based on the symbolism of that scene. As awesome and cool as the end of episode 3 was, I think it's the primary cause of the issues we all seem to have with Cait, and if it wasn't in the show or hanlded much differently, I don't think the audience would have had the same reaction to act 2 Cait. The symbolism of the scene just seems to have completely overriden all our expectations of Cait's character, even if her arc is perfect reasonable and within character. We all expected Caitlyn the dictator doing horrible things and what we got was just Caitlyn with more resonsibility. I think if you remove the scene at the end of act 1 or replace it with something less "She's going full Nazi", you have very few issues around Cait's arc, though you could just reasonably ask you didn't she just shoot Jinx the moment she had the chance.

[@pilotman463]

Its not the pacing, it's actually a slower act. But it doesn't use that time to focus on the things it should have Cause Caitlyn is just one of these examples

[@mylittlethoughttree]

This is exactly the wording I was looking for but failing to find, thank you! More runtime would obviously help solve some issues but it doesn't magically fix pacing, that requires better structure and focus

[@mstrikerwildrift]

Season 2 suffers from writers changing too much from the original plan. If Riot didn't decide to meddle with how the lore of Arcane is portrayed, we definitely could've have a better and more concise story to match the first season.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

The story of Arcane was planned out from the start. Riot deciding they're going to prop up Arcane after the fact doesn't mean that this isn't still the original plan for Arcane's story. It takes a long time to make animation like this, though we're only getting it now this story has been written out for a long time.

[@lorcejay2596]

I agree

[@hitskwaad]

This is the perfect example of how the accusation that 'an adaptation was ruined by meddling' is tossed around lazily. Animation categorically isn't subject to the hasty reshoots that actors can go through. It's the least likely reason you didn't like the season by far, and you latch onto it anyway.

[@ZakaiRooks]

What are you talking about??? I agree that some stuff needed more time to develop, but this season expands on the family aspect; Caitlyn has always been secondary, or a supporting character which is why this isn’t strange, I’m glad they focused on the characters and plot lines that really matter because the story is on a tight schedule and that is wrapping up. Act 2 of season two is my second favorite act of the whole show with Act 3 season 1 being first. The writing is still great and cohesive and the pacing is not the problem

[@theturkey4018]

I've not visited your channel but I can tell you cover a lot of books or comics just by you saying the 'reader' should be invested at the 0:48 mark lol We're watchers now😂 Keep up Like the video though Edit: Looks like I was wrong. Guess it was just a slip up. I'm no Sherlock Holmes lol

[@DarkHarlequin]

Here is the thing, I think we can make a lot of arguments about details. Like is it rushing or is it choosing your moments with limited time? Is it not showing us everything or is it trusting the audience that you don`t need to spell every single thing out for them (one of Arcanes best qualities imo)? Maybe both? But here is my steadfast rule for Film (and series): IF YOU NAIL THE CORE EMOTIONAL & THEMATIC BEATS EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY! I apologize for the caps comments don`t have bold 😅 but for me that`s the central most important thing. As you say "what about what does work?" I think we get a bit lost in the internet dissection, takes, opinion instant culture we`re in now and to an extend that`s fine. I also have fun watching analysis videos and talking about Arcane a lot. But in the end, in a year or two, my experience is that all the nitpicks and small stuff and ´mixed opinions´ will be forgotten if the central beats work. And imo Arcane NAILS it`s central thematic and emotional beats every time 🤗

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Perfectly put

[@TheFixer_1]

Oh I think it's a given that Caitlyn & Vi are going to have to hash it out, and the teaser for Act 3 points to this.

[@julesdubi4312]

Amazing video

[@ursidae97]

There's a difference between a show that is fast paced because they want to tell a massive story in a small amount of time, and because they have to FINISH a story before you can't anymore. I'm completely happy with the artists doing whatever they feel they need to do, i just wish we could tell them they can have all the time they need to do exactly what they want, because they've proven they deserve it. But in the little time we have left together i can tell them "Don't cry. You're perfect." .... See what i did there? 🤣 Anyway, season 1 is better because it's a perfect story beginning to end, but I'm honored to have received season 2 for all the beautiful moments.

[@shovelenthusiast7389]

Remember: The showrunners are good at subverting our expectations

[@dried.dandelion7274]

Let's be so for real right now, Arc 2 felt like an AO3 fanfic. All that happened makes sense but like, on paper? We don't see all this logic on screen, we're making it all up post-factum so that it makes sense. Arc 1 ended with a lot of loose ends that were subsequently just waved away in Arc 2, and that's why the whole thing doesn't work. It seems like everything that we were looking forward to seeing in Arc 2 just happened off-screen, and now we're making up all these explanations for why who did what. The shock of Cait becoming a new dictator in Arc 1 led to.. actually no real showed actions from her side in Arc 2: we were never SHOWN how far she's willing to go, we were sorta TOLD swiftly in that 2 min music recap at the beginning that's she's with the bad guys now. Or that big epic fight scene between Vi and Jinx in Arc 1 that led to absolutely nothing cuz in Arc 2 they just randomly meet and agree to team up? Like, didn't they spend the whole Arc 1 looking for her, and then she just randomly appears and suddenly Vi is ok with it? The same thing with Cait/Vi break up. It was so brutal and gut-wrenching and put Vi in such a dark place that.. lasted 2 min max on-screen? And then she's suddenly over it, and when they reunite it's just a silly exes energy coded scene? Like, how are we supposed to believe in any of it? Idk, to me it seems like the writers didn't agree on which direction this season was supposed to take cuz the whole thing feels chaotic af. And not because of the pacing but because the plot structure suddenly flops. Perhaps, there should have been more seasons after all

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

Never saw Vi and Caitlyn's so called break-up as brutal and gut-wrenching. It was obvious there was still love there and Cat was just pissed in the moment. She literally had no chemistry with Maddie and was already doubting Ambessa and her philosophy, all this was spelled out pretty clearly. Cat never became a dictator, she was pressured into that role and decided to use it to get Jinx, but never planned to become this ruthless person.

[@t2nexx561]

Tbh Caitlin had no tyrannical inclination towards her reign so whats to atone for. Im more in favor of Jinx receiving major repercussions because she's literally a cold blooded murdering terrorists but because zuan idealized her actions thanks to Isha she's looked at like a hero. I mean Cait fights for peace more than Jinx does yet Cait gets the hate for some reason.

[@cluster_f1575]

I tend to agree. As much as I've been enjoying seeing a softer, more playful side of Jinx this season, people tend to forget she's done A LOT of bad things last season she still needs to atone for (namely the murder of Piltover enforcers, councilmen & even some members of the Firelights).

[@vatsal_garg]

All cops are bastards, Caitlyn also comes from a position of massive privilege. Fuck her and all her cronies. Vi is also not immune to this criticism, she is in fact the personification of police brutality in LoL.

[@umbraccoon]

@@cluster_f1575 Yup. Jinx needs to burn.

[@felipecouto1102]

The real thing for me is how much of Act 2 for Caitlyn was entirely based on *Telling* instead of *Showing* , when her Act 1 was MASTERFUL in Showing instead of Telling. Act 1 Showed her escalation, with Vi as her only stopgap, for her to then throw Vi away and have a followup scene of her immediately being granted power, to enact *anything* she wanted, AFTER ditching the person that was holding her back... people saying other viewers misunderstood it feel like they are watching another show, because they always talk about how controlled and conscious she was at the last scene in Act 1, when nothing points to that. Then Act 2 tells us she doesn't trust Ambessa. It tells us she doesn't want to be violent, it tells us she goes against Ambessa at almost every decision... for a show that let's its characters face the consequences of their actions in such a raw way, that let Vi hit child Powder because of her grief, Jayce kill a child out of his rage, or Viktor kill Sky accidentally on his desperation, it tries *very hard* to not portray Caitlyn as actually committing bad acts in THE moment where she held the most grief, the least restraint and the most power.

[@chrishaven1489]

I had no problem with Caitlyn siding with Vi. That all made sense to me. They've always had a connection and I don't think either of them would have discarded that connection, despite their initial break-up. But personally, I really wish we would've seen more of dictator Caitlyn instead of having that arc rushed through a music montage. That's a little disappointing

[@reduxxedr]

For me, Caitlyn never fully trusted Ambessa. Caitlyn was totally still out for Jinx, and her doubts express the only reason she still was with Noxus is because of Jinx. Every time Cait talked to Ambessa, the atmosphere was as if she is just pretending or have this weird way of "respect." The best example is when Cait walks into Singed's lab where he and Ambessa were. They address each other formally, saying "General" and "Commander". But the way Cait's facial expression and body language just feels different than a mutual thing of respect.

[@cattievogelsong96]

This is something i have noticed. She is close to some stereotypical female tropes and many mossed the nuance. Of the places she differs from these more predictable archetypes. Which is one reason that season two has been strange for fans. Personally i still really like Caitlyn. I still find her compelling. Even if i wish they did more with the morally questionable military dictator set up. Lots of potential skipped over.

[@technewsfortechnoobs]

Ok…I am apparently WAY to upset/obsessed with this Cait/Maddie moment to let it go…so after many, MANY views, here is what I am seeing now… The very first time Maddie speaks…”Up again?”, Cait seems to have a look on her face like, “Ugh.,..you’re still here???” After that, Maddie tried to hold Cait…and Cait pulls away. Then Maddie tries kissing her with what I am sure is genuine affection for Cait…and as soon as she gets to her neck, Cait’s expression is just “Nope! Not going there!” and pulls away AGAIN! And THEN…Maddie tries to get Cait to see herself as Maddie does….and Cait just gets up and walks away! Then…we have what Cait says. “I never expected this to go on so long. I don’t…I don’t know what I though. Just…it wasn’t this.” Maddie thinks Cait is talking about the Zaun situation and everything, but Cait was CLEARLY also referencing what was going on between them. Cait is NOT invested in things as Maddie is. Maddie is ABSOLUTELY head over heels for Cait…just as Vi is. But at the same time, Maddie also has a bit of “hero worship” going on. It is clear that she will probably do anything Cait says, follow her anywhere, do anything to support her. She wants Cait to see what she sees so much, to support her, to be whatever she needs that she might just be totally oblivious to the fact that she is the rebound….and that is not going to end well for her. Did Maddie do anything wrong…no. Did Cait? Technically…no. But at the same time, this is NOT the relationship anyone wanted to see play out. I am also to the point of thinking after Ambessa told Vi that her absence “left a vacuum for her to fill”….so at this point I would be 0% shocked if Ambessa didn’t somehow manipulate them into getting together to begin with, despite her advice on “professional entanglements”, because lets be honest....she did NOT look surprised to see her there at all! And as much as I still try to logic my way out of it…I still get physically ill seeing this scene play out between these two.

[@sabrina0013]

What I don't understand is why the writers insisted on trying to surprise us with the double cross. It's not the first time this season has retroactively explained something that happened by giving us backstory they could have just shown us beforehand (e.g. Ambessa goading Renni or Caitlyn learning about the gray). We didn't need the fake tension of "surely Cait didn't turn in Vi, right?" Why not be more straightforward and show us Caitlyn and Vi talking about Vander? Show Caitlyn slowly warming up to the idea, give us better insight into her headspace, have Vi or Cait point out that this might be their only chance to pull one over on Ambessa. I just feel like we were robbed as an audience of a nice, loving scene where the girls gradually realize they can be on the same team again. Instead that character beat happens offscreen. Why? For the main romance in the show? It makes no sense.

[@elektra.8]

Sometimes I wonder if people watch the show with a blindfold on or something. The show wants you to look carefully at the characters’ faces and reactions to understand the story correctly. Cait was never a true dictator. She never trusted Ambessa. When Ambessa gave her control of the city, she saw an opportunity to avenge her mother. After a few months, she realized it wasn’t working, and Ambessa was doing too many things that went against what she believed in. So, when Vi gave her an opportunity to do something right and maybe get rid of Ambessa in the process, she took it. She is still the same person as in season 1. Obviously I’m simplifying things because I don’t want to write an essay about it but I don’t think there is any problem with how this storyline was written.

[@nostalgicbliss5547]

I just feel like most of these so called fans have been obsessing over this show for 3 years, theorizing about things they made up in their own heads, that they want the show to fulfil their fan fiction. The only criticism that makes sense to me is spending a little more time on Darth Caitlyn and showing how the martial law in Zaun began, with Caitlyn becoming more doubtful of Ambessa's methods. The show has already shown Caitlyn to be very discerning and intuitive, we see this in season 1 and season 2 when she is looking over crime scenes, she quickly puts things together and usually comes to the right conclusion, at least when she is not clouded by emotions. I can understand people wanting to spend more time with these characters and fleshing out all the storylines, but season 2 to me has been the epitome of efficient storytelling. No wasted scenes used for filler content or unnecessary fan service. There are also people that want their hands held through everything, those types will always complain when things are not spoon-fed to them.

[@Thatchaoticelf]

Kaitlyn’s storyline isn’t bad at all just very rushed and if they try to put her and vi back together I’m gonna be pissed

[@xBobTheGamerx]

Fuck this show is so god damn good

[@chrishaven1489]

I don't think you're giving Isha enough credit. Perceiving Jinx as a hero doesn't have to be a product of naivety. I think it's an endearing feedback loop that feeds into Jinx's improved state of mind. Jinx is a hero.....to Isha. Isha's emulation of Jinx's "heroism" for me feels like a proof of concept that Jinx can be a force for good in this world, instead of the Jinx she constantly sees herself as

[@mookerz1383]

Is it just me, or is "The Grey" obviously green? Is this like a... is this dress white and gold or black and blue kinda situation? Or do I just not understand colors?

[@chrishaven1489]

If you have to add beats to make a story make more sense, then it most definitely is a pacing issue. The show's still fantastic, but it still has issues

[@lolabee1825]

Ngl Caitlyn is arcanes WORST character she frustrates me

[@broadwaybroad]

She’s the best tbh Isha was unnecessary.

[@Sope-gj2ki]

Idk the pacing seem fine in season one to me compared to season two still love the show buts it’s not as good as season one to me

[@cadillacdeville5828]

You're ❤❤❤

[@mrglassscience]

I think the problem is that season one was too good

[@logandavis7528]

"make it clearer in the training scene that Caitlyn is questioning Ambessa" bro she literally stabs Ambessa from behind while Ambessa is doing a monologue about treachery. Caitlyn isn't still deciding in that moment, she's looking for an opportunity to make a move.

[@snowman1185-v]

[@krystalhelpmeez666]

38 mintue

[@whichhunter7087]

I wish instead of saying "im saving my dad" she would have said "That beast is my dad and Im trying to save him". Its like so many plot beats are missing proper bridges

[@umbraccoon]

Cait: "We tracked some sort of new chemweapon down here. A bloodthirsty murderous beast." Cait: "What are you doing here?" Vi: "It's... not a weapon... It's my dad." Cait: "What do yo- Vi: "I brought him here trying to save him... Someone did that to him, changed him! But he's still in there, inside the beast."

[@juliuskavaliauskas5316]

i just hate that they introduce a new character like Isha just to kill her off, feels really cheap

[@mstrikerwildrift]

It is, that's why they did it. They wanted something fast and cheap.

[@Syncratci]

So like Mylo and Claggor, or Benzo, or Grayson, or even Markus.

[@mstrikerwildrift]

@Syncratci did you even understand his comment? Read it again, slowly.

[@theturkey4018]

​@Syncratci Those didn't feel as cheap because the show had just started, there wasn't already an established main cast, so those were surprising. The death flags with Isha were a little too clear

[@juliuskavaliauskas5316]

@@theturkey4018 exactly