Archery Coach Josh Jones Talks 4 VANES vs 3 VANES

[@ElkShape]

What would you all like to hear from JJ next?

[@Bigtrain1]

Elk Shape just keep talking about the technical aspects of the arrow and bow. Most of us have a good working knowledge but lack the technical expertise.

[@darrind8697]

What outsert is he using on his arrows ??

[@csrmrno7]

How do you lock down the Hamskea Trinity with a Mathews? The lock down screws don't match actually sit on the riser so just wondering what to do in a situation like that.

[@USAFTACP]

Speed limit for arrows, broadheads vs mechanicals? Is higher speed too much or not enough?

[@jasondlion]

I would love to hear him on diving in on the whisker biscuit vs a full containment like qad vs a top end limb driven hunting setups. I hunt with a whisker for the fact it doesn't fall out but really have been thinking about changing

[@martincheetah]

No gimmicks, no snake oil, just common sense technical info. Loved it.

[@ElkShape]

thanks homie !

[@archerash6695]

Also. Thank you to you both for all you do for the archery community.. it's greatly appreciated 🏹

[@finnishfatman]

All my arrows have 3 vanes. And you just explained the reasons well enough 👌My arrows will continue to have 3 vanes.

[@perryknetter8577]

Great Job Josh your knowledge is so remarkable 👏 Thank you

[@joshkraut3901]

Love the explanation, and agree. I have slow motion videos of my 4 fletch and 3 fletch in my spotting scope at 80yards and you can’t see the vanes spinning on the 3 fletch they are so fast on impact. The 4 fletch is noticeably slower.

[@hootiesfilms6446]

The background music in this video is awesome lol. Makes the whole discussion so epic.

[@juliusmeyer24]

New intro is much shorter which means it is much better.

[@ElkShape]

cool cool!

[@Bluesplayer789]

These guys speak a lot of sense. 👍

[@ElkShape]

try to!

[@soosay11]

Its all your own Preference, its what works for you. Some things may work better for you the others. Experiment with what you can.

[@nickfarrell429]

Somebody who’s in my first year of archery a lot of this talk is so technical for me. I never realized how detailed you can get with arrows. I’m finally starting to get pretty consistent but I see all this information out there telling me I need this era with this fletching this weight vs that weight. The size arrow or that size arrow. I think I’ll just stick with my three fletch Easton bully veins for now they seem to be working fine for me because I’ve been improving. And I’m shooting my affordable 6.5 inch carbon arrows from Easton for now.

[@douglash.8862]

It's hard to Beat, a 3 Fletch, 3 Degree, Helical, set-up to FOLLOW,.. YOUR Bows, "Arrow Clocking" ( Left or, Right handed, Fletch ) IMO Be sure to Pick, the Right Vanes, remember you will need, a Bit longer Vane with,.. Fixed, B-H's like, the 2.7 inch, AAE Max Stealths or, VaneTec's 2.88" Swifts

[@adamimberti6948]

I have found a lot of the fine details are exactly that, fine details.... they make small improvements that matter more and more the more experienced you get. You can shoot plenty accurate with an arrow that is spined correctly through a tuned bow at normal distances. Work on your form and technique first and foremost, get an arrow that shoots well for you and then hone in on the details over time.

[@zb5715]

So much knowledge dropping here! Need one on releases!

[@ElkShape]

good call

[@ruebencaballero9511]

Good stuff guys. I’m shooting a 3 fletch for my elk set up, but for south Texas whitetail and exotics I love the way the 4 fletch groups. Shorter distances but for sure running a 3 fletch for longer shots

[@ElkShape]

word up RUEBEN ! Whatever groups for you is definitely what you should run

[@flatcreek6988]

Love these videos from JJ!

[@ElkShape]

JJ is a gangster, and he has a channel now too!

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Have y'all chronod at distance with the different setups? I'd be curious to see how much that big helical slows down the arrow, if any.

[@ElkShape]

chrono video coming, one of our good buds just got one

[@altonimorgan]

Since seeing your comment I did that this morning . I shoot a 81 lb Hoyt spyder turbo 27” draw axis 300 5mm 26” long with a 25gr half out 100 grain point . 4 fletch 2.88 swift vane out of John Dudley bitzenburger set up . Vs 3 blazer vanes same jig as there using at 10’ both shot 297 at 60 yards 262-263 FPS 4 vane 264-265blazer . So just in my test not a whole lot of difference and impact is in same groups . These guys are awesome I learn something every video .

[@stevehall4130]

Very nice content. Thanks JJ and Spokane Valley Archery. Was going to experiment with 3 vs. 4 fletch. Now I won’t mess with it! Keep the applicable content coming. Thanks!

[@ElkShape]

Still worth experimenting to see what groups for your rig.. try to keep the weight down for sure

[@gmow99]

Love these technical videos!!! Keep it up! However it was really cool in this video to see some actually physical testing with the topics discussed!

[@ElkShape]

thanks G

[@randysanders6620]

Busting on the ranch fairy I see...lol my question is the fletching noise. Have your tested this and if so which fletching would be the quietest? Just trying to reduce noise that a deer or elk may hear before arrival. Thanks!

[@mikemesserer8532]

Dude your killing me here. Have played with six different arrow fletch configurations this spring. Bare shaft spins left so switched to left 2 deg

[@mikemesserer8532]

At 2 degree left four fletch they fly the best so far out to 45. After turkey season will shoot longer and spend more time on three fletch before Elk Shape CO.

[@ElkShape]

that's cool man, you'll figure out what works best!

[@bromma1979]

Great info 👍 going to hit a 3 Fletch. Thanks

[@ElkShape]

word, shoot what groups best for you and your setup

[@donovanstockton44]

Elk Shape videos are becoming my favorite channel! JJ sounds like the voice over on MythBusters. His technical knowledge is insane and super practical. Please do more training videos for weights, we all need some motivation for strength training. I have been a Mathews shooter since the Halon 32. Is it my imagination or is the VXR 31.5 have the stiffest draw by far? My theory is that with the limbs now so parallel the cams and string are taking on the power load and there's no give on the limbs. I called Mathews and they said the Vertix and VXR should have the same draw but that is simply not the case with my bows.

[@BoomtownOutdoors]

I just want to tell you that I really enjoy your videos! Like you, I am just learning how to work on bows myself and having someone like Josh is sooo valuable! I have a couple of really good guys helping me learn but they are in different states so I use Facetime to learn. It would be awesome to have someone like Josh local to me!!!!! Keep doing what you do Good Sir! We will keep watching cuz it is AWESOME!!!!!

[@ElkShape]

We are super blessed to have Josh and him willing to come on the channel - thanks for your support

[@BoomtownOutdoors]

@@ElkShape heck yeah! Thank you for what you are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Gpb17]

I know this video is a little older, but I was hoping you could tell me why you chose a left hand helical vs a traditional right hand helical? Thanks for the great content!

[@colety04]

it depends which way your string is spinning ur arrow out of the bow. if it spins left you use a left helical, spins right you use right

[@KhanTorted]

Came here because I've never seen a 4 fleched arrow till a couple KZbin shorts ago. Wanted to know why you'd want a 4 flecher arrow. Was instead amazed by this mans understanding of aerodynamics. 😂

[@stevenpritchard4427]

So much information thankyou guys.

[@austin_olsen]

I’ve always been told to run a 4 fletched with fixed broad heads and run 3 fletched with mechanical. Time to tinker I guess. ABT

[@KursRage]

Thank you Gentlemen! 🙏

[@waynedexter7295]

Hell Josh. Thanks man. Never heard it explained like that 👍👍

[@ElkShape]

Any time!

[@gmow99]

Should compare something short like a four fletch blazer or 2 in tac vane vs the aae max. I prefer something a bit lower profile than blazers but this would be a more accurate test cause each fletch will have less drag and keep the same and even REDUCE weight as those aae max are very heavy. Would be a good chance to correct the left vs right helical issue as you should keep the direction consistent to ensure results are as driven by the factor you are really trying to test to help test validation

[@ElkShape]

Yes good points

[@shepherd8203]

3 vans got the spin makes sense. The question what Broad head 2 or 3 blade? It made sense 3 blade to match the vans. I do like the Iron Will which has 2 .

[@SkillswithScot]

Great video, was just debating refletching my arrows for 4 vanes. Good to know.

[@zhickman338]

Has Josh ever tried to tune a bareshaft with a broadhead? Also has he ever paper tuned fixed blade broadheads with lipstick?

[@ryanwest7304]

Can you get a parachuting effect when you have a higher FOC and a big helical (3-vane)?

[@brettu45]

Feathers. They steer well, weigh less than a grain. What does Josh think about feathers?

[@ElkShape]

good ? for JJ

[@hectorleon5890]

Would be great if you guys could make a video explaining the top-hat tuning process that Coach jones mentioned with the laser. Keep up with the great work !

[@dwightbrown2808]

Just for the sake of experiment I wonder what would happen if you tried longer Mylar spin wings or spider vanes? I’ve never heard of anyone using them for hunting but it might be worth a try.

[@jamespitts4080]

I know this is an older video but did you ever try a 4 fletch fletched on the left helical ez fletch jig you use for the 3 fletch?

[@michaelcobb3935]

I’m just curious why you didn’t compare helical on both. Helical has always beat offset when I’ve tried it 3 or 4 fletch

[@archerash6695]

Huge fan. New bow tech here.. lol What is Josh running for Fletch pitch? Running.. Mathews V3-27 Carbon Express Red's 350 spine. (Right Hand shooter) My arrows are custom ordered but they don't seem to even know.. lol Looks like 2° I'm thinking.. (right helical) Thanks.. I'm dying to know 🏹

[@_DeFiNiTeLy_Not_BrAd_]

The question is then, how much vane do you need to stabilize a fixed blade broad head in a 3 fletch configuration?

[@jameshinson8552]

Josh. Can you shell cams at full draw with a straight edge instead of laser? If there’s no space on top or bottom of both cams then your achieving what your talking about right?

[@robertparenti6265]

If I’m not mistaken, won’t your broadheads start to unscrew once they hit an object? It makes sense the arrows come off turning left, you’d want to keep that natural rotation. In a target archery scenario I can’t see it being a problem, but in a hunting scenario, now your loosening the broadhead as the arrow is passing through the animal. Can’t see how that’s a good thing? Just my thoughts.

[@ElkShape]

they do a touch from time to time, has never been a problem on an animal.. a smidge of blue loctite is supposed to be the cure

[@apbt8220]

I use string wax on the threads and it works great.

[@Logan-zz5vg]

Left single bevel broadhead turns with the arrow so no issues and any other broadhead no issues realize the arrow would have to turn alot with the broadhead staying still to unscrew all the way the arrow will be through the animal in 1 maybe 2 turns so literally impossible to unscrew

[@nopechucktesta77]

I should buy a bow. I've seen a few Moose around Spokane. It's legal to hunt on Spraque ave right!?

[@ladouxcrew]

Did you test any different profile height configurations with 3 vs 4???

[@ElkShape]

A few - nothing formal though

[@AlexTroska]

What exactly would you say the degree of helical and offset is on the 3 fletch, I currently run a 3 degree left helical 4 fletch with a slight offset that groups great but I would love to experiment with your setup.

[@ElkShape]

approx 3 to 4 degrees... Arizona EZ fletch

[@rlsparky701]

Great content guys, quick question. Mathews Triax 26.5” draw 70lbs. Shooting a Black Eagle 26” Rampage 100grain insert 100grain tip 350 spine. I am getting a 1/2” straight low tear bare shaft from 10 yards away from the paper. Diving me nuts!!! How do I correct that. Do not want to move my rest.

[@fightthelies4349]

Rotate knock, shoot, rotate, shoot. I've fixed a 1.5" tear just by rotating. There are lots of vids that can show you. Just type in knock tuning

[@williammurphy491]

Dan Sir; Do you know where MFJJ acquired his wrist band. Thank you.

[@Bigtrain1]

Shooting 31.5 Matthew's, 31 inch draw. Arrows spine 300 /black eagle rampage Foc with 200 grain up front. My most accurate in cross wind and deepest Penertrating arrow at 80yds is a 2.5 heat vane, two degrees helical four flech. 11/4 inch down from rear of the shaft. As I type I'm looking at eight different work ups, three fletch, off set, 1 to 3 degrees helical etc. I keep my fps between 275 /280 by adjusting draw weight 74 /67 and arrow weight. Any faster my accuracy decrease. Total weight of arrow 493 /534 with 493 grain as my (elk)hunting arrow. What am I missing?

[@Wspatch1987]

Jack Whaley have you tried going to a 250 spine arrow, I think most spine calculators would recommend 250 or 200 for high poundage 70 + lbs at 31 inches. I would think it would have to do with spine when you say as you go up in speed accuracy decreases. That’s where I would start, does your arrows still tune through paper and bare shaft when you go up in poundage?

[@Bigtrain1]

Wspatch1987 the arrows are cut 29.5 but my draw is 31. The stiffer spine didn't seem to preform as well at distance. The draw weight now is 68, 493 grain arrow 279 fps. I normally never have to get above 72 and that's with the 534 grain. One more thing I've found is that I set my slider black gold 5 pin sight with the 493 g arrow then use the slider in pratice to match the draw and arrow weight. Usually only have to move it 1/3yds for all pins. Avoids constantly resetting of the sight.

[@Bigtrain1]

Richard Christopher thanks, my Matthew at 70.4 lbs 31 inch draw shots a 481 grain arrow 285 fps. The reason for the speed adjustment is for arrows planning any faster than about 285. I shoot a fixed broad head, not a single person I know shoots mechanical (15 serious backpacking idiots😁) that's why I watch my speed. Old rotator cuff surgery at times plays a role. The Foc I prefer is 16, I've shot 7 arrows at 6 bulls, one came back for seconds. All have been eaten. That's 10 yrs of bow hunting, let three rag horns walk but from now on they die because those yrs I went hungry.

[@chrisochoa1222]

@@Wspatch1987 I like Elk Shape videos but the guy who owns the shop rubs me wrong because he is saying lots of things that are not completely true regarding lots of topics. I find it odd not one time have they brought up archers advantage which you could eliminate all speculation on wraps and so on and ensure you get the ideal spine and speed. Speed affects spine as well so you could be dead on spine at 260 fps but not 290. Its much more complicated. So many great archers recommend or shoot 4 fletch and do NOT advocate large helical to avoid parachuting at long range. Levi Morgan and Ulmer both talk about this often.

[@michaelficarro2591]

@@chrisochoa1222 agreed, all of a sudden he's a PHD is aerodynamics....

[@KowboyUSA]

Looks like an Apex Gear Reactor XL quiver. Just ordered one. How's it holding up?

[@herbbrewer4441]

I don't know if you have covered this in another video or not. What's the easiest way to tell the direction my arrow is spinning to the left or right. Thanks for your help.

[@jlipstraw45]

Shoot a bare shaft at your target at about 5 yards but before you shoot make a marker mark on your arrow by your nock then omce you shoot you will see which way that arrow turned by where your mark is either to the left or right

[@dougmillsdesigns]

What kind of jig was used to fletch the 3 fletch helical?

[@ElkShape]

az ez fletch

[@brettu45]

@@ElkShape the mini or the new "true helical"?

[@ElkShape]

Not the mini 👍🏼

[@badlandoutdooradventures5473]

Serious question. Does it matter how far back or forward you fletch from the nock end of the arrow? is farther back or forward better?

[@Mrcdwilliams]

Does this (4 fetch vs 3 fetch) effect (crosswind vs direct flight) on a much longer and heavier hunter arrow set up? Asking as I average 9.4 - 9.7 using Bohning Zen 4-fletch on an Easton FMJ Dangerous Game 250 with a 100-grain tip. Overall arrow weigh is 776.8- grains. Bow: G5 Prime Logic CT9, RH 70# @ 32”DL. Thanks.

[@gabrielhouston5660]

New Intro is Legit!

[@ElkShape]

thanks homie!

[@mattconroy3918]

what situation would you use 4 fletches or is it just a flex, does 4 fletch correct faster for short distances. I heard he was shooting from 70. 20 yards would be interesting unless u know the awnser.

[@bridgerrand7068]

I have a question for the people, I want to get into bow hunting this year and I've had a bow since I was 15 years old. I'm 22 going on 23 now. My phone is pretty well tuned up and strong enough to kill an animal but when I go to shoot farther shots that being 60 yards my grouping is awful that being said I only buy the cheap prefixed arrows from Sportsman's Warehouse is that wrong of me and if so do I need to look into a bigger investment Arrow wise?

[@bradwilliams7706]

What are your thoughts on Tac vanes driver 2.75?

[@dbuckner902010]

What is his opinion on shooting feathers ?

[@Njjb122]

Personally I would never use max stealth vanes in a 4 fletch configuration not sure why anyone would thats too much Weight and surface area on the back end if you would of put max pro , pm 2.0 , of even pm 23s you would of had better results

[@ptinne]

How many degrees of helical does that 3 fletch have?

[@ElkShape]

5ish

[@douglash.8862]

Three Degrees of Helical works, Fine and HAS, much LESS,.. "Parachuting" and SLOWING of the Arrow at, Longer Distance's BUT,. Heavy Poundage ( 70 lb.+ ) Fast Bows with, Heavy, high FOC Arrows, "seem to like", the 5-6 Degree, Helical Fletch,.. better ! The LT-1, Ariz E-Z Fletch, works awesome for, Me,.. in 40 to 60 lb Bows and Medium Weight Arrows ( with, NO more than, a 50 Grain FACT, up Front ). and about, 450 grain Total, Arrow Wt.,.. MAX.

[@colinbrandys1382]

What jig did you use to put the vanes on with that much twist?

[@adamvisser9815]

What is the recommended finished weight of an arrow for elk hunting?

[@joeybennett1491]

I have heard 450-550 is a great range based on what sort of arrow performance you’re looking for.

[@adamvisser9815]

I hunt in the prairies where there isn't a lot of cover and a lot of wind. I have switched to victory archerys vap tko 350 spine with a 125 grain slick trick fixed blade. I haven't cut my arrows tho. I'm using a Dimond toxik, 27-29" draw length. Sorry I can't remember the exact length at this moment. And 70lbs draw back

[@kennethrogers1129]

Well heck, just fletched up some arrows with 4, helical, bohning heats low profile 2.6. Inch, seem to fly real nice so far... will fletch up some 3 right helical to compare. Why were ya”ll talking left helical? Not that it matters, either direction does the same except turning counterclockwise would maybe loosen a broadhead ?

[@garedjennings6509]

Is it okay to shoot 4 fletch out of a whisket biscuit?

[@joehorton01]

I have some old victory v force arrows and the factory nocks feel like they have two "notches" for the string. It feels like the string clicks in close to the end of the nock and then again deeper into the throat or crotch if you will. Is this a design feature or what? Which one should you shoot from? Ive always just used the deeper point.

[@ElkShape]

hard to say.. do you have a good pro shop nearby?

[@joehorton01]

I could call em. Just never worried about it. Got my first robinhood with them so theyre fine for whitetail. I was just curious and thought it might be an interesting talking point for josh to explain.

[@charleslefebvre5515]

@@joehorton01 it is a design feature. It's a double lock system. Meant to help arrows from coming off when letting down. Always shoot from the deepest part. I've seen guys have it act as a dry fire when not paying attention and only nocking to the first spot.

[@joehorton01]

@@charleslefebvre5515 thank you for the clarification

[@greatlakeshuntingandtracking]

Blow my mind

[@shaneberkness2743]

Having a bunch of helical on your vanes isn't the best thing. At long distances your arrow slows down more and causes your arrow to parachute, therefore opening up your groups. I get what he's trying to say but I'd believe professional archers over a shop owner/coach.

[@ElkShape]

believe whatever you choose.. you're looking at a guy who's worked on bows and arrows for over 20 years and another guy who's killed over 30 elk.. - TC

[@shaneberkness2743]

@@ElkShape Tim Gillingham is a professional archer with over 30 years experience and multiple wins in tournaments as well as Levi Mogan and John Dudley who has countless wins. Idk what killing elk has to do with it but congrats on that. I haven't even shot 30 whitetails

[@shaneberkness2743]

@@ElkShape also I enjoy your videos. Don't take my criticism to heart lol

[@pennyontrack]

Awesome

[@ElkShape]

U r

[@Luke2002]

Will the ez fletch a vap tko?

[@trimmin420]

I have a question, how do i know if i should go with a Left or Right helical vane? ... Does it depend on what way my arrow naturally wants to come off the bow or does it depend on the broadhead i chose to use I.E. if i use a right or left single bevel. I am getting back into bow hunting after some time away due to injury and i plan on going with a high FOC so i am trying to get all this "new knowledge" to compute in my brain because growing up it was the most poundage fasted arrow blah blah blah. And after watching some channels on the KZbin i learned of FOC and i am excited to get back to real hunting instead of this fake crossbow twacking that i was forced into ( can you tell i hate the crossbow) so i am trying to figure this out before this season(2022) starts so i can get arrows made that will correctly work with my new way of hunting aka FOC. IF it mattes here are my specs #55 draw weight 28.5 inch draw not sure on arrows for this configuration yet but trying to get a clue. I plan to use a 125 grain Magnus Stinger Broadhead if i am unable to get my hands on the single bevel tuffhead broadheads, i am not sure on the rest of the arrow at this point ( yes i understand it will depend on how my bow shoots an arrow) but to have some kind of knowledge before buying every combination under the sun would be beneficial to me because i am poor.

[@jakedeeble8999]

I’ve been wanting to put a helical on my fletching for a little while now and after watching this vid, would I be correct in saying that I want my helical to be as big as I can? Or at least to get the over lap between the veins like Josh was talking about??? So that there’s more spin and therefore more correcting my arrow as it flies??

[@kennethrogers1129]

Seems like to much spin would take a lot of energy out of the arrow and decrease penetration ? But some holds the broadhead on track? 3deg is what most “experts” recommend seems like?

[@douglash.8862]

THREE,. Degree's with, a 2.5" X .40 Tall ( Heat ) is Minimum Vane size for B-H Flight and, the 2.7 AAE Stealth Maxes, 2.88" VT Swifts and 3 " VaneTec V-Maxes work very,.. "Well" !

[@diegobailey825]

I can almost guarantee you can get the same twist with a four vane

[@Coonhound719]

100% you can! My arrow will not fly with a 3 fletch and my 150 g helix broad heads!

[@jasondlion]

Wow... just dam lmao speechless.

[@LocalsOnlypodcast]

I’m thinking of purchasing one of your arrow fletchers. However I’m not sure weather to get the right or the left one. What do you recommend?

[@ElkShape]

rip your fletchings off, mark your arrow, shoot into foam from 6' and see which direction they twist, right or left... then buy accordingly, fletchings should twist with the arrow - TC

[@amorusmusic]

Another “Diamond in the rough”. Tinkerers University.

[@bloodlines9610]

4 fletch for me. Groups better from 10 to 100. This is all a matter of opinion on what works for you. Nobody else shoots your bow but you, so do your own experimenting. Some of the greater archers in the world shoot 4 fletch....so can't be all bad.

[@Coonhound719]

I put a hard hard helix on my for Fletch my arrow will not fly with 150 grain helix Broadhead with a three vein!

[@RakkaSan7219]

Too mush spin is bad also!! (Faster spin)

[@Monmorrangr]

Someone should tell John Dudley he’s doing it wrong

[@georgecordova8851]

So basically I suck and need to practice 👌

[@mikeguy9668]

Ranch fairy is their biggest fear 🤣 🤣 🤣

[@td1145]

I really like these videos but please realize these are not people with PHDs in aerodynamics. Fletch many combinations and do your own testing. They are also comparing apples to oranges. Why would you compare a 3 vs 4 fletch with the same fletching for an arrow with a field tip? You should compare a 3 fletch high profile blazer or aae max on a micro diameter arrow to a 4 fletch aae pm 2.0 or other very low profile shorter with same overall weight. Test in a wind tunnel to understand impact of cross wind and the helical drag at longer distances and I will take those results as fact and not someone's opinion based on other peoples hypothesis.

[@dirtlegchaser2424]

how do i know youre not lying to me?

[@ripfletching]

Great video guys I’ve enjoyed this back when I shot competition I noticed there was an old boy who his groups were super tight and I spoke with him for a little bit and he said his secret was turbo Knox which rotate the arrow at 6000 RPMs the minute it leaves the bow so I ordered some and lo and behold for state championships and two shooter of the years later I’m here to tell you the knock is more important than the Fletching it’s for nominal with a turbo knock will do and nowadays shooters don’t know anything about it it’s a thing of the past but I still use them they will totally revolutionize the way your arrow flies and you can shoot a much smaller Fletching matter fact I recommend a smaller Fletching with the turbo knock

[@mitchgraves8197]

OK, I'll concede MOST of what he says is true and mention the fact that for 99% of the bow hunters out there in 99% of the real life situations they are in makes everything he said utterly irrelevant. I'm not gonna take the time to pick ALL this crap apart, nor anI going to do it in order. For those who fell for it I suggest you rewatch and after each "4 fletch" negative" just ask yourself if it is really relevant. #1 - The sideways wind shear. LOL, are you freaking kidding me? Exactly what animal is out in strong winds? In IL the average shot on a deer is 12 yards. How much do you think the wind could move your arrow in 12 yrds? Oh, did we forget we are almost always in the words where the wind is knocked down? I spent years selling archery stuff at gun shows. I also was a hunter saftey instructor and I taught a bunch of ppl to shoot bows and guns on my own time. I started taking 'polls' at the gunshows with the hundreds of archers I spoke to. Never, NOT ONCE, did any of the concerns mentioned in the vid come up. You know what did come up? Losing deer because of numerous issues with a release. AXIOM: "If something can go wwonrg bowhunting it will" And you know what else? Missing a deer because something went bad on the first shot and due to release use or time spent getting an arrow in the string correctly they didn't have time for a 2nd shot. A 4 fletch arrow means knocking up correctly without even glancing at the arrow. WHICH IS IMPORTANT because the deer you just missed is alert now. Shooting fingers is MUCH quieter and MUCH faster. Yes, it does take a little more practice. Here is the ACTUAL IMPRTANT thing about real life deer hunting: KISS, "keep it simple stupid" and keep it quiet, and control your scent. It they can't smell you, and they can't see you and you have a bow set up for max quiet INSTEAD of max speed you will do better than most guys in the woods. No bow made can shoot an arrow faster than a deer can "jump the string". So buying a short axel to axel bow means you haver to shoot a release and the bow will be noisy. Trade in the speed for quiet. If the bow makes little noise and you miss you can get a 2nd shot. I know. ALSO, MOST of the deer I shot - even very close, just walked off. When I shot my bow at archery ranges other guys would come up to me and say, That's the qiestest compound I ever heard. Daul cam, never more than 50% let off. Felt everywhere, limb and string silencers... QUIET! And always 4 fletch so I can watch the eyes of the deer as I get another arrow. Bow felted up so if I tap the bow while watching the deer it makes no noise. So you can worry about all of the nonsense in this video as if you are shooting 100yds at the Olympics in gale force winds *OR* you can make your life easier and your short times in the woods more productive by giving yourself as much advantage as you can.

[@mitchgraves8197]

One thing more, I suggest you use feathers not plastice or rubber vanes. Not a huge issue. aids the quiet and less interaction with the rest etc.

[@natlewis6010]

a quick search will tell you that these guys are located in the west, open country, long shots, always windy. To think that wind drift is irrelevant because you shoot at 10 yards in the woods in IL shows how far into the sand you head is buried. You come to Alberta or Montana and shoot at a 70 yard target in a normal cross wind and tell me that wind drift isnt a thing. Would you really rather choose not have to look at fletch orientation over hitting an animal 6'' further away from the kill zone then anticipated? And where do you suppose all these animals go when its windy 80% of the time? Do they migrate to IL on windy days?

[@wolftiger59]

Sorry this is just absolute nonsense

[@jarvisrussette]

Froto baggins and Gandalf the gray before they were cool