ARCHIE SONIC VS XENO GOKU - THE HONEST TRUTH.

After hundreds of comments during my prior archie sonic vs MUI goku I finally decided to go over both characters and see who truly wins so i can “END THE DEBATE” for good. If you enjoy content such as these be sure to subscribe as i am in the road to 10,000 subscribers and it would mean a lot and be greatly appreciated.
#anime #sonic #dragonball #powerscaling #manga #vsbattle
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[@Tempest1018]

Thanks for watching⬇️ Our discord server - discord.gg/AEUWXFbwQp My cashapp - cash.app/$Kevin2fr

[@kingpizza1854]

I look at this from the goofiest way possible they finna have a chilly dog eating contest Goku fart destroy all of creation and sonic reset everything back and the cycle continues

[@kevinmartin8394]

So my question is. What about the multipliers of the super saiyan? Forms And your power scaling is still a little bit off. You never mentioned how so many of the people Xeno goku Fight Could literally oneshot Xenosama Which is literally stated to be invulnerable to everything. And within each time scroll. Is a whole another Copy Of that tree of time or whatever the hell it is. Which basically is stating. Each scroll of time that is destroyed. And itself is destroying. An infinite number of multi verses. I do apologize, I'm extremely bad at. My descriptions here feel free to make fun of me, LOL. And I forget I believe super saying for itself is 2000 times stronger than base. So the power is scanning Is kind of ridiculous for Xeno goku?

[@kevinmartin8394]

But you are much better than pretty much anybody else I've seen. I'll give you that much. And it is very hard to power skill. Especially when you're doing it by yourself. And power scaling in general. No matter how many people you have is always gonna be crazy.

[@kevinmartin8394]

❤

[@sumnahlennon5449]

Neither Ken Penders or Ian Flynn believes their Archie Sonic can beat any Goku. In terms of consistency, a small robot from the games can and will hurt Archie Sonic. Once in a blue moon something wacky or cartoony happens and fanboys call that a massive feat from Archie Sonic. 9 times out of 10, Archie Sonic can just move a few thousand miles per hour at best. Atleast, thats what Ian Flynn believes.

[@GokuSolosInfinitely]

Aside from not mentioning xeno goku has resistance to fate manipulation (demigra tried to change his fate and failed) Your video is pretty much accurate

[@dsm2417]

True

[@Jacklin_television]

i mean it probably works differently with the fate manipulation stuff because it's not a dragon ball type ability I dont think goku being stronger would not make him resistant but thats just my opinion

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

In Dragon Ball, characters could "resist" certain hax just by muscling through it, but that doesn't mean they could resist it altogether if their opponent has a higher power level.

[@Jacklin_television]

@@cirnosnumberfan6449 resisting it to the point seen in dragon ball has already been enough to equalize the battle and with the base power difference's it would probably do the same but at the end of the day let us be honest Goku and sonic would be good friends

[@Jacklin_television]

@@cirnosnumberfan6449 however that only been dragon ball hax it may be different cause it power from a different verse sense obviously sonic and dragon ball ability's work differently and if you tell me that sonic and dragon ball ability's do work the same way im pressing x to doubt

[@LemoneMan]

Its basically like a balanced video game. Anybody can win here.

[@lenatunji]

This isn’t balanced Xeno Goku’s abilities make all hax useless and can negate immortality meaning you can’t come back if erased.

[@djmherrence8765]

@@lenatunji as he stated rings and plot manipulation and sonic can change fate PLUS he can wish for anything so that alone puts sonic on top

[@GokuSolosInfinitely]

​@@djmherrence8765 xeno goku can summon shenron and grant wish abilities Yes thats so busted but in Xenoverse you can do that

[@soupdiscreet4565]

Yo I just want to say something didn't the anime xeno goku get boxed by normal ui goku

[@soupdiscreet4565]

Today

[@moistsponge9227]

tbh with how comically strong these characters are it kinda lessens any sort of coherance to power scaling in general. like how am I supposed to judge whether one omnipotent god can beat another omnipotent god honestly

[@studiobaguette7781]

Cant the fact dat sonic write his story make him win ?

[@malikmcfarlane6060]

@@studiobaguette7781 No since metaphysics don't scale a character anywhere even God Fusion Goku was able to fuse with the entire audience to defeat Broly.

[@lenatunji]

@@swirlyfryXeno Goku can do anything and plot and fate manipulation don’t work on Xeno Goku nor does reality warping. You would have a better chance just fist fighting Xeno Goku.

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

You get used to it after doing it awhile.

[@malikmcfarlane6060]

@@lenatunji Xeno goku has wish-granting as a card ability in the games and granting wishes is literally warping reality like Sonic with the chaos emeralds, even GT Goku that fused with Shenron didn't wish granting abilities and used it to heal grandma pan in dbgt final movie.

[@lenarmangum8640]

Xeno Goku isn't an idiot like his DBS counterpart and while enjoying a good battle, will end the fight as soon as he can. If the void manipulation is basically like bullets, he should be able to dodge them and get in close enough range to win via AP.

[@Abrold]

Xeno Goku just instant tranmission sonic to other universes

[@JusKalZ]

a goku vs sonic discussion video with no bias is a W VALID video brotha 🤝🏾

[@krimsonpotara6631]

If we’re going by dragonball logic just having a stronger power level most cases means that you can bypass abilities just by being stronger than the user and even if you don’t go by that gokus dealt with fate manipulation from demigra which failed granting Goku fate manipulation resistance

[@the_speeddemon1094]

Good point!! hmmm

[@bamboteevee]

Bro that's not db cuz that applies to any1 if they're a dimensional tier higher they bypass ur hax no matter wat since they already transcend ur dimensionality and therfore ur hax also, Also this vid was so sht man, it's downpalyed the hell outta goku like crazy and even sonic got down played but nowhere near as much as goku, also he was wrong bout so much, like u can't hav irrelevant speed unless u an Outerversal being, since if u r bound by dimensionality therefore the speed formula can be used on u but if u transcend dimensional which would mean speed formula cannot be used therefore u hav irrelevant speed

[@MohamedDekkal-yy3uh]

The real problem is when db characters become above the consept it's self like goku from the anime having inaccessible speed and jiren just walk while time is frozen

[@bamboteevee]

@@MohamedDekkal-yy3uh I mean, Jiren told Time to stop the BS cuz he's not strong enough to stop Jiren

[@MohamedDekkal-yy3uh]

@@bamboteevee goku literlly moved in a literlly the void in trunks world giving him inaccessible speed and evenn vados say that jiren raw power above the concept of time remember vados an angel who have great knowlegd about time Hell even other world is baisaclly 5d Db focuse alot in raw power and chracters grow pretty fast i mean from a mountain to moon in og db then from moon to planetsin sayain saga to stars in namek then solar system with cell then galaxies and dimension and the living world with buu then the whole macrocosom from the start then the timline that contain everthing wich is pretty high dimension all of this is easy to ssj bleu goku level in the end of future trunks arc

[@lilianpalacios3255]

I agree with the fact that its more in Gokus favor, The only way Archie Sonic Wins is by using very specific rulesets. Such as The keysword not doing nothing. Good video my man. God loves you.

[@lycantubeves5992]

Maybe like what happened on the death battle "Silver vs Trunks", right?

[@lilianpalacios3255]

@@lycantubeves5992 Tbh, I used to think silver stomped. Now though, Trunks Shouldve Won. He outscales and powerwise, is leauges above him.

[@lycantubeves5992]

@@lilianpalacios3255 fr

[@Arxhie.Darkest]

@@lilianpalacios3255 He does not lol

[@gunslinger9786]

@@Arxhie.Darkest Xeno trunks absolutely bullies him

[@Master-e99]

Personally, I think archie sonic. But this fight is like a pvp game, its really just chance when it come to xeno and archie. Also, you are forgetting ultra archie sonic, probably his strongest form in ALL of the sonic franchise.

[@juliusnovachrono4370]

This video is honestly really good and its good to see you back.

[@Hyperdragon1701]

I would like to point out that Sonic also has access to Ultra Sonic, which he can access without the use of the chaos/super emeralds. Ultra would allow him to basically become the equivalent of Xeno Gokus Keysword. He could turn Xenos Ki into water if he wanted to.

[@JakeRider-wc6ke]

Xeno Goku also have Kaioken x100 and DBR hax were he can completely nullify any ability sooooo

[@Hyperdragon1701]

@@JakeRider-wc6ke He needs Ki to do anything. Without Ki DB characters literally die on the spot. Besides there is a limit to "Nu uh my Character can nullify all other abilities." There is scaling in DB. By simply being more powerful than another person you can literally resist magic. By the nature of how DB works as a series there is a very specific limit to what a character can and cannot do.

[@Blazegti]

@@Hyperdragon1701goku can erase sonics ability to live

[@Drexthefennecfox]

@@Blazegti how tho?

[@Blazegti]

@@Drexthefennecfox erasure

[@pumpkinhead8071]

I appreciate the amount of work you put into this. I can tell right off the back cause you brought up fluffing dragon ball legends

[@ClxrckEdits]

But the problem is, everything that archie sonic showed was at his base.

[@TKing-ql8vn]

So does xeno Goku 😂

[@ClxrckEdits]

@@TKing-ql8vnhave you even played the games and watch the whole series? 💀

[@TKing-ql8vn]

@@ClxrckEdits yep .

[@ClxrckEdits]

@@TKing-ql8vn if that so, you would have know that Xeno Goku shows better feats in ss4 than in base form

[@reversehomophobic8936]

​@@ClxrckEditsnah base has better feats

[@whosjoe633]

Didn't a Post U6 Goku fight Mira who was able to use fate manipulation and beat him high diff?

[@H4styG4mer]

Ya

[@4bros352]

I'll give this a 100/10 and plus you were actually fair to both sonic and goku!! No bias at all. Great video

[@lllll260]

💀bro left out 11d sonic and 20d and outer arguments sonic and ur saying no bias💀

[@lllll260]

@@2_e28k8 who cares he didn't mention bout 11dimensional sonic scaling which is high complex

[@Who_2151]

​@@lllll260aw he's crying

[@leotufs7878]

Would the plot manipulation work on someome not from his story tho?? (Its jot a bias statmemt or anything im genuienly curious)

[@angelmaximux840]

Doesn't goku also have plot manipulation and fate manipulation and he can create and destroy miracles

[@kiros3190]

Yea

[@kevinsimaibang5651]

🤣🤣

[@ynvg]

fr ppl dont understand that they even say archie beats cc goku bruh

[@Abrold]

@@ynvg yeah they don't anything know about CC Goku

[@_KAZI]

Pretty good video. Food for thought tho, when it comes to the Dragon Ball heroes multiverse, beats reality is seemingly suppose to be a representation of our own, as beat is just a normal kid playing a video game. Which means the real world and the dbz one have the same type of dimensions, Length, Width, And Height, and on top of that we cant just say its a bigger size of the same reality because of cardinal sets, the dbh and xenoverse storylines house infinitely sized constructs. Meaning the most plausible difference between these two are conceptual ones. beats full self can only exist in the game’s reality as an avatar, an aspect, a mere facet of the real body of beat, even when we consider that he was sucked into the game, only an avatar could exist there. The difference between these two realms is far more than that of a 3D realm and a 50D realm, as a 50D realm has 100 directions of movement, 6 of them being the same as the 3D one, but these two realms have the same directions but ones is still conceptually greater, this by passes the idea of just dimensional tiering, and more enters the realms of Low Outerversal to Outerversal scaling. Sorry for the essay bro😭

[@Tempest1018]

Wsp kazi and np i get essays all the time. I mainly dont scale characters to outer at all simply because to casuals the tier is a bit convoluted and overwanked i was aware of the outer metas for both and decided to low ball however still give it to the person who would’ve won regardless which was ofc xeno goku, however thank you for the feedback and i appreciate it and also love your content

[@_KAZI]

@@Tempest1018 ofc bro. I appreciate that. Keep up the good work. The scaling and vidoes are really good🙏

[@PurelyFactsYT]

The thing about people who watch these is most people will always think that because a character is stronger just because a character is strong doesn't mean they always win thats why they say brain beats Braun i know that doesn't apply to the vid but anywho characters aren't create in tent to fight other characters this is why these videos always end in it depends on what you think and only go over the stats cause they are just telling you what they think it's up to the reader or watcher to formulate thier own idea None the less im not hating im only ranting but amazing vid you earned a new subscriber

[@ktononcent539]

xeno goku vs ultra archie sonic plz and great video btw God love you

[@Rhetorical_Ife]

W video Tempest

[@porobotboyxxx]

4:37-4:44 I want to believe this but Archie Sonic was never amped by the power of the Precious Stone. The comic never states that Sonic was amped by it, Lumina showed it to Sonic as an explanation of what was going on.

[@Quzzail]

This is a beautiful explanation, great video, good to see you back as well, I got sonic taking this as well

[@the_speeddemon1094]

Same

[@lefeeshchopped8286]

In the end, I honestly think this fight could go either way equally.

[@HentaiGod-sama]

You forgot to add the fact that Xeno Goku has plot and fate manipulation. Other than that, this was plain facts.

[@jxamxue8466]

W vid but I got a question. The timelines exist on scrolls in xenoverse and the scrolls exist in a finite room. This being support by the statement, "if too many scrolls are added, the room will go poof." Would this disprove infinite timelines in Xenoverse?

[@Tempest1018]

No it just means theres sets of infinity within the verse

[@jxamxue8466]

@@Tempest1018 ight

[@Flap_jacks69]

@@Tempest1018no? That’s not what that would mean at all literally nothing implies db follows that anyways.

[@kadexshidomuda8113]

@@Flap_jacks69 If they are showing infinities on top if infinities then you saying nothing implies that they follow this theory would just be an argument born from nothing but ignorance. Which us fallacious.

[@Flap_jacks69]

@@kadexshidomuda8113 except dragon ball doesn’t ever show this at all, the time vault having limits to how many timelines it can contain leads to dbh having finite timelines. Which in the context of the story as well as many other things is consistent.

[@Animefacts35]

This is very good video

[@blackhammerxp5489]

W video, but question, what are your thoughts on Drip_Sause’s videos on Outerversal Goku & do you agree with them or are they debunkable to you??

[@Tempest1018]

I don’t think ANYONE should listen to drip_Sauce and goku is NOT outerveral

[@blackhammerxp5489]

@@Tempest1018 he has claimed you debunks are “ass” & he “rebunked” Goku to outer, he’s even tried to claim the games & the 13 original Z movies are canon which is such BS & are easily debunkable. But I would love to see you debunk ALL of his claims to end the whole Outerversal Goku controversy

[@Tempest1018]

@@blackhammerxp5489 i’ve never wasted my time on making a video on drip sauce i dont wanna give him fame or clout lol.

[@cywh1711]

Drip Sauce is an idiot.

[@DionAnims]

​@@Tempest1018so you can't?

[@frankjames6923]

Do cc goku next please

[@thesoniclegend1929]

doesn't matter, kirby appears and throws a friend heart at em both, making them all friends and eating cake together (jokes aside, great video, love watching your content)

[@pokestars4207]

ay ngl to the ppl who be complaining in comments about the winners I got smth to say to yall. ITS NOT THAT DEEP! Hints to why ppl got it going for debate friends!

[@sycochains4144]

this well thought out but what about ultra sonic or will it stay the same

[@cameronreitmaier9334]

I barely see any one mention the silent zone in archie sonic debates (at least the ones a I’ve seen) would Goku have any ways of escaping that place?

[@dsm2417]

He can summon the dragon balls ans escape from it

[@hardcoore_gyt9254]

The crack of time is more impressive honestly.

[@Toddles]

@@dsm2417no he cannot not in the zone

[@Toddles]

@@hardcoore_gyt9254it’s not

[@cameronreitmaier9334]

Wait when did Goku use the key sword thing? I’ve only seen Trunks use it. Also from what I know about the key sword is that it’s powered up into the blue version by the surpreme kai of time so wouldn’t that be considered outside help? I don’t really like adding that to the debate because of that reason.

[@booty.worrior]

I mean, kinda? It's not like someone is giving him power so much as him taking it l.

[@zar5101]

Keysword is an optional equipment. I believe it has something to do with the game's. If I were to guess there's probably a feature where you can equip the keysword for Xeno Goku or not. By the way Xeno Goku has people he can summon who have time power who can awaken the keysword. It's not necessarily outside help. You can't restrict summons because it is part of Xeno Goku's abilities. Think of Naruto being able to summon Kurama. Or Giorno summoning his stand.

[@booty.worrior]

@@zar5101 couldn't have said it better myself.

[@RandomDrawer_tm]

Taking a look at the comments, bro was right. This debate is going to go on forever Because nobody can make up their god damn minds on who wins.

[@kyronhoward9935]

Can you cover GT Goku vs Fleetway Sonic?

[@DB-Fighter-Carson]

Considering 1 dimension higher equals infinite more strength in terms of 2-3 D and 3-4 D Id think Goku probably wins with or without the sword unless the plot manipulation I guess. I didnt know too much with either of these characters havent paid much attention to db heros specifically and Ive just heard some of how broken Archie Sonic is so yeah.

[@cheesefinder111]

Never guessed based on your pfp

[@cheesefinder111]

I can get Sonic to 1-A quite easily, Sonic bends Goku's skull into a chili dog and eats it

[@Anti-Alphabet_Mafia]

​@@cheesefinder111That's your opinion, though.

[@cheesefinder111]

@@Anti-Alphabet_Mafia It's my opinion but there is evidence to support it

[@Anti-Alphabet_Mafia]

@@cheesefinder111 Doesn't matter even if you could, because Jump Force Naruto is enough for Archie Sonic. Jump Force Goku completely deletes Archie so it's not even fair. They all see shonen as fiction and can destroy it, and that includes Sonic.

[@tiltedxfn3635]

Xeno goku legit one taps, higher dimensionality also having layers upon layers of time and fate manipulation. Passive power nullification with immortality, regeneration negation, on top of having statistics and stamina reduction that works on beings with infinite stamina, fate, and causality manip resistance. Its not close.

[@cheesefinder111]

Never would have guessed based on your pfp

[@cheesefinder111]

I can get Sonic to 1-A quite easily, Sonic bends Goku's skull into a chili dog and eats it

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

Goku pfp spotted

[@tiltedxfn3635]

@@cheesefinder111 its wrong tho

[@cheesefinder111]

@@tiltedxfn3635 Can you debunk Archie Sonic being 1-A?

[@yareluludag782]

When is part 3 going to happen because you didn’t mention Ultra sonic and weren’t Solaris in the games

[@TheCloudyPresence]

Can you do CC Goku vs Mario

[@machtenverl5916]

About the key sword, Sonic's super and ultra form should be able to resist it because enerjak could literally reduce things to atoms while that couldn't even affect super sonic. The genesis wave should also be a reason why the super forms should be able to resist it. At least, that's what I figure.

[@Lord_AINZ_edits]

No the key sword is unresistible he did not say it the video but the key sword can all so change reality and plot the ability key sword breaker can change the future and past am not sure about the present but many enemies in sdbh are above time so it would not work unless the user was stronger or a higher dimension

[@machtenverl5916]

@@Lord_AINZ_edits In ep 77 of sonic x, life energy was getting sucked out of everyone and everything. While that was happening, the Chaos Emeralds got in contact with the energy and they started glowing, halting the process of the energy extraction. So even if sonic got hit by the key sword, it wouldn't do much.

[@lenatunji]

Xeno Goku can negate hax by TUrNinG thEm OFF!

[@Lord_AINZ_edits]

@@machtenverl5916 that not how the key sword works bro go look it and stop comparing it to low ball watered down sonic x

[@machtenverl5916]

@@Lord_AINZ_edits Ay, I'm just going by what bro is saying in the video, but whatever

[@doom_7558]

1: Has (in base) consistently equal to knuckles who (in the comics) was biologically engineered to be equal in power to a single chaos emerald being referred to as "a living chaos emerald" of limitless power 2:Sonic is able to (in base) fight Mammoth Mogul and Ixis naugus while they are empowered by chaos emeralds (I should clarify that in this verse HALF of a chaos emerald is capable of creating an entire alternate reality as a reaction) 3: Super sonic is empowered by 7 (full) Emeralds which are physical manifestations of the chaos force which binds all planes of existence and transcends space-time of infinite universes 4:Sonic fought alongside hyper knuckles and turbo tails to take down Master Mogul who had drained dmitri (3rd incarnation of Enerjak) who was brought forth by 11 chaos emeralds (mind you it only takes 7 to rewrite the multiverse with "no limits", AND who had gravely wounded the ancient walkers (the beings who gave sonic his canonical plot armour and semi rulers of the chaos force) 5: Super sonic EASILY pummelled a weakened enerjak (who is capable of manifesting any power through the use of imagination 6: defeated solaris...god of time, light, and fire (self explanatory) 7:Was going to use chaos control to revert the effects of the super genesis wave (which he is immune to due to super sonic) and were going to warp the multiverse's dimensional matrix which has over 11 dimensions and (due to eggman interrupting him and screwing up his ability) causing the complete destruction of the multiverse [which is comprised of infinite universes, comprising of "infinite variations on infinite possibilities", this also includes maginary world which supports the existence of extra-dimensional worlds, and this also includes the chaos force, a higher plane of existence to the space-time continuum] 8:Super sonic battled and eventually destroyed sigma- with mega-man who in sigma-1 was powered by 2 universes and stated he would transcend the 11-dimensional structure of a full multiverse along with it's limitations , infinite worlds 9: in ultra sonic he is vastly stronger than before, powered by a super emerald which are more powerful than 7 chaos emeralds if we get theoretical hyper sonic wound essentially be completely busted going into boundless territory however xeno goku and limit breaker ss4 can be considered the same, me and my friend (who is an expert on xeno goku) had agreed that this essentially puts them at wholey equal power in terms of just scaling but again what decides it are essentially those two hax abilities but if i were to say sonic's fate manipulation is engrained in the fabric of existence itself so it's kind of hard to argue the key blade would undermine that

[@dsm2417]

While yea it woudl, Xeno Goku still outscales, and even counter all his hax and has higher plain of existence levels of AP. Including beyond his own stories and fictional worlds

[@tarisoala9717]

Archie Sonic goes as hight as 5-D with Chaos itself, not sure it goes higher than that

[@Arcseal]

Where did Mario infinite lives source came from, I always wonder where it came from?

[@Kloudy.Thoughts]

10/10 video I one day hope to be able to make videos like this and receive such positive feed back but I wanna ask do you think a hypothetical archie hyper sonic could tip the scales even further?

[@Tempest1018]

Mmm maybe

[@jax3845]

​@@Tempest1018well hyper is 7 times ultra

[@Logical_Jay]

Can you do jump Force Goku?

[@_KingBlur]

He doesn't scale anywhere hes just a pre granola arc goku so literally not different from anime goku that much

[@_KingBlur]

He doesn't scale to Prometheus either

[@Logical_Jay]

@@_KingBlur yes he does, fym

[@Logical_Jay]

@@_KingBlur Jump Force came out after the manga even finished

[@_KingBlur]

@@Logical_Jay nvm jump force goku is literally pre moro arc goku lmao

[@ultrainstinctgokuhope7442]

Also, aren't there scale to make archie sonic outer or high outer due to scans?

[@METRONxy]

Sonic being above the concept of time should make him outer. I was thinking the same thing

[@mthedarkness3383]

@@METRONxy Isn't that a 4D-5D feat? How does being above the concept of time make you outer?

[@cywh1711]

Only with Sonic fanboys who have "Cypher" in their name.

[@METRONxy]

@@mthedarkness3383 Transcending time is different from transcending the concept of time

[@mthedarkness3383]

@@METRONxy The definition of outerversal still confuses me to this day.

[@aidanlyons25]

So how strong is the DBS Goku from SDBH?

[@therandomchannelx4875]

Was Ultra Sonic a factor in this fight or not

[@lefeeshchopped8286]

At this point, it'd take more than one billion times since he's collected a ton more rings since then.

[@NotKages]

I agree with your premise based on how you scaled them. Personally i think Archie Sonic AND Xeno Goku were, funnily, downplayed. You can easily get both to outer and i do believe XG doesnt really have any valid wincons against Archie Sonic, even with the keyblade. I dont feel like you really understand how Sonic's Fate Manip works in depth as his is quite a bit different from normal fate manip.

[@Tempest1018]

I dont use outerversal characters on youtube due to regulars and casual viewers not knowing what they are and them finding it “outlandish” so sometimes i do downplay the characters for the videos sake. HOWEVER i do give who i think actually wins

[@NotKages]

@@Tempest1018 Thats a completely valid take. Good vid regardless. Like your more grounded takes on these vs battles

[@SS-CHARA576]

Xeno goku have resistance to fate manipulation demigra try to change his fate and failed

[@thestickmansavioryt1941]

Sonic still has miracle manipulation, and plot manipulation, and Narrative Transcendence.

[@DionAnims]

​@@thestickmansavioryt1941while xeno Goku has the same thing bro he has miracle manipulation and authority manipulation

[@1ario15]

Request video: who will win Paper Mario or Xeno Goku

[@Lucky-pc4tg]

Wait is it true that ian flynn stated goku would beat sonic? I just saw that in the comments of another video that would literally mean everything is thrown out the window literally means it doesn't matter how strong either are if even he can't decide if archie sonic is too broken or would lose to goku it's contradictory so the entire argument is for not anyway

[@hyde4709]

He said that Kid Goku could beat Archie Sonic. That take obviously is terrible cuz Archie Sonic would kill Kid Goku

[@Fruadlantbastard]

​@@hyde4709yeah it's surprising how polar opposite are the Sonic writers opposed to Sonic fans.

[@SIeepingLeaf]

This was a great video but you did not use all of xeno gokus hax and you did not use the crimson world where fu lives to scale him but other then that this is a great video

[@doriankamanzi6874]

i think in the end sonic still has plot manipulation and fate m98iniulation in base so even with the sword sonic should win being a higher dimensional being doesn't stop fate manipulation now (: do cc goku please

[@ultrainstinctgokuhope7442]

It just goku, but higher scale then xeno goku

[@jaredwong-bynoe2750]

It’s just goku but with fan made stuff. But if we do cc sonic then it’s fair

[@METRONxy]

Fate manipulation won't work on characters on a higher plane than their opponet

[@machtenverl5916]

​@@jaredwong-bynoe2750Capsule Corp Sonic? Is that real?😂

[@jaredwong-bynoe2750]

@@machtenverl5916 Though you mean composition my bad

[@jaydenlambert6541]

Do jump force goku vs archie sonic plzzzzzz

[@tarajipowell9227]

My question is what’s the difference between fate and plot manipulation From what I guess, fate is basically changing the fate of the fight or situation while plot is basically becoming the author of the story and changing the situation entirely. Also technically doesn’t Archie Sonic break the 4th wall by doing plot manipulation or staring at the “camera” and “talking to us” I’m still a bit confused on both of their abilities

[@naseer-24]

Xeno Goku went through GT and movie so he has a lot of experience too

[@thefirstprime0124]

Xeno goku went through everything including super he fought beerus before just the difference he didn't go train with whis

[@naseer-24]

@@thefirstprime0124 Thanks for the info

[@rayandre9168]

Its funny how xeno goku cant transform and the arcade version of his a boundless being you went easy and goku still won

[@METRONxy]

How's he boundless?

[@samysmur6381]

@@METRONxy thats what am talking about

[@lenatunji]

@@METRONxyHe’s never used his full power and can be scaled to outer with feats.

[@METRONxy]

@@lenatunji Those xeno Goku transcend concepts?

[@Arxhie.Darkest]

@@lenatunji Doesn’t matter if he never used his maxing abilities What matter is the potential feats that Xeno goku able to pull out Beside that “Goku never shown his full power” is an Appeal to Possibility that he might be able to scale to outer lol also Super sonic already 2 layer into High Outerversal against Solaris who transcend the meaning of time and Chaos Force contain realm where the Concept of time is irrelevant. And yet it was also state that Sonic never even able to use 100% power of Chaos Emerald cuz the power is just too strong And yet that small amount of power sonic has been using able to surpassed entity who transcend the concept of time.

[@Persona970_]

One issue I see is that Archie Sonic has way more at his disposal than what you put onto the table. He's invulnerable/invincible in Super so the Key Sword wouldn't work (i.e Super Genesis Wave didnt affect Super Sonic and it was programmed to make Sonic basically powerless), has Ultra form which gives him additional abilities on top of what Super already did, and not to mention you were combining Archie lore with game lore which creates inaccuracies. In Archie lore, Eggman didn't drain the emeralds of their power during the Dark Gaia event. Sonic breathed in a piece of Dark Gaia's essence and that's how he became a werehog. Both Sonic and Eggman had to find the Chaos Emeralds for their own goals during that time, Sonic to put the world back together and Eggman to take over the planet. If you're going to do a character analysis then at least place all the facts on the table.

[@theonomaly6389]

So... Are we not going to talk about Hyper or Ultra... Fleetway or even Sonic just have the entire infinite multiverses of infinities to help him like in that in thing. And yes, I am aware that Fleetway is working at a café but still, I feel he counts as a power up.

[@hadouradiance3566]

Nothing of what you said was valid. Archie Sonic has never used the Hyper form. Ultra wouldnt do anything to Xeno Goku and wouldnt matter because all it does is grant him matter manipulation, but he cant affect living molecules. Its debatable wherher ki even has atoms but its life energy regardless so this form is useless. Fleetway Sonic is not a thing. What youre referring to is Super Sonic, a demon that Sonic transforms into once he goes Super with the chaos emeralds. The reason its called Fleetway Sonic is the same reason Archie Sonic is called Archie Sonic. Those comics are published by Fleetway, not Archie, and are a completely different version of Sonic. Plus hes weaker than base Archie anyway.

[@theonomaly6389]

@@hadouradiance3566 I was just saying that I wonder what would happen how this fight might change if Archie got Hyper Form. Sorry about not being specific about that. Also, I call the demon version of Super Sonic, Fleetway. I was unaware Fleetway Sonic was actually by a different creator. I don’t have access to either of their comic series, so I did my best, should have done a bit more research I guess…

[@Still-Struggling]

You low balled the chaos force. The chaos force transcends dimensionality it’s self. That’s at least low outer.

[@michaelrodrigues57]

That's high outer bruh

[@wasifchowdhury2004]

@@michaelrodrigues57 the definition for low outer is that it transcends dimensionality and that's it

[@yoo-nity2821]

Rings don't ressurect yourself without outside help, and the ultimate nullifer wasn't even targetting Sonic, so that doesn't count as resisting existence erasure. Xeno Goku also probably doesn't have Hakai, as Xeno Goku only experienced Z, Z movies, and GT. There was also a more concrete feat for infinte speed super sonic by the weaker Sonic Man form being so fast that time stops had no effect. That being said, the power scaling is subjective (especially the Beat's world stuff), so eh, nice video.

[@kiros3190]

He also fought beerus

[@charlesilenotuma]

So you are really bais

[@Lord_AINZ_edits]

Do sonic vs godfusion goku just for fun please😃

[@user-te9ym5ky3iBagman2.0]

I can only enjoy Videos like these I don't really like to get mad Unless something's really wrong

[@bamboteevee]

The downplay on goku is unreal bro Xeno goku scales layers into boundless, A) in Xenoverse there's word for word "many worlds theory" therefore the Time nest would be Outer since it holds all of the infinite history B) beats world is beyond it since they view db as fiction and hav to use avatars to join the game not to mention it's also meant to be The real world and Xeno goku is capable of destroying all of it since selious stated he can rest everything including beats world therefore would be 2 layers into boundless if we go with beats world being 3D but there's worlds beyond it which is the charisma world and Xeno goku scales above even that Xeno Goku solos archie comics no diff Even if u go with the stupid scale u made goku still wins since he's a dimensional tier higher therefore sonic hax wouldn't work or apply to goku and Goku would infinitely neg, Also irrelevant speed cannot be attained by beings that r limited by dimensionality, irrelevant speed is only for Outerversal beings or higher Beings limited by dimensionality can achieve Mftl, infinite, inaccessible, immeasurable whilst irrelevant speed like u said means that speed isn't a factor within the equation since they're above spacial dimensions and for any being that's not beyond spacial dimension u can give them a speed since spacial dimensions hav exactly (DISTANCE) therfore u hav 1 part of the speed formula

[@Tempest1018]

U have no idea what you’re talking about. I never said he loses IN FACT i said he wins however with these certain conditions he loses. Also infinite history IE infinite time. Doesn’t scale to outerversal. You obviously dont understand the many worlds theory either because if you did you wouldn’t be saying anything about this.

[@bamboteevee]

@@Tempest1018 u said it can go either but u not sure, even though being a single dimensional tier higher means u slap them no matter wat since u infinitely surpass them

[@bamboteevee]

@@Tempest1018 let's see so wat u saying is multiple statements which say the following "There are infinite timelines with there being infinite parallel quests which hav their own infinite history and each of them r held within an extradimensional coordinate with each exceeding the last" If that doesn't scale to infinite dimensional bare minimum u got somthing wrong in ur head, Since if there r infinite 5D worlds somthing that holds it must be 6D but if each of them surpass the last 1 therfore transcending it they musty be 7,8,9 and so forth towards infinitely and all fo that is held within the time nest therefore is low outer bare minimum and Toki toki the bird literally stated to be above all dimensions therefore spacial and temporal dimensionals and is responsible for the birth of the db history would make it the Nesessary existence or in other worlds Outerversal by Default got absorbed by demigra and Xeno goku put him in a pack, U can't debate otherwise u jus completely wrong no matter what u say since even Dbs goku scales 10D so u jus outright bout everything u said

[@Abrold]

@@Tempest1018 hey man why did you downplay Xeno goku so much? Xeno goku is clearly stronger than archie sonic

[@Nextkej]

game xeno goku is easily outer lmao stop the downplay

[@Tempest1018]

I dont scale characters on my channel to outer due to the misconceptions on what outer is to casual viewers

[@Nextkej]

@@Tempest1018 what’s your definition of outer

[@Abrold]

@@Tempest1018 sorry to break you man but Xeno Goku would destroyed archie sonic as a whole

[@cronaxblade]

Okay... but wouldn't Chaos Control negate the power of the key sword tho?? Seeing as they have no limits and bend the laws of reality?

[@wirefull9969]

Go check out divine's video on xeno goku, if you dont know how strong or durable or what abilities he has

[@cronaxblade]

@@wirefull9969 Okay, I'll check it out

[@porobotboyxxx]

4:36-4:44 Where does it say Sonic was amped by it?

[@Plutopowerful]

You and jobbers and goons are some of the best power scalers I’ve come across, good shit 💯

[@cjcj4861]

Does it look like we care there are horrible power scalers as a matter fact why have power scalers is in this world stupid

[@dsm2417]

Even without it Xeno Goku should be able to win. He literally scales above demigra who can affect the real world of dbh(beats world) who are also viewed as fiction by other beings as mangas. Fuu himself is able to interact with these beings. Goku scales abive fuu and characters that can travel and destroy these realms and the people there

[@sonicthehedgehog1606]

Debunked

[@salted3807]

sonic live moment

[@thestickmansavioryt1941]

Sonic fr resisted narrative Transcendence from Erazor Djinn. And Sonic constantly interacted with real life in the Archie Comics.

[@DionAnims]

​@@thestickmansavioryt1941and you think xeno Goku doesn't have that

[@kiros3190]

@@ZXAdventyes

[@XicorEditzzzYt-sp6xt]

Honestly as a Xeno goku and archie sonic meat rider i feel like it would be a tie if they went full power because of there ability's and stuff people usually say "xENo gOkU sOLOs" Or "aRcHiE sOnIC nEGS!" But really nobody will ever know without the creators actually making an official statement..

[@marcussilos3025]

The fight can go anyway, they’re chance of winning are almost equal

[@porobotboyxxx]

5:37-5:44 Sonic was only capable of doing that due to the Super Genesis Wave being present. Ian Flynn and Eggman confirmed that it was the Super Genesis Wave that changed reality on a molecular level and when Sonic and Megaman tried to repeat the process in Worlds Unite they couldn’t replicate it, proving that the Super Genesis Wave did most of the heavy lifting.

[@user-ns9ve3lg3d]

No it didn't sonic and MegaMan's couldn't do it in worlds unite because 'reality is too messed up for chaos control to work' from sonic himself and besides the same chaos emeralds they use to transform is the same chaos emeralds use to make the super genesis wave.

[@porobotboyxxx]

@@user-ns9ve3lg3d It was confirmed by Ian Flynn and Eggman that the Super Genesis Wave was necessary that changed the continuity/cosmology. Plus the SGW was what unlocked the Chaos Emeralds true potential. Since the SGW wasn’t there for Sonic and Megaman to piggy back off they couldn’t warp reality again.

[@user-ns9ve3lg3d]

@@porobotboyxxx it was never said that the emeralds true potential could only be use by the SGW and lan Flynn said the SGW rebooted the cosmology because eggman interfere in sonic's chaos control not because sonic needed the SGW and eggman never said sonic needed the wave in fact eggman said that sonic messed up and worsen the effects of the SGW confirming that sonic could have fixed it with his own powerbeside when sonic taught MegaMan how to do chaos control he said'focus and build the energy' which means they used their own energy because building energy and syphoning energy are two different things and also chaos control has always been the ability to warp reality even in the games explained by shadow the hedgehog himself who literally introduce it.

[@porobotboyxxx]

@@user-ns9ve3lg3d Nice try, but the SGW was indeed crucial to warping the Multiverse. Ian Flynn noted it himself. Face it you’re not gonna change my mind or change the fact that SGW was needed for Sonic to warp his reality. Plus the whole point of the SGW was to bring out the Emeralds true potential, which means everyone else prior to using the Emeralds couldn’t do that.

[@user-ns9ve3lg3d]

@@porobotboyxxx megaman literally fixed his multiverse with his own power and sonic scales to him please read my full comment and do a proper debunk because I already talked about that thing in my comment. And yes some people like the ancient walker and even knuckles once have unlock the full potential of chaos energy in the past.

[@potturtle366]

so is bro not gonna mention ultra sonic??? 😔😢

[@Thad.jnr3872]

Damn, I completely forgot he didn't mention that 😭

[@coptartarcade1315]

Xeno goku doesn't have ui or god ki forms outside of limit breaker. the only goku from dragon ball heroes that would have ultra instinct would be CC goku since he's just the DBH goku that went through the events of super

[@ultrainstinctgokuhope7442]

​@@coptartarcade1315 and also movie by somereason

[@ultrainstinctgokuhope7442]

Also, doesn't ultra form drain you so much faster

[@Thad.jnr3872]

@@coptartarcade1315 nobody was talking about xeno goku having ui, he said that tempest didn't mention ultra sonic for some reason which is Archie sonics only form above super

[@user-mc7nc5fe2j]

can you pls do baryon mode vs ashura mode naruto with is the strongest form

[@user-yd2dj4lj1s]

I feel like you should have mentioned sonics ultra form which is even stronger than super and maybe hyper sonic as well hyper is 14x stronger than the super form and you should have also mentioned how xeno goku also has plot/fate manipulation

[@thehedgebot99mph90]

lil fact here. it is stated that the Super Genesis wave erased near enough anything Ken Penders worked on. Now in one comic called Sonic live, sonic reached into the real world and pulled ken penders' kids into the comic. This moment was erased from existence. meaning the Chaos Emeralds chaos control can reach into the real world and alter it easily. and since the gems are boundless in potential and power this is NOT THEIR LIMIT.

[@ningningfish06]

Imo xeno goku negs any version of sonic and its not close, also if a character has a higher dimension it shouldnt matter what hax the lower dimensional character has, they wont be affected

[@dadlh6394]

sonic can be counted as boundless

[@blacksaiyan1812]

My nai any archie characters that wields chaos magic whoops goku imma db fan and Ik that

[@dadlh6394]

@@blacksaiyan1812 chaos is brokeb

[@stephenfernangalang5963]

Is xeno Goku canon because Archie is

[@mrme.484]

ok but do archie sonic vs jump force goku now

[@Ultrontu]

This was a great video brotha I was curious with this video because people stay talking about Archie sonic like he is the god in every death battle which is not true I subscribe to your channel I like your style and that your not bias and you do your research keep this up man you probably should do battles that involve marvel to

[@severia24]

A few things, Demigra destroying infinite timelines, by destroying the time nest. The timelines are bound to the time nest which if destroyed disrupts all timelines aka xenoverse 1. that doesn't make demigra strong, early saiyan saga vegeta could do it. secondly demigra has magic and isn't completely based on strength, so you can't determine if all of his feats are magic based or power based. that being said destroying the timenest isn't a strong feat of either kind. I'm gonna keep editing it so I can talk with the video. Goku promised he wouldn't transform into ssj4, 2:15 was him right before he went into ssj4. He was between timelines when this occurred and his ssj4 was strong enough to influence timelines since he was on the outside of them. Towa is magic based, she's a scientist not a fighter. 3:15 a double dragon fist, it was xeno goku and xeno vegeta both in their limit breaker form. 3:35 are you saying because he has an ability on a game, he gets this ability in combat? By that logic vegito buu saga could compete with beerus because in dokkan battle he has 80% damage reduction, and gogeta's Effective when fighting any enemy and will do massive damage 100% of the time. 4:05 instead of showing that xeno goku is erasure proof, you show goku doing hakai from the dbs manga. that's not sound evidence for the statement. also time manipulation, you need to be showing something proving that. You can say the same about goku during the u7 and u6 arc because goku pushed through time with raw power, ssjb kaioken x10. but that was at the risk of damaging himself which it did 5:48 its not stated to be infinite, its asked because they cant see the limit of super sonic. Just because you dont know the limit of something doesn't make it infinite. Something that's truly infinite cannot be measured. I don't know much about archie sonic, but with how this goes ^ there's probably logical inconsistencies with archie sonic's info. Not displaying proof or evidence or a feat etc, or information misunderstood similar to how demigra destroying all timelines is just him destroying the time nest

[@kadexshidomuda8113]

Yeah I don't know why you wat there and lied lol. No where does it say he was gonna destroy the timelines through destroying the time nest. And the timelines being bound by say nest would just mean that they are a higher level of infinity. Them distributing it is in reference to them changing events or history. Nothing you said disproves any of the infinite infinite timelines argument and we can debate it.

[@kadexshidomuda8113]

Also his magic is his power and prove that he was using his magic???

[@severia24]

​@@kadexshidomuda8113 I assume you're talking about demigra, he's a magic user, your lack of knowledge on it doesnt make him not use magic.

[@kadexshidomuda8113]

@@severia24 Not only did you not prove that like the disingenuous rat you are. But prove that he can't scale his magic lol.

[@kadexshidomuda8113]

@@severia24 Also that's not true even then that wouldn't matter as we see when he uses an attack he uses ki and ki derives from magic. So when he uses his magic he would still scale to it. You are a rat.

[@brokenwrld2530]

Xeno Goku could literally wish Super Shenron to give him DBH Zamasu's regeneration (The same Zamasu who came back after being erased on a conceptual level. And yes, Shenron can grant immortality on that level. Shenron did it in canon and in heroes.) Archie Sonic wouldn't even be able to kill him lol.

[@JakeRider-wc6ke]

That is true

[@ra08.]

Firstly goku wouldn't do that cause he doesn't wanna get power for free as seen in the tree of might movie where he doesn't wanna eat the fruit, and secondly if archie sonic knew he was a threat he wouldn't let goju gather the dragon balls or let him live.

[@brokenwrld2530]

@@ra08. One. That's not even the same Goku. Xeno Goku is from the GT timeline. You're assuming that those Gokus have the same morals. Xeno Goku uses everything in his arsenal. Two: I know you don't know anything about DBH, but bare with me on this. Xeno Goku can use Super Shenron without the use of the Super Dragon Balls in the games. Shocking, I know. Xeno Goku is completely different in personality and power than the others.

[@ktononcent539]

my boi maybe u right xeno might beat archie sonic base form but he dosen't beat ultra archie sonic just know That he can modify and maipulate atom, create universe and more and i doubt That xeno goku could be immortal if he dosen't exist and personally in my opinion somebody even immortal can't survive if somene change is atoms and even if he do i dont Think he could do something if he became water or some like That

[@brokenwrld2530]

@@ktononcent539 Atomic Manipulation is Child's play. That's fodder to even DBS. And Xeno Goku has resisted MUCH worse than that. Archie Sonic just simply can't kill him for good.

[@porobotboyxxx]

11:32-11:48 Sonic’s “Fate Manipulation” is a controversial argument due to Mammoth Mogul claim of the Fates being by Sonic’s side has been debunked. Due to Merlin Prower, Sonic Encyclopedia (pgs. 45 and 90) and Ian Flynn’s explanations stating that the Ancient Walkers cursed Mammoth Mogul with the chaos emerald he was destined to find, where and when no matter what Mogul did he would never be successful of ruling all of existence. Plus Ian Flynn revealed that Mogul never figured that out.

[@Tempest1018]

Ight bro you’re dick eating now.

[@porobotboyxxx]

@@Tempest1018 I can prove it if you want? Also if something is too good to be true, it usually is.

[@vegito09]

It depends on what form you give goku and what you give Archie sonic

[@lutzwrede5225]

Yes like for ex ultra Archiv vs ssj4 limit breaker or if we include cc then ussjb vs ultra

[@mrmelonman2893]

so like you just not gonna mention ultra sonic?

[@Tempest1018]

Nope the video was archie sonic vs goku

[@mrmelonman2893]

@@Tempest1018 ultra sonic is an Archie sonic form 💀

[@IAMHIM1213]

I don't think ultra will make to much of a difference in this fight. Xeno goku has higher dimentiality

[@toonsdontmatter8327]

@@Tempest1018ultra sonic is in Archie comics

[@Tempest1018]

@@toonsdontmatter8327 i never claimed it wasn’t

[@wcom9999]

Dbs goku already Outer 😹 Xeno goku overkill dude

[@Abrold]

dbs goku isn't outer he is like complex mutiversal

[@wcom9999]

@@Abrold we can run the topic . Drop ur cord

[@shuurai8089]

xeno goku is boundless... what is archie sonic gonna do even against super goku?

[@CelestialSage-ik2ze]

6:02 No Way Bro Just Said “Ian Fly-On” 💀

[@Tempest1018]

Onb thats what it read in the scan then i realized it was “flynn” 💀💀

[@Flap_jacks69]

personally I heavily disagree especially with the scaling you granted goku and beats world, but scaling is subjective and down to interpretation vs interpretation good video all around tho.

[@sargentflippy9941]

Finally someone puts respect on xenos name, great video man! And honestly i like how you put two opinions so no ones mad

[@plasmaproductions2.023]

Fights should always end in death. I need an answer.

[@porobotboyxxx]

7:11-7:19 That’s debatable when comes to at a whim.

[@thebatman9628]

I used to act up if dbz lose these fight but honestly there is no real way of finding out who wins and we never will. Science is not gonna figure out who would win the fight between these 2 because we don't know what's gonna happen in the fight. It's basically whoever the writers of the characters want to win. All these fights do is cause people to fight in the comments and they never solve it. Calling each other bad names and that exactly why screw attacked was design for. But great video

[@uzookafor8721]

It would be a great battle, but xeno goku wins with mid to high diff

[@uzookafor8721]

@@ZXAdvent what happened

[@lllll260]

​@@ZXAdventand stats! His outer pretty casually

[@user-qh2nv8qw9p]

Sorry, but not, Xeno Goku can't beat even Base Sonic.

[@uzookafor8721]

@@user-qh2nv8qw9p the fact you said xeno goku cant beat base sonic is really wrong, base sonic is at best galaxy to multigalactic level. Normal goku from dragon ball super is low complex multiversal. Didnt you even watch the video

[@uzookafor8721]

@@ZXAdvent 😂😂😂 Xeno gokus hax and abilities: 1.probability manipulation 2.resistance to soul manipulation 3.high immesurable speed 4.zenki boost/ reactive adaptation 5.stats reduction 6. Healing 7.conceptional attacks(being able to damage concept like evil(janemba the living embodiment of evil). 8. Resistance to existence erasure 9 resistance to matter manipulation and reality warping. 10 flight 11. Mimicry 12.teleportation 13.telekenisis 14.telepathy 15 . Resistance to mental attacks. Theres more but this would do, xeno goku has more abilities than you think its not just ki attacks and kamehameha waves😂😂😂.

[@SCARLETTT555]

If only your voice didn’t sound the way it does, I really DID want to watch this the whole way through.

[@Tempest1018]

Bro what…

[@SourJest]

​@@Tempest1018because ur voice sounds lazy and emotionless

[@ssh4656]

I think that a fight between archie sonic and xeno goku will end with a tie or even if any of them wins the winner will het out of the fight almost dead

[@user-qh2nv8qw9p]

Well, Sonic in base form is stronger then Xeno Goku ( and before you said "dumb Sonic fan" let me explain. Let's start from powerscalling, NiGHTS is an Archetype, and that NID/Sonic has a collective unconscious. Void scales to MaginaryWorld as he one-shotted the PreciousStones, which contain every single dream in the GameVerse ( GameVers mean every story which was ever created: DC, Marvel, Anime vers and other). Archetypes are Beyond All Categories Of Numbers, Space, Time and Space-Time, which are also abolished which relatively means they are Beyond the Infinite Of Infinite Hierarchies Of Transfinite/Real/Imaginary/Complex Numbers meaning They are High Outerversal and Boundless easily. And this is only Base Form Void. Sonic Fought Final Form void who should scale above his Base. Base Sonic Characters should be capable of doing the same Feat to what Void did, which was one shotting the Precioustone. However Base Sonic should definitely scale far above Final Form Void via Insane Power Progression. They might as well be called Type 0 Ideas/Concepts because Archetypes checks the Type 1’s on all fours and surpasses it, not just a 1-A but High 1-A to Tier 0 infrastructures with the Hierarchies it is above them and being above all categories of numbers helps prove that case as well as being absolutely infinite hence above all sets and infinite Hierarchies. And Jungs Collective Unconscious>Archetype, that is easily Boundless and higher. That mean Sonic is High Boundless level and Tier-0, Base Sonic>Final Void>Base Void>>>>>>Archetype. Sonic have Irrelevant speed, he outrun Null Space which exist outside of dimension realm and even outside of Void, Sonic warp the whole Infinite Multiverse by just running, he’s able to be in multiple places at once because of After-Images, Sonic can perceive Eternity and act upon It instantly, Sonic can recreate the Eternity and SpaceTime continuum, he can time travel and he outrun time ( because he ignoring time stop ability), and as was mentioned in Sonic CD, Sonic warp time to save Amy, Sonic run though Infinite Multiverse and infinite dimensions without problem, Chaos Energy give user ability to broke every Law of Entity and physical possibilities, that mean Sonic can run faster than Irrelevant speed, Base Sonic>Irrelevant>Immeasurable> infinite. Sonic fight against Mohol and Enerjak which have Chaos Force that exists everywhere and make them infinite-omnipresent, that mean Sonic is infinite-omnipresent too. Sonic beat Infinite, Infinite becaming stronger with every second and that make him omnipotent, Sonic beat him, that mean he is high-omnipotent ( in Sonic Chronicles the dark Brotherhood Guidebook was mentioned that Sonic is omnipotent). Sonic can't be erased from existence or reality, because of Positive energy aura, Sonic can manipulate Hell and Heaven energy, that help him erase, destroy and rewrite soul. And lastly going back to that Sonic Live! Scan from This wide cosmology we’ve seen with Archie Sonic there’s a plethora of worlds beyond (this includes the actual “real” world as you will see). Sonic Gets Zapped into Barrier of His Worlds and The Actual Real World (and others) then goes back to his world with Penders’ kid and niece (yes i’m not lying). Chaos Force exists even in our real world. Knuckles Mentioned Sonic's ideas and mind reached him in the other plane coming back, a place supposedly outside of SpaceTime itself. And Aurora mentioned Knuckles was merging with the elements of Eternity (Meaning realms within the Chaos Force Are Eternal), Chaos Energy>>>>> Reality>Mind>SpaceTime. Chaotic Nature/ Forces/Objects are things in an State of Chaos. With Chaos Made by Chaos or of relation to it Basically their so unique and ominous Idealism and all things Platonic fail to describe them. Sonic's Fate and Casual Hax seems to effect on the Quantum Level and even Chaos Math. The Sonic Verse has Imaginary, Real, Transcendent, Binary and Complex Numbers. Which means even Without Archetypes, Transfinite Mathematics quarantines the Infinite Of Infinite Hierarchies which is high Outerversal-Boundless. Cyber Spaces with Binary Representations and Numbers Which are also Told to be Information Super-Highways with Data, Electronics and Downloading/Processes Which Means Various Numerical and Binary Concepts. Millions To Endless Multiverses according to This Archie Sonic: Night Of Tails “Chosen One”. Sonic was capable of destroying everything in existence. One regular Universe in Sonic versis much bigger then whole DB Omniverse. Sonic can absorb every type of energy. Sonic can ignore every type of mental attack and soul manipulate. Sonic can Vibrate at different Frequencies and use them to Phase Shift and Bypass Fields, Molecules Or Slip Molecules through Other Objects That Are even Indestructible. Sonic in Secret Rings tanked an Infinite Multiverse that had Astral Planes and Metaphysical with Tier:0 collapsing on him like it was nothing and he didn’t even consider it and this was an Sonic who hit with the Judgement of Flame which was slowly killing him throughout the whole game from the start to the final fight and Sonic looked like he was about to have a heart attack at the end and babyspanked Erazor Djinn who negged his own Author, the same Author who created the Astral Planes and Metaphysical and was the main character of his Multiverse and that guy shit himself when he found out that Djinn, his creation was hunting him. Sonic could already resist Erazor's plot manipulation, so he had to abide by the wishes that Sonic granted. Erazor had avoided his own fate all that time ago, but even that so, Base Sonic beat him. Also, Erazor's henchmen scale above King Solomon, who is referred to as the Chosen One in the Quaran religion, who was given the control over all of the djinn over all of existence over the Arabian Nights under a nigh-omnipotent god. Despite all of that, Solomon declares that Erazor was godlike compared to himself. Erazor like Milkman Man from DC comics, they're both rogue narratives that are seperate from their own continuities. Sonic beat Merlina the Wizard, she is Creator level of power, she said "This World was meant to be A Realm Of Ideals for All. Lets make an Eternal, Unchanging, and Immortal Kingdom. The Dreamer’s And Everyones Worlds, worlds where everyone creates, dreams of and Interacts with an ideal world, eternal, unchanging realms of unending prosperity Creation where kingdoms never end...", Eternal, unchanging, ideal, Immortal are all parts of Plato’s Forms. Merlina, the “creator of Forms” would likely scale up to this or even above it being the creator of it all. Sonic would follow/top up since he has beaten her in battle. Sonic beat characters who beat their own Author and rewrite their Infinite Multiverse ( actually, Erazor could destroy, rewrite or manipulate with 1001 Infinite Multiverse, with infinite dimensions, realms and Timelines ) and have Plot Manipulation, but Sonic beat them ( and I still don't say anything about Solaris, who is Super Dimensional Lifeform, he destroy Infinite Multiverses and Space-Time Continuum, Enerjak, Master Mohol and The End, which scale above all of them permanently). Sonic can destroy Bestseller stories like "Moby Dick or the Whale" and "Three Musketeers" as a fiction. Sonic is writer, he can give any abilities to himself and change story as he wish, in "Sonic Off Panel" shown that Narrations Submitted in Mails and Etc are ideas in the stories, can Manipulate Stories as proposed ideas on Synopsis, Sonic Even plays His own Video Games and stay above of authors, Sonic show that he has the power to alter the story or reality in each comic book to the writer's liking or his own liking. So basically he also has storybreaking powers that can defeat plot devices and manipulates. All what I mentioned is only Base Sonic feats, and I don't take to attention Sonic special weapons ( like Sword of Acorns, Excalibur, World Rings, Shahra wish ring and so on ). Sonic even don't need Super form or any other form here. Base Sonic>>>>>Xeno Goku, if someone is disagree, I am ready to hear your arguments ( but I think it is hard to be disagree with Base Sonic>>>>>Xeno Goku after all what I said ).

[@kaystruenoo]

if the xeno goku scale doesn't hit high outer then the scale is wrong automatically

[@Tempest1018]

This isn’t true either. Lol

[@kaystruenoo]

@@Tempest1018 ask about the universe tree and the multiple super dimensional statements.

[@Tempest1018]

@@kaystruenoo yk super dimension doesn’t mean you’re outer right?

[@kaystruenoo]

it does in the context of japanese wording. Words don't have 1:1 meanings goingg from english to japanese. Terms like super dimensional and extra dimensional denote something beyond higher dimensionality in general meanwhile in the english lexicon super/extra dimensional refers to stuff like 5D+ .@@Tempest1018

[@Tempest1018]

@@kaystruenoo thats never stated even within the Japanese kanji.

[@IDidntAskAtAll]

If y'all really think sonic holds a candle to any Goku y'all sniffin too much coke

[@FainactifFR]

I pretty damn sure you don't actually know who or what is an "Archie Sonic" and don't care enough to learn about him, which is fair.

[@Goji-C]

Classic tempest W keep grinding goat

[@rimurutempest9733]

Hey how you feel about sonic new form in frontiers with blue eye's and red aura with lighting since it's most likely stronger than super from in evey way

[@bluekzx]

did you mention Archie sonic other form with the atom thing around him since that exsist

[@bluekzx]

ultra form