Are Art Youtubers LYING to You? (Full-Time Artists or Just Influencers?) || SPEEDPAINT + COMMENTARY

[@Essential_lyNothing]

This is why I don't want to dedicate my entire career to art - but rather something like video game design that involves some art skills alongside other things. I don't think I'd be successful soley on art.

[@ZarinuLoren]

I thought about taking commisiions, but I have so many my own ideas so I decided, nah, I don't want that xD I respect people who become full-time artists and are able to make living out of it, but I think I'll just burn out if I try to do that. And I don't want to lose my love for drawing since it's my way to escape for a bit and chill.

[@LuznoLindo]

That is why I'm glad I never went to college for art. It would've just been an "all eggs in one basket" situation.

[@fivetopoint]

noticing how a lot of these art topics are very gray in nature has been really eye-opening to me genuinely! my kneejerk reaction to this topic was "yeah of course" but as the video goes on its actually "most of the time they aren't, it just depends on how relevant the advice is to you" (and more importantly "goddamn stop dogpiling artists") (which unfortunately has become a running trend in these videos SDHGKDS) and ohhh my god this and ur other videos made me realize how much i should stop and think. topics like these are never that black and white and are. way more nuanced than what your first impression is

[@vibrantgleam]

me, who's just a hobbyist and watching everything unfold.

[@LuznoLindo]

Likewise. My real-life job pays be handsomely, anyway.

[@cyclesproductions]

Oh yes

[@ericaallisonc]

@@LuznoLindosame. As a professional artist I was maxing out at $13 an hour, which was only .25 cents more than minimum wage in my area. Now I’m working in the automotive business and started out making $28 an hour. 😂

[@mlscribe7274]

I think my problem is one youtuber (I dunno/don't think it what the firestarter) that I saw talk recently about this situation basically said not only are you not a "fulltime" artist if you sell business/art content creation advice, but also you aren't a "real" artist if your art isn't being presented/shown in a gallery. This thought is very gatekeeping and I think incorrect.

[@MS-ne6ld]

Oh I watched this one yesterday and have been writing a comment in my mind explaining all the ways in which they're wrong since then. My fave part was when they claimed content creators on KZbin wanted to be "real" fulltime artists and failed. It had such a limited view of what being an artist means in this day and age, as well as historically. I've never studied art history, but I'm pretty sure art galleries are a relatively new phenomenon, as well as earning your money from exhibiting your work in this manner.

[@Axiasart]

this is exactly the mindset of people who complain about full time artists who are youtubers and content creators because most of their income doesn't come from their art its so stupid and ignorant imo

[@Kaileighblue]

The problem I had with firestarter for this situation is that a lot of people online, not just artists, try to claim they have a career in their field but they're really just trying to sell courses so it has a bad taste. I don't know what the original person had in their course but I know of so many situations where it's just "copy me and make a youtube page selling people courses." It's what Andrew Tate does. It's what a lot of crypto and other finance people do. I haven't seen any discussion since the first video about it so I don't know what others have been saying but that's what I took from the situation. Not that you can't do other things than art and not be an artist, but that you're trying make money selling people the idea of being an artist based on how much money you make trying to sell people the idea of being an artist.

[@stonescorpio]

Honestly, most of the accusations left me baffled. I've worked freelance as an editor, and no one ever would have suggested that I wasn't an editor just because I spent half my time writing proposals for jobs, discussing things with clients, building my own website, managing my finances, etc. I think visual artists get held to an unfair standard due to the romanticized view people hold of the profession.

[@p1_dreamin828]

you worded this so perfectly 🙏

[@devinsauls9137]

I know you're not a liar Duchess Celestia, but yeah KZbinrs be lying girl!

[@NotnotADHD]

Just be careful, the Internet makes it way easier to lie so even if your trust someone, if it's important or will have possibly harmful ramifications then double check it

[@tofuneito]

i genuinely can't tell if this is sarcastic or not 😭

[@devinsauls9137]

@@tofuneito I'm being serious sadly. I know all too well what it's like watching and supporting someone you thought was chill and cool only for that person to turn out to be a sellout, traitor or scammer! That's why I don't trust people automatically and keep them at arm's length

[@tofuneito]

@@devinsauls9137 true! some of my favorite KZbinrs got called out for either some unhinged behavior or dark past that they've been desperately trying to hide. it's sad what clout chasing does to someone.

[@devinsauls9137]

@@tofuneito Yeah. 2024 truly is the year of Exposure

[@EmoKitsuneDesigns]

A very valid take on the whole situation. And as we all know KZbin pushes all of us the exact same videos, and I have been recommended all of the same types of art videos touting how much they make selling art and I can confirm with what you said is true. Most are transparent with how much income comes from multiple sources. I will say though, content creators who make most of their income not with their artwork rubs me personally the wrong way because there are artists out there making more than 50% of their income with just their art and those are the artists who need to be giving advice on how to do art full time not the other guys. Selling art on merch, and selling art tutorials, selling brushes, etc. to me still counts as making money through art. But the thing about KZbin sponsorships is they don't care about whether or not the KZbinr is an artist they want access to their followers that they garnered by being a good influencer not because of their art imo. It is a different skill entirely which is why I am a little more harsh on not counting as a valid option for artists who want to be full time. But honestly who cares, it's tough out there and whatever artists need to do to get out of a 9 to 5 is more important.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

"and whatever artists need to do to get out of a 9 to 5 is more important." - yeah, god forbid they tried to actually work, like other people, from whom they try to get money for their artworks, when they can't reach the level of income when they can quit the 9-5 job. An artist whining they need to pay bills goes onto my black list permanently.

[@tigerezz_OW]

I have worked as a illustrator on a company, and i can say it's not easy even if it's fun that you go there to do art, you have to finish projects in time. If i was 10 minutes late, i work 10 minutes extra so i can get paid good. But even so, if i want to make a living by doing art, i can't quit and expect that things will go easy from there. The job can be stressfull+if you have such as youtube, you must think "can i do this, can i handle the stress?"

[@gridman2742]

What drove me crazy about that original video that kicked this off was the assertion that the art KZbinrs are running a "pyramid scheme." It was very clear very fast that the creator doesn't even know what a pyramid scheme even is. If you're gonna bother accusing people of stuff, maybe look up the definition first.

[@cheshiressecret]

I think the pyramid scheme part of the blow up that happened is because so many MLM boss babes are going the "buy my course that teaches you how to sell the exact same course" rout and that was the connection made by the creator of the original call out video. What I saw was a young artist who got the wind knocked out of them when reality hit for how hard things are in the art world and probably was pretty deep in their feelings when they saw that a creator found footing in a niche that they felt they didn't belong in since it was shown that no new art had been made in several months. Sure, there very well could have been, but in this day and age of technology people forget that artists don't always have to post or record what they are working on. So I can see why they felt that the other creator wasn't a " real full time artists" since many assume that would mean there would be more art or process of art making being posted. I also think the creature in the call out that everyone is focused on got in their feelings as well because they were used to it looing like everyone liked them and they were a big help in the community...until that video came out and they realized that wasn't the case. It feels like one big case of a lot of bubbles getting busted all at once. Personally, those kinds of videos aren't my thing because I feel like those who make them just talk in circles without getting to any real point or helpful advise.

[@Axiasart]

Like she said they are not the majority so it's disingenious to generalize that. The creator making the pyramid scheme video was just hateful the little work they put didn't get them the success their delusion told them and wanted to complain about people who made it.

[@dampfanator]

Just like game dev channels that do single concept videos with pre packaged assets lol so easy to make games!

[@NightingalesSong]

I didn't watch the original video that started the discussion, but judging by the summaries in the comment sections of response videos, I sense an attitude of entitlement from those labeling these artists as scammers and showing a lack of self-reflection. Success doesn't come instantly just by following advice or tips, and instead of being upset about artists sharing alternative income streams, people should focus on educating themselves rather than solely relying on KZbin videos. As an artist myself (my main income comes from teaching art, but I also table at conventions, promote art supplies for brands, take commissions, and do most of my work offline), I agree with you that there’s a significant issue with understanding and awareness in the community. This reminds me of the harmful statement that an artist's success must be due to 'talent,' which completely disregards the hard work artists put into their craft. Many artists already struggle with promoting themselves and their art, so why make it harder by spreading oversimplified opinions? When successful artists showcase the multifaceted aspects of a creative career - like being their own manager, promoter, and networking coordinator - it highlights how versatile and capable they truly are. I do watch KZbin for tips myself and have seen 'selling' videos, but it's really not that hard to identify scam content. If someone relies solely on one source for advice, they're likely doing something wrong and shouldn’t blame the entire art advice community.

[@Axiasart]

you are totally right, the orignal video was mainly a young artist whining about not reaching the success they expected from the little work they put it and blaming established youtubers for it. I consume A LOT of youtube art content, my take on this is just people blaming youtubers to not giving them the success "they promised". It's not that hard to find content suitable for the kind of artist they want to become

[@Kutiekittylove]

As someone who watched the art business youtuber in question WAY before the drama happened. I always found her video's advice to be shallow even the youtube advice bc she never had a YT channel that even featured her art. So how could she give filming advice, consistency advice, how to drive them to your site/art page advice if she never did that for a significant period of time. I don't care how she makes money but I do need to know she used YT consistently to get people to see and interact with her art elsewhere. So it was useless on both fronts smh I just didn't feel she had the depth of personal experience needed to base a whole channel on "art youtube channel building" business advice not to mention offering courses. It was stale and lacked variety to suit the many potential artists she may be mentoring. That was the problem for me. I would watch the video and be disappointed with a nothing sandwich so I told YT not to recommend me her videos. I've since then found art youtubers and podcasters that have diverse incomes, including having a 9-5 that give better advice for what I'm trying to pursue.

[@PutineluAlin]

I'll just post what I've posted somewhere else. If what you sell is only advice regurgitated from other youtubers in that workshop then it has the same value as a ted talk you see online. The market is ever changing so any advice you give to people may not be relevant when they will apply that advice. I'm tired of paid courses that have no value and being burned to many times leads to hate on every person who make that sort of course regardless if they have value or not.

[@mariatorres-by6du]

I get that making a living with art means speanding most of your time with stuff that isn't art, but I do think there is a point I have not seen a lot of people talk about, and that is audience. The "problem" with art youtubers that give advice is that most of the audience are artist, so their expirience on building an income comes from selling to other artist, but are they able to sell know how to appeal to non artist? To take the examples from this video, both comission artist and convention artist sell to non-artist (despite the fact that they sell to people with a clear interest on art and some might be artist themselves). There's also the whole algorithm thing, that if you look up how to make money as an artist you'll get mostly videos from art youtubers that present their perspective, rather than videos that present the several ways one can try to become an artist. I tried to find out how to make t-shirts one time and got a bunch of videos about how to become a millionare selling print on demand t-shirts, so I get how a young artist could fill discourage if they were trying to look up advice and all they kept getting the "you need to sell a course on how to get your skill". There are channels of different types of artist that make money in different ways, but those are usually harder to find.

[@ed2fun]

Are 2 things people needs to understand, 1) make money means a commercial activity, have artistic skills is not related with it, you NEED to understand how business works, your art will just become a product you sell, but the main activity is still the mastering of skills related with commercial transactions and models. 2) YOU CAN NOT DO IT OVERNIGHT, you can probably make an illustration in hours but after finish it will take you much more time to get money from it, all will vary depending of your own particular circumstances, skills and opportunities. CONCLUSION: being good or bad at art isn't related with how much or how long takes you to get money, if you want money you must devolop business skills in addition to improving your artistic skills.

[@Darkkan13]

People think if you're "good" people come find you. Sure that might happen to a few people but most people who are self employed/freelance (artist, writers, indie game developers, etc) have to wear different hats. Seller, promoter/marketer, accountant, etc. Depending on the person/group, some jobs take longer or are shorter but it eats into time where the person is creating.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

No one is denying that. But for me a person, who claims most of their money comes from sponsorship and YT and they OCCASIONALLY do art and sell it are not full time artists. They can be artists - just not full time.

[@Axiasart]

@@marikothecheetah9342 I disagree really, that would mean only artists working in studios/galleries or do commissions only are full time artists? If it's your idea you should only look at those type of artist. As long as their main activity is around being an artist they are a full time artist even if they only occasionally have to do art.

[@AHylianWarrior]

You gave better advice in a quick line than they did in their entire video which is to draw fanart and sell it lol Selling courses is scummy (education should be free, it is in my country which is Scotland) and telling people the way to gaining success is through youtube and sponsors is dishonest as that can be for any career. People want to know about art-centric stuff, not things that are way too broad like youtube. Advice like how to sell your art and whether chasing trends is profitable or not are valid to an art career, for example

[@pleurnicheuse1]

I mean we all know the names. Usually, these scandals escape me, but even i know this one.

[@tocasmiley360]

For some reason, I have no idea who this is even about lol

[@gkdair1413]

@@tocasmiley360 Same, no clue what old drama this is but now it's bugging me that I somehow missed all of it.

[@zinzolin14]

@@tocasmiley360 same, no idea who they're referring to and it's worrying me

[@jeremyyates1026]

For everyone who may not know the channel shes referring to I'm assuming its kelsey Rodriguez. A smaller youtuber (who I never heard of before this btw) tried to say she was running a pyramid scheme and doesn't make art. This is false shes very transparent about where her niney comes from as well as she does sell prints so she still does make money from art just not as much as her courses and videos. Shes still an artist tho her content leans more towards teaching art business but art is still a major factor.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

If someone tries to be an artist full time on the get go, without any support money from at least part-time job they are incredibly naive. On the other hand a lot of artists on KZbin are very often just money-chasers who happen to do art. If you don't profit in majority from your art you are not a "full time artist" - you are a full time "influencer/youtuber/anything else BUT an artist". I am not a full time polyglot JUST because I use languages at my job, my primary work is just punching data into computer. I do communicate in other languages but I am not a teacher/scholar etc. that in majority works with and on languages. Also repeating over and over that so-called artists don't hide that their majority of income does not come from art, while using titles like: how do I earn money as a... FULL TIME ARTIST and then proceeding to explain, that actually they don't earn majority of their art but sponsorships and whatever scam they try to sell is just pathetic. Sorry, just because you put somewhere in a pile: oh, I SOMETIMES do commission doesn't make you a full time artists and I do understand the uproar - it is lying. They are not full time artists. They are a wanna-be influencer or KZbinrs, who HAPPEN to do art sometimes.

[@potatopotayto8332]

a lot of them are yep! if you pay attention, most of their content is about developing an art career but you rarely *see* them develop said career. i think one of those youtubers (not gonna namedrop) had like a single painting in their shop

[@potatopotayto8332]

point is if you're an artist be careful out there. ESPECIALLY if they're trying to recruit you (as a student, assistant etc) or sell you a course!

[@brunobitow3327]

i live in brazil, if i could make 1000 USD a month, i would be rly happy (at least in the current situation), i can't make much now but hopefully that can change

[@katriaraden]

I’m not sure this video covers the exact problem people have and which is worth discussing. The labels we apply to ourselves when acting as educators in a space greatly affect how our advice is perceived and how much gravitas our words hold. You noted this a few times but then quickly switched the subject to whether someone who’s their own accountant in their freelance biz can consider themselves an artist. Was this ever in question? The main issue here is that youtube and internet in general is overwhelmed with artists and/or content creators jumping into educator roles too soon, without real experience to back it or being too eager to apply their limited experience to every possible field. Term full-time artist means very little. One might be a book illustrator, game illustrator, shop owner, convention artist, fine artist, comic artist… And none of these categories come with the same challenges, even though there might be overlap. I don’t think these people who jumped into educator roles too soon and too blindly are malicious in intent in any way, but it’s unhelpful at the very least. Beginners can’t easily sus out what might apply to their desired field of work and what absolutely does not. I do appreciate how the main person being discussed in the OG video changed their wording from full-time artist to art youtuber in titles, and IMO it doesn’t need to go any further than that. Their advice is still valuable for those looking to get into content creation, because they do have REAL experience when it comes to that.

[@Axiasart]

I think it's the responsibility of the viewer to decide what advice apply to their situation but to blame those full time artists of scam for it especially when most are not selling a course is just hateful, looks more like they are looking for someone to blame for their struggle than anything. I don't think the question was the one you explain here, most of these educators at least the ones I saw never gave advices to anything more than their own field so I don't think the part your said "eager to apply their limited experience to every possible field" a comic artist will only speak of comic and etc

[@katriaraden]

@ Yeah, the viewer should definitely carry some responsibility here. But let’s not forget most of the viewers seeking out “how to make it as a full time artist” are usually either inexperienced, desperate or both. And people positioning themselves as such educators largely DO make money from their advice (ad-sense) or courses (yes, they mostly do offer courses or paid tutorials, or paid consultations). I’m not saying they are scammers, I’m saying a lot of them don’t know what they are doing. They jumped into teaching because they’ve been told (and shown) that brings in viewers and engagement. So now you have a lot of “blind leading the blind” situations. And to your last point, yes there are artists sticking to their fields when it comes to teaching and those are mostly legit, experienced professionals. Not the case for types of videos and educators discussed in the video which sparked this whole controversy - which boils down to “how much money I make as a full-time artist” “how to become a full-time artist” and then showing their income from educational content creation.

[@koteleskristof]

in my opinion the problem is that these creators are giving out technical art advice as well, which makes no sense since their technical skills often aren’t the reason why they’re successful. They could not make money based on their art skills, so selling courses and making tutorials is misleading. I personally have never clicked on one of your videos because of your art, I click on them because of the titles and topics

[@booleah6357]

Honestly this whole thing isn't that different from art school. At least speaking anecdotally and from what others I've seen have said most art teachers don't actually make a living off of their art just the skills they teach and promote. Also consider that if everything is art so is the person doing influencer type stuff so detractors lose the argument from the outset if they accept the everything is art philosophy.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

What they do is: sustain themselves via normal job and are artists in their free time. They do earn money from their art, they are just very pragmatic about this and never claim they are full time artists. They are full time art teachers and sell art on the side - something wanna-be artists are whining about, because for them the idea of a normal job and earning money like everyone else and not by "doing what I LOVE so much!" is unfathomable. I respect those art teachers more than any whining artists, that cry about their bills but don't ever move their butt and even have a part time job to sustain themselves.

[@booleah6357]

@marikothecheetah9342 I think the pragmatism is very correct and honestly makes sense because the alternative is being delusional about how the world works. As for those art teachers I wouldn't say I respect them but it would depend on the situation. College is expensive and ideally it's meant to get you a job in the field your degree is in to make money and many art teachers lie about how hard it can actually be and the nature of working in an art field. Influencers do this too of course but there is one difference namely that the influencers tend to be a bit more pragmatic about the possibilities and give actual actions or advice from their experience actually out in the field. At least from what I've seen at least.

[@friendlyneighborhoodartist]

I love this video, I love your opinion about this. It's SO helpful.

[@magpiesoddities]

Just a heads up, the volume was rather low for thos video for some reason

[@NicmationS_YT]

I agree with all the points you made in the whole video thank you

[@ArmaBiologica35]

Yes, moving on

[@peterxyz3541]

Which is why I trust Kooleen because she is self proclaimed “clout chaser”, making art vid to chase numbers 😂😂😂👍❤️

[@Wallish-q3n]

Love the webcomic!!

[@KatsudonArt]

There is this polished trout - I forget his name but his hair is always messy. He talks about how to make money on art then he dropped a big, rancid, and putrid sentence. He looks up to and idolizes Tai Lopez.... Tai freaking "hear in my garage" & "knowledge" lopez. What a gtiefter.

[@elisaelisaross]

I am glad that my comments about Squarespace missing have been aknowledge and I will not stop (unless you Celestia ask me, I don't want them to become annoying so in that case just tell me)

[@Noob_LoI]

Hawk Tuah

[@proklx]

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