Are Bedrock planes really better? // Affordable handtool woodworking.

Does the rare and expensive Bedrock plane offer the bang for its buck? Watch and see!
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[@jodyburton0351]

I'm the proud owner of a Bedrock #604 smoother. I found it at a yard sale and they wanted $15 for it. I couldn't say, "Would you take $12?" fast enough.

[@GregorKropotkin-qu2hp]

Where do you live?!

[@dlevi67]

Would they? ;-)

[@tomgarcia9200]

bahahaha god bless you

[@ronhau1542]

😮❤

[@bostontricker211]

Lucky, I found a bedrock no 607 for $50

[@Cadwaladr]

Bailey is good enough for Paul Sellers, so it's good enough for me.

[@howardcameron2551]

True, but Paul Sellers is like the pool shark that says he will play you using only a mop handle.😆

[@kennnva551]

I've fallen in love with another Paul Sellers plane brand ... Record. Avoid the later "Irwin Record" planes and you're pretty much guaranteed hefty, straight hand planes. I have a few Stanley planes, but rarely use 'em anymore.

[@archiebf4524]

He also uses Aldi chisels lol

[@allanwolfe6071]

@@kennnva551 Not sure about Record. If vintage, probably great. The new Record Tools I see on the market these days are Harbor Freight quality. I wouldn't buy them.

[@kennnva551]

@@allanwolfe6071 You're correct about the newer models. I avoid the Record-Irwin line up, but the original series and the Record-Marples variety of planes are very good. Record and Stanley were both manufactured in Sheffield, England, but the Record castings were a little more robust. One fellow recently told me his Record #05 weighs about a pound more than his Stanley #5.

[@jonesey1981]

You're outlook on this hobby is so refreshing, really appreciate the time you take sir.

[@mikescheve429]

I picked up a Bailey #4 at a swap meet (like you suggested) and restored it (based on your videos). I got that plane for $1. Just last week I saw a Bed Rock 604 for $75. Thanks to this video, I took a pass. Thanks for saving me money Rex!! I appreciate all the great information for us beginners. 👍

[@duncan94019]

Leave it to the "cork sniffers." I love it! And I will leave the Bed Rocks to the cork sniffers.

[@RexKrueger]

Probably a good idea!

[@kdouglaslee]

@@RexKrueger Lol, brother, you're holding a Bedrock you paid a lot of money for at the same time you deride it as being for "cork sniffers"! It's okay to like something and pay extra money for it because it's just cool.

[@Kikilang60]

Everyone should have idea what's out there. Recently, I was looking at this plane, and the body was red, while the frog was black. It looked very well made, but I didn't recognize the name. Then I looked further, and there was plane with a black body, and a red frog. This one was stamped Miller Falls. Neither look used once, and someone had an idea to switch the frogs around. Both were Miller Falls, but one was made for another company. The guy wanted twenty five, which was the going price, except they were new, never used. I only had the money for one, so I got the black bodied Miller Falls. It was smoothing plane, and work as nice as your willing to sharpen the blade. After the lock down is over, I'll go and see if the other one is there. Why spend money, when cheaper works just as good? Still, sometimes people sell stuff, and they have no idea what it is. Honestly, if you can find a Norris smoothing plane, and it's cheap. Cool, it great to be informed. If you did find a Norris plane, you could sell it, and but new cork sniffers.

[@jlmfoy365]

Call me dumb but I would have thought what is most important is a very sharp blade 😂. Regards Jim UK

[@RickBoat]

So, no, unless pehaps you ever ever will only own one plane.

[@erickuehne4194]

Great analysis. I have a 5 for dimensioning, a 7 for flattening, and a 4 for smoothing which takes care of all my bench plane needs. One thing you didn't discuss is how good a plane do you need for a given task. I have a bailey 5 which works great for dimensioning. My 7 is a Clifton that I got a great deal on but I question the value of the bedrock design for flattening. The one place I want pretty much the best plane possible is my smoother. That's the most finicky application and that's why I have a LN bronze 4.

[@Storoit]

I paid $38 for my Bailey no 4 on ebay. Seller said it needed work. When I got it I touched up the blade and tried it out. PERFECTION! I plan to clean it up at some point, but I kinda like the patina. I also picked up a no 5 rust bucket for $10 at a flea market. It was rusted up so bad I had to replace the blade and chip breaker ($12 on eBay) and after doing a complete restoration it is the jewel of my shop. Special prominent shelf and all!! Love the channel and your content.

[@Peter-pu7bo]

Get two Stanley No 4 if you need a very narrow mouth and set on up as usual and one with the narrow mouth. Switching is even faster and you save money.

[@jeffbarnett7704]

Got my first hand plane about 2 weeks ago. You channel has been very helpful. Thanks so much. Keep up the good work

[@glencrandall7051]

I'm a turner so not much of a hand plane guy. But your comparison of the two types seems quite comprehensive to me. It would appear your conclusions are very accurate. Thank you for sharing.

[@josephhudock3831]

Old Stanley catalogs have the Bedrock planes priced at ten percent more than Bailey planes. In the video that's also your assessment of the difference in performance between the two. Current market prices are of course now driven by the cork sniffers.

[@philclennell]

You can adjust the non-bedrock version on the fly by just moving the frog forward. Assuming everything is tight - but not too tight - it all works fine and nothing moves. I think Paul Sellers mentions this in one of his tutorials. I've tried it and it works!

[@zacjohnson19]

Love the Bailey I got for $15 AUD. Cleaned up nice and cuts great

[@chaplainand1]

Hi Rex Thank you for this video. A friend of mine has a bedrock plane. I reworked it last year for his 15 yo daughter to use. Her grandpa owned it I think. Because of this video, I now know how to adjust it properly. How cool is that!? Blessings to you and yours, all those who love you and all those you love.

[@walterrider9600]

thank you Rex

[@todanic]

I got my Bedrock 1920's #(60)4 1/2 for 60 euro, 1930's #(60)5 1/2 for 40 and #(60)7 for 200 (it was literary unused, mint condition 1935 model, I could not resist i and love to use this plane). You can find them cheaper if you are lucky. But to be honest, recently when I look for "Bedrock" on ebay I usually find a set of screws, cap iron or just sole for those prices now. Maybe it's the central banks money printing hitting old collectibles with high inflation first ;)

[@andrietsa]

Until recently I have only had wooden, continental style handplanes. While thriftshopping I found my first Stanley plane a No. 65 blockplane. Imagine the rush I got when I realized that I would only have to spend 4 swiss bucks for such a magnificent tool! Damn good day that was!

[@TomBuskey]

I have 2 #3 stanley planes. One is a Bailey, the other is a Handyman, their cheaper line post WWII. It doesn't have the frog adjustment screw. The lever cap doesn't have the shim under the lever. But the handyman seems to work better for me. Don't count the down market ones out. I have a #6 dunlop which is a cheaper, rebranded stanley (I think). It's a great shooter and cost less than the stanley at the flea. So when do we get the vintage vs new super premium? Oh wait! You did that with the low angle jack video and showed the little improvements in the Veritas. You should have brought the wood fairies back for the bedrock!

[@paulr2389]

Thanks for clearing up something that puzzled me about my #4 (Type 13, 1920s, corrugated)... Paid about $10 for it at a garage sale and it has "Bed Rock" on the cap, but the base says "Bailey". Hah! I guess someone found a cap to up-scale the thing! Minor restoration and it works great either way for this amateur. :)

[@1deerndingo]

1. What a bed of hornets you'll have stirred up with that one! But, you're right. Maybe a person who's on the tools 5 days a week, 8 hours a day as a profession might justify it, but most others don't and won't notice any real difference. 2. Absolutely love the term "cork sniffer". I'm using that one. I'll give you credit for it though.

[@testuser3167]

Except if a Bailey #4 is good enough for Paul Sellers to use for 50 years for hours a day, I seriously doubt many others would truly be able to justify the difference. He makes a point the most folks issues with their planes are that they didn't sharpen them properly or often enough, and after that, the differences probably fall into the "user skill" category, which won't matter what tool is used.

[@GrantHendrick]

Thank you for another great video!

[@polrbr734]

Great video. I love this history and the setup tip. Well done.

[@TimRoyalPastortim]

Totally agree... I have one 605 that I genuinely like, but it cost me $40 and my #5 type 11 is easily as effective but it cost about the same after I spent the time to restore it. In practical use I would rather have a low knob Bailey than a high knob Bedrock.

[@andreahall8378]

As always very informative and interesting, Rex, which we all know don't always come in the same package. I went to check on The Handplane book and for a change the hardcover was cheaper! Of course when I go to buy it, it'll be back to normal.

[@crmcbrideww]

Here's a video idea and one that I've thought about for a long time. Let's say you had $100 to spend a number 4 plane. Is it better to get a $50 plane and buy a $50 Lee Nelson iron or just buy a $100 plane? Which one is better?

[@lindenblock]

Or a Hock iron that isn''t made of A(ggravating)2 steel.

[@Vincent-S]

I'd still like to try out a Bedrock for the experience (one day I might be able to land a Keen Kutter K5. One day), but I can agree that "collector mindset and influence" can affect perceptions between the two. That said, a Bailey with a Bedrock style of mouth adjustment would be nice.

[@MatthewBuntyn]

I've been trying to find a good K-series plane for a while. One day…

[@davidhutchins3986]

I have a corrugated kk5 and it's nothing special. It does have a thicker iron than a Bailey but doesn't perform noticeably better

[@MatthewBuntyn]

@@davidhutchins3986 "K" not "KK" Ks were made by Stanley, & were based on the Bedrock design

[@Vincent-S]

@@MatthewBuntyn I think they also have a Bailey style of mouth adjustment since they were patterned off the early Bedrock design, which is pretty cool.

[@RafaelHe]

The Stanley Bailey type 7 or 8, or thereabouts, has a frog mating surface that is larger than later models. So it could be said it has some bedrock characteristic. photos.app.goo.gl/xWV1bWhJz4rV6dnN8

[@tabhorian]

I mean how often do you change the mouth size? It's a nice to have, for sure, but really, once it is tuned and you get used to it, even good with it. I'm so glad you did this comparison.

[@MichaelCampbell01]

Love it. I like to think I'm a woodworker, but I'll admit to some tool collecting and I do have an unnatural desire to have some Bed Rocks. But if I'm honest, I'll have to admit that you nailed it with your "woodworking cult" comment - that is so totally accurate. I'll settle for ogling at yours for now though; my high end tool buying I think has stopped at some Steve Knight woodies. Lie Neilsen et. al. I'd love to have, but I can't justify the cost for what I do.

[@RexKrueger]

Well said!

[@guyjones4936]

There is only one area where my Bedrock 605 is better than my Bailey No5. The squared of sides and extra bearing surface makes it a better shooting plane. I made my shooting board with a track that fits the side of my 605 and it flies through end grain with out a lot of effort. I have used the bailey to do the same job but I find it harder to keep it registered flat on the shooting board. Other than this one area, I am in complete agreement with you.

[@guyjones4936]

Just a quick P.S. My Great Grandfather left me a full set of Bedrocks, so I am fairly lucky. If I didn't have that advantage, I would have never purchased one. My Baileys work just fine. I also have a N0 5 that I purchased from Grizzly and it works just fine also. No need for break-the-bank planes, just work on your technique and keep your irons sharp!

[@nolanpalmer5181]

Have you ever used a honing guide on a belt sander to grind plane irons? Asking for a friend.

[@RexKrueger]

Like literally resting on the belt sander? That sounds like a quick trip to the emergency room.

[@LukePighetti]

I have. It works. But I don't recommend it.

[@nolanpalmer5181]

@@RexKrueger Yep. I actually did it yesterday and it worked surprisingly well. That little wheel can spin very fast when it needs to. The plane iron was in bad shape and I didn't have endless time and rolls of sandpaper, so I tried the belt sander.

[@louisvictor3473]

That would be a well adjusted tool rest, set at the belt sander not on it.

[@thorforsell1300]

Can we just stop to appreciate the irony of a master connoisseur of tools being named "Hack" ?

[@robertlunsford1350]

I got one of my 605s for 50 bucks. Of course one of the cheeks has a chunk missing out of it. But it still works like a whole one.

[@mcswordfish]

Buy six Baileys with the mouths all adjusted to difference sizes. I think my Bailey #4 was around £30 and with the use I get out of it, it was worth every penny

[@MrMartinSchou]

I'm not a woodworker, but it seems to me that the bedrock might be better if you can only have one plane, but for the cost you could probably buy a couple of bailey planes. That leaves regular people out of the target audience, but if you're a professional woodworker, why wouldn't you just have two bailey planes - one with a regular mouth and one with a closed one. This has the advantage of not needing to adjust the plane, and if one breaks, you still have a fully functional one. I suspect the reason the bedrock line was discontinued was a lack of demand for it.

[@edwardleroy7648]

Very good. And you do know how to sharpen an iron!

[@charlesl2593]

This was awesome! I had never heard of the bedrock before, but now I have an unnatural desire to own one lol. For $150 I’ll resist the urge thanks to you Rex!

[@rkdazet]

Thank you, Rex! Another great and informative video! "Cork Sniffers"! You crack me up! Hadn't heard that one before! :-) I really appreciate your advice. Purely from a performance point, it doesn't make sense to spend the extra cash -- you'd be getting "corked" I suppose. I can understand those that appreciated finely crafted tools, but that price difference is too high. Your advice is excellent for someone just getting started with hand planes that otherwise would have no idea what they are paying for.Thanks again!

[@drawlele]

"Tool Porn" nice. So this video came in very handy, I currently only have a few unusable old wooden planes, a Stanley 12-404 and a HF Windsor 33. To be honest I dont like the 2 that actually work all that much and I've been looking into antique Stanley's and well I did wonder what the difference between the Bailey and Bedrocks really was, now I know almost nothing where it counts (which in my book is performance). So I think I'll just ignore the Bedrocks and keep looking into Bailey's. So it's anything pre WW2 for best quality right?

[@RexKrueger]

Not at all! The post WWII planes are excellent. Stanley planes stayed great into the early 1960s. I have a video comparing a pre-war and a post-war plane if you want to see the differences.

[@DanielAKA]

So from your experience, if you really wanted an plane that was that much more easily adjustable, wouldn't it be cheaper to pick up a pair of Bailey planes and have them set at different settings? Then you would also have more tools and just reach for the one you wanted rather than worry about adjusting one. And you would have more tools.

[@RexKrueger]

From my experience, closing the mouth is not necessary. One good smoothing plane is all you need....but I own dozens, so I'm not telling anyone not to buy tools.

[@turdferguson8141]

I just have to know, where do you all find these inexpensive vintage planes? Where I live (in the U.S.) a 'decent' example of a vintage plane is priced 1/3 to 1/2 of a Lie-Nielsen or Veritas. If I'm getting into that territory price wise, it makes the decision more difficult on which to purchase. Maybe it's just my area.

[@wolflahti412]

In short, a Bailey and a Bed Rock, properly set up, will perform identically. The difference lies in the Bed Rock being somewhat easier to set up.

[@skeeterd5150]

I think we look at if from today’s perspective. It’s because Bailey has a very wide range of quality of planes. Bedrocks are a clear choice because they were only made during the peak quality of the brand. You almost don’t have to think too hard about the quality and only look at condition

[@malcolmoxley1274]

is it just a case of snobbery? I have stanley,whitworth,record, if they work use them

[@lukes5533]

Shame the bedrock doesn't retain the same depth of cut when you close or open the mouth like a bailey will . Thanks for your review.

[@ivancho5854]

I grew up with a Bailey in the house and to me a Bedrock looks wrong.

[@xoxo2008oxox]

Only thing that irks me here... place you irons on their side, not on the plane blades. :) Otherwise, thank you for the comparison!

[@RexKrueger]

It's a total mystery to my why anyone cares what I do with my tools. I swear it doesn't hurt them.

[@xoxo2008oxox]

@@RexKrueger Ah, I was wrong. www.woodmagazine.com/tool-reviews/hand-planes/should-i-store-my-hand-plane-on-its-side-or-sole

[@carochiqui1]

lol corksniffers lol

[@markdancer3501]

If you want to adjust the mouth, you can buy a second Stanley plane to set up with a closed mouth, and still come out at a fraction of the price of the Bed Rock, and once set up there's no adjustment beyond grabbing the other plane.

[@evensgrey]

Which even eliminates the benefit of having a Bedrock back in the day as a professional who could potentially benefit from spending less time adjusting the mouth, as it seems unlikely it wouldn't be faster still to swap planes.

[@darinnetherland3466]

Excellent point.

[@TheSMEAC]

Excellent point... I have a cheesy buck bros No° I filed the mouth and tuned as my dedicated scrub plane, but the second Bailey is an excellent idea for folks on a budget who really want a dedicated medium mouth or who rely on others to set up their close smoothing mouth configuration and don’t want to touch/fix/break/ruin that “prefect zen like setup they’ve achieved on their 150+ year old work of art. They’d do well to never ever touch that frog again 🤪🤪🤪

[@windhelmguard5295]

i think the real reason why these didn't catch on is what happens when you start woodworking. so imagine you start woodworking, possibly a as an apprentice training under a master who's likely keeping a cut from any revenue you generate. you won't be having a lot of money, so when you get around to buying your first plane, you'll get the bailey and then, by the time you're good enough to make money on your own, you're completely satisfied using the bailey to which you might have also become emotionally attached by this point. finally, when you're a master, taking an apprentice of your own, guess which plane he'll see you using and guess which plane you'll be recommending and guess which plane your apprentice is going to pick up when he gets around to it?

[@ARMYStrongHOOAH17]

"And remember: switching to your sidearm is always faster than reloading"

[@alexjames1146]

I follow Rex's videos. I rarely comment. This is a very good comparison review. If one wants a fine mouth. Buy a second one. No! A third one. $90 to $100 gets you a scrub plane, a general service plane and a super fine, extra sharp, nasty grain specialist smoother. Thanks Mr Krueger.

[@luthiermatt]

I have 3 no. 4's at the ready and have given away another 2. I agree, for the price of a bailey this works out pretty well.

[@bobt2522]

This is another informative video. Thanks for adding the term "cork-sniffer" to my vocabulary. I will get good use from it.

[@RexKrueger]

I didn't invent it, but I'm glad you like it!

[@niterider0629]

Calling someone a cork sniffer is like calling a knife a people opener

[@tomdickharryjane]

Reminds me of the cork soaker skit from SNL with Janet Jackson.

[@hsk108]

Thanks, I can stop thinking that I am somehow missing something by replacing my $25 planes with $180 ones. Be happy with what you have!

[@RexKrueger]

That's advice for all of life!

[@scottswineford6714]

Very enjoyable and informative. Thanks young man. I am going to stick with my transitional, two grizzlys and the ones in your plans set. Between your plans, Paul's videos and James videos I pretty much have all I will ever need.

[@justinsane332]

If it works, and you ENJOY USING IT, nothing else matters. I love my veritas 4 smoother, but I also love my vintage Stanley sweetheart 5 1/4, plus I restored it back myself, which adds to the joy of using it. In fact, I love both my old vintage as well as my premium planes. The only plane I hate using is my wood river 5, it's heavy, feels cheap, and unless I need a lot of control on depth of cut, I now use my wooden 5 from Auburn over my wood river. I really don't like that plane, and it's a bedrock...

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

It's worth pointing out that I'm more comfortable bringing out the "cheaper" handtools for work, because in the case some idiot drops it and causes serious damage, I CAN replace an "ordinary Bailey" relatively easily... ...NOT so much the premium, cork-sniffer Plane. ;o)

[@jean-paulbaudet2951]

$180 is crazy high for a bedrock #4 I think $80-$100 is a more appropriate target.

[@ErikBongers]

Ah, I love the smell of a good hype debunking in the morning!

[@BrightonandHoveActually]

Leaving aside the obvious comparison to Fred Flintstone, I think the introduction of the Bedrock plane really had more to do with the fact that Bailey's patent was approaching expiry and once that happened anybody else could copy the design and Stanley was about to lose its USP.

[@louisvictor3473]

People need to chill with their tool "perfection" insanity. Ignoring glaring shit shaped like a tool, there is just so much "better" you can make a hand tool before you make it a power tool. As long as it is a decently designed and built tool, the limitations of the meat sack using it will kick in way sooner than the tool's, rendering perfectionist improvements almost (when not entirely) moot. Weeab shit I know, but look at Japanese style planes. Extremely simple with just for parts (block of wood for a body, chip breaerk, pin, and blade). The adjustment "knob" is a little hammer and your eyes... Still easily glide over the wood and can cut full board width continuous shavings with no tear out that are so thin you measure them in microns (~ 0.039 thousandths of an inch). Speaking of which, I know you're more of a western style kinda guy, but I'd still suggest checking their stuff for your woodwork for humans series. The planes are obviously an easy pick since you can make a decent one for dirty cheap in materials (besides the blade, and even that, you can find things for the rest from the trash). Some simple yosegi style blocks can let you decorate any projects for nothing more than scrap wood (even the tiny bits) and elbow grease now and then. Pure friction/pressure joinery free from glue and fasters also seem to match WWFH's mindset too (can't get much cheaper than just shaping wood pieces strategically and legoing them together). And so on, I think you'd find lots of ideas to adapt to your own style.

Bedrocks are amazing in my opinion but the price definitely doesn’t reflect linearly. They obviously have a collector element to them. The reality is they preform as well as top of the line modern planes and the more rare bedrocks still cost more while demanding some refurbishing. I would never recommend someone to buy them if you are just looking for performance in relation to cost. Just like owning a sports car in the city, you can tell the difference buts it’s 90% looks and trivial differences, 10% functionality and 600% price increases. You don’t own a sports car with out taking it to the track and justify it as helping you get to work faster. It’s for people that enjoy that car it’s self, not just it’s practicality. An other interesting thing, the bedrocks where much better when they first came out, as baileys of that time had the smaller thumb knobs which turned the “wrong” way and the lower handles. As stanley integrated this into their Baileys, the difference between the two became slimmer. If you work with planes from the same time era (a bailey and a bedrock) you’ll notice a huge difference. Not saying it matters now, but it indicates to them not being any kind of flop but rather that stanley with the type 11 planes and forwards incorporated a lot of bedrocks innovations which closed the gab between the bedrocks and bailey enough to make the price difference even more imposing. Also, by the 60s the last of the good Stanley planes were being made, I think I’m 65 if I recall, the type 20 was out which is considered to have no value by most woodworkers. They are horribly built and corners were cut everywhere. Considering that is what they were now selling, I not surprising the bedrocks were discontinued. That being said, I definitely agree with you when it comes to performance and practicality; they are way over priced for that!

[@BradsWorkbench]

As a fellow plane nerd I totally agree with your assessment. Lets be honest we dont NEED half the planes we have, but they are fun to hunt down and cool to have 👍

[@bazzatron9482]

Thanks for the incredible dive in there, Rex. I appreciate the work you're putting into the handtool community, and helping to really open the way to a whole new generation of enthusiasts by smashing down barriers to entry, and demystifying things like this. Your videos are high up on my recommended "reading list" for new apprentices!

[@nobuckle40]

"collectors and cork-sniffers!" LMAO I love how down to earth you are.

[@rickdafler2515]

I own and use both Baileys and Bedrocks. For me, this video was a test of your honesty in evaluation. You passed with flying co;ors. but I figured yo would. Also, as Paul Sellers points out, when you adjust the mouth on the Bedrock don't forget to adjust the iron before the first cut to prevent surprises. The frog bed on the body of a Bedrock slopes. Baileys are flat. Thanks, Rex

[@andrewgarratt5191]

I know that an infill plane would probably have the same verdict.... But I still don’t understand how my life will ever be totally complete without one of those gorgeous works of art. 😁

[@RexKrueger]

I don't know! I'm going to have to take the plunge on one of those at some point.

[@jean-paulbaudet2951]

Great video subject! I have a collection of bedrock #3-7 they work beautifully once tuned up. No other plan can compare. Only kidding, they are just sexier and us wood nerds need all the sexiness we can get! It’s also nice to own the original version of a Lie Nielsen at a fraction the cost.

[@pandrico]

Need some Rex insights on corrugated sole vs smooth sole!

[@lawrencebombac7391]

definitely this. Yo Rex! Do It!

[@trumpetguy8371]

I know Paul Sellers would tell you go smooth sole every time. Corrugated sole planes have are more likely to get gummed up on the sole with dust or shavings and are usually a bit more expensive anyway because of their collectobility.

[@andrewgarratt5191]

All they do is reduce friction...so corrugations on anything smaller than the 5.5 is just kinda silly. No.5.5 - No.8 you can actually tell a difference. Furthermore those corrugations are a blessing when it comes to re-flatting a sole.

[@luthiermatt]

Agree. This would be a great topic.

[@Deboniako]

@@trumpetguy8371 I got into woodworking after several fruitless tries at making furniture. So I started my research and saw that I need the very basic tools, between them, a hand plane. So I went to the shop and found only stanley corrugated sole planes ranging from 20 to 25 bucks. A month later at another store, I found only stanley flat sole planes ranging from 25 to 40 bucks. I'm from Chile, so I guess that's because the demand here.

[@chuggns]

If I was a patron I would have KNOWN THIS 2 DAYS AGO

[@billsargent3407]

Gotta say the title made me think that Harbor Freight had bought a "Flintstones" license

[@Tool-Meister]

Excellent advice Rex. I have had both, including a full suite of Lie Nielsen Bedrock-pattern bronze planes. I retreated, sold most of my expensive planes, and invested in new blades and chip-breakers where needed for my Bailey-pattern planes. That all done, my favorites are my two Bailey-pattern 5-1/4 planes, all original. One is set wide and the other is set narrow. Why the 5-1/4? Slightly longer than a #4, but enough narrower to accommodate my failing 71 year strength but excessively large hands. Most #4 totes are very tight for my fat fists. My #4 is an English made Record Bailey-pattern type I purchased new in 1986. It was a terrific plane right out of the box and has more “grip room” than most #4’s. I feel planes are like shoes. Size 10s from Adidias don’t fit like size 10s from Nike. I can’t fit my big grubby mitts into the tote of a Wood River #4 Bedrock-pattern plane, but their smaller #3 fits fine. The #4 tote is too close to the blade/chip-breaker assembly, the #3’s blade assembly and tote sets further apart in spite of being smaller overall. Go figure... Your mileage will definitely vary!

[@testuser3167]

Thank you very much! From another guy with large hands who thought about buying the Wood River #4 plane! During this COVID-19 lockdown, WoodCraft only does curbside pickup, so I can't go into the store and put my hands on the tools prior to purchase...

[@cockamamy7582]

Steven you are the first person I’ve ever seen who likes a No5 1/4 and can give a good reason why!

[@Tool-Meister]

FYI, Bailey #5-1/4 planes were the Grab First planes in my 8th grade woodworking class. I remember we had Blocks, 5-1/4s, & 7s. Might had others but that was 60 years ago so not crystal clear any more. You had to be in 9th grade to use table saws, jointers, etc.. Only power tools available to 8th graders were the lathe and bandsaw. Since I had to take a foreign language in 9th I only got 1 year of shop, all hand tools except for a turning project and a sculpted shelf roughed out on the bandsaw. That’s right, 14 year-old kids operating shapers, table saws, jointers, etc. Who says we’re asking more of students today? Not more today, just different. My grandson knows C++, Python, Arduinos, & Raspberry Pi’s, but I had to teach him about the sharp end of the chisel.

[@raymondhill3446]

Thank you Rex! I love tool's! I love history! Put the two together and Shazam! "Cork sniffers" I love that too!

[@rayzedbywolves60]

Thanks for another informative and honest review. I did wonder what all the noise was about. My #4 came from my dad so it's totally irrelevant what brand or type it is. It's absolutely worth spending the time restoring and tuning a standard Bailey #4. And despite being a total newb, I'm getting shavings I can see through.

[@RexKrueger]

It''s really not that hard and with a Bailey, it's worth the investment.

[@davidbrautigam1701]

Thank you for explaining the main difference and preventing me in the future from looking for a Bedrock plane. I think the term "cork sniffer" is good not only for hand tools, but for many more.. like musicians. They listen to a professional, look for the maker of his instrument, buy the same thing and believe they can automatically play like a pro. Except there is a little detail: Practice, practice, practice.

[@testuser3167]

So true. My late father was a professional photographer, and he often said when asked to justify his prices to those who said they could just go pick up a camera and "do the same thing" -- "You can hand anyone a paint brush, but that doesn't make them a Picasso..." Craftsmanship matters in all areas!

[@jmquez]

It’s like showing a. iPhone 11 vs iPhone 11 Pro... to your kids 50 years from now 🤷‍♂️

[@duncanwilson9533]

It is always good to have a tight mouth on your tool.

[@kamrankambang7953]

3:11 when he doesn't understand what you mean.

[@theeddorian]

The trouble I have with Bedrocks is that the seat of the frog to the body, while well designed, is inclined toward the mouth. The Bailey design has a level bedding. So, with the Bedrock, if you tighten the mouth, you also increase the depth of cut, which means you may have to withdraw the iron a bit. On a Bailey, the frog moves parallel to the sole of the plane and the iron edge stays where it was set. All that aside though, if your chip breaker is positioned properly near the edge of the iron, the need for a narrow mouth is minimized or eliminated. You can usually handle reversing grain and knots with little if any trouble. Picked up that trick on The English Wood Worker, BTW. The selling point that Stanley emphasized for the Bedrocks was that they reduced chatter, which is actually caused by thin, flexing irons, so the chip breaker and cap are much more important than Bailey ever intimates. In use the iron flexes away from the frog, so no matter how nicely machined the frog is, so unless the chip breaker and cap iron do their job, you get chatter. This is the main impetus for modern, thicker irons.

[@RexKrueger]

I totally agree!

[@deanmorrell5041]

Thanks, Rex! This is my favorite video yet of yours. You've done a great job of clearing out the cluttered misinformation about these. Well done! I suppose if I ever want to quickly adjust the mouth of my bailey patterns I'll just buy another and save both the expense of a bedrock, and the need for adjustment at all, since I'll have one on the shelf at the setting I'd like.

[@krisfreyermuth935]

Outstanding review! I'd like you to compare router planes, like the vintage Stanley 71 to the modern Lie Neilsen or Veritas. TIA.

[@DStephan90]

lets say price doesnt matter, would you rather restaurate an old plane from the fleemarket or get a new one?

[@RexKrueger]

If price is no object, then Lie Nielsen or Veritas all day long.

[@magicg8112]

I've had a Bailey for over 50 years (yes I am an old timer) and it is my go to plane for everything. Once you get used to how to make the adjustments, it just becomes part of the workflow. You did a great job and it made me feel good about my old plane. Thanks Rex.

[@oliver299d]

I would have to agree with you, having a set of bailey planes and a set of bedrocks, One part of the history is that the original bedrocks were round sided like the Bailey and stanley did the flat side so that people could tell them apart. Bedrocks are better yes, but at the cost that they are today I would stick to a bailey the 604 that you had in the video now can fetch $400, it's really insane

[@daw162]

I didn't watch the video, but see in some of the comments below about $40 vs. $180 for this or that. The important thing to note is this: * bedrock planes cost (new) about 10% more than bailey planes. * at 10% more, the bedrock planes didn't sell very well Setting a plane with a fine mouth is pointless if the plane has a cap iron. in order to get good tearout control for smoothing, you need to have a mouth somewhere around 5 thousandths. For a shaving of 5 thousandths, the mouth needs to be a hundredth or less. This presents a lot of resistance, and unlike fine planes (like a norris, for example), you're working with a casting that's rounded inside and not made properly to use a tight mouth and the cap iron at the same time. The reason that bedrock planes didn't sell is because the market was educated well enough to know that adjusting the mouth isn't a practical fix for anything. The market now isn't educated, and the rarity of relative market failures fascinates collectors. Information is lost (that is, the average user probably doesn't know that the list price for the two planes was 10% apart) and they see value that must be there based on the current market price.

[@martythemartian99]

My Grandfather was a professional carpenter and joiner and when he died, I inherited some of his tools including a Stanley Bailey Plane. Over 70 years old and still works a treat.

[@BronZeage]

When it comes to value for the money, collecting really skews the field. Who can say you can't put a quality iron in a $15 Buck Bros. plane and get as good a surface as from any other plane? There is a distinct boundary between tool users and tool collectors. It's easy to disparage tool collectors as "cork sniffers", but we need to remember, when a tool collector dies, his wife sells everything in a weekend, with it all half price on Sunday. Collectors may drive up the price when they buy planes one at a time, but make up for it by selling them all at once. The days of finding a good usable plane, saw, chisel, etc in a barn are long gone, so collectors are doing users a real service.

[@willc9978]

But of course you still brought one lol ...

[@RexKrueger]

I'm a secret cork-sniffer!

[@timbeaton5045]

"...from the town of Bedrock...They're a plane right out of history!" Sorry. Couldn't resist!

[@corncobjohnsonreal]

Yeah forget bedrock, just stick to minecraft java edition

[@just-dl]

courtesy of my children, I now understand this..... :-)

[@wwtrkr3189]

Therein lies the crux! I love my set. A mixture from a type 2 no.4 to type 15. There's an S4 in there (which I couldn't sell for the price I wanted so it's now my daily driver and I love the shiny thing) and a Bedrock no.5 I just recently found a matched pair of pristine early, round sided, Bedrocks'. No.4 and no.8 with (presumably) the purchasers' initials stamped on the cheek. They were not a bargain, but they were not overpriced either. They've been together for 120 years and I can imagine the man saving hard for that big purchase. Obviously I can't split them up now! I'm torn. Do I make a nice box for them and sell them as a pair for an extortionate price or do I add them to my own collection? I really don't need 3, no.4's but I get much pleasure from the other two (not that I use the type 2) and I promised myself when I started down this road I wouldn't end up with a vast shelf of hand planes that I never use. But it's the fun of the chase. The satisfaction of the discovery. The privilege of being a custodian of history as well as the enjoyment of using the tools. Do I need them? No! Do I enjoy them? Yes! I guess maybe I should build a new display rack and get back to inhaling my corks. 🤷 The only purpose of which, by the way, is to tell you if the wine is off. It'll tell you nothing about the rest of the bottle. I rarely bother with that step, but i will swirl, examine, put out a nose and savor before i drink, because i was taught what I'm looking for and it makes a difference. Only a small 10% difference, definitely gone and done with once you take the first mouthful. It's maybe the perfect analogy for hand planes. Does a St. Emilion grande crux justify its price tag against a bog standard Bordeaux blend? Maybe. But not if you only buy wine according to alcohol percentage or how attractive the label is. To all intents and purposes, both will get you drunk if you drink enough of it, both will give you the same hangover. But the St Emilion will taste better with my steak.

[@jasonnoble2470]

The first plane I bought was a 5 1/2 bedrock I picked up at a farm auction. The only thing I had to compare it to was my grandfather's #5 which was/is ok. But right out of the gate the bedrock to me has been far superior. With less chatting, that is..none. The bedrock was so easy to setup. Sad to say I have never to this day taken the time to setup my grandfather's #5. The 5 1/2 bedrock is such a pleasure to use. I do take the point the Bailey planes work just fine. my everyday workhorse is a #4 lakeside. Which I am sure Stanley or Millerfalls made. #4s are so hard to come by for me. I prefer to find my hand tools....anyway good video.

[@linkedheartz]

entiendo cuado hablan en ingles,pero no sè escribirlo,de modo que te escribire en mi idioma.te felicito por tan formidable video.Haz despejado todas mis dudas respecto al mìtico bedrock de stanley....ahora que vi tu video,me siento mas feliz al lado de mis hermosos baileys.saludos desde Lima-PERU.

[@1striperon]

Again, credible, fair, scientific, well worth the time to watch. Thanks, Rex.

[@BradsWorkbench]

Id like to see what you think of the old blades vs new ones stanley still sales vs a hock replacement blade

[@rzwerlein]

Great vid! But what’s a corn sniffer 🤷🏼‍♂️🤔🤦🏻‍♂️🫣😇

[@markchaplain1152]

Clear, concise, honest no and bullshit good advice !!! Great as always Rex !! Sure the bedrock is nice and all but the prices people ask for them are a bit ludicrous!!

[@mpart_woodlathe-stuff]

hahaha 'cork sniffers' 😁 Great content today Rex! Stay safe. -Mike

[@motobenbh4722]

I have two Bailey pattern no. 4's. Paid next to nothing. ...... Can you guess what I did with the (2) (different) mouth sizes ..... the word '(different)' is a clue. Cool video as well, cured my bedrock envy.

[@AB-C1]

Fantastic video Rex! Love your channel mate one of my favourite channels on KZbin! Keep up the good work! Got my Grandads old Stanley Plane think it's a No.4, I need to renovate. - It's not terrible but he was a cabinet maker/furniture maker and joiner before the war and after. For sentimental reasons I want to get his old plane in working condition to use myself. I know it's been used by my dad about 20 or 30 years ago for one or two odd jobs, but it's not been used since and was in my house when a flood happened with all my other stuff and sat in cupboard with damp air in house for 18months as insurance refused to pay out! So I'm dreading looking in there to see if it's all rusted up! Anyhow I've been collecting some old school hand tools from people who were retiring or passed away and family getting rid. Got a few nice old tools not show pieces but literally as they were last time they were used, which I like cos it's authentic and you know they're not messed with. A quick clean, oil, sharpen of blades drills, brace, jigs or whatever and hopefully all be good to go! Anyway I've been following your channel and really spurred me on to try and get things sorted so I can start my woodworking hobby soon as house is sorted! I'm also learning a TON! AND probably how to NOT ruin the tools I have got! Lol 🤣😂 Cheers from London 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

[@kylevernon9625]

Just bought a bedrock 605 type 12 - found it with a vendor at my local antique market for $10 w/20% off 😳😳 couldn’t buy it fast enough 😂 BUT - because it’s a type 12 (wartime production) - there’s no brass on it, it has maple tote/knob - smaller 1-1/4” steel wheel, and no nickel plating on the lever cap - it was RUSTED. Not enough to make me not buy it tho - the rust had gotten under the Japanning, so I had to basically strip it all off - and the blade/cap iron were nearly rusted together. I replaced with a Hock blade/cap iron, ended up cold-blueing the cast iron instead of japanning or lacquer, and brass-plated all of the steel hardware. Is it worth the price difference? Probably not - but hands down this thing cuts like nothing I’ve ever used before - it’s SEXY as all hell, and it is just an absolutely pleasure to hold and use and even to look at. There’s really no need to buy one - but if you enjoy restoring and collecting and using vintage tools - get one. You won’t be disappointed - I couldn’t be happier with mine ☺️

[@BronzeWoodJewelry]

What was the price difference between the Bailey style and Bedrock back in the day? If ease of adjustment was the big thing you could buy 4 Baileys and adjust them for coarse, medium, fine, very fine settings and still have 50 dollars left for a nice steak dinner! :D

[@PPHalpert]

But but.. the aesthetics of a little Bedrock plane with a little Sweetheart iron!? It’s so pretty!! But also, this was an awesome video, you da man!

[@tomdickharryjane]

Never could figure out why the Bedrock was so much more. Now I know, the cork sniffers driving up the prices. Truth be told, though, I think my Lie Nielsen and Veritas planes ARE worth six times the price of my Bailey. Thicker blade steel, less chattering, and Veritas has the PMV-11 steel option.

[@frenstcht]

Great video, as always. But to people who want to start with hand tools on a budget, _and if you don't live near big flea markets,_ you may have to bite the bullet. I can't go to a flea market and buy a good plane for $30 without spending at least $50 in gas. And if it takes two trips to find what I need, there's a minimum of $100 down the crapper. Ebay? Nope. Closer to $100 with shipping. But then you've got a plane on the cheap, right? Nope. You have no idea what kind of person owned it, so you need to flatten it. But that's just some sandpaper and elbow grease, right? Nope. If you've got something even a little bit wrong, you're spending hours not fixing anything at best, at worse you're exacerbating the problem without even knowing it. And if you need it to be your shooting plane, then you've got to figure out how to get the side(s) 90-degrees to the shoe. But you've got that done, and you're good to go, right? Nope. You have to get the frog flat with a file and tune up the cap iron -- two things that, if you're not experienced, you stand a good chance of screwing up. Or the cap iron may be beyond repair. And then the iron may be beyond repair, too. You can buy cheap ones with the problems that brings, or spend another $70 on a Hock iron/breaker combo. You could have some good luck. You might not. If I could start over again, I'd get a Lie-Nielsen #5 and call it good. I'm pretty sure the thing is made of magic. Or maybe a #5-1/2, because you can save up for #4-1/2 or #6 with a high-angle frog, and swap them out when you get into nasty timber. If you find you hate hand tools, Lie-Nielsen tools sell for about retail on ebay, especially if you keep the packaging. If that's too expensive, get a wooden jack plane from Infinity tools for $90 plus shipping. On the other hand, if you live near flea markets and can bring a straight edge, a square, and feeler gauges to inspect the product before buying, go for it.

[@dlewis2446]

Cork sniffer here. For a novice working pine for an hour on a Sunday afternoon any old plane will work. Now if you are even somewhat serious you'd know bedrocks aren't just about the frog but it's the some of its parts. Having a movable frog without the need to dissamble is HUGE I don't understand why you'd play that down(good luck setting a Bailey to a 2thickness shaving without dinging the blades edge when you close it too much like you did in this vid). As well as the willpower destroying time it takes to set a bailey over a bedrock, what's that saying? Time is money. As for the sum of its parts bedrocks are just generally better made. Take for example the depth adjuster knob, every bailey I've ever used wether it be Stanley, record or whatever has a frustrating amount of 'slack' in the turn sometimes as much as 3/4full revolutions. Compare that to my most used bedrock and its less than a quarter turn between the slack. It is quick, easy and a joy to adjust with one finger instead of stopping and 'spinning the wheel' The threads are finer aswel making subtle adjustments much more intuitive. I could go on and on about the benefits of a better quality plane and Stanley bedrocks were the apex of these production planes. That why lie nelson basically flat out copied the design as they are better in every way,if they're was a better design you can bet a dollar L. N would have copied that design instead...

[@TheSMEAC]

I love my type 6 No° 4 and would only have a ‘bedrock’ if ever L-N gets production going again and I can buy one of theirs. But I’ll not buy an old bedrock unless a old 5-1/2 happens to fall into my lap. I still have never owned a No° 5 of any sort, because my LAJ’s have always filled that need. At the end of the day too, I’ve come across more than one bedrock toteing fella who’d love to have my pristine type 6 if given the chance. But you’ll have to wait around until I croak to get that one 👍