Are Doctors Misleading Patients About Statin Risks and Benefits?

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

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[@MarleneBarr]

I had a blocked artery in my leg and the vascular surgeon to whom I was referred said evidence was accumulating that lifestyle changes could reverse atherosclerosis. I refused the statin my GP insisted would save my life and changed my diet to whole food plant based, with an extra focus on high nitric acid greens. After 2 years I have a good strong pulse at my knee where there was no pulse at the original diagnosis. I can now walk without the calf pain I used to get. The problem for doctors is that most people just can't or wont change their diet and doctors don't have procedures to enable them.

[@jamescunningham6017]

As someone with crohns this chanel has helped me alot.

[@jamessullenriot]

High BP and cholesterol runs in my family. Actually, its probably more that bad diet runs in my family and high BP is a side effect of that. So high bp, meds, etc vs me who eats different from them and my BP is usually 110/70ish and cholesterol is low as well.

[@jamessullenriot]

@@RiDankulous there are also other things like stress , low potassium, not hydrating enough and other things that could increase BP

[@jackanddan]

I literally go over this statistic with my patients in clients every single day and have for many many years thanks for making a great video on at Dr. Gregor as always…. I don’t tell them this information in any way shape or form to discourage them from taking a drug but in order for them to understand that they themselves can make a much larger impact on their destiny then taking a pill ever could by simply changing a few things that they eat🌱💪🌎💚

[@jackanddan]

@Engelbert Humperdinck I have been an RN for 30 years but funny joke …. My son and I also have a KZbin channel where we go over wellness and also lots of other fun stuff….have a great day

[@vincecastillo6554]

You putting people at risk with bad advice for more followers. Beware of lawsuits.

[@steevesdd]

Governments in single payer healthcare need to invest in nutritional and lifestyle research to provide science based protocols that can be an alternative to drug protocols.

[@duckzor]

You would need bigger and more powerful lobbyists than already exist to push this kind of action in government. Big pharma and meat and dairy industries would crush this type of action. Some world we live in, huh? Profit will always come first over well-being.

[@richardlinares6314]

Maybe when broccoli and blueberry companies start bribing... I mean donating to politicians.

[@MrMasterDebate]

USA: LOL.

[@00bikeboy]

Amen to that! Health Canada, are you listening?

[@KJSvitko]

Doctors do not spend enough time talking to patients about the benefits of proper nutrition for risk reduction.

[@Joseph1NJ]

Because they can't afford it. The insurance cartels have them working for peanuts. Have you ever seen what a GP is paid today by even the most expensive insurance plans? It's embarrassing! But don't worry, an MD as the first line of medical care is going away fast. They've concocted a way to do away with them and replace them with entry level, minimally trained, and inexpensive healthcare assistants.

[@edrabogucki401]

Mine encouraged eating less meats for YEARS before I heard that I could add 3 servings of beans a day. I WAS IN! I’m sure she’d mentioned it as part of naming vegetables to include, I just didn’t want to hear it at the time. Tomorrow we’ll talk about reducing my medications with the sim of eliminating them. We’ve already canceled 2 or 3, I’ll need help with those remaining.

[@claudiomartins77]

As always, Brilliant!

[@danschoenharl3856]

When we see what junk our supermarkets carry, meant to be staples (sugary cereal/breakfast bars, candy, baked goods, meats galore, snacks, soda, and processed foods of all kinds), is it any wonder that the supermarket pharmacy also sells statins? Switching to a more nutritious, plant-based diet, can be a challenge in the beginning, as any change is, but it just makes you feel better, having many benefits far beyond lowering cholesterol.

[@pattiday431]

My doctor took me off statins years ago. He said the benefit to risk ratio wasn't worth it. I trust him. Americans are given far too many pills. Healthy eating and excercise is the answer to many of the reasons we take pills

[@danschoenharl3856]

@@pattiday431 I couldn’t agree more. It is a lack of knowledge that has people running to a solution that was never necessary. Eating better food is not only healthier, but tastier. And the occasional (unhealthy) treat wouldn’t be a problem.

[@smallfootprint2961]

Thank you for all the good work you do.

[@elisenieuwe4649]

Oh yes. My mother has diabetes 2 for decades (Lada, not because she was overweight) and she's on statins. And she told me yesterday that her 'bad cholesterol' was on a level that would be deemed healthy three years ago, but now they lowered the number for people with diabetes and she got prescribed statins. Even though her total cholesterol is good, her blood pressure is low and all other markers are good as well. Just the diabetes 2. She told me she now has more problems in her hands with her joints so she wants off the meds.

[@terrencetrussell7625]

The relative vs absolute risk reduction definitions are a critical part of truly “informed consent” to ANY recommended medical treatment or procedure. I am interested in how the number being treated with statins considers ‘serious’ versus ‘moderate’ risk. Is the improvement in health higher with serious risk factor individuals? And, what is the actual absolute risk reduction for another disease vaccine- the “thing that’s going around” world-wide?

[@grandmasharkmd]

I like that you talked about a shared mental model of the patient and the physician deciding which drug to take or whether to take it or not. But you didn’t mention anything about cholesterol levels and monitoring them with diet and exercise changes. If this works then no Statin is indicated. I’ve been taking atorvastatin for almost 20 years and I have tried periodically to get off of them but my cholesterol levels go way up. My diet is extremely healthy and my BMI is 20. I exercise regularly. I’d like to see more about what are the risks of statins in this video and more information on how patients should consider other ways of lowering their cholesterol and whether it even matters. Is high cholesterol really dangerous or not?

[@utrnagel9441]

There is a Book from Caldwell B. Esselstyn he talks about statine ist called eat against heartinfarct or something like that, I got the German Book and there it does explain all If you like to check it

[@trish5111]

Have a look for Dr Greger's book called How Not to Die or do some searches about plant based diets. There is no cholesterol in plants so if you eat mostly plants you will lower your cholesterol. If you eat only plants you will stop having problems with cholesterol. Only people with a rare condition that causes them to make too much cholesterol would still have higher levels. Huge majority of people get off statins and lower cholesterol and tryglycerides and blood sugar within a couple of months on a healthy plant based diet.

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

Hi there, I'm Dush a volunteer here at NutritionFacts.org. Have you tried out Dr. Greger's Daily Dozen? (nutritionfacts.org/daily-dozen/). Those are a dozen foods you should get into your diet daily and you should hit a healthy cholesterol number. If you still can't check for foods that can actively reduce your cholestrol numbers, in addition to the daily dozen. Here's a list: nutritionfacts.org/questions/what-can-i-do-to-lower-my-cholesterol-it-seems-ive-tried-everything/

[@tonynes3577]

Most prescriptions are written to patients without information about what kind of risks and benefits are involved in the drug. Very Sad. Myself being a nurse see a lot of people come into the hospital, have procedures and tests which may or may not be necessary then go home with a handful of prescriptions. Getting to the topic at hand, statim drugs may or may not be needed but thankfully I can decide for myself and I am aware of how to control my cholesterol, by going on a low saturated fat, low animal based diet, a mostly plant based diet. And thankfully I don't have inherited high cholesterol. Thanks doc!

[@mrpaupie]

I'd love to see your thoughts on the statin/prostate cancer connection. Not really nutrition but it would be a good follow-up to this talk.

[@vincecastillo6554]

Don’t listen to this guy.

[@tlsnana9539]

Hmm. I had MI in 2017. Was told I would die if I didn’t take my Lipitor. I’ve rarely missed dose for 4+ years. After most recent 1+ year of excruciating muscle pain, being told it’s because I’m old and doing my own research, I stopped taking Lipitor, w/ doctor approval for a couple weeks. I’m waiting for other suggestions, really trying to find diet improvements and taking CoQ10, I’m able to be walk down steps and comb my hair w/o tears. I was religious about my med and my cholesterol seems to still be high. Maybe I’ll just find another doctor? Thank you for generously helping us.

[@gallectee6032]

Check his How Not To Die video series. He has one for heart disease.

[@DavidJohnson-nq2op]

For patients with statin induced myalgia but should be on statins I prescribe pravastatin. It is a less potent statin with less chance of causing the muscle aches. Ask you doctor about that. Plant based diet would also help. Best of luck.

[@trevorregay9283]

4 Brazil nuts once a month according to studies is supposed to help lower cholesterol.....Greger has a vid on this....

[@trevorregay9283]

Eating blueberries everyday or drinking blueberry tea or juice is supposed to lower cholesterol according to studies....Greger has a vid on this as well...

[@pattiday431]

Twice I felt like I was having a heart attack. It was like my heart was a rubber ball being squeezed by a hand, on a scale I would have rated it 10 out of 10. I could breathe normally, and there was no pain except my jaw and middle of my chest chest. My doctor took me off statins and it hasn't happened again in 5 years.

[@ooo789456123]

When your LDL is at 68, due to a whole foods plant-based lifestyle and you think to yourself, why bother if statins are useful or not and what side effects they have.

[@donwinston]

If you take a statin when your LDL is 68 you could lower it even further to the mid forties by taking a statin. They frigging work! An LDL of 45 will significantly reduce your risk of heart disease compared to an LDL of 68.

[@ooo789456123]

@@donwinston and I thought a LDL value below 70 is heart attacks prove, according to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn 🤔

[@Firebuck]

@@donwinston I feel certain you are talking about relative risk. What's the absolute risk in both cases?

[@Joseph1NJ]

@@donwinston Source? Statins work to reduce cholesterol. The question is do they work to reduce heart disease in those with already low LDL?

[@rons5319]

@@donwinston Plenty of people still have heart attacks and die on statins. Changing the diet to Esselstyn's plant diet reduces the risk of dying of heart disease to near zero.

[@gabriel65304]

Hi Marlene , please tell us what focus on nitric oxide you applied? Thanks 🙏

[@rboz4637]

Funny - last week I had a conversation with my brother in law when he was complaining about a hip pain. He described all the problems he has had with taking statins for decades to get his cholesterol into the normal range. I said "well, you could just stop eating cholesterol." He got a blank look on his face and stopped talking. Surely someone had suggested that option to him over the decades. Oh, and major cardiovascular disease.

[@Paul-yk7ds]

Hey Dr. Greger / team, I think your recent thumbnails are likely hurting your reach on KZbin. The stock photos are too generic and don't offer any intrigue to click. Just mentioning this because I love your content and want it to reach as many people as possible.

[@jefb2361]

One has to weigh up statin negative side effects toó. So, 1% improvement yes, measured against the horrors of reported statin- taking over time.

[@stevet6676]

Perhaps the problem we face with medical care is multifaceted. Patients often put too much responsibility on the doctor. No one, even doctors with the best of intentions, knows everything. The economics muddies the waters. A doctor once told be (privately, off the record) that if he didn't prescribe a statin, the insurance company would not pay for some additional tests he wanted. Then, of course, is the pharm salesreps "incentives" Lastly, we live (in the U.S. especially) in a society that has unrestricted capitalism: drugs are routinely advertised directly to people, mostly with overweight people and smiling faces. The supplement business is basically unregulated at all. The "infomercial" was a stoke of malevolent genius. The bright side is, we are the captains of our own ships and we MUST take responsibility for ourselves. Education, is critically important.

[@vrilm6746]

Thank you.

[@danoneill2846]

Did I miss the RISK ??? Risk of statin ??

[@YossiWeinstein]

I don't know what to tell my dad, who's on statins, after this.

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

Hi Yossi, I'm Dush a volunteer here at NutritionFacts.org. Did you check our last Statin video? In there Dr. Greger links to a few risk calculators where you can take an objective score if a statin is worth it for you - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aojOdX2aqZiBisk. Perhaps you can plug in your dads numbers (BP/LDL/HDL etc.) into one of the calculators linked.

[@gallectee6032]

As mentioned in 6:21, in the US. they still prevent up to 200k deaths,. 346k heart attacks and 136k non fatal strokes. They definitely work, but you cannot keep the same lifestyle while taking a statin, and expect to have no heart attack risk, is one point to take home. Tell your dad to follow Dr. Esselstyn's advice. His program has been proven to work extremely effectively. He has videos and books on it, watch them because for example broccoli is an important aspect for NO production for the program.

[@spicybbqtasty3960]

As time goes by absolute risk goes up, sorry doc you're a rebel without a cause on this one

[@spiderjump]

Eat oatmeal for breakfast.beans And unpolished rice as staples . Eat 3 fruits a day and 2 servings of veggies daily . Eat less meat .

[@DBSaiyanTim777]

No meat or any kind of animal products.

[@Mark_Chandler]

@@DBSaiyanTim777 some people eat meat three times a day. If you enjoy meat, restrict it to a couple times a week. Eat quality meat. Yes, the six dollar a pound meat.

[@Julottt]

More like eat at least 10 servings of fruits and vegetables daily and the more the better.

[@DBSaiyanTim777]

@@Mark_Chandler Yeah but it's not nessecary to survive.

[@masher1042]

Absolute risk reduction of 1% over 2 years is small. But over the patient's lifetime the absolute risk reduction may be significant. If a patient is at high risk and not willing to go on whole food plant based then he better be on statin.

[@kbkesq]

4:00 this is the key point. However you emphasize low LDL and total cholesterol below 150 as a longevity marker. If one gets cholesterol that low with crestor is one still heart attack proof?

[@MarmaladeINFP]

This ignores the known and potential harms, including possible reduction in lifespan, from overprescribing medications that most people don't need. Some of the side effects are severe and, as evidence shows, highly unreported by the pharmaceutical companies. So, statins actually might be harming more people than they're helping. This is what mainstream health experts don't want to talk about. There is too much money at stake.

[@gedamco]

How can people be expected to make the right decision about whether or not to take a drug when given the right information when the same people have made the wrong dietary choices throughout their lives that have put them in the position of having to take life-saving drugs in the first place?

[@radic888]

So do I keep taking my Crestor or not?

[@ronandanne1]

Ask a doctor that has examined you and seen your blood test results. Don't ask youtube.

[@masher1042]

Yes. If you have high LDL cholesterol or at high risk. Such video by Dr Greger can be dangerous. Please go ask your doctor.

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

Hi, Adam Adam! We would not suggest that you stop taking prescribed medication without talking with your doctor. If you have doubts about taking statins, please discuss them with a physician. I hope that helps! -Christine Kestner, MS, CNS, LDN, NutritionFacts.org Health Support Volunteer

[@mattv.6986]

I love his videos but I'm not sure about this one. The message is confusing.

[@Joseph1NJ]

Other than the 1% risk thing, there was no useful message. So far, this has been a very disappointing series. I'm glad I didn't purchase it!

[@Ryansarcade9]

Thx

[@manGRts]

If you are inside the 3% who will experience a heart attack, cutting that to 2% could save your life. It's absolutely a big difference and presenting it as a not-so-much is a disservice to the lives at stake.

[@villiageheart]

what do you know about a drug called Losartan Potassium?

[@karenishness1]

I got off statins and stayed off with a raw vegan diet. Genesis 1:29.

[@ddpwe5269]

If only they could make money on people being healthy.

[@carl13579]

I feel like I didn't get the point of this video. Reducing from 3% to 2% is large when you take it over a 20-year time span (rather than 2 years). A "small" risk reduction (small because of the short time window) would also apply to lifestyle modification.

[@BeeRich33]

Two things. First, yes. My experience with statins, however anecdotal, were terrible, and such experience explained by biochemistry. Salt and cholesterol are two items I think are hugely misunderstood. Second, thank you for putting DOCTORS on the responsibility bill, and not pharma. The front and push of such items is indeed the GP front.

[@Mark_Chandler]

one in a hundred are spared a vascular event, what percentage develop diabetes by taking the drug. is it a zero sum benefit?

[@Joseph1NJ]

Why is pancreatitis listed as a risk factor? How exactly do statins mess with your pancreas? These last two video were very disappointing.

[@edrabogucki401]

Many medication inserts with prescriptions include the same side effects and risks, included to protect the prescribing doctor and the drug manufacturers. Some doctors are more knowledgeable about medications than others and can make more informed decisions. Mine is more likely to prescribe an older drug with a longer track record of benefits.

[@paulehrlich2362]

This last statement is mislead, he said “informing patient of about statins would the cause the very outcomes the drugs were designed to treat”. He should have said “informing patient of about statins might make them quit, because the benefits or overstated compared to diet modification discussions, which would cause the outcomes that the drugs were designed to treat”. The way he phrase it is dicey and misleading. I agree shared decision making and diet diet diet, but I’m yet to be moved away from statins due to any risks (not to say they aren’t entirely without them). I also understand they’re hardly the life saver we expected them to be.

[@soniajacobs3038]

??? I thought you were clearing things up but in the end, you left me even more confused. Like in How Not to Die, “Should I eat the darn potato?” I’ll have to watch this video again.

[@katiehemstreet8939]

I think the conclusion is that statins do save lives, but lifestyle changes would save more. (But yeah, I'm with you, it was a bit of a rollercoaster on what to think.)

[@eelkeaptroot1393]

Don't cover the potatoes if butter or mayonnaise and you'll be fine

[@Joseph1NJ]

These last two on statins were very disappointing. First, they presented nothing that wasn't already common knowledge. Second, there was nothing new. Third, it all was nothing more than a precursor to eating well, and buy my books.

[@KJSvitko]

The GOP has kept bills from passing that would allow Medicare and Medicaid from negotiating drug prices. It is crazy that the exact same drugs are cheaper in Canada and other countries because they negotiate for lower prices.

[@odontomatix]

Yeah, but what's the alternative to taking a statin drug every day that not only reduces LDL-CHOLESTEROL but also blocks other important metabolic pathways? Heaven forbid that most patients could take control of their own health with diet and moderate exercise. Moreover, LDL-CHOLESTEROL isn't the whole story. What doctors don't explain is that only the small dense LDL particles invade the arteries, not the larger LDL particles, and the small dense ones are caused by a diet that elevates triglycerides. Atherosclerosis is not a "statin deficiency disease."

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

Hi, odontomatix! You might be interested in this: nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-does-cholesterol-size-matter/ I hope that helps! -Christine Kestner, MS, CNS, LDN, NutritionFacts.org Health Support Volunteer

[@jimayers4397]

1% risk for ten years is 10%, perhaps if it were put in terms of how long the patient expected or wanted to live then multiplied by time frame there could be better compliance. I'm ultimately for diet rather than statin btw.

[@jeffmorgan5152]

A 1% risk after ten years is still a 1% risk.

[@jimayers4397]

@@jeffmorgan5152 My bad

[@artgenerator7252]

Would a vegan-Keto be protective against CVD? Especially if coconut and palm oil are excluded? I’ve been doing the diet, and it’s been great. I eat more leafy greens as filler, but a big drawback is that I think my farts awoke something from ancient times because they smell like burning brimstone. I’ve smoked my wife out like a fox from a deep sleep several times. Also, i poop so hard that the sewer rats are still trying to recover from my last BM. I know this is from the fat and fiber increase, but didn’t know if it would be protective against CVD.

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

Hi, Art Generator! You might be interested in this: nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-atkins-diet/ I hope that helps! -Christine Kestner, MS, CNS, LDN, NutritionFacts.org Health Support Volunteer

[@veganevolution]

4:43 *treat 100 to prevent a single heart attack* because people come in whole amounts, and this is a statistic, it would be more likely that a heart attack is prevented after 50 people have been treated. However that is just barely a truthful statement.

[@6681096]

That's incorrect you should probably listen to the video again. If you don't have diagnosed heart disease the use of statins is debatable, as it doesn't reduce all cause mortality. Further, statins also cause harm: 1 in 50 were harmed (develop diabetes) 1 in 10 were harmed (muscle damage)

[@shadohman]

I've tried statins three times and experienced excruciating back pain, so I don't consider that 1% reduction in risk.

[@francesshirley]

Confusing video…….so should I stop taking statins?

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

Hi, frances shirley! We would not suggest that you stop taking any prescribed medication without talking with your doctor. If you have doubts about taking statins, please discuss them with your physician. It may be possible for you to lower cholesterol with dietary changes. You can find everything on our website about cholesterol here: nutritionfacts.org/topics/cholesterol/ I hope that helps! -Christine Kestner, MS, CNS, LDN, NutritionFacts.org Health Support Volunteer

[@miriamtorre7927]

What about the claims of dr Gabrielle Lyon ? She bealive the opposite of what Greger say.

[@NutritionFactsOrg]

Hi, Miriam Torre! We don't usually comment on the opinions of other doctors. Look at the evidence. I hope that helps! -Christine Kestner, MS, CNS, LDN, NutritionFacts.org Health Support Volunteer

[@78cheerio]

Looks like somebody’s walking a tightrope so they don’t get sued. The print is so fine here I do t know which side f the fence he’s on. I guess the side of, figure it out for yourself.

[@truefuschniken]

💖💖💖

[@ronandanne1]

Greger is not a board-certified cardiologist--he's a GP. Cardiologists, by and large, are pretty smart and have lots of training and good critical thinking skills. Yes, eat responsibly. But also talk to a qualified doctor who has actually examined you and seen your blood test results. Don't get your medical advice from youtube.

[@terrencetrussell7625]

Good point about you tube, but Dr Greger’s advice is based on solid data and research. You comment “eat responsibly”, but does that mean to you, or to doctors, what it means to Dr Greger? It is apparent that people have a ‘comfort level’ they are willing to maintain at great cost, including drugs. It is being lenient to state that doctors recognize this and therefore give people the ‘band-aid’ they want. I speak from some experience as a patient. When you go to a specialist, he plans to treat you within his specialty. That may not be what is actually best for you. So research yourself if you want to know your actual options!

[@KarmasPerjury]

i think what matters is the drug lowers your risk of heart disease more then a it causes other diseases for specific population why are we saying statins are bad and isnt your risk of dying low so if you lower your risk of death youve only lowered it by .1% over a long period of time

[@Joseph1NJ]

I so glad I didn't purchase this series, as I'm disappointed in that I have more questions than answers and did not find these last two informative at all. Except to say that it seems statins provide a 1% improvement in ten year risk. But whom exactly?

[@Joseph1NJ]

@@RustyMadd go away