Are FLOODGATES Toxic For Yu-Gi-Oh!?!?

[@TGSAnime]

Just To Clarify Overwhelmingly Powerful Floodgates aren't the only problem. An Equal Case Can Be Made For Generic Omni-Negate End Boards That Can Interrupt You 8 Times. Or The Disparity Between An Older Deck And The Hyper Consistency Of New Decks That Release. Perhaps We Can Talk About Those In The Future?

[@TheKpa11]

Well I guess you should follow up this video with Lector/Jinzo vs Kaiba Or Crow vs Lazar

[@RayMon504]

Thank you for this comment. A LOT of combo players in general refuse to admit that spamming the field full of generic omni negates is 100% just as unfair as floodgates

[@thunderbirds9001]

@@RayMon504 that's why most of the good generic omni negates have been getting hit. Baronne, gone, Apollusa, Gone, Savage Dragon, GONE

[@lusasedoux479]

Well isn't this line of logic why Appolusia is getting banned??

[@Tobias-4L]

@@RayMon504ich stimme dir zu 👍🏽

[@tosfan6489]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I just wish it didn't feel like you *have* to play either meta or anti-meta. I just wanna build a deck around a cool archetype or monster :( EDIT: To clarify, since some peeps have mentioned this. I know you *can* run a less optimal deck, it's just personal experience. In casuals I still often run into omni-negates and floodgates a lot, which makes running my more niche decks less viable.

[@PrehistoricMenagerie]

I think this is a very popular opinion!

[@christophermiller1595]

You're spot on

[@mikehawk8984]

That's just how the cookie crumbles when you're playing a competitive game unfortunately, it isn't just like that with YuGiOh (although with YuGiOh it's amplified because of the speed of the game and power of top strategies). You can play rogue decks but you're trading the power for the unfamiliarity your opponent will have with your deck and you win that way. It isn't going to be a win rate like you're playing snake eyes, but if you're playing something wacky than people aren't going to know what it's end goal is and you can cheese wins off of them that way lol

[@finalbossbowser]

My guy, I will shake your hand and play you with my Blue-Eyes White Dragonmaid deck any day.

[@Dz73zxxx]

In master duel you actually could, in gold rank or lower 😅 also, within the middle and end of season, so that the sweaty meta users already in Plat or higher rank

[@DragoSonicMile]

Solitaire players: "You're what's wrong with this game!" Anti-meta floodgate players: "No, you're what's wrong with this game!" Decks with neither of those card types: "Why can't we just have fun anymore?" People on the outside with no cards: "How is this game still here?"

[@roncerjani9063]

Lol, there's 2 kind of people out there; yugioh players and people who didn't know this game was even alive at this point

[@daviouscram2101]

It really did boil down to the Immovable flood gates. vs the unstoppable summons meta.

[@ZeRasseru]

I'm the 3rd type of player. And man... I'm so happy I limited myself to DL. Too many people take that game seriously

[@somedudewatchintv5297]

I'm probably closest to 3. I want a nice back and forth. I don't want to almost fall asleep waiting for Mt turn only to find I can't play. I just wonder what they even get out of it when that happens.

[@ukotoa1639]

I love Yu-Gi-Oh with all my heart, but man do I fucking hate playing Yu-Gi-Oh

[@animesempai0]

Sadly I feel the same way, grew up with the game in grade school and middle school. Wish to continue it but it's gotten to a point where it's monotonous

[@RedLightz_TV]

Mood

[@CloudyNight2156]

I want Chaotic back.😢

[@jaretco6423]

Same here. I will always cherrish the franchise with all my heart and continue so. But I can't support how broken the card games has been getting. Wish they would fix that. But I highly doubt it.

[@Carlos.Rivera]

Change format

[@HeyRyanLetsPlay]

I placed YGO back when floodgates existed but weren't overly common. What got me out of the game was the absurdity of turns where you can play through 1/3 of your deck in a single turn and shut off your opponent. That is less fun than having to deal with 1 or 2 floodgates

[@PricefieldPunk]

I'd much prefer playing against Floodgates if they also have to grind out the game. The floodgates i can't stand are when they set up a huge board and then floodgate me.

[@N12015]

Then the problem isn't the floodgate, it is the huge board you can set in a singular turn.

[@PlayWithThatBlackGuy]

​@@N12015No the problem is that they can set up their board then floodgate you taking away your options to out their board

[@Jaybei420]

Plus, what makes it even worse if I'm somehow able to out their entire board it is no point they can easily recycle all the necessary cards just to set up the same board again.

[@HawaiianForgeStudios]

Flood gate that punishes both players should be the only thing allowed for sure.

[@utkusoygan239]

​@@HawaiianForgeStudios Problem with that is, they can 1. design their deck around that particular floodgate and you still lose 2. they can play most of them after their turn. I understand floodgate players, nobody has to play against a 10 minute first turn combo but the concept of powerful and easy to play floodgates is absurd in any other card game.

[@thespacecowboyexe]

So I will say that I don't think floodgates are "inherently" bad for the game; but I do think it's because of how STUPIDLY OP the modern game's speed/meta has been for awhile. It bleeds into the decks too cause I feel like most new archetypes are just engines that have a bunch of effects that bounce off each other to lock your opponents lol.

[@invertbrid]

Yep. Back in the day, floodgates lot of the times not much problem as lot of decks are running removal for it. Games aren't end in 1 turn so u can wait to draw those cards, play slow and set cards. But yea as u said how modern YGO is being played made those older floodgates become more powerful than ever now. Tbh both are fine to exist, as it counters each other. If one cease to exist, the other one need to. That's why nowdays time wizard formats getting more and more popular.

[@TheArnelDeLeon]

If you play a retro format. Floodgates weren't really an issue. The current culture of Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't promote a slow-paced gameplay, so a modern deck in 2024 is more likely to struggle with a floodgate than an old school one.

[@pulsefel9210]

its funny how they complain about floodgates, yet the one card that could strain them enough to universally require them to have a way out got so much hate they banned it. gotta love mystic mine and how it could actually control the stupid fast games.

[@ShyGuyPal102]

@@invertbrid That is a very good point about older floodgates became more powerful over time! Agreed, most didn't impact the game too much back. Now a floodgate will prevent many cards from being able to be played in the deck because of how many modern decks are built. This leads to them feeling unfair by some, understandably so. I agree- they both are needed to counter each other!

[@_Vengeance_]

This exactly. A regular deck (not even specifically tailored, I really mean just a regular deck) can deal with floodgates easily. But no one wants to play normal decks anymore: they want to SPAM SPAM SPAM to get out 10 Extra Deck monsters per turn (that's including monsters just used as material again). Decks are one-trick ponies now that merely give an illusion of versatility, but floodgates break that illusion and stop such decks entirely. Rather than recognizing that, people just stubbornly kept continuing, instead relying on Konami to just ban/limit certain cards. But the banlist should only be used for cards that force people to tailor a deck specifically to counter them, not for cards that simply force people to stop having their decks being one-trick ponies.

[@noahcarver6133]

Modern Yugioh in general is one of the most toxic games I have ever played. I love Yugioh but it’s so hard to play this game and actually have fun.

Meta is toxic. Floodgates save us. Theres nothing better than locking down a darn unfair Kashtira or Snake-Eye with Fossil Dyna

[@christophermiller1595]

Exactly. The only reason they cry about it is because their super ultra meta decks isn't winning anymore and they can't play their 18 card 6 minute board combo. And the fact that this word "toxic" keeps getting thrown around says more about the people saying it than it does with the people using those cards. They always want to limit or ban something that's stopping their deck. It's dumb.

[@noahcarver6133]

Floodgate is toxic as well. Modern day Yugioh is just at a point that no matter what happens the game isn’t fun anymore. It’s just a stew of toxicity. People complain that Floodgate isn’t fun to play against but neither is loosing on the second turn. Floodgate is a by product of Modern Yugiohs poor Meta. The game needs to slow down or it’ll forever be in this stalemate of Toxicity.

[@captainblighe7297]

I’ve found ways to have fun by playing silly Alternate win cons and not really caring if I win or lose

[@jayd.doubledubs]

This is why I play casual and custom formats lol

[@MichaelQ-iv7pt]

"Why don't we bring lesser decks up..." Because that is how we powercreep into more degeneracy. You bring the meta down, so the game can be slowed down. I don't have fun doing 15 card combos to end in 3 omninegates. I would much rather have each player play slower decks. And as you mention, a big problem is just the amount of negates available or "needed" in the game right now. I can't play a lesser deck if I just get negated and my turn is over. It is just as bad as a floodgate.

[@vileluca]

If you need to run shit like MaxxC or Ash Blossom the game isn't working.

[@unsungangel7269]

Just look at yubel. Yubel used to be shit but after support became a top tier strategy and people hate it. So it’s like no matter what you do yugioh players will just cry about something else.

[@TotallyNotThatOneGuy]

​@@unsungangel7269 the problem is the game is highly unbalanced and has been for years. Magic and Pokemon don't struggle like Yu-Gi-Oh does

[@christophermiller1595]

Then don't do 15 card combos. Js. Or take 5 minutes to set a board.

[@christophermiller1595]

​@@unsungangel7269 exactly. Learn the game. Play the game. Be ok with not winning all the time. Have fun with it. And be smarter than the average meta player.

[@ValunarTonix]

The fact you look at both sides of the discussion makes me appreciate the video a lot more. Not just advocating one side, actually looking at both. And honestly both side's complaints are easily boiled down to one thing in the end: "I can't play the game". I wish we could return to the old days with battle phase reliant multi-turn back and forths, where 75% of modern day handtraps would barely do anything because it was just normal summon, attack (optional), set cards, pass.

[@MerlinCross13]

But you're living in a dream world where that didn't happen outside of kitchen table yugioh, it's always been like this from yatalock onward - the community.

[@soukenmarufwt5224]

1999 Exodia FTK was tier 0. OCG also had many OTK and FTK decks and many lockdowns. There was no such thing as kitchen or playground ygo being the main thing

[@renaldyhaen]

@@MerlinCross13 Okay, please give me a tutorial for a Yata Lock in turn 1 with GOAT cards.

[@Zmon3595]

NGL Goat format isn’t very intuitive from a game design perspective. I don’t like the way the game is now sure. But normal summon set 1 just isn’t it. yugioh peaked in the middle of the XYZ era having the best of both modern and classic it just needed not to get ahead of itself and corporate greed needed to be put in check.

[@thedarkspirit5084]

I do this with my Black Rose & Red Eyes in Duel Links. I have cards that bounce monsters back to the hand or have negates ready, but I simply hold off and let my opponent pull their combo. Of course the wise competitive players may say that's dumb to make them even play cause they could either break my board or pull off their Boss Monster with a nasty effect. But that's what I'm aiming for. A great duel. Sure I'll use my effects if I feel I'm in danger, but I'm not keen on cheesey wins. I remember a duel I had as Yusei vs. Jaden in Duel Links, I had 2 Synchros out & Jaden had 3 fusions. This was before Link Monsters so there was no extra monster zone. I had 2 sets, he had 1. Those duels are what I enjoy, the battle, the chains, and see who still standing after the dust settles.

[@desertfox1378]

I will never forget when I used Witchcrafter Draping to bounce Mystic Mine back to my opponent's hand over and over, and after I won the duel, my opponent flamed me for "relying on a single spell card"

[@Blackwingdesigns]

Hot take: generic Omni negates are floodgates. They stop your opponent from doing something but the owner chooses when Floodgates wouldn’t be a problem if there were less generic boss monsters. Yugioh went from a combat based style game to a OTK game where you play solitaire. So many boards end up on the same generic field and different archetypes still end up on the same cards. Make archetypal boss monsters and diversify the game, get rid of broken generic monsters and then ban floodgates, oh and Omni negates

[@PedroHenrique-mk5zi]

I love how the title doesn't have a question mark. He wasn't asking, he was stating.

[@TGSAnime]

I Forgot To Add it lol!

[@tarikkash4282]

It’s cool man!

[@alcoholicfatheroutside]

@@TGSAnimedidnt get rid of the exclamation mark tho TwT

[@Spanluver]

Floodgates are required or hard 1 special summon per turn requirement Change my mind

[@christophermiller1595]

It actually does have exclamation marks and question marks. Not sure what you're on about.

[@DetroitsReaper]

That's how I feel about every deck that summons 35 monsters then have 7 negates and 3 handtraps

[@stefanokic406]

Which deck is that

[@DetroitsReaper]

@stefanokic406 feels like any top deck does this lol ends with a board of like 4 negates plus full hands with hand traps

[@stefanokic406]

@@DetroitsReaper none of the decks do that unless its like shs and nobody plays that

[@DetroitsReaper]

@@stefanokic406 what deck are you playing? And what is your end supposed board look like if you go uninterrupted?

[@LilyMaeBlossom]

@@stefanokic406 A lot of decks have done this for years though? What game are you playing? GOAT? We're talking modern YGO

[@thesweetone]

For me, the worst thing is the seemingly 10min game of solitaire my opponents play every opening round.

[@desertline6272]

So true.

[@Friendly_T_Girl]

The short awnser is that they are a necessary evil. Just like kaijus. Im an Umi control player myself and people complain SO much...even if they play Snake eyes, Sync spam, Yubel etc and ask me why. Im about to get really cheesy and bordering on preachy now but bare with me. I tell them something like this. You can literally just drop a kaiju on me and win. Meanwhile. You would have spent 10 minutes setting up more negates than the entire Solem series. And im the toxic one for using one floodgate card? The game at large and you specifically made me necessary. Im the monster you and the meta created. You could play something else. The game could not be about omni negates. But here we are. Im obviously not innocent in this. But when I'm being called toxic by a litteral bird brain player with more floodgates in deck than I have fingers. Something isn´t right on a deeper level.

[@desertline6272]

So true man, I fell you.

[@WolfLandmaster]

I like it when they make new support for older archtypes or even make very old vanilla monsters into a new archtype (Memento for example) but sometimes Konami makes decisions that create an underwhelming experience. I really like that Ancient Gears got new support and the new cards are pretty fun but a few still have to include not being able to set cards if you activate a specific effect and some still can't be special summoned. The Transcendosaurus archtype is a really cool idea and I love when new Dinosaur cards are added but their effects aren't super unique and have a very specific requirement if you want to use their effects to revive them.

[@wanderlustwarrior]

Some floodgates are toxic, but I still have more of a problem with "one card starters that plus on everything, setting up multiple negates, with recursion even IF you break through them" decks.

[@peteryanes3413]

Yup 100% agree that the problem with the game to mand over power decks that had 12 or more one card starters cards

[@rattlehead999]

The problems are the negates really, remove negates and it's all good. Then make sure monsters float, stop attacks, etc, AND give you drawing power when a condition is met(actual drawing, not search deck).

[@RarelyMichael]

Wait what? Just based on what was said around 12 Minutes in. You say the solution to wanting to play an older/non-meta deck is to abandon it and play meta. Vs. The solution to floodgates being draw the out or scoop. The way you talk about it Floodgates are worse, but I mean come on. One of those is making me draw a removal card, the other is telling me to drop what i'm playing entirely and use an archetype or playstyle I wouldn't enjoy. Not saying they don't both blow. I will say I've never been as frustrated by a Skill Drain as I have Omni-negate boards. EDIT: You say that nerfing decks to the level of older/non-meta decks isn't the solution. Elevating decks is... But isn't a common complaint about modern Yugioh it's speed?Wouldn't nerfing decks return the game to a more back and forth slower paced exchange? Look I'd just vote for whatever has turns not take 3-10 minutes, personally.

[@MegaOblivionmaster1]

I'm more of a casual yugioh player not really taking it seriously so when I was playing master duel for the first time this year it amazed me on how to me at least annoying some duels would go. I haven't dealt with a flood gate but I have dealt with a person doing 5 minutes of stuff on their turn 1 activating so many effects and summoning monsters and so on that when it got to my draw phase that he was still doing more effects, I just couldn't deal with it. I love yugioh when I was a kid but seeing decks that just make it so your opponent can't even play the game or that you do 7 minutes of stuff before their turn even starts is just sad and annoying to me. Love the content as it has gotten me back into the card game

[@anthonym840]

This is really why some floodgates are necessary though lol. Only reason i play them is to stop these people from spending 30 mins on a turn.

[@CronoTime]

Unlimited special summoning is the problem, flood gates exist to stop your 86 step 6 hour combo. But no one wants to talk about that, everyone just complains about flood gates.

[@desertline6272]

True words.

[@Luxord5294]

That's about it right there, if we want this crap to actually stop then there should be a hardline limit on Special Summons from your draw phase to your next draw phase. Imagine if there was a limit of five Special Summons for your turn (and during your opponent's turn which is a concept that really irks me) that would stop this Solitaire crap in its tracks.

[@yuseifido5706]

Floodgates don't solve that problem at all. Combo decks just use them too like snake eye playing skill drain and other floodgates

[@SomeGuy1117]

Special summoning is just way too easy nowadays. It used to be that the game was largely dictated by normal summoning with special summons being reserved for a big play that either took set up or came at a large cost.

[@Aislinsweetdreams]

what's toxic is Konami's inability to manage a banlist without orientation supporting their products, exclusively focusing on future products.

[@barningknight8683]

It’s so miserable on Duel Links when I’m waiting 5+ minutes for their opening hand. Like holy shit can we play the game?

[@miguel_7515]

What deck takes more than 5 minutes ?

[@KaoruMzk]

Here's my take on floodgates: they're a necessary evil to keep combo decks in check, just like handtraps. They're only real a problem when the combo decks can search them as part of their end board (Such as sending it to GY with a card like Beatrice and using another effect to set on the field) or if they're Mystic Mine.

[@jo-neallewis6385]

My only gripe is that there's too many floodgates in MD for a bo1 and there's less outs to floodgates in the TCG

[@anthonym840]

​​​​@@jo-neallewis6385 to be fair there's not very many outs to a board full of monster omni negates, except for dark ruler no more, which is basically a one turn floodgate lol

[@jo-neallewis6385]

@anthonym840 DRNM, droplet, sphere mode (LG), ultimate slayer and out playing. Also handtraps before it gets to that point. Vs harpies at 1, LS at 2 and evenly

[@anthonym840]

@@jo-neallewis6385 yeah i use most of those in spliceable decks too. Like i actually play weird stuff like royal poker knights which i find works well with droplet, and divine providence. I also played sphere mod in that deck too lol but i find Grand horn of heaven just devistates most multi play decks. But sometimes ur out of luck in that ur opponent somehow still has the resources to go off of something. So i usually result to dark ruler no more, niburu, laval golem, or sphere mod. But i do want to emphasize that i hate that any of it is necessary to begin with, as it just tales awsy any pure deck run ideas. Only reason i add any of those cards is if a main pure deck strategy can benifit off of it being in the deck somehow. Like i built a deck centered around lord of the red, so i added alpt of hand traps that he can quick effect off of if my opponent wont do it.

[@Galaxy-Umbreon]

Floodgates are hated but necessary to keep OP cards from running crazy

[@Zmon3595]

Nah you won’t say that once someone goes full combos summoning 9 different times but you have chance if it weren’t for the fact they ended on a stupid dinosaur fossil with 1200atk after going special summon turbo as much as they want previously.

[@Runenschuppe]

The sad truth is that nearly everything in YuGiOh! has become toxic. The constant power creep is so insane that fair/balanced cards just do not get played, because they are simply considered "bad". In the end do all successful decks try to keep the opponent from playing. Whether that's through floodgates, (omni-)negate boards, one card combos to be paired with 3+ hand traps, a simple OTK, Kashtira with their zone locking or even Tearlament which starts a new 5 minute chain every time you dare activate an effect during your own turn (and the latter two aren't even considered meta-relevant, despite how insane their effects sound). With YuGiOh! having no resource system, it needs an incredibly careful approach to balancing - which gets immediately thrown out of the window because product management trumps game management. I really enjoy breaking boards or baiting the opponent's negate. What I don't enjoy is needing to play the one or two current meta-decks which are the only ones able to play through the other meta decks' slew of negates and protections. Which then also need cards costing hundreds of dollars.

[@phoenixamber6497]

Floodgates ruin Yugioh yes, but do you know what else ruins Yugioh? How fast the entire game has gotten. In my opinion, the game feels WAY too fast. Stuff happens way too quickly and thus it doesn't feel like you're playing a game, you're not interacting with your opponent. And for any of you who say "Oh just play GOAT format", I shouldn't have to be forced to play a different format just to play a slower, more interactive game. That's why I've moved on from Yugioh [I still support you TGS because these anime duels and analyses into different aspects into this game is fun to watch] to Magic the Gathering, its given me that slow-paced gameplay that I've been wanting.

[@dudono1744]

I think it's good that Yugioh and MtG play very differently. This avoids a too big overlap in target audience.

[@clockworkheart6417]

It is more of a case if "you can not have two things", you can get interactive back and forth games if, and a vey big IF, both decks are on the same level, a.k.a Meta vs Meta, the issue of being unable to play arises when you also want to play a beloved themed deck be it something old or something new but not good enougth , so you either play something that is not your favorite and get an interactive, intense game, or you play what you like to play and is not competitive and just do not get to play at all. ( If you so happen to genuinely like a meta deck, well those are exceptions and may they be happy playing their decks)

[@TeenPerspektiva]

​@@dudono1744why the fuck is that a good thing? Why wouldnt we want an overlap

[@dudono1744]

@@TeenPerspektiva So more people can enjoy a game, also what's the point of 2 games having the same target audience ?

[@Whafflio]

@PBJA89-w8rah yes. Flipping one and stopping your opponent from accessing a part of the game is fun. An end board of a bunch negates isn’t fun either but don’t act like that’s the reason floodgates are banned

[@deafengineer]

"Flood gates are bad because you can't stop them unless you have the response in hand to counter them. However, I like having high speed counters and responses in my deck to counter my opponents cards: they could stop me if they just have the response to my cards in their hand." Your argument sounds like, to me, "your [oppressive] fun isn't fun unless it's my kind of [oppressive] fun."

[@kaimobley5324]

Exactly. Straight Up "Rules for Thee, Not for Me"

[@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099]

I agree with you as well. Yu-Gi-Oh was far more fun when It was a back and forth tug-of-war kind of thing. Where the next card could be your last, and my some miracle heart of the cards luck or math and probability being in your side you draw the perfect one card that can save you. For example I'll go waaaaay back and set this up. Your opponent has destiny board with I-N-A on board and they end turn. You have 30 of 40 cards left in your deck and only 1 of them is mystical space typhoon, dust tornado, heavy storm, giant trunade etc etc etc. if you draw it you have a chance to play and win if not opponent wins next turn. The tension and excitement was what made Yu-Gi-Oh so much fun. Now it's 99% sit and watch opponent on turn 1 set things up so you have a mathematical 0% chance of winning.

[@PlayWithThatBlackGuy]

​@@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099Yugioh was never really that. You just didn't play meta when you were a kid Meta back then was hand ripping. Good luck winning when on turn 1 your opponent has already ripped 2 or 3 cards out of your hand

[@jobhunter5090]

They need very specific hands to do what your describing. Having seen old top tier decks, they still averaged 5 to 15 turns. Yes the game can end in the old days within 2 to 3 turns but even back then it was far from standard and literal factorials more inconsistent. Yu-Gi-Oh has optimized the fun out of itself and is a very common problem for choice heavy games that promote efficiency and synergy.

[@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099]

@@PlayWithThatBlackGuy yeah I did on occasion play the meta. I played the Yugi dark magician, I played the kaiba blue eyes, I played the joey red eyes. I also on occasion would play so called rouge decks like burn, mill, destiny board, exodia, and later god card decks personal fav was slifer. The back and forth I was speaking of was allowed and usually the case for the first 4-6 turns of the duel. Not always there were times by my turn 3 I had no real chance of winning due to cards opponent played and that was fine. The back and forth aspect was enabled by the fact that it took 2-4 turns to get your boss monster out, your ideal spell/trap set-up ready, your game controlling monster effects on the field. When I was spending 2-4 turns setting things up, you my opponent had 2-4 turns to either stop or delay what I was trying to do long enough to get your strategy established. You had those turns to set up your strategy to defeat me. Maybe I had a counter on field like a mirror force or torrential tribute or something else to counter your play or maybe I didn't. Now Yu-Gi-Oh isn't about that strategy, that mental game of chess to counter your opponent. No modern Yu-Gi-Oh is all about winning on turn one, making sure your opponent cannot make any moves or plays, to turn what could take 5-20 or do minutes to win into winning within the first 30 seconds of a duel.

[@bradleyharris774]

13:30. I think the reason is that some decks revolving around older Archetypes just cannot keep up with the power and speed of higher-tier decks. Yes, you have Konami rolling out legacy support for older decks and archetypes but sometimes that just isn't enough to close the gap, not to mention some Archetypes rarely get any legacy support because they don't have nostalgia behind them. Floodgates the only reliable way to even the playing field.

[@linkaiser8709]

This is from someone who quit YuGiOh years ago, at the rise of LinkMonsters... But IMO what ruined YuGiOh for the majority of the casual players was search effects becoming dominant. Sure, of course it boosts consistency and you don't need to find a way to make the cards in your hands work... But I think that was the beauty of YuGiOh up to 2008 or so, you had to work with the cards in your hand with some very limited ways to get what you wanted to make your strategy work... Nowadays it is more about just working up plays over and over around the same cards that you have way too many ways to get to work.

[@christopherb501]

You can see why Rush flat-out has none.

[@christophermiller1595]

This is why we hand traps and floodgates that are more prominent now. Which balances it out.

[@Dz73zxxx]

For me its the unfairness of meta decks that have less to no locks or restriction, and high summoning flexibility Look at tear, snake eyes, fiendsmith. They just keep coming back! Fusion route blocked? Okey go to link, and let the snowball rolls again. Its just unfair when ash, nib, ghost, cant even reduce their endboard product

[@linkaiser8709]

@@Dz73zxxx I do agree with that too, the meta decks, and honestly even rogue strategies just have way too many ''this that and those'' pre-set plays. I might be saying this without that much of an insight into modern yugioh, I did give it up, I only watch matches now, but every match has the same-ish strategy. Play this, get that, search that, send the grave, yada yada repeat. It's almost like duels are scripted now. You don't work around what your opponent has, you just do your own play and it is already premade to counter about anything possible.

[@LilyMaeBlossom]

@@linkaiser8709 That just about sums it up. Maybe not in a nutshell, some are a wee bit different, but it does a good job. Another big issue I'm not seeing mentioned is the Extra Deck. The Extra Deck is a nightmare, going from being something to get your big bad boss out to just a deck you can nab whatever card from as long as you play a singular card that goes "ye just get whatever the hell you're running out" It doesn't need search, it's very generalized, has loads of effects, and is absurdly cheap. The game basically has 3 decks now, two of which you don't need to search (graveyard and extra) and one of which you just search without consequence.

[@DrakeSilver]

I think that omni negates are even more toxic than floodgates. You can play around floodgates way easier if you are willing to hit the consistency of your deck a little than having something that essentially goes "oh you want to use this? Nah mate one of my 70 negates say no try again in the next duel". Honestly omni-negates and one card starters need to go away if floodgates are to go. We can't just have every deck just go "I barf my entire deck in one turn now deal with it!"

[@stefanokic406]

Well you can say the same shit qbout omnis. Run dark ruler or droplets lol just make your deck less consistent. And no omnis are not worse because they are one for one trade floodgates are everything for one trade. Omnis can be god awfull to play againts if there is a critical mass of them but there isnt right now

[@kuromoriofi]

@@stefanokic406 if wasn't for deck that put alot os monster negates, dark ruler would probably never existed

[@stefanokic406]

@@kuromoriofi if it wasnt for degenarate backrow twin twister would not exist right. Or Lightning storm

[@Trigger99X]

@@kuromoriofilet’s not go chicken or egg here. End board negates are a problem but I’ll take that off floodgates. I blame one card combos for that honestly

[@YXNGSHARK]

"You can play around floodgates way easier if you are willing to hit the consistency of your deck" Yeah, that sounds good in theory but is practically impossible haha

[@kampy19]

I think something people just need internalized at this point is that yu-gi-oh, at its core now, is all about making sure your opponent can't play. Doesn't matter how you get there, that's just the name of the game though

[@TeenPerspektiva]

The sad truth..

[@MerlinCross13]

The game has gotten too fast and too consistent to let the other guy get a damn move off. That's why the best opening hand is usually 1 15 step combo starter that does everything you ever want to get your entire board off the ground. And 4 handtraps.

[@SomaCruz500]

Yeah, I’ve made a blue-eyes deck with some meta cards to prevent playing. Two of each of these, Ash, imperm, called by, ghost ogre, effect veil. I run drowning, quaking and storming mirror forces, magical cylinders and magic cylinder. It’s real heavy on the stun/floodgate, that’s part of the reason I built a bare bones 40 card Blue-Eyes tribe deck, it’s a little more fun than the Meta deck. My modern-meta Blue-Eyes is a little too unfun from an interaction point for my opponents. Usually by the second ash, or first called by they quit. Even after seeing the actual archetype and thinking they have a chance. Which, arguably in certain cases, they do. They don’t call it “Brick Eyes” for nothing.

[@Ty17V]

I like watching DuelLogs Failed Archetypes and 9 times out of 10 the reason a Deck is featured there is "It's too slow," "Can't set up a board," "Can't play through disruption," or "Doesn't let you interact with your opponents board/disrupt their plays." The other 1 time being When/If or a Lack of a Boss/Theme. But damn. If I can't win without just boxing my opponent out of the game, then I'm not interested.

[@eavyeavy2864]

​@@Ty17Vi don't watch clickbait. He label 90% of decks as that because "it doesnt top in current year"

[@robertsixx775]

I personally dont mind Floodgates too much, but then again I was joyusly blessed with having a best friend who would almost always play some form of control or stun deck(Thunder Dragons and Salads back in their prime) while I sat there and struggles with my hero deck(back when the best play was Trinity OTK). So I just kinda got use to them.

[@ShyGuyPal102]

If you spend 10 minutes trying to set-up a board to tell your opponent 'lol no', then how is that different than putting down one card to tell your opponent 'lol no' and saving us both time? You are supposed to negate and stop your opponent as part of the strategy, so I don't see how that is inherently a bad thing. Sure, some floodgates feel a bit more overpowered than others, but you can always get around those too. I say this as a Gravekeeper player, so I acknowledge I may be a bit biased.

[@aetherwolf9288]

So I was thinking about similar stuff. So let me present you my fixes for YGO (remember this is similar to the video a general hit so some decks needs to be adjusted): 1. Ban generic floodgates, Archetypal at one (same as the video). 2. Ban generic draws and bosses (self explanatory Barone was a mistake and so were the Pot retrains). 3. Limit all Bossmonsters (here the first exception becomes apparent as decks like Salad would just die when you do this). 4. Ban „one card“ bridges (so ban Closed Heaven is banned, Yama is banned, but Exciton Knight are still legal. Basically generic archetypal links that are too easy to summon but also cards like Banshee that get you 1 card bridges like Corridor or Flag, in which case its a case by case scenario). 5. Limit HT to be only be activatable if you control no monsters. 6. Ban generic OTK tools (like Accesscode or Topologic Zeroborus). Sure some decks would be nerfed to oblivion (like Unchained [Yama and Tourguide banned, any Soul card limited, SP banned Unicorn limited also just one Caesar and no Zeus]). However we then could start to think about how to either balance out those banned cards (like requiring Yama an Unchained card). But also we can see how decks adapt to these changes. Like in YGO there are so many little synergies that can be substituted in (like Bystial Runick or Branded Tear but also more obscure stuff like Bird up or Labrynth D/D Unchained). YGO would become kinda like finding the perfect synergies to squeeze out the potential of any deck. Also it would allow a cardtype to finally see play that couldn’t see play before and thats the recyclers. Lab Setup for example or other cards similar to it would see play. So the game would also revolve around setting up your engines in such a way that you recycle one of them while the other keeps you alive. Btw all I mentioned would still leave a lot of decks in a too powerful position (like Lab would still have Daruma and Rollback as well as Arias. They would just loose 1 Angel 1 Lady and if you really push it you could ban Ariane; similarly Ritual beast would just loose Shifter, but they wont have to worry about droll and they would loose Banshee into Flag into Protos but they still could go into a Gryphon next turn. They also loose Apo, SP and IP but their main engine is basically untouched). So yeah this isn’t perfect but a solid start. Thanks for reading this text wall. Do you have questions? Ideas? Leave a comment down below and Im happy to elaborate/discuss with you. Have a nice day AEther

[@kindlingking]

I have complaints. Yama is fine, Unchained is perfectly balanced deck that takes skill to pilot. Ban broken Yubel support instead if you don't want Fiend Link to be a thing, it literally has contact fusion from grave.

[@aetherwolf9288]

@@kindlingking my man. I love Yama. I love Fiendlink. But the fact that Yubel is better at building an Unchained board than Unchained itself is a problem. And nothing you do to Yubel changes that except killing the deck outright. Yama being an Unchained soul of everything while being generic for any Fiend deck is a problem. Because 1 card bridges (aka most generic Link 2s are a problem). So either ban Yama or Errata it to require an Unchained card. And trust me if you think Unchained would die when these ideas become the norm you would be surprised how slaughtered the Meta would be (at least for the moment). Because there are still many ways to bridge between archetypes (like Crystal beast allows you even under the rules I have here to end on a mix of Springans, Branded, Tri-brigade and Therion). Also why I said that this isn’t a perfect ban list is because of a few over tuned cards. For example Alba Zoa would need to get banned (or most of the generic Ritual enablers like Archlight, Prepreap and Impcantations) because of the nature of the game. Similarly Kashtira basically has to die because there are a lot more one ofs Kash could simply banish forever (again they could be Errata to banish face up and Shangrie would only trigger from banishes from a Kash card). We also should address the elephant in the room as I never once talked about Boardbreakers. Most decks can’t defend against them and multiples are basically a guaranteed victory even when we ban most of the generic otk enablers. So the heavy stuff like Superpoly and DRNM should probably be banned as they don’t allow counter play that is feasible for most decks to achieve. To address finally your question: Yubel loses 2 Phantoms what basically means that most of their combos and recycling just falls flat. They loose 2 Pain as it is an archetypal floodgate. They will loose Eternal Favorite because it is a bridge for Heros and its a bridge for Superpoly. They would basically loose access to the Fiendsmith cards except when they open Engraver. No Varudras and Apo leaves basically only Gryphon as an generic extra deck option for them. No accesscode or Zeroboros makes it hard for Yubel to find an OTK. And with Yama being booted out of the deck one way or another they would suddenly get competition from both Unchained and Lab. On its own Yubel becomes a worse version of Mikanko or Tenpai. They basically need Ariane to even compete (especially since Salvation and Ancient Fairy dragon as well as Terra forming and Set Rotation are banned similarly to Trivikama would be at 1 or banned). So there is no easy way to bridge via Fieldspells. Hope you understand my reasoning better. If you still have questions/suggestions I answer them with joy. Have a nice day AEther

[@AndresD.deLeon]

"Just be modern" is the worst advice to tell people who want to have fun

[@Rossco1010]

If youre trying to play competitive/semi competitive yugioh, it is the correct answer. If youre trying to just have fun with friends then its a whole different story

[@Zmon3595]

Stun is the opposite of fun

[@qorv4973]

Yugioh needs to balance its effects by having conditions be needed. For example Cyber Blader has cool effects that change depending on the amount of monsters your opponent controls. Having a condition contingent on whats on the field helps. Feather duster may not have been as ubiquitous if Harpie Lady was needed to activate it.

[@davt2345]

I think every criticism you can lobby at floodgates you can also use against decks that set up boards with multiple omni-negates. As such I don't really understand why the popular opinion is "floodgates, bad! Mass negation, good", they both accomplish the same thing (stopping you're opponents from playing the game). I do agree with point that older/rogue decks should be receiving support to raise them up rather than using tools to bring more modern/better decks down. However it must be said that philosophy is dependent on Konomi releasing support for them and given the vast numbers of older decks to support it's just not feasible to expect that EVERY deck will receive support. With that in mind; if a particular floodgate can help an under-supported archetype compete against whichever behemoths are dominating the meta at that particular point in time, that helps take away the onus to support an archetype from konami and places it in the hand of the player. And frankly, being able to pilot an older archetype to victory consistently shows good deck building skill

[@17-MASY]

Also supporting and increasing the power of all archetypes leads to more powercreep

[@AlexandreLeblondWAV]

The Timesplitters 2 OST brought me at least 20 years in the past. Thank you

[@hintonempire1178]

Ban 90% of generic negate cards that aren't counter traps while you're at it.

[@davidgibbs-ms6ol]

ban all solve

[@nashcifer5666]

They already did that, there aren't that many generic negates to begin with now...

[@Zmon3595]

Only on the TCG

[@akiradkcn]

Nah, if my oponent will try spamming 6+ omni-negates then I will floodgate the fug out of his entire deck with no remorse

[@Luxord5294]

TBH the thing I noticed about those that hate floodgates are the ones who typically play Meta or OTK decks and hate it when their "end duel in one turn" 'strategy' can't work and give them an instant win. That's my experience anyway...

[@stefanokic406]

Nope out of 10 decks i play i roll my eyes 9 times when i see floodgates. And none of my deck are really meta

[@CronoTime]

Same as me

[@danielbarnes1241]

LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER. Floodgates and such make decks that were already less than teir 0 to 1 pretty much unplayable. Good luck playing a for fun deck when some bozo pulls up with floodgates for no reason lol

[@TeenPerspektiva]

​@@danielbarnes1241literally

[@christophermiller1595]

FACTS. It's the number one thing I also noticed. Time and time again. There are so many cards that literally stop floodgates while they're active, before activation and afterwards. So the complaint about them just means they're not privy to what the rest of cards do in their library of cards. The game is literally built around there not being one card to rule them all. It's how you build the deck. Period. Don't like floodgates? Then add floodgate stoppers in your side deck. Which is what you should be doing anyway. Js

[@Cameytoe]

I really like the idea of designing floodgates to impact both players in different but significant ways

[@jakeblancaster8498]

I would Ban the entire Runick arcetype and ALL Floodgates regardless of Arctyple relations except "Mind Drain" to the Forbidden List and unlimit "Called by the Grave". Card Effects are more effective and healthier as pulse reactions than being continuously applied. No Exceptions.

[@dragonmaster613]

Floodgates ain't the problem, but a symptom. The real problem is the Competitive players who either abuse them or require their existence to combat.

[@lordgong4980]

How dare my broken game have something else that is broken but doesn't have 2 paragraphs of text

[@desertline6272]

The lingering floodgates (D barrier, D D Ground, EEVirus, searchable with staple (ex. TT Thrust, Trap Trick), or in archetype (Lady Lab, recyclable with Lovely Lab too), are wrong because either you deny them activation or bye . Against continuous floodgates however, in addition to denying them you can destroy them with an industrial amount of backrow removal.

[@nuttybuddy7928]

Floodgates are hated by combo players, but combo players are just floodgate players with extra steps, as neither let you play the game when done optimally

[@dannyboers4704]

So what you are saying combo takes at least more effort and more skill?

[@nuttybuddy7928]

@@dannyboers4704 more effort? yeah, sure. more skill? more skill? not really, the end result is the same; your opponent can't play the game. combo players just get upset because floodgates are cheaper to play, so they take the "holier than thou" attitude because they spent more money

[@dannyboers4704]

@@nuttybuddy7928 not really in master duel every deck is basically free and there many people are still complaining about floodgates

[@nuttybuddy7928]

@@dannyboers4704 this has been a complaint long before Master Duel was a thing. People have been complaining about Skill Drain ever since it came out in 2013, getting Yata locked is technically getting floodgated, people have complained about not being allowed to play the game for decades now. The difference between floodgate players and combo players is about 10-15 minutes of watching your opponent play solitaire. The metagame has always been toxic, I just get amused when people try to take a “I’m better than you” attitude when they’re doing the same thing they’re complaining about.

[@yuseifido5706]

@@nuttybuddy7928 It does take more skill. Playing around or through handtraps takes at least some game knowledge and practice. Activating floodgates doesn't

[@Aislinsweetdreams]

The real problem is the banlist is unfair, completely making some decks, not even problematic versions, unplayable. I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh in 6 years bc my favorite deck to this day can't play through a single interaction with the opponent bc Konami banned the startup/recovery play monster of my deck. It's actually unenjoyable.

[@NottherealLucifer]

"Anything that even slows down my ability to summon fifteen monsters per turn is toxic and ruining the game." -every modern Yugioh player, apparently.

[@ninjabros6282]

Imagine they made a New Master Rule where now you are just Limited on your Summons like since Nibiru is a think you are only allowed to Summon up to 7 or 8 Monsters Per Turn like make it Fair enough man!?

[@DragonusDrako]

I fully agree. I can't play it anymore cause of the over obnoxious summons. Soon as I see a person walk in with 30+ cards in is extra deck I quit. That's stupid.

[@waylander9265]

@DragonusDraco extra deck has been 15 cards limit for most of the game’s life span. What are you talking about?

[@PlayWithThatBlackGuy]

Floodgates don't just slow people down though do they a lot of the best ones outright lock you out of being able to do anything at all.

[@adarkwind4712]

I'd like to summon a monster that won't immediately die.

[@Ty17V]

I mean...we say that Floodgates "Nerf" meta decks and "We shouldn't bring "good" decks down so older ones can compete." But if that meta deck was really that good, why cant it play around/through/out the Floodgate? If you can't be Meta because Rivalry of Warlords is on the Field, slot in back row removal, vary up your Monster Types, do something. This game is simply too fast and too unforgiving (and arguably unfun) to not be kneecapping Tearlaments at every on-field opportunity, cause given the chance they will lock you out of the game. If were gonna say "Skill issue," to peoole who wanna play Dark Magician, Gustos, Toons, etc. fine, but lets keep that same energy when Macro Cosmos, Imperial Order, etc. are on the field and your deck is a paperweight. If not, then something has to slow this game down, cause this 4 Turn-Duel Era is NOT it.

[@syruscoy1244]

4 turns? I already lost at the coin flip.

[@The1AndOnlyGoldenboy]

Full disclosure, I started this comment before watching the video. I'm not making changes to it. It will be long. Floodgates are GOOD. In fact, they are NECESSARY. The game is at its best when all card types are used in some capacity, and the sad reality is, most Traps today only see play when they are floodgates. The game is faster than its ever been and then you go and look at what decks are successful and they all are built in the same way: 70+% Effect Monsters, around 25% Spells, and maybe a Trap or two to make up that last 5% (and in some cases, there are zero Traps and that last 5% are just more Spells/Monsters). Similar comments can be made about the Extra Deck: Most of them are filled with Synchros and Links, some might have a small Xyz engine for Zeus, and no Fusions unless they're some archetype specifically geared towards it like Branded. Floodgates force players to be flexible. They force broader deck construction to cover a variety of threats. They force players to think outside of running through their combo line and/or protecting it against hand traps. Without them, this game is even worse because it's essentially two people diddling themselves with one hand and a Taser in the other as they try to push themselves to completion before the other can. For the comments of "drawing the out", this really speaks to problems with "Modern Yu-Gi-Oh!™" in particular. Decks are built to be as fast and furious as possible, and for all the talk of "interactivity", there's not a lot of room for it when most games last 2-3 turns. It used to be that you'd run MST, Dust Tornado, AND Feather Duster all at once to counterplay... or Twin Twisters, Galaxy/Cosmic Cyclone and either Feather Duster or Lightning Storm (or even both!). Now the outs are one-of cards relegated to side decks for a "break glass in case of emergency" use case. That's 100% due to choices in the player base. Nothing more. It "not being fun" is honestly kind of a misnomer because so much of what most players now consider "fun" is "I get to do my thing and you don't". Writ large, the game is pretty much one person having fun and the other isn't. Regardless of which direction you go, whether removing floodgates or adding more in, this won't change. Hoping Konami bolsters an archetype with modern support is a cop out. Telling players to "git gud" is even more of a cop out. Again, this relates to the notion of only one person getting to have fun. That's the game now. At least with floodgates, other decks than the top-tier meta stand a chance. There is no world where you can say it's better to relegate the game to the 6 or less decks dominating the landscape than it is to allow people the freedom to play a variety of decks and strategies. Anybody trying to make that argument is literally one of the most toxic people in the community and someone I would directly tell to their face to go fuck themselves. TL:DR - Floodgates are necessary and anybody saying otherwise is part of the problem. The game has turned into "I get to have fun and you don't" and fixing that should be the top priority, but floodgates are only a tiny part of that problem, not the bulk of it.

[@desertline6272]

You're right, thank goodness there's someone sane.

[@Tailong]

Back in the day I could make an argument why flood gates might be the worst thing in Yugioh but even then there was quite a bit of interaction between players, nowadays I welcome floodgates, it's the only time when games have some back and forth, for many years competitive Yugioh is a game of solitary lasting 5-10 min.

[@seanakima50515e]

I think the real issue is generic summoning conditions... no boss monster is locked into its deck like the old ones. Quasar, Blazar, calamity, etc. are all generic and can be splashed into ANYA synchro deck... Monsters need to be locked into their archetypes, and a lot of this can and will stop outside of the old floodgates. If you have to pay reasonator/ree dragon will you want to play calamity?? Probably not This is why i quit EVERYTHING is splashable. To a degree, especially the extra deck, thats where yugioh went wrong and needs to clean up..

[@idosarts_and_krafts]

And to konami's credit They are trying......after 25 or so years of the game Yeah, only NOW are they banning apo, barrone, savage but yeah...i see your point

[@Gameact3]

Isn’t that why Konami, at first, made the Extra Monster Zones and Link Monsters to limit how many Extra Deck monsters could be played?

[@DarkSymphony777]

​@@Gameact3 yeah but then had to do the revisions because some decks jist could not play under it so now it only fucks over pedulums

[@idosarts_and_krafts]

@@Gameact3 .......and how many ftks were made then?

[@dudono1744]

Quasar/Blazar are technically generic, but in practice you need to build around them (if you ignore crimson dragon)

[@BlinkSh0t]

Omni-Negate/Negate Boards are floodgates. They prevent you from playing the game... Don't they? "Well if you went 1st and the Negate board is yours who cares if the opponent does not get to play. They can just surrender and play another game or play a "bet(meta)ter deck." But when your opponent summons Dyna or activates Skill Drain... or Rexterm for me :D... Oh.. Floodgates make the YGO unplayable? No. Keep that same energy. Surrender and go play another match. OR... Ra forbid, you learn to play around these cards. Edit: I hope you keep the same energy that you've displayed here in your Omni-Negate video.

[@whodat4lyfekris]

@@BlinkSh0t hand traps a literal scourge. And Ild feel different if they were used as part of your archetype BUT NO, you use them freelance to stop me from playing as well and waaayyyy more toxic you ask me. That and Kashitas

[@tomw3886]

I completely agree. Omni negative boards make the game near unplayable for most decks. Also hand traps need to be banned. Ash blossom ghost ogre Maxx C all of em. Yugioh as a game needs to slow down to become fun again. Like what's the point of playing if your opponent is going to bring out this unbreakable board turn 1 and then you can't play the game? What happened to the longer drawn out duels of epic proportions where good deck building and strategies reign supreme, other than your opponent saying "You can't play the game"

[@BlinkSh0t]

So what do yall want? To play freely without interruption? Set up that "floodgatey board" without consequence? I'll admit, that sounds awesome but we'll end up in a similar state to where we are now. Hand Traps offer that Interactivity. Ash hinders your one card starters. Maxx C deters you from giving the opponent an advantage. Mind you, I don't remember which, if it's OCG or TCG, Maxx C isn't even hated from what I heard. I often wondered "What if YGO had Chess levels of Interaction from turn 1, what kind of game would it be?" Hand Traps offer that..... to varying extents. It may not be a great solution, given the replies, but it is one.

[@Revanaught]

Interesting observation regarding the heroes floodgates. I didn't know it had so many. At the very least 1 of 2 of them has been powercrept out. Dark angel is just bad to play now. Congrats, you stopped your opponent from using spells, at least until they take the free material you gave them for a link summon and use it. Not sure how good Cosmo neos is. Seems bad, imo, being so reliant on getting neospacians to the field, but maybe I just don't know how good that archetype is now. And the plasma is good, but needing 3 tributes and only having 1900 attack with no protection...he's kind of easy to get over. I play a heroes deck and half the time I can't even get him out because I'll only have 2 tributes on the field alongside my end board monsters. Dark law, though, that I can understand people taking issue with. Super easy to get out, and locks off the gy. Devastating for some decks.

[@runerdude141]

I feel similarly as a hero player. Dark law I would say is at least semi-understandable as it only has 2400, and nowadays it seems a lot of decks seem to have monsters that SS themselves from hand and have 2500ish. Ran a bunch of duels in the duelist cup, WITHOUT going into dark law while going first, and just got obliterated on repeat, even through my full combo. I started next duel with dark law, and FINALLY started to see some slow down. Almost feels like a requirement for heroes

[@barretwallace5336]

"Super Starslayer TY-PHON - Sky Crisis" is also a popular card that have floodgate effects, but banning it kinda defeats the whole reason of its existence against "Divine Arsenal AA-ZEUS - Sky Thunder"

[@jorgitosilva]

The whole game personally feels like you get floodgated at all times... you just have to wait for your opponent to play 20 cards for half an hour before we get there... if you have a floodgate it just expedited the 20 activations wait...

[@TeenPerspektiva]

Kinda

[@Zetact_]

One recent major problem with floodgates is that a lot of new archetypes are designed to be able to turn floodgates on and off. Snake-Eye can send their floodgates for cost. Ryzeal can reattach Mereologic Aggregator (sent directly from Extra Deck to GY by their own in-archetype cards) as an Xyz Material and send it to turn off their floodgates during their own turn. Powersink Stone lets you do the "I play in your turn" thing that almost exclusively is done by newer, more powerful archetypes, and then it floodgates your opponent even harder than Skill Drain. In theory this is an interesting step of game design, in practice it's "strong decks get stronger." The argument against "buff older decks" is mainly one of practicality. There are so many older decks that are "almost" competitive and it's easier to print a couple cards to lower the game's power level than it is to buff up every old deck. If you gave each deck a numeric power ranking of 0 to 100, it's easier to try and make decks into, say, the 60-70 range, focusing on buffing the decks that are most in need of it and not even needing to touch most of the decks that are already of middling power than it is to try and raise every single deck to a 90-100. There's also that as the game speeds up it does ultimately cause a lot of decks to lose their identities and do more of the same thing. When the power level is really high you don't have the luxury of doing a lot of unique strategies that might be just slower. Say the Destiny Board deck, if you wanted it to be competitive it would need to amass its letters on the first turn, which at the end of the day would make it just a different flavor of FTK, as it stands with the field spell Destiny Board is stronger while not losing that gameplay style, but it isn't good against most meta decks. Even extremely pushed archetypes can be waiting years for support, let alone someone whose favorite deck is unpopular. Having to constantly cycle between legacy support is tough, but trying to make the game be at a relatively lower power level allows older decks to compete without needing new support. If you say, "I want a format where Dream Mirror, Ghoti, Fire King and S-Force are all around the same power level" the easier thing to do would be to use Ghoti as your benchmark, buff up Dream Mirror a little, S-Force a lot, and nerf Fire King.

[@xerohpoint431]

Do people really prefer sitting there waiting 20 minutes for your opponent to combo off and build a board that prevents you from playing compared to an opponent that just goes set 5 pass?

[@desertline6272]

People are stu p d sheep, you right man.

[@Grozdrak]

More than floodgates, the biggest problem with Master Duel is the many, many, many players that what feels like 10 minutes per turn just to end with a board that doesn't let you play (be it because they're new and just copied the deck or because they're just evil like that). I've never been as frustrated as seeing a person vomit half their deck on turn one and end with like 3 negates on board + 3 hand traps.

[@ninjaman0003]

I don’t play yugioh anymore but I think it’s way pass fixing this issue. Floodgates are needed against the endless torrent of SS that the game encourages now. If you just keep the floodgates, that’s toxic. If you just keep the SS gameplay, that’s toxic too. Konami would have to ban a majority of cards from the last decade at this point.

[@ninjabros6282]

But they won't if anything they probably might endorse it later like Konami is just on $$$ Mode at this point the only way to have them know you dislike their Decisions is to just NOT PAY vote with your Wallet not with your Fanservices.

[@ninjaman0003]

@@ninjabros6282 i haven't played for quite a while. maybe close to a decade? not sure. but once SS and negates started becoming extremely prevalent, i stopped playing at all.

[@N12015]

​@@ninjaman0003 Which is basically during MR3.

[@waylander9265]

Thing is that floodgates don’t fix this problem, they’re only useful going first, minus the few hand trap variants. They also result in boring games where the opponent literally can’t do anything, unless they luck into the right card. Hand traps deal with this problem better as it generates interaction between players, though even they’re struggling to hold back the power creep

[@ninjaman0003]

@@waylander9265 hand traps weren't nearly as strong as before i quit. so i can't even pretend to speak about hand traps being a useful or not against the SS heavy style.

[@jjtjp2469]

I think it really depends on the Floodgate that we're talking about because you have some where it locks you from doing something, but doesn't outright prevent you from playing the game + depending on the deck you're playing it might not affect you at all. You know something like "There Can Be Only One" Then you have floodgates like "Vanity's Emptiness" or "Imperial Order" which, for a majority of decks outside of a very, very, VERY few exceptions, might as well just say "You can't play the game. Scoop it up"

[@anakinsmith4770]

there is no problem and reason why is the only show up in stun decks unless the format is ruled by 1-4 decks then they show up. this is also why having them at 1 is dumb because having then at three in an open format meant if you wanted to use them they would be the only things in your side deck. mystic mine is a great example the card absolutely sucks but because people hated it they started playing it to get it banned. look at snake-eyes skill drain, summon limit, they just used to best available card even though they didn't need it there easily able to play through boards. summon limit was only played because the two choice floodgates were hit TCOBO and rivalry. stun has played these cards for ages and people know how to counter a stun deck that right there proves they are fine. to me as long as hand traps cards that auto win against lower tier decks exist then floodgates are a needed evil

[@desertline6272]

Snake eyes use this 2 floodgates because 3 of his cards are bad card design effect, (send 1 or 2 cards you control to grave ...) is the problem. SE Ash, Oak and Sinful spoil. If they cant remove their floodgates with this stupido effect...

[@desertline6272]

And Diabelstar Witch too.

[@anakinsmith4770]

@@desertline6272 that can be stopped to prevent the negation. however we will watch this space because if i'm right once azamina comes out and snake eyes is on top again they will not play skill drain but instead the next best flood at 3

[@desertline6272]

The continuous trap floodgates that plague both players are fine. They can be either negated or broken by any removal.

[@BilingualRainbow]

Floodgates are the only thing that makes yugioh remotely playable at this point. Being able to summon 5-10 monsters a turn and then have them negate everything your opponent tries to do is what killed this game for a huge portion of players.

[@vileluca]

Yep.

[@thereaversden6847]

Exactly. It's what killed my joy in the game. I drop Mistake and it's gives me and my burn decks a fighting chance against the modern meta of a player drawing their whole deck in a turn.

[@thecompareablezombie]

Facts, speaking true opinion. I stopped buying the cards in 2014, except 5 Bucks in duel links. From 2015-2024 aside from DL, I had played on and off.

[@nagash0584]

This exactly

[@alonzoquioto2885]

And this is why I think maxx c should be legal but any cards that help going second it has to get banned because it “OP”

[@korlys]

> "Archetypal floodgates" > Mentions Winda and Necrovalley which get played outside of their archetype more than inside them

[@ivanbluecool]

I just wish they were more balanced especially skill drain to make you pay 1500 each rune to keep it on field. One and done basically makes it unstoppable for trap decks or stall decks. This way the time limit is fair.

[@easymixedsignals534]

i hate skill drain. back in 2008, my buddy running it and has gigantes

[@soukenmarufwt5224]

Run removal. Skill Drain decks are not good and most control decks are too fair. This is a falicy

[@ivanbluecool]

@@soukenmarufwt5224 they negate your removal. What then?

[@blackwhirlwind1245]

It honestly should have an effect that says you must pay 1000 LP during each standby phase or end phase, or otherwise, you destroy the end.

[@soukenmarufwt5224]

Fair cards don't win. Quite coping

[@BakudaSon]

A deck mainly consusting of Floodgates is the Buster Blader archetypes. The "Buster Lock" is stopping them from using the extra deck, monsters can not activate effects, and all their monsters are stuck in Defence.

[@HellKaiseROficial]

floodgates arent the problem, thats on you if you dont play a backrow removal, hand traps , spam special summons, links, spam adding cards and generic once per turn negators are the real problem

[@watcher2624]

Negates aren’t the problem, that’s on you if you plaint play board breakers

[@invertbrid]

​@@watcher2624until they negate ur board breakers too lol. But yea opening multiple board breakers definitely can get some good result. Like DRNM + evenly for example.

[@Zmon3595]

The thing about back row removal is that most stun players like to play an Old Testament prophet in their back row for such an occasion.

[@HellKaiseROficial]

@@watcher2624 generic once per turn negation without cost is the worst thing to happen to the modern yugioh, todays games are based on summon 3 or 4 of them in 1 turn, thanks god konami started to ban some of them

[@watcher2624]

@@HellKaiseROficial thank god indeed, hopefully they ban them in Md too

[@EthanKironus8067]

The absolute worst part of floodgates is that for some damn reason you can't summon a monster that'd violate the terms of Rivalry of Warlords/Gozen Match/There Can Be Only One/etc even if the summoning would inherently remove the monsters "blocking" the summon from the field--i.e. tribute summoning, let alone the extra deck methods--because that monster that you'd summon can't be on the field under the present circumstances even though getting it on the field would necessitate removing the monsters preventing it from being summonable. What makes it even more absurd is the pebble ruling regarding Ritual Summons, because while you can't, say, use a Lv 3 and a Lv 6 for a Lv 8 while you have a BEWD in hand or field (unless something like the above floodgates is in play), if your opponent removes the BEWD from contention then you CAN use the Lv 3 and the Lv 6 as tributes. You're also allowed to Tribute Summon if you already have a full field of monsters. See what I mean? How do people not see the contradiction?! At the very least they should allow the summoning of monsters in the way I outline IF it's the only possible option. The floodgates would still be relevant if the rule was changed this way, but it would do a lot to make them fairer, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds this more intuitive than the current ruling. It'd be a bit like seeing people try to play under Nibiru, it doesn't prevent them from playing entirely but they can't pop off for 40 minutes.

[@desertline6272]

Skill Drain should be Unlimited.

[@CronoEpsilon]

I believe there is at least different levels of severity when it comes to Floodgate effects that can at least stay in the game. There is a reason why Kashtira Ariseheart is banned, while Virtual World Kyubi is not.

[@ryanburgess4470]

I used Skill Drain early in Master Duel's life because it was my only defence against more powerful one card combo decks. I'm afraid floodgates sometimes are a necessity to actually play.

[@desertline6272]

U right man.

[@officeraquos5511]

Surprised I only just learned the meaning of Floodgate. I always just called it "Solitaire" or "Dramatic Coin Flip". Few things more aggravating than aggreeing to sit down and PLAY the card game. We flip the coin to decide turn order, they win the flip and go first, I sit and watch them play their entire deck like a game of Solitaire, then they say "Ok, so now I've set my board the same way I always do like clockwork, I have two digits worth of negates, you play nothing I win... wanna flip a coin again?"

[@wallycastagnir]

why do we need to nerf op decks? simple they are to fast i preferseing fdloodgates over sitting there for 15 minutes becasue i lost the dice roll and see my enemy just wombocombo

[@KnightFerrocous]

I feel like part of the issue of people wanting to play fun nostalgic decks and the modern super speed of the game could be resolved with officially sanctioned formats. Like more than 15 people would play GOAT or Edison if they were an option on Master Duel. And then Konami could even make money by reprinting those old cards to support those formats for real life tournaments.

[@MegaTroy12]

i rather deal with floodgates than omni negates..

[@danyul2571]

Yes absolutely as long as I can normal summon and attack I'm okay. If I can't even do that I'm annoyed and feel like I wasted time letting them take 10 minutes setting up! Despite there only being 5 on the clock!

[@felizquatroimoshi5553]

I am sorry but that's a really dumb argument. a hand full of negates stop my whole play sometimes. And I can't even take a proper turn. Floodgates suck, but in all honesty, they at least make sense. Being able to wipe a board, and rebuild a board from 1 card, is a bit maddening. I honestly stick to the concept that, anything that does too much in Yugioh, should just go. Special summons is 1 of those things. Too many special summons in 1 turn allow for all the problems that yugioh present. Yugioh should limit it's special summons to o1 or 2 max 3 per tuirn. Or classify each summon type and allow 1 or 2 for each per turn. Because come on. Saying floodgates ruin the game. But I am forced to play a certain type of deck just to have a chance to play the game against the meta, is absurd. There is too many things that ruin the game, and unless you're a "hardcore" player, who playes whatever is the next meta, and not a niche player who loves 1 card, and builds around it, you're not really suffering from anything.

[@RedLightz_TV]

I thought when people create a full board of Omni-Negate monsters,traps, and Spells with the 1 turn summoning of all that was a floodgate. One of the reasons I didn’t enjoy playing Master Duel much because it got annoying to deal with almost every battle. I just want to play my HEROES deck 😭 Edit: I am just learning more of the hero cards that was mentioned in the video… wtf??? When were they added?? Though I doubt I’ll use them considering they probably not on master Duel anyways

[@watcher2624]

They’ve been there since launch

[@Necromancer4267]

If LP burn floodgates are floodgates, then any monster I can't swing over is a floodgate to me being able to attack and win.

[@hintonempire1178]

Coin flip determines the winner at this point.

[@TeenPerspektiva]

Its true

[@Zmon3595]

Mostly true.

[@shadowgames6164]

Or rock paper scissors in other versions

[@Halomasterchief16]

As a Pokemon TCG player, nah, some floodgates are fine. We have had cards that turn off abilities for a long time and this shuts down utility bench mons (which is strong and impactful). The ease to get the floodgate-like ability has changed through the years. The problem lies in the strength, abundance, and ease of these type of effects for Yu-Gi-Oh. I think it is even shown well in the portion going 1 by 1. Most of these cards are not problems and will never be problems for the meta because the effects are too limited, weak, or niche. Unnecessarily banning or limiting them then seems unreasonable and limits creativity (might as well implement rotation at that point). If a new card comes out that enables degenerate plays with one of these older cards, that is the card that should be banned or limited, not the card that has been fine to allow in play for decades.

[@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099]

I've had several replies to comment I made on this video or replies to my replies to others comments that are either insulting of me or are brain dead 'well git gud' type of idiocy. To sum up modern Yu-Gi-Oh I will ask you to play a game with me. The rules are very simple, I toss a coin in the air. If I can call it wrong you win $100, however if I call it right I win $50. Would you play the game with me? But there is something you don't know, the coin I am using has two tails no heads and I always call tails. How long would you play that game with me, how long would you try to win a game that you functionally have zero percent chance of winning ever, how long would you tolerate losing before you give up and walk away? Modern Yu-Gi-Oh the modern so called meta game has turned Yu-Gi-Oh into that coin flip game. If you go first you win and nothing the opponent can do will change that. The proverbial deck is stacked against them even before the decks are shuffled and cards drawn. How long would you play this version of the game before either you mortgage your house to get into that tier 0 you have at least a 50/50 chance of winning if you go first Deck or you realize that eating feeding your kids or keeping the lights on is more important then paying an outrageous amount of money for cardboard with pretty pictures on it that will let you have a realistic chance of winning.?

[@kindlingking]

You spent your whole point talking about your made up game and said nothing about yugioh. This is what happens when people who don't play competitively try to judge competitive side of yugioh and make sweeping conclusions about it's design. If you're going to a WCS with Heraldic Beasts, you're the one who hands opponent that coin, yet you then get surprised that you lose? Play decks of appropriate power level. Play casual. Try alternative formats. But can we let go of this "yugioh is bad because my pet deck isn't competitive"?

[@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099]

@@kindlingking so basically play the decks that everyone else is playing even if I don't want to because the only way I have an actually realistic chance of winning or topping at a WCS event is to abandon my individuality and follow the mindless herd trying to be the best by being just like everyone else?

[@kindlingking]

@@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099 "abandon my individuality", "follow the herd", "being like everyone else" What are you, 12? Do you watch too much anime? If you were to just net deck, you would never even top. There's a reason there's a group of players who consistently win big events - because they don't whine "memta bade", they innovate, try different tech cards, find sleeper and perfect already good decks and overall make trends for others to follow. This is what it's all about - analysing format, finding openings and capitalising on them, not power of friendship or "heart of the cards" crap. Put in some effort if you want to win with rogue or off meta pick.

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

@@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099 so true

[@j.a.george9229]

I'm sorry, Sam, but nothing about Yu-Gi-Oh pisses me off more than Hero, Spright, Snake-Eyes, Branded, and Tearlements players talking about how floodgates reduce interactivity. I can't play floodgates because its not "interactive", but I have to spend 45 minutes waiting for my opponent to build their 5 omni-negate board on turn one and when my turn finally comes around, I lose any shot at dealing with them to hand traps? Bullshit. I agree that older decks need improvement. But Konami is not going to do that for every single deck, because they only ever follow the money. They are more than willing to sacrifice their old school players for the sake of fleecing as much money as possible from the meta rubes who want to win every game, every time. So until Konami get their heads out of their asses and give all players an equal shot at winning no matter what deck type they use, meta players are just gonna have to deal with floodgates. Floodgates even the playing field. Anyone who thinks playing against floodgates is frustrating has never had their precious $1,000 Branded deck used against them.

[@joshbone9888]

For me i do enjoy working around floodgates, at least the more basic ones. Omni negates i do find demoralising though. Both in principle ‘stop you playing’ but one i see as a puzzle. The other is someone slapping your card out of your hand saying nope.

[@phenomgaming3245]

Its the same thing but the omninegate is way harder to counter since the opponent has the choice to do it anytime. I dont think omninegate is that unfair unless its something generic like barrone or borreload where anyone can bring it out. Then its still a puzzle, you just need to trick your opponent into negating something so you can finish off the full combo required to take back control of the duel

[@shangothunder1055]

How else are we going to stop our opponent from spending 10 minutes in a single turn setting up a board of never ending negates?😅

[@Rossco1010]

By playing similar power levels of decks with some handtraps for interaction if you lose the coin toss, or a board breaker like forbidden droplet

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

@@Rossco1010 Yeah and we can just play coin toss to decide a winner then. It would waste a lot less time.

[@Rossco1010]

@@Treasure_hunter_21 I literally described what you play in your deck for if you lose the coin toss that still allows you to play in modern yugioh. Floodgates actually do it 10x worse because then if you lose the coin toss you actually just lose because they’ve already setup on you. If I have a setup red dragon archfiend board and you set 2, and normal summon pachy Dyna I’ve already won because I won the coin toss. But if you played a deck with competent engine and a board breaker to deal with a boss monster of mine, now we have an actual duel that plays out and can take a few turns.

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

@@Rossco1010 Competent engine? Not every one wants to emrace meta slavery. ANd they arent budget friendly in the slightest. Both things are equally bad if going second. The diffrence is: in one case your opponent setups like 1-2 min, while in the other 10+ min. And if you draw backrow removal you at least can try to remove floodgates. Thats aint gonna work against full omni negate board.

[@Rossco1010]

@@Treasure_hunter_21 what are you talking about? “Meta slave” dude I just talked about red dragon archfiend an anime deck that got a cheap structure deck a year ago. The decks both not big meta nor expensive. So your entire argument went out the door immediately. Learn modern yugioh if you’re going to critique it like that. Also omni negates are not common as endboard pieces. We aren’t in 2021 anymore, boards don’t end on 5 omni negates, they end on maybe 1 for evenly matched and lots of other interactions like pops. People complaining about never ending negates haven’t played since 2021 (2022 for master duel) where that design of gameplay has been deliberately toned down. They even banned cards like Appolousa and Baronne in the tcg.

[@highsol222]

No. Modern combo decks and generic omni-negates are the real plague. But even worse, is one card starters.

[@dudono1744]

I remember when Drytron was an absolute threat with like 0 1-card starters and an omni negate you can barely call generic.

[@roncerjani9063]

This game has many plagues actually. Mystic Mine is also a floodgate that everyone hated to the core, and at the peak time of this deck, people were more tolerant with negates than Mystic Mine. It's not set in stone whether negates, 1 card starters or floodgates are worse; it depends on what's doing more prevalent in the format. Since negates are the most prevalent force, they are the plague. When indestructible boards were prevalent, they were the plague.

[@watcher2624]

Two plagues can exist at once

[@bridgerbutler661]

This was actually showcased in Crow vs Lazar. Blackwings were insanely strong at the time but lazar’s floodgates completely shutdown his deck.

[@zeroenna8554]

I like floodgates because they are the only way for an older archetype to have a chance in today's yugioh. This game needs a resource cost for actions, and has needed it for many years. How exactly is it supposed to be fun to play against something that vomits its entire deck onto the field/graveyard on the first turn to end with 5+ omni-negates AND recycle the used cards to be reused the next turn? This game was power-crept out of being fun for me too long ago, and now that Duel Links is suffering the same problem I have no way to play the game and actually have fun anymore.

[@darkstorm2579]

If Yugioh had a resource cost like other card games, then it wouldn’t be Yugioh anymore. Not to mention that as long as Konami keeps its current mentality of card design, the same thing will only happen again.

[@zeroenna8554]

@darkstorm2579 interestingly, they are experimenting with resources right now with the shining sarcophagus archetype and a couple others. I like what they are doing with them.

[@darkstorm2579]

@@zeroenna8554 What are you talking about (not being rude, I'm genuinely curious on what you mean)? I have a Shining Sarcophagus deck and while I do love it, its major problem is no consistent way of getting the Shining Sarcophagus card (if you have Gadget Trio search it and the opponent negates it, then you're screwed). The archetype definitely needs more support, although I do like that it doesn't rely on the Extra Deck so much like other decks do (save for Dragoon or Draglubion).

[@zeroenna8554]

@@darkstorm2579 I will rephrase, I like the direction that they are taking with these archetypes. I agree that some consistency boosters would be nice, but I also see how difficult it can be to increase consistency without going too far. Yugioh is terrible for future-proofing.

[@darkstorm2579]

@@zeroenna8554 I see. That makes sense. Shining Sarcophagus is honestly a pretty fair deck, especially compared with the current competition. All it really needs is another way to search out the main card and it'll be perfect (and I hope in a non-broken way like we see with the current meta decks).

[@NeroLucifarious]

Remember people, games are to be fun for everyone, if you stop someone from playing, no one is having fun

[@animesempai0]

To balance out this ass format, floodgates are needed. The excess of special summoning has gotten ridiculous in Yu-Gi-Oh needs something to counterbalance that some way.

[@xsoultillerx]

a rule change to limit special summoning to once per turn and (i heard one guy suggest this) limiting monster card effects to their controller's turn would be a step in the right direction to fix things albeit very unpopular decisions. at the end of the day modern yugioh is so fucked i don't really know how you could fix it.

[@VillainBoss24]

@@xsoultillerxspecial summoning limited to once per turn would ruin so many decks it’s not funny

[@clownplayer7265]

Why is it called special summon anyway? Everyone does it in so many ways. Normal summon is the actual rare summon nowadays.

[@TeenPerspektiva]

​@@clownplayer7265so true

[@elemomnialpha]

The problem isn't special summoning it's what is being summoned

[@madeinmeme9688]

"Floodgates can stop people from spamming generic omni-negates boards" So, we are basically curing fever by breaking people's legs..

[@Depressioninc.]

When your opponent can destroy your whole frontline, AND backline and win in 1 turn, or win on the first turn, or extend so many plays that I can literally leave, get food, take a crap, start a family, and then return to the game and they're STILL doing more plays, then no I dont think floodgates are bad, There are so many worse problems in the game like the new Blue eyes monster coming out that ONCE per turn it can Negate 1 Monster, Spell, and Trap. 3 Negates in 1 fking card is insane. I get the frustration behind floodgates, I use them and I've fought against them, it aint the end of the world,

[@andrewmcnally5013]

Normally I disagree with bringing decks and strategies down to a lower level, but in the case of Yugioh, I disagree. The game is now a coin toss of combo for the biggest thing turn one and hope your opponent can't stop you, not the careful and strategic game that I grew up watching.

[@Zinkolo]

Bro, they're the only thing preventing annoying combos online. Meta gates are crucial

[@desertline6272]

The real problem is the abuse of unlimited special summons. There is a need for floodgates that slow down the pace of the game.

[@DanteCrowlley]

Negate or omni negate made me stop learning modern game, I just couldn't keep up with the old meta n the new meta, every time I try to learn something theres a new negate that everyone have n if I don't play first I'm done

[@timzyt63]

Both fully playing floodgate or fully playing omni-negate can be unimaginably annoying

[@redlox2]

Thanks for the upload! Appreciate it!