Are Trinitarians Idol Worshippers? Are Trinitarians "Saved"?

Full text to this episode here. landandbible.blogspot.com/202...
It’s a good question. I don’t know if there is a black and white answer because there are different degrees and facets to the question. Many trinitarians that I know seem to not really know what they believe, and functionally or “practically” believe in in One God, the Father.
There are different levels and degrees of judgment. Like James said, teachers will be judged with greater strictness (James 3:1).
I am not confident that “everything is going to be alright” for someone who insists that God is a triune being, a Trinity, or that “Jesus is God”. Trinitarianism is messing with what Jesus called the greatest commandment: that Yehovah our God is one (Deu. 6:4, Mark 12:29-34).
Exodus 20:2-3 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
So the question is: who, or what (according to Trinitarianism), is the one God. Is the one God the Father alone, or is the one God a tri-personal being, a substance, or a group, or a family, that has more than one person. These can’t both be the one God. The one God is either the Father alone, or the one God is the Trinity.
And the New Testament says that the One God is the Father:
John 17:1-3 “Father, this is eternal life, to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”
1 Corinthians 8:6, “As for us there is one God, the Father...”
Trinitarianism is a form of anti-Christ since it denies that Jesus Christ is a human person. To Trinitarianism, Jesus of Nazareth was never a human person, only a “human nature, flesh” that the divine person “took on”. All “deity of Christ” interpretations of passages like John 1 and Philippians 2 attempt to do two things:
1. denigrate the Father by declaring that someone or something else other than the Father is the one true God, and
2. rob the man Christ Jesus of who he is and what he did. Since Trinitarianism insists that Jesus is a god-person who only “took on” human flesh or human nature, that means there never was or is a real human person Jesus the Messiah from Nazareth. Otherwise, Jesus would be two persons: a god-person Jesus and a man-person Jesus from Nazareth. But traditional Christianity decided in AD 451, almost 1600 years ago, that Jesus is not two persons. He is only the god person. The man Jesus of Nazareth never did anything -never humbled himself, never obeyed God, never trusted God - because he never existed. “He was only a god-person all along.”
1 John 2:22-23 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
Who is denying the Son? Someone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God -- or someone who denies that the Jesus, a real human person, is the Christ.
1 John 2:22 does not say, “Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is God”. Far from it. People like me believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, recognizing the biblical presentation of who Christ is, and who the Son of God is. The Son of God is never literally God in the Bible. The title Son of God is given to created beings, especially to Israel, and to Israel’s chief representative, the king of the line of David.
Christ means anointed. Anointed by God. In the Bible, the Christ is never God.
We do have a judge, the man, the human person, Jesus the Christ from Nazareth. The Apostle Paul stated that God “will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed and of this He has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead” (Acts 17:31). One day we will stand before the resurrected, glorified Messiah of God, the man Jesus Christ (2 Tim. 2:5, Romans 5:15, 2 Cor. 5:10). Have we said in our hearts during our time in this age “a mere man can’t judge us, we will not have that man rule over us”?
Will the resurrected, glorified human Jesus say, “Depart from me, I never knew you” to the person who insists in this age that Jesus is not a man but is some imaginary pre-human eternal god or god-man?
Ironically, perhaps some Trinitarians may be saved by what they’ve insisted they aren’t saved by, i.e., works (Matt. 16:27, 12:36-37; Romans 2:6-7, 2 Cor. 5:10, 1 Cor. 3:12-14, Gal. 6:7-9, James 2:20-26). I have a feeling that one of those works will be how people treated the children of God who believe that God is the Father, and that the man Jesus is the Messiah (1 John 5:1, John 8:42, Matt. 25:41-46).
People like you and I are not the final judge (Romans 2:16). We don’t have all the information. God has appointed the man Jesus Christ, and given him the authority to judge (Acts 17:31, John 5:22, 27). But I think people like you and I can warn others.
“So each of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:12).

[@OneGodOneLord]

😬Thank you for being bold enough to make this video! You're "spot-on" I've been pondering this for a while.

[@laura-loves-god]

Thank you Bill, another good teaching. Just the phrase 'Son of God' says it all.

[@tomraddatz]

Great coverage of the topic! If only the right people will “hear”!

[@wilmavanstaden1026]

One of the best on this topic. The verses speak loud and clear. Thank you.

[@JacobSilverdal]

Great content as always. Thank you Bill!

[@helenlowder3424]

Amen

[@thomasbrisbane7122]

Great video as usual. Jesus did say" And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." I condemn the doctrine, and those who teach it because the scriptures say so. But most Christians have no clue about doctrine....

[@hommerecorder7003]

Very good. ❤Shalom

[@tahquameken]

You're right Bill, a lot of trinitarians sound like they wouldn't even accept Jesus as Lord unless he is God.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

Because Jesus is Lord proves He is God (Romans 10:13; cf. Joel 3:5 LXX).

[@northoftoofar3772]

​@@kardiognostesministries8150Acts 2:36, cross reference with Acts 2:22-23 and with Romans 14:8-12

[@tahquameken]

@@kardiognostesministries8150 If you were correct about your proof verses, it would mean that Jesus is the Father, which is wrong.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@northoftoofar3772 You dodged Romans 10:13. Try again.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@tahquameken No, because Romans 10:9 proves otherwise. Back to Romans 10:13.

[@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel]

Shalom Bill. Great question and is one I have pondered for a while. I actually hold to a similar conclusion as you. Funnily enough many Trinitarian’s say we are not saved. Here’s what messiah Yeshua said “And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Yeshua Ha’Mashiach, whom you hast sent.” (John 17:3). For this reason I recognise that their salvation may not be secure as they do not know The Father as the only true God or Yeshua as the messiah he sent. However as you said, I agree it will likely be their works that may save them. Yeshua speaking “Not every one that saith unto me, master, master, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, master, master, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work lawlessness.” (Matthew 7:21-23) Throughout the New Testament knowing Yeshua and knowing יהוה his father is synonymous with keeping the commandments. “And here is how we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that says, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:3-4). Therefore the few trinitarians who keep his commandments do know him in the sense they know him as they know that he kept his father’s Torah(instructions) and did not see them as burdensome. My last concern is with Revelation and mystery Babylon and it’s potential connection to the ‘Trinity doctrine’, however that is another discussion.

[@petromax4849]

I don't know, but I have a hard time thinking that Jesus would condemn anyone for metaphysical errors. That's the biggest problem I have with trinitarian theology: they insist that everyone must agree with their system to be saved.

[@vaughnmadsen7966]

Fair comment. Here's something to consider. The Bible is clear that if we aren't obeying Jesus's commands that God spoke through him we don't love him.....infact 1John 2 vs 3-6 clearly say we don't even know him and the truth is not in us. That's very strong language. I ask the trinitairian with respect......show me 1 command from Jesus that God is 3 persons. By holding to the doctrine of the trinity we are believing a different gospel and a different God. According to the Bible thats a big problem.

[@petromax4849]

@@vaughnmadsen7966 I want to be careful about assuming what God would consider _different._ When I rejected trinitarianism, I had no sense of switching to belief in a different god. Instead, I felt like I was seeing God more clearly than before. Maybe there are some who are fully aware of the biblical portrayal of God as a person and consciously reject it. Not everyone is like that.

[@vaughnmadsen7966]

@petromax4849 sure I see where you are coming from. When I was a trinitairian looking back it was because that's what I had been bought up with and I didn't know there was other options. I also believed that becoming a Christian was simply asking Jesus into your heart. I didn't realize to be a Christian you must obey Jesus and live like he lived. When I finally got serious studying my Bible I saw how wrong my thinking was and really started to hunger for truth. Knowing the truth radically changed my life and my view of mainstream Christianity

[@letstalkbiblewithshun.s]

Jesus gives one of the requirements for eternal life.👇 John 17:3 King James Version 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

[@jeffreypogue2579]

I received Yeshua at a Crusade when I was 12 years old. At the time, I received him as my Lord and Saviour and there is no question I received Yah's spirit that night as a result of faith. Through childlike faith I was saved and the witness of Yah's spirit has been in my life ever since. It has been quite a journey all the way into churchianity and then all the way out and Yah's spirit has guided and empowered me the entire way. I don't judge anyone but I will say if anyone worships a God named Jesus, they probably don't know Yahweh the God of Israel or Yeshua the Messiah, the highly exalted human son of God who is both King and Master of all. Salvation happens as a result of repentance towards God and faith in Yeshua. If someone becomes a Christian by giving their life to a God named Jesus, I'm pretty certain that is deception not salvation.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

Since the Bible teaches Jesus is the proper recipient of worship proves He is God.

[@jeffreypogue2579]

@@kardiognostesministries8150 Listen to all the videos on this channel alone and if you are a truthseeker, you will return to Yahweh, the God of Israel. Your concept of worship is shaped by churchianity not Scripture. To worship is to bow before an authority. Yeshua the Messiah, the son of God has been granted all authority in heaven and on Earth and sits on the throne of David as King of Israel. He is very worthy of our love, obedience and worship!

[@billschlegel1]

Can we assume you have looked at the Greek and Hebrew words translated into English as “worship” and seen that nobody else in the Bible appropriately receives such attention? ​@@kardiognostesministries8150

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@jeffreypogue2579Worship includes prayer and since prayer is due unto God alone and Jesus properly receives prayer proves He is God.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@billschlegel1 latreuō is due unto God "alone" (Luke 4:8) - so why is the Lord Jesus the proper recipient of latreuō?

[@THEsotetoldal]

Right on, Bill. To love Christ is to keep his commendments. Simple and exhaustive. By prayer we acknowledge God as our creator (i.e. love your God, what does He want from you). Do we pray to the High Priest of God or to God?

[@weakthereforestrong5852]

Whoa...one of the works being how they treat those who believe Jesus is the Messiah and man! Thanks for that. It's been a rough week of beat downs.

[@billschlegel1]

1 John 5:1. “Anyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a son of God. And anyone who loves the Father, loves the child “

[@weakthereforestrong5852]

@@billschlegel1 I'm about to preach this. 😁 social media time.. 😂

[@blaxlandma]

At some point YHWH removed the veil from my mind and eyes, allowing me to see the truth of what the scriptures were clearly saying! It is a work of YHWH to allow this to happen as Yeshua said to Peter. “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. Matt 16:15-17 When it happens it’s a miracle, you can’t believe how could I have been so deceived!

[@JudeOne3Four]

What's wrong with people? No such thing as yhwh or yeshua in Scripture AT ALL. I guess you don't know this stuff comes from the Kabbalah?

[@solascriptura373]

*"That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved."* Romans 10:9 God cannot die and be resurrected because he is immortal which is part of his essence. Therefore, Christ is perfect man who was resurrected by God and the awareness of this is the basis for our salvation. *"And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent: 31 Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead."* Acts 17

[@josephgarrett3075]

Friend, your comment shows that you're not aware of the teaching of the incarnation and that Jesus has two natures. Yes, God cannot die, but it was His human nature that died. Jesus is God & man

[@solascriptura373]

@@josephgarrett3075 I used to think like you, but it was wrong. *"I am he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen"* Revelation 1:18 Christ was born on earth as man and that was his only nature, after dead and resurrection he received from God new immortal nature resembling that of the angels. *"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep"* Hebrew 13:20 Christ is called our brother and has God like we have God so he cannot be God at any time (Mattew 28:10, John 20:17)

[@billschlegel1]

@@josephgarrett3075 Hi Joseph, consider the possibility that the long-held "two-natures" claim makes Jesus into a non-binary liar. Jesus, were your created? God Jesus: "Of course not". Man Jesus: "Yes" The two natures claim also attempts to eliminate the human person Jesus of Nazareth by claiming that the person of Jesus is one member of an eternal god who merely "took on" flesh. No human person ever "came to be" or existed.

[@mikeoc217]

They called me from Satan when I told them the Trinity is Pagan. I said read your Bible (not a Trinity specific like the KJ) but a standard bible. It's not anywhere in it.... 👹

[@rosemerrynmcmillan1611]

Such great teaching for Biblical Unitarians seeking to further their understanding on the One true God and Jesus Christ the Son of God and Messiah of Israel.

[@jayd2670]

In my area there are no Unitarian churches. What are your thoughts of gathering at a church that has God has "a trinity" in their statement of faith? Since understanding God one, not three, I've not been able to gather in person because all the churches are Trinitarian.

[@thomasbrisbane7122]

I have the same problem where I live. I do at least have some oneness churches I can attend. Love their worship

[@jayd2670]

@@thomasbrisbane7122 I've debated about worship at a trinitarian church but not sure. Most churches around me have the trinity in their top two statements of faith. Just not sure what to do besides tune in elsewhere online.

[@thomasbrisbane7122]

@@jayd2670In reality you can worship any because you have the Spirit of God in you and the truth. People are going to gravitate towards you because you are free.......It's only when you open your mouth( about doctrine)😬 that you will get in trouble. 😊

[@jdaze1]

It's idolatry of the highest order. Why would you want to fellowship with idolaters?

[@billschlegel1]

I personally can't regularly attend a Trinitarian church. They wouldn't want me around for long either. On the other hand, I don't mind if my 14 year-old daughter goes to a Wednesday night meeting with her friends. First, because the activity is as much a "social - friends" activity for her age as anything else. Secondly, because it's OK if she hears the "majority" Christian claims and measures the claims by Scripture. You might try some online fellowships. Also, check the Unitarian Christian Alliance web page for possible like-minded believers nearby.

[@c1arkj]

Believing that Jesus is God also degrades God's promise of Messiah and Jesus' sacrifice to mankind.

[@j7odnorof777]

Is *the" in "the Trinity" singular or plural? What is Jesus implying in Matthew 28:19?

[@readlesspraymore4686]

Definitely idolizers. There is no other explanation for their irrational devotion of a mysterious deity they can not ever know. Pride in their prudence.... Not of the humble unknowingness of children. They deny the Master's words including his 1st commandment..... They deny every aspect of fatherhood and sonship... concepts designed by the Father Himself. Edit: btw... I'm only speaking of the real zealous trinitarians who are well studied.

[@kersten49]

Can I make a suggestion on your words. Human and person are Roman Catholic terms. Bible teach us men/man or woman.

[@billschlegel1]

You make a good point. However, there is a sense in which we can use some of their own terminology to show them how wrong they are come. And ,there are words in Hebrew for the ideas of “self” and “person”.

[@Thewatchman303]

Spot on Bill.

[@theguyver4934]

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

[@ElCineHefe]

ABSOLUTELY.

[@claudiozanella256]

The trinity is just a CONVENTIONAL doctrine based on some statements in the gospels. The bishops of Nicaea had to decide whether Jesus was God or just his Son. Jesus said "he who has seen me has seen the Father" "I am in the Father and the Father in me" and claimed to be the "King of heaven". The bishops thus decided that "Jesus must be as divine as the Father". But Jesus further said that a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is more serious that blasphemy against Himself. The bishops thought "no doubt, the Holy Spirit must also be a divine person". You thus get three "Gods". Since three "Gods" are not allowed because it would mean having polytheism, the bishops said "they appear to be three but actually they are ONE, we call it "mystery of the faith", for the common herd is more than enough". This is how that bogus theory was issued by the councils. The error in all that is the bishops didn't realize that the "Spirit of God" (the Holy Spirit) simply is "God who is a spirit" (Jn.4:24) i.e. once again a manifestation of the same God, not a third divine person. Indeed you can see in the gospels that no third divine person exists with Father and Son: the Holy Spirit is again the Father.

[@followingchristalone]

I am concerned about other doctrinal issues than just one God. While I understand that is the main focus of your ministry, I wish to better understand where you are on other important issues. Is there a video, website or something where I can see where you stand on other topics? My reasoning for this is that I don't want to give my ear to people I strongly disagree with on more than just a single issue.

[@ken440]

One thing is for sure, the web of biblical smoke and mirrors misunderstanding is wide and multifaceted. Not just trinity. To be expected as we have an unseen enemy as Paul points out in Eph6. That enemy has been working on building misunderstanding, faulty translation and religious tradition for 2000 years. To answer your questions just look through all Bills videos on this list. Do the same with other unitarian sites. You will find it hard to find the perfect group. I dont hold to every topic that Bill holds to but we still have so much in common that I support this issue he presents on trinity lies. I loosely follow many teachers and spit out the bones. If I am unsure of a topic it makes an issue of study, so that through many sources and prayer the truth is derived through logic and scriptural context.

[@billschlegel1]

Hi, sorry it's taken a bit to get back. Allow me to recommend browsing some of the podcast titles on my KZbin page. I'll link one below of a short testimony. There are more and more like minded "One God" believers. Although I don't particularly like the term, some people refer to us as "Biblical Unitarians" - not to be confused with Unitarian (Universalists), who believe everything and nothing. There are more and more resources becoming available (books, podcasts, blogs, websites, conferences, etc.). Unfortunately, I haven't developed my own web page yet. Many others have. Check out the web page of the Unitarian Christian Alliance. There is a "Resources" link there. If you have facebook, feel free to join "The One God Report" group. Here's a short testimony: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHnSoqOkrbqssJo Also, my wife and I: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b32kaoinYp2rg8U Blessings.

[@thatwhichhasbeen-isthatwhi6575]

Let's hold out hope for God's mercy upon all those genuine but deceived Trinitarians, while at the same time, throwing all those genuine but deceived Jehovah's Witnesses under the bus. Oh, how fickle many who profess the faith prove to be. Peace

[@billschlegel1]

Hi, it's difficult to cover all beliefs in one podcast! I didn't intend to throw one group under the bus, as opposed to another, if that's what you thought. :)

[@protector9513]

Why did every church father affirm the Trinity?

[@franklicary3407]

GodtheFather + GodtheSon +GodtheHolySpirit +JesustheGodMan +the TriuneGod = 5 gods

[@user-si9bk3xo8z]

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3 If you do not know the only true God and also not know (the human) Jesus Christ, then you do not have eternal life. Plain and simple God bless

[@4321grp]

Thank you Bill for having the courage to "tell it like it is", It's pretty clear in the scriptures that those who consistently break the commandments without repenting, especially the 1st and most important of the commandments, are at great risk of losing the opportunity for salvation; That's why the devil came up with the trinity teaching in the first place. If we believe in a false trinity god, then our love and obedience is deflected from the One True God to a non-existent god instead. Same thing happens when people worship idols instead of The True God.

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

Depart from me. I never knew you. I think trinitarian teachers will hear those words.

[@user-si9bk3xo8z]

everyone who believes it

[@jdaze1]

I even i am YHWH besides ME there is NO SAVIOR. Isaiah 43:11. Worshipping ANY MAN as God Almighty is an abomination of the highest order. 1st commandment.

[@richardacosta1711]

I myself have never believed in the Trinity! As I see it Jesus is the Father manifested in human flesh!