Are We Nearing The End Of Tube Amps?

Episode 34: Are We Nearing The End Of Tube Amps?
Welcome to the Chairmen of the Boards Podcast! The ultimate pedalboard podcast with the foremost rig builders in the world: Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio), Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio), and Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects/The Rig Doctor). We've teamed up to democratize great tone and provide you with our best tricks, tips, resources and hacks so you can build the pedalboard of your dreams!
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#tubeamps #modelingamps #guitaramps

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Are we nearing the end of tube amps? Tell us below!

[@IamMusicNerd]

If you want the best of tube amps sounds and feel, with the convenience and flexibility of multiple amps in a digital format, I would go with Synergy amps. Those things sound fantastic, and you can buy 5 of your favorite tube amp modules with the head for less than $3,500, which is less than one Soldano SLO 100.

[@jazz_grooves]

Did the Kemper and Axe FX thing, now I’m more into tube amps than ever. A new appreciation for everything analog was spawned from my digital experience. Still have the Kemper but sitting in a box in the garage, LED’s went out and being in Oz expensive to get serviced and repaired hence sitting in a box now doing nothing. Great discussion! Really enjoyed watching this one.

[@jimandcathep9915]

I have a few tube amps including an SLO30, a solid state - an Orange supercrush 100 - and an AXE FX. I love them all and they all have their uses. The biggest surprise to me was how good the Orange SS amp is. Not a huge fan of the distortion on it - but as a pedal platform with an effects loop, it sounds great and perfect for gigs. Never have to worry about tube issues. The AXE FX is great for recording as its so easy to get good tones.

[@owlsonik37]

I put a warehouse HP reaper 50 in my hotrod deluxe and it came alive! Love it

[@TFWB100]

I grew up on multi effects and modeling amps. Now that I’m older and have a little more funds I have switched to tube amps and pedals. There really is no comparison. To the point, if the guitar isn’t front and center in a band mix, then the audience won’t notice a difference. But at home and any time it’s reasonable, tube amps have won my heart. I don’t play professionally but I don’t see digital ever fully replacing tube amps. Like music production, modern is great, but there’s something special about those classic albums.

[@Markstun]

After years of lugging tube amps causing a bad shoulder and back I switched to Quilters, they sound great.

[@Stereostupid]

They are fucking amazing I bought the micropro 200 and the 2×8 cab I have the interblock 45 also !they might sound better than most tube amps !I want the steelair bad!the mach 2 is great , the Cub quilter doesn't get enough attention at all

[@bluestrat21]

I’ve been playing digital amps for years with different guitar processors. Bought a VOX AC30 last week and was of course impressed as was the band. The fullness and character is hard to beat as a player. I agree that audio can’t tell the difference.

[@wakinginfinity]

I have two tube amps. One is a Bad Cat. They sound amazing, and I rarely play them. If you’re not gigging, you’re probably at home. Chances are good you’re in a bedroom, living with other people in the home or even in an apartment. In what situation does a loud tube amp makes sense in these settings? Even if you are gigging, they don’t want your loud tube amp. So, yeah, I plug into my audio interface and play one of my dozens of plug-ins. If you have a decent set of monitors and a quality interface, plug-ins are going to sound great. They do everything, and there is no maintenance.

[@vox1962]

I love the way they look, the way they sound, the way they smell. Have you ever smelled a hot vintage Fender or Marshall amp? Nothing smells like that and it’s awesome. Silent stages are ridiculous, I need a speaker cabinet, there is no other way to get feedback and I use feedback, rock n roll is supposed to be both a visceral and sonic experience

[@SweetcornTA]

Love the AirBNB backline idea. Great option. Many people would probably do that.

[@InstruMentalCase]

I’ll be playing vintage amps at home for the rest of my life. But for gigging / most hobbyists, the future is definitely primarily in modeling. I collect a lot of vintage effects but they’re so expensive to maintain and the digital counterparts (especially UA’s pedals) are so close that I could see one day reaching the end of my patience with high maintenance units like vintage tape machines.

[@johnfrewin7717]

Mick from “That Pedal Show” said that it sometimes feels as if playing loud through tube ( valve) amps is becoming a “ Heritage Pursuit” rather like steam rail enthusiasts.... and there is some truth in there, and I’m happy with that... I know it’s not for everyone and that’s ok too, I’ve just got home from a gig where I played through my Victory Super Duchess, and although I’m aware that very similar sounds could have been made in a number of ways ( which could have been cheaper much lighter etc... and the vast majority of the audience wouldn’t know the difference-to be clear this was for me...) but I’m still buzzing from a wonderful experience , and even if my health prevents me from doing this much longer, my rig tonight helped make a fat old man very happy 👍🎸🇬🇧😀 love your work etc & love from the UK

[@MrG3BassMan]

I am reminded of a Tom Scholz interview (2013) where he referred to DSP's not having the ability to produce the complex phase angle distortion of the overdriven guitar sound. He further explains this is how the human ear discerns where a sound is coming from in a room... And yes, I am paraphrasing Scholz's interview remarks. What I am assuming is that in the IEM's of the performer and even desk reference monitors the sound is as good or very close to the analog amp it's modeling. But if you crank in a distance of 30 or 40 feet or more, in a room, the overdrive/high-gain guitar sounds is flat - a poorer imitation. When I hear any modeling pedals out there in the clubs, the high-gain sounds flat. But again, the 'cleans' sound good to me. Overdrive - not so much! The Chairmen should try and get Tom Scholz on to discuss this further.

[@xtheory]

There’s plenty of authorized repair centers that can fix a Helix. Most of the time it’s something simple like a dead footswitch or LCD scribble strip.

[@Michael_Is_Avg]

I switched to a Kemper after moving to an apartment and there not being the plethora of options on the things like the ox box and found the ones I tried disappointing compared to the Kemper. I do love analog goodness, but currently just using a dream for the most part and really liking it. I also have an empress compressor and a Benson Boost on for my clean tones and I think that combo adds a lot. I usually live in edge of breakup territory. I set my dream pretty squeaky clean, but add some grit with the Benson Boost. I find that adds a lot of warmth and characteristics of a tube amp I did find somewhat lacking with the dream. I love tube amps, but with my wife not enjoying loud sounds, even with having a house now I'll likely use an ox box or something like that for recording/playing tubes. Until then, I'm happy with my dream. In addition, a big factor in tone is a good sound guy. With a Kemper and now this, I just plug direct (I have a diso+ to run a balanced out) and my tone is mostly saved from a person who has no idea what they're doing in terms of mic'ing and any post processing.

[@Michael_Is_Avg]

I did move on from the Kemper as being a dumb analog person, I found the options overwhelming and I had too many third party profiles.

[@hummarstraful]

I've got a Marshall DSL 100H and an old Line 6 Pod (kidney bean shaped.) Remember those? I recently recorded the Marshall head through Marshall cab with an SM57 and compared it to the old Line 6 Pod direct into my interface and couldn't tell a difference. The Pod is 15 year old technology already. Still use the DLS live though.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Bless your heart!

[@austincampbellmusic]

It took me one gig where I loaded in my fender tone master twin for me to fall in love with it. And it feels like a tube amp when you play it.

[@whenvioletsturngrey9597]

absolutely! I have one & it covers a lot of basses. It’s the future of amps for many players.

[@truthfactreality6814]

I have tube amps and a quad cortex. Both amazing. I also use a bluguitar amp 1. The bluguitar is a tube amp.

[@ronrobins3513]

It’s not the cost of tube amp use, it’s the volatility factor. When does a tube fail. The failure of digital is a less catastrophic event you can have a backup of the backup and keep on moving. Who’s carrying a backup of a vintage 69 Superlead.

[@walkerkyle73]

I have never used anything other than tube amps until about a week ago. My church doesn’t allow stage volume so i had to save up and come up with a different solution. I got an iridium, and with the room knob and some irs people Recommended, it sounded really good. I feel a bit less dynamics under the fingers, but it was no where near as bad as some have made it sound. But all in all i think i feel kinda a combination of what mason and grant think. For me, digital amplification now has a place in my rig, but I don’t think tubes or tube amps are going anywhere. Guitarist and the companies that make gear all still try to emulate tube amps. And even when digital hits the mark at some point, it is still an emulation of a tube amp at the end of the day. Everyone is still wanting the sound of a tube amp, not a solid state. I don’t think it is going anywhere.

[@kiwiramjet5625]

“Gid-day”. Gotta love an American trying to sound Aussie 😜 Back on topic - there will always be tube amps, just because they’re awesome. But yes, from a practical point of view I do believe the balance has finally tipped too far to deny, in that modelling is so good now that some bands sound better with them than with mic’ed amps. I’ve heard this in person too many times in the last few years. Enter, the golden age of digital. But I don’t think it will ever be the death of the tube.

[@rottalmusik6563]

Any experience with servicing a fender "cybertwin" ? How they are after 15 to 20 years now?

[@ronrobins3513]

What we’re talking about is scarcity and how digital makes the cost of entry more accessible to more people

[@barryengle8295]

I can't see any reason at all why we would be anywhere near the end of tube amps. I have listened and read a ton of discussion on this subject including this video, and the end result is still roughly the same. There are lots of players who dove right in to amp modeling and praise every aspect of its existence, no matter how good or how much sense an argument can be, they won't give in. But it seems the overwhelming number of guitarists and bassists who, even though they may use some modeling, will not give up their tube amps for anything. You guys both easily described the reasons why even the best modelers out there still aren't as good as the real thing, close, but no, not yet anyway. I do sometimes humor my friends who ask if their guitars are sounding okay in the room when the band is playing.. "Oh yeah, sounds good!" There's no reason to be mean, but they really don't sound as good as they did when they had their Marshall or Boogie, their REAL tube amp there cooking and movin air.

[@eightfootmanchild]

Solid state & feelin’ great 😃

[@jasondorsey7110]

Give me an 80s peavey over a kemper any day!

[@rottalmusik6563]

If you play silent stages with inears only, a amp sim pedal like the UA stuff is a no brainer. Take two to enshure, less hustle with setup and carry things around.

[@stevekannes89]

No they’re not going anywhere for quite a while. I believe in the studio there’s a great application for tubes. Tube amps, to me, has that natural”sag” you get while you hit it hard. While limiting yourself into that automatic mid-range.

[@dannykirkpatrick912]

They will keep selling as long as people will pay for them. I have mostly used solid state my 30 plus years of playing. I didn’t even know there was a difference till I’d been playing for the first 10 years! It’s not really that big of a deal really. I’ve been considering getting a Boss Katana. My experience with tube amps honestly wasn’t that great- sure they have that vintage sound but- that sound is generally way more expensive than I can justify. And tubes eventually wear out and have to be replaced. My Fender Princeton 112 (solid state) has been going strong for 20 years with no issues.

[@loganmcgee18]

Sweet logo, not sure if it's new. Any merch with it?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not currently planned.

[@MetaphysicalMusician]

Question Mason My amps are sitting an attic I have Shiva ,Hot rod delux ,Mesa 22cal and a TSL Marshall..will the cold hurt my amps?I'm hard pressed for space Thanks for your time.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If it's dry and not a huge fluctuation in temp you should be OK. Alternatives are to insulate the attic. My biggest concern would be with big temp changes is the solder becoming brittle and the moisture creating oxidation of your contacts in the amp.

[@MetaphysicalMusician]

@@VertexEffectsInc 👍

[@MetaphysicalMusician]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thx

[@Fartinhalerr]

I don't think so, but I do think they'll become more expensive and only die hard tone seekers will buy them. But they'll always be available My amps are a mesa mark iv rev a, mesa boogie f50 combo, also practice amps fender bullet /Marshall mg10 also q grip of amp sims from neural dsp, amplitube, revalver and bogren one knob. Next amp I plan to get is the engl savage 120

[@rag103]

I’m lugging 2 cabs and 2 tube heads to every gig!

[@g_and_kikos_studio]

How would I have to mod my vintage 67 Twin Reverb to use a Power Station or Reactive Load ??

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You need any mods. The Fryette will be better for the Twin since it has offsets for 4, 8, and 16 ohms (you'll need 4 ohms for your Twin). It just going to require a speaker cable from the amplifier to the power load (male/male 1/4"). That will provide the load for your Twin Reverb. You'll then take the IR output from the Power Load IR and feed your DAW/Interface and you can select your cab type on the Power Load IR or upload your own IRs. I'm sure they have plenty of videos to show you the process.

[@g_and_kikos_studio]

@@VertexEffectsInc thank you for getting back to me. I'm super glad I don't have to do any mods. I'm gonna check it out. It would be great for my rig since I have a Mesa Tremoverb head as well, I figured it would be alot more involved process for a combo. I'd much rather do this than my current way using plugin amp sim when my 2 year old is trying to nap. And the Fryette is the 1 I'd prefer to use. So great news....

[@oliverkraft1621]

if you look at history nothing ever ends, it all comes back

[@waynegram8907]

Tube Preamp amplifier pedals and FET preamp amplifier pedals are the way to go they are smaller size and can use a seymour duncan powerstage 170watt or 200watt which can fit on your pedal board and use a two note IR speaker processor. Why would anyone want to bring and carry an amplifier head and speaker cabinets at your gigs is totally stuck in the past. Once you sign a contract to a record label and have fans then gig with your tube amplifiers when you have roadies but until than this is the way to go. The equipment now gets weigh at the airports so they charge you a lot of money so they is why a lot of bands are gigs using vans again driving to gig to gig but the gas is so expensive to pump a full tank of gas in a van to haul your equipment. They got a lot of companies now making those FET amplifier pedals plus you can use IR speaker processors and a seymour duncan powerstage 200 watt which will get you very loud to play at most gigs until you get signed to a record label.

[@markinthemix6055]

Interesting point on the tube amp falling down the stairs and 2 tubes break therefore this amp now doesn’t work. It requires servicing. I wonder how many tube amp owners could or would do the same abuse test. I’ve owned it all. I love tube amps but l gigged with a first generation Kemper yesterday that’s 8+ years old. I like and l own it all.

[@brianmiller6828]

Also, BTW, I'm using modelers more and tube amps less as time goes on... currently, my modeling amps are in use, my tube amp has been in the shop for an extended period of time...

[@guitmickify]

That will depend on whether or not there are gigs, 2112 could be a reality. Pay attention. Stay free.. I was weened on a '61 Twin, now I rock out 🎸🔊 with a '57 🤓

[@stevenbryan7586]

Tube amps aren't going anywhere. Yeah, silent stages, in-ear monitors whatever. I bought a quad cortex, it took a dump within a year. Got it replaced and sold it. Did it sound good? Yes it certainly did, but it wasn't for me reliability aside. Tonebnb is an excellent idea!

[@subjectt.change6599]

When tube amps die, it will be because Solid State designers stopped trying to replicate tubes, and finally made something BETTER.

[@eggsmann594]

I agree. Late 60s and early 70s solid state amps shit all over modern voiced solid state.

[@eggsmann594]

...they weren't trying to sound like tube amps back then. They had their own sound.

[@johnnylayton1672]

Because you guys are ultimately talking about art not science or even convenience, it's not easy to predict when tube amps will die. Oil painting still a thing too if I recall correctly...

[@jasondorsey7110]

Sailboats are still a thing, not because they have to be, but because it's an experience

[@vinsanityguitar]

Digital still has a long way to go. Tube amps will be around for a while more. But if it is true definitely hang on to your tube amps they'll be a worth a lot of money one day.

[@brianmiller6828]

I see alot of potential problems for tonebnb. What if the guy doesn't show up? What if the amp doesn't work? Also, the hundred bucks you mentioned, doesn't seem like enough to deliver, wait, and then pick up your amp. 200? Maybe. 300? Okay, I'll do it.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Aren't these all issues that could equally happen with AirBnb or Turo? Seems like the fears are just as legitimate in any of these sorts of industries and yet they're somehow circumvented???

[@Burnt_Gerbil]

Tube amps for life! ☝️😲

[@TheJudy79]

Tube amps will never end they just sound way better then a modelers everybody that I know that tried modelers went back to tube Amp they said there is no comparison and they are right tube amps till the day I die

[@markinthemix6055]

In addition l strongly disagree that a Kemper can not be serviced. There’s a service center in Nashville TN British Audio. Sells and services Kemper.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Unless they've been provided software from Kemper, there will be a limit to how much they can do and will primarily be restricted to hardware as I indicated. This is one service center - I'm unaware of any others outside of Kemper.

[@Tommyalpaca]

I built this app. Brian must have told you about this.. wow.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I’ve been talking about this for maybe 8 years, I’m sure I’m not the only guy to think of it. Did you launch the app?

[@Jaidezilla]

Two bands will never die. However they might get a lot smaller.

[@monsirto]

I haven't used an amp for recording in over a decade. Right pain in the bum, they are.

[@michael_caz_nyc]

I caution all of you, who Sold precious effect-Pedals, Rack-gear and Vintage-guitars . . . everything in life is Cyclical. It's a great discussion though. I love my 65 Blackface Fender Princeton Reverb, but also really-enjoy my little Yamaha THR30II & my Fender Rumble 100.

[@nueeardente4240]

Soon or late tube amps will be collectibles no one uses like old phonographs or steam locomotives . Not because it is bad, just because that's the way things goes.

[@rottalmusik6563]

We all love moving air and there won't be any plugin for moving air ever. In that point tube amps will stay for our need of Real experiences. I hope that some time loud amps on stages will be a thing again, cause thats the way I played most of my Gigs. Its the way it should be. But for convenience sake a Modeller has its good sides.

[@TommyFedak]

“Great tone is heavy” Uncle Larry.

[@whenvioletsturngrey9597]

The tube amp has been dead for a while now. Only boutique builders are building quality tube amps, at this point. With that said, I see the tube amp being more like something you rent for recording, in the future. With modeling & digital clone amps, there’s no reason to have a tube amp any longer. Digital amps are so versatile. You can play one quietly at home, pushed into breakup. Or push it up to stadium rock levels with the same sound. As digital continues to improve, this will only get better. So yes, most people won’t need to own a tube amp. Critical situations may require a player to rent a vintage tube amp. I can’t see a world where tube amps keep up their market dominance. Big studios will have them. Rental houses will have them.

[@fernandom.7956]

Are We Nearing The End Of Tube Amps? yes

[@ken3404]

Not any time soon... You'll never find anyone, including manufactures, trying to make their tube amp sound solid state. (except maybe Marshall's new ownership).

[@ka4sxi]

What kind of amps are being used by country musicians? Tube? It seems to me that country music is the closest thing to what rock and roll was. Especially the live show aspect. Thoughts?

[@jamesnortonofficial1566]

I hope they stay around because nothing sounds better than cranked speakers and a rumbling cabinet

[@ianmartens5286]

I will fight for the right to use my 15 watt Traynor

[@nayaleezy]

military surplus tubes will save us

[@torstenbangert4026]

No tube amps means nothing to model after. Boom!

[@rottalmusik6563]

if fender called it the "tone replicator" or "tone sucker" would we want to buy it?🤣😜

[@BCEpedals]

Short answer: no. Not until they physically can’t be built anymore.

[@mattgilley72]

How in the world could there ever be no more tube amps....the best sounding stuff ever recorded was most likely done through a tube amp.....good lord music would never ever be the same .....and how could it be dated ..... For years and years tube amps have been the standard ..... technology may have come a long ways....but it will never have that real tube amp feel....so imo tube amps are here to stay.....as they should.

[@whenvioletsturngrey9597]

I think bigger studios will have a stock of vintage amps. Rental houses will, as well. I think a lot of players will find it more realistic to use modelers/digital amp. Absolutely Replacing a tube amp, seems a long way off. But, they are close enough now to make sense for most situations.

[@maynardmadsen8712]

There will always be people who play tube amps.

[@subjectt.change6599]

It’s all just electronics. E/IR, P/IE. Stop fussing and build a better pedal!

[@kingfisher7960]

Nope...they are still being modeled therefore will still be built. Asked the same thing every decade since the IC chips became popular in the 80s. Wont happen.

[@timothykresko1984]

Your NOS description is BS.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You mean my statement regarding NOS Tubes? If so, clearly you're not on the manufacturing side. This is not a uniquely held opinion as it relates to NOS tubes.

[@timothykresko1984]

@@VertexEffectsInc I have thousands of them. They come in small batches, from collections. I have some of the rarest, most comprehensive tube testers on the planet. In my experience, less than one percent of NOS tubes I’ve collected fit your description.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@timothykresko1984 tube testers can only tell you so much. Don't get me wrong, it's a good baseline to have, but won't necessarily translate to high performance in an amplifier in the field. Many collections from from auctions or resellers that offload graded-out parts are mostly commonly parts that didn't meet a manufacturer's specs and they use a third party agent to broker a sell-off. This is common in the industry and was more true 50+ years ago when tubes when tubes were still widely used in industry and as companies moved away from tubes and started to sell off large quantities. Most of the BEST stuff was already bought up and has been for decades and is either already been exhausted from use or is being held hostage by a collector. Most of the stuff you see for sale fits the description that I indicated in the podcast. Perhaps you have a source for tubes that is specific to you, but most people buying NOS tubes are getting the rejects that were graded out decades ago. If your tubes are as good as you say, you're the exception and not the rule, and I'm providing you a bit of latitude on that you and I would norm around what would constitute a quality and reliable tube. However, I seriously doubt we're coming from the same place. For most players the opportunity cost of investing in a tube that's 3-4x a currently produced tube just isn't worth the difference given the speculation of the source of the NOS tubes and the unknowns present.

[@timothykresko1984]

@@VertexEffectsInc I def hold them hostage. I also use them in both guitar and HiFi applications. I’m aware of the characteristics of both microphonic and otherwise noisy tubes. Good luck:)

[@denmar355]

No

[@ronrobins3513]

Being such a stick in the mud about digital in general just smacks of elitism. Just another way to separate your self. Kinda like when everyone moved from hardware MPCs to Ableton Live. If you can get down it doesn’t matter the gear. Sure there’s a psychological factor, but who’s issue is that…certainly not the gear.

[@danielkirkland8592]

Tubes are for boomers

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right ;)

[@danielkirkland8592]

@@VertexEffectsInc I means it's like anything else. Once a paradigm shift happens there's always some things that just take a little longer to shift

[@jasondorsey7110]

@@danielkirkland8592 And there will always be hipsters who identify with the old ways

[@cchavez248]

Tube amps may end because of the scarcity of tube manufacturers. Let's face it, Russia and China are, by far, the largest makers of tubes with Czechoslovakia bringing in the rear. World situations, as they stand, may make getting new tubes a case of pandering to Communist countries to continue trade. Along with tube scarcity, the quality of digital simulations will make it harder to justify maintaining and toting a tube amp. Finally, if amp manufacturers make their digital offerings modular, their serviceability will become more economical and faster than troubleshooting and servicing a tube amp. If these three thing occur, the days of the tube amp may be numbered!

[@84slow]

Luxury items

[@caseysnyder6086]

🖕🖕 I’m always using a tube amp!!

[@marceli155]

Digital they will be never good as tube amps !!!! never !!!!

[@marceli155]

what is a stupid question ???????????????????????????????????????????

[@spencerdeaton7202]

No