Are You Dampening Your Forgiveness?

[@ashleydorey3987]

I was experimenting with this very thing at work today, and the differences were immediate: with the bow-spec stop setup, I noticed that the arrow didn't always hit behind my pin; but when I pushed that stop out by a half inch, the forgiveness that you spoke of in this video was there for each and every arrow. Very helpful to see a professional making videos on a such a relatively small part of our kit. Excellent stuff!

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Awesome! I'm glad it worked for you as well!

[@decaturridgebees8761]

how do you see this helping in a hunting situation? aside from the forgiveness (accuracy) factor. but will it increase noise?

[@gordonneverdies]

This is super interesting. Gonna try tomorrow.

[@josebueno9518]

You should do more videos about how yo execute your shoot you are excellent shooter thanks

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Thank you 🙂 that's very kind. I'll see what I can't get together.

[@trophyhilll]

As long as that D loop is, you could get another inch of draw length on that how if you shorten the d loop. The further away from that string l, the louder your bow

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

That's less efficient, though. Check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2i9YWV7l8qJqsk

[@Fortyjustice]

Interesting.

[@timbow50]

Something to think for sure. Only problem is-I can't hold still enough to be able to tell the difference lol. My 5 shot groups only average 8" diameter on a good day. Gotta be able to hold within 3" diameter? I'm guessing is what you do? Anyway, I had already gapped my Elite Ritual 33 by 3/4" to help reduce sound on my hunting setup. Used an app on my phone to record and show decibel readings. Had no idea a gap may give more forgiveness??

[@_Error_404_Goodbye]

Metrics like this are why I was born 😂😂🙈 I could spend weeks on this and still crave more lol

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

😂😂

[@orsonbroadbent3453]

Thanks I going to play with my strings stop thanks for the info 👍

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

For sure! I hope it works out for you

[@MikeyWoomer]

Definitely gonna try that out. I had mine way In once and it was so loud.. but i don't have any thing on my strings to quiet them down either. It's a target bow so noise isn't as big of an issue. I'm new to the target world I'm so use to trying to make it quiet hahaha

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

I don't ekrry about noise so much either. Hopefully, you can get a little more accuracy from it! Thanks for watching

[@benjamincooper8531]

That's really interesting. I would have thought the opposite seeing as short brace heigth bows are generally considered less forgiving due to the arrow being on the string longer and therefore more likely for you to negatively influence the arrow before it leaves the string. Definitley worth giving a try though. Thanks!

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Yeah I know! That's what I thought too! I guess it can work against you the same as it can work for you. That's why I think you probably just have to play with it until you find the most optimal spot for it for your shot specifically.

[@DaysOfNoah-n2p]

He’s also saying that a good way to determine if your string stop needs to be moved closer or further away from your bowstring is if you’re NOT hitting the predetermined targets that you wanted your arrows to go to, so for example, if you planned to hit a 10 yard target and you ended up hitting low, at 5 yards or hit high at 15 yards EVEN THOUGH you wiggled your bow to adjust for that shot lift or shot drop, then that’s a telltale sign that your suppressor needs to be adjusted.

[@DaysOfNoah-n2p]

He’s saying that he’s not grouping properly, because his String Suppressor isn’t configured for optimal bow Forgivability. He’s grouping left and right, because his bowstring is too close to his string suppressor. That proximity is stopping him from being able to put spin into his bow and into his arrows. If the String Suppressor wasn’t so close enough to the Bowstring then he COULD put the spin into the bow and into the arrow and that new configuration would enable his shots to shoot straight and not group left or right.

[@the_sharp_carpenter]

This is very interesting, definitely going to play with that.

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Thanks for watching, Let me know how it work for you

[@pattowle4434]

Interesting. My assumption was the stops were added to diminish after shot string oscillation….leading to a ‘quieter’ bow particularly in hunting situations. I guess I’ll give this a try to see how it differs.

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Yeah, that and it dampens the vibration in your bow hang but like you said I feel like that really only super important for hunting applications.

[@ResistStatism]

I leave about 1/8" space.

[@waynestevenson9613]

This is great info! Credit card thickness away is entirely too close and will damage the stop along with the carbon rod over time, especially the rods that have set screws holding them in place. Move the stop forward incrementally until the string and the stop show minimal wear; which is as you explained about 3/8 to 1/2”. For me I can feel the sweet spot. It’s between dead in the hand and too much vibration! Thanks!

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

That's probably a good way of going about it. With the rod completely off the bow the vibration was pretty heavy and I have to wear an arm guard. With it on the bow and forward about an inch, I feel the vibration a little bit in my grip but not a terrible amount. I think the position of it will change from bow to bow and shooter to shooter.

[@waynestevenson9613]

@@AngusMoss_Archery thanks for all of the solid info.

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

@@waynestevenson9613 Thank you for watching!

[@corneldutoit9489]

What do you mean by Forgiving??

[@zackgrogg6733]

Shout from Bass&Bucks

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

That's my Fam!

[@tonyallen9131]

I wonder if that's why target bows haven't got string stops, there more forgiving with out them?

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Some target bows don't have them but I will say that I'm glad that the TRX Series has them becuase I've also taken the string stop completely off while testing it and it didn't shoot as well as it does when it's an inch or so forward.

[@zachcromer4097]

Are you thinking this for indoors as well?

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

It's gonna to depend on your shot specifically. But I am leaning towards yes. Because the edge of the tin at 55 yd is about an inch and a half away from center and the edge of the 10 at 20 yards is about a half inch from center. So it should do the same thing. But I haven't messed with it for indoors enough yet.

[@mikeguy9668]

I've got a 6" brace height, so I don't believe in forgiveness 😂

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

😂

[@davislong9476]

Interesting going to try It and talk to my archery shop. And call pse and get there view points . Some great comments here too. Angus you just earned yourself a subscriber for this video...I will check about safety In regards to setting up this stop.............

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Thanks for the subscribe and I hope you get it working for you!

[@basandy13]

I am trying this on my TRX40 but it bottoms out into the riser still too close to string at brace. How are you pushing the string stop in farther?

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Honestly, I had to cut mine down to test it properly. I did that knowing that I might have to get another one but it was worth it for me. I only cut an 1/8 inch at a time until I got to about 1 1/4 away from the string and then I started noticing that the bow was getting less forgiving so I stopped cutting it and started working my way back until I found a spot that worked the best for me. If you have a paint pen or something like that you can take the set screws out and make a mark through the set screw holes (Make sure you make the marks with the string stop touching the string obviously) and then as long as you don't cut past those marks you'll be able to push it forward a lot more and still be able to pull it all the way back to where it touches the string. For me, about a half inch to an inch away from the string is the best spot for the string stop.

[@Scowls270]

Probably good input but i can tell I'm not close to good enough to use it. 😂

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Play with it! You might be surprised!

[@Scowls270]

@@AngusMoss_Archery I will. 👍🏻

[@tonyviers-de9qi]

So , are you saying that as you punch the trigger, you try to put a little English on the bow with your bow hand?

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Not quite. I think some "punchers" may do that but I'm talking about when your pin float looks really good and you're going through your execution process and right before/during the release firing The pin moves off target and you try to pull your site picture back into the center (Even if it's after the arrow has fully left the bow).

[@tonyviers-de9qi]

@@AngusMoss_Archery so just your natural movement back to center? That makes sense

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

@@tonyviers-de9qi yes its a kind of "knee jerk" reaction that happens naturally.

[@jeremylandphier692]

I hate string stops ! They always mess with my tunes and when I take them off they tune way better !

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Yeah I tried using my bow without it but the oscillation of the string was too much and it was tearing my arm up.. Plus it shoots a little bit better where its sitting now anyways.

[@lanetaglio]

What were you referring to when you kept saying ENGLISH? TY !

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Hmm, I'm finding it hard to explain that for some reason. It's basically when a shot fires that was less than ideal, you know it's not right, and you try to jerk it back in as it's firing/after it's fired. Some people call it "bow-quan-do" or "onion". If you watch Archery broadcasts enough, you'll eventually see someone do it.

[@ashwilliams5792]

Picture billiards, same thing, but more of a knee-jerk reaction in archery.

[@mikecampbell9863]

👍

[@DaysOfNoah-n2p]

“Englishing” is the art of adjusting your arrows as they’re leaving your arrow rest, by moving your entire bow up or down, or left or right. Englishing is the real life version of “aim assist” in video games; the only difference is YOU, Englishing your shots with your bow/riser are the aim assist.

[@RobertWilliams82-22]

Seeing how long your d-loop is, I understand that it’s to account for the string angle on those longer bows… but the mods on your bows, would this bow have a mod that declares a shorter draw length then one on a hunting set up???

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

My facial structure and arm length make it so that I have to have a longer D-Loop. Basically its so that I can avoid excessive face contact and have proper skeletal alignment at my anchor point. Basically you want you D-Loop to be long enough so that there is a good transfer of load from your arms/shoulder into your back and still give you good clearance from the arrow and your face. D-Loop length and draw length are NOT connected. You want your draw length to be set so that you don't have very much face contact with the string, and little to no contact with the arrow. After you find the draw length that fits you best THEN you should start working on D-Loop length. The purpose of shortening and lengthening your D-Loop is to fine tune your anchor point, skeletal structure, and maximize "motion in direction" Pressure. Motion in direction is your "push/Pull" pressure towards your aiming point (Roughly). The straighter you can make that pressure the better off you will be.. (motion in direction is a more complex topic than how I explained it but that's a basic idea of the concept I think) I'll try to get a video up on how to find your correct draw/loop length in the next couple of months. So: #1: It depends on your body. Most people have too short of a D-Loop. I hate to sound like I'm bashing shops but the reason shops like people to get "that extra half inch of draw length" by putting a "5/8" loop on is because they don't want to spend the time with each individual person to figure out the correct draw length and Loop length for them. It's much easier and time efficient for the shops to convince all of the shooters/hunters that "a 5/8" loop is the industry standard" because they're "doing you a favor" by getting you "that extra 1/2 inch of draw length" when in reality they're just making their job easier by forcing everyone Into the same box. Most people are using hunting bows too, so the axle to axle on those are usually a lot shorter which makes having a shorter D-Loop even worse. #2: When you shorten your d-loop and increase your draw length what you're doing is pulling that string back even tighter into your face and inflicting more face contact with the arrow.. either that or you're just altering the way that you're holding your head or your body/form which isn't good either. A 1/2" of draw length does absolutely nothing for you in the big picture of things.. If you can increase your accuracy by 1/3 (or a 1/4, or a 1/5, etc.) and only lose 5 foot a second, that's awesome if you ask me. #3 that's not to say that all shops suck or that all shops just try to get you out the door or make you feel awkward about not liking something that they set up, but some do.. more do than most think actually.. AND that's not to say that a 5/8" loop isn't right for some people because it absolutely is! But, out of ALL archers, if I had to give a percentage for how many people a 5/8" loop was right for I'd say it's under 10% easily. Anyways, I hope thats helpful in someway. Let me know if I need to clarify any of that or if you have any questions. God bless you and your family! 🙂

[@RobertWilliams82-22]

@@AngusMoss_Archery I was actually asking more about the relation between axle to axle, string angle, and the d loop… and how target archers have longer d-loops on their longer bows then they do on something they will hunt with… I have my draw length at 27.75” on my hunting bow, but I’m looking to get a target bow… and since I’m in an area where not many target set up are to be had, I wanted to get mods that would most likely fit me the best….

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

@@RobertWilliams82-22 oh, my mistake! the reason that more guys will put a shorter loop on hunting bows is because, with the sting angle so steep, that they can't get the string to touch their nose at anchor. (Or at least one of the more practical reasons) That's one of the advantages of the nose button in my opinion. It gives you about an 1/8 inch less string/arrow contact by giving you an extension of the string. I still don't agree with having the string dug super deep into your face at anchor though. Watch Josh Bowmar's video where he puts his bow in the draw board and uses a bow scale to show how pressure on the string (in the let off section of the draw cycle) can influence the string. It's insane I'll leave a link below ⬇️ kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5Cwk6KPecyXqZo With my hunting set ups I will alter my body just a LITTLE bit by tilting my head forward into the string to help with contact issues caused by the sharp angle of the string but I do it protestingly. It would be pretty hard for me to tell you what mods you should get for the longer axle to axle bow because I don't know what your setup is currently like on your shorter bow. If you want you can message me on Instagram with some pictures and I can give you my thoughts. 🙂

[@RobertWilliams82-22]

@@AngusMoss_Archery it’s all good brother, just trying to fine tune things….. but I do acknowledge that I have trouble with face pressure… I’m still trying to learn to anchor properly… I have less then normal feeling in the right side of my face due to a surgery on my neck below my jaw two years ago before I picked up archery…. And I have the nose button

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

@@RobertWilliams82-22 I got you man, you'll get it figured out! There is a way to anything that you set your mind on. If I can help in any way let me know!

[@ryancafin7892]

Did this with my no cam bow felt way better on the shot..

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

My bow felt a little better too. I definitely felt a LITTLE bit more vibration in my grip, but very little.

[@davislong9476]

Angus I noticed your d-loop Its real long most shops set up much less In lenth, or view points or video would be nice as to what works the best for you......

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

Yeah, it's just how my body is made. I need a longer loop. I'll work on getting a video up on how to set up draw/loop lengths. Thanks for watching!

[@JamesBond-oc4gm]

@@AngusMoss_Archery couldn't you use a shorter D-loop and increase draw length 1/2 at least?

[@JamesBond-oc4gm]

@@AngusMoss_Archery that worked out well for me anyway

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

@@JamesBond-oc4gm #1: It depends on your body. Most people have too short of a D-Loop though. I hate to sound like I'm bashing shops but the reason shops like people to get "that extra half inch of draw length" by putting a "5/8" loop on is because they don't want to spend the time with each individual person to figure out the correct draw length and Loop length for them. It's much easier and time efficient for the shops to convince all of the shooters/hunters that "a 5/8" loop is the industry standard" because their doing you you a favor by getting you "that extra 1/2 inch of draw length" when in reality they're just making their job easier by forcing everyone to be exactly the same. Most people are using hunting bows too so the axle to axle on those are usually a lot shorter which makes having a shorter D-Loop even worse. #2: When you shorten your d-loop and increase your draw length what you're doing is pulling that string back even tighter into your face and inflicting more face contact with the arrow.. either that or you're just altering the way you're holding your head or your body/form which isn't good either. A 1/2" of draw length does absolutely nothing for you in the big picture of things. If you can increase your accuracy by a third (or a 1/4, or a 1/5, etc.) and only lose 5 foot a second, that's awesome if you ask me. #3 that's not to say that all shops suck or that all shops just try to get you out the door or make you feel awkward about not liking something that they set up, but some do.. more than most think do, actually.. AND that's not to say that a 5/8" loop isn't right for some people because it absolutely is! But, out of ALL archers, if I had to give a percentage for how many people a 5/8" loop was right for I'd say it's under 10% easily. Anyways, I hope thats helpful in someway. Let me know what if you have any questions! God bless you and your family! 🙂

[@JamesBond-oc4gm]

@@AngusMoss_Archery very well explained, thank you

[@shellaebenkamp9995]

First comment!

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

😆 thanks for watching! 😁

[@WildArcheryBoy]

I stopped watching when I saw the ford t shirt

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

😂

[@overwatch3950]

I simply remove string stops from the bow completely...I find they are noise generators on my setups and really don't have any positive results in my accuracy or shooting experience...

[@AngusMoss_Archery]

I've found that it depends on the bow. Some bows shot better with them, some shoot better with them adjusted, and some shot better without them.