Armor Knight Tier List: Weighed Down to F Tier?

Haven't seen anything this bottom heavy since the archer tier list.
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[@salem1451]

Arden is S tier because he can solo the game, checkmate.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

*Unlimited HP Arden in FEH intensifies.

[@clintwoodlock4974]

How did you solo the game with Arden? My Arden always ends up dying around the end of chapter 5.

[@fishyfinthing8854]

But at the cost that you will probably get E rank in tactic.

[@fishyfinthing8854]

@@clintwoodlock4974 perhaps he will need a good brave weapon and light sword that unlocked critical and all the rings that he needed.

[@furretthefuzzynoodle3896]

Who? I mean there’s Oswin and a ummm.... Yes I know who Arden the beast is

[@xuanathan]

“Knights are really good, if you give them 10 speedwings and hack in 2 boots early game! They’re basically just Marcus, but they don’t *fall off* at the end of the game!”

[@salem1451]

Xuanathan Remember to give them canto in nightmare ;)

[@josephpanno6816]

I know this is ironic, but this still hurts to read.

[@darienmiller1032]

@@salem1451 it sucks that armor knights are so bad, having 1 less movement than every other class in the game is terrible. They're designed to be frontline units, but they'll never be where you need them because of how god damn slow they are. The only way to get any use out of them us to move your squad at the same pace as your 4 move locked armor knights, and that's completely unreasonable.

[@fishyfinthing8854]

@@darienmiller1032 may be they should have ability to switch between deploy mode and undeploy mode. While undeployed, they don't wear armor and let their horse haul it instead so they will have movement slightly faster than foot unit but less than cavalry because they're not riding it. Another idea is to add more enemy reinforcement from behind so that even if they're falling behind, there are still enemy for them to fight.

[@joshuabonesteel2303]

@@fishyfinthing8854 or they could have more defense maps where you actually have to defend. Not ideal though.

[@evansmith2832]

The list was more accurate when the vid started

[@kai_824]

46:32-47:47 Man over a minute gap in the video. Mekkah what's going on

[@Mekkkah]

oops

[@Mekkkah]

FUCK I CHECKED

[@kai_824]

Lol yes! Haha

[@FIFAmusicMAN]

Mekkah I expected better from you

[@neog8029]

@@Mekkkah Yes! Spectacular! You "amaze" us, Mekkah.

[@7of475]

"Barth's head looks like a lego, which doesn't help." Wrong, it does help. Enemies just step all over him in combat. Have you ever stepped on a lego? It hurts.

[@e-tean-son4146]

That's one of the reasons why i like him

[@freetoplayking7362]

Genius

[@FIFAmusicMAN]

Can’t wait for the Myrmidon tier list. Radd for his own R tier

[@kingofthejungle5338]

Radd and Rutger at the top

[@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx]

@@kingofthejungle5338 Master Radd is stronger than he looks!

[@KunaiKrazy]

I second this as they are one of my favorite classes

[@cocomunga]

Rutger is god of FE6, especially when paired with Clarine. They can keep on fighting forever, they will never get hit if close together.

[@Bladerunner5146]

@@cocomunga doing my first fe6 run rn so good to know(I use both units)

[@hawkeye611]

One fun thing about Gatrie in the second half of FE9. He tends to be slow enough that he's doubled by mages, but not when they are wielding siege tomes. Because of this, he can actually cause the AI to rush in and swap away, allowing Volke to steal away valuable meteor, bolting, and blizzard tomes.

[@chiveskirk]

My Gatrie was speed-blessed, so he would kill everything within 2 range.

[@mikesharpmni4264]

@@chiveskirk Gatrie has a 60% speed growth in RD, which is the second highest in the Greil Mercs behind Mia IIRC.

[@chiveskirk]

@@mikesharpmni4264 I'm talking about PoR. He would double everything but myrimdons and peg knights.

[@marioosti892]

The knight ward gives him plus 30% for speed, I've never had his speed stay low before

[@hawkeye611]

@@marioosti892 Even if he has the knight ward for every level before promotion, his average speed is 13 at 20/1. If you give no one else the knight ward, he's still slower than every single other knight ward user other than brom by a couple points. Even units that can struggle with doubling like Ilyana are significantly faster.

[@DaemonicKT]

I feel like a lot of people don't give Effie enough credit. I use her on all my lunatic Conquest runs, and she can quite easily one shot many enemies early game (where you need her the most) thanks to her high strength and personal skill, especially with a Arthur pair up. She can even start to double thanks to her 55% speed growth as a knight. I think she is incredibly invaluable, and would go as far to say she is the best Armour Knight in the series.

[@TheChiefMoron]

Agreed. She is an absolute monster during the early chapters, to the point where even if she dropped off a cliff and was a poor parent (despite her scaling pretty well and giving good stats) I'd still say shes good. She manages to stand our in an early game where you get camilla and can capture nichol, which is really saying something.

[@SJtheMFZB]

Effie's got cute damage for a footie, but we're talking Paladin Jakob, Wyvern Elise, early join Camilla, Xander the Man-der, and solo-the-game Corrin. That's just scratching the surface of Conquest tech. IDK what the hell you'd want an Armor Knight for in that game when absolutely anything else is better.

[@eudesdank697]

Ackshually Meqqah, Amelia is a spotpass unit in Awakening, and shes a Armor Knight, so take that. jk

[@abcdefg98765]

Also Heroes has her as a General

[@TheJayeagle]

One of her cipher cards is an Armor Knight as well I believe.

[@OopsAllStupid]

Don't be silly. Amelia is canonically killed by Ephraim for a few exp

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

@@OopsAllStupid Canon is a zombie in the tower of Valni killing her.

[@paz6304]

@@OopsAllStupid you have to recruit amelia or else, you're going to lose precious speed wings.

[@musaab7260]

I would say if you’re putting in Edelgard, hector could be in this too no?

[@neog8029]

I mean, his promotion gives him weakness to armor-effective weapons and the same movement as Generals, so I'd say yes.

[@rpgrunaway8321]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@unknownstranger6558]

@@neog8029 but hector have 5 movement before promotion and uses axes at beginnig (instead of lances) like axeknight in some thracia format

[@thetaintedbear4557]

@@unknownstranger6558 So... the same situation as Edelgard? Aren't you just helping his case?

[@refly4927]

Héctor SS+

[@michaellove570]

General is the best class and Wendy should be at the top because of her incredible, uncontrollable power!

[@NightOfTheRavens]

Yeah, her superpower of DYING.

[@maltheopia]

If only Wendy could control her hatred for boots, she'd be in S-tier, easily.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

@@maltheopia Get Wendy to 20/20 and S rank the game, a secret ending happens where Guinevere runs off to have an affair with Roy and Wendy is made queen of Bern.

[@cocomunga]

DrewPicklesTheDark I have to try this!

[@ohandthefracking]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark can confirm this ending btw

[@KamelGuru]

Dudue: "I am his majesty's shield!" Me: "Yes you are." *forever put him as Dimitri's guard adjutant for their best-buds bonus of +3 might*

[@dragonknightleader1]

Isn't that the point of a Gold/Silver knight in Shogi?

[@ryangallagher9723]

pitfall

[@YuvonGrohiik]

No Tauroneo hurts my soul. No Wallace hurts Mangs' bald head.

[@0y1on]

Also no Hector rip

[@wolfbear320]

These are generals though

[@ShardsOfStone]

@@wolfbear320 Wallace starts off as an armor knight and in hard he doesn't get to use my knights proof ;) thats on either sain or kent :O

[@fangiscool1]

@@ShardsOfStone hard to say. The main game is Hector and Eliwood mode, and he starts as a general there

[@papita69xxx]

@@fangiscool1 most of this tier list consider the hardest setting in the game as it's base so basically that means no Lyn mode

[@DD151]

FE5 SSS rank playthroughs have been moving towards getting Tanya captured in chapter 3 so that you can get Dagdar back without going to chapter 8x. That frees up the Brave Axe to go to chapter 4. I'd still argue that if you are doing chapter 8x, then Brave Axe should stay on Dagdar. FE12 Draug usually goes cavalier. It's mobile, has solid bases and well rounded growths, and keeps his lance rank. He might go pirate or hunter at first for the extra speed base and growth for the first few levels, but once he can double as cavalier, then that's usually his preferred class.

[@jonahj9519]

Wait, you get Dagdar outside of 8x if Tanya’s captured? When? Just like, at the end of 8?

[@DD151]

@@jonahj9519 Pretty sure he just shows up in your party at the beginning of chapter 9, yeah.

[@blahmaster6k]

Obligatory Wallace should count because he's unpromoted in Lyn mode comment.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

I had an unpromoted Wallace kill Lloyd once in a run I gave the knight crest to Sain.

[@Kyara7]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark How did you give it to Sain, aren't you forced to give it to Wallace

[@shamarai1107]

@@Kyara7 if you play lyns story on hard mode it doesn't force you to use the knight crest

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

@@Kyara7 Playing Lyn's mode on hard removes the tutorial, so you don't have to do what it says.

[@Kyara7]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark Oh, that makes sense. I never bothered to play Lyn hard mode

[@GobaGNon]

Benny is waaay above D tier imo, his defense is quite literally second to none and is capable of tanking any attack and even magic attacks pretty well with his great Hp and middling resistance. His only weakness being speed is rectified by the Wary Fighter skill and movement, while still bad, is easily fixed in Fates using pair up. His personal gives extra hit which is always useful, even at the very endgame when plenty of other personals don’t matter any more. All in all Benny deserves to be at least the top of C tier and I’d argue just behind Effie is where he truly belongs, armor knights are quite good in Fates, especially conquest where they can trivialize chapters that are otherwise hellish like the stairway of hell and the bullshit Kitsune village.

[@April-tg2vl]

Almost all of these units can do the same thing, comparative to their games, if you slow down fast enough to let them chokepoint. Benny is bad because using him at all massively slows down your turncount and efficiency(relevant in Conquest because chapter rewards are nerfed from not being efficient and reinforcements being strong). He is a noobtrap that is used by inexperienced players who are not knowledgeable/skilled enough to play through chapters efficiently, if at all. He's not the worst unit in conquest(that honor goes to mozu) but he's probably bottom 5, only above her, jakob 2, and maybe nyx. Odin can be trained in efficient play from ch9-12 and is not nearly as bad as he is in revelation. He's okay. Peri is a great pairup bot with above average combat. Instapromote(bow knight) laslow is an insanely good midgame unit who scales off into being a ninja killer + rallybot. Charlotte and arthur are pairup bots. Effie doesn't get doubled by everything and provides very useful combat. Selena and Beruka are fliers with decent statlines. Beruka has big doubling problems, but at least she's a wyvern and can abuse hand axes for bonus damage. Etc. Almost everyone is more useful than Benny, even the not so great units.

[@vanjagalovic3621]

@@April-tg2vl Don't forget mediocre child and how his high defense can work against him since enemys will only atrack units in CQ if they can damage them, also while his availability isn't awful, he joins when your team is starting to get strong and a lot of your units have probably built supports

[@OnlineVideoSurfer]

@@April-tg2vl As a wall, you're right Benny is a trap. Maybe can save you in a few maps if you're poorly prepared on Lunatic, but that's a bad way to rank a unit. But he is useful as a dump unit in various maps to use his personal skill. Combined with heartseeker from someone like Leo, he can help with a lot of sketchier evasion bullshit. That's much more useful than endless walling or bait and lure play, which has a cost even without self-imposed challenges. Still on the low end of units, but someone I can always find a use for. I said this to someone else, but I think hit rate gets discounted or overlooked a bit in its utility when people start talking about efficient or LTC runs in Fire Emblem. But I think in practice it's very nice to have, even if it's turning an 80% to a 90% (let alone stacked with other modifiers). (I'll have to try bow knight Laslow at some point by the way. I've always overlooked him because chapter 10 bow knight Selena is wonderful, and still seems much better than Laslow even on his chapter. Not to mention she has more long term use if you continue using her as a flier later).

[@April-tg2vl]

@@OnlineVideoSurfer His personal is good but situational +10 hitrates on enemies and a low mov tank that enemies often ignore due to them doing low damage to him doesn't outstrip most conquest units. Outside of mozu, there isn't a single conquest unit that is actually useless(even jakob 2 is a 0 investment staffer), which is a definite positive to its design. The only map i think he can be especially useful on is kitsune hell with the beast killer(but why not just use wyvern corrin/xander, or effie with the beast killer instead since she is useful for maps besides it) and maybe his join chapter to tank some cavs when the huge reinforcement wave comes in. Bow knight laslow one rounds every ninja in his lunatic join chapter at base with a bronze bow. He's a very useful midgame unit

[@OnlineVideoSurfer]

@@April-tg2vl Yeah, situational, a unit I swap in and out depending on the enemy avoid. I use him as support for fighting Kotoro and Hinoka, and there are other lesser situations where it can turn good hit rates into perfect/near perfect. He's a splash unit, rarely a fighting unit, and I probably would put him in C for that. It's situational, but also very consistent. I really don't use him much for walling on Lunatic, and you're right I'd rather use a Wyvern for Kitsune hell for actual fighting the bulk of them. Still, he (and Leo/Odin/whatever) are useful for their support in killing the initial wave of dodgy foxes. And even when he does fight I still suspect he'd be better at it than Effie. He'll usually have higher defense, and the personal of course will make hitting more reliable. I guess you could use both there! I'd probably have to go through unit by unit to see what units would fall below him, but generally speaking a lot of the lesser units in Conquest are good for a few maps if instant promoted, but drop quickly and are often interchangeable, with some exceptions. Or are growth units like Mozu which can be very powerful but only if you're willing to take the opportunity cost of raising them. Whereas Benny's skill remains useful if situational through most of the game, isn't easily replicated by others, stacks with heartseeker for dealing with the worst dodgy bullshit, and requires little investment. And I it's sometimes easy to overlook the misses you never get, which makes it hard to credit him. It takes some work - he has to get there after all - but a lot like Gareth it's a skill that quietly gets stuff done, but his weaknesses earn him a lot of disdain that I think is unwarrented. Okay. I guess the main thing I wonder is how it compares to promoted Selena. I usually ignore Laslow because I already have her promoted, with a bronze bow (+1) ready. If I ever play again I'll try him. I've always had trouble finding a use for him outside of that weak rally.

[@ieattables]

One thing interesting about Meg is that she suffers a lot more than other characters in the transition from Normal to Hard mode. Obviously everyone is a little less good on Hard, but Meg gets hit really badly. As the first very underlevelled unit to join in FE10, and how the bexp formula works, she would benefit a lot from getting a bunch of bexp. On normal you can give her about a level, on hard you can give her... About 30 exp. So that's a black mark. On Normal her speed and durability at first is just about enough that she doesn't really get doubled in 1-4, and also she can survive a double against Cats there. On hard she does get doubled and just dies. And as time goes on, she constantly avoids doubles on normal and will likely start doubling, while on hard it's more about avoiding doubles constantly. Hard is also just unfriendly to growth units, especially in the Dawn Brigade. Her awful tier 2 speed cap also really stops her doubling in part 3 if trained, while on normal she can do, just about. On hard I'd say she's a clear bottom 3 in RD, ahead of only Lyre and Fiona. On Normal - don't get me wrong, she's still bad, bottom 10 still for sure, but there are many characters I would put below her. A much smaller investment and it starts giving some return much more quickly. Not sure who I would say she rises above exactly, but likely some of the more niche characters like Kysha and Lucia, and lategame filler like Renning, Bastian, Volke and stuff. Anyway just my thoughts. TL;DR: She's right on the cusp to be hit hardest by the transition from Normal to Hard difficulty. So on Normal, she isn't good, but she is way more usable and perhaps more useful than some other bottom and low tier characters.

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

Meg should be used for Alondite memes only

[@jonahj9519]

Hard mode bonus exp is so disheartening. Like, they give you half as much, right? Ok, fine. That’s fair. But they also changed the formula to calculate how much you need to level up so that each point of bexp counts for half as much. So you essentially get 1/4 the bexp you’d get in normal mode. It sucks so much.

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

That and removing the weapon triangle are why I'd rather play a beefed-up Normal mode than Hard mode. Modding Radiant Dawn is actually pretty fun. Meg, Fiona, and Lyre as well as quite a few other units can be incredible if their growths and bases are tweaked. The only challenge is buffing the enemies so that their buffs are warranted.

[@sigurdtheblue]

Bonus EXP definitely should have been talked about in this video....

[@Majima_Nowhere]

I made Amelia a general in my most recent Sacred Stones playthrough... for some reason it's hilarious to have a fast, low def armor knight who's just this dinky little girl under 500 pounds of steel

[@MythrilZenith]

5:40 Generals are also wholly different classes in FE1, being locked to swords and unable to wield lances. Outside of base stats, knights are better than generals. Doga also has 5 move, same as archers. The only 4-move unit is Shooter (2-range locked Ballista). Doga is decent because base 11-12 defense is pretty good, and his speed isn't totally awful, but yeah he gets left behind by everyone else. Still useful early game, though.

[@misterbadguy7325]

Lorenz is actually pretty good in FE1 because his stats are just so preposterous at the point when you get him. (That defense stat, mmm.) Being swordlocked isn't really a problem because swords are by far the best weapons in that game and the weapon triangle isn't a thing. I'd say he's definitely the best of FE1's late prepromotes, bar Gotoh and Boah. His main problem is mostly just that by that point, you're probably warp-abusing, which means his tankiness is kind of irrelevant.

[@MythrilZenith]

@@misterbadguy7325 Fair. WT not existing (and Javelins not being buyable after like chapter 10 or something) makes the super-light Swords better than other weapons, though the option to use a heavy-hitting lance is still nice. And yeah, 16 base defense is pretty good. He can't do much to Camus without getting 1-rounded (but not many units can), but he has good defense, str and HP so he's at least usable into endgame.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

@@misterbadguy7325 Lorenz is good in FE3 since you can kill Camus the turn after you get him, slap the Gradivus and star orb on him, and send him in a cluster of enemies and he will come out level 20 with maxed stats.

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@MythrilZenith 16 base Defense is probably the best in the game, actually. Lorenz is definitely the only character who'll have a chance to cap it out naturally. (Unless you count Bantu and Tiki, who can glitch it.)

[@K1NGR3QU13M]

I forgot about kellam in awakening and I didn't realize I had him until I was about to go fight Grima he has stayed the same level ever since he joined

[@bonjourcoucou5328]

Just playing RP.

[@lance5691]

Probably because you couldn't see him /s

[@CyanEyed07]

Good to know Mekkah finds Gilliam to be more memorable than Athos.

[@paz6304]

Armor knights tier list like: These units are good because they can escape armor knight

[@sigurdtheblue]

The two in A tier are straight armor knights who are just implemented well. Gaiden benefits armor knights a lot. It is easily the best game for them. And Hector should have been in this list and ranked as best.

[@tom_7768]

You're either Dalsin or Dalsout

[@N0T4K0P]

Kellam should be at least top of C tier. He is almost mandatory in the chapters right after he is recruited, especially on hard and lunatic.

[@mobileuser7962]

Agree Kellam is pretty dang useful on some of the really cramped maps. Having someone to be a blockade can be immensely useful imo

[@fakesmile172]

Early promote him to great knight and you have a mobile tank.

[@phantomaxl1207]

I would pair Kellam up with Lon'Qu and he can actually double enemies.

[@DevaPein]

Video starts with every one in f tier * Mekkah " ok were gunna tier all armour knights, no sorry, I have already tiered all the armour knights.. like comment subscribe" video ends * lol

[@OfficialJugg]

Ty so much for featuring my video Mekkah. Really means alot :^)

[@Maxtory9999]

Just saw Oswin on the thumbnail and thought you would do a tier list of Mini-Jeigans. Actually believed the universe exploded for a second. :P

[@hiraeth437]

What about Kjelle? Sully’s daughter in awakening. She starts as a level 10 armor knight and actually gains speed because again, her mother is sully.

[@hansgretl1787]

He also didn't use Benny's kid, who is also an Armor Knight I think.

[@Aurirang]

@@hansgretl1787 I simply can't remember how Benny's kid looks like... Or how he/she is called.

[@hansgretl1787]

@@Aurirang I never got him myself, and I don't even know his name, but I think he's an armor knight as well.

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

@@hansgretl1787 @Monika His name is Ignatius.

[@davidtarnawski9904]

I imagine he stayed away from child units cause their base stats, skills, and growths vary widely depending on who the parent is and that makes it hard to accurately rate them relative to other units.

[@bgalex776]

I feel like armor knights are much more successful when they either are given decent resistance (Benny is a good example) so they can't become worthless in more mixed enemy compositions (and also become a bit more worrisome as enemies) or have decent speed so that even though they won't be doubling often, they won't be doubled so often (think Oswin and Fates' Steady Fighter).

[@vanjagalovic3621]

Benny doesn't have very goid resistance at all, it's just that his res growth is high

[@Timmio.]

A trained oswin has decent to good resistance and enough speed to double a lot (though that's more of a problem of fe7 giving too heavy weapons on fairly slow enemies) His usually capped def, good res and good speed(for an armour) makes him incredible

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

They also do better if the player had access to some sort of movement ability (like swap or warp) or have smaller maps. Half the time the problem isn't even that they are bad in combat, but rather just that by the time they can get close enough to attack, there is nothing left to attack.

[@fangiscool1]

This is obvious. A unit specializing specifically in defense is better when he/she is fast or has high res.

[@Locklen]

With regards to the material needed to repair Amyr for Edelgard Mekkah, if you see "monsters in the desert" as an option for an auxillary battle, know that the worms there drop it as well (desert is the only aux map type where the worm monsters show up)

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

Dedue: “C tier.” Me: Aw c’mon, that’s mean. Edelgard: S Tier. *TRIGGERED*

[@fatcthulhu4904]

Dedue has a bane in flying, edelgard does not. Edelgard also has a decent magic and speed stat and more strength and res than dedue. Dedue has a better def growth but EL is not far behind

[@ResurgentRaven]

@@fatcthulhu4904 However edelgard does have a pretty big problem. For the first half, you are mainly training edelgard for speed rather than defense. When she turns into an Armored Lord, she gains defense but lowers her speed. This ultimately gives you a high attack armored unit with solid hp and charm, but poor stats in everything else. You trained her base form to excel as a speed unit and her defense was average at best. With the armored form, she only gains minor defense boosts and looses out on speed that could prevent doubles. Edelgard can easily be classified as the weakest of the 3 lords, and her only redeemable factor is her weapon. Also, dedue is good at being exactly what he is supposed to be: an armored unit/physical wall. He doesn't need flying to excel. (Frickin wyvern spammers)

[@notfabio9858]

Raven aether7.10 she’s definitely the weakest of the 3 if each of them uses their exclusive class, but I think she’s the best otherwise

[@ResurgentRaven]

@@notfabio9858 To each their own. I'll respect your opinion. I probs just had a worse time with her compared to other armors like gatrie, lukas, and oswin.

[@notfabio9858]

Raven aether7.10 nah I agree with you about her as an armored unit, she wasn’t super tanky but also was no longer fast enough to double (at least for me), and even with her weapon and a March ring I didn’t enjoy using her on my first BE run. I’m really looking forward to using her as a Wyvern when I get around to replaying that route

[@Mboone1994]

Being a giant Sacred Stones fanboy I'm satisfied with Gilliam's placing. General Killiam is probably one of my favorite units actually.

[@rosaparks6479]

I always make him great knight

[@givecamichips]

By this list's Three Houses criteria, Ashe, Ignatz, and Bernadetta would have made the Archer tier list.

[@christophu2504]

... yes. Bernie definitely. Ashe andd Ignatz can argually be theives/assassins, but I feel like they usually fall in archer category.

[@Persoon56]

Well, now we need a Lorenz tier list. Something short, simple and easy to do.

[@alexandrelabrie7790]

I will say one thing about Brom in Radiant Dawn, he's definitely useful in Part 2, where he's the most durable unit you have on several maps. Unfortunately, he's not quite as good as Gatrie or Tauroneo once you get to part 4 and endgame. In Path of Radiance, though, Brom has good utility for helping shove Ike to Astrid on Turn 1 with Mordecai. That's still more useful than units like Lucia.

[@Mekkkah]

RD Brom is only your most durable unit for 1 map - the one with only 2 other units. Nealuchi, Mordecai and Lethe all have several advantages over him when it comes to not just defense but also offense and mobility.

[@alexandrelabrie7790]

@@Mekkkah You're technically right, but they also have several disadvantages, like Lethe and Mordecai having bad transformation gauges, and Nealuchi has bad vision on 2-2 . None of those 3 have 1-2 range, either. Nealuchi can get nearly 1HKO by the bowgun user on 2-2 , not counting the other bow users and the fact that the boss of 2-2 has Elwind. 2-E is also peppered with ranged units and bowgun warriors. The moment that Lethe or Mordecai run out of transformation gauge they're more frail and slow than Brom(and have no offense), and much more likely to be doubled than him. And most of the units on 2-E will double untransformed Mordecai and Lethe.

[@Livingvapour]

what about hector if you are gonna count Edleguard as an armour knight

[@RLACDC2000]

I think edelgard was only in here as special case just so 3H characters could be included.

[@xravenx24fe]

@@RLACDC2000 Yeah he's just appeasing people that want 3H to be included even though it basically throws away archetypes and base classes like Gaiden.

[@Edgeperor]

@@xravenx24fe archetypes are still a thing in Three Houses if you play it like a non-weirdo on hard or normal mode. You can turn Lysithea into a General if you really want to, but if you do, are you really gonna be using her as much as you would use General Dedue? The few examples where you’ll really want to switch to a less canon class is for canto mages, Dedue, Ferdinand, or Edelgard, and all the other viable choices for them still keep most of their archetype. The only reason Three Houses doesn’t have true Christmas Cavaliers or Pegasus Sisters is because Three Houses doesn’t have enough roster room to allow that kind of stuff. Separating those archetypes by house would just be really stupid in every way, and almost no non-LTC players want Pegasus Knights taking up half their house’s roster.

[@carter1780]

@@Edgeperor they do want wyvern knights takingup 2/3 of their house's roster though

[@Edgeperor]

@@carter1780 don’t kid yourself. Just because something is good doesn’t mean it was intended.

[@chillstoneblakeblast3172]

this is the THICCEST tier list of fire Emblem also Benny in D Tier is probably the most controversial placement

[@boredomkiller99]

Agree he is actually really good because armors in generally are really useful on several maps in conquest and just as durability back packs for others when they are not. Benny is actually favorable over Effie in a few spots where you need that overkill defense. Should be at least c if not higher. At the very least he contributed more then everyone else in D.

[@chillstoneblakeblast3172]

@@boredomkiller99 not only because of his tankyness, but because of his personal being a support skill.

[@vanjagalovic3621]

@@boredomkiller99 Isn't it bad to have very high defense in Conquest since enemys don't attack you unless they can do damage to your units?

[@samoscamo1]

It's controversial because it is wrong. To be fair to Mekkah though he didn't really use Benny much and he didn't play on the harder difficulties where durability is actually pretty vital.

[@jackkemp176]

@@vanjagalovic3621 yeah in conquest benny is just worse than Effie but in revelations the opposite is true

[@LordWallace]

Hi! Local Conquest shill here to talk about Effie and Benny a bit. Effie definitely has a lot less hype among active players now than during the early days, but shes still well above the typical armor rabble while not being Gaiden Lukas tier either. Certainly not optimal but that isnt saying much for Conquest if you arent a royal, Corrin, or Jakob. Main things holding Effie back are her base speed of 5 offsetting a stellar speed growth and a terrible Heart Seal reclass into Troubadour. So if one is desperate to get her out of Armor Knight ASAP and unlock her potential her best bets are either a very early promotion (which tbf shes a fine candidate for compared to the other CQ growth units) or to Partner seal into a class, fortunately not too daunting a task with her availability alongside numerous viable earlygame partners like Silas, Corn, and Arthur. Silas in particular is notable for giving her Cavalier/Paladin or giving her access to Cav's skills by leveling GK (both of which are good). Silas can obviously also backpack her around maps early on. Unfortunately, a hypothetical Wyvern Effie isnt possible in Conquest without sacrificing early Jakob and going male Corn to give her the class. It really just isnt a worthwhile trade and this essentially denies Effie her best class in most runs. Overall I'd say you placed her well, most Conquest tier lists have her smack in the middle or just slightly low mid which is easily above average for an armor. In some ways shes the inverse of Oswin in casual play, Oswin peaks pretty much immediately at join and gets progressively less useful from his early game dominance, while Effie has a rougher start but a much higher ceiling that she feasibly reaches due to her combination of raw power, benefiting from her game's design/mechanics, and reclass/promo options. Rev Effie bad though. Benny is essentially Effie without any of the idiosyncrasies that make Effie interesting/viable to use. Hes much more akin to a traditional armor knight than Effie in stats, meaning he lacks Effie's niche-carving firepower and his speed is irreperably fucked. He also comes quite a bit later, in a chapter that isnt very friendly to him and also past Chapter 10, a map which would have been his peak and where both Camilla and Beruka join. Camilla needs no explanation, but Beruka also hopelessly outclasses Benny (and Effie for that matter) as a tank. Benny's heart seal is Fighter which isnt as unusably awful as Effie's but still not a good enough option. May as well just keep C Lances, and because he joins late by Conquest standards he has far less time to go for a Partner Seal with someone, and even then he'd still struggle with speed. He seems made specifically to go General and benefit from Wary Fighter....which....um, yeah. To add further insult to injury, Ch 18's capturable bosses instantly yeet this potential niche too. Contender for worst CQ unit bar Mozu tbh. Idk if hes as bad as Arden, hes probably fine at bottom of D where you put him. Lastly as a quick note, I'd probably place Kellam above Brom at least. Hes serviceable enough like most Awakening units and also benefits from pair up. Makes a fine backpack for Cordelia from my experience. His reclasses are pretty meme tier unfortunately, he should just go GK which fortunately is solid in 3DS. I LIED. ACTUAL LAST NOTE THIS TIME. I'd have mentioned Wyvern Dedue at least a little. Yeah he has flying bane but it's really not a huge deal, not as bad as axe bane for sure, and I mean you just cant go wrong with Wyvern ever in 3H. Idk if I'd have bumped him up based on that since his absence still sucks but yeah if we're counting reclasses Dedue gets this option as well over the peasant non reclassing armors.

[@OnlineVideoSurfer]

You underrate Benny. Having played multiple Conquest Lunatic runs, including no side mission runs while still emphasizing reliability along with speed, Benny is better than D tier. Probably C, where I'd also put Effie. Yes, as a General he's not that great. Some pairup use potentially, and a quick save for ninja cave and foxes if you aren't prepared for them if he's promoted, but that's not really what's important to me. What elevates him instead is his personal skill. Against frustrating evasive bosses (and even some sub-bosses/enemies), it's a really nice boon to just dump him two spaces away and back him with a heartseeker unit like Leo to turn 60-70% dodgy units to near reliable/reliable hits. Hell even pushing 80%s to 90%s is very nice. It's like using Gareth in Radiant Dawn. No investment required, little opportunity cost in terms of other units not fielded, and he's a decent (not perfect, but decent) pairup when his unique skills aren't needed. And since he needs little to no investment, it's easy to swap him in and out map to map. I think hit rates in general gets underrated a bit in their utility, especially when people start theorycrafting their LTC or efficient runs, but I think in practice even good players need to consider them or they'll get pushed into tricky, uncertain situations where there's a good chance they'll lose. Benny does a lot to avoid those situations in an already tricky game, and I always encourage people to try him. He helps a lot.

[@Stachelbeeerchen]

"You are still too slow!"

[@itsallenwow]

-Sonic the Armorknight

[@MrGhosta5]

doesn't mater when you have wary fighter

[@Lh47000]

Awesome list as Always !

[@theidolgrovyle]

Great Knight Effie was my best unit aside from Corrin in conquest. Even her speed stat got up to the 30s along with her strength and defense. Unfortunately there was so many armor and horsepiercing weapons in the late game that I had trouble using her strengths.

[@UlrichUlrichson]

I feel some type of way since I have never seen any of your content before but this popped up in my feed and clicked it the second I saw Oswin from FE7. He is probably my third favorite character from ALL the FE games and, of course, you point out that he was the reason why so many people that started with FE7 like knights and I am obviously one of that group. Good content overall and I will be subscribing now so thank you.

[@karabirb]

For the units that can reclass, I think it’d make more sense to rate them AS armors, not as their best alternative, no? Like, it seems unfair to say Edelgard is the best armor knight because she’s a great Wyvern Lord imo. I still think Edelgard would be pretty high on the list if you only counted her armored appearance since her stats and personal weapon and all that are really good, but still. Just seems odd imo Otherwise, another great tier list :) I’d love to see something more obscure like a thief tier list next

[@l.n.3372]

Edelgard is a weird case because nobody uses her as an emperor class. But if you did, then she's probably still A tier at least. But nobody, not even Mekkah, uses her as one. So her inclusion in this armor tier list is pretty strange. Especially when he didn't include Bernadetta, Ashe or Ignatz in the archer tier list when their canon promotion is sniper.

[@aaronka1285]

@@l.n.3372 For me, it's canon classes or the run is tainted and the save must be purified.

[@l.n.3372]

@@aaronka1285 I've never used wyvern Edelgard but I've also never used armor Edelgard either.

[@FUTBALLZAK]

@@l.n.3372 Even as an armored lord she's still broken and should be S, I gave her boots and the Fetters of Dromi so 7 move and canto, and she can still do her raging storm thing and easily 1 turn a bunch of maps when strided and warped. Nowhere near as broken as Wyvern Edie, but still easily the best armour in the series.

[@l.n.3372]

@@FUTBALLZAK That's a silly argument tho. Yuri's hero's relic is less than a month old. And the boots argument is the same as any traditional ' why waste the boots on armor when it could go to someone else ' from past games. Armor Edelgard is only good for the reasons she's good as infantry. But because Mekkah isn't talking about her pros as an armor, I find it odd that he's ranking her highly as one.

[@davidcampbell621]

Effie is an absolute monster, and basically required for conquest lunatic. Decent bases, high strength, great strength growth 50% spd growth. If you're luck she'll be fast enough to double, if she isnt you can go general to get wary fighter. Because her defense is so important in the early maps she'll naturally be getting plenty of experience too. Ive played conquest lunatic a few times and she's always been an MVP. Benny is interesting as an armor since he actually has good RES

[@coltonmarples4269]

I think Effie is worth using in Conquest and should be rated higher on this list but I wouldn't consider her required for Conquest Lunatic. Silas and Corrin are both better early game tanks than Effie and Camilla shows up so soon stealing the show and hard carries the game.

[@JustAndrewIsFine]

Barth is so bad he has 100% HP growth and can never max it out without stat items.

[@elizatovarpalomo1294]

Thats is ... very sad . I was trying yo use him but he is just terrible

[@acephilosopher5146]

I love Oswin. I am almost done with an FE7 eliwood hard mode iron man, and I lost Lowen and Isadora. Oswin has been a reliable tank and has remained fairly useful throughout the run.

[@avaliantsoul5408]

imo, knghts/generals are super useful if youre not concerned about turn-count. their move isnt that bad, and boots are an option in almost every game. they're also almost impossible to kill in many of the games. the only ones i'd say are terrible is when you get rng-screwed and have low res

[@deadmeme2902]

Waiting for that Camus tier list where you list them based on how hard they are to take down.

[@tiarabite]

This, don't know how badly I needed this till now.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

Most of them are pretty easy since they either sit on a gate/throne, which makes them *tough*, but they are not dangerous, or they move (such as Ishtar) but are not durable at all.

[@rosaparks6479]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark I think they meme emotionally

[@thereallifesaiyan]

Camus himself is probably one of the hardest for me. He isn’t a dumbass like Eldigan and actually knows he isn’t doing the right thing, but no matter what he cannot betray his country when it’s so close to ruin, it’s a surprisingly poignant moment in a game with so little story

[@serpent2776]

@@thereallifesaiyan Eldigan's not stupid, if he goes against Chagall, Augustria will be taken over by Grannvale. To him, better to be ruled by Chagall and have Augustria rather than lose his country to Grannvale.

[@tiarabite]

Used Barth in my latest FE6 Draft HM playthrough where I went Echidna route and Sacae, tried to play semi-efficiently(not LTC strats, but minimizing turtling), used first knight crest on him. Negatives are plentiful and known(and the first coming to mind is how knight crest is heavily contested), so I'll only focus on positives for a change and what I think FE can do to make them more viable based off what I got from this experience. He was useful for me for sending a stray unit to do side objectives, like I sent him to visit bottom left two villages in echidna chapter and that's all he did whole map lol. And also in the Sacae battle of bulgar chapter especially he was decent in distracting the rear end nomads and wyverns and plugging the spot in the broken wall to take hits. With how hard FE6 enemies are, it's also nice I guess to send him in fog of war against a bunch of enemies so that I get a safe enemy phase at the very least. Magic is an issue, but in FE6 at least they are not too plentiful and even then since he takes so few damage from physical damage, I found he was able to take some stray magic hit(s). So yeah, I think to highlight the strengths of armor knights, would be to prioritize getting them to General asap(something like Oswin being lvl 9 at base is good, I'd also like to see a General Jeigan character someday), overwhelming you with enemies from the back to make tanking a strategic necessity. Magic users not being too fast or not mixed in too often. And I guess actually making their high defense a niche to justify sending them to waves of enemies in first time playthroughs instead of it being a thing paladins and draco knights can usually pull off themselves too. And also, though it doesn't make sense from an in-universe standpoint, making them able to actually be rescue dropped would be nice too. I think that'd be ideal as rescue dropping still uses up a turn of the units doing it, so it's not something that completely "fixes" their low movement unique niche with no consequence. In a game where armor knights were buffed, it would be an actual strategic choice to decide to use armor knights in rescue drops versus mounted units just foregoing that and bringing in other units/attacking themselves. Otherwise, it'd be moot.

[@anemone3777]

Alright I will die on this hill, Echoes Forsyth is not bad. He joins only three levels to promotion with decent base stats, very good bulk, good (for Echoes) offensive growths, and his base resistance is higher than Lukas' resistance after promotion, making him actually harder to crack for witches than Lukas is. Yes Lukas will always have the lead levels wise, but it doesn't take much to catch up to usefulness in Echoes. Unlike most of the clowns in E and even D rank Forsyth can consistently do well enough with minimal effort on your part to give him xp (literally take him for one of the obligatory dungeon rides and he'll be fine as far as xp go). He should be about C tier.

[@lazerpants3293]

Yeah, the "witches kill him easy" comment from mekkah is weird when the same thing happens to lukas.

[@anemone3777]

@@lazerpants3293 lukas does have an hp lead from becoming a knight first, but there aren't really any witches to be afraid of before Forsyth can promote anyway unless you purposefully avoid using him.

[@Arawnnc]

@@lazerpants3293 The witches kill everyone. I remember in my underlevelled playthrough there would be a witch killing somone every turn. So therefor Forsyth is good because he is forsyth

[@acekun6493]

Ever since I started playing my first FE I never really used any armor knights at all, just way too low movement to keep up with the rest and so they get underleveled rather fast. I think Echoes/Gaiden was the first game I actually used them + now with Dedue in BL since he is actually insane defense wise and with his wait bonus he makes the first 6 or so maps on Maddening way more easy.

[@avaliantsoul5408]

honestly, im biased towards armor knights because FE7 was my first game, and Oswin is amazing. not to mention, my first time beating the game relied HEAVILY on Oswin tanking literally everything (i also was blessed by rnggesus, and he capped every stat except res lol). now, even tho i dont need them to beat the games, i just like using them because i like their designs/animations

[@SharurFoF]

The progression with Brom/Gatrie is: End of Ch.7: Gatrie dips Ch. 11: Brom joins (Port Toha/Black Knight chapter) Ch. 12: First boat map (against the crows) Ch. 13: Second boat map (Gatrie rejoins) So Brom has all of 2 maps where he's around and Gatrie isn't.

[@SharurFoF]

Oh and while Brom is deployable-ish in Ch 11 because you get a lot of deployment slots (though there are enough better units that he doesn't merit one), he's really not deployable in Ch 12, which has not only tight deployment slots, but also very few enemies, such that you really want to make sure your best characters are getting the kills.

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

Not to mention that Gatrie actually starts in a useful spot in chapter 13, whereas Brom has to walk there.

[@Neefew]

Wendy in W tier

[@MetaDash]

Such an interesting situation because armored knights always have a bad hand. I appreciate attempts to TRY to make them a little more viable (like Fates giving them Wary Fighter). Kid me loved Oswin because he seemed so good.

[@avaliantsoul5408]

just give Oswin the boots ;) ngl, still love Oswin, but then again, I haven't truly enjoyed FE since the GBA days.

[@davidtarnawski9904]

Oswin is great but just like every other armor knight he's really kneecapped by his low mobility. my playstyle personally is very turtle-y tho so I got a lot of mileage out of him

[@kaelanmcalpine2011]

@@davidtarnawski9904 Seems to be how I play Binding Blade for the most part, unless I otherwise can't (Chapters 8 and 11A being good exceptions from what I've got done so far). Everything else though I just play like Leeroy Jenkins.

[@valtinryu8147]

Brom is essentially a pre-substitute for Gatrie. You get him before the Gatrie re-recruitment chapter so that a new player who would have wanted to use Gatrie doesn't get too punished if he/she didn't know how to re-recruit him.

[@wJermell0]

Benny is basically Effie but he arrives later and trades her ridiculous strength for more def and hp. He basically belongs a couple spots below her.

[@rubyro2452]

Kellum is S rank because he is my Awakening husbando. I see you and i love you.

[@Maid_of_Spiders]

Great teir list but I just wanted to comment on your background music choices. They are fantastic.

[@BoomerangFlash]

Dedue feels a little underrated - he does leave for a bit, but he does well because he has really easy access to Vengeance, one of the best combat arts in the game, at C+ Lances (with which he has a boon), letting him be relevant even after his absence. His high HP base/growth ensures it'll do a lot of damage, and it's easy to set it up with stuff like guard adjutants, relic HP sapping, status effects, etc.

[@earletchel4611]

"I love using bad units" -Mekkah 2020

[@SharurFoF]

You should do an aggregate tier list when you're done with all of these where you bring them all together into a master list, and only discuss people you want to move from their initial position when you do it.

[@maltheopia]

Mekkah is still giving Wendy shit for causing the death of 6 boots with her low accuracy. I love it.

[@andresfgp13]

effie, benny and oswin are my favorite knights, normally all the others are ironically too vulnerable or hard to train.

[@loganrehbein7610]

Effie is criminally underrated almost always one of my best units.

[@ratmandraws]

Benny basically soloed my conquest run, at armor knight he can take all the hits and he can hold all the choke-points with his heavy defense, protecting the frail ranged units while they kill from behind him, and once he's a general and he can use an axe, HO BOI. he's the only axe boi in that game who could hit anything with his high skill stat and personal skill causing -10 avo to close foes, I gave him Killer axe and he crit/pavis almost every turn. I always attached him to a horse unit to get him to the front lines. Plus he's one of the few characters in Conquest who isn't a murderous psychopath, he's basically a big ol' cinnamon roll. Loved him in Revelations too, wish more people gave him a chance.

[@Crobat-queen]

I'd be interested in seeing the engage characters (Louie) in this tier. (This was before engage, I know.) Louie was one of my most used units, since you can negate one of the main drawbacks to armored units (lack of movement) with Sigurd. I got him up to a 70+% crit rate with a forged killer axe, and he was just absolutely absurd, honestly.

[@serpent2776]

Louis's probably A tier, seems pretty similar to Oswin to me. It kind of sucks that he loses Sigurd for a while. I never classed him out of great knight, and on hard mode, I found he never doubles like that. Not sure if he has a path where he can reliably double.

[@kyraevermoon5544]

You should do the other cavaliers! Like Lowen, Treck, Noah, Franz, Makalov, Astrid. The cavaliers that don't follow the christmas knight archetype!

[@thereallifesaiyan]

Treck is top 1.

[@CarbonMalite]

I think Fates armor knights are must have units imo. Bennie takes no physical damage even in the endgame of Lunatic and has decent resistance while Effie is one of the few units who can one-hit kill in Conquest. They also have the option to promote/reclass to great knights (having wary fighter and Luna is broken on a tank)

[@vanjagalovic3621]

Benny does not have a decent resistance base, he only has a decent growth, which means he'll still get slaughtered by mages until he gains a couple of levels (and even then you need to get lucky), also Conquest is the worst game to have high defense in since enemys only atrack units if they can do damage to them. I agree that Effie is pretty good

[@CarbonMalite]

@@vanjagalovic3621 10 base, 45% Res growths for an armor isn't horrible, it's just he gets doubled until wary fighter (which is at max 10 levels away, min. 5). He gets +2 res on promotion as well, so you'll have a general with at least 15-20 res depending on your luck as a lvl 5 general. That's pretty decent for a unit that doesn't get doubled Hard/lunatic enemies rarely do 0 damage unless you use stat modifiers or pair up. Even if you take 0, dagger debuffs and units with seal defense can easily fix that. Ninja AI attack regardless because of poison strike iirc, I could be wrong about that. Blessed lance also gives debuffs to defense, so you'll always have a way to prevent this

[@Testbug000]

It would be a massive (I imagine) increase in editing time, but putting base+growths might make sense in some of these

[@peytonweber76]

I thought dedue was useful in blue lions maddening but I made him a wyvern so that might make him seem better. Half my units were flyers though so it’s not like he was the only one gaining from flyers being great. In part two though he one shot almost everything with monster breaker and silver axe+. Anything that didn’t one shot was killed with the brave axe. He was also important for tanking the first death knight encounter so I could make Felix a dark mage.

[@SharurFoF]

I don't think you need to deploy Meg to block ledges in 3-13, you can fill your deployment slots without her just fine. That being said, she does have shove utility in 1-4, 1-5, and 1-6, which is in practice more use than a lot of later joining bad characters get. It's only because you don't have a larger roster, but hey.

[@SharurFoF]

Double checked and I'm wrong - apparently you have exactly 13 deployment slots and 13 units in 3-13. How thematic. I don't really see the need to use Meg even so, but there seems to be no opportunity cost to doing so. What a good unit!

[@FoxGoddess]

When I first played Shadow Dragon I never realized you could reclass, so my Draug became a general, and was actually pretty good, well considering I lost like half my units to what could be classified as "An action of complete and utter stupidity of the highest order". I guess when the best of the best are gone you fulfill whatever role is given to you, in the hope that you don't die as well. Still don't know how I kept Marth alive.

[@MrEntinen]

People call meg fast? She has tier 2 speed cap of 22. She is too slow to double at capped speed

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

To the one commenter I can't seem to find: "You know, I'm just gonna agree with you just so I can stop talking...even if you're not."

[@busbee247]

Gonna make a case for kellam here, I know you dont really know much about him but I would put near Gatrie, maybe a bit lower he has good early game utility and grants a bunch of str and def as a pair up

[@eevee1583]

Who?

[@falcon219]

I see an empty space there, near Elfie, over there

[@bobbyasaka]

Mishelan should be S tier because he has the smuggest fricking mug out of all of them.

[@Yarharsuperpirate]

Benny has one big factor going for him in conquest. His join level. He benefits a crazy amount from an instant promotion into general. Once he picks up wary fighter at level 5 general he is surprisingly good for a defensive unit. My typical path with him in conquest is promote instantly, get wary fighter then reclass to GK right away. That way it fixes the classes 2 main issues. Speed and mobility.

[@silver-mg8gd]

I feel like Oswin has part of jagen in him for Hector, since he can promote earlygame.

[@PocketPepsi]

Unpopular opinion: Bors is the most broken character in FE6

[@neog8029]

General triangle attack best triangle attack.

[@juicedkpps]

Not an opinion. A fact.

[@misterbadguy7325]

I would agree. Because "good" and "broken" aren't technically the same thing.

[@Amazo1000000]

I haven’t played fe11 or 12 a whole lot, so i’m not sure how Kellam compares to units like Draug and Roger, but I think he deserves high c tier, at least. He’s about as useful early game as units like Gilliam and Great Knights have basically as much move as Paladins, so he stays useful late game. He’s not by any means your best unit, but he’s still decent and doesn’t need that much work to use, especially pairing him up with one of your cavaliers or fliers.

[@OnlineVideoSurfer]

Okay, here's an unpopular opinion for you Mekkah! Benny > Effie. Granted it's not that big a gap. Effie is good at choking the points on chapters 7 and 10 on Lunatic, and has uses on 9, 11 and 12, particularly if you go early promotion. Her role in chapter 7 especially is hard to replicate, and is really the only reason she's competitive with him. But otherwise she should be dumped quickly. She's not *quite* defensive enough, and certainly not *quite* fast to use either defensively or offensively after that. Whereas Benny's higher defense and resistance is a straight improvement on her if you want an armor (say for fox hunt or choking your way through ninja cave, slow but always an option in a pinch, just to prove I'm not limiting myself to faster play). And, far more important, that personal skill - especially when combined with heartseeker - is very useful for some nasty evasive end map bosses that could either become dangerous or a dodgy slog to fight. It is easier and more impactful than anything Gareth does in FE12, and I actually agree with your video on Gareth. And, of course, Effie is best used in maps where she's basically required, whereas Benny is a meaningful choice, something I do hold against her a bit. Not that either are truly high tier units, but Effie has the Oswin problem. Great for beginners, and useful in narrow cases, but a crutch that makes your game harder if used beyond the early maps where they're forced to join. Whereas Benny, while not a great combat unit, has unique utility for the rest of the game, and is the better defensive unit if you need it. Both should probably be C tier, with Benny taking the higher position. Edit: And of course if Revelations counts, Benny is basically better in every way. But I don't know if Revelations should count for anything...

[@bigtimetimmyjim6486]

Oswin reminds me of Gatrie in FE10 and are two of the best-designed armor knights/generals in the series. Sadly, the only way to make the class decent in spite of it low movement is to completely overload them with stats, including decent speed.

[@MrLinkkid]

Lukas and Forsyth have been pretty beastly in my playthroughs of echoes.

[@infinitepasta]

I came here because i have one chapter in conquest left and benny was damn near essential in my hard mode playthrough. He isn't that good when you get him, but he comes at a decent level and afterwards he gets wary fighter. His move doesnt bother me that much bc i can pair up to get him further ahead and his defence is so high that ninjas aren't THAT problematic, they still are, but he can tank hordes of enemies whilst paired up and other units can mop up the remaining enemies. Plus his res is pretty decent for me, so yeah, benny is at least effie tier, she ended up stronger for me, but not as tanky.

[@madwaltz9812]

I think the Fates armors are both pretty good, at least in Conquest (never played the other Fates games). I think high B tier for Effie and high C tier for Benny is fair. Fates' mechanics are kinder to armors than most other FE games in a few ways. High strength characters make really effective partners for dual strikes, and their low speed doesn't hurt them in this context. This makes Effie one of the best dual strike partners in the game, second only to some S tier units like Camilla and maybe Xander or Corrin. Pairing up Effie with mounted unit for movement, putting her in the middle of a blob of enemy units , then using the spaces adjacent to her to activate dual strikes to eliminate all the enemy units on player phase can be a really effective strategy, even on Lunatic. Typically you use Camilla to do that, but having multiple units that can do it is useful, and towards the end of the game Effie usually does higher damage than Camilla. Javelins also can't ever double in Conquest, so armor knights are usually the best users of them, and they do pretty well against the billions of Ninjas the game throws at you. I'm not terribly familiar with Awakening, but I also think Kellam is probably better than you are giving him credit for. Even if he's never the lead unit, I'm pretty sure he's a very good pair-up bot.

[@majikalmcmuffin6258]

Lukas with hexlock shield is pretty much invincible

[@starseeker3002]

I think conquest effie should be s tier because she joins super early on and most conquest maps are relatively small (except for the eternal stairwell, the sakura map, and the takumi map, the rainbow sage) so her low move isnt really a problem. Also I've done a couple playthroughs and shes always ended up being as good as the nohr royals by the end

[@josedrodriguezpina2527]

I dislike the disconnect between the criteria of including the 3H characters in this list and taking the units as a whole into account, regardless of how much I agree with the rating of these units on a vacuum.

[@Mekkkah]

I can't just ignore reclassing, it's too big of a factor in these games.

[@josedrodriguezpina2527]

@@Mekkkah I agree with that 100%, but if the main takeaway is to not have them as armored knights, and especially with 3H where neither Edelgard nor Dedue have to spend a single moment as an armored knight (unlike any of the other characters that have the ability to reclass); I would rather not have them be included. Honestly, this is just a gripe of mine.

[@Bot-77385]

Jose D Rodriguez Pina yeah I’m inclined to agree with you, if this is an armor knight tierlist, they should be assumed as armor knights. It’s like saying the best armor knight is when you don’t have them as armor knight, which is obvious, but it’s unfair to rate a unit on their ability to reclass, when not all of them can reclass.

[@Anon-yz1xr]

The hammer spam conincides with armor knight heavy chapters, they exist to give you spare hammers from capture.

[@LeDracodon]

For the Fates Armor knight, I'd put Effie B tier or high C because she is pretty essential in early game, she is your only tanky unit for at least 3 or 4 chapters and one of the most powerful but mid games she is kind of at the same level as most of the cast except for resistance and their is a lot of magic users combined with ninjas that will make her just as strong as wet paper. I'd put Benny as a strong B tier, high def and mid/high res makes him pretty durable, when paired with Beruka, it makes a good retaliation unit and gives access to a very strong Ignatus. Of course all of this is to put in relation with Conquest, not Revelation.

[@MitoRequiem]

It's been awhile since I played Fates like I played it for an entire month the JP release dropped and then played it for about a week when US dropped. in my Conquest playthroughs I found Effie to be pretty solid especially when paired with Arthur, I woulda personally put her in A but maybe strats are different compared to release so it's hard to say. You're correct of course in saying that for speed she's bad but not sure if that's what your tier list is about or else all these would be e cept Edelgard I'd imagine lmao

[@joshuabonesteel2303]

I believe the thing that kills knights the most is the fact that when they promote they are almost impossible to transport. I see where IS is coming from, but to me that took a unit that could have been really useful and made them unplayable unless you like turtling alot.

[@dylanwilliams4302]

Mercs or Myrmidons tier list next :D

[@lumineinfinitussilverkagat8094]

I haven't finished Conquest Lunatic yet but Benny does join at level 15 and can do some work if you promote him to Great Knight right away in the chapter he joins and you pair him with Charlotte but I ended up dropping him after the ninja hell of Ch.17. Otherwise you were pretty accurate in him being a Def pair up.

[@g.n.s.153]

Alright Imma try to defend 2 of my boys. (Mostly just saying why I like them as units) I find that Bors general statline with his good bulk and high Luck is pretty great to counter those annoying Killer Lance Wyvern Riders of the late game. FE6 is very harsh on armor knights but I do think he's at least tier above Wendy and Barth. There's a also a few chapters where there's some decent chokepoints to use (Battle in Bulgar for example). Gilliam imo, as a lot going for him because of how SS works. The maps are generally smaller and there's really only one chapter where magic users are a problem so 2 major weaknesses of the class don't impact him as much. Great Knight is nice to get through the story while General really great promotion bonuses and high caps are valuable for the postgame. Also his speed late game I've always found it really good because of how slow enemies are, the only things he couldn't double were the wolves and the very few Swordmasters.

[@81nauj]

I remember Bennie being one of my best units on lunatic. Seeing him down feels weird

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

When I trained Wendy I just gave her a steel lance and brought her, Bors, and Barth to 8x and had her triangle attack (100% hit, 100% crit) everything for easy level ups, the 8x enemies are really weak (exception with the boss who is OP for the level you fight him). Rest of the game she could hold her own. If you don't mind taking 8x slow she's actually not hard to train at all. After that her flaws come down to the general class itself, shitty movement and a low speed cap (22 for her if I recall). She is exponentially easier to train than Sofia. Not saying she should be top tier or even be used in a normal run. But if you want to do something interesting, she isn't hard to train using the triangle attack method.

[@SuperZez]

I've been struggling to think about how to make knights good in the fan-game I'm working on. My plan largely revolves around completely reworking the way the game works to give knights jobs their movement wouldn't stop them from being good at, and also make them _better_ than cavalry in terms of weapon access, not worse. Also, getting rid of their slayer weakness, because it's frankly ridiculous that they even have one.

[@CHR1SZ7]

Maybe there’s some map design/general game design points to work with here? Knights work better on small maps, and can easily be warped into packs of physical enemies, so maybe contriving situations where you’d want to do that could work? You could also experiment with weird deployment zones (think Sands of Time from fe7) where you can deploy a few units very deep into the map to circumvent their movement problems

[@Ultinarok47]

I'll go to bat for Benny here. He's actually a fairly solid unit in both Conquest and Revelation if you're playing slowly. He's terrible for efficiency because he doesn't double ever and sometimes takes multiple rounds to kill a target as a result. But in slow play, Benny is a fortress in a sea of tissue paper. He has the highest defense in the game by far, even trumping Xander, while also having some of the highest HP and, believe it or not, great Res as well. He will never one round anything, but he is one of the most reliable units you can use. High defenses and Wary Fighter allow him to hold the line better than almost any other unit in both routes he's on. His movement issues are easily patched by high movement pair-up, and units like Beruka pair really well with him in terms of movement and bonuses. He joins at lv15 with high enough bases to be able to instantly promote, and can go General right away to put him within sight of Wary Fighter. With a beast killer and a bulky pair-up, Benny an actually solo the kitsune map in Conquest that gives people so much hell. He is one of the few units in Rev that can hold the front on those god forsaken elevator maps where you get jumped by 10 strong enemies, especially if he's holding a Guard Naginata. Other than his garbage speed, he has some of the best growths in Fates, with every other stat having a growth between 45 and 75%. And his speed actually doesn't hurt him much because, again, Wary Fighter. He can survive just fine until lv5 when he gets it too. Enemies just hit so hard in Fates and units have unreliable avoid and crap HP, and this makes high defense units much appreciated. I believe Benny deserves a solid high-C tier, only really let down by his availability and the fact that he only gets to shine in slow play. But much of what you said about Oswin applies to him as well.

[@puff3890]

Damn your warp 1 turn conquer is goodshit man