Faith is Fooling Yourself

[@daneflynn4979]

I near laughed my arse off the other day I saw a book titled “The fundamental falsehoods of Aron Ra”. You’ve finally pissed them off sufficiently brother. Keep rocking it mate.

[@estinsidebottom]

He Better Clap Back With "The Fundamental Falsehoods Of The Fundamental Falsehoods Of Aron Ra".

[@idealthinker5435]

You know you are an influential person when it's not you making books about yourself but others.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@estinsidebottom , Or... "How Creationists Are Spreading Falsehoods Once More... By Repeating all of Their Falsehoods."

[@estinsidebottom]

@@aralornwolf3140 Much More Accurate Title. Thank You For That.

[@paulmatosan7368]

@Tyler B #2 What are you talking about? What logic?

[@claudehall7889]

Speaking as a former Baptist believer Aron is 100 percent right on every point. At one time every statement made here described me and every member of every church I attended.

[@ahumbledelite4745]

You haven't met me

[@proud2bpagan]

Same here, dude. Hey,do you know how you can know a SB minister has at least 30 mins of sermon left in him? he shuts his Bible,and says "This and I'll close".

[@takoja507]

@@ahumbledelite4745 Can you explain what does your comment even means to Claude's comment "Speaking as a former Baptist believer Aron is 100 percent right on every point. At one time every statement made here described me and every member of every church I attended.", this is obviously only speaking from his own point of view. So why would you comment "You haven't met me"? I don't understand that.

[@zakethekid1333]

@@proud2bpagan you right tho

[@dickjohnson4671]

@@takoja507 Brandon is going to attempt the Scotsman fallacy

[@BeachsideHank]

“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” ― Soren Kierkegaard

[@disposablehero6056]

Truth doesn't require belief.

[@elimartin4107]

Man you just described people who refuse to believe in the truth of God.

[@TheBarser]

@@elimartin4107 I was thinking about evolution. A thing that is without a doubt a truth of life, but the abrahamic believes won't accept it to be truth because it goes against the creation of man from God

[@elimartin4107]

@@TheBarser There is also no Biblical proof that it exists. If Evolution is true, why are there still lesser species on earth?

[@TheBarser]

@@elimartin4107 because you don't understand how evolution works.

[@markdichter]

Faith is "wishful thinking."

[@MarcLombart]

No, faith is being intellectually lazy. Instead of thinking for yourself, you let your faith do the thinking.

[@brianstrutter1501]

Faith to me is eliminating self responsibility. Since there is their god there must also be mr evil, here satan aka the devil. And when they sin they can claim "the devil made me do it". Humans just don't want to accept any responsibility for their own actions. Always pointing a finger at someone else to blame. It's a damn shame

[@cm28love_peace7]

And so is prayer

[@alexispizarro6411]

@@brianstrutter1501I disagree. Believers don't really say "Devil made me do it". Faith is more of a coping mechanism for mortality and lack of purpose.

[@Obligate.Carnivore]

@@alexispizarro6411no not anymore, but it is why satan was invented! The devil made me do it!!

[@Gandalf3600]

Bram Stokers Dracula makes a better point for vampires existing than the Bible does for God existing... Way fewer internal contradictions

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

And any one of Sir Terry Pratchett books will give you a better source for morality than the bible.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

checkmate

[@godlessblessings7020]

AND I *have* faith that THEY *"R"* real.

[@Dan_C604]

I am always mesmerized by Aron amazing communication skills and very intelligent content. He is just awesome. Another great monologue!

[@Comuniity_]

Mans is a walking talking encyclopedia

[@thomasrevere1728]

This is such perfect timing. I just got done having a conversation with my mom, who doesn't care too much about epistemology and thinks that faith is how you come to truth. It's embarrassing.

[@charmxsbeanie4726]

Hope you can get your mom out of her indoctrination Good luck👍

[@thomasrevere1728]

@@EternalGaze8 Thank you for that. She's one of those people that believes almost every conspiracy theory. She's a Christian, flat Earther, anti vaxx, anti mask...all that.

[@charmxsbeanie4726]

@@thomasrevere1728 oh geez

[@SamaelTKN]

@@thomasrevere1728 Oh good grief... Good luck with that, man. Just be patient and educate, anyone can be taught about the truth of a situation, but it's up to them to accept science isn't some big, all-country conspiracy.

[@shanestrickland8481]

@@thomasrevere1728 I was in that boat for a while. So you may could still reach your mom but my family seems to not even want to budge. So I understand the struggle you are going through.

[@gerryhanly3194]

At a late stage in my life discovering people like Aron Ra, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens has changed my outlook on life completely.

[@pup1008]

Checkout episodes by the AXP, I think Aron has been on a couple of episodes. 👍

[@mikethetooth]

"Faith is fooling yourself" how many different ways do you think you've said that over the years? I love your channel Aron. You rock!

[@itsmeekers]

Sorry Mike didn't mean to bump you Buddy.

[@godistruth3411]

There are in the world today many who close their eyes to the evidences that Christ has given to warn men of His coming. They seek to quiet all apprehension, while at the same time the signs of the end are rapidly fulfilling, and the world is hastening to the time when the Son of man shall be revealed in the clouds of heaven. Paul teaches that it is sinful to be indifferent to the signs which are to precede the second coming of Christ. Those guilty of this neglect he calls children of the night and of darkness.

[@mastegoh7139]

@@godistruth3411 you mean war, disease, deception, disasters, death? Those signs? The signs that have existed before people have existed? The apocalypse is sure taking sweet time to begin.

[@paulfortney1677]

@@godistruth3411 there are many in the world today who close their eyes to the evidence of the great Flying Spaghetti Monster. I hope one day you realize that the FSM is the true creator and you leave your false idol. May his noodly appendages touch your heart. R’amen

[@ucantstoptheflopp4387]

@@godistruth3411 why do i have to listen them?

[@stevenhogenson4880]

I never tire of hearing Aron dismantle the whole faith fallacy. Never gets old.

[@skywatcher4076]

Aron I'm a disability pensioner. Wish I could afford to support you. I was always atheist as my father was Your talking about religion and evolution gives me an education on both subjects so I can intelligently argue against faith and new earth creationists. I thank you very much for educating me. Cheers sky

[@skywatcher4076]

@Yami Marik faith is believing something without any evidence in other words it's make believe.

[@spider-man9118]

ayo we have varoius types of evidence for biblical events, if you're interested

[@raptorcrasherinc.9823]

Keep watching the videos. He gets ad revenue from that. And liking and commenting helps promote the video.

[@themanifestmage]

@@spider-man9118What evidence is there that backs the supernatural claims of the Bible?

[@MikeJw-je4xk]

"Scriptures are trying to fool you. That is what religion is all about, and faith is fooling yourself" -Aron Ra

[@bebebj137]

The fool says in his heart there is no God.

[@poozer1986]

@@bebebj137 the fool says there is a god, with zero evidence or proof

[@cindychristman8708]

@@bebebj137 If a fool can figure it out, what's your problem?

[@kiambraleflore7537]

Aron Ra is still hitting hard all of these years later.

[@reeseexplains8935]

Agreed

[@owenbenjewmansucksvoxoff6263]

He is a pile of of lazy left eyes!

[@kiambraleflore7537]

@@raysalmon6566 That's all you wanted to say, love?

[@kiambraleflore7537]

@@raysalmon6566 I mean, I don't have any dogma.

[@kiambraleflore7537]

@@raysalmon6566 You have religion and atheism mixed up.

[@DarkRanger1975]

A nice dose of logic and reason thanks Aron.

[@margaretbarrett6087]

David Griffin Unfortunately, logic and reason are alien concepts among the god squad !

[@DarkRanger1975]

@@margaretbarrett6087 yeah I had someone tell me that logic is the tool of the devil.

[@adamwright7954]

William lane Craig helped me leave christianity. When I decided I need to dive deep into apologetics in order to try and prove my faith(which Paul says to do in one of his epistles), and realized that Craig was the best christians had, I knew something was up.

[@jmaniak1]

I had was already long gone from faith but hearing guys like Craig, Hovind, Comfort and Sye Ten ensured I was never going back. Go to heaven for the climate. Go to hell for the company. Mark Twain

[@mafismathis8012]

@i o you are smart

[@robinharwood5044]

I think that Alvin Plantinga and Richard Swinburne are both better than Craig. Still haven't convinced me, though.

[@robinharwood5044]

@i o You are confusing faith with justified belief. And I have neither faith nor j belief that my comments will be read. I'm always surprised when I get a reply.

[@mafismathis8012]

​@@robinharwood5044 because you dont get many replies... "Apostle Thomas demanded. “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”(John 20:25) Jesus answered. “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”(John 20:27) this should be interesting, at least I would suggest you join gab for conversations but the site is a little unstable lately due to DDoS attacks

[@PolyQuasi]

Love you brother. I know this is two years out, but enjoy all of your work. Keep on rockin in the semi free world

[@alexdevlin4431]

Thank you Aron for helping me out of religion, I wasn't extremely religious, but did question it form time to time. You and Matt Dillahunty were very helpful by explaining the problems with religion, and also making sure that people could check your information. Thank you for your help, and service to education in this country. If you ever need anything, and you're in the San Francisco area, I'd be happy to oblige, for an autograph :)

[@MilesfromNowhere21]

I have not found a religion yet that is not synonymous with "Hoax"

[@WilbertLek]

@Tyler B #2 Grow up, child.

[@ramakrishnakamathsuresh1076]

@Tyler B #2 Atheism is the act of withholding belief in a God in the absence of evidence. It's NOT a religion.

[@cecilbrisley5185]

@Tyler B #2 Oh boy. The atheism is a religion angle. You really need to listen to Aron Ra. Then you might learn just how stupid this old tactic is. Do you ignore, avoid or just selectively "forget" information that does not fit your belief or do you just have the short term memory of a goldfish?

[@MarcLombart]

@The Reverend Braindead you just taught me a new word, "apposite" thank you.

[@cephalonblue5991]

@there is someone who descended what do you mean by competing? Why does atheism need to compete with religions?

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

A very wise woman once said: “You start believing in spirits and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in demons and before you know where you are you're believing in gods and then you're in trouble and even if all them things exist it's no call to go round believing in them it will only encourages them” Granny Weatherwax

[@anarki4717]

A like for you for excellent taste in books

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

@F K DRINK Feck

[@Luubelaar]

I commend you on your excellent taste in books.

[@alexmorgan2148]

@Yami Marik like who?

[@alexmorgan2148]

@Yami Marik ok.... Is that supposed to scare me?

[@natanunorthodox]

"Any being worthy of worship, would not want to be worshipped." When you said that, that hit me so hard, because I would never want to be worshipped, just taken as I am. I know you don't know me from a can of paint, but I would really like to be involved with what you do, if you are looking for other debaters or logical thinkers and doers. My name is Nathan. I am an activist, a visionary, a dreamer and above all, a realist. I don't have a big channel or a huge following, which number don't matter to me, but I can provide many different ingredients to the sauce pan of life and why we are the way we are. It's something I love doing, stirring things up and making people think. You know where to find me if you're looking for something new. It's nice to meet you brother. I've listened to you before, but I have been going through my own kind of shedding the old snakeskin myself and feel like I have something to give to others, it's what my name means. It would be awesome to hear from you, but if not, take care, and I'll be watching your videos. Even through great calamity, agape, and I don't mean that in some religious sense. I say it because I am both sides of the same coin. I understand contradiction more than most people, because I study it and resonate on it every day, all the time. I am the neutral middleman between both sides, and I understand them both, because I lived them both. Until then, stay up, stay lowly...SBN RESONATE

[@craig3226]

Foundation Falsehoods of Creationism is one of my favorite books of all time. You rock Aron! Thanks for all that you do.

[@craig3226]

@God الله Allah A fantastic book as well. God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens is another one I enjoyed immensely.

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

I scatter 3 of his books and few others round the place when my bible-bashing nutcase uncle came over, thanks to the power of books he no longer comes over

[@AetherealGirl]

I just ordered a copy the other day. Can't wait to read it.

[@tayg6276]

@God الله Allah I keep a second copy of the god delusion by my front door. Whenever JW or other religious solicitors come to my door and offer me reading material I’ll say “okay, but in exchange you have to take some of my literature”. I haven’t had any at my door for several years since i started doing this lol.

[@originalhazelgreene]

"They don't worship God, so much as a book ABOUT God" Freaking brilliant.

[@originalhazelgreene]

@Dr Kent Hovind lol thanks

[@DrownedInExile]

@Dr Kent Hovind Did you enjoy your time in prison?

[@shawnahall7246]

@Dr Kent Hovind wow you done went way over the cliff, your delusional my friend. Trump is a horrible person has no empathy or love or art about him self. And you call yourself a Christian. A true Christian would not support a man that is obviously a lier and hateful and has no empathy for humanity.

[@jagm6430]

@@shawnahall7246 I think he is joking or sarcastic! I know it because a true christian never said something like that, I follow Christ btw:)

[@cloudsstar]

@Dr Kent Hovind ok you talk to God I have a question and I know the answer ask your god what the question and answer to the question is and get back to me. If not you don't talk to God and are making thing up

[@Monerman]

You are doing a great job Aron, keep it up

[@llongone2]

(About William Lane Craig) "If he's the best they got, why does Christianity still exist?" - That's a verbal pimp slap right there. Somewhere in the world, WLC felt a stinging pain across his face.

[@WilbertLek]

""If he's the best they got, why does Christianity still exist?"" Because people are dumb and lazy.

[@WilbertLek]

@Yami Marik Yes, you have to be ignorant and gullible as well.

[@Rushmanyyz]

Holy shit! Aron talking to folks in my home town while I watch from my new home in Australia. How small the internet makes the world!

[@ronaldthwaites177]

Dennis Reel, welcome to the land of OZ. You and your family will love Australia. Some may find us rude, but the fact is... if people talk shit, they will be exposed. Religion is snivelling out the back door, because Aussies stand up and tell the preacher he's talking shit.

[@littlefurrow2437]

G'day... hope the Aussie experience is a you-beaut ripper, mate.

[@Kellethorn]

"Your kids are safer with a trans person in the bathroom than a Republican Senator or a Preacher in there" *D-A-Y-U-M-N*

[@jonarudy]

"Does this mega church spell M A G A?" Aron: ha ha ha

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

I loved that!

[@morgothfromangband6082]

Isn't your Kapitol now an official MAGA church? 😂😂

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

@@morgothfromangband6082 They wish! This would be funnier to me if I weren't Texan.

[@unnanego]

Magachurch is a mosque

[@brianlaroche8856]

Maga is more like the witch the magician the gennie the made up deception, just like "scriptures" ongoin carnage forcing the deception to stand by fear

[@bulwinkle]

Good evening RN, which is Royal Navy in this neck of the woods.

[@c.guydubois8270]

We Yanks pronounce that Arrrrr mate.

[@pwuk]

@@c.guydubois8270 are they pirates, matey?

[@bulwinkle]

@@c.guydubois8270 funny that, we do here too.

[@liberalrationalist8905]

A navy in a woods? Ohhhh, rowboats and canoes?

[@billpoyfair1346]

Thanks for all you do Aron! I commented on another channel today about the current political climate and this video is relevant as well. When a political party spends decades de-funding education and pushing students to schools based on religion, cult of personality, or excessive discipline can we be surprised at the proliferation of conspiracy theories, misinformation, and a turn to authoritarianism? As the man said "I love the uneducated". Religion and lack of critical thinking skills turns out to be dangerous, who could have known?

[@billpoyfair1346]

Convincing people that curiosity paired with critical thinking is evil is the true evil. Learned that at my religious elementary school.

[@bobh5087]

I always learn new things whenever I watch your videos. Thank you, Aron, for the truth-telling and clarity.

[@robertr.7995]

Since I decided to put my belief of my religion to the test, I've been using this channel and other channels (among other resources) to challenge my own "faith" and "belief". I will spare the details, but a long story made short, I have recently come to the conclusion that it isn't healthy to simply believe something "just because".

[@imnotbilly8480]

I just found this guy 3 days Ago Out of nowhere and I haven't stopped watching him since!

[@kristineford7321]

**I've always said, they are worshipping a BOOK!**

[@NikkiDocherty74]

☝️

[@NikkiDocherty74]

@Jesus Is SATAN who worships what books?

[@savenetneutralityanti-repu7029]

Speaking of ancient books, there was a time in human history where The Iliad and The Odyssey were considered tantamount to scripture by the Greeks. In fact, the Iliad was such a commonly rewritten book they've found fragments of copies of it in ancient trash heaps. That was THEIR Bible pretty much.

[@NikkiDocherty74]

@Jesus Is SATAN 🤷‍♀️ i asked. I'm neither atheist nor religious nor religious, nor Satanist.

[@maxxam3590]

@Tyler B #2 Atheists usually love books, but we don't worship them. Christians, like Muslims, literally think their respective holy books are, well, holy. Christians foolishly worship a man-made, dull artefact.

[@MST3Kfan1]

Aron Ra, you are an absolute legend. Thank you very much and proud to be a Patreon supporter.

[@machintelligence]

You need to mention the Phylogeny Explorer Project.

[@leepeel7129]

It could be the first time he hasn't!

[@benjaminfloresart]

After listening to your talks and arguments I feel like brain has had a spa treatment🧖🏻‍♂️. Excellent points, delivery and overall message sir👍🏼 Keep up the good work. I’ll be first in line to purchase your book some day ;)

[@ManMan-qn4sw]

Thank you Aron Ra for helping me see the real world. You are a big inspiration in my life. If it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t know where I would have been today. Thank you!

[@philj3167]

Decades later... Preface of every encounter; this is how you say my name

[@takoja507]

Ya am sure he gets annoyed by it already. I mean people who invite him to these discussion could do the little research on how to pronounce his name or how he wants it to be pronounced. Not too difficult.

[@MarcLombart]

Much of what talked herein I disagreed with, not your views on religion and atheists, I'm a devout atheist, but in politics, Trump and more. The more the media would paint Trump as evil, the more I resisted. Because I didn't want to believe such a man could exist. Also, I remember Trump from when he had real hair on his head and he was more a Democrat than most. He espoused decent views on much. So, to think of him as he was being portrayed was abhorrent to me. Easier to believe a "leftist" media was deliberately lying. so, at one point in my listening to this post, I started getting irritated and was going to skip. I decided that it was intellectual cowardice to do that, so I kept to the end. I am very happy to have done so. Your words, well-spoken and chosen gave my brain a reboot. And I had a rethink of my position. I divorced personal feelings and investments from this subject and was able to clearly reflect on this for the first time. I have reversed much of my thinking of the past decade, and come to accept that there was a lot of bad in the Oval office since January of 2017. Was Trump the worst president ever? I'm not sure, but anyone that makes you miss the Shrub can't be all good. Thank you, sir, I needed that virtual slap in the face, a wakeup call.

[@TheRealSarceus]

And kudos to you, my friend, for engaging in the self-reflection that many Republicans so desperately need. The danger that the current president poses to our democracy cannot be understated.

[@oddviews]

There is nothing worse than a person who persists in a belief that has no merit or evidence to support it. It should be easy to change one's mind about something when the light is so bright it is obviously a mind changer. In reality, many people will get so stuck with the super glue of their belief that even the obvious passes them by. You are a real man, a strong man and you deserve respect for that and I give it.

[@MyReligionIs2DoGood]

Let's not forget, however, that the 'other side' got some skeletons in their closet just as well, and are dangerous also, just in a different way.

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

Good onya mate

[@Moszan]

@@MyReligionIs2DoGood I don't think I can buy into "the other side is just as bad" rhetoric after the current dumpster fire of events.

[@kakarot6627]

Hey Aron! I’m the one who emailed you about the one emailed you about AIG denying that humans are animals and the one who has been tagging you in my comments on Eric Hovind’s Facebook page. Love your work!

[@hoyboys1000]

Keep up the Great Work Aron!

[@thechaoticblaze7123]

I’d rather be in the shadow of the unknown than to cower behind a suit of ignorant armor

[@larryscarr1929]

Questions that can not be answered are far better as compared to answers that can not be questioned.

[@Defensive_Wounds]

Agreed!

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

@@larryscarr1929 Skepticism us an emotional denial of truth, as practiced by "lacktheism". When your desire to be correct out weighs your desire to find the truth. When in doubt, redefine words. Live the lie.

[@larryscarr1929]

@@Jamie-Russell-CME emotion, has no affect on what is true, or how we know. Skepticism is withholding belief until good evidence is presented. Perhaps stop making up nonsense that makes you feel better about how silly belief in a carpenter wizard is.

[@larryscarr1929]

@Yami Marik admiring the answer is i don't know, is a far more honest path to understanding then, a magical cloud wizard did everything so stop asking questions.

[@davidyaconis7002]

"You gone done messed up, A-A-Ron!" Keegan-Michael Key

[@w8m4n]

Noice

[@jmaniak1]

No Balake here today?

[@carnagemagneto2318]

I love listening to this man talk, smooth voice and sound arguments.

[@kuromyou7969]

35:54 "Now we call him Uncle Bob and ask him politely to not ruin this Thanksgiving like he did last year." Ugh, it's true.

[@lilitheden748]

I “lost” my faith a long long time ago. It actually was a process. Like waking up very slowly. This happened because I learned to think and not take another ones word for it. Being quite young I was multiple times said that I had to pray more and read more in the scriptures. So I did read more in the Bible. Unfortunately by doing that my belief didn’t get stronger in contrary it opened my eyes more. I was Roman Catholic by religion. Their dogmas and the the fact that the Pope is never wrong always smelled a little fishy too me ... When I started to read Richard Dawkins’s books it was like a revelation. I started to read more books about atheism and came to the conclusion that religion was a fraud made to keep the people in line. Thousands of years of religion hasn’t done anyone a favour. It causes wars, ignorance, inequality between sexes, intolerance for anyone and everything that isn’t in accordance to their standards... I’m from Europe. We have the luck that here religion isn’t that much of a thing anymore (except for maybe the Muslim religion that is still quite fanatic in keeping people from leaving). Some years ago I visited the US. As atheists we didn’t attend church on Sundays. People actually asked us about our believes. Being from Europe and not knowing better I said that we were atheists.. well, the reaction wasn’t very gracious. I learned quickly to avoid the topic.

[@BlockyBookworm]

Reject Catholicism, then. Religion has parts, and if some of them are fishy, then dodge those parts. I've read Richard Dawkins, and heard him speak. He's good for dismantling YECs, but not much else. His grasp of philosophy is... lacking. Religions can cause wars. Not all do, and that doesn't speak to the truth of the claim. Wars have been fought over plenty of other things you don't object to. All of those things are natural human behaviours. They apply to religion just as much to politics, scientific belief, and cultures. Hell, atheists in these comment sections are exactly the same. Religion sets standards. Christianity tells people not to hate those who don't fall in line, but to show them love instead. Islam tells you to punish them in various ways, but generalising is low-resolution and it's inaccurate. It doesn't prove Christianity false when people are bad and disobey Jesus' commandments. If anything, it comes closer to proving it right. core.ac.uk/download/pdf/58826368.pdf Read this. It's proof, of the scientific kind.

[@Daneelro]

@Lilith Eden I'm also from Europe. Unlike you, I am a lifelong atheist. I became an active one not in reaction to theists at home, but when I was confronted with the phenomenon of US Young Earth creationism on-line and learned that they are nearly half of the US and the main base for lunatic US political conservatism. Still, I say to you: the small minority of bigoted Christians that remain are still a much bigger group and a much bigger problem in Europe than fanatic Muslims. Contrary to the common wisdom spread by xenophobes, European Muslims are not at all immune to the same secularisation that is hitting Christians here. Even if by all the different metrics of religiousness, as well as retention rates, Europeans with descent from Muslim countries are on average more religious than those without, they are also significantly more secularised and liberal than people in their countries of ancestry and each generation is more that than the previous. In fact, while xenophobes focus in on Islamist rhetoric about Islamising Europe as if there were any realistic prospect of that, the fundamentalists' main beef is just with this secularisation and how it flows back into the ancestral countries, that's what they want to stop by all means (and a xenophobic backlash to a terror attack, a backlash targeting all Muslims as the same, plays right into it). Seldom in the open, but secularisation is now even spreading in the most fundamentalist parts of the Muslim world, as evidenced by the 3 million downloads of a bootleg Arabic translation of Dawkins's "The God Delusion" in Saudi Arabia (that's 8.5% of the entire population, including children), and you can't underestimate the part European Muslims and ex-Muslims play in this cultural process. Meanwhile, we still have Catholic and Orthodox fundamentalists crushing women's or LGBTQ rights in Central and Eastern Europe, we have Opus Dei and other elite-focused groups having their supporters at the top of conservative parties from Spain to the UK, we still have versions of Christianity as state religion in many countries, and even without, we have lots of both high-level and low-level clergy who make advocacy for political parties in church. Even in a much weakened and civilised state, our established churches have tremendous power unmatched by newer and/or imported cults [which, BTW, include US fundamentalist churches], and still are the main religious source of problems.

[@lilitheden748]

@@Daneelro True, we forget too easily that the Roman Catholic church still has great power in Europe. All the “royals” from the non protestant countries are very Catholic and most of them are indeed fanatics that support Opus Dei. They influence even big corporations and politicians... It’s not easy to fight them because they have power and lots and lots of money. Money the “church “ has taken en still takes from its believers .

[@Daneelro]

@@BlockyBookworm I know and admire Dawkins from the time he was primarily known for his views in science, and am an atheist, but unfortunately, I must agree with you that his criticism of religion has large blind spots. I also agree with you that religions aren't the sole cause of wars, and that many religious people ignore central tenets of their own holy books. However, these arguments don't go deep enough. Even if Dawkins's main focus is YECs, Catholics aren't YECs, and the only way his books could have helped deconvert Lilith is by recognition of logical mistakes that are committed by a much wider circle of religious people than _either_ YECs or Catholics. IMHO with relation to wars and other violence, the main problem with religion is not even specific incitement to violence, but giving people a false sense of moral certainty for immoral actions. As even Aron-Ra in the video makes clear, even in this field, religion is not alone, tribalism and secular political ideologies can also achieve a mindset like that. But to think that you're acting in line with a supreme authority that shouldn't be questioned is a problem in general (even if it motivates some people to do good), and a problem that's inherent in religion. There are two problems with absolving religions of the acts of people ignoring some parts of those religions. One is that it is a No True Scotsman fallacy: you are denying their sincere beliefs, and you could do that on the basis of successive transgressions until no one is left. The bigger problem is that those you accuse of not following Jesus's teaching about loving your enemy could cite several Bible verses with the contrary advice, and not just in the Old Testament. I am a lifelong atheist, but in my younger years, I believed my ethics are similar to Christian ethics just without all the supernatural stuff - that ended when confronting the phenomenon of YECs led me to read the Bible cover to cover, and discovered all the appalling murder & mayhem and primitive morals and crazy commandments (there are a lot more than ten) "good Christians" don't talk about.

[@Daneelro]

@Yami Marik Christianity (much less your own private version of it) is not the sole religion or faith, so what you claim is not the dictionary definition. Different religious people have faith in very different things, and you could end up having faith in Satanic beliefs without any church. Which you apparently have.

[@GKCanman]

Trump didn't call the national guard on his own protestors, VP Pence did.

[@GKCanman]

@@Titansdragon75 I take your point but Trump wouldn't call them rioters. If i picked a word for them i would call them something harsher. Something about bringing pipe bombs, violently attacking police, supplies to tie up federally elected officials and tearing down an American flag to fly one that you identify better with makes me think something other that "riot." Revolutionary sounds too noble. Terrorist sounds too covert. Help me out here.

[@daviddeida]

@@GKCanman You poor cupcake.You stink of soy based fake outrage..LMFAO

[@AbandonedVoid]

@@daviddeida Soy is pretty delicious. It's a shame that the alt-right is so irrationally afraid of a harmless bean paste taking away their man-card. I think it just shows how fragile their "masculinity" really is. Total sissies.

[@daviddeida]

@@AbandonedVoid LMAO...Its rancid and full of estrogen...Facts dont care about your feelings.!!! ROTFL

[@AbandonedVoid]

@@daviddeida lmao soy doesn't have any estrogen in it, you illiterate brute. It has phytoestrogens, which are a completely separate class of molecule. Estrogen is a hormone. They aren't even remotely similar.

[@manuelwatts1864]

"Faith, like a jackal, feeds amongst the tombs ... " ---- H. Melville

[@angiep.7253]

Yesterday morning my lovely grandfather committed suicide. I didn't convert to Christianity as many said I would. I am so sad, but I am calm. All my family loved him until the end of his days. R.I.P my abuelito.

[@fozzsr]

Thanks Aron! As always, right on the nose.👌

[@lizzymc1300]

I want to come down to Dallas just to take you to lunch, Aron!😄 You’re my absolute favorite channel on KZbin.✨

[@arthurheijmen9517]

i like your speech Aron.

[@doctorheadblog]

I just want you to know that if we could choose our family you would be my favorite uncle.

[@eig1979]

I enjoyed foundational falsehoods of creationism on audible. I listen to the Happy Atheist as well.

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

I listened to it on a 10 day dive across the Nullarbor Plain.

[@StoicContrarian]

“When you become the thing you think; you can’t change your mind without changing your identity” 🤯

[@sirjuliusnorris7513]

Well said, Aron, well said! Thank you.

[@nicholashurst780]

For the record, your series on the classification of life is one of the greatest things in the history of the internet I only wish I could afford to support you on patreon but currently... Sob story that no one is interested in involving my own poverty

[@stuartbagedonow9770]

Thanks once again AronRa that was great, I’ve been listening to your KZbins and at the end of every one I always say to myself that was the best one yet. Unfortunately religion prays on a human weakness, it’s called our psychology. Religious leaders and right wing politicians know this and that’s why they’ve joined forces. Thanks Stu

[@edwardtrickett6064]

I am just in awe with you Aron, sincerely and truly You are simply wonderful

[@gr6914]

yes. faith is the process used to fool one's self.

[@a.randomjack6661]

I believe you... Paraphrasing some Electric monk :))

[@joecrunkleton596]

A baby has faith it's mother won't cut its throat. But she might. Faith is important.

[@joecrunkleton596]

@Yami Marik How do you know. Do you have faith in your self?

[@joecrunkleton596]

@Yami Marik That was very cogent. Well said. I agree.

[@scottplumer3668]

Brilliant, as always.

[@MegaPeedee]

I am very pleased that there is an AronRa. Sir, you are an intelligent decent human being and I wish that you could be cloned - this world needs to be populated with critical educated and honest thinkers who aren't afraid to stand up for truth. I hope that one day they will build a commemorative statue to you and honour you in as many ways as possible. Australia could do with some clones - a lot of them, actually. A few days ago I was told by a Pentecostal neighbour that I deserved to die, because I am an atheist. His judgement came just minutes after I comforted him about the death of his pet dog. That is how he repaid me for my empathy and sympathy. He has previously gone about the neighbourhood telling people I worship the Devil (whom I don't believe exists -he does, though). I am confronted regularly by Christian apologists who speak for their god - obviously without ever hearing from him/it. It is a sickness, a disease coursing through our communities, and I know that when one dies others will take their place, a never-ending pandemic. How evil are the liars in pulpits, the ring masters?

[@emperorsgrandads]

So articulate and concise. Total admiration for the guy. Keep fighting the good fight.

[@bulwinkle]

Religion = cult. It is merely a matter of scale.

[@GregoryJohnson-l1g]

No, cults need high level control over thoughts, information, emotions, and behaviors. Religions are more a group of people with like beliefs, where cults have a high degree of control over their subjects and punishments for leaving. The people that go to church every sunday and accept science and have real friends that are not their religion and don't try to evangelize all the time are not in a cult.

[@mastegoh7139]

If go by technicalities then Christianity is a cult, and Scientology is a religion.

[@GregoryJohnson-l1g]

@@mastegoh7139 the dictionary definition is flawed, it should not be used because it fails to take into account anything other than specific types of cults, such as scientology, and it makes any religion that follows a god a cult, but they are not

[@nathanjora7627]

@@GregoryJohnson-l1g I agree with you that in principle a religion need not be a cult, but all religions in practice, especially the main ones, have cultish aspects, and the more fervent the religiousness, the closer the behavior is to a cultist. Take control for example : wether we’re talking about behavior control, or acceptance of authority, we know that both of these are contained in the Bible, and seen in real life with priests gaining status and authority, sometimes unquestionable authority, thanks merely to their position in the clergy. Take what Jesus said about Christians having to be ready to abandon all, and hate everyone, including themselves, to only leave him as the only object of their love. The perfect cookbook for a cult. And think of the ostracism that nearly all mainstream religions impose on non-religious, especially ex-religious, when they are strong enough. So in theory I agree with you, but in practice the main religions were born as cults, survived as such, and remain as such as long as they aren’t tamed by some other ideology or external factor, generally an alliance of secularism, capitalism, an improvement in living standards, and higher quality of education across the population.

[@GregoryJohnson-l1g]

@@nathanjora7627 I agree, the main religions started as cults, but as you said if they get corrupted by outside sources they can go past cults. This has happened to a lot of Christianity in the U.S., every Christian I know is accepting of science and is not consumed by religion, even if the source for their religious belief advocates for being a cult they do not follow it to the letter. Moderate Christianity has shed enough of the cult endorsing beliefs to no longer be a cult.

[@jhill4874]

But we have Pope Ham telling us we have to believe in the bible the way He tells us to believe in it.

[@brethager3265]

😂😂😂

[@drogusmaxwell6640]

I always laugh at the profound ignorance when I hear "Satan worshipping atheists ". The complete lack of understanding that not believing in a god also means not believing in a devil is just astounding.

[@TheOJDrinker]

They're so far into the us vs them mentality, that anyone that doesn't worship god automatically worships satan, simply by the fact that they don't worship god.

[@BlockyBookworm]

But not believing in God doesn't mean not believing in the devil. That's a non-sequitur. Religion and God aren't synonymous, and you can disbelieve in either while believing in the other.

[@BlockyBookworm]

@Peter C I'd think the reason to believe in a God is that there's evidence for Him. Same for the devil. Good and evil don't exist. There is only power, desire and will.

[@drogusmaxwell6640]

@@BlockyBookworm nah

[@BlockyBookworm]

@@drogusmaxwell6640 Nah to what?

[@phuckit1902]

This is one of the best talks on the subject that I've ever heard. Can't believe I never seen this one and I watch all your stuff lol.

[@jimmyquigley5777]

No faith without bad faith.If some-one finds their mythology comforting, OK, it's their bed-time story. Dishonest but harmless. A "little white lie" . Those who would try to force others to accept their story-book are dangerous. As a Western European atheist living in France I no longer have to deal with as much bullshit, we seem to have we some liberty for the moment. Over the last half century things have improved, we used to be crazy too. Even Americans might grow up one day.

[@joyporcella81]

As an American i have one quote that stuck with me.The United States of Amnesia as Gore Vidal deducted and it rings true forevermore.

[@ReleaseMyKrakken]

Registered Nurse.... that went right over my head.... hahahaha

[@SteveFrenchWoodNStuff]

@ 4:48 - Mere minutes after Aron explicitly and clearly explains how to pronounce his name (because EVERY MF'er gets it wrong, no matter how many times he corrects them), the guy says it wrong. For fuck's fucking sake.

[@jn69uk]

Finally, got round to purchasing an ebook copy (Via Google's Play Books) of Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, and I'm looking forward to reading it.

[@godlessblessings7020]

Thanks for the IDEA!! an ebook *copy (Via Google's Play Books)*

[@vijo2616]

ref 30.25 mins in: Pence had to call in the National Guard, because P45 wasn't going to do it.

[@dennism5565]

Pence: - not to be confused with Pez.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

195 megachurches here. That is actually somewhat frightening.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Does that make Dallas the capital of Christendom?

[@alistairmackintosh9412]

There's more strip joints.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

@@autobotstarscream765 Depends on what exactly you mean. I really don't think so. While we have some churches that advocate a "Christlike" life, most appear (I haven't taken a survey) to Prosperity Gospel rich-good-poor-bad types or hate-everybody-not-us like First Baptist. Not all Baptists are remotely like them.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@kathryngeeslin9509 Yeah, I noticed that Baptists aren't a monolith and that multiple distinct organizations exist that share nothing but having "Baptist" in their name and professing faith in Christ.

[@Scyllax]

Billions of dollars stuffed up rich assholes.

[@jgibson5041]

Aron is totally on point here, faith is fooling yourself. People use faith to attribute agency to things when they can think of no other explanation. Humans evolved in such a way that those who attributed agency to the things they did not understand or were afraid of caused a survival advantage. An early human who ran away from a startling sound had a survival advantage over one who did not. Sure, that sound might just be a piece of fruit falling from a tree or a small rodent scurrying around in the leaves, but it also may be a predator looking for its next meal. The people who were more cautious and attributed agency or intent behind the sound survived more often than those who did not and therefore passed on that trait to their offspring. As humans developed agriculture and began living in large groups, their way of life changed, but their instincts did not. Attributing agency when there is none remained and remains still in humans. From it's inception, humanity has created countless gods to fill in their gaps in knowledge and assuage their fears. For example, the ancient Greeks were a seafaring people. They knew that the seas were calm at times and tumultuous at others. They often experienced storms while sailing the Aegean Sea. They also had experiences with earthquakes. Additionally, the Greeks used horses for long journeys. These facts may not seem to be connected but bear with me, they are. Did they understand why the sea behaved this way? Did they understand why sudden storms happened at sea? Did they understand why earthquakes occur? Did they understand how the horse evolved or even considered of the concept of evolution? No they did not. There was a gap in their knowledge. Due to their ignorance of science, they created Poseidon, god of the sea, earthquakes, storms and horses. We now know what causes the aforementioned phenomena and understand how life diversified into all of its current forms. Those gaps in knowledge have been closed so the worship of the Greek pantheon of gods has ceased. Every god invented by man was created in a similar fashion and most are no longer worshiped. The god revered by the Christians, Jews and yes the Muslims is Yahweh or YHWH and he was no different. He began as a middle eastern storm deity and one of the sons of El-Elyon. Psalm 82 even admits that the Jewish god was a son of "the Most High." The Hebrew word for "Most High God" is El Elyon. The early Semitic peoples had a pantheon of gods much like most other cultures. The point is this, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and every religion on the face of the Earth believe that they are right, that their favorite god or gods are the only pathway to truth. Given the thousands of gods that mankind has worshiped throughout our history, how arrogant does one have to be to assume that their preferred god is the one true god? I have heard apologists say that you have to believe it on faith, but as Aron and Matt Dilahunty have said many times, faith can lead you to a conclusion you believe to be true, but it can also lead someone else to a conclusion that you believe to be false. Therefore, faith is not a reliable pathway to finding truth. It is the atheist who is using their critical thinking skills, not the theist. We are the ones who have given this subject much thought. We are the ones who will freely admit that we could be wrong, the ones who would change our minds if proven wrong, the ones seeking and advocating for truth. Many of us used to be fundamentalist Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. All we ask is that the theist provide evidence, credible evidence, testable evidence that would prove the existence of their preferred deity. In the case of the most popular religious group in the United States, the Christians, when they fail to provide credible evidence and their flaws in logic are pointed out to them, they inevitably fall back to quoting Bible verses, threatening their interlocutor with eternal damnation or appealing to pseudoscientific apologetics, all of which are a signs of defeat. For more information on the origins of the Jewish god, see a paper I wrote at infidels.org/kiosk/article/were-the-ancient-israelites-henotheistic-958.html Thank you Aron for what you do. Keep on educating the world and promoting science and reason.

[@kenhammscousin4716]

Dear lord nobody has time for all that. KZbin isn’t the forum for long diatribes. But I do agree

[@jgibson5041]

@@kenhammscousin4716 lol yeah I might have gotten a little carried away with length. Sorry about that.

[@andrewhampson5162]

Consistently one of tbe most articulate, knowledgeable, objective, and interesting atheist activists today. Aron Ra has helped me grasp onto the closest thing we know to be the truth and feel comfortable doing it.

[@erictaylor5462]

3:40 You should not consume raw men. If you want to be a canabal, at least cook your victims.

[@BerryTheBnnuy]

Aron, speak for yourself, I'm just finishing up a glass of baby blood.

[@poonoi1968]

Noob, I have mine in the skull of a tortured puppy hahahaha ;)

[@BerryTheBnnuy]

@@poonoi1968 That's metal AF

[@c.guydubois8270]

With tabasco?

[@BerryTheBnnuy]

@@c.guydubois8270 Tobasco? I'm not into cool drinks. Try The End from Pepper Palace.

[@brianlaroche8856]

I like Pinot Noir please

[@jamesserbos6697]

Only a fool can fool himself.

[@godlessblessings7020]

During this COVID "incarceration" for *entertainment* I do magic tricks *in front of a mirror* ; ... AND, damn, IS THIS guy GOOD!! Still can't figure out how he does it! Muse: James Serbos (OAFCFH!)

[@petertrnka9127]

Keep well. Keep safe. AND KEEP SPEAKING THE TRUTH. Love your work and commitment.

[@jamtaco2667]

Anyone who grew up in northeast Florida in the early 90s with basic TV (antenna) probably remembers... Channel 59. From 10-12 years old I was raised by my aunt who was Seventh day adventist. From Friday sundown to Saturday sundown was the sabbath. We (my cousin, step cousin, aunt and uncle in law) weren't allowed to watch or participate in anything not related to god. I ended up watching channel 59 and being told they were all false prophets... and the corruption and lies they tried to instill in me made me skeptical... it took manu years to get over the indoctrination... but I remember, still, so much of those times because it was the same thing week from week and day to day. Straight up traumatizing.

[@PigRipperLAW]

Whoa, you’re talking to people from my neck of the globe.

[@leepeel7129]

I embraced the word atheist a long time ago. Rock hard and ride free, man!

[@leepeel7129]

@Yami Marik Of all the religions in the history of the world, do really think your is the one true religion? You are telling lies, so that makes you a liar.

[@leepeel7129]

@Yami Marik Where in the bible does it say that demons will eat my ass? Anyway, I'm not the kind of person that does things I need to ask forgiveness for. If I do something, I can tell you why. I am not afraid of life, nor am I afraid of death. I can stand up and be held accountable for my deeds without groveling and trying to have my "sins" absolved and forgotten. With magic. For an afterlife nobody ever sees. Save yourself. Vaya Sin Miedo

[@Cory_Springer]

@@leepeel7129 the first time I said "I am a-theist" aloud was in 2013, I still remember the feeling of decades of religious guilt being lifted with that one single breath. It is a term I've embraced ever since.

[@leepeel7129]

@@Cory_Springer Right on, man. I forget the ancient Greek guys name, but he said "Nothing to fear in god, nothing to feel in death"

[@littlefurrow2437]

It hugs you back.

[@GlobeHackers]

You nailed it on every level, so I guess I won't say a word again on these important matters other than to riff to entertain myself. If I am too tired to riff, I will share this video. Ra...Nice essay. You are the Robert G. Ingersoll of the 21st century on superfoods. I defend you. I stand with a sword, speed, and shield against the stubborn, willfully ignorant that wants to see this world burn. I delivered the same harangue so many times over the last quarter century. A vast international chorus of good sense won't make a difference. People love, love, love leaps of faith, and "true believing" is like catnip to folks. But I won't slump my shoulders. I'll go for a bike ride.

[@robercoli6136]

I want to hang out with Aron some day and tell him my deconversion story.

[@jon__doe]

And I'd like to remind you that God still loves you.

[@robercoli6136]

@@jon__doe thanks and Thor loves you

[@CNCmachiningisfun]

@@jon__doe Strong claim. Now *BACK IT UP!*

[@CNCmachiningisfun]

@Liquid Metal Why do you want to quote from a book of *LIES* and *FAIRYTALES?*

[@CNCmachiningisfun]

@Liquid Metal Your buyBULL is a book of *LIES* and *FAIRYTALES.* Deal with it!

[@DrownedInExile]

Faith is make-believe for adults.

[@torbjornlindberg3246]

I have faith that I'm not fooling myself. No, wait. I KNOW I am fooling myself, I just don't know about what...

[@VMP-bf3dv]

Aron looks genuinely happy in this video’s thumbnail

[@joyporcella81]

Aron you are so over my head but it sure feels right...no more lies no more right wing religious nuts. I wish to extend my language and you help me with this better than any English teacher!!!!

[@davidgardner8932]

The most honest person is one who says I don’t know if God exists or not.

[@vortimerofkent128]

The most honest person is the one acknowledging that there is not the slightes indicator for the existence of any gods, and therefor it is reasonable to assume there exists none.

[@stylis666]

I don't know if Zeus exists, or if fairies exist, or if Santa is real, or if interdimensional beings created this universe by accident or if one of their children made it for a science fair. Maybe the most honest person should get a hobby. It will literally take eternity to say every useless thing you don't know if it exists or not. The most honest person who DOES have a hobby wouldn't consider useless horseshit ideas until there is at least evidence that it's possible.

[@Dylans503]

You lost weight brother! Looking really good!

[@CNCmachiningisfun]

@krinkov545 Get a life, you *OXYGEN THIEF!*

[@Dylans503]

@krinkov545 you want hell to be... hotter? And people to suffer more? Somethings wrong with you dude.

[@philaypeephilippotter6532]

@@Dylans503 It certainly doesn't seem very _christian,_ does it?

[@thunderbird3694]

"Faith" is required to "Believe in Lies" and that is why religions demand "Faithfulness" to maintain Power and Control over their Subjects

[@BloodClanResurrection]

I can imagine Ben "if you no longer wish to be homeless, get a job" Shapiro debating Aron.

[@BloodClanResurrection]

@Peter C hahaha! Agreed

[@BloodClanResurrection]

@Yami Marik Exactly. I especially see all the shit people like him try to undermine given I am of Native descent. I see through all his anecdotes.

[@MerkurioBua]

If you ask Jordan Peterson he'll say: "Acting as IF". In other simpler words, lying to yourself.

[@STEVENFRYFRY]

Why waste time talking to that?

[@badgerlife9541]

Yes, but if you truly listen to what Jordan Peterson means whenever he says this, then you would know that he means: it makes a lot of sense for humans to treat each other “AS IF” all humans have an divine and intrinsic value. So “As IF” there actually were a God who has endowed humans with such a spark of of intrinsic worth and value. A spark of greatness or of the divine... whatever you want to call it. Now, of course humans have zero intrinsic value - as based in science or physics, etc. Our lives are NOT holy - by any objective methods of measurement! Humans hold no value according to science, or by any other laws of nature. For example, if one human kills another human, this is not virtuous or evil according to the laws of nature - only our “belief”, so the stories that we tell ourselves, makes it so. JBP says that it is our belief in liberal humanism (a non-religion but still an IDEOLOGY that was built on the foundations of Christianity’s belief in a divine and valuable soul) that has given Western countries many of today’s societal values of good and evil/ right and wrong.

[@badgerlife9541]

So in some cases, the world is a better place if we do lie to ourselves because we believe in an ideology (similar to a religion). For example, if all humans agree and act “AS IF” a human life has an intrinsic and immeasurable value and AS IF each human can reach their full potential because they carry some kind of spark of the divine (even though, they obviously don’t! 😂🙈). This is what Jordan Peterson means. I‘m an atheist, but I could still find a lot of meaning in the lessons about human nature that Jordan Peterson shares. 👍

[@MerkurioBua]

@@badgerlife9541 Yeah right, let's lie to children who get cancer that they'll go to heaven right? And let's create a whole fucking belief system consisting of such ideas. No fucking way, I'd rather be a nihilist and a realist and see and feel the world as it is than be a delusional believer.

[@MerkurioBua]

@@badgerlife9541 Nothing is divine. Nothing in this damn planet or universe is divine or holy or pure. It's a hell of a mess.

[@goldenskeptic6309]

Faith is the road to gullibility.

[@WilbertLek]

"faith" = Gullibility.

[@keyanmoradi5088]

Faith IS gullibility.

[@j3rutej3alla30]

Thank You Sir. Well done. I needed that real RA talk.

[@craigrogers3864]

Hey Aron!

[@skepticmafia]

Hey!

[@Tmueller2366]

I want to have a beer with you so bad!

[@krioni86sa]

Me too

[@Cory_Springer]

Same

[@Redhunteur2]

And speeches like that are why I love you, Satan!

[@tabularasa0606]

Hail Satan!

[@Darqion]

@Yami Marik quite literally everyone else. Finally i see you talking sense :) The end times have been coming for how many years now?

[@scorpinka]

I've followed you for long now and watched so many of your videos. I cannot even begin to express my gratitude towards you for your carefully laid-out arguments and your meticulous explanations on every topic you discuss. It's for the likes of you and Matt Dillahunty that KZbin is precious.

[@vonscharf]

190 mega churches paying ...zero tax !