Arrow FOC Explained And The Advantages

[@mattsteed8015]

Jason, thank you for taking the time to make these videos. They are very helpful.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thank you Matt!

[@pensnut08]

The "weight leads" explanation.... Perfect!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it

[@bunky6765]

This is some of the best information I have heard in the last 10 years since I got into archery. I also shoot GT 3555, but with only 125 gr. heads and no brass inserts. My FOC is 12.93% and my arrow weight is only 422 gr. I'm shooting a 44 lb longbow. Now that hunting season has ended, I am going to start tinkering with FOC. I like that you explained how the length of your inserts allows you to keep your arrow spine the same due to stiffening the shaft. Very helpful info.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thank you. If you have any questions as you start experimenting let me know!

[@Life-of-Bluegrass_Music]

Shortening your arrow stiffens the arrow. Adding weight by length weakens.

[@scottlindholm5568]

@@Life-of-Bluegrass_Music not if it's inside the shaft for the first 4"

[@reneov05]

Well done! Great understanding of arrow flight! Rock and string, brilliant analogy!

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thank you

[@T-Mak-s7x]

This was awesome. What a great explanation. I thought I understood FOC, but nope. First person to tell me about FOC was Rothaar, in about 1985? But not like this. Thank you.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@mesopotamia-iq]

Great video benefit information . Thanks for sharing your knowledge . Keep coming your videos.

[@kennypringle4580]

Excellent information bud👌

[@SamkoTradBow]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@wk9953]

Great video. Good information. It is hard to get into the higher categories with a longer draw length. 30.5 inches and about 23% foc

[@SamkoTradBow]

Yes it is. But your set up is perfect and works great and you get all the benefits of foc at that zone already.

[@wk9953]

@@SamkoTradBow That it is and I get enough of them to not chase geese for that extra 8%

[@caseysmith544]

I will simply use a higher weight tip, like a 125--145 grain hunting broadhead if I find they need to be but in a similar design to what I use now probably from Muzzy or something, if not a tip that is the pointed bullet nose screw in at 100 to 125 and find a glue over shaft broadhead to fit on the arrow. Currently have 100 grain hunting tips to match what I shoot normally for the regular tip. I do find that having a fast enough bow is the key right now and one that can use the Fast Flight string to get the FPS faster to also help with the wind penetration as the first step.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Lots of different ways to set stuff up. Glad you found a set up that works great for you.

[@caseysmith544]

@@SamkoTradBow for now, I want to test it more to see if it is what I really want or need.

[@stevedaughton7247]

Hey Jason, I am a big fan of your videos. I was wondering about a video you did a long time ago about putting rope into your shafts for added weight. I have been playing around with it with good results. Just curious what your thoughts are on using rope now because I'm gathering that you don't still use it?? Thanks Steve

[@SamkoTradBow]

the rope was a great way to add weight to the whole shaft. i shot arrows that way for many years. It worked fantastic. Now we see the benifits of forward weight. So i think if you are starting a new arrow system go for the foc and components that can make that happen. However if you are just wanting to mkae your current arrows heavier without to much tuning to be done the rope works excellent.

[@davidware8496]

Would you be willing to sacrifice a GPP goal for a little extra FOC? I guess what I’m asking is, what is more important? Kinetic energy or how efficiently that energy is delivered? I hit about 18% FOC almost on accident trying to get arrows that both bareshafted well and met the 10 GPP goal that I was focused on. Great video. Best I’ve seen on the subject so far

[@SamkoTradBow]

Great question! I am looking for a range for each rather than exact number. So as long as I hit those ranges for both I'm good.

[@knobstonestickbows4962]

I shoot cedar 65/70, 28" long with 200gn ace's 9n the front. I messed around with different lengths and weights and found that combo worked well. They fly really straight and hit straight. I missed and hit a bag target 9n labor day and blew all the way thru it lol. I tried some woody weights of various weights thinking 8d need more weight to get that 65/70 flexing right but surprisingly only 200 did it. Took me a couple days tho to figure it out lol

[@SamkoTradBow]

Awesome! Glad you got them all dialed in!

[@UncleDanBand64]

I am experimenting with high foc arrows this season. 300 up front on a 27" axis. No doubt a heavy arrow penetrates better. I have killed Elk with a 400 grain arrow. Blew clean though. My arrow this year is 588. What sucks is the trajectory. With carbon if you want weight...they are pretty much high foc.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Trajectory is not really that important if ypu keep your shots close anyway. I shoot a 720 grain arrow out of a 57 pound longbow but would never shoot past 20 yards on an animal. My average over last 200 animals I've shot is about 11 yards.

[@UncleDanBand64]

@tradbowpodcast True, for Eastern Hunting. I prefer 15 yards. Colorado Elk. Shots can be a twice that.

[@kennypringle4580]

I just bought a Bear Montana longbow. It’s 64”, 45# @28”. I draw/pull 28 or 28-1/2”. I was sold Easton Legacy carbon 400 shafts at 30” total with a 100 grain field target tip. Should I have gone with 125 grain tips? Do I have the right shafts?

[@SamkoTradBow]

Everyone is different with thier release and form details but I would think you probably need more weight up front. Best way to figure it out is just shoot it for a couple weeks and get the form down and build consistency in how you shoot. Then bare shaft test and see how the arrows fly and adjust accordingly.

[@itsabigginfishin1746]

How much weight is to much weight? I'm shooting a 50lb Bear Grizzly, this will be my first season hunting with it. My arrow weighs 338.2 with insert, arrows are Bear Traditonal Only 400 spine full length carbon. I've been trying to decide which broadheads to get, was originally Thinking of using the 200 grain Grizzy Bruin which would put my total arrow weight at 538.2 but would really like to use the Tuff Head MeatHead 265 Grain. My question is do you think the 260 grain broad head would be to much since my bow is only 50lbs? It would put my total arrow weight at 603.2

[@SamkoTradBow]

Only you can decide what's the right combo for you based on the trajectory vs quietness, and more stable flight etc. But I personally feel anything between 10- 14 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow draw is a good area to be in and gives you all the advantages you want. So example a 500 grain arrow would be a 10 grain per pound set up on a 50# bow. Now the kicker is you can not just slap any weight head you want on your arrow. Your broadhead weight will factor into your arrows tuning and change thw spine of the overall arrow. So you will most likely need to find the right weight head that shoots best out of your arrow. Then find a broadhead close to that weight. Or you have to change all your arrows if you go with a head that doesn't tune well with you set up.

[@SamkoTradBow]

I would suggest watching a couple youtube videos on bare shaft tuning a recurve. These videos will explain all of this in very full detail and teach you exactly how to make sure your arrows are tune right.

[@wanr5701]

Thank you for the explaination. For target archery applications on recurve shooting out between 30 metres to 90 metres, do higher FOC something around 15% and more will influence the trajectory more and therefore impact the sight setups?

[@SamkoTradBow]

Good quest and one I can not answer as I dont shoot target archery and practice 90% of the time under 30 yards. Sorry couldn't help

[@Flexhunter308]

Hey buddy awesome video, been wanting to build high foc arrows but confused on spine.. I have 65 pound Martin hunter recurve but my draw is 30 inches and so will be around 70 pounds at my drawlength, if I’m to shoot 10 grains per pound that’s a 700 grain arrow (which I use currently) in 300 spine. My question is to build a 700 grain arrow with 30% foc should my spine be at 250??

[@SamkoTradBow]

Great question. When you have a longer draw length it's much harder to get into those high foc numbers because you run out of spine options before you get there. You are gonna have to experiment but you probably cant get to 30% with a 30 inch draw. But that's ok too. 20% us also amazing!

[@bobdrawbaugh4207]

Good video on a complicated subject. I’ve been think of trying this. But I shoot lite weight bows due to a shoulder injury. So I don’t know how much weight I could add and still get good arrow flight.

[@caseysmith544]

A way to get to the more extreme FOC with wood is to use thicker diameter arrow shafts and shave the back end to tapper back like a baseball bat made with no taper back to a knob at the other end. In this case one has to use the fit overtop plastic nocks for the bow, cutting out/off the old wood nock. Just do be aware of how thick the front is, to find glue over tips and or broadheads to fit the arrow. Another Even Easier Way: Find heavy glue over tips then dull the nose and glue over that some traditional broadheads.

[@curly85021]

Awesome video Jason I have seen this ba few times now... I have been shooting the same aluminum legacy shafts for about 8 years more so recently. I'm shooting a pretty simalar poundage and draw length as you and want to play around with carbon and FOC. What shafts and spine exactly are you using? They look like the traditional only ones that 3 rives has. Would be nice to have a rough starting point.

[@SamkoTradBow]

My set is pretty unique as I'm running custom made double inserts for a 200 grain insert but they are longer than most 200 grain inserts. So yoy might want to go with a 400 spine vs my 500. (Maybe, everyone is different). I shoot .500 spine gold tip traditional. Will be switching to so.ething else next time but probably still a .246 diameter. Mine are 27 inches from throat of nock to cut. 200 grain insert, and 250 grain broadhead. I fletch mine with my own cut design of 4 inch highback fethers.

[@curly85021]

@@SamkoTradBow thanks sooo much... I've watched just about every one of your videos but I haven't come across the shaft details though.. long time watcher one of the best hunting educational channels I know... have yet to take your hunting course yet only because I'm in suck a different terrain... Love your stuff man never stop!!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@curly85021 thank you. Glad you are enjoying the info! Let me know what arrow combo you end up with.

[@curly85021]

Will do!! I might play with my aluminums first since I have them. Where the best place to order the shafts ?

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@curly85021 fs discount archery or lancaster jave vest prices i know of

[@bobdrawbaugh4207]

So how is to much FCO for a given set up? I’ve been shoot lite weight set up due to a shoulder injury, 40 and 45 pounds. So I have been shooting a normal FOC., 125 up front big 5 inch feathers in the back. I’ve been playing with high FCO with 250 up front. They hit only 2 inches lower that the 125s. The 250 gives me about 25% FCO. I could get 30 wit 300 up front. But the arrow seems odd it’s so heavy. I haven’t made up an arrow yet for the 300. But it seems like a lot for a lite weight bow. Your thoughts?

[@SamkoTradBow]

Great question. Anything about 20% is great with very noticeable improvements. No need to go any higher if you like the way your 25% is flying. 30% is better but only better marginally. And if you are going to sacrifice flight or tuning it's not worth chasing.

[@mattdotson3165]

Does all this Information hold true for a compound bow too.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Yes. 100%

[@bqoutdoors2334]

My draw length and size is very similar to you what arrow length and spine do you shoot ? Thanks

[@SamkoTradBow]

My arrows are unique as I shoot a custom made 3 inch 200 grain insert. But I shoot a 27 inch gold tip 500 spine with a 200 grain insert, and 250 grain broadhead. Total arrow weight is 710

[@richardsiegrist392]

So I shoot a matthews switchback. Draw weight is set at 50 something pounds. Would I want to shoot an arrow with a higher foc to get more penatration?

[@SamkoTradBow]

High foc is always a good thing if you can make it happen. But not something you need to immediately switch to. Just something to strive for next rime you make arrows

[@4dailyrunner]

Question: does a higher FOC require a greater arrow spine? If I load up a 400 spine arrow with 500 grain inserts and launch it to 330 FPS with a compound how, will the the shaft splinter? Honest curiosity. ‘not being a jackass. Thank you for the video.

[@SamkoTradBow]

Great question especially for a compound shooter where you can tune the bow to compensate for arrow spine. But yes you will need a stiffer spine shaft to handle 500 grains up front. Problem is there are not really any dedicated charts that I know of for a 500 grain head so it will take some testing with bare shifting or paper tuning to make sure if flies right.

[@brianc6739]

Thanks man

[@SamkoTradBow]

Welcome

[@DixieBowhunter-m5g]

So it doesn't matter if its tail left or tail right if you have a lot of weight on the front?

[@SamkoTradBow]

@DixieBowhunter-m5g it definitely matters and you want to tune for best arrow flight. But weight leads and even if thw wind kicks it a bit it will stay on track and do it's job

[@aslanbosnakoglu8240]

knowledge

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it

[@robsarchery9679]

nice

[@SamkoTradBow]

Thanks

[@millenniumfox]

how and where do can i customize arrows

[@SamkoTradBow]

There are many custom arrow makers out there if you google search them. But most people make them themselves. Only tools you really need to buy is a fletching jig and those are 40-80 bucks

[@millenniumfox]

@@SamkoTradBow im new to archery i have a 40lb recurve bow ive been watching your videos i already believe youre the best content creator and the most experienced archer out here. wish i was an engineer like you to make arrows seems complicated but maybe its cause im new to the sport. seen your video on FOC. what else should i know?

[@SamkoTradBow]

@nelsonnash2115 making your own arrows is fun and easy. You can go to 3riversarchery.com look at their arrow spine selector so you know what size arrow shafts to buy. Get some fletchtite glue feathers and a fletching jig and you are good to go. The shafts will come with nocks and inserts. I would recommend a right helical fletching jig. They all work great.

[@millenniumfox]

@@SamkoTradBow thanks alot i appreciate the replies and advice

[@mikeneuburger3989]

You don’t have to care about penetration because Dr Ashby did, and it was a cornerstone of his work. So that’s all well and good that you’re not concerned about it, but it’s still a thing 😉

[@SamkoTradBow]

I am concerned about penetration! Thats why I shoot 31% foc!

[@mikeneuburger3989]

Traditional Bowhunting And Wilderness Podcast yeah but you said it like it’s not the main reason you shoot a high foc setup, like it’s an added benefit. It’s the original benefit lol. Either way, love your videos. Keep it up!

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@mikeneuburger3989 been a long time since I made that video so don't remeber exactly. But I do know the flight characteristics are the main reason for me. Those same characteristics also equal better penetration so its win win!

[@mikeneuburger3989]

Traditional Bowhunting And Wilderness Podcast absolutely. And it is damn hilarious to watch the front of an efoc arrow in the wind, dragging the tail along like it’s not even there. I’m about to bareshaft tune for little teeny tiny fletchings. The arrows I’m working on now are 604 grain with 27% foc

[@SamkoTradBow]

@@mikeneuburger3989 very nice! They should fly like darts!