Ashes of Creation Just Changed MMOs Forever | Asmongold Reacts

"Any sufficiently advanced technology, to a WoW player, is indistinguishable from magic."
by ‪@Narc‬ • Ashes of Creation Just...
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[@swinkyy7846]

This is wrong, it's not one mega server, and this is why the original stream should be watched. They never claimed it would be one mega server, otherwise the Node system goes out the window.

[@vexillian]

Right, they even clarified that there would be multiple "Realms". They've been stating this from the beginning that no two realms would be the same. What's meant by "One Realm" is that there's not going to be layering and sharding and whatnot.

[@AjaxOutlaw]

@@vexillianso still multiple servers but within those are even more isolated realms?

[@afailable]

​@@AjaxOutlaw No it's using multiple servers to service each realm. Think of realms like what you currently think a server is. Then that realm is actually running across multiple computers (servers).

[@zerxis654]

@@AjaxOutlaw best way to think of is picture the world getting separated by a grid. Each block in the grid is the server so you are still connected to the realm and can see other players across the grid and interact with them. It allows them to section off the realm to allow for more player numbers. There is much more tech stuff to it but this is the summed up version

[@NeFjuS]

@@AjaxOutlaw Take the "realms" as something that is higher then the servers. Just like you have layers in the server when it comes to wow, there will be servers in the Realm. It consits of servers that see on each other and through each other.

[@Elwendryll]

It's painful how much the concept is misunderstood. There will still be separate servers that you select (called realms). And it is not megaservers like other games like ESO do, because there is no layering. ESO has tons of different instances, and you can travel between the instances but you can't see people in other instances or interact with their characters, you and a friend could be in the same spot in a major city in the open world and not see eachother, unless you fast travel to the other to actually load in the same instance. What this tech does is dynamically splitting the world in sections to have different servers handling the calculations, but everything remains a coherent "realm", no layering, no different channels, whatever. You can seamlessly see and interact with people that are in a different section. And you can move from a section to an other without noticing it. This also means, if a server handling a section crashes. Nobody else is impacted. If hundreds of people are fighting in a bottleneck at the other side of the world, you're not going to lag while picking flowers. And what the dynamic scaling does is that it changes where the sections are drawn based on player density/activity. Big battle suddenly happening in the middle of nowhere away from any point of interest for whatever reason? The sections will be dynamically redrawn and more servers are put online to share the calculations etc ... All of it being totally transparent to the players. The goal is to keep good performance no matter the amount of players and the player density.

[@hagaiak]

Yep. I don't blame them though. They are not software engineers so it makes sense that they don't understand these technical things. The problem is that they try to hype this new tech, when they don't realize that all Interprid wanted to do was just let other programming enthusiasts understand how their networking architecture works under the hood. For the average player all they need to know is that there are separate individual realms, you must select a single realm to create character, and that character will never be able to interact with other realms, and likely won't be able to transfer realms either (will have to create a new character from scratch to start in another realm). Finally, they need to know that there is no layering or other instancing techniques employed within a realm. If someone is standing next to you in your realm, you both will be able to see each other.

[@Elwendryll]

@@hagaiak These technical streams are the most exciting to me. What made me interested about this project is first and foremost how they work on it. The project management, the tech, who they are hiring, the clear communication, etc... Because as far as early access games go, what I need to know to want to spend my time and money on it is that the project is handled well, the people working on it are competent, and that they are very aware of the difficulty and obstacles and are properly equipped to deal with them. This Server Meshing demo has been very good to reassure me that they will be able to handle large scale battles etc...

[@hagaiak]

@@Elwendryll Yes I also enjoyed their presentation about their networking architecture, watched it yesterday. But I'm assuming it's mostly exciting and interesting to Software Engineers or people who are very curious about how things are working under the hood. The average player cannot really understand most of it as it's too technical. And the devs said so as well during the stream, but of course content creators want to generate hype and clicks so you get phrases like "brand new concept called microservices" from content creators, which causes misunderstanding among everyone else.

[@Titi-pu2hl]

dynamic griding is pretty basic, they did not create anything

[@hagaiak]

@@Titi-pu2hl Is that so? Name a game using dynamic server mesh, since it's so basic

[@bennybellum6037]

They won't do a megaserver. They've consistently mentioned that servers (or realms, in this case) will be unique because of how the node system works. If you have one mega server, then this feature doesn't exist.

[@tylanater9433]

Hopefully they're releasing that would never work out realistically and moving away from it. Can't play for the first 3 days for some reason? Too bad, everything is upgraded to max settlement and you'll never see the early stages again. Also the entire game would be run by whoever ends up with the biggest discord group

[@vampuricknight1]

The basic model they demo'd appears to me to be similar at least in some principles shown to planetside 2's hex grid server system which allowed for a large number of players on the same map back in the day and additional servers to work together to create a seamless large scale battle experience. Hopefully this works, i think its more complicated than what I saw which makes me wonder about stability issues and random lag spikes especially when additional servers are needed for an area due to heavy strain, I also question how much time they are going to need for this tech to actually get implemented as again... I suspect this project is still 2 or 3 years away... which could easily turn into 4, 5, or more if things don't go their way.

[@hemmoau]

Wouldn't you still want at least one server per region, just for latency reasons?

[@oessh9611]

@@hemmoauno one wants to playa MMO with a small amount of people. It should be mega server

[@yungsofa8084]

this game would suck ass on a mega server

[@Vauhnn]

my man didnt understand what the server meshing actually is

[@yous2244]

No he does, you're the one who probably doesn't

[@kylerBD]

@@yous2244 No actually, he doesnt. Its not one megaserver.

[@colby8104]

​@@yous2244 no, he doesn't

[@yous2244]

@@Vauhnn watch the previous server meshing video he reacted to people. That way you will probably understand. Don't know If you're even smart enough to do so

[@jdawg3169]

@@yous2244 Bro he is so far off on what is actually happening its insane.

[@DayzOverTV]

AoC isn't a one mega server. This is why it's important to watch the actual video from the company and not second hand. They are using dynamic, meshed servers for larger and more stable player counts in one area (without layering), so the game doesn't lag when there are hundreds of people in a similar space on the map fighting. There will still be multiple realms based on your location (West coast, East coast, EU, Oceania, etc.) that you'll have to log into. It's massively impressive tech, but this is plain misinformation.

[@SuperGoldenHat]

I think what Asmon's biggest gripe with servers is, that even within the same region you have to make a server-choice which locks you into that choice even if the servers population would die in the future, and if you want to move your character, you would have to pay (WoW) or you have would have to start from scratch again on a new server (Most other MMOs). With this type of tech, that aspect of "server choice lock-in", will no longer be a headache for many players and guilds.

[@Ravenbones]

@@SuperGoldenHat Nothing new with any MMO doing that. He plays WoW which does the same thign and he rules out the idea of character transfers that every mmo allows.

[@kwoowoo828]

"Mega server" a term which most game companies referred to is not one physical big server but a virtual 'big' server consisted of many servers and connecting technology underneath it. So AoC's implementation IS a 'mega server', a virtual one. In today's technology, NOBODY I repeat NOBODY use a big physical server for any implementation. All are virtual. We have moved a long way from the mainframe era of one big physical server. The only exception today are those sectors which need excessively huge computing power and they still rely one or two huge super-computers for their computing power. But those are exceptions.

[@vexillian]

@SuperGoldenHat No I think he stated his gripe was basically with layering and sharding. Having two people on the same server in the same location but they're on different layers so they don't see each other.

[@Draga01]

🤔 Don't forget that none of what they talked about is new. Most of these concepts and designs are more than a decade old at this point. The problem is no one in the industry actively teaches these concepts, releases learning material, or provides examples to learn from so everyone ends up reinventing the wheel OVER AND OVER AND OVER. - Meshing, Not new - Dynamic ZoneBoxing/Celling, Not new - Microservices, literally a 2+ decade old concept from Software Engineering regarding APIS and splitting "megalithic" APIs into smaller units of work This whole video seethes with misinformation or fanboism and it's concerning. 😥

[@JonBonazza]

people really need to stop doing informational videos when they have no idea what they are talking about. there is so much misunderstanding and misinformation its honestly incredible how wrong the original video is

[@johndoe-qo8cy]

Clicked off video at 1:50. Its not one realm for the whole game. Please go watch original vid from Intrepid ffs.

[@Nick-jq8tl]

Yeah the original video was significantly more interesting and had actual correct information, not a fan of how Narc presented this info as something he was confident on when he really didn't know what he was talking about and was sort of paraphrasing IS' stream

[@TheMechanicalCoder32]

"A brand new concept known as microservices" made me laugh my aess off. As a software engineer, this is the bogeyman of complexity and projects that move slow as hell, but have the capacity to scale extremely well. They better have world-class engineers on this project.

[@Ranziel1]

Who needs world-class engineers when you don't actually have to deliver a product.

[@Drachencheat]

coming up next year "A brand new concept known as monolith to make the monthly subscription cheaper"

[@volimsir]

Lol, same. I thought the microservice hype died a while back. They make everything more complex and slower. Good luck to them, but I think this is not gonna go well.

[@ZM-dm3jg]

Asmon should waych a video like death by microservices

[@hagaiak]

They have insanely good engineers. You should watch the original video, they explain their networking architecture and server-grid very well. Obviously random non-software people are now trying to summarize the info and have no idea how to do that. They didn't say they invented the concept of "microservices" they just explained how their network architecture looks like.

[@evelynfive5684]

As I heard in their live, they even break the limitation of Unreal Engine single threading limitation to multi-threading with their own way. It's really impressive for me.

[@Felale]

They have multiple Forgelight Engine (Planetside 2) devs here. They come bearing eccentric knowledge.

[@vexillian]

Yeah, I love the line from Anton to paraphrase "I did a little research online and they basically said it was impossible. So we did it anyway." Lol.

[@barahng]

@@Felale Ah, that explains a lot.

[@philwaugh9095]

@@vexillian it was such a boss, mic drop line that so many didn't really catch :)

[@Ranziel1]

They sure say a lot of things.

[@stephenmessana5712]

This is how you bring a genre forward. Next generation tech right here. Even if this game flops it’s attempting to revolutionize the genre and bring it forward rather than copying WoW. Big respect

[@Drakaziel]

I think gw2 had a good solution as well. If you were on an empty layer, you got the prompt to change layers and got awarded exp boost

[@MatthewKelley-mq4ce]

That's a lovely feature in that title.

[@Jim1Dean]

no thats trash man. Its a very poor solution. Intrepid will lset the gold standart 4 all other games

[@echo5827]

Yeah just not immersive and a bit lame when you switch multiple times, or world bosses show up and there's no one there Really I just think the areas were tiny, but if the game was made today that probably wouldn't be an issue. Breaking up the world too much makes it feel like a collection of little levels, but there's so much the world still feels big so

[@Redstripe921]

It doesnt happen that often, the server swapping in gw2​@@echo5827

[@joaaocaampos]

No instancing, no layering and no sharding in AoC. A large number of players in the same world.

[@Felale]

This can certainly be done with the experienced gained from EverQuest and Planetside 2. They have a number of devs from those titles and those were done decades ago. I have high hopes for the technical aspect, hopefully the design aspect doesn't go the way those games went.

[@lazloholyfield9902]

Eve Online has been running on one shard or instance for twenty years. Now don't get it twisted, when there is a massive space battle with thousands of players in one space system, time dilation kicks in, slowing everything down. The company has the ability to add more servers to star systems when there is a big battle going on but it still slows down a lot.

[@echo5827]

Uh cool a point and click adventure text game has one server, if it didn't it'd be dead. Not even worth mentioning Launching 20 missiles in an hour long fight isn't much of an issue for eve's playerbase. They didn't solve the speed of light, ping just doesn't matter in a strategy spreadsheet game

[@banhammer3904]

My experience of time dilation was more like local population spikes, then the game freezes for a few minutes and finally I wake up in the clone vats. Instant death and loss of ship and equipment. I hear rumors that it is a lot better these days but there's no way that those Chinks are getting my money.

[@lazloholyfield9902]

@@banhammer3904 it is a lot better, I have been playing the game for over 10 years, and been in fights with 6000 people, but snafus do happen. The game is worth it, and CCP has been good about giving stuff back whenever those happen. In other words they have responsive customer service.

[@banhammer3904]

@@lazloholyfield9902 I never got any ships refunded from large fleet battles.CCP had a specific policy to not refund ships because it would be admitting their server technology did not work correctly. My alliance didn't have a comprehensive ship replacement program either. After these battle, the rest of my null sec ships were locked away in 9UY station for years. The entire experience was a big fuck you thanks for playing moment but that's the nature of Eve.

[@lazloholyfield9902]

@@banhammer3904 when did you last play?

[@Tihomir21]

Dont watch this....... Watch original 1h video This is Miss leading

[@cashe7536]

your spelling is misleading

[@kubekzpiciem]

AoC is changing mmos forever every couple of months according to asmon

[@TheNiteNinja19]

It makes sense. Most servers for how things are online, is there's a system hypervisor server, then a supervisor for each cluster of servers, so you can have overlapping processing based on how much traffic is on each cluster, allocating resources where it's needed. It's about time games use that overlapping tech too.

[@hemmoau]

I know Runescape has been mentioned a lot recently and it solves this in a great way I reckon, theres a few hundred servers with up to date 2k people each, but your progress is identical on all of them, so if you want to meet a person in another country you just hop to their server in seconds, dont even need to log back in. Edit: though I admit while this is a fantastic solution, it doesn't deliver on the impressive scale of having tens of thousands of players living on the same map.

[@philwaugh9095]

you also have to remember that the actual world itself will be very different from server to server in Ashes. No 2 servers will experience the same game as so much of it is dependent on the activities of the player base. So it's not JUST about population size per server. granted it's MOSTLY about that at the moment. The reactive/living world environment of Ashes will come into play and make it be much much different - and better ;)

[@gimpg5329]

They have said that they Will host 8-10k concurrent players per realm. Also this method wont work in a game like ashes that changes depending on player activity. Its just layers with extra steps…

[@philwaugh9095]

@@gimpg5329 it's not layers, nor is it remotely like layers. Try harder.

[@gimpg5329]

@@philwaugh9095 It is, when you can change back and forth on a whim its essentially the same

[@gimpg5329]

@@philwaugh9095 Whats the point of a changing world, when you can jump between them on a whim? Its basically layers with extra steps. Or whats the difference?

[@MacCrunch]

It's commendable to see MMO developers like them pushing the boundaries and attempting next-generation tech solutions. One realm is indeed a big promise and the anticipation is sky-high.

[@PunkteGaming]

Honestly, Narc kinda of dropped the ball on this explanation/video. He didn't do a good job going over the actual meaningful changes/differences between their tech and a lot of people misunderstood what he said by One Realm. If you read the fine print, one realm has MANY servers, and servers can dynamically get spin up depending on the density of player population within an area.

[@raul_ariel]

Yeah, i think he confused it a bit with star citizen

[@Nevict]

Only the final prpduct will tell us if this game is actually worth of our time.

[@polecat1337]

even the fps in stormwind is ass on cartoon graphics

[@echo5827]

You cannot make a real-time combat game with one server it's physically impossible. There will be regions until someone figures out how to break the speed of light

[@Billy-bc8pk]

You should definitely check out how CIG has solved this problem with their object containers and the replication layer.

[@walterwalker2978]

they're gonna keep making new mmo tech, selling the tech, and never releasing the game. its valve all over again

[@winyonzentrada]

Ashes of creations and star citizen, both seem to share the same kind of ambition and forever in production. See you in 20 years.

[@ibervang]

But the game will have multiple servers. It just won't have layers like wow. Meaning if you go to a spot where there are other players, you will see all of those players

[@Olivysg]

Can't believe an unreleased MMO completely changed and evolved the genre for the 7th time.

[@bilateriannewt4222]

None of MMOs for last 15 years had so many groundbreaking ideas like AoC, half of which already done

[@NovemberX]

find one zealot. can't wait to see it turns out mediocre af. gRoUnDbReAkInG IdEaS LOL

[@bilateriannewt4222]

@@NovemberX mediocre is already better than existing "popular" mmos

[@emptywhy]

@@NovemberX Will you cry if it turns out great?

[@emptywhy]

@@nelflover8909 Based on what exactly is it highly unlikely?

[@HangerHangar]

Dual Universe tried doing this the same way. Led to lots of item duplication bugs, doubling harvest/mining bugs, and cases where you could have different people in the same spot on "duplicated and different" terrain servers.

[@BesteWare]

10 years ago Chris Roberts already said he would implement dynamic server meshing with Star Citizen and he is still not done. His starting budget was 12 million. Ashes of creation has only 3 million and they want to do the same...

[@jeremybolt8950]

No comments, comments fell off

[@guyfromdubai]

No replies to comment, commenter fell off

[@user-kc5qi2oy1j]

Falling off fell off.

[@unnoun2317]

no falling ,falling fell off

[@codygaudet8071]

took fall damage, still falling

[@fancypants2182]

Falling fell so much that falling fell

[@chrisunderhill8853]

well star citizen has been working on server meshing for nearly 10 years.. wonder how long it will be for ashes?

[@resresres1]

Ashes has to deal with orders of magnitude less entities, so I would assume it should be easier. A lot of Star Citizens development regarding this has had to deal with things unrelated to the server meshing tech itself. Such as having to develop an automatic heirarchical entity graph tied to objects, which makes it far more efficient to transfer an object that could be made up of hundreds or even thousands of entities from 1 server to the next.

[@Kantirant]

3:59 here we can witness asmon trying to resist the ghost posessing him, he succeded

[@grisha2919]

Haha😂😂

[@mrtoestie2707]

Try Finger, But Hole

[@stevehaney344]

Sounds like a pain in the ass.

[@Psycorde]

Do an Ethan Ralph

[@TDKPyrostasis]

Eve online is one big server for everyone and has been since the get go.We frequently have 1000 player + battles. The large ones 1000 + players are handled by something called time dilation where time slows down and actions are queued up. Not a perfect solution by any means, but it works.

[@whytho1690]

That's some big brain strats right there. Technically impressive.

[@Mr.Heller]

I want a system like thst in EVE, big pp battles are sometimes as laggy as they were 20 years ago.

[@Mucknuggle]

they do, they just run into communication issues between the mashed servers and the player when you have 10-20k clients involved as every client requieres the informations of every other client. at some point youre bottlenet becomes the internet connection itself.

[@metsatroll]

I've waited for like 8 years for this game, i don't expect it to come out before another 8

[@candykisslolol]

By the time this game comes out no one will be playing mmo's anymore.

[@driocku]

Darkfall had one big server over a decade ago

[@PiKangNa]

Yeah, but it was really laggy for us in north Europe.

[@LizardonXY]

Wasn’t expecting another example of server meshing 👀 this is amazing, I hope all major online games start utilizing similar tech

[@Mucknuggle]

they do, the oldest example is EvE online... utilizing it for 18++ years ...

[@EchoedMemories]

If it actually works. Sounds great on paper, but let's see how it actually does

[@randomdude8544]

​@@Mucknuggleexcept Eve online isn't utilizing similar tech of server meshing as star citizen or ashes of Creation

[@Aztaable]

@@Mucknuggle Same basic idea for SM, but not the same exact implementation. CIG's version will be very different. Don't confuse static server meshing with dynamic, as they work very differently. There is no other game out there that has dynamic server meshing as CIG wants to build it.

[@Aztaable]

@LizardonXY We will see more and more studios utilizing this tech in the coming years and decades for sure. Especially for MMOs or other big multiplayer games. It will be a game changer imo, and open up some new possibilities in the gaming industry.

[@theGn0rp]

Guys, it isnt one megaserver. There will be different realms/worlds, the worldmap in those worlds is seperated by a grid. Each grid on that map has its own server taking care of all the data and calculations. That way there's less load on the one server taking care of the calculations for the whole world. To put into perspective, imagine there's one server taking care of the data of the entire worldmap. All the way in the north there's a 300vs300 battle and all the way south there's a seperate 300vs300 battle. ONE server has to calculate both fights which causes load/stress on that server. Now imagine both battles had a seperate server doing the calculations, so one server for the battle up north and one for the battle down south. The two servers split the workload, making it so there's less stress on one server. -- The whole map is divided by those grids, different servers will be responsible for calculating a different 'grid' in the worldmap, dividing the workload instead of putting all the workload onto one server.

[@rpgguy7429]

So what this actually means is that there will be multiple realms and you create your character on one. That realm will be made up of many servers in a grid across the world that are seamless to the player. There wont be layers or shards to seperate the playerbase so theoretically everyone can all go to one point on the map. This will feel more like a "megaserver" than something that only allows 60 players in a layer in a zone. In the end what asmon wants is one massive server and so far that's not going to happen.

[@mtdominik]

"I hope this game is gonna be fun" Every single MMO player before every single MMO release

[@catwhite7754]

I think gamer are passed the phase of "excited for the promise of nothing". I wish they made it, however if this is possible, others big games may already tried it. Just wait and see when it come out.

[@zelphermm]

11 years in alpha and people still think this game is gonna release.

[@blunderswish7121]

Dynamic server meshing is the end goal for any "many players on screen" game. This technical challenge is mostly "How to work around the server bandwidth limit for exchanging information with other servers while still being performant on the player side." Remember that they want 100s of players in combat + NPCS + crafting nodes + every other system working on screen. And 1 server needs to run well while process all that info from every nearby server, and sharing it's own info with those same servers. Throwing more servers at the issue just means overloaded bandwidth. So you need to be ridiculously smart in limiting info that is transferred between servers to replicate, while having all the necessary info be transferred. And even if they crack it for Ashes that does not mean other games will be able to utilize it since it will be built entirely around their games needs.

[@RoketNek]

So Star Citizen had like $712,746,168 att founding and they still can't use Server Meshing, and these guys already have a version 2.0 of Server Meshing? Surely one of them is lying.

[@mbg4681]

Surely you can't believe that Chris Roberts would ever _lie,_ can you?

[@momsspaghetti9571]

@@mbg4681 You are aware this isnt server meshing at all right? These "Realms" are basically servers that you gotta choose while creating yoru character realms = separate servers they've talked about it on their stream its basically jump on the hype from players about server tech its gonna flop as soon as people see what exactly that tech is for aoc

[@mbg4681]

@@momsspaghetti9571 That a really long "yes", or a really long "no"?

[@Billy-bc8pk]

They already have used server meshing. They did multiple public server meshing tests already and did a dev diary on the results this past thursday. CIG's version of server meshing functions quite well and will be widely public with 4.0.

[@mbg4681]

@@Billy-bc8pk Okay, so is that a reeeaaalllyyy llooonnngggg "yes", or a a reeeaaalllyyy llooonnngggg "no"?

[@oybeutu]

Alpha 2 was $250 and that included 6 momths playtime. Not sure what else.

[@philwaugh9095]

Also a bunch of cosmetics and other stuff along those lines. Another group of content creators broke it down a while back and determined that the value Intrepid had used for just the A2 key was about $60 at the time, so I'm expecting this A2 only key to be somewhere from $60-$100 range, if I had to guess. Pure speculation on my part though. We'll know hard facts sometime this month.

[@user-ov5rb7hn4p]

Yeah, just keep throwing money to these scammers, lol

[@lightworker2956]

Yeah, but that's like saying that a game that has an incredibly expensive edition that costs $150, actually costs $150. Ashes isn't officially out yet, it's not selling copies of its game yet in the normal way.

[@user-ov5rb7hn4p]

@@lightworker2956 games that have expensive editions are actually games, playable and real. This on the other hand is not and they taking people's money for promises only, a lot of money actually. So yeah, early access/Kickstarter scam, nothing more

[@philwaugh9095]

@@lightworker2956 it won't be for sale. Sub only, no initial purchase. At least as it stands now.

[@maliphuslocksport1290]

Evs online had what 5000 players fighting in single battle in same system but they use time dilation to make sure everything is correctly applied at snail pace not optimal solution.

[@destroymax2033]

its not one mega server, its just that each known server wont have layers and will be divided into seamless mini servers (geographically located in the map) in order to redistribute processing way more efficiently, which will enable massive fights with minimum delay and lag. And thats all summarized.

[@carlover4239]

Honestly this game looks incredibly promising.

[@shazmodeus2795]

This is literally what the Ark developers did with their offshoot game Atlas. The single map was divided into 24ish servers meshed together. It wasn't as seamless as these guys are showing in their presentation. In Atlas you'd come to the edge of the server square and sail through a grey fog wall and appear on the other side in the next server.

[@monody]

Fun fact, Ultima Online used server meshing in it's server architecture.

[@RyanJohnson818]

Dark Age of Camelot had this in the sense that every server had a frontier where the three fractions bordered. These fights could have the entire server fighting at once. Obviously it was laggy as hell, but I hoped it would survive WoW's obsession with instancing everything

[@Felale]

I want to give money to game companies who are willing to innovate and provide a good experience.

[@Logini228]

I just hope it won't cost 100+ dollars every month to play

[@stickyrubb]

@@Logini228 15

[@rjswas]

15

[@flame4864]

I'm all in favor of one giant server, but I will have to say there are some objections. I know Moon Guard in wow's been having some problems with sharding. Basically, whenever there's an event taking place, it usually happens in Stormwind, and the most amount of roleplaying going on is also in Stormwind. As a result, roleplayers complain about not being able to see their friends in the server because the realm randomly assigns certain people to different layers. It's a nuanced problem, which has resulted in appealing to Blizzard to turn off sharding on individual realms. It's kind of interesting though. Sharding makes it easier for servers to hold lots of people, but it also stops people from being able to interact with people that they know. Adding more to the single-player aspect that wow is known for.

[@GltchyMod]

one realm economy, one realm player pool for any type of group content. phasing in and out of where ever your party member is/you are. thats such a huge win for an MMO.

[@metamon2704]

GW2 already has this ever since release as do many other mmo's - there are no "servers" you log into, you log into the game and you get put in an "dynamic layer" with other people - everyone on the server can't be in the same place, it's simply not possible.

[@latjolajban81]

What server mshing is trying to solve is to be able to have everyone in one big "mega server".No layering.

[@joaaocaampos]

No loading screen, no instancing, no layering and no sharding in AoC. A large number of players in the same world.

[@latjolajban81]

@@joaaocaampos Impressive. How big is the map and playable area compared to SC?

[@drake.o]

as someone who enjoys star citizen, this video sounds exactly like how i can see someone describing that game

[@lonewulf0328]

I hope that whatever APIs they are gonna be feeding/serving player data above the main servers can handle the traffic. At least the nice thing about microservice architecture is that it scales up or down horizontally without any issue, assuming your replica orchestration is working as intended.

[@TwistedFire85]

Will it be able to be possible to walk the server mesh boundaries and glitch/lag hack like back in the day? UO comes to mind when people would zig zag back and forth so spells and animals chasing them would miss and deaggro

[@Sherwin657]

I want to full dive

[@funtik0609]

In Alpha? 😂

[@wardragon1261]

Eve Online has always been one server, and has been out for 20+ years

[@SkillzthatKillz2011]

because it has 20 players

[@MysticTroll]

​@@SkillzthatKillz2011gottem

[@BossesDream]

its not just one server though for AoC, its multiple servers talking to the other servers. If one server can handle 3000 players by itself, then 50 can host one world, 150,000 players in real time right next each other. No hopping, no layers. It's akin to having 10 different computers hooked up to each other to play 1 game.

[@Mucknuggle]

@@SkillzthatKillz2011 yes but each of those players use 800 clients simultaniously.

[@SkillzthatKillz2011]

@@Mucknuggle so about as much as a runescape private server

[@LieutenantMerks]

This shit is going to be like EverQuest Next where they just keep adding the big new gizmo or gadgets and the game never released.

[@TheGeist1]

I'll be dead before any REAL version of this game comes out...

[@buddah3414]

I don't see servers to be much of a problem more so being restricted to a server, runescape world's ( servers ) are done perfectly. You can hop servers with a single click.

[@im1085]

That would ruin this game lol

[@hagaiak]

You will not be able to hop between different realms in Ashes. There won't even be a payed option to do that. That would ruin the point of the node system and the entire game.

[@marrictheriein8496]

@@hagaiak Cant wait to be stuck on a dead server because of this node system

[@hagaiak]

@@marrictheriein8496 Imagine being mad a game is not made for you

[@an2c615]

Ashes of Creation is promising way more than they can deliver, like Age of Conan. Remember Age of Conan? Yea, that's what I thought.

[@immorttalis]

Getting the same vibes from this.

[@snekkers1609]

well, dynamic meshing is already working, and was working in last node wars stream. So they prob can deliver it. And they never promised one megaserver, cuz it wont be one megaserver

[@hagaiak]

It already works.

[@ItsOctoberr]

@@hagaiak On games with very little play base.

[@hagaiak]

@@ItsOctoberr Right, but the parent comment made it sound as if this network architecture wouldn't work, and we have proof it does. Optimizing it further and making sure it handles entire realms is not that big of a difference. Especially because the servers in the mesh are independent. If they can show 200 players in the same area fighting, then it doesn't affect any other server in the world map, so that's proof that it works.

[@sleihbeggey1992]

What the average person is going to struggle to understand is just how much better data transfer rates are now vs when they last enjoyed an MMO. It's a coding and logistical nightmare to get it running smoothly but it's objectively 'possible' sooner or later someone will pull it off

[@GwiezdnaKantyna]

So Ashes of Creation will have multiple star systems with multiple planets? If not then why are you saying it bigger than Star Citizen?

[@Amplifymagic]

Last time I was this early Asmon had hair

[@colby8104]

Last time i checked, people say this on every video.

[@philwaugh9095]

@@colby8104 traditions are important 🤣

[@saurlex1368]

Steven said early on, and over time with the node system that every server would have a different world experience due to it's dynamic nature. With 1 realm/server that seems like a big design flip.

[@brambl3014]

Your comment is stolen by bot lol and the bot's comment is now the top comment lol

[@scottm.3901]

its not 1 realm/server, i didnt watch this video but i watched the actual aoc video but this system is designed not for 1 mega server but for multiple servers as planed but allowing there to be 100's of people in a area with minimal lag

[@ozijak]

Asmon saw one realm and misunderstood. There are multiple servers.

[@mikeyhope7577]

This game is literally turning into its own version of Star Citizen. Increase scale increase scale, never actually finishing anything and just adding more and more years to development for the game to seemingly charge insane prices for stuff (in this case alpha and beta access which is hilarious) and then never seem to actually come out.

[@jonathanchristo9138]

This world better be big or else its going to feel like disneyland

[@TheShugoBR]

so.... basically how Guild Wars 2, finally someone took the good idea from the others that do it right, this looks like Guild Wars 3

[@guardianlamb9962]

umm no..gw2 has instances within worlds

[@TheShugoBR]

@@guardianlamb9962 no.... everyone on NA play on the same instance to a certain number of players before creating another instance for that map, but doesn't matter what server you play, if is NA you play with all other servers on NA, if is EU you play with all the other EU servers, in the same instance, that makes the game feels alive and you are always connecting to an instance with a lot of other players.

[@Jim1Dean]

AoC will save the MMO genre. I can't wait until they announce the A2 release date on July 26th

[@Podokodo23]

Unlike Star citizen AOC can skip the replication layer because it does not have to track millions of physicalized objects over billions of sq Km, all with their own physics. The way AOC wants to do SM is kinda SC lite. Still very cool tech and I'm glad that these "indy" company's are attempting making this new tech work. These are very different approach's to static/dynamic server meshing though.

[@fr3akyniv3k]

Asmon should have seen the original stream this time... It's not a simple topic and AoC staff explained it really well.

[@danross1038]

It's going to have a crazy amount of players for 1 month, then be completely forgotten like every other modern mmo.

[@elCamo12]

autoscaling and mmo can go hand in hand... but i think having EVERYONE on one server will be a non-technical issue. people will start to hate sharing an overworld with literally everyone else

[@TheNewton]

Everyone wanting the dream of a fantasy MMO that exists as one single world for all players to exist in. But this is not it, this is still separate servers|realms.

[@Spacko]

I mean Eve does this well, one server held together with duct tape 😂

[@TheNiteNinja19]

**Time dilation intensifies**

[@awerp9ioug8]

fundamentally different systems. If you want to see what something like this can look like, look up scavlabs player test.

[@Aztaable]

That doesn't sound like they do this well. Also a different implementation of the tech. Static server meshing is not like dynamic server meshing.

[@gankstrap]

@@Aztaable also eve uses a 32bit game engine not 64bit, people like to throw what they hear on comments and they're literally clueless about what they talk lmao

[@mubris9705]

There has been one huge misunderstanding here xD This has nothing to do with only being 1 server.

[@randomdude8544]

His terminology of server is just referring to the game world as a whole. Not an actual server.

[@mubris9705]

@@randomdude8544 I know. It's not the case at all.

[@randomdude8544]

@@mubris9705 went and watched the dev video, very well done explanation. Recommend it to anyone who likes indepth networking stuff.

[@Christian_Bagger]

It’s weird to me, that private servers were/are able to have no region restrictions, but Blizzard ain’t able to do that.

[@tolitojames5468]

This game will NEVER come out

[@Aviaryyy]

When is he gonna finish ffxiv?

[@NVNNN]

Everybody hopes never

[@alexleet7612]

@@NVNNN "Sayings of the gods when it came to talking about your descendants"

[@fistazombie4924]

It's not even on Steam, they should at least list the game on Steam.

[@ainternet239]

It‘s in alpha

[@EasytheGoon]

Your gonna wait years for this

[@marushall263]

@@EasytheGoon i fit even comes out. seeing as the alpha isnt doing to good

[@Ashen_Night116]

@@marushall263 Yeah, people are fucking insane to think that this game is actually going to go anywhere. The alpha is in such a ungodly awful state that I don't think the game would be ready for another decade like Star Citizen.

[@Reippa]

@@Ashen_Night116 This game is scam.

[@dimruby]

I have never been on an over-populated server and thought "I wish there was less people". While some aspects of an over-populated server might make things more difficult, there are also aspects that become easier. I've played WoW on private servers with 15k populations or higher, and they are so much fun.

[@Ryshmosh]

Cannot believe it.. The game that never was already changed MMOs 4ever

[@toms7114]

The client side (your computer) should be doing all the rendering. The server shouldn't do any of the graphical computations, ever.

[@looklatempete]

why?

[@LamNguyen-ls1pi]

Actually they don't, but server still have to calculate position of everything that dynamic, information of what everybody carrying so client can render them. Sever calculate, give and receive data, not render anything, but millions upon millions of data being sent, receive in one second is hard to handle

[@toms7114]

@@looklatempete Short answer, money. Long answer is a conversation about computational efficiency and bandwidth use.

[@yous2244]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard lol. Even a Rtx 9080 wouldn't be able to do that. You'd need a Super Computer

[@Drachencheat]

Thats just wrong. There is a sea of reasons why servers should do graphical computations. U have an usecase and decide if that usecase is worth the cost. Saying a server should never do that is just ignorant for the reality

[@oberver1014]

Expect this silly game to come out in 2030

[@Isingyoudie073]

How optimistic of you

[@heroman1322]

@@Isingyoudie073 2032 then?

[@Kngly1]

​@@heroman1322More Like early 2026

[@DxBlack]

sIlLy hurrhurr 🤪

[@exhalete]

I really want this game to succeed. After stopping MMO's with only having played vanilla wow and burning crusade, I was hoping for something to finally peak my interest and be worth my time. This game is it for sure.

[@keli557]

This is basically what NW is doing right now without doing Sharding.

[@momofighter3211]

Ashes of Creation is our last hope!!!!

[@marushall263]

its a shit game now. what makes you think this will make it betterr

[@trojancs16]

Hopes that are going to fade quickly!

[@ToshaDCary]

Wasn’t expecting another example of server meshing this is amazing, I hope all major online games start utilizing similar tech

[@Akirathedon92]

Posted 5 minutes ago, girl in a bikini, stolen comment. Yup. its a bot.

[@IncognitoActivado]

Bot.

[@anshukandulna1844]

Autobots roll out

[@Zach-rw6jf]

It's not going to be "everyone on one single realm". His edit of the slideshow made it a bit misleading. The slide read "One Realm - Many Servers" and they discussed how each "Realm" will be made up of many servers so that they will not require "Layering". I.e. If a Realm (named server) consists of 10,000 players, then all 10k players are playing together and can all see each other, instead of their own instanced layers of, say, 50 to 100 players, which in other games requires you to "switch channels" to play with a friend who may be in the same area but on a different layer. There will in fact be many different Realms (named servers). That's not to take away from how awesome this is still going to be. The ability to have EVERYONE on a Realm play together, with dynamic server gridding, allowing ultra-high player density, is going to be amazing. Imagine a literal 1,000 players participating in a Node war (and being actually playable). That's the place we're getting to.

[@williamlaprarie3007]

One virtual dynamic realm with multiple servers working merged together, this makes sense. And because they are dynamic they constantly shift and change based on population. Basically a far more advanced version of seemless zoning.

[@MrAlus3]

It's funny how they reinvent something that was done over a decade ago and sell it as new, same with Starcitizen.

[@lesliescottw]

you clearly know nothing lol go check sc version of it

[@stephenmessana5712]

Isn’t the proprietary or new part of it the way that they can dynamically change the gridding? So one grid (server) if overloaded with players will dynamically turn into multiple servers in that area to lighten the load on each slice of the grids (servers)

[@gankstrap]

yeah static limited server mesh on a 32 bit game engine it's clearly the same as a dynamic server mesh on a 64 bit game engine, just sfu about things you don't know

[@anon-san2830]

"Intrepid has made a brand new concept called Micro services".... So... What was it that I was working daily with for many many long years at work??? 😢

[@stickyrubb]

@@anon-san2830 They did not mean to say that. A developer corrected himself after the stream by saying that it essentially works somewhat like a microservice, but is not really one.

[@stickyrubb]

@@anon-san2830 if this really is in your ballpark, you'd enjoy the actual video itself.

[@Frostwars]

@@stickyrubb Are these the same developers that think a standard mesh topology comes with a replication service? A standard mesh just has all nodes in the network communicate with one another. I'd forgive the dev fucking up on a livestream, if it wasn't for all the other basic fuckups that are present in their own slides made beforehand. They also ignored the fact that a replication service is also able to scale with a mesh topology, and isn't going to be bandwidth restricted like they claimed. Lots of odd information from that livestream.

[@jeremygarcia7605]

The amount of exploits or death by desync on the borders of those grids will be hillarious

[@KapitanObvious]

in AoC you have character on land. In CS you have character. 1)On a land 2)Underland 3)In scape 4)character inside of ships -You move ships with character -You move ships with others characters You move you items as a phyzical ipem that is visible for everyone. Tha is object streaming. AoC tech and SC tech is like windows calculator vs NASA super computer

[@Janny890]

I searched up that they’ll be charging $15/a month for the game. It better be the best MMORPG ever with no technical issues whatsoever bruh.

[@deano93517]

$15 dollars a month is nothing. I bought games worth 60 70 dollars just to regret. Buy it for a month you dont like it cancel it. Its way better like this.

[@jdawg3169]

15 a month is standard for MMOs.

[@e56hdyhdfgh]

I pretty much agree, but I always find it funny how vigilantly against a sub fee people are, when so many of them are buying other random crap in game stores, season passes, etc. for even higher prices. The fact WoW still gets away with one, on top of having every other monetization avenue known to man, is equally hilarious...

[@chuggynation8275]

WoW makes you pay for the game plus a sub fee and the game is a complete joke and millions still pay.... Ashes will only have a sub fee they don't ask you to pay a box price like WoW does.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

@@e56hdyhdfgh B ecause if you pay 70 bucks for something and don't use it for a couple of months, it's still there. But every month you pay for something you don't use, you lose it. I've bought dozens of games years ago, and I can still boot them up right now and play them -- I haven't lost anything. But if I paid for Ashes of Creation for a whole year but didn't have time to play it, and let my sub run out, I can't hop on and play it the next year without re-subbing. So that's 180 bucks down the drain.