Ashes of Creation the WoW Killer? | Honest Review

In this video instead of reviewing every single system or bug that I encountered during my playtime in Alpha II, I will instead tell you all how ashes of creation has brought back the MMOs of old. Does this mean it can answer the two decade old question: Will it kill World of Warcraft?

[@patrickobrienstr]

This video earned a sub. Great stuff I want to hear more AOC content from you!

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Thanks! WIll do my friend.

[@KidandVan]

@@GameMusingsWithRaziel Ditto, really well put together. Looking forward to hearing and seeing more

[@returnofCrusade]

I started playing EQ when it first came out. Was part of some of the greatest event, including first kill of Ventani. I have played so many other MMOs, but over the years it just seems like MMOs have lost the magic. Now that I have been playing AoC alpha, I feel like there is a small flicker of magic returning. I'm staying up all night to play, then waking up in the morning to get a couple of hours in before work. When the servers are down, I feel like I'm a drug addict going through withdrawals.

[@williamlaprarie3007]

Thats why they called it evercrack

[@Tylerrawley]

Same! Lol stopped playing EQ after PoP, and wow during lich king.... Ashes reminds of both!

[@Pygmalion1.6]

the only magic is from Pantheon Rise of the Fallen EA the 13th and on Steam the best MMorpg I played in 15 years..And I did a lot too !!! AOC you are just in Honeymoon and you will realize soon that this game has nothing to offer and it is just a pit of toxic pvp players You want to feel again; the sensation of adventure ? stress? danger? Social game? exploration? difficulty ? you like EQ ?? Pantheon is just for YOU !!

[@Tylerrawley]

@Pygmalion1.6 I GENUINELY hope you are you wrong 🤞

[@marloncebo242]

You are just an addict looking for their next hit. Time to grow up.

[@davidsumpter4933]

I really enjoyed your commentary on Ashes. Sometimes, it's hard to wait, which I haven't felt in a long time. See ya in game...

[@Ruthos01]

I’m loving the Ashes alpha. The grind really brings out good memories of my old FFXI days

[@mrgash06]

I forgot how trash layering was until I played Ashes, where your reputation matters and are encouraged to be social, like any MMO should be.

[@skyridercommendor6303]

This is by fare the best Review i seen of this ALPHA caps wass neeedet as 80% think it is a game.! How nice to listen to a objective review ! Thanks ❤

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Thank you! More coming my friend.

[@KenrikStarling]

Is Ashes of Creation going to be the next WoW killer? No. The only WoW killer is Blizzard and potentially whoever handles Blizzard i.e. Microsoft.

[@Strategic_Warlord]

"The only WoW killer is Blizzard". Truer words have never been said 😂

[@bloodcum4071]

WoW has been dead. They're just raping it's lifeless body at this point.

[@jinglyjones1677]

Truer words have rarely been repeated more than this line

[@mm_rocha1909]

True. If ashes PVE gets better over time, maybe it would be able to compete with blizzard itself for the wow killer title lol

[@ridmiIy]

Very wise take, as a fellow gamer, its a rarity these days to hear your POV. Im glad people like us still exist. we will make AOC Amazing. for us.

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Thank you my friend. I agree.

[@TheNEPTY]

This is the mmo to save the genre.

[@DumaJenkins]

Biggg UO player here, I agree with you 100000% on everything you're saying thus far at 7 mins. Biggg UO player here, you've convinced me to buy the game. Subbed!

[@DumaJenkins]

Just got to pvp i love it

[@TeBeezY]

I really like the way you present your videos. Mind telling us what server you're going with on the 20th?

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Appreciate it! I have not decided yet. What about you?

[@nathanwheelock3813]

@@GameMusingsWithRaziel Rezna here

[@waffleswafflson3076]

In the end the true WoW killer was WoW. Final Fantasy had a higher player count for a few months in Shadowlands.

[@miriamweller812]

No, it never had. You look on made up numbers on websites who just look up reddit activitiy and then multiply it by whatever. FF14 does not even have the server capacity because Square is incredible greedy. They got less than 10%(!) of the servers that WoW is running, even though they deseperately need more for the housing problem alone. Instead Square is exploiting the problem and forces player to stay subbed or they louse their house in FF14 and everything inside.

[@lilmister]

subscribed after 6min, well done.

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Appreciate it friend.

[@shawn6336]

One thing, AoC has never had its sights on WoW. Essentially comparing apples to oranges.

[@zdiggidy6565]

Could this be it...could this be what I have been waiting for all along.

[@jebidyah]

100% agree, been playing since before alpha II launch, it has been making massive progress every week, and is fun af to play even in Alpha.

[@TheToledoTrumpton]

The only thing I didn't agree with was your statement that the game will be a niche game. I think there will be a broad range of varying PvE and PvP content with the rewards balanced with the risk. From PvP on the high seas, where you can get the best rewards, but also face the highest risk, to running around in your node gathering crafting mats and doing low difficulty, low risk, group PvE, protected by the corruption system, and maybe as many as 20 other clear alternatives with matching risk/reward, that is your choice, and there should be something for everyone.

[@dontmatter1368]

The intro gets me every time, but thats because i know the man that follows it RazielHype Glad you're enjoying it and vibing even in its far from finished state. Will try to make more of an effort to catch the yt streams, especially if the RP Soul Reaver is around the corner 😆 ~chester

[@BillProfit5433]

Raz I support all the content you make. You never disappoint. keep up the awesome work. AOC looks good and glad on how it being built so far. Plus, if the dev listens to player feedback it should help as well.

[@12lippylucy]

I agree the combat is solid in AoC, im having a blast testing it.

[@miriamweller812]

Completely different game in the end and with the PvEvP focus very niche. While - when done well - it got the potential to have a number of players, it's unlikely to ever bring in millions, especially long term and the whole focus on guilds/alliances which will dominate the servers as it is now, will definetely shoo away many.

[@DoingFavors]

niche is fine, it doesn't need millions to survive.

[@Gremguitar]

I'm so hyped for this. Great review.

[@hunter24seven]

The grind will keep it from ever being a WOW killer. It will turn off a large portion of the WOW audience. Who knows, maybe they will tweak the exp gains. Grouping helps, but it took a lot of time for me to hit 25.

[@GaioSonase]

It really can't have taken you that much time if you've hit it already, the game's only been on for a matter of days.

[@TheRewindSession]

if you played wow vanila. leveling was actually pretty similar to aoc leveling right now and i think thats what made wow vanila one of the most played mmo in history. because every level back in vanila matters. whenever you level up you go to ur trainer and upgrade ur lower level spell or skills and for me thats what made me love vanila wow. now in retail, u could literraly max level ur character in a matter of hours. is that the kinda game you want to play? then just play retail wow lol

[@Dereliction2]

WoW, at its earliest, was also a sandbox because of how the players engaged it. Rolling PvP engagements in the open world were normal, with the only incentive being denial of location -- but that was enough. It wasn't until later that players started to settle into "theme park" mode as WoW attracted a larger audience who weren't veterans of the genre's earlier days.

[@miriamweller812]

WoW open world pvp was either griefing or zerging and that without much of importance by the game itself. Not compareable at all with what AoC is planning that got a massiv focus on PvP even when it comes to the PvE parts.

[@marloncebo242]

Wow was never a sandbox mmo. Even at release.

[@Dereliction2]

@@marloncebo242 The way early players engaged with it (and each other), was, at least on PvP servers.

[@marloncebo242]

@Dereliction2 no. EverQuest had pvp servers with world pvp. And nobody ever referred to that game as a sandbox mmo. Same goes for UO. A tale in the desert was a good example of a sandbox mmo at the time.

[@Dereliction2]

@@marloncebo242 I did not say WOW was a sandbox. I said that the way early players engaged it was like a sandbox. They came up with goals and motives of their own, such as razing villages and patrolling regions to keep opposing players from being able to quest/farm/etc. In that respect, players functioned as though they were a sandbox, with player driven events and outcomes taking precedence over WoW's themepark structures.

[@ZapatosVibes]

Can't kill a game that has been dead in the water since it came out of vanilla... at least for sandbox and old-school MMO enjoyers.

[@cyrusmagnus]

Well hey, sounds like you'll enjoy it. So surely some other people will enjoy it as well. It's a shame the game has taken so long to make. I'm super looking forward to PoE 2!!! YEEEEEEEEE

[@williamlaprarie3007]

Everquest 3 and archeage 2 coming out innanfew years as well.😮

[@AszkalonOfVerra]

Dear Game Musings With Raziel, to be fair World of Warcraft is *"also"* about to kill itself. The Storyline since Battle for Azerite got worse and worse every Expansion. *"LEGION"* was the last, true Warcraft Expansion. These People deserve to go broke after what they did.

[@miriamweller812]

Pretty sure you got zero clue of WoW story line and lore.

[@wollyram6248]

Ashes certainly has my curiosity, I do hope the devs stick to their guns.

[@VizerPS]

great take. i'm gonna play both modern WoW and try this game hoping i have a blast, but i have no illusions that WoW is anything like an oldschool MMO anymore. i play it because it's like a lobby for various challenging team-based activities that are not at all socially driven. i mythic raid and it's social but not in the "let's work together to survive and explore the world" way, or even the "let's share resources and get stronger to beat the other guilds" way i definitely loved and miss the true MMO era. my first one was ragnarok online in like 2000, and my strongest memory in that game was sitting around regenerating hp and mana at the entrance to a cave where everyone gathered to regen safely before going out to grind again. pubescent me made friends and learned to get along with people there but ragnarok online is anime bullshit from korea which explains why i did not become as handsome, talented, magnanimous, or based as raziel

[@RepublicOrder]

Was pretty sure WoW had already killed itself... its nowhere where it once was due to all its past drama, activision and so forth

[@miriamweller812]

99,9% of games which they would be as dead as WoW. It's just absurd what people say about a game with constantly millions(!) of active players and that after 20 years. Most games don't even manage a single millions, especially not for more than a few monthes.

[@EldgardHammerheart-m9g]

It's still better than Xiv. Wahaha.

[@zeeshanish1]

Are you playing a tank? How has it been so far? I am worried leveling with a tank would be very slow

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

I have indeed for the first phase. It was very slow at the start, but once you hit 10 it speeds up. If you find a party it will always go faster. For Phase 2 Ill likely play a fighter to test that out further.

[@zeeshanish1]

@@GameMusingsWithRaziel I will start in Phase 2 aswell and I am so confused between Fighter and Tank. I like them both but I will mainly play for guild/wars so I think Tank will be better but than I see people playing fighter and it looks so badass

[@VizerPS]

i love that unstructured PvP is punishing to the initiator. back when classic WoW came out, it was still the social contract, reputation on the server, and maybe even a code of honor / respect that kept PvP in check. people were still not fully able to feel the power of their anonymity on the internet. most people (griefers excluded) didn't want to be stigmatized because doing that in real life meant you'd have no friends but now everyone's so used to the internet and "we'll never meet again anyway" that you can't rely on the social contract alone to prevent hours-long, large-scale griefing. back in the early 2000s you could also reason that griefing wouldn't last THAT long, because eventually people have to log off and eat dinner, or go to school/work the next day. but now the internet's crawling with gremlins. devising an ingame punishment that makes unstructured PvP/ganking unappealing to the attacker is a perfect compromise. you still CAN be an asshole, but like the social ostracism of the past, it's not free

[@mazmundie]

you can PvP in citys btw, we have all out guild wars in them

[@Azazel226]

My understanding is that this is true only for guilds actively at war with one another.

[@mazmundie]

@Azazel226 I've done it in other conditions. Not just guild wars

[@ZapatosVibes]

Secret of Mana pog

[@ApolloMCXI]

This mmorpg gives me hope for the genre. I'm over seasonal models and battlepasses.

[@Azazil-o4b]

I agree. I look at Ashes as the next step

[@ZapatosVibes]

One thing I hope to never see in Ashes is daily quests and timegated content.

[@ExpatTalesPH]

Cute Doge in the background.

[@rekyks2220]

Nobody ever brings up Shadowbane!

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Haha I remember that game.

[@ebabil8273]

Ashes NEVER claimed to be a "wow killer" Steven always said, it's not a game for everyone.

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

This is exactly what I say in the video.

[@Kinvesu]

F that, I'm soloing from day 1 in this B. I don't care if it takes me 4 years to get to level cap. I have no friends, no wife/gf and my kids are 18/20. I got nothing but time. haha

[@xefiporhouseofzen8383]

How about we forget about killing WOW and think more about "Finally an enjoyable MMO to play." Or is the WoW killer tittle just click bait?

[@Jay_bit]

The game is beautiful but I still am not sold on the combat. I am not a fan of Blizzard anymore, but if there's anything they do really well is that their combat FEELS good. Combat that has weight; when you get a crit, you *feel* it. The combat in this game mimics a very eastern style, and I honestly really dislike that- this seems to be a common sentiment considering it's targeting mosty a western audience. If anything turns me away from AoC, it's the combat and combat style. I just don't like it. Also, it's too flashy.

[@Pyriold]

Yes, i feel the same. The reason why i am not so hyped about AoC is the over the top animations and damage numbers. This stuff takes me out of immersion. I want it to feel like a world, but this stuff just screams "game".

[@dargelar3972]

Why kill WoW, he copes with it perfectly well, after the Lich King. Only the videos on KZbin remind us that this game still exists and someone plays it.

[@yoggisen]

👍

[@13threemc]

17:30, I am one of those players, and i doubt it. A lot of your takes are clickbaity af, wow won't be killed by ashes, you know it won't, wow will die in 60 years when all the players are dead. Not an awful opinion video, I would have enjoyed it more if it had less baseless elitism.

[@Raiv-sama]

yeah i subbed to the guy 10 minutes in and unsubbed when i heard the old head elitism. makes no sense, just cause we're younger and didnt play MMOs in the early days, we're all shitheads that want another WoW clone? fuck outta here man, i pray middle aged elitists like this dont infect this game

[@Rasmanit]

Different target audiences. Maybe vanilla players will switch but the retail players won't.

[@deano93517]

Game is not even on beta, and missing 90% of the systems. My Local KZbinr: iS tHiS a wOw kIlLEr?????

this game wont be out for years though have you seen the road map its YEARS away, i will check it out when it comes out but i have a feeling its a scam.

[@3182levidunton]

I thought it was too but i bit the bullet and purchased, and let me say, this company is VERY on the ball with our comments and concerns and updating bugs as we find them etc. I think its truly a passionate, from the heart undertaking. Maybe it started as a scam and they realized that maybe it could be more? Idk but i dont think a scam would care, as much as these developers clearly do. Just my opinion

[@Pygmalion1.6]

@@3182levidunton yeah like the day before or camelot unchained

[@williamlaprarie3007]

Wow killed itself.😂

[@noalei]

I wonder if the reason you only got ganked once is unrelated to corruption and "nodes." Maybe the reason is actually because the game is in alpha and not released yet.

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Actually no there was a LOT of guild vs guild going on. Players dont want to attack and just kill randoms because the penalty is VERY high.

[@KatoNamus]

I actually believe AoC will be the WoW killer. Maybe not in the first year, maybe not even in the second year, but eventually, it will.

[@RobinT.H-D.E.S]

I will party like it's 1999. Whenever WoW goes a fn way. So done with 30+ year old subscription fee lame MMOs. Save the industry Koreans. And SK it. All you morins. Paying to play a Nintendo 64 looking MMO

[@michaelemard6350]

wow killer? its not even competition for wow. first its nothing like wow. people that play wow are most likely not get into this game, second this game is so far out still... and if its not 2 plus years out its going to be trash. the Alpha is missing soooo much.

[@TheRewindSession]

we really can't know if its going to be a wow killer or not but so far if you played alpha 2, gameplay combat is already comparable to wow and thats actually what most mmo players look for in a game. and im not sure if you played vanila wow. but what made vanila wow so great was because of the open world pvp in the neutral zone like stranglevalethorn, the barrens, tanaris etc. same with the world raid where even lower level can participate because there was no flying mounts then. also if you played vanila wow then you would appreciate the leveling in aoc because back in vanila wow it was actually hard to level up and you needed to have groups to even complete some of the quests. and ofcourse the alpha is nmissing a lot because its still in an alpha state lol that shouldbe obvious. i have 150+ hours of playtime in aoc in an alpha state while i only played a fully released new world for 72 hours playtime.

[@TheRewindSession]

the only thing missing about this game to be a wow killer for me is its storyline. i am hoping that it will be as good as the warcraft trilogy story.

[@TheNEPTY]

Incorrect. I played wow for 19 years and this is exactly the game I want.

[@michaelemard6350]

@@TheNEPTY sorry that you cant comprehend abstract demographics and outliers. I'm positive 99% of ppl still playing wow are not leaving for AOC

[@brimstonevalar6053]

Playing Alpha right now but Ashes wont be a massive mmorpg in terms of popularity, game is fun I like the combat, the inmersive world but the game is to grindy and it has full pvp and that wont attract the majority of mmorpg players that are casual, alpha lasting two or more years is all so a bit negative since some players will get bored of the game before it releases, WoW is to big for Ashes only Blizz can kill it.

[@Shao_Grey]

Ashes doesn't want to be a wow-killer .... so why such a vid.... Just clickbait?

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

Did you even watch it? I talk exactly about this.

[@Yushaodo]

bruh what was that fkn intro.. HA!

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

;)

[@gorylek198]

If you have to call yourself WoW killer - you already lost. Asmongold playing showed how unfriendly to people this game is. Constant harassment from tryhards and sweaty gatekeepers moment any player decide just to f**k with you for no reason means you can't just log in and play for 2 hours after work. They can't just harras people until they quit the game. So what's the point? Devs are saying that PVP is there for politics, rivaly and stuff game related and this kind of behavior won't be allowed but you would need more GM-s than freaking old Twitter had mods to police that. So easy to predict that won't happen. That means this game will have minimal population after a month. There is a reason why not a single MMO with total open PVP survived. The closest game to this is EVE and even EVE has high sec zones for people to get familiar with the game and progress before they reach null sec.

[@GameMusingsWithRaziel]

I hard disagree. Asmongold will never be a good benchmark to how people will experience any online game. He is the largest streamer in the world when it comes to MMOs. Nobody else can replicate his experience. Add to that the fact that the anti-griefing systems werent implemented in the game yet. Since the Asmongold incident they have now been put in the next build.

[@brimstonevalar6053]

Ye playing Alpha now and I agree, Ashes will have some popularity at release but due to full pvp tryhards will ruin the servers and have low pop.

[@gorylek198]

@@GameMusingsWithRaziel sorry but that's delusional. The only difference between Asmon and anyone else is that he has high profile so when it happens to him. People notice. God knows how many players were harassed this way just for fun and company owner was not spamming to leave them alone. I played MMO since Ultima. I only stopped playing MMO genre in recent years because all games that have ANY decent population are just poor themeparks with cash shops. EVE was the very last MMO I was sticking to. Because similarly to AoC it's very much all about politics when it comes to PVP. Because war cost in that game. I perfectly know how people are. That anti grieffing you talk about? It does not protect you from baseless harassment and trolling at all. It's very small safe period early on, 1m protection after respawn (you won't even leave area in that time) and shit like being able to stay home. Trust me. Trolls and idiots will kill this game in less than 3 months. Because none of you is prepared to what is coming once this game launches.

[@nathanwheelock3813]

Age of Conan is open world PVP and still going since launch 2008. At least the pvp server. The pve server has only mini games and guild seiges. Age of Conan is the game most pvpers compare to. The pvp is has the longest learning curve of any MMO I have ever played.

[@brimstonevalar6053]

@@nathanwheelock3813 I played Age of Conan back in the day but game now has low pop