ASOIAF THEORY: The Secret Origin of Dragons: Part 1

[@TheDisputedLands]

‼PLEASE Leave a LIKE and a COMMENT... it REALLY DOES HELP‼Let me know your thoughts or just leave an emoji to let me know you were here. After you comment, CHECK OUT MY NEWEST VIDEO here ---> kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKaboox7gqimi7s

[@cernunnos_lives]

If you can smell Kings Landing 5 miles away now, imagine how bad it was before Septon Barth.

[@pyropulseIXXI]

Septon Barf, you mean. He is the reason why it smells so bad, cuz he just funneled the poops far and wide

[@melledevries4685]

So that's the controversial ideas posited in Unnatural History, that made Baelor the Blessed burn the work; That dragons and perhaps Valyrians themselves are the product of blood magic.

[@tylercruse2402]

There have been documented cases of female Komodo Dragons not being near a male for 7 plus years, then laying an egg that is essentially a clone of herself!

[@shanejohns7901]

This happens in some insects as well. Probably becomes increasingly important if eligible males become few and far between encounters. It's the logical biological equivalent of extending the life of the egg's DNA, where the preferred method is to mix male and female for diversity's sake.

[@nahthisaintit]

Bearded dragons can actually change sex. They go from genetic males to functional females during periods of high incubation temperatures.

[@aaronlandis7929]

Dragons are also said to be as intelligent as a man, if not more. Perhaps the blood magic fused not only wyrm and drake, but men as well. Even as dragons contain human DNA, dragonriders contain dragon DNA which explains the occasional Targ dragon baby. Perhaps the polluted gene lines require maintenance through magic. The first empire developed the technique and forgot it, leading to the collapse of both dragons and riders. The Targs rediscovered the technique for fusing men into dragons independently, much as Liebnitz and Newton developed the theory of calculus without reference to each other's work. They then forgot the technique after the doom, much as the Empire of the Dawn lost the technique.

[@TheDisputedLands]

Stay tuned for part 2... looks like you are to enjoy like it.

[@keelobrown4991]

They're not as intelligent as men, thats some dumb shit the tv show made up. The books explicitly state that dragons are only a little more intelligent than dogs.

[@keelobrown4991]

@@universe.factory yea but not more intelligent than humans. They’re probably more like dolphin level intelligent if not higher, but only slightly. I dont think George was supposing that asoiaf dragons could match smaug or glaurung in a game of wits with barths quotes.

[@nintendork1396]

When you say more intelligent, what do you mean? In what ways are they more intelligent? And what is the evidence?

[@waltercostellotruth9198]

Yeah, playing to much "SKYRIM"? 🤔 These dragons don't speak or seem to have any political agenda of their own, these Dragons are definitely smart Yet, they for the most part get adopted by A human with Dragon prince blood who makes A ridable pet out of it and very animal like being kept in cages 🤔. Take care 🙏

[@bklyntraveler9705]

Tyrion was similarly described by his sister to Oberyn Martell when they came to visit. Oberyn said he was disappointed when he pulled back the cover and found that Tyrion did not exhibit those traits.

[@rushnafwadud]

"Remember who you are. The dragons know. Do you?"

[@KingaKucyk]

We NEED Aerea Targaryen's story made into a horror movie linked with the GOT and HOTD lore. Who agrees? 🔥

[@HereBeDragonsYT]

Very well written and presented. I never made the connection between the blind baby Targs and dragons, and blind subterranean creatures (like possibly firewyrms). Excellent catch there. You've put all the pieces in place to rock my world with part 2. Get hyped!

[@jeffgustafson4552]

George Planned it all along!

[@kristinfrostlazerbeams]

I had a thought that Princess Aerea who burned with creatures inside her was pregnant by some kind of fire wyrm or wyvern and this is the way dragons were created since they are human blood magic hybrids. Unfortunately, Princess Aerea was unable to handle the heat from the creatures inside her and she died. So how did human women bear these creatures? Well, since Melisandre had fire inside her and was described at fire, Red Priestesses who could handle the extreme heat bore them just like Melisandre bore shadow babies. My opinion is that Melisandre started the whole Danny story line because she or people like her was the origin of dragons. She knows so much yet keeps it to herself until that information will cause what she knows must happen to defeat the Night King. She is not an evil person like she is portrayed, she must do the things that seem horrible in order to save humanity. I am sure that is so difficult for her.

[@moniquegebeline4350]

Kristin FROST Lazerbeams Except the blood magic dragons and Targaryen line are literally responsible for death and destruction. They used their magic to create these dragons and use them to help them conquer and destroy rather than create and sustain life like the magic of the COTF. Least that’s how I see it. I’ve been on the fence about who the NK really is, but I wonder if he isn’t the first Targaryen/Valyrian who ultilized this type of destructive blood magic to conquer and destroy?

[@moniquegebeline4350]

Kristin FROST Lazerbeams It’s also somewhat reminiscent of Angels breeding with humans to create the nephilim which were also seen as an abomination - however they were also ‘men renowned’

[@armyofninjas9055]

@@moniquegebeline4350 Night King isn't in the books. So I don't consider him canon at all.

[@MissScarletTanager]

Pardon if you bring this up, but I want to make the comment before my scatterbrained mind forgets, and I was 20 min into Part 1 when it hit me. For reference, I have a degree in Biology with a heavy course load in genetics. I can't remember if the exact number of dragons brought to Dragonstone by the Targ exodus from Valyria was mentioned, but if I recall by the time of the Targ civil war, it was 20-22 active hatched dragons, with who knows how many eggs. That makes me think that the number of dragons on Dragonstone at the exodus was quite small, especially since the only dragons mentioned during Aegon's conquest are Aegon's, Rhaenys', and Visenya's. Balerion was said to be the largest, and based on a quote from - I think - Jorah in the books to Dany, the Targ dragons were war dragons, meaning to me as a Biologist, that they were of one specific stock of dragon that was bred for war. So already by the time of the Doom, the Targ dragons had a lower genetic pool than dragons in general pre-Doom. The genetic bottlenecking that would occur post-Doom is STAGGERING, and if we assume there was only 3 dragons post-Conquest and that the 20-22 dragons of the Dance were descended from those three... well, shit, it is no wonder that dragons went extinct. Let me explain. There is a concept called Minimum Viable Population. This is the minimum amount a population needs to maintain genetic diversity in the wild. Populations that are lower than the MVP are at serious risk of extinction due to a lack of gene flow and the prevalence of inbreeding. Inbreeding introduces into a population 1) physical deformations (the smaller size of dragons after Balerion, the complete breakdown and regression of dragons born post-Dance), 2) higher propensity of mental disorder (Cannibal and Silverwing), 3) Lower immune system and genetic defect (Again, post-Dance dragons), and 4) Infertility, including stillborn offspring (Dragon eggs not hatching, hatching malformed, or eggs not being laid at all). There is another term called the co-efficient of inbreeding that refers to the chance of inheriting a disorder or having trouble conceiving/being infertile when the offspring of inbreeding. There's lots of calculation that goes into it, but the more successive generations of inbreeding you have, the higher and higher the co-efficient of inbreeding becomes, making it so ridiculously likely over generations without any gene flow (genes being added to the population from another group of the same species) that the chance of getting dragon offspring that are completely fucked after only a couple generations at this level of inbreeding are pretty much guaranteed. Post-Dance, the only dragons left were Cannibal, Silverwing, Sheepstealer, and Morning, with the only one in Targ hands being Morning. So all they had was Morning, an incredibly inbred dragon, and a bunch of ridiculously inbred eggs. In fact, it really does not take much inbreeding at all to result in infertility and stillborn offspring, especially with successive generations of direct sibling-sibling marriage. The only way to reset the co-efficient of inbreeding in a population is by adding new genes from a new population, which the Targ's NEVER DID because all the other dragons of Valyria WERE FREAKIN' ASHES, YO! (Biology gets me excited, I do not apologize) So what if there was no grand conspiracy to destroy the Targ dragons? The Maesters didn't even NEED to poison them, if they did so. The Targ dragons were screwed the moment Valyria fell, because their population was no longer genetically viable. They went the same way as the tasmanian devil, and the same way that so many endangered species in the real world are going currently. A species cannot survive on that small a population, and with the kind of author GRRM is and how he's included so many biological and evolution-based concepts in his worldbuilding, he HAD to have known that. It feels pretty on purpose, especially considering: DANY'S DRAGONS. Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal are never described as deformed, or ill, or anything that would worry about genetic defects in them. Drogon is even described as the second coming of Balerion. WELL, if we consider the Elissa Farman story and link the dragon eggs she sold to fund her expedition to Dany's three, it makes perfect sense. Elissa was born in 29 AC, making her 25 years old when she cold the 3 eggs in 54 AC. Dragon eggs can last a long time before hatching, as evidenced in Dany's dragons (I dunno if there's reference to the length of time of hatching other eggs, so that's the reference I have). The eggs were specifically from Dreamfyre's clutch, who I couldn't find a hatch date for Dreamfyre except that it was during Aegon I's reign. So if we assume Dany's dragon eggs were the one's Elissa sold, that puts those eggs at between about 250-300 years old by the time Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal hatched from them. This, coupled with them being from Dreamfyre's clutch, who was only separated from Valyrian stock by about 100-150 years, and there is nothing I know of stating how long Dreamfyre was an egg or which dragons she descended from, it is definitely probable and, in my opinion, quite likely that the reason Dany's dragons ARE healthy when the latter Targ dragons were not is because their co-efficient of inbreeding is magnitudes smaller than the last dragons, who were all deformed and stillborn (and Dany's dragons are war dragons as well, further linking her eggs to Elissa's). They could have saved their dragons had there just been more of them to breed between, or if they'd found eggs somewhere else, anywhere else, to inject new genes into the system. This goes even FURTHER, because of the Targ's own inbreeding. Plenty had trouble conceiving or had malformed or genetically weak/ill children, right? But they DID occasionally outbreed with other families. And madness is associated with the family, and what was one sign of inbreeding? Increase in mental illnesses. Now, we don't know how things will play out in the books, obviously, and I hope it's a lot different than the show. The last inbreeding reset in the Targ line was Aegon V marrying out to Betha Blackwood. That, essentially, wipes the slate clean there. But Aegon's children married (Jaehaerys II and Shaera), and then THEIR children married (Aerys II and Rhaella), making Daenerys's co-efficient of inbreeding so high that it would be a literal miracle for her to carry a child to term even before Mirri Maz Dur. Aerys madness could have come from, or been exacerbated by, mental illnesses inherited through being so freakishly inbred. This does not mean that Dany will go nuts like the show, but it DOES lend credence to her loss of Rhaego (caused by Mirri, I know, but stick with me here), her inability to bear children, and the apparent miscarriage at the end of ADWD. It also helps explain some of Viserys's psychosis, him being a magnitude more inbred than even Aerys. And which Targ-kid has a clean slate when it comes to inbreeding? Jon. Jon would be fine due to Rhaegar marrying outside the Targ line with a Stark, a noble house who *checks notes* had no Targs in their line leading to Lyanna whatsoever. tl;dr Dany's dragons are strong and not deformed due to them being from less inbred eggs, the Targ dragons died due to intense inbreeding leading to infertility and genetic, physical, and mental disorder, which mimics the Targ line's own difficulties caused by inbreeding as well. There didn't need to be a conspiracy to rid the world of dragons. They were screwed the moment Valyria blew up and the Targ's inbred them into extinction.

[@MissScarletTanager]

... and now I realize that I spent and hour writing that with cross-referencing in my frenzy, and will cross-post to reddit xD

[@made-line7627]

I loved this. Thankyou!

[@elizabethe.5527]

I loved reading this, thank you for sharing :)

[@lsoo]

This is brilliant! Thank you!

[@nighthasfallen456]

This is so good! There are 2 things that you've talked about there are hints and answers for: Aenar Targaryen left Valyria for Dragonstone with 5 dragons, of which Balerion was the youngest. Makes the gene pool slightly wider, but not enough to stop the inevitable unfortunately. I can't remember if it's show-only or show and book, but Dany's eggs are meant to come from the Shadow Lands, 'where dragons are said to still roam freely'. If this is accurate and it's not Elissa's stolen eggs, that would also explain their robust health as they would have no inbreeding at all! It wouldn't be a stretch that during Valyria's 5000 year history, a few hatchlings and dragons would escape Valyria's control and settle there, especially with our own world's examples of 'invasive species' and certain plants/animals showing up in other non-native continents because humans have brought them. Hope that helps a little!

[@bklyntraveler9705]

So if there are "dragons eggs" in Winterfell, it is likely they are these wyrms, white and sightless, but fierce nonetheless. Maybe that's why Winterfell has that thermal heating- for the firewyrms.

[@marcyc1695]

Or maybe the firewyrms heat winterfell

[@thekrakensdaughter]

there is no dragon eggs in winterfell

[@Sienisota]

​@@thekrakensdaughterThe dragons did visit Winterfell, and its hot springs made the place warm even at winter. If a dragon had a clutch of eggs coming, laying them in Winterfell would be a logical and instinctual place. The Crypts of Winterfell could do for a cave, if the dragon was in a pinch. the Crypts don't have regular traffic from humans, so they are probably the only safe place to house dragons in Winterfell, as the Crypts are larger than all of Winterfell, despite few cave-ins... Could be those cave-ins were caused by a dragon, even. Not saying it's true. Simply that you can't outright reject the idea, unless GRRM implicitly says otherwise.

[@armyofninjas9055]

I have to tell you: this is one of the very best theories I've heard. No one else seems to be talking about it either. Nicely done! And I thought I'd heard all of the theories!

[@patallenhurst3043]

Per GRRM " the 😈 is in the details" ...great detective work at piecing these hidden clues together!!

[@LadyShar]

Nice Job, very well thought out and presented. I loved every moment of it. The fire wyrm quote about them dying in ice made me think of Good Queen Alysanne and how her dragon hated the wall and wouldn't go past it.

[@fang609]

That is true, Alysanne tryed to take SilverWing over the wall 3 time's but she always turned back as if something scared her. Although Danny's dragons seemed to have no problem getting over the wall but it did come with a price. Perhaps SilverWing could sense the presence of White Walkers in the far North.

[@LadyShar]

@@fang609 in the show they don't have a problem with it. Don't know about the books yet.

[@beatrizfernandes1506]

@@LadyShar the wall has to go down in order for the others to invade westeros and the great battle for the dawn to occur. In the show they used an undead ice dragon to do that and thus ignored the possibility that dragons might be unable to cross the Wall (also there's the possibility that Martin hadn't told them about that detail, since we only found out about it after Fire and Blood was published). However, in the books it's very likely that the Wall will fall through another method and that Daenerys' dragons are no better than Alysanne's at crossing the Wall and adapting to the cold environment in general (if I'm not mistaken Silverwing was acting weird, or just different, when they were in the North). We cannot forget that the show has diminished significantly the role of magic in the story, so a lot of details that are connected to it will play out differently in the books, even if the ending is the same.

[@elizabethwood622]

@@fang609it could also be that the wall has magic of its own to stop the others passing it to go south, right? id say the same magic prevents dragons from crossing north. not sure exactly why, maybe it was an unintended consequence of building the wall.

[@asillypiggy]

So Dragons were genetically crafted by the Empire of the Dawn. And the Valyrians were slaves genetically crafted from the humans and Dragons.

[@harleyquinn5774]

I knew it!

[@sophiawilson8696]

Slaves? I doubt that the 48 families rules Varlyia. Well after the Empire of the Dawn collepse.

[@alexv3357]

Those families rose to prominence long after Valyria itself rose to prominence. Before mastering dragons the Valyrians were simple shepherds.

[@estheraida5101]

@@alexv3357 what book and chapter is this?

[@diogenes7663]

@@estheraida5101 the simple sheep herders comes from the world of ice and fire

[@abrhamgebeyehu933]

The Great Empire of the Dawn was one of the best new discoveries out of TWOIAF and I agree that the History of Westeros and LML video was excellent at gathering all the clues.

[@conniesuper9892]

Dany's Rhaego was also full of graveworms,Mirri said.

[@TheDisputedLands]

we will be discussing that very soon!!!

[@ayyylien7066]

I found you through one of LmL's recent livestreams where he talks about this idea and mentions this video. Your work is really good and I cant believe I hadn't heard of your channel before. Subscribed!

[@TheDisputedLands]

Im glad you enjoyed it. Welcome to the Disputed Lands!

[@akeelbrown7675]

I have no idea how I haven't come across your channel until very recently but im glad I have!

[@TheDisputedLands]

Welcome to The Disputed Lands!!

[@armyofninjas9055]

Same! Here during the pandemic.

[@julylyly]

@akeel brown I know i feel the exact same!! Love all the videos

[@scottie16976]

Excellent !!! Videos are always so well presented and the subject is always great. One of my favorite ASOIAF channels.

[@blackeyedlily]

Wonderful as always! Since you referred to early versions of mythological dragons that were wingless, I wanted to add Tolkien to your list. His early dragons were wingless and referred to as worms. The dragons were bred by Morgoth from some unknown stock. And Morgoth’s fortress of Angband delved deep underground. The first dragon seen outside of Angband was Glaurung, also known as the Great Worm and the Worm of Greed. Glaurung had four legs, breathed fire and was wingless. He is said to have sired the rest of his race. So once again I think we can see the influence of Tolkien on GRRM. Perhaps a related idea is that the Orcs were created by Morgoth from Elves he had captured and twisted. Thus showing a variety of genetic type of experiments in Tolkien’s world. Although he probably wouldn’t have used that terminology. I’m excited to see what you have connected about the Valyrians! I have come back to add that Saruman bred Orcs and Men to create his fighting Urak-hai. And that a good part of Saruman’s fall was his rejection of the natural world for one technologically controlled. Exposing the evil of going against nature was important to Tolkien and might play into the ideas GRRM is using here. “The dwarves delved too greedily and too deep,” reminds me of Valyaria.

[@jjvoity7797]

Always a good listen and I like how bring the pieces together. The link with wyms and wyverns and dragons George makes rather clear with at least the title of Barth's book, and Gogossos stories, and Aerya, and the occasional deformed Valyrian babies. The GEotD was one of, if not the very best LmL/HoW collaborations as well and a gold mine. I look forward to how you'll evaluate the Valyrian nightmarish experimental chimera approach with the older GEotD and other references that dragons pre-date Valyria.

[@JHS270694]

It's a shame I found your channel so late, and under lesser circumstances. Bed ridden with a nasty cold. You're videos help pass the time. They're also so darn informative and thoroughly done. I appreciate and admire the time and effort that must have gone into these vids. :)

[@thunderclap7154]

I’ve always been interested as what role the Targaryen’s filled in Valyria. I assume it can’t have been blacksmithing or construction, or would have made more swords and made Kings Landing and the Kings road from dragonstone. Could they have been dragon breeders ? They seemed to multiply in numbers after the conquest, and why were they so keen on keeping their own bloodline pure ?

[@moniquegebeline4350]

The original dragon lords were asshai. Valyrians were shepherds..

[@ice843]

The valerians where a noble house much like Lannister or stark except they where more like the westerlings old ancient house but little money or power by comparison they got a prophecy to run away tho the major Valyrian houses laughing the whole time till they blew themselves up

[@marcyc1695]

@@moniquegebeline4350 If Asshai were the real Dragonlords why didn't they evolve to control them and be known to have dragons like the Targeryans

[@brittneystreeter493]

@@marcyc1695 they all were dragon lords in old valyria until the doom came and killed everyone there and all the dragons. The Targaryens survived because Daenys the dreamer saw the doom in her dreams so they fled to dragon stone (or they were kicked out or fled because of some embarrassment). They were a lesser family in Valyria not as powerful as the others. After the doom the Targaryens were the only dragon lords left with the only dragons. Balerion the black dread was born in old valyria he was the last dragon born there.

[@marcyc1695]

@@brittneystreeter493 Thank you so much for taking the time to tell me this. I already know this but I appreciate your effort. What I meant was, if asshai'i created the dragons why didn't Asshai become the greatest empire like old valyria, why didn't Asshai become old valyria. How come they didn't rule??

[@thecomet6276]

In the world book we are told about caves of eyeless vampire bats. I’ve had bad feelings about this for a while.. like the deformed babies weren’t burned but kept for study and/or the vampire bats were the result of the first failed trials.

[@that_vivian]

Wow this makes Gurm's dragons so much more unique. So well spotted on the wyrm and serpent connection! I'll be picturing the dragons as a lot more snake-like in future. Thanks for the great vid!

[@o0Avalon0o]

Lovely work here; seeing someone who values knowledge is inspiring. I appreciate the dose of adorable at the end too! 32:53

[@maesterzen1046]

It's amazing how you've blown up so quickly but it speaks to the quality of your content!

[@silviyaisold4871]

I have watched all of your videos at least twice now and each time i find them even more compelling. Thank you so much for continuing to provide us with these absilute gems!

[@TheDisputedLands]

You are very welcome!!!!❤

[@lmeasley1262]

You explain it so plainly. It is awesome to watch your videos!

[@sunshinesilverarrow5292]

Excellent video, you do this soooo well!! Looking forward to the next one. Hugs & sunshine & happy weekend 🌞N

[@HebrewsElevenTwentyFive]

The five forts have always been of great interest to me, great video!

[@Thaistickthai]

So if the Valyreans interbred with wyrms/wyverns to gain fire magic or dragon and or dragon control, did the Starks/ firstmen interbreed with the Singers or possibly their magical get(in the show at least( the Others to gain warging/green seers sight? They could be children of the Night King(book)...

[@fightscrimewhilesleeping4024]

Fingers crossed that there'll be something in part two addressing whether or not dragons can hatch dragon eggs on their own, and if not why not. Seems obvious that they SHOULD be able to, cause shouldn't a species be able to propagate itself? But it's always stuck out to me that there's actually no evidence or mention of this in the books, and all discussion around hatching dragons surrounds Valerians or other humans doing it, which seems awfully strange when you think about it. I've really wanted someone with better knowledge of things to do a video on hatching dragon eggs that focused more on that little bit of oddness. If they're the result of blood magic tho, then maybe they really are strangely tied to humans in that way, since they wouldn't be a naturally occurring species at all. (my second theory is that they CAN, but those dragons would not be ride-able, hence the custom of taking the egg from the parent early and placing it in the cradle of a human baby. But then you'd think ONE of those crazy Targaryens would get desperate enough to let a dragon hatch it's egg. On the other hand, maybe they didn't know/think to try that till they were already out of dragons.) Anyway, very interesting video, and I'm looking forward to part 2!

[@MissSeaShell]

Preston Jacobs has a theory video about the genetics of dragon hatching and dragon riding, it convinced me lol

[@pyropulseIXXI]

They said all the dragons are female, and which means they cannot reproduce on their own. They aren't using parthenogenesis, because otherwise all the dragons would be clones of themselves, and the dragons clearly aren't clones, as their traits vary substantially. Thus, something is 'impregnating them.' A firewyrm probably does the impregnating, because of that Princess that came back with wyrms in her. The firewyrms mistook her for a mate-able creature, as she had the 'blood' of their kind, thus impregnating her directly with firewyrms Or if you want to get really nasty, a certain blood magicked person with the 'blood of the dragon' does the impregnating via the planting of their seed in the belly of the dragon

[@barbarastone7546]

Excellent presentation I love dragons and happy to know about this wise man in more detail thanks

[@ethanomcbride]

Omg… a woman making ASOIAF theory vids 🙊 A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

[@erlkoenig505]

Can't remember how often I watched this video, but it's still one of my favourite ASOIAF theory videos out there. Great work, blew my mind! Just a little side note from Germany: In the Nibelungenlied, the German "version" of the legends around Siegfried/Sigurd (and if you ask Germans: the original/ancestral version :P), Fafnir is not actually referred to as "dragon", but as "lindwurm", with "lind" being derived from the old high German word "lint" for "snake", and "wurm" basically meaning the same back then. So the notion of dragons as snake-like creatures was actually pretty strong in old German as well! :)

[@madambutterfly1997]

He was the wisest man the ever service hand so I don't want to hear anyone else say s*** about Tywin being the greatest hand cuz he wasn't. Barth beat him by light years

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

I agree Hasan

[@sayyidf.b.6378]

Yeah, Tywin played the game of thrones better than anyone (Pyter Baelish, Lord Varys, etc.) else but I don't know if he was the best hand of the king. He definitely wielded the power that handship to empower his house and himself better than any hand of the king before him.

[@madambutterfly1997]

@@sayyidf.b.6378 all the other hand worked to benefit the realm or lease all the great ones Tywin is not one of the great ones

[@FreeFromAllThings]

@@sayyidf.b.6378 I don't think Tywin was sooo good politican, he was a very good organizer and a formidable commander, but he is not on the level of Littlefinger or Varys in scheming. Tyrion is also an able commander but otherwise a poor hand, idk how people can belive he wad good. Even Tyrion said he was very bad as a hand.

[@FishBoneD14]

Also it’s easy seeming great when you have a literal mountain of gold gifted to you simply by being born. Blacksmith son to literary talent to hand is so much harder

[@donaldwalker5579]

Wow, I just found your channel. Truly, I have been missing out. Love the video.

[@TheDisputedLands]

Welcome to The Disputed Lands!

[@oultimonome]

Hum.. I wonder now if Valirians are the result of the great empire fire magic experiences with humans... Those mysterious people from the far east might have come across a people of shepherds in a land close to volcanos and rich in fire wyrms... Just as they were doing elsewhere, if the volcanic aspect was presented.Then they enslaved the peoples and made them breed with wyrms creating the dragons. In time they built several buildings with dragons, melting store (the Citadel tower, Sea chair seat in Pyke, and so on...). Their empire collapsed yet the slaves that were the product of breeding with wyrms still existed. With their genetics and knowledge they slowly started to get their own dragons, up until they built their own empire backed by slavery too. Lovely video, so much food for thought!

[@TheDisputedLands]

Stay tuned for part 2. 😉

[@imnotamon]

Totally ready for more of this series

[@ClintSprayberry]

Ahh yeah! Another Disputed Lands video!!!!!!!

[@thisiskamTV]

I look forward to seeing your channel grow

[@lsoo]

This is fabulous. Thank you for your hard work!

[@heliopolitan444]

This is the content I keep wanting in the ASOIAF community 😍😍

[@khuo0219]

Excellent narration. I dislike those who present GoT material using too much slang. Your scholarly presentation is in stark contrast and dearly welcome.

[@JERPIANO]

So well written! I loved this video and all its well presented information

[@PabloAlvestegui]

Oh! I so much LOVED this video!!!

[@alicecuriosityoftenleadsto6288]

I absolutely LOVE your videos! They're my favorite of the ASOIAF theory channels on KZbin ❤

[@conniesuper9892]

Excellent!It's Amanda time!!!

[@kfgold5194]

Really well done! Nice pace, paced full of info. Congrats!

[@eventhorizon4612]

Your channel is amazing! Please come back and do more!!!

[@lady_wasser]

Just today I was angry at someone on FB because of work and I was like: you don’t want wake the dragon, do you? Then you posted this!

[@Liizardqueen90]

New video came out so rewatching the series 😍

[@Tellemicus]

Here's an idea you could consider. The Great Battle for the Dawn that was fought to bring back the light and summer. What if the battle wasn't just fought for summer, but for kingship, symbolized by the possession of a mighty sword named Dawn that had been forged from the heart of a fallen star? Like the more recent Dance of the Dragons, that was started over one son possessing the king's sword?

[@LaurensCorner]

I need more of this in my life and I am soooooo sooooo happy you included the house of the worm in this as many people miss it out. Its also included as a place on the ''planetos'' map. so it is technically cannon. I am now going to binge watching your videos :D x

[@aaronbaron3155]

You have once again put forward a hell of an interesting idea!!!

[@tracymetherell8744]

LML was discussing this and sent us here. The video is as impressive as he said.

[@OntarioAtOrion]

There were past pole shifts. Dorne used to be North. It was covered in ice and there was an ice bridge over the step stones. Another pole shift is coming and then the sun will rise in the west and set in the east.

[@Csizzorhandz]

Great video. Looking forward to part 2!

[@shimaalcarrim7949]

Interesting channel. Surprised I hadn't come across before

[@WhoIsCalli]

Very good, jumping into Pt 2 now ☺️

[@Parjuk]

Agreed! Moving to part 2!!

[@sotoxful]

This was fantastically well researched and presented

[@BaldingClamydia]

This is my first visit to your channel, I think I'll be back 😊

[@TheDisputedLands]

Welcome to The Disputed Lands!

[@bdc2320]

Great video as always. These babies being born with wings makes me think of The City of the Winged Men in the far far east. Perhaps at some point in Valaria's history of combining human and dragon dna some winged men were produced and born healthy and able to survive. But left Valaria to settle in the far far east.

[@Slechy_Lesh]

Are they mentioned in the World of Ice and Fire?

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

When you mentioned the snake dragons I remembered the scythian then dacian then stolen by the Romans the draco standard, that was snake like with a wolfish head. The geotd whose main influences are ancient China and Japan, the dragons there were probably fire wyrms in fact in Japanese the main word for dragons being orochi AKA giant serpent. There were two symbol evolutions the dragon in valyrian style that copied the fire wyrm + wyvern, and the stark who's dragon ended up becoming a wolf once they came into contact with direwolves

[@gloriamitchell3518]

So happy to have discovered your channel. Many thanks to Robert@ In Deep Geek.

[@zippyrebeckah4333]

Fantastic !! Can’t wait for the next one 😃💞

[@colinmacaoidh9583]

I kinda favor the idea that Dragons are akin to the SoIaF version of dinosaurs, but never went through a hard extinction event, so not only did remnant populations survive to early recorded time (Ashai), but that close descendants (Wyvens and firewyrms) could be engineered with blood magic to recreate an ancestral duplicate, much like the way they talk about reverse engineering large birds back into pseudo-dinosaurs.

[@mjean6762]

Instead of dragons flame forging the Five Forts and the base if the Hightower, maybe it was firewyrms that these ancient peoples of the Age of the Dawn used. Then possibly the dragons didn't come until later during Valyrian times with the combining of the wyrms and wyverns (and the blood magic) as Barth suggests.

[@TheDisputedLands]

Hi Mary! Myself and many in the fandom have considered this as a possibility but tend to rule that out one slight issue. The five forts are 1000 feet high, that is 300 feet higher than the wall of westeros. It is doubtful a land based creature could create the five forts from the ground.

[@FaithAndRepentance]

Love your channel, subbed❤

[@TheDisputedLands]

Welcome to the disputed lands!

[@barbarastone7546]

Looking forward to more of your videos thanks

[@vanessaamesty6739]

"They died thought. I must remember that, cling to that... ...They were creatures of heat and fire and they didn't love the ice" If this theory is true I think we found the dragon kryptonite. Dragons will be suffer against the WW in the books, Alysanne already suggest that silverwing didn't wanted to go beyond the wall, I think is reasonable to believe is because of their hate of ice.

[@BraavosiBroadcast]

I know GRRM always says The Ice Dragon isn't part of the ASOIAF world, but I choose not to believe him :) ... But in that story the ice dragon's icy breath is more powerful and harms the fire breathing dragons way more than vice-versa. Ice is more powerful... Just another example.

[@vanessaamesty6739]

@@BraavosiBroadcast There are Ice dragons in the shivering sea according to the tales, the world of ice on fire said something about it. I do believe they are too. But will they be able to go so far south? I guessing they can't without extreme temperatures, the opposite to fire dragons they must have the same flaws, they shouldn't like fire dragons either.

[@vanessaamesty6739]

There are several tales about the Shivering Sea, including queer lights shimmering in the sky, where the demon mother of the ice giants dances eternally through the night, seeking to lure men northward to their dooms. Tales also mention Cannibal Bay, where ships enter only to find themselves trapped forever when the sea freezes behind them. Other tales also mention pale blue mists moving across the waters, so cold they freeze any ship they pass over; drowned spirits that rise at night to drag the living down into the depths; or mermaids of pale flesh and black-scaled tails, far more malign than their sisters to the south.[1] Another myth speaks of ice dragons, far larger than the dragons of Valyria, said to be made of living ice, with eyes of pale blue crystal, vast translucent wings, and breath of cold. WoIaF

[@BraavosiBroadcast]

@@vanessaamesty6739 Agree, their icy power probably wouldn't be as potent in a warmer climate, and they would probably be overtaken by the fire breathing dragons. Good point! Side note: With all the record of ice dragons... why wouldnt the NK (on the show) get an actual ice dragon, rather than taking Viserion? I really hate the Viserion ice dragon storyline..... just gotta say it. It would be equally climactic - or more so, for me!

[@BraavosiBroadcast]

@@vanessaamesty6739 "Dead things in the water.... "

[@nymeriastark9652]

This video often repeats itself at different times.

[@neonspecter2730]

Good stuff. I've long believed that dragons were created from wyverns through fire and blood magic in the Great Empire of the Dawn. Firewyrms could easily factor into that.

[@TheDisputedLands]

Looks like you are going to appreciate part 2!😉

[@lizageorge8923]

I think in the world of LOTR, morgoth created the flying dragons from similar worm-like creatures - there's some interesting parallels :)

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Great as always !

[@iam_ismell]

Reminds me of the book of Enoch, where Angels and Men laid together and brought forth all sorts of Chimera to the earth including the nephillim and other monstrosities such as the cyclops

[@future11b]

Just a random thought, but maybe gray scale is a disease created by a side effect of making dragons, and this is what happens when Targs get infected with gray scale?

[@alicecuriosityoftenleadsto6288]

Septon Barth= GRRM cameo in the Books 😆

[@damienhughes1996]

I'm like #800 love how you break things down...

[@KonguZya]

See, this is the shit I thought about before even reading the books and just watching the first season. I figured that Dany would eventually learn that Targaryens had the ability to transform into dragons. Of course that turned out to not be true, but I'm glad this all seems to be leading to something, instead of being dropped after the hints in the first book.

[@WillowBlackfyre]

Thank you! This is great!

[@TheDisputedLands]

You're very welcome!

[@bryanm4016]

Great video, I love your content

[@krackshot322]

Maybe the starks have night kings DNA in them after the Nights king had a child with the female white walker?

[@glenngreenthumb9919]

@Notorious1503 the nights king**

[@jschoma11]

Its rumored the nights king was the current Lord Stark's brother already, so whatever he may have done is irrelevant. It's more like the nights king was of Stark blood, not the other way around.

[@roodenkofamily2168]

Excellent!!! Thank you very much

[@jdsartre9520]

George RR prolly see himself as septon Barth MARTIN BARTH -ART-

[@ERHawk]

This video just made me realize something in mentioning chimeras. Tyrion is very much a chimera, so was Rhago. I think Tyrion will ride Rhaegal

[@cosmicriptid]

Your videos make this series so much more interesting, and it was already complex.

[@dailydribble]

The maps show the 3 head dragon and a bigger dragon from another land, bigger older so there is something to that.

[@otar2091]

By the way, as I have to study biology for my final exams, I can tell, that worms in general are both male and female, having the fertilization of their egg inside them. I assume Firewyrms count as worms.

[@otar2091]

19:44 Moreover, as I recently learned about the theory of evolution :D there are examples in nature of one gap generation that posseses aspects that actually have been regressed a long time ago called atavism. (Sorry if you actually mentioned it, the english in this video is high level for me xD)

[@cosmicriptid]

The main reason I don't think Dragons are hybrids is that they seem to almost be a source of fire magic. So much fire doesn't work or barely works until Daenerys hatches her children, even half a world away. This also seems to imply there were not other dragons in the world at that time

[@TheDisputedLands]

Thanks for watching! You have half the info with the 1st vid. You may change you mind😉.

[@sylviowinters4997]

I know this is off topic but I’d love to hear what your thoughts are on Dark Star. Keep up the great work

[@markagrippa4018]

I think "Dragons" as they exist now, with the psychic connection to Valyrians and the fact the Targaryens and Velaryons have half dragon-baby still borns the ancient Valyrians created them from Wyverns with blood magic or something of that nature, kind of the opposite of what the Children did with the Others

[@TheDisputedLands]

Definitely watch part 2 🙂

[@circejean]

Thank you four your insightful videos! I think GRRM once said that in the past there were dragons all overt the planet. The world book mentions dragon bones found in Westeros as well. That seems to me like they may be naturally occurring. Or they were at some time in the distant past. Perhaps the Valyrians modified them with interspecies breeding. I think they almost certainly did something to their own genetics with blood magic and breeding!

[@TheDisputedLands]

Hi Circe! Yes! I actually mentioned dragons being in westeros when discussing The Great Empire of the Dawn. The tricky thing about dragons being all over the world is that dragons fly. Dragons being found in various regions does not discount or prove an origin as being natural or less than natural... rather it is a fingerprint left of their presence in those regions. I have discussed The Great Empire's presence in Westeros, and will discuss Sothoryos in the next video.

[@circejean]

@@TheDisputedLands Your videos are wonderful and I look forward to the next one! what you said in video and above makes perfect sense. I think dragons being natural might just be more of a wish on my part. :) Thank you!

[@bucky56laboy]

I think a dragon was turned human by a preast from shadow lands and mated that's where the targaryen bloodline comes from

[@lesliemisaacs]

bucky56laboy oooooh! Interesting!

[@armyofninjas9055]

*Valyrian bloodline

[@eats_a_skittle5459]

Shame this hasn’t gotten more attention I would think tons of people wonder about this, Regardless super good vid walked me through it very well.

[@TheDisputedLands]

It had gotten more attention especially in the media during season 1... I just didnt get attributed but I did a followup video geared toward show watchers. Its okay, those who have been around the fandom awhile know it was me Im not trying to make a big fuss, so it is what it is. Be sure to check out part II or my entire origin of dragons playlist and thank you for watching!

[@geoninja3631]

watching this for the hundreth time, still fun💜

[@TheDisputedLands]

Thanks for watching!

[@johnemery8170]

Thx. Great work.

[@TheDisputedLands]

Glad you liked it!