Astarion learning of Vellioth abusing Cazador

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[@a_ghastly_stranger2265]

Now *that* is some commentary on generation trauma Just in a really weird, *really* fucked up way

[@IroquoisGaming]

Terrible isn't it?

[@capadociaash8003]

Definitely more unsettling then Encanto

[@phoz1234]

I guess the point is to show who Astarion will become, should he choose to ascend: a cruel, sad creature who believes itself to be more merciful than the cruel, sad creature before it.

[@mrbusinesss1]

This is a very interesting find and really puts Astarion’s ascension into perspective. Were he to ascend, he would’ve continued the generational cycle of abuse against his own spawn until one usurps him, takes his power and becomes the next. He even admits this when not ascending! It also puts Cazador’s character into perspective. It makes him a much more interesting character. It makes you understand how he became the horrible vampire he is today, but not excuse it.

[@fatalos6855]

ELEVEN YEARS OF IMPALEMENT??? Zoo wee mama

[@finagle007]

Yeah, Astarion only had to endure 1 year of solitary confinement. Then again, Vellioth was turned by Donella Szarr, one of Cazador's relatives, so that may explain some things.

[@mountainaccident2001]

It makes me wonder if cazador genuinely thought he was being merciful by ONLY sealing astarion away for one year

[@nightwalker9875]

@@mountainaccident2001it might be a twisted form of love; it has been touted that “spare the rod, spoil the child” which to an ageless vampire, everyone is a child. Also adding to the ageless aspect, to us a year is a very significant amount of but to a vampire who could have lived for centuries, it could be easy to see it as a weekend timeout. Either way, torture isn’t justified and Cazador got what was coming to him

[@Kachompsky]

What have you released from the deepest recesses of my brain you foul eldritch being

[@dancingcarapace]

This moment genuinely makes you feel for Cazador. Whilst his behaviour is absolutely abhorrent, you can see how he became what he is. And in his own twisted, fucked up way, he *is* a more merciful Master than Vellioth was. Vellioth impaled Cazador for *eleven years* . Cazador sealed Astarion in a tomb for a year. Both were traumatic but Astarion only had to suffer for a year, whereas Cazador suffered for over a decade.

[@Floweramon]

Many abusers who used to be victims are like that. They will rationalize the abuse they do by recalling their own abuse and thinking that what their victim is going through is merciful compared to that

[@afairyist9981]

The same way AA thinks he's being kind to consort Tav because he'd never be as bad as Cazador

[@tenmahakusho6390]

I found this during his origin run and the dark urge path.

[@SweetieEvie]

Suppose Astarion is given a look into the past when Cazador himself was a mere spawn and the result of his own trauma placed on his own spawns. It’s a cycle and Astarion seeing how Cazador became the evil monster he was when could create spawns himself and treat them the same way he was “taught”. Astarion knowing this information shows what he might become once ascended and can prevent him from continuing the cycle, knowing what Cazador put him through was the result of what Cazador’s master put HIM through. Astarion can end the cycle once ascended and not inflict his trauma on a spawn of his own. It matters not whether he changes his mind because he knows suffering, the constant fear. Seeing the cycle, he’d want to avoid continuing it. He’d be aware of the possibility and wouldn’t want to follow. His journey gave him things Cazador didn’t have as a spawn. He’s experienced many things since given the tadpole. He can come out different than the 2 generations before him. He doesn’t have to become the same evil bastard the 2 before him were. He has the insight to how Cazador came to be who he was and he can avoid letting himself follow the path they did.

[@luangu]

Oh, was this to make me sympathetic? For the undead? For vampires? For the Damned? No. Tis time for smiting.

[@IroquoisGaming]

Based

[@Ripulintuoja]

The fastest way to end the cycle of abuse. Nothing a few smites and stakes won't fix.

[@GayLPer]

Understanding is always beneficial. But it can also help you understand when sympathy is unwarranted.

[@PaddyRoon7]

I always have trouble understanding characters like Astarion who can't see what they've become. I'm one of those extreme self aware types (it's not fun) and if I was Astarion, reading these lessons would instantly stop me cold. I'd instantly see exactly what was happening, who I was becoming. (If I didn't already before this point.) It's so incredibly clear from reading this that he is becoming the next Cazador, continuing the cycle of abuse and misery. Tbf, maybe it's just that he WANTS to be like Cazador. I remember a camp convo where he says something like "the only problem with what Cazador did, is that he did it to me." That'd make a lot more sense.

[@IroquoisGaming]

Astarion too was tortured for weeks on end. So maybe it just broke him? The logic of a whole mind probably doesn't apply.

[@NPC-rq6vn]

I never found this. I keep finding new stuff.

[@sadrakhsadrakh7083]

wait ... I never encounter this... Skeleton skull @_@ uhhh where is that??

[@IroquoisGaming]

In the basement of Cazador's mansion.

[@sadrakhsadrakh7083]

@@IroquoisGaming thanks