"Atheists Can't Tell Good From Bad, Right From Wrong!?" | The Atheist Experience: Throwback

[@christasimon9716]

"You have no morals because you do not accept acts of genocide into your heart." Was that what just happened?

[@jackwhitbread4583]

Yep pretty much.

[@jamesaston410]

Spot on!

[@alicepbg2042]

"acts of genocide, that I say were a net positive, into your heart"

[@bodricthered]

And slavery. And homophobia. And misogyny. And vicarious restitution for vicarious guilt.... And .. and .... And ... Yuck

[@gainer83]

diana please dont breed if its not already too late

[@Nick-xe8rx]

Isn’t it ironic how the people who question your morality doesn’t seem to have any?

[@mistylover7398]

Religious decepticons look like yo pfp. Lol picking fights for no reason.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". Q.E.D.

[@buukkreider544]

@@mistylover7398 You're too young to understand. You have been blinded by The Enemy... 2Corinthians 4:2-7 The Gospel Hid to them that are Lost 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. Ephesians 2: 1-3 The Prince of The Power of The Air - Working in Children of Disobedience 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. For those that are going against God's Word are those that are falling into the hands of the enemy. The Enemy hates God, but he cannot defeat God; therefore, he will do what he can to disturb God. One of the ways is to influence the Children of Adam to doubt God, then call God a liar - just like in the garden.

[@dannyspitzer1267]

This caller is just one more reason that I am an anti-theist

[@Seticzech]

👍

[@Tuna_Man2323]

I concur.

[@jackwhitbread4583]

Yep, me too.

[@jamesaston410]

Yes, I’ve been atheist since I was about 8, but the older I get the more anti-theist I have become.

[@jamesaston410]

@@JimCastleberryI’d debate you any time about the cesspool of moral turpitude the Old Testament is. Up for it?

[@hammalammadingdong6244]

"You don't have MY moral standard, so you have NO moral standard. You don't have the thing that gives MY life meaning, so your life has NO meaning." Sound familiar?

[@sanjosemike3137]

I am not sure I understand that point. Woke college students have built a system of morality that is essentially anti racism. I think that' s fine. But defining racism is confusing to say the least. I'm not sure I understand their moral system. Perhaps you can explain that to me. Is racism using certain words? Is it denying a person a job because they are not qualified for it? Can a person of color be a racist? What about a person who is gay? How do they fit on the "racism scale." Can a gay person be a racist? Should all white people refuse jobs because there is a person of color also applying for it? People of color have also had slaves. Are they racist? I'm sorry. I'm confused. I just don't understand that particular moral system. Maybe I am an idiot. I think most Americans are confused by the "woke" morality system. It seems to change every week. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@jackwhitbread4583]

​@@sanjosemike3137clown

[@amtlpaul]

​@@sanjosemike3137You may find defining racism confusing, but I suspect that that's because you don't want to understand

[@Tiny_and_Reese]

@@sanjosemike3137 It changes every week because the people I assume you watch have never actually given a definition for the term "woke", and every time they try they look like absolute fools. Your Charlie Kirks and Ben Shapiros and perhaps even your Nick Fuenteses. That won't stop them from applying the label, though, which might give you the misapprehension that they're being consistent. The only possible way that you could think anyone is hiring "unqualified people" is if you automatically assume, apropos of nothing, that standards are being lowered for people of color. That's racism. You are not confused. You are a bad faith actor looking to have your talking points debated and thus legitimized.

[@Lip_Gallagher]

@@sanjosemike3137if you’re talking about woke college students, it’s because you’re impressionable and watching way too much right wing media or perhaps bill Maher and you take everything they say at face value.

[@Childfree334]

Diana thinks it's perfectly fine to unalive people who don't believe in God's word despite one of the 10 Commandments being "Thou shalt Not Kill," but somehow it's atheists who lack a moral framework. You can't make this stuff up. 😂😂😂

[@davidsmith7653]

I rather like Terry Pratchett's word "inhume" rather than unalive being the opposite of exhume.

[@mollywolfe7321]

Well, some theists like to replace 'shall not kill' with 'shall not murder' so they can say murder is unlawful, but god makes the law so he decides if its lawful or not. Very convenient.

[@jamesaston410]

@@mollywolfe7321lol, yes, rather too convenient :) A bit like the free will ‘get out of jail free’ card that’s often trotted out to explain all the time god is not good 😊

[@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg]

Is she objectively wrong believing that?

[@davidsmith7653]

@@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg There's no such thing as objective morality. Theists have books which they pretend are written by sky pixies but it's actually the words of fallible people anyway.

[@Pa1ad1no]

The theists can't even tell what's bad from their damned books

[@perryegolson833]

And yet they want to ban/burn all OTHER books.

[@jamesaston410]

@@perryegolson833and that’s how theocracies start.

[@alexanderadams6628]

I can it's easy. Your worldview seems to make you angry however.

[@XarXXon]

@@alexanderadams6628 Having to listen to a person saying that her "objective" morality makes it ok to slaughter unarmed people in the name of her religion, has that effect on empathic people3

[@Alltime2050]

@@alexanderadams6628 People who believe that humans are born inherently evil, tend to be what they think they are.

[@Secret_Pickle]

What a psychopath.

[@sanjosemike3137]

I have accomplished more in my life than you can even aspire to. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@freakishuproar1168]

@@sanjosemike3137 By "accomplishments" I assume you mean you've downloaded more see-pee than everyone else in the comments.

[@michaelmay5453]

@@sanjosemike3137 Tell us about it and we'll be the judges of that.

[@NottherealLucifer]

​@@sanjosemike3137People who have actually accomplished a lot don't usually need to assert so as vaguely as you have, they'd usually just list their accomplishments. Even if you weren't lying, the greatest accomplishment a theist can achieve is freeing themselves from their delusions and becoming atheists. No other accomplishment matters if you think magic is real.

[@taurculh69]

If you listen to the tone it's not right, and it also sounds like she's trying not to laugh. No way I would personally take that call seriously.

[@jasonharris8486]

Don't forget, the Catholic Church colluded with Hitler and the Nazis.

[@cesariglesias297]

Former Catholics here yes they did that but remember Nazi Germany was prominently Christian and the leadership were Christians the Protestants were over-represented in the Nazi Party's membership and electorate.

[@toshikotanaka3249]

Let's say I was an atheist and the only atheist living in Chicago, surrounded by 2.6 million Catholics whose leaders colluded with Hitler and the Nazis. I would still rather live there than in Tehran. Talk about a religion spread by the sword, those people are scary.

[@tiltingwindmill]

The sad outcome of a flawed history education. If Diana went to public school, shame on Kansas. If a private Christian school, shame on the admin. If Diana was home schooled, shame on her parents. In all cases, I blame the politicians in her state who set the educational standards, or lack thereof. So frustrating.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

I went to public school, and I somehow learned some critical thinking skills.

[@MizterMissile]

I went to public school in Texas and I got a horrendous education on our history. By high school, I had no idea why kids weren't allowed to have rebel flags on their cars.

[@tiltingwindmill]

@@user-gk9lg5sp4y As did I, athough I went to an excellent secular private school for 5th through 8th grade.

[@tiltingwindmill]

@@MizterMissile It appears to me that the states in the south have not taught Civil War history all too accurately. It's things like that make me sad that our public education standards aren't set with minimum ~national~ standards. History and science in particular are given short shrift in too many states of the US.

[@perryegolson833]

It's a part of the equation, yes, but not the whole thing. It's her upbringing. Like Dave said, it's her indoctrination. They actually vote FOR the clowns who do this crap in the name of "god".

[@Molluskenkoenig]

The fact that people like this are out there doing their daily business and meeting me at the grocery store baffles me.

[@JeffBedrick]

Funny how she got all self-righteous about being straw manned, then tried to do half a back pedal, but ultimately dug her heels in to defending atrocities.

[@etaylor8028]

Every society's moral framework originated from religion. Even an atheistic one like Finland. Saying you determine right or wrong by "using your feelings" is stupid because these feelings originate from society telling you what is right or wrong, from some kind of religious blueprint. I hate when atheists try to act like they pull morality from their asses; you don't, you determine morality based on society and your upbringing, obviously. An atheist in the United States still has more or less the same moral standards as any theist, minus a few details here or there (e.g. killing is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc). I don't care if you're religious or not, but to not even give a nod to the fact that our current moral blueprint originated from religion, shows that the speakers aren't as intelligent as they think they are.

[@dieseljester3466]

By her own logic, ISIS beheading people that they've kidnapped in the Middle East is a moral thing for them to do. 😆

[@rachelkuuipo9776]

Just wow...like I shouldn't be surprised anymore, yet I am.

[@jaredmast2335]

A catholic defending fascism because it brings order. Weird.

[@cto1gg]

Could be a quote from Darth Vader. That woman is completely lost.

[@sypherthe297th2]

​@@cto1ggHow is it weird? Seems to be the natural state of things for theists to defend such things. It happens so frequently as to be unremarkable.

[@WinstonSmith19847]

The Catholic church was certainly ordered when it smuggled Nazi war criminals to South America to escape justice at the end of World War Two, sexual abuse of children isn't the only despicable act the Catholic church has been involved in.

[@jaredmast2335]

@sypherthe297th2 sarcasm. Catholics are fascists. That church was created to control people. Hasn't progressed much.

[@topsyfulwell]

Hitler was Catholic so maybe not...

[@Tiny_and_Reese]

I'm sorry but once you've accepted that people dying and killing others for your religion is okay, you no longer get to have a conversation about morality.

[@Heygoodlooking-lk9kg]

Another example of how religion twists the mind of believers

[@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg]

@@Heygoodlooking-lk9kg what is a mind? Does it actually exist, or are you just making words up?

[@Heygoodlooking-lk9kg]

@@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg sorry, I don’t have time for stupidity,,,,,what is a soul?

[@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg]

@@Heygoodlooking-lk9kg you tell me, you’re the one bringing it up. From your perspective I’m guessing it’s just another made up word that you throw around. Am I right?

[@ROVA00]

@@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg you are so utterly without an argument that the best you could do was deflect to an irrelevance 😂

[@ZeitgeistOmega]

@@RicardoMartinez-oy9dgDude..just…stop. There’s a difference between an opinion and a claim. You’re one of those who make irrelevant claims and/or statements trying to look for a “Gotcha!” moment. You obviously think you’re being smart, but you’re not.

[@decay79]

Oi Diana.. When you invade others, it's not fucking defense..

[@jamesaston410]

👆

[@Nocturnalux]

Not just boys. I was a teenage girl whose priest asked on a date…during confession.

[@amtlpaul]

Wow, that's messed up

[@Nocturnalux]

@@amtlpaulDid the same to a friend of mine, too. And the irony? I was an atheist. I just went to confession to escape religion class. Needless to say, never again. Nor was this the worst thing to happen to me in Catholic school.

[@t800fantasm2]

@@Nocturnalux "I just went to confession to escape religion class." Hahaha I admire your style...

[@Nocturnalux]

@@t800fantasm2 I was a vocal atheist, too. Kept getting into trouble over it. Made a couple of classmates cry but they brought their gross Jesus on me. Not my fault. Also terrified my entire senior class by doing a paper on the devil, for religion class. They wanted to read it but were afraid of the baphomet on the cover.

[@t800fantasm2]

@@Nocturnalux I'm lucky, grew up in Canada... No one around me gave a rat's ass about religion.. Used to get pestered by the Jehovah's witnesses years ago... Every week almost these 3 little old biddies would knock on my door and try to give me The Watchtower and preach... One day I was about to jump into the shower when I heard a knock... Peeked through the door viewer, so I opened the door in the nude... They never came back... So much for their faith...

[@AnimatedEffigy]

Theist: Claims objective morality. Also Theist: Well that immoral thing was ok back then because it was different times.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2]

This is EXACTLY what the theist "Steve" (who is throwing the "objective morality" tantrum) did with biblical slavery.

[@devonceyjones1588]

That woman is sick

[@johnthijm5113]

Sick to the bone

[@ChristianIce]

"I've got my morals from god!" Mkay, but that would mean that *YOU* can't tell good from bad without your god, right? :)

[@RosieRoserules]

When people say every human is a sinner I say well who designed them that way?

[@stephenbyrne914]

If everyone is born a sinner (according to Christianity) that what the fcuk was the point of Jesus (if he even existed) dying? Was it not supposedly to absolve everyone of sin? The bible sure is a crock of shit.

[@twowardrobeswardrobes1536]

@@Steve-sg3uz Who decided that?

[@bobs182]

The whole point of everyone being a sinner is to make them submit to the church. God being the tribe identity wants them to submit. This is tribalism where getting saved is joining the tribe. We no longer live in primitive tribes but still have our tribal instincts.

[@twowardrobeswardrobes1536]

@@Steve-sg3uz Then God designed every human to be a sinner.

[@AllHailDiskordia]

Religion melts minds

[@187nemesis3]

Religion is the most dangerous drug in the world. It transforms the brain so that you believe things to be true that are incompatible with reality. Because you have a book that you believe in so strongly that it is more real than reality. In contrast to other drugs, where every consumer actually knows that they are taking this crap to get high so that they no longer have to perceive reality. With the drug religion, this shit becomes reality. No other drug is capable of doing this.

[@joshsheridan9511]

Yes we can, we just don't need a imaginary friend to tell us which is which.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@georgeaguilar6996the world isn't pretty or fair, Look at your you should be living life to the full Instead you can only get any enjoyment by trolling and making a fool of yourself. How unpretty and unfair that you have faulty mental faculties.

[@Folkstone1957]

This woman is just a sad excuse for a human being.

[@smochygrice465]

I'm an atheist and I can tell right from wrong, good from bad. Thank God for atheism 🙏 And a good Friday Morning 🌞 AXP Fans and Theists ❤❤❤ Peace Love Empathy From Australia 💪🤠☝️

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

2nd that and a good morn you my Tassie cobber🍻

[@ROVA00]

The insane thing is that people like Diana or Jordan Peterson would tell you that “no, you can’t tell right from wrong because you don’t have a moral framework” (aka the Bible) despite the glaring obviousness of murder of innocent beings being a bad thing.

[@buukkreider544]

If you believe in 'Good Friday', then how are you atheist?

[@CH2011-a]

It's ignorant and gullible people like Diana who will justify and support future violence led by religious leaders against certain others. This is why church and state must remain separate.

[@Beacon80]

The only difference between a theist's morality and an atheist's morality, is that you can convince a theist to act against their morals by convincing them it's what their god would want.

[@rizdekd3912]

@@georgeaguilar6996 "For example?" Abraham was convinced by God to sacrifice Isaac up until God stopped him. Do you think he would have, based on his own morality, thought to sacrifice his son Isaac?

[@nicholassmart3844]

@@georgeaguilar6996red herring

[@rizdekd3912]

@@georgeaguilar6996 "What's the moral teaching behind it, knowing that the canaanites burned their children?" Behind what? My example? No...best I can tell, it has nothing to do with Canaanites. Are you familiar with the story? God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." The implication is that it wasn't a 'one off' instruction because in the first instruction, God says go do it and says that later he'll tell him where. And Abraham apparently found the place so God had to have given him more instructions...leading him to believe he ought to continue and still had God's guidance pressing on as if to sacrifice Isaac. Do you think Abraham would have even had any inkling of sacrificing his son Isaac without that instruction from God?

[@Beacon80]

@@georgeaguilar6996 No atheist has been convinced that they should stop loving their child for being gay, but many, _many_ theists have been.

[@rizdekd3912]

@@georgeaguilar6996 "No, he wouldn't because there was no reason to do it. But if you study the why behind it, you might not think the way you do about the story." Did Abraham know the 'why' behind God's command when he set out to sacrifice Isaac? IF not, then he set out to do something he would never have done on his own volition which is what we were talking about to begin with. And that seems to be what you're admitting with "No, he wouldn't because there was no reason to do it." So I'm not sure why you responded since you agree he never would have done it without God telling him. If so, if Abraham knew it was a test, Abraham knew up front he would not have to sacrifice Isaac because he knew it was a test all along. And God knew up front the outcome because he is omniscient. So it was a useless test.

[@thejamesguide]

This is what's scary about religion. An otherwise normal and "moral" person who in any other context would be appalled with answers like these, gives them. It's truly sickening.

[@citypavement]

I'm tempted to say things were better before humans had a prefrontal cortex.

[@Secret_Pickle]

"coherent christian reality" is the most ridiculous three words I've ever heard.

[@meloveAi]

I believe those are called "rose-tinted glasses"

[@sanjosemike3137]

OK, I think I understand your point. But I am confused by the woke morality system. Maybe you can explain that to me. It changes every week. I think it is wrong to be racist. I just don't understand what racism means according to the woke theory of morality. Please forgive me for being confused. I think most Americans are, even atheists. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@meloveAi]

@@sanjosemike3137 What's woke?

[@phillipransom8920]

Nothing coherent or real when it comes to belief in gods.

[@sanjosemike3137]

@@meloveAi Amazing that you don't know what this is. Look it up. It is the "concept of anti-racism into a kind of religion." This is what most college students believe. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@jpstardom3375]

If you cannot tell right from wrong, You need empathy, not religion.

[@theboombody]

Empathy can lead people to do very wrong things if they empathize with the wrong crowd.

[@jpstardom3375]

@@theboombody Nope The word you want to use is INFLUENCE not empathy. Here's an example, plenty of christians on yt DEFEND slavery in the bible. Why? When questioned, you can sift through their words. They have cognitive dissonance. They empathize that slavery is a bad thing. HOWEVER They have been deeply influenced by their christian religion to defend slavery. That's the difference. Someone can influence you to do bad things. But as long as you have empathy, you can and will realize that its bad.

[@theboombody]

@@jpstardom3375 Then why do so many secular people say good and bad don't objectively exist? What's wrong with a society that decides they don't want any empathy? Don't they get the right to make their own rules? Who's going to make their rules for them if they don't?

[@jpstardom3375]

@@theboombody Do you even understand what empathy is and what it entail? Good and bad dont objectively exist, its true. To you, dying is bad, but to a crocodile, its free food. Good and bad is subjective. To me, a human, dying is bad, Looking through empathy, i would think that you, as a human like me, would also think dying is bad. So we create laws and agree to follow those laws, for our own safety and comfort. We, humans, create a paradise FOR humans. We can extend that empathy to anyone and anything. A society that doesnt have empathy will slowly become a dystopia.

[@theboombody]

​@@jpstardom3375 If every human being believed their own safety and comfort are good, there would be no professional wrestlers. Not all people think as you do with regards to that. Your vision is too narrow and doesn't take into account the many irrational human beings that are out there. But of course, if most of us were irrational and WANTED a dystopia, there'd be nothing inherently wrong with it apparently. Unless you don't believe your own words.

[@waynedexter]

“I consumed atheist media for years. But then I realized there was so many dang contradictions” Umm… another apologist being as unserious as they want to be, much?

[@waynedexter]

I would’ve asked Diana to list some of those contradictions

[@joelonsdale]

It doesn't matter, Diane, if we have a base for our "atheist morality" or not. Our claim is that the base of yours doesn't exist, leaving you worse off than us! Prove your god exists and has given moral commandments as you claim, then we can pick apart alternative viewpoints.

[@Hexon66]

More precisely though, is that the atheistic moral standard is result oriented (what good or harm does it do), whereas her morality is entirely a (perhaps fictional) source-based a priori standard, unconcerned about consequences.... the "let God sort it out" part of the enterprise.

[@joelonsdale]

@@Hexon66 Not really. Even if atheists have no morality and no explanations for anything, Diane still has nothing. That's the point, precisely.

[@terrencelockett4072]

And that's a tactic they use on multiple topics. Their unproven claims about their unproven god have to be true because either strictly their feelings or their feelings about their book. And leaving their beliefs in worse standing than they assume ours would be. And sometimes even if we grant them the point of their god existing, the questions and points they try to throw at an atheist doesn't help their claims about their beliefs.

[@LOwens-xf8yo]

If an objective moral standard includes excusing genocide, slavery, & the subordination of half the human race, then that’s not a moral foundation. And if it excludes those parts of the Bible, then what objective moral standard is used to determine which parts of the holy scripture are to be obeyed? Because thats where most Xians disagree with each other. Which wouldn’t happen if Xianity morality was objective.

[@seekeroftruth6728]

This is what happens when you sacrifice your humanity in deference to an incredibly immoral religion.

[@khroify]

Moral framing for an Athiest? It's easy: If what your doing is hurting someone, stop doing it. If what you're about to do is going to hurt someone, don't do it. Easy. Don't need a book of fairy tales and assorted tales of fear to guide my life.

[@ricbiff3569]

You forgot all the pornography in the Bible...it's the best selling x-rated book of all time. That's the real appeal...

[@bronwentillman8385]

It's called "common sense".....too many people sorely lack it.

[@sanjosemike3137]

OK. I think I understand your point. But I don't understand the "woke" morality system. Can an atheist be a racist? What if they are atheist and black? Can they be racist? What if they are gay? Can a gay person be racist because they don't like black gay people? Refuse to date them? I think most of us are confused by this system. Could this system benefit by inserting a "Christian framework?" I am not a Christian. I'm just curious. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@JJ-qo7th]

Add on "Minimize suffering and maximize happiness and flourishing" and you've got the bases pretty well covered.

[@az8theist977]

Well put.

[@SurgiusMaximus]

It's interesting that many theists will make arguments for objective morality based on a deity they believe in, yet they cannot provide objectivity verifiable evidence that their deity even exists. Presupposing a deity for an argument is Begging the Question Fallacy. So...evidence for that god or your argument is a nonstarter.

[@meloveAi]

What's something I consider worse is that even if that deity exists, and they base their morality on whatever that deity says, that's subjective morality! Because it all depends on whatever the deity says, so if they change their mind, whatever's good becomes bad and vice versa.

[@jamesaston410]

@@meloveAi I find most believers find it difficult to differentiate between objectivity and subjectivity, often conflating the two.

[@theboombody]

@@meloveAi Subjective means it varies from person to person, in other words, an anarchy.

[@meloveAi]

@@theboombody Are deities not people? Does it matter if they are or aren't people? And you make it sound like anarchy is a bad thing. Anarchy, from my understanding, just means there's no governing body telling people what to do and not do.

[@theboombody]

@@meloveAi It means that when there's a conflict, there's no clear and civil way to determine which person's viewpoint should be adhered to. In cases like that, fighting could arise to settle the matter, sometimes violent fighting. For people good at fighting, I guess that's good. For the weak or old, it's not so good. And eventually everyone grows old if they live long enough.

[@ScapeGoat77]

If your objective moral standard is simply, “because ‘God’” then you actually have no moral standard.

[@trumpbellend6717]

​@@Steve-sg3uz Lol please define the terms "right" and "wrong" dear I'll wait....... 🥱😴

[@ScapeGoat77]

@@Steve-sg3uz “Right” and “wrong” depend on upon WHO you’re doing right or wrong to. EVERY SINGLE CONSCIOUS BEING should offer everyone a baseline mutual respect. Any reality without that (mutual respect “golden rule”) will turn into a hierarchy fighting and “procreating.” The PROOF of an “objective moral standard” is simply called “giving a shit about others.” I guess it’s not “wrong” if you don’t, but that makes you into a bit of an asshole in this evolution of consciousness.

[@ScapeGoat77]

@@Steve-sg3uz WTF kind of nonsense is that? How can it be wrong to care about anyone? Love isn’t about sex, bud.

[@ScapeGoat77]

@@Steve-sg3uz Well, first of all, the fact that your mind dreamt up this hypothetical is telling of where it resides. But, sure…I think that would be messed up. I wouldn’t want to judge them, but they should actually give a shit about each other, not just how they make each other feel. Secondly, Who says there’s no harm? I didn’t. Harm can be more than physical. Some folks even WANT to be physically harmed…and that’s not my business, just like the people in this scenario. Sure, I think it’s still wrong, and I don’t need a “God” to tell me that. Despite the fact that they both feel like expressing their affection physically, they don’t see the psychological harm that they are causing each other. If you actually care about your sister, you wouldn’t want to screw her…and vice versa. You’d treat her with respect and dignity. If humanity thought logically, we’d treat ALL sex with reverence because it is the only natural way to bring new consciousness into the world…even though you can “play doctor” in a lot of other ways that won’t bring another consciousness into the mix…we just can’t stop doing the ONE SPECIFIC money shot that makes the babies, and we act like we can’t help it…but we’re really just running on our subconscious desires that are tied to our survival instincts. Sex isn’t about love, but it should be. A brother and sister also can’t consent for the will of the inbred kid they might create, so there’s harm to them as well because they can’t speak for themselves.

[@ScapeGoat77]

@@Steve-sg3uz Also…you could’ve made the same argument using “murder” and “assisted suicide,” but the first place you went was “incest” and “necrophilia.” Nice. 👍

[@masterofthecontinuum]

She sounds like she's trolling sometimes

[@cafeeineaddicted8123]

I think you're right. She's trolling.

[@thedave1771]

The pro-slavery folks are better at it, trolling or not. Just wow.

[@Mmmmilo]

She’s not. She’s nervously laughing because she’s experiencing insane cognitive dissonance.

[@VerdeDrums]

You can hear her mouth turning up with a chuckle

[@chainclaw07]

Defending and traveling miles upon miles upon miles and killing people in their own homes does not quite compute to me...

[@truttlebear7999]

This is the sickness of religious dogma.

[@Bp_blp]

She says that killing is okay to both defend her faith and to silence those who dissent. Yet I bet you that with the same breath she would denounce people of another faith who believe the same thing as barbaric. What a disgusting view.

[@RosieRoserules]

Any God who designed this mess of a world where everything is based on blood and death and murder and misery is a miserable God.

[@wwlib5390]

@RosieRoserules God designed it perfectly. Mankind just had a temper-tantrum. John 3 16 invites you to know God's love in a restored relationship which was severed by that temper tantrum and to realize and fulfill his purpose for you - to become holy and blameless before Him in His everlasting Kingdom.

[@rizdekd3912]

@@wwlib5390 "God designed it perfectly. Mankind just had a temper-tantrum." God designed and created the world with sin in it. He is the one who created it and then allowed sin into it in the form of Satan. Furthermore Satan sinned first before Eve sinned. Satan introduced sin into the world not humans. So there was no temper tantrum...there was an evil deceiver turned loose on innocent 'not knowing right from wrong' people. He was turned loose by God himself.

[@wwlib5390]

​@@rizdekd3912 I disagree. Temptation that is rebuffed is not sin. Sin can take hold when temptation is embraced and carried through with. I believe this was what Jesus was getting at in the NT when He likened a man looking at a pretty woman with lust in his heart was in danger of the same punishment as adultery. LOOKING at a woman is not sin - but could be simply considered the presence of temptation. "With lust in his heart" has moved beyond the temptation phase to the beginning of embracing sin - EVEN if no further action is taken. A person who takes that step from temptation to sin, but then immediately rebuffs it and repents, has not allowed that sin to overtake and rule over him. God said to Cain, before he murdered Abel: " If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do wat is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” The history of mankind as recorded in the Bible reveals a sad truth. Man is totally unable to rule over sin, but the opposite is obvious. We often excuse it with 'I'm only human!" or "It's just human nature!" And that's true. That's why God revealed in the right time 2,000 years ago that man needs not only a savior, but a NEW nature - the nature of God to dwell within Him - and He gave that to all who ask (which is simply faith) through His invitation in John 3 16. Lucifer, the beautiful angel of light, was likewise tempted when his pride in his beauty and strength and position of power caused him to desire to shove God Almighty out of the way and replace Him. (Stupid, huh? But sin makes you stupid and causes you to do stupid things!) His punishment is coming and will be an unpleasant and eternal torment in Hell. We face many temptations today and Lucifer-now-Satan is more than happy to provide every temptation we can't even imagine on our own. It's a constant struggle to not be ensnared and enslaved by those temptations for every human - but for the ones who DO, do so only by trusting in God's help, for no man has EVER succeeded in resisting and rebuffing every single one without God's help - except God in flesh, Jesus - the only perfect sinless sacrifice that could be made to redeem mankind. That's the Gospel message in John 3 16 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and the point - IMO - of all temptation is to bring us to Him BY OUR OWN free will and own choice to receive Life.

[@CajinVaren]

​@@wwlib5390You are a fool, you have been fooled, and you are trying to fool others. Wake up and use the brain your fake religion taught you to ignore.

[@jamesaston410]

@@wwlib5390the free will argument is merely a get out of jail free card for when believers cannot explain the times god is not good. If free will exists, explain why god had to flood the planet and throw some lightening bolts onto the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah? Why bestow free will on man if it can be overridden by god on a whim? His interventions negate the whole premise of free will.

[@BigSlimyBlob]

It's weird because she's mostly coherent. It's as soon as a fact threatens her belief system that suddenly there's a wall that prevents her mind from going there. And that's all it takes. It's just those few blind spots that make her capable of believing that obviously evil acts are perfectly justified.

[@RavenGlenn]

It's what sucks so much about any idea system that requires you to fully commit your life and how you behave to it. It doesn't matter if it's a mainstream religion, political extremism, a cult, conspiracy theories, etc. Because these people have built their world view around these concepts, anything that threatens to prove those beliefs wrong is seen as an attack on them personally. Because it would, almost certainly, hurt someone deeply to know that they've based their whole life around lies. We should pity these people because they've been lied to and hurt in ways they don't even understand yet. It's incredibly hard to get out of it.

[@chrisgraham2904]

Not uncommon for otherwise intelligent people to sequester their religious beliefs in a compartment of the brain that cannot be penetrated by logic and rationality. The rest of their brain will twist and turn summersaults to protect the beliefs in that compartment. All the skepticism and logic that they may apply to every other claim that they encounter in life, must never be applied within that locked and guarded compartment.

[@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg]

@@BigSlimyBlob “obviously evil” by what standard? What is a “mind” from your worldview? Do you believe minds exist?

[@BigSlimyBlob]

@@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg By regular human moral standards, the result of empathy, intellect and sometimes even culture. Of course minds exist. The mind is an emergent property of the brain.

[@RicardoMartinez-oy9dg]

@@BigSlimyBlob regular human moral standards? Are you saying all humans have the same moral standard? Can you prove the mind exists?

[@PeerAdder]

5:34 - it's ok to spread god's word at the point of a sword. Now who can't tell right from wrong?

[@itsaboutthattime4425]

You can’t convince me these people are sane.

[@bodricthered]

You are very much not alone.

[@wordrebel]

Just stopped down here to say that we still love you Dave! We miss your insight and candor. Hope you're continuing to life every second to its fullest!

[@kirbirbstomp]

“moral plagues?” “the way we’re dressing??” christ. what is she even on about?? how does modern clothing have anything to do with morality?

[@RecMike]

Cleavage 😱

[@fsharp3797]

Forrest & Warnock are phenomenal & surgical! Hopefully we see them together more so they can work on their chemistry to minimize talking over each other. 👏

[@amtlpaul]

Any person who wants to claim that they have an objective morality, or an objective basis for morality, based on the God they believe in, MUST demonstrate the following in order for their claim to be reasonable: 1) The God they believe in ACTUALLY EXISTS 2) That they have an objective moral system that logically follows from an objectively true fact. If their claim is that it logically follows from their God existing or from the 'nature' of this God, they need to show that this actually does logically follow from that- it's not immediately evident that it would.

[@robr2346]

She might be the stupidest person ever to call the show. She was wrong about everything. I love how she tells the atheist that they cannot objectively be moral at the same time she’s not being objectively moral

[@brianbrown3328]

It's true! I can't tell wright from rong!

[@tbass94]

I remember this call. Terrifying

[@TheLightlock]

an obvious troll or liar if she's saying she loved "aaron ra." his name really shouldn't be such a giveaway but here we are

[@jackwhitbread4583]

Yeah if you don't even know how to say someone's name properly you can't claim to be a fan. If she had seen anything of Aron she would know how often he corrects people who call him Aaron.

[@jonclark8252]

Dear Theists I don’t need a deity to tell me to not murder. Why do you?

[@jaflenbond7854]

@@Steve-sg3uz ATHEISM and RELIGIONS WILL NOT LAST on EARTH FOREVER while LOVING, KIND, SUBMISSIVE, and RESPECTFUL PERSONS WILL LIVE and EXIST on EARTH FOREVER The BIBLE exposes Satan the Devil as the Father of Lies and Murderer of human beings as written in John 8: 44 Billions and billions of Atheists, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions clearly don't respect and value their own lives, dignities, and existence, obviously unbothered, remorseless, and just don't care even if their Satanic LIES and false claims that - 1. the Creator is worthless, useless, and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD in their willful opposition and defiance of what were written in Matthew 22: 37 and John 17: 3 and 2. Jesus Christ is worthless, useless, and undeserving to be honored and respected as the One given by the Creator all authority in heaven and on earth in their willful opposition and defiance of what's written in Matthew 28: 18 bring them dishonor, disgrace, shame, and cause their own downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS. The Creator and Jesus Christ never slander, mock, and degrade Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions as worthless, useless, and undeserving to be honored and respected as human beings simply because the lives, dignities, and existence of human beings are of great worth, value, and importance to the CREATOR who KNOWS that the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43 will definitely bring honor and his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 to lowly, ordinary, kind, submissive, and respectful persons on earth who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King and the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26 guarantees that loving, kind, submissive, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as citizens and subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@jonclark8252]

​@@Steve-sg3uzcool, but that didn't answer my question.

[@jonclark8252]

​@@jaflenbond7854spam comment is spam and didn't answer my question

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

The bible was written for stupid and gullible men who are also cowards.

[@jonclark8252]

@@jaflenbond7854 it seems that you're more interested in spamming than you are in having an actual conversation.

[@Leith_Crowther]

I wouldn’t support the idea that we should imprison all theists just for being theists… but maybe some of them. Like Diana.

[@chrisgraham2904]

Psychiatric institutions are more suitable for psychopaths than prisons.

[@amtlpaul]

Moral thinking begins with the recognition that in addition to one's own needs, desires and preferences, there are other people's to consider as well. Believing that a God exists is absolutely not required for that, as a matter of objective fact.

[@theboombody]

I don't know, I believe we need to show nature itself some gratitude. That's what Native Americans did.

[@mysticjim6164]

Guess she didn't expect the Spanish inquisition.

[@ministryofarguments3525]

Okay, stop. Stop. Stop there - stop there. Stop. Phew! Ah! ...our chief weapons are surprise...blah blah blah. Cardinal, read the charges.

[@AXKfUN9m]

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

Oh Nooo please save me from the horror of the Comfy Chair.

[@nagranoth_]

if you need a storybook to tell you what is good or bad, you're not a good person...

[@theboombody]

What about the story of the boy that cried wolf? Don't kids need to learn that lesson from a story?

[@VivisSymphony]

9:22 This part had me in stitches. What do you think you're doing if you end someone's life because they don't believe what you believe, hm?

[@LeMonS531]

She's clueless and smug... her voice is annoying me

[@simonkoster]

Don't take moral advice from immoral people.

[@mattarnold4903]

Questions atheist morality, yet is a horrible woman. Religion really brings the worst out in people

[@kathyheyne6030]

No. She’s not a horrible woman- I’d bet my bottom dollar on that- that’s what makes her beliefs so scary. This is how Crusades, Holocausts and genocides happen.

[@iitywybmad29]

The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100-2050 BCE. Wikipedia The Code of Hammurabi is a Babylonian legal text composed during 1755-1750 BCE. It is the longest, best-organized, and best-preserved legal text from the ancient Near East. It is written in the Old Babylonian dialect of Akkadian, purportedly by Hammurabi, sixth king of the First Dynasty of Babylon. Wikipedia So, where are the ten commandments and the ark of the covenant? The best that you can do is to say that they were written about in a mid 5th century BCE book.

[@Glasstable2011]

As soon as someone says “we are all born sinners” I immediately can tell the lens with which they see the world and frankly, it’s so depressing to think about

[@LOwens-xf8yo]

It truly is depressing to believe all people are sinful. As far as I can tell most people are decent most of the time, and that’s pretty damn “miraculous” if we are all evil beings. People disobeying social rules or laws is the exception, not the rule.

[@lcars2006]

The indoctrination is STRONG with this one.

[@davidrice6224]

Absolutely terrifying.

[@vidfreak56]

How does she know gods "morality" is correct? Ultimately she only believes in something being immoral because GOD tells her so. So in other words his subjective experience dictates morality according to god. Thats just as arbitrary as anything else.

[@tosuchino6465]

On the top of that, her god's morality is what she believes is god's morality. In other words, her objective morality is what she subjectively believes is objective.

[@LudwigFeuerbach-uf7ri]

religions were, are and will be the perfect basis for fascism

[@keineahnung74]

Yes, US republicans

[@t800fantasm2]

Well, in truth, they do promote the concept of a single all powerful leader, so yeah, I think you are correct....

[@jamesaston410]

@@keineahnung74 Frank Zappa in an interview in 1986 with a few GOP guys said even at that time the US was heading towards being a fascist theocracy. Looking at the GOP now and their Project 2025 plans, how insightful he was.

[@jamesaston410]

@@Steve-sg3uz I think that’s the domain of Catholic priests, atheists wouldn’t want to tread on any feet :)

[@g-mony767]

The thing that scares me the most is that these people are allowed to vote!!🥴

[@csadler]

12:48 this woman is a sociopath. These people scare me.

[@PeerAdder]

8:41 - obviously Diana's dislike of logical contradictions doesn't extend to logical fallacies because here we have a beautiful example of _whataboutism_ that should go in text books on logic: I can't refute what you just said so I'll dodge it entirely by trying to skip to the next totally unrelated talking point, in this case literally by replying with "but what about..."

[@ScienceMan314]

As a fellow Kansan, we don't claim Diana.

[@LawrenceAdele1919]

One more time: if you can get people to believe absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities....

[@theboombody]

You mean absurdities like right and wrong don't really exist?

[@marveloussoftware4914]

If someone said "the crusades were fine" i would say "next caller please." WTF! How can people think this way.

[@graffic13]

I'm confused when did world histories stop being a high school subject? I learned about the crusades in high school and learned how brutal and wrong they were.😂

[@Prcnjau]

This must be a prank call

[@Miss-Placed.1]

Surely

[@Mr_Porter]

Callers like this can be incredibly frustrating, as they often rely on slippery tactics and evasive maneuvers to avoid being pinned down in the discussion. Their constant deflection and dodging only serve to derail productive dialogue. Unfortunately, the opportunity to use the mute button to maintain focus was missed, allowing the conversation to meander. Additionally, she demonstrated a lack of active listening skills from the beginning of the call and appeared to be indoctrinated, which made meaningful engagement nearly impossible. The whole point about the crusades went right over her head. It's surprising the call continued as long as it did, given these challenges.

[@garethmaccoll4374]

The crusades were moral, sure, but have you seen how people are dressing these days?? 😱

[@citypavement]

I know, they're showing full ankle!

[@garethmaccoll4374]

@citypavement it's a moral plague, to be sure!

[@johnchambers9836]

Someone wearing mixed fabric again

[@jvondd]

For me, this raises the question of whether she only believes this because she doesn't want to question her religion or if she already believed this and assumes her religion provides her coverage for harboring these ideas.

[@Steveman27]

She is a prime example of just how horribly religion can fuck up a person.

[@captkalik]

Imagine calling in and saying the crusades were a good thing and saying atheist lack of moral standards

[@hannahjoy91]

This woman should be in prison

[@canderson5098]

That's usually a guaranteed way to make someone become religious.

[@MrCanis4]

I imagine her on the phone with her panties around her ankles. Gives much more fun.

[@Cindy-dk3ko]

Her thoughts disgusting and evil, but you don't go to prison for your thoughts. What kind of world do you want to live in?

[@RosieRoserules]

She sounds like the Utah mom that is in prison that is the point they were trying to make if this is her worldview I am positive she has her children locked up in their bedrooms​@@Cindy-dk3ko

[@hannahjoy91]

@@Cindy-dk3koI'm being hyperbolic.

[@KeithRadzik-o9x]

Listening to the caller's rambling equivocations, apologetics, and blame shifting approach gives new meaning to the rebuke:' Cafeteria Catholic' as she dogmatically restocks the Word Salad Bar.

[@andrewmcmillan6972]

The idea of god existing or a deity of any kind really means that anything is permissible in your mind if god commands it. But for a god to not exist anything cannot go because we actually have to personally hold ourselves accountable. For god to exist it’s easy to shift blame and reject personal responsibility because “god says” it’s good or “the devil” did bad.

[@theboombody]

Accountable for continued survival anyway. But if we get so mad at each other that we stop caring about that, then, well.... there's a reason people worry about World War 3.

[@randyladeroute3686]

Listening to people try to justify their beliefs is like justifying an abusive dad. He abuses the kids and disrespects the wife, but he is a good provider!

[@bubbercakes528]

“Consistent moral integrity” in her mind is doing whatever the church demands. She is insane.

[@denisebaldwin9292]

I’m actually speechless that this woman could defend the crusades. It’s horrifying.

[@csadler]

5:27 this person is evil.

[@joed9305]

Woah. Very moral and consistent.

[@5555522255555]

This is a very sick and disgusting woman defending genocidal murders...and then says she knows what is right or wrong...utterly revolting...

[@chere100]

You know, when I was a believer my moral compass was still intact. So, what is _wrong_ with this woman? She's vile.

[@yinYangMountain]

Dear Theist, If, at the highest and widest level of reality, there have never been any gods or goddesses, what explains why you believe you can tell good from bad?

[@Greatergood3]

The most widely used words when the callers get cornered..”I didn’t call to talk about that”

[@johnmuldowney]

More crusades please

[@quentind1924]

Here before any trolls!

[@AvaEFF]

If the pope CAN speak “dogmatically and infallibly” but also can NOT do that… how the fuck do we ever know what’s “infallible”?? Also, Diana, you’re not being allowed to move on to your question because you don’t have moral standing to ask it. You don’t get to interrogate someone about THEIR morals when you can’t defend your own.

[@citypavement]

That's easy. Whatever you like is infallible and whatever you don't like is just them "going against the church" XD

[@wafflegod1572]

She back peddles so many times. I don't think I can shake my head any harder...

[@VivisSymphony]

It's strange how theists appeal to a god and claim moral superiority, which is akin to saying "I'm morally superior because I lie to myself" and the fact that they can't just accept immoral things as immoral unless their made up deity has told them it's immoral, who's really "morally superior"? Is it the person appealing to a fairy tale in order to justify why something is wrong, or is it the person who accepts that it's wrong, regardless of whatever a divine being or otherwise would have to say. It's like, a massive appeal to authority in a way, because they always justify why their morality is correct, and it's always because the man in the sky said so for some reason.

[@robertgever3889]

You should have asked her about the 15th century law of discovery.

[@dodo1opps]

Call should have ended at 6:15 in...

[@KyouTGD]

An act of harm to another person that is both unwanted and unnecessary to them, that benefits no one but yourself, and that benefit to yourself is entirely in that you feel good for doing it, is the highest form of evil. Such a thing could never be justified, and yet that's why she's saying the Crusades were good.