Atheists React to Mikhaila Peterson's Favorite Pastor

[@mariannacross2538]

mark: the church is too political :( also mark: here is a list of gop ideas i agree with

[@bartzbuddy]

GOP ideas "Christ" agrees with.

[@IndigoFireFandubs]

"It's too political" = "There's too many people that disagree with me and speak about it and I don't like it"

[@kablamo9999]

I mean, if you do believe in Jesus and agree with what he did and said (according to myth) then why would that not influence your political beliefs?

[@theharshtruthoutthere]

@@kablamo9999 BIBLE is the only book which: heals, guides, judge, warns, helps. Bible guides souls out from Babylon. Bible helps to let go from Babylonian entertainments. Bible helps us see, what has value. Bible fills souls with knowledge, with peace. Bible clears out future, for both, for the saved and for the lost. Bible gives us stories from which to learn, and through which GOD warns us, the generations lived after. Don+t stay muslim, catholic, Hindu, new ager, atheists, ignorant, satanic, Mormons, dont be a thief and a robber. John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. Religions are masonic lies, false ways into heaven which masons have made. Follow not nor believe masons, who give you lies after lies. Seek out CHRIST, follow HIM and leave lies behind and your old life in the BABYLON: Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

[@SNESpool]

The existence of literal hundreds of different sects of Christianity who all interpret Jesus's teachings to mean different things really shine a light on the fact that there's nothing objective about "following the teachings of Jesus". They can be shaped towards any goal or bias you like. Which is precisely why society NEEDS to be secular, because when politicians based their policy decisionson their "religious convictions", they're really just acting on their own biases and then appealing to religion, so as to shirk responsibility for their personal beliefs (i.e. "*controversial opinion*" followed immediately by "hey, I'm just telling you what Jesus said. It's in the Bible." as if that lends a sense of objectivity to their opinions.) @@kablamo9999

[@victoriagray2485]

One of my old pastors told me to not research other religions because I would get confused and lose my faith. Huge red flag when someone tells you what to believe and then tells you not to look into it lol

[@darkstarr984]

Oof. It’s the biggest red flag out there. Mostly I grew up with people so convinced they’re right they encouraged me to question everything, look for context, to dig deep into topics and find as factual information as I could, told me how the highest values are individual freedom and respect for one another… and then got shocked that I did all that and have wound up a leftist. Because it turns out they’re not bothering to do that kind of work at all.

[@EatHoneyBeeHappy]

"Two bathrooms at Target like the old days". Someone should tell that guy that in the old days, people used a single outhouse for both men and women, and before that, people just pissed and shat wherever they found a good spot, outside in full view of all the genders.

[@jaclo3112]

The there were the separate bathrooms for black people and white people. A cultural norm in the US upheld by white christians. Driscoll would be considered "woke" by christians 60 years ago. He would have been deemed a heretics just over 100 yrs ago.

[@toadsfortheroads]

Yeahhhhh it’s almost sad how out of touch he sounds.

[@booooo-urns]

Ahhh the good ole days of shitting wherever

[@JovanDacic]

​@@booooo-urns Well, yeah, that was before Thatcher and Reagan and Limbaugh instated the first open-air gender-neutral toilets.

[@andrewkoster6506]

my house has a single bathroom for all genders. Yeah, I'm a woke, it's a woke bathroom, pretty new and unusual

[@EastSide-qc5oy]

Mark Driscoll definitely gives off the vibe of someone for whom the religious beliefs and principles are merely a vehicle for his own narcissism. I’ve heard the term “evangelical celebrity machine” in reference to his career and I think the operative word is celebrity. Also we can’t downplay the Ca-Ching factor. I’ll bet his wife has stories about the guy’s ego, but she’s probably all in on the gravy train express herself.

[@theantibot]

Agree! In the Rise and Fall of Mars Podcast there was a bit of discussion on him being a narcissist, and I think it definitely tracks with what he does and how he speaks.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

Agree 100%.

[@joshuaallgood7030]

“If there is a god for you… then everything is permitted.” - Slavoj Zizek

[@raultrashlord4404]

Righteous Gemstones moment

[@someonerandom256]

The whole wanting to have sex with someone else being the reason for atheism idea just cracks me up. For the 17 years of my marriage that I was a Christian I only slept with my husband, and now that I've been an atheist for the past 2+ years I've still only slept with my husband...

[@someonerandom256]

But it took another year and a half for me to be brave enough and honest enough to address my gender identity, do some research and figure out what the label is for what I've always been, which is agendered.

[@beccascraps8141]

Same! And that’s including discovering I’m bi.

[@JohnWaaland]

@@someonerandom256 Hi. I generally know what you're referring to but would you just comment on how being agendered unfolded for you❓Thanks 😬

[@azureblue4151]

Similar energy to me realizing that I am not super talented at abstinence and "purity", I am just Aro-Ace and don't find myself attracted enough to anyone to have that sort of temptation in the first place. But yeah, I left the church for what now???

[@someonerandom256]

@@JohnWaaland Sorry just saw this. Well I had never felt like I had a gender, and I knew that, I just didn't know there was a name for it. I was kind of afraid that by Googling to see if there was a term for it, I'd be opening a can of worms I wasn't ready to deal with. In reality it hasn't changed much about my life in any way, but the concrete knowledge has brought me internal peace. While I have always acknowledged that my biological sex is female, in my head there just isn't a gender. I'm just me, and I just am. I just exist. I was what they call a tomboy, but boy or girl never fit. I tend to just like most things regardless of the stereotypically attached gender. It's like there's a void where my gender should be. I'm just very neutral. I had short hair when I was young, and waitresses would always mistake me for a boy. I was totally fine with that, but when my mom would say "She's a girl," I would get super embarrassed, not because I identified more with being a boy, but because I was uncomfortable with having my gender discussed at all, especially like I wasn't there. I'm fine with any and all pronouns and really any assumptions about my gender. None of that really offends me, but I still don't like people discussing my gender like it's set in stone and my opinion on it doesn't matter. I don't consider myself bi or queer or gender fluid or pan etc. My identity doesn't change from day to day and I always feel the same about my gender identity. I just don't feel like those labels fit right, but I am very much what they call demi-sexual. I really need a connection of some sort before I'm attracted to anyone. I think it's very common for neurodivergent people to be non-binary in some way, and I have ADHD and potentially autism, so that may be why I am the way I am. I just basically don't have a gender identity, which makes me agender by default in my mind.

[@kermitthorson9719]

yea, mark doesnt virtue signal as he wears a thin blue line hat while doing everything in his power to not pay taxes to fund those police

[@kermitthorson9719]

correct, every single large church service like Marks churches are purely for show and not for worshipping. his style of church is virture signalling

[@rorygiambalvo2955]

​@@kermitthorson9719 Did...did you just agree with yourself? Or did someone reply and then delete their comment? Either way yes I also agree.

[@kermitthorson9719]

@@rorygiambalvo2955 who said that, where am i?

[@dorianleakey]

​@@rorygiambalvo2955I will sometimes stumble on what I said hours earlier and think "this guy's a fucking genius! He get it! HE GETS IT!!!" And write about how smart their comment is.

[@DerrickMims]

@@dorianleakey😅 I have sometimes come across comments on YT that said exactly what I thought, and I’d start to reply. Then I’d realize that I wrote the post…two years before!

[@daveveloz]

15 years ago I was a fan of Driscoll. Watching him now feels like listening to the music I used to think was incredible in high school. Watching now is literally turning my stomach.

[@sarahsj8109]

The irony of being anti-intellectual and also thinking you know everything 😂 i don't know why these things always go together, it's narcissism.

[@WhiteScorpio2]

"i don't know why these things always go together" If you already know everything, there is nothing more left to learn.

[@toadsfortheroads]

It’s a great way to never have to have your beliefs challenged... because if facts don’t matter than whatever you think can just be right forever no need to look further into it

[@E_Does_YT]

Dunning-Krueger effect 🤷

[@silverstorm3729]

I always feel like the "they just wanna have sex" excuse is so prevalent because of projection...I've met some Christians who look down on athiests, but even they have laughed at that specific line, exactly because it's not convincing to them. It's an argument that only flies if you, personally, are already tempted to leave your religion because of sex, and you assume everyone else has the same hang-up but isn't willing to admit it.

[@charliemallonee2792]

I left before I even knew much of anything about what sex was. Yeah, maybe Christian sex education wasn’t the best, but it certainly didn’t influence my leaving.

[@silverstorm3729]

​@@charliemallonee2792 Same for me, I was pretty uninterested and even repulsed by sex when I deconverted. Nowadays its a different story, but sex didn't factor into my thoughts one way or the other at the time. To elaborate a bit more, I get the feeling a lot of Christians - at least many of the ones that make these channels anyway - feel obsessed about it. They seem deeply repressed, with most of their restrictions and discussions centering on sex - who to have it with, when you can have it, how you can have it, ect. They frame society's "degregation" and straying away from Christianity in terms of loose sexuality, divorce, contraception, so on. It seems like they aren't really happy with their restrictive sex lives and need to justify that frustration as somehow moral. It's pretty weird and telling that they assume everyone else is as obsessed about it as they are, much less that anyone would choose to go to an eternal hell in exchange for sex. It's...really misanthropic, come to think of it.

[@Bermudatriangle88]

Same! When I left the church I realised they were the ones obsessed with sex! They make EVERYTHING about it. Even a young girls shoulders at a youth camp somehow becomes a sexual sin causing her brothers to stumble 🙈

[@alanamontero4743]

​@@silverstorm3729 Christianity itself, purity culture, and enforced celibacy make people think about sex more. I'm was a young adult convert and when I was a Christian I thought about sex all the time. (It was actually a major factor in me leaving Christianity but only one amongst multiple factors. I did leave at 36 however and I have a very high sex drive and ADHD. It will be less of an issue for other people.) Now I'm a godless heathen degenerate deconvert, I think about sex a lot less. Firstly, I'm not constantly trying to repress my thoughts and feelings, so they just flow past and through without much struggle. Secondly, even if I'm not having sex with someone else, I can masturbate, which means that I can "take care of things" and move on instead of being antsy for hours on end and trying really hard not to think of sex while chewing on ice. It's ironic that it's religion itself that produces the obsession and we're actually less obsessed with sex than they are. As a Christian, I did things like run off a train because a hot man in a tight t-shirt sat next to me and I could not stop thinking sexual thoughts. Now I could be surrounded by sexy half naked people and be fine.

[@tiryaclearsong421]

My dad has an even weirder version of this. People leave the church or change religions so they can sleep in on Sundays. Nevermind that many churches start later than a large number of other religious observances and that plenty of atheists are morning people while many Christians are night owls... Even the church he goes to has a night church option and he wakes up at 5-6 but goes to an 11am service. I've never understood his hangup there. Honestly I'm not sure I know a single person who left the church for anything close to a desire to sleep in. I have always found it interesting that that is his assumption.

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

Referring to fired employees as "dead bodies behind the Mars Hill bus"? Yikes! Run a mile from this guy!

[@presentfuture7563]

This man has never not been a walking red flag.

[@andrewkoster6506]

yeah, he was going to literally murder people instead of firing them, but the "woke mob" (in this case, the courts and the police) said no

[@jessicaivgi8372]

I mean, Mikhaila Peterson has literally said that she doesn't trust the motives of social workers and other modestly-paid public service workers because their intentions must be shady if theyre not trying to make loads of money. So yeah, when she complains about feeling like pastors were "trying to sell her something", she doesn't mean it in the same way a normal human being would mean it. They probably just weren't performatively cruel enough for her taste.

[@moirasoma2863]

Those Petersons are really something, arent they? Awful people.

[@wartgin]

Maybe the issue is that, unlike Mark, they weren't obviously trying to sell her something so she was looking for the hidden sales objective.

[@dangilmore246]

As a life long atheist, all I can say about their "want to have sex" conclusion is that I never "left" religion in the first place. Not only that, but I'm a cis het guy in a monogamous relationship with a cis het woman; I'm having sex with everyone I want to have sex with (my spouse), and I don't need his religion to tell me about that. (BTW, monogamy works for me and my wife -- this isn't a suggestion that it would work for other people.)

[@awkwardukulele6077]

Always love it when life long atheists live the Christian life better than these “holy men.” Also, congrats to you and your wife. You both sound lovely 😊

[@therealivydawg]

I had more sex when I identified as a Christian. I've been an atheist for about 16 years and I don't care about sex anymore.

[@koumeiseidai]

Same, I was raised secular (my mom turned her back on the mormon church the day she turned 16, and my raised methodist father never cared for the nonsense) and I just had my 20th anniversary with my gf.

[@HumanimalChannel]

Calling yourself CIS is so sickening. There is no such thing, its made up, completely unnexessary. Why are you pandering to a Cult? It makes you seem weak. All you have to do is say "Man". Next you will be using "super straight" 🙄

[@jackcinephile7554]

Monogamy does work, though.

[@SB-qx5xz]

I love just asking people "why?" when they say something ridiculous. Just one word can destroy an entire argument.

[@bebeenderson7863]

Ooh I’ll try that

[@jamesregiste960]

My son found the key when he was a toddler, talking to him was having to explain why people do what they do, glad to say that I took pleasure in his boundless curiosity ,and did my best to furnish him with cogent answers.

[@Wonderoddity]

@@jamesregiste960bless you. Nothing frustrated me more as a child than when I asked “why?” And was met with “because.”

[@howarddierking7409]

I was at Mars Hill from 06 to its collapse. It’s rich hearing Driscoll speculate on the reason behind deconstruction when I can immediately call up a whole bunch of people where he was the direct cause of their deconstruction

[@cliveadams7629]

He's done some good in the world, then.

[@tess4ri]

my dad is a pastor, i came out at 18 to my parents and started walking a long road to deconstruction (ten years ago). your guys videos are my weekly highlight!

[@zodfanza]

How are you handling it? Were they supportive? Props to you for knowing so much at 18, I only learned a bunch of stuff about myself (including that I'm now an atheist) in my early 30s. Was raised in an evangelical cult.

[@tess4ri]

@@zodfanza this was in 2015 that i came out. they weren’t supportive at all but have learned little by little over the years how to deal with it! it’s been ten years now so i think they’ve just learned to “love the sinner hate the sin” at this point 😅😂

[@izalazuizal]

Your parents gotta watch Prayers for Bobby for sure

[@nineinchthread]

​@@tess4ri my parents are like that in a way too but like it hard to explain type thing as they have some extreme believes not as bad as some people like my partner mom but still some issues

[@EastSide-qc5oy]

@@izalazuizal Sigourney Weaver ❤️

[@contrebombarde6950]

"...you have to be a part of their very modern political tribe or else you are not a part of their ancient religion"--that is stellar and spot-on quote!

[@Florkl]

I love how Mark is trying to describe the types of churches as a spectrum without calling it a spectrum. Probably because if you normalize the concept of most things being a spectrum rather than binary you have to looking at stuff like gender and sexuality.

[@kevinramsey417]

Technically all the denominations are a spectrum, just one where everyone thinks they're right and everyone else is wrong.

[@robertdullnig3625]

It's also weird since usually when invoking the idea of a spectrum in rhetoric, the middle is usually the more desirable area.

[@josephpostma1787]

I understand sex to be a largely binary description with some notable exceptions. I also understand gender in this same way with a slightly different definition. I can understand gender to be something of a social construct in that it describes a relation to the thoughts or actions of the usual male, female or intersex human. While there are some cultures without a gender binary, if gender looses it's connotations to sex, it would seem that gender looses it meaning. My question is, why alter the meaning of gender (if it even has been altered). I would appreciate a kind and helpful response.

[@robertdullnig3625]

@@josephpostma1787 These are descriptive rather than prescriptive terms. So if a significant amount of people experience gender (which as you say is cultural) as a spectrum, then it's a spectrum. Furthermore, some aspects of biological sexual expression can also be more like a spectrum, such as prominence of the penis/clitoris. In either case, the more correct term would be bimodal rather than binary. This indicates a tendency toward two forms of expression rather than an absolute division. Unless, of course you are talking about gender in a culture where there is truly a third gender or only one gender.

[@jeffreylehman1159]

@@josephpostma1787 Some Native American tribes had a gender designation for a person who was biologically male, but lived a “female “ gendered social role, including dress, work and social roles, and would partner with a male, in the “wife” role. So basically they recognized that some people are transgender before the term was even thought of. The takeaway is that not everyone fits into the binary, and this is not something new.

[@d.awdreygore]

My late Grandparents were the "love thy neighbour" type of Christians. I hope some of those are still around.

[@diemdia]

I’m not a Christian, but I still meet plenty of this type. They’re just easier to miss because they aren’t loud and obnoxious like these guys are lol. But definitely still out there

[@charliemallonee2792]

@@diemdia My grandparents were Quakers - literally the least loud and obnoxious branch because they believe silence is a virtue. Also, allowing an atheist member such as myself was pretty damn loving for Christians.

[@alanamontero4743]

Mark Driscoll would call them "soft woke".

[@diemdia]

@@alanamontero4743 the man is unhinged

[@alanamontero4743]

@@diemdia I agree.

[@fantasticmio]

*waves in asexual atheist

[@mackinm00se]

Huh?

[@justtryingmybest1151]

My thoughts exactly

[@FrumiousMing8]

Yes! As an asexual who used to be a Christian, I can say with certainty that Christians are way more obsessed with sex than non-christians. One of the big reasons I started deconstructing was because of their views on sex, especially as it relates to women. But it wasn't because I wanted to have sex with whoever I wanted, quite the opposite in fact.

[@toryalyn]

My gf and I are both asexual and atheist af💜💜

[@NoodleKeeper]

Clearly you're not real : )

[@Saezimmerman]

Leave it to Driscoll to declare that people’s access to the “light of the gospel” is in direct correlation to how much they agree with him.

[@joanfregapane8683]

Bingo! This seems true for all too many so-called Christian leaders.

[@saltoftheegg]

So basically, none of the pastors she saw before Mark were openly cruel enough for her to like them. They probably talked about love and acceptance and stuff EW

[@Faint366]

I bet it was stuff like his line about asking questions be where all the problems start in genesis. I can already hear Jordan Peterson saying that exact line

[@toadsfortheroads]

Reducing lgbtq people to who they want to have sex with is such a strangely juvenile way of dehumanizing the community in order to reassure yourself that you’re not bigoted... while also reassuring yourself that your religion is true without ever having to face the cruelty the tenants of said religion inflicts on people.

[@carpevinum8645]

I left the church at 12. But internalised homophobia and biphobia still affected my self worth well into adulthood (accepting of myself now, but in my 30s). Wasn't helped by the external biphobia present, even in my mostly secular communities. The biggest issue being the conflation between sexuality and sexual activity. Sexuality has almost become a misnomer. Really happy that you both had each other through your deconversion from religion and finding yourselves after.

[@vintagearisen]

Oh the irony of her complaining about pastors who lie and then going for MARK DRISCOLL. JFC.

[@waynesmith6417]

Your Atheist, I'm Theist, but we agree, this guy is a piece of work. Good video. Keep up the good work.

[@coleford4258]

"They make it sound so much simpler..." Nailed it. Guys like this never address what it takes to deconstruct and how internally violent that process can be. It's a common story that former Christians will fight tooth and nail to maintain their belief. The problem there is that we don't choose what to believe. You are either convinced of something or you aren't. It can be a wild upheaval for people to lose their faith, and people like this who act as though it's a very simple choice rooted in something like wanting to have sex with someone is a very scumbag way to act.

[@shadamyandsonamylover]

This is so true. My deconstruction contributed to feeling suicidal for nearly 4 years. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone and it wasn’t easy (although sex was a part of it, I havent had any consensual sex since leaving the faith) nor was it simple. People who think it’s just because we’re all horny are willfully ignorant. And what’s sad is that we are literally taught to think and believe that. No matter your denomination.

[@coleford4258]

@@shadamyandsonamylover sorry you had to go through that. I didn't really battle depression or anything like that with my deconversion. I had general sadness as a result of changed relationships, but overall I went from confusion to anger at people introducing me to concepts like compassion, and unconditional love actively attacking marginalized groups, and generally behaving in a way that is contrary to what I was taught.

[@shadamyandsonamylover]

@@coleford4258 thank you. I think for me my relationships did not change too much. I was already emotionally estranged from my family despite their “good intentions” and I moved across the country to start anew. Thankfully my friends are accepting and my siblings are slowly coming around. My parents don’t know lol The cognitive dissonance is real when it comes to marginalization. I completely agree with Drew (in other videos) where he says that if it only causes “spiritual harm” then you can’t quantify that and it’s a stupid reason to pit yourself against others. My sister has now come out to me as bi and I’m the only one who knows since she couldn’t possibly tell our family. It’s very sad.

[@coleford4258]

@@shadamyandsonamylover my parents also don't know. Well I can't imagine my mom hasn't figured it out given that she's been pestering me to "find a church" for the last 10 years, and routinely asks when I'm going to get my daughter in church. I'm content to let her live in whatever delusion bubble she's got if it makes her feel better. 99% of the time it doesn't cause any issues so no harm no foul there. The relationships I mourn are others where I had mentors, and people I looked up to that "fell from grace" in my eyes. Same with a lot of peers. Over the years I've actively had confrontations with a lot of people that I used to think were the best of the best. A lot of that had to do with their religious objections to things not lining up with their claims of love, compassion, forgiveness, and empathy. LGBTQ issues, abortion rights issues, immigration issues, and electing legislators to enact laws based on your religious interpretations are things that I just won't "keep the peace" over. Fun little recent anecdote: My sister just held her daughter's 4th birthday party at her and my parents' church. No problem. Went, had a good time, and found out my sister is expecting a 2nd kid. The whole time an older couple that helped raise me, and taught me a lot literally went out of their way to not be near me, not talk to me, and even refused to interact with my 3 year old as she ran around playing. All because over the years I've butted heads with them over all the issues mentioned above. Since I'm younger than them and won't keep my mouth shut while they spew their nonsense, I'm disrespecting them. Part of me cares and is hurt by it, but I have convictions (which they're responsible for teaching me) and I refuse to not engage. These are the types of things that still bother me, and make me so angry. In any case, not to make it all about me. I'm glad you're able to be there for your sister, and I'm glad you made it through (it sounds like it anyway) your battle with depression. It's a shame that deconversion carries so much baggage.

[@shadamyandsonamylover]

@@coleford4258 wow that’s tough. I’m sorry to hear that. I hope things continue to get better for both of us

[@milkenobi]

“They just wanna have sex with whoever I want.” Remember, every conversation accusation is a veiled confession.

[@830toAwesome]

It's even more amusing coming from a dude who looks like Gilligan if he'd shipwrecked on an island made entirely out of meth.

[@puffball4484]

Right it's like im not religious but I've never even had a sexual partner and I'm in my 20s. He's exposing himself fr.

[@Staremperor]

Yeah! I totally stopped believing because I wanted to have sex with anybody. That's why I'm married for twelve years and I only had sex with my wife and noone else. Makes total sense!

[@brxtsie]

love the outfit and hair

[@theantibot]

Thank you!

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

I was thinking that too! You always look incredible!

[@Ashaliyeva]

Agreed!!

[@mikean7074]

Just not the huge, honking, porcine septum piercing. The small ones can be cute but I have no idea why the huge ones have started to become popular, I have a hard time not staring at it which can get awkward when it comes to real life interactions.

[@pirateunicorn42]

​@@mikean7074 looks badass to me she rocks it

[@JoyfulArtist21]

I always wonder what people like this think of me. An asexual person who has never been interested in the idea of having sex with another person and have known that since I was a teenager. Still a virgin in my 30's, and yet is now an agnostic atheist despite growing up in Evangelicalism. Do they think I just left for sexual reasons? Do they even know asexuals exist? Probably not.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

When I hear this people It always leaves me thinking this sort of thing as well! Like do they know not all people in the world live in christian united states? I was raised in a very secular country. Is my country hell for this people? It is also a very “woke” country. Do they think we are the “dark side of civilization”? How do they think we live? Do they really DO NOT KNOW other places exist?

[@knitwit1912]

From the little I've seen of fundies addressing asexuality (most aren't aware it exists), their takes are definitely a mishmash of "but you should have sex when you're married so you can make babies" and confusion about what asexuality is. I don't think they know what to do with us. I mean, they already think women should just have sex whenever their husband wants it even if she doesn't want it (because to them all men are hypersexual) so being asexual to them probably just seems like...a lot of women in their churches. 😒

[@JoyfulArtist21]

@@anainesgonzalez8868 I grew up with a lot of missionaries who liked to travel to other countries to spread the gospel and even translate the Bible into different obscure languages. It really depends on the Christian, but a lot of them see those outside the US as "lost souls" who haven't heard the gospel and need to be saved. Though when they look at more progressive countries, they tend to think they are all Communist or something and fearmonger about them. Not looking into the data of how y'all actually live. Lots of us Americans tend to live in a bubble. I, myself, have learned SO MUCH about the world at large since leaving the church. My world was so tiny before. And hearing how other people in other countries don't have as much obsession with religion (especially Christianity) has been interesting. Christians basically live in another reality. When you believe that there's a spiritual war, good and evil, angels and demons, etc, it really does shape how you see everything.

[@luna-p]

Oh they definitely don't like you (or me) either. I'd say you could check the Daily Wire for their opinion on that, but don't check the Daily Wire for anything ever if you value your sanity.

[@charliemallonee2792]

I thought they worshipped and glorified virginity XD

[@TyLeeslilsis]

Ah, so that's Trinity church. My old church was OBSESSED with being just like Mars Hill up until his controversy then they very quickly shifted gears and decided that Hillsong church was the Absolute top tier goal to achieve. It was so tiresome. The pastor there took a looot of inspiration from Driscol and it started to show in his "in your face" behavior he began to adapt. It scared a lot of kids off. It turned a lot of leaders away (myself included among many many other things I dealt with personally). And he then began to adapt to the "You're either on the bus or you're run over by the bus" mentality. Their add-on campus is shutting down and I'm low-key like... Excited about it lol.

[@project_nihilist]

*Rule of Acquisition 208:* _Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer_

[@savagecobra4215]

Rule of Acquisition 1: Once you have their money, never give it back. Quite applicable to megachurch pastors.

[@kevinramsey417]

She...isn't wrong actually....about church services at least. I've sat through good sermons and I've sat through bad sermons throughout my lifetime. Christians call it an "anointing" but all it is is talent. Some pastors have it, some don't. Although thankfully none of my pastors were monsters like Mark Driscoll.

[@miguelthealpaca8971]

Pastor: You left the faith for sex. Me: I miss the part where that's my problem.

[@PhillipMoore-td5yi]

They often encourage you to join the faith for reasons other than the truth of their claims but seem to be enraged when you leave for reasons other than the truth. I don't see the reason that Christians can go "Jesus makes me feel great " as part of their reasons for Christianity but can't take it when atheists say a life contradictory to theirs makes them feel good and that's part of why they aren't christian.

[@miguelthealpaca8971]

@@PhillipMoore-td5yi yeah, that's a good point.

[@j.s.c.4355]

I hate the term, “woke.” It’s been so co-opted… The same thing has happened to CRT. Most of the people talking about CRT don’t even know what it is. Tucker Carlson described it to them inaccurately and now it’s the bogeyman.

[@OceanusHelios]

It's much less infuriating if you don't get caught up in these fascist turds and their co-opting of the English language for the sake of their own rhetoric or get caught up in their nonsense. It's much easier to just make fun of them and the silly way they try to piece together some kind of argument that is only valid in their version of reality. The place to get them is by what they mean and ask them to go into the finite although very numerous minute details. They tend to get flustered very quickly by meaningful and direct questions because they view themselves as authorities.

[@andrewkoster6506]

Before "woke", they used the term "SJW", and before that, "politically correct". They'll stop using "woke" once enough people catch on, and then it's on to the next grift where we rename leftists/minorities/women to some new scary-sounding term until people once again figure out that it's just bigotry and then the cycle starts again.

[@Itsmenate17]

The real bogeyman is me on the golf course tbh

[@slavbarbie]

Same happened to "identity politics" and "intersectionality". Misused, abused, appropriated, bastardized.

[@EternalDensity]

we've got people like Christopher Rufo to blame

[@alanamontero4743]

Sex *was* a factor for me. As a young adult convert with a very high sex drive (with ADHD) who had to suffer year after year with not only being celibate but not even being allowed to have a sexual thought, and by my 30s realising that this would also probably be my future too - this added to the relentless suffering and misery that was being a Christian. Plus, having to deny many aspects of my sexuality to squeeze it into a narrow box of "correct and not sinful". I was literally envious of pedos getting castration drugs and repeatedly prayed and begged God for help. It wasn't the sole reason and alone wouldn't have made me leave but it was a major reason. It's not reasonable to expect everyone who isn't lucky enough to be straight and find a spouse/get picked as a spouse to spend their entire lives not even having a sexual thought. Not long before I deconverted I cracked the shits in a women's church meeting after a woman who married at 20 went on about how lifelong celibacy isn't a big sacrifice, that God rewards you, and if you trust in God it won't be a struggle. (This was in regards to single women , with a side mention of gay people.) I stood up, went on a short rant about how what she was saying was bs and why, and walked out of the church. People sitting there silent and open-mouthed. Afters years of hearing the same old shit over and over again from people who have no clue what it's like, something cracked at that point and I just couldn't tolerate it any more. There's no good reason to inflict ongoing lifelong suffering on people for no good reason. It's also pretty unjust that abled cishet white men are by far the least likely to be affected by this and extended singleness (at least in my country) clearly shows itself along gender, class, race, ethnicity, disability, and neurodivergence lines. It's not just singleness and celibacy too but most aspects of life: there are some with certain characteristics who get the "blessed" life and associated status and there are others who get little to nothing and get low status and being overloaded with church grunt work as a reward. Looking at and reflecting on the bigger picture of the have and have-nots in the church and that it seemed like an even worse version of patterns in "the world" and looking at the patterns of who has "answered" prayers and who does not* and then thinking about the whole world beyond my country...I came to the conclusion that either God was an unjust arsehole who played favourites the exact same way as "the world" and held the same prejudices, and would reward the privileged few with so much including car parks, while leaving most Christians in the world to deprivation and suffering or deliberately inflicting it on them, or God doesn't exist and it's just people and the environment around us doing all this. Upon realising that absolutely nothing would look different in these patterns if God didn't exist, I came to the conclusion that God doesn't exist. *I prayed a lot and was in prayer ministry. I kept a detailed record. Mostly, the chance of a concrete (not vague feels)!prayer being "answered" is no better than random chance and the more privileged someone is the more likely it is that their prayers or prayers for them will be "answered". And marginalised people praying for desperate needs (including basic things like work and safe housing) were the least likely to have prayers "answered". Rich couple wants to find a fancy new apartment to upgrade from their already more than adequate apartment. 👍 Homeless person wants *any* housing. 👎 Person on six-figure salary wants a big raise. 👍 Person who has been unemployed for months and is at serious risk of eviction because they can't afford their rent and bills wants a job. 👎 (These are real examples from my own experience. Notably also the same results you'd expect without any prayer.)

[@sophiaisabelle01]

It's interesting to hear the atheists' insights on all things considered religious. I come from a religious family myself, and I have huge respect for people who may have differentiating views. It kinda challenges some of the things that we still have yet to find full understanding of in its entirety.

[@mikolmisol6258]

As an atheist, I also have a lot of respect for religious people and am not one to tell them that I see no reason for them to believe what they believe. Anectodally, it's my religious family who always has to start poking at my worldview for me to call theirs out. Of course, I do not think they are representative of religious people at large. But what I have no respect whatsoever for is when people tell me that atheism is also a religion or that I believe things on faith. I don't. Not one. Anyway, my view is that all people deserve respect, but no opinions may ever deserve respect.

[@tennicksalvarez9079]

Yooo good to hear

[@OceanusHelios]

I have respect for people themselves in general. I do not have to respect their beliefs or their religion. In general a religion would leave you to believe that you are your beliefs. Throughout a person's life their beliefs will usually change. The same person in question might have a larcenous nature and still profess to believe a certain way while acting another way. Beliefs are all fine and dandy for what is inside your head and some people consider it a blueprint. As far as forcing beliefs goes that will always result in failure every single time. Sure you can chase people into your temples at the point of a gun and force them to submit, but you will be resented for it. Sure you can burn books, but objective reality will not be on your side. Sure you can try to erase other cultures and beliefs at the point of a weapon and it might work. But it won't solve any fundamental problems for society. It will just result in the loss of something that didn't have to be lost. I can respect a person but considering the track record of religions I have absolutely no use for religion or attempts to grab onto the supernatural when most folks can't even quit being so lazy and use their mental energy to understand the natural world which is in fact inescapable until the day you die. After that who knows. People say that they know but that is just hubris and wishful thinking. The other problem I have with religion is every single religion wants and encourages everybody else to think like them and their way is "The Way." It is very inconvenient to note that people got on fine before the religion was brought into existence.

[@JohnWaaland]

@@OceanusHelios Hi. Yea, and most of this confusion over religion is brought on when people take it on literal terms. Like Jesus REALLY DID walk on water back in the day. 😳 Otherwise, mythology stories/religion is part of various old writings and in general is interesting and of course is taught all over the world, books are written and movies made without things like miracles being taken as literal‼️😬

[@OCLECTOR]

As an agnostic atheist, I wish that I could be religious to have that trust and sense of peace and feeling that I am protected. But, I really can’t. I just do not get it. I need evidence and well put together arguments.

[@amy_pieterse]

Reading the bible and learning more about it led to my deconstruction and deconversion.

[@huntergoshorn8015]

Yeah same. I remember having a service by the Columbus Ohio convention center and then going to a nearby place to have lunch and a study group for getting baptized. It was my first study group ever but they were all so callous. I had questions about Job and wanted to go through it with them. Clearly they didn't agree with that as they wanted me to read about stuff Paul wrote in Corinthians(?). I also didn't have enough money for my nachos and none of them wanted to give me the extra 2 dollars so I had to call my family. What great loving people that avoided all my questions and wouldn't even give me a couple bucks that I said Id get back to them the next week. That was honestly the day I completely gave up on faith as everywhere I went people avoided my questions and couldn't show any "love of God"

[@OceanusHelios]

I've tried my hardest to become a Christian at least five times in my life. No matter how many times I tried to stick that spoon in my mouth it still tasted like bullshit.

[@BR-gz3cv]

“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” -Isaac Asimov.

[@diemdia]

That’s the other frustrating thing about the “never real Christians in the first place” claim. Most of the people I know who’ve deconstructed/de-converted are the ones who were the *most* devout, the *most* educated on theology, and the *most* familiar with the scripture. Usually it was an effort to really understand scripture better and deep dive into it that eventually leads people out. But that’s a pretty threatening thing to acknowledge, so it’s easier for them to just point fingers and deny that anyone who’s left the faith was really in it to begin with

[@milkenobi]

@@diemdia Yeah, I lived overseas and put my whole family on a bus and put us all at risk and at times struggled for money and just basic needs in order to reach people for God. My deconstruction was long and painful and I didn't want to leave the faith. Stories like ours are SO inconvenient to their fundamentalist world view.

[@jdm5570]

At 20 mins, I think you guys should look into "Sunk Cost fallacy". That might be why religions with more demands/restrictions retain their people longer.

[@not_you_i_dont_even_know_you]

Definitely was part of why I kept trying to make christianity work for me even as I drifted further and further away morally and philosophically. To confront the idea of "wasted time and energy" was too upsetting for a long time.

[@Saezimmerman]

So glad you mentioned that! I was about to look up the name of it.

[@alanamontero4743]

Sunk cost fallacy DEFINITELY kept me in the church for longer than would have otherwise been the case. Not that it really was a conscious process but in hindsight I can see that it played a huge role. I was a young adult convert and had given up everything. Not only that, leaving meant losing my friends and social circle, my Ministry & Theology degree being pretty much worthless, my resume ruined because I had a decade of nothing but working for churches & parachurch orgs, had not had anything like a "normal" dating life since my teens, and I was 36 by the time I left Christianity. Having to start life over again at 36 (with bonus trauma!) sucks and, ironically, it would've sucked significantly less had I left in my early 30s when the sunk cost fallacy really came into play. Also the year after I left (I left in 2019) the pandemic started because fml and that made it hurt more.

[@kermitthorson9719]

i havent gone to the bathroom in a target in literally years. i actually cant even remember the last time besides malls that i stopped shopping to use the restroom. how is it that big of a freaking deal to them

[@vintagearisen]

They, like, REALLY care where you shit.

[@calliemyersbuchanan6458]

the funny thing is my local target has 3 bathrooms: multi stall women, multi stall men, and single stall "family" which has a toilet and changing table, and many only have the gendered ones. so I'm not sure what the crap he's even talking about with "the way it used to be"! We've ALWAYS had gender neutral bathrooms, we just didn't call them that. You what we called them? BATHROOMS! In fact, split m/f bathrooms are a very recent thing! not to my point but kinda relevant, I was at a trader joes and they had men snd women's bathrooms...that were both identical single stall rooms that one person could enter at a time and lock the heavy door behind them. WHAT WAS THE POINT OF GENDER LABELING THEM?! After a while i just stopped caring and used whichever was unoccupied. lol

[@ferninthehouse]

@@calliemyersbuchanan6458 i think my target might have a family bathroom too but ive never used it. but most places dont have that

[@kermitthorson9719]

@@calliemyersbuchanan6458 when i worked overnight at a panera, i was either working with 1 guy or 1 lady. when i worked with the guy i took advantage of the situation and used the women's stalls as we were locked inside overnight.

[@aurifulgore]

​@@ferninthehouse most super targets have them in my experience, but a lot of the smaller regular targets dont.

[@arcanisrivet]

When you mentioned that people are less likely to leave churches they have made sacrifices for, I immediately thought of the sunken cost fallacy.

[@blamtasticful]

He was a diehard Calvinist and judged Christians for not being Calvinists and he did a complete 180 on that as well.

[@floralpatterns21]

I love your new aesthetic! Edgy ladies unite 💪😂

[@c.w.8200]

Her style is amazing, I wish I had the confidence and creativity to do something like that.

[@jaanaberg6125]

I love how these kinds of people will use terms like "the alphabet soup people" in an effort to villanise or make fun of us but jokes on them we're actually claiming those terms for ourselves because they are quite funny, like hell yea I'm a little skittle in the alphabet mafia 😂😂

[@luna-p]

I'm fond of the alphabet mafia. Heck I just love the alphabet, been a lifelong fan!

[@awkwardukulele6077]

My new favorite is “the league of Letters.”

[@nerdyali4154]

The alphabet soup term stems from the burgeoning number of letters rendering it essentially useless in describe anything. People who don't want to be reduced to "what they do with their genitals" seem awfully insistent on being reduced to "gender" labels, many of which are essentially meaningless to everyone else. Why should anyone care if someone thinks of themselves as genderfluid? It really doesn't mean anything except perhaps that someone is a bit confused, self-centred or even narcissistic. I will treat people with the respect due to anyone who isn't standing on my foot and I don't expect them to care about my special emotional needs any more than I care about theirs.

[@asum7213]

​@@nerdyali4154Good for you big boy 👍 I still prefer alphabet mafia over soup, makes it sound dramatic yk?

[@allycinwunderland]

"satans closet" my new favorite analogy hahahaha

[@charliemallonee2792]

Does that mean everybody should immediately come out of the “evil” closet?😂

[@isaacgates5859]

At 14:30 he was attempting to quote a phrase, being "If you're not a Liberal when you're young you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're old, you have no brain." He had a lot of trouble getting it out though, lol.

[@yaelleonawinston9552]

And Georges Clemenceau face-palms from the grave.

[@zodfanza]

They want people to start using their brains? What happened to needing child-like faith and believing in God in order to see miracles? It's always stressed so much how we're supposed to trust God and not doubt. And how the message of the cross is supposed to be "foolishness" to the world. Suddenly they're saying people should rely on their brains? 🙄

[@ziploc2000]

If you're conservative when you're old, you lost your heart.

[@njhoepner]

‘If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.’ Attributed to Churchill, used by Conservatives to pat themselves on the back...it's a fake quote, Churchill never said anything like that (he changed from Conservative to Liberal at age 35).

[@JohnWaaland]

@@zodfanza Hi. Probably because they see the people that believe with that child-like faith nonsense in other religions besides Christianity.

[@codyvanderzwaag8031]

Back when I was a Christian I loved Mark Driscoll, oh how the turntables

[@jakeking3859]

The "people wanna have sex with whoever they want" has to be the most ridiculous 'reason' people leave the church. Especially since they just came off of the question 'why are so many who used to teach our religion now actively spreading ideas against it'. I actually laughed out loud.

[@summeretry251]

Josh Duggar wanted that and didn't leave the church!

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

People leave the church due to its corruption on every level AND they come to the realization that god doesn't exist

[@JohnWaaland]

@Jake King Hi. Yea, I think right after that he made some nonsense comment about people questioning the Bible are trying to destroy Christianity. It's more like we're pushing back against the fanaticism within ANY of the many religions‼️

[@caseylovesthesharks]

I love Drew's remark at 22:46 when he talked about the "narcissism of small differences". Spot on. Unfortunately, I experienced this with my immediate family members....it impacted me, but I'm working through it.

[@--Ezra--]

First of all, i adore the new look, the hair, the makeup and the fiit is perfect on you. About the video, for some reason i have a suspession that the pastor maybe paid Michaela to tweet that, just like so many scammers before her did with the NFTs and other nonsense products.

[@bethanyr6951]

Asking questions to an authoritarian pastor is how I ended up getting abused. He really didn't like that I was thinking critically and physical violence was his way of getting through to me. Also, MD seems to be quite hung up on transgender people. Doth he protest too much?

[@watitduful]

InBev a feeling that he could be on the down low hence why he goes extra with his views of lgtb and all things relating.

[@robertdullnig3625]

I grew up in a pretty fundamentalist church in the 90s and 00s and no one ever talked about transgender issues. The main "closed fist" issues would have been around soteriology, but they absolutely would have looked down on Mark for drinking. These people only cared about transgender after they lost the "culture war" on gay rights.

[@Albinojackrussel]

What's soteriology

[@SartorialDragon]

46:30 it's so weird to me: why the hell would a loving god create a beautiful garden for his beloved creations, and then basically set a death trap into the garden and say “haha now let's see if you'll fall into the trap“. i'm not gonna leave guns lying around to test if my kids shoot themselves...

[@michaelchiaverini4816]

So excited to watch this!

[@epicvirgoeats5378]

I am officially going to start calling myself "One of the alphabet soup people" 😆

[@christophergreen6595]

I wish I'd heard more of this in my twenties. Lifelong atheist, 41. Its been a lonely road. You kids are doing the lord's work 😜

[@pyrosmantia8117]

obsessed with your outfit, you look amazing

[@theantibot]

Thank you!

[@eddieromanov]

Driscoll was a big part of what drove me out of the church.

[@beccascraps8141]

Yep! “Mars hill atheists”

[@lenbones7940]

killin it with the outfit it's awesome seeing you and ur dude doing ur thing... you can really tell yall are speaking from heart.. I think yall are and will do alotta good by making these videos.. it's more or less people are age that are the first in mass to step back and really break down all the hypocrisy that's for so long just head nodded away "the correct view" to have when we all know Hating each other is not the right way to live in any matter of belief..

[@joetilman7227]

First, I love the dialogue of your collaborations. I think it is more interesting than monologues or individual reactions - more dynamic, I guess. My thought: it is the hubris of so many fundamentalists - that the mere fact of their literacy (usually in one language) makes them competent interpreters of scripture. Moreover, that hubris is turned up to 11 in some of them when it is *their* interpretation that is the one and only correct one...no matter that they are reading in the third hand translations. It boggles the mind that he (allegedly) has a master's in exegetical theology. I think his exegetical studies didn't start when he looked up "fornication," but more likely peaked there... 😉🤷🤐

[@MNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMN]

My girlfriend (who's got her cosmetology certification) has a very similar makeup and outfit style, had to show her and basically you're killing it

[@theantibot]

Love that! Thank you!

[@helenr4300]

You are so spot on that churches divide on the issues of the day. I recall trying to get across to a Bible study group how it might feel if brought up white in slavery times where the preacher on Sunday cites Biblical verses that say that slavery is OK, even the natural order of things. A lifetime of this teaching and someone comes and preaches that that is wrong.... How would that feel.? Yet now we would not see anti slavery as radical and a challenge to faith. And hoping to help them face sexuality issues as they had been in the equivalent place of the proslavery indoctrinated congregations. Drink in late 1800s was a huge deal both sides of the Atlantic, and literalism was a reaction to growing Biblical scholarship that dared to question who wrote what. And then Darwin published and they doubled down on inerrancy and literalism. Such that they try to find science sounding ways to defend the story of Noah and the ark (yes Ken Ham looking at you). Meanwhile last days / rapture teaching developed from Darby in mid 1800s UK but spread spectacularly in US. This was alongside Miller predicting the end of the world I. I think 1874, the great disappointment. (Miller linked to seventh day adventists and the Bible Students, most of whom formed into Jehovah's Witnesses) But when you think the end is nigh then why bother to deal with social injustice, you just need to get people to make a personal faith choice. That filters down into a lot of fundementalist and conservative faith. In the 1960s/70s Catholic priests in struggling countries seeking social justice were condemned as communists. They became the liberation theologians I studied at college. 'when I feed the poor I am considered a saint, but when I ask why they are starving I am a communist'. [.forgive misquote as going from memory] Yet the 'social gospel' demonised then and now was behind so many movements. The Salvation Army was born out of concern for the poor and needy. I am UK so my reference point is here - people who developed children's homes (the projects continue today as family support and care) did so as an expression of faith. British Methodism still does not allow alcohol on church premises, not because of some dodgy Biblical claim, Wesley drank, but because they worked with people who had problems and wanted a safe space without temptation. We may support food banks but equally consider ourselves called to lobby politically. Many in the British trade unions had roots Iin churches and as a community wanting to challenge exploitation of child labour, or the poor, and still fight for fair pay etc. A church of 'woke' people, aware of injustice and open to challenge it, is not some new heresy, it has been at the core of the gospel from Jesus onwards.

[@wartgin]

This exactly. I point to the Hull House and the other settlement houses in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. YMCAs and YWCAs were safe community spaces for those unmoored from their rural support networks as they moved to the cities for work. The Catholic Worker movement of solidarity with the poor and marginalized has the same roots. I tell people we need more Dorothy Day and less Opus Dei.

[@wilkimist]

Driscoll was booted from Mars Hills, yet hasn't seemed to learn from that experience. I'm more surprised that people helped him start another church.

[@stephmariem]

Thank you for your videos, they give me hope😂

[@theforrestguy]

love the video! just wanted to point out that the use of "transgenderism" as a term is primarily derogatory and diminutive used by opponents of trans people and their rights as this concept of an external social force as opposed to simply "trans people" or "being trans" depending on usage which are much more neutral and point to being trans as an individual expression within a community rather than some sort of social plague. hope that helps with considering verbiage around these discussions!

[@iriswaters]

The hilarious thing about that "suppressing the truth" bit being used to excuse his not knowing is that that bit in the text is explicitly about how not knowing isn't a good excuse because the holy spirit makes sure everyone already knows. 😂

[@USColdplayFan]

"We in the 'Alphabet Squad'" (Which I am ABSOLUTELY stealing, btw)?! Did Drew just come out as part of the community as well? I'm absolutely already a fan. His voice on YT was one of the first who really made me comfortable with truly identifying as an Agnostic and with my decision to Deconstruct...but that would be EXTRA awesome!

[@hatchet1013]

The rise and fall of mars hill was such a good podcast. Most of the guys at my bible college looooved Mark Driscoll vecause of how he spoke about his wife and sex, which is super gross. I was always put off by the yelling and pastor cadence

[@andrewliamdesigndevelopment]

I love how you two listen to each other.

[@magister343]

The Greek word for "Fornication" is "Porneia," which literally means "prostitution." The root of the word means "price," and originally it could only refer to sex acts where there was an explicit financial quid pro quo. Of course, well before the New Testament was written it had come to be used almost as loosely as the term "woke" to mean anything sexual that the speaker did not personally condone. Some early Christian writers used Porneia only to refer to sex with victims of human trafficking while not condemning the higher class Hetaira ("companions") who were basically the escorts and sugar babies of the ancient world, who might charge for their time or carry on relationships expecting lavish gifts but not have a clear quid pro quo deal where accepting payment obligated them to have sex. Others called it porneia when a husband and wife had sex with each other for any purpose other than reproduction, or if they did it before dinner, or with enough light to ever glipse each other naked.

[@fabes89]

Interpreting the Bible is like a rorschach test - if you hold close-minded views you'll see those in the text. The problem with this is that because the Bible is associated with absolute authority, many believe that their views are absolute. Driscoll sees "anti-wokeness" as Biblical because he is projecting his own views onto the text; Drew mentions Protestant ethics as being compatible with Biblical Christianity, which I agree with, but... I think engaging Evangelicals on the front of "well actually, the Bible is in favor of X,Y,Z" to be an ineffective tactic in changing minds. 1) because I think actually their view needs to change intellectually/emotionally first before they'll recognize the support for that new perspective in the Bible and 2) because it will just move their perspective on that issue and not solve the fundamental problem of attributing their personal views to a divine inspiration, elevating them to be above debate.

[@helenr4300]

I love how because he drinks he sees that as an 'open handed' issue. But anything he disagrees with is a 'closed hand' issue. As for asking questions, Jesus had no problem with that, and often also answered with another question.. When a church or preacher demands that only their interpretation is valid, they create the faith cliff that people fall off when they see the holes in what they are presented. Be that science disproving 6000 yrs creation, or recognising that their gay friends in a commited monogamous relationship is living closer to the ideal they have been presented with than the divorced and remarried leader condemning them.. Whatever the trigger, if faith has been defined so narrowly then questions mean leaving faith. They are the ones making it binary. Whilst across the road, the churches they condemn are embracing the questions, trusting that God is big enough to deal with questions and still have a role in people's lives. That faith is not a set of rules defining who is in and who is out, but an exploration beyond ourselves reaching to God.

[@Saezimmerman]

I feel like we’re playing logical fallacy bingo with this one. Tempting to create myself a bingo card and start the video over. *apologies for the double comments. Maybe one day, I’ll learn to save my thoughts for the end of the video.

[@D_4_N_]

you guys have become some of my favourite channels on youtube. very affirming to see people who share both my experiences and my opinions.

[@kathrynmarquina6040]

Mikhaila talking about not finding a pastor “worth listening to” as why she’s not in church tells me everything I need to know… she basically just admitted to saying she’s looking to join a cult of personality, not a community of faith.

[@puffball4484]

Exactly. She's looking for someone who flatters her ego. Her audience is an offshoot of her fathers audience who are constantly telling her how smart she is, even though she mainly just parrots her father's opinions on things. It's clearly gone to her head.

[@darkstarr984]

I always looked for pastors whose interpretations resembled my own. I still do, I’m just even more extreme in the belief of all people being equal.

[@tgh965]

....another excellent video...individually and together the content is excellent. Thank you.

[@turtleyamazing6091]

I’m relatively new to your channel, but I have been watching a lot of videos from both you and Drew lately and you’ve both talked about how you had no real incentive to deconstruct, and how that puts a hole in the accusation that people deconstruct just because they want to sin. Do you have any advice for someone who was already out as bi before they started deconstructing? Because even to myself, it does feel like there’s extra motivation there. It’s not the primary reason I started deconstructing, that was just because I started asking questions and probing arguments that no longer made sense as I grew up. But…idk, there is some part of me that is like yeah I would love to just be bi and not feel guilt for it. I’d like to have sex and not worry about marriage. I don’t think it makes my reasons for beginning deconstruction any less valid but it makes things complicated.

[@charliemallonee2792]

Yeah, it sucks. As complicated as your motivations may be, it will inevitably be construed down to just “you wanted to sin”. I’m not bi, but I see absolutely no reason to think it’s wrong. What you and whatever partner consensually do is up to you. I’d try to break down to whoever says that by asking why exactly is it sinful? Most reasonable people should take pause. Those who spout off about “God said so”? I got nothing.

[@slowlylosingit1967]

it’s not your sole reason tho. wanting to be comfortable and safe in your sexuality is not a bad reason. but the idea that I think the men in the video were trying to convey is that wanting to have sex before marriage or have non-heterosexual sex is the only reason why people even start to question Christianity. and therefore people who deconstruct shouldn’t be taken seriously because they’re basing their actions on a desire for sex. i think the things that these men said can cause their viewers to develop a bias against deconstructioners and not ask genuine questions and be curious about why someone deconstructed. bc maybe if their viewers actually had honest conversations with deconstructioners, then they would see that there are many valid reasons for not believing Christianity. it’s just a way for judgmental people to belittle and discredit those who look at religion critically and to keep Christians from associating with skeptics. plus there’s nothing wrong with wanting sex, you’re a human being.

[@herpderp66]

It is scary knowing this pastor's base is in Scotsdale AZ. That is one of the richest areas in the country.

[@caseylovesthesharks]

This is helping to heal my religious trauma. Thank you Taylor and Drew.

[@ayybeealternative1999]

Aint No Hate Like Christian Love.

[@StormyWitchnado]

Truth!

[@elosoguapo8137]

I’m wondering what Peterson senior thinks about Driscoll…but that would take him like two weeks to answer

[@OceanusHelios]

It depends on what you mean by D or ris or what you mean by co or what you mean by l or by l. In the conflabutory world of things there is a masucline sense and a psychological epitome of dark encumberance burdening the hypoallergenic postmodernist rectitude of rectocranial infarction where I, as DOCTOR Jordan Nazi Peterson do so embody. You are only picking on me because of dichotomy glorified ethical mastuabatory Walmart. And furhtermore...red pillism imrightyourwrongism yourpickingonmeism during the Jewish question... Yeah, that sums it up. There I saved you from the video.

[@luna-p]

You could get the same answer faster with a scrabble bag and a book of madlibs

[@SecularFelinist]

Giving away the game: "They don't tithe, they don't give"

[@tompatterson1548]

Seriously, why the whole alcohol thing? There's a whole story where Jesus furnishes a wedding with more wine when they run out.

[@skyinou]

You are writing this as if the bible doesn't have a reputation of contradicting itself. 😄

[@Mattdewit]

I love how he says 'don't separate jesus from his words' while thats his whole thing.

[@merarifreethought]

I just want to thank you for making this 🎉

[@RosieGamgee]

this feels like i'm sitting next to my new atheist friends at church. :) that's how much these two men sound like my old preacher; it's uncanny.

[@solis087]

Drew’s reaction at 38:22 is one of the reason I appreciate your videos. 😂😂

[@ethicent4888]

I’m post deconstruction from Christianity and the conservative purity culture cult. I do miss thinking that I knew everything and that there was a simple solution to all problems ever.

[@OceanusHelios]

Yeah ignorance is indeed bliss. Getting back to doing homework and tackling the tough problems can be a massive headache indeed, and it isn't exactly comforting. Here is a suggestion for you though...in today's world we have a very much Roman/Stoic kind of utilitarian way at looking at everything. The Greeks culture that the Romans adopted and loved and appropriated really made up for their preatorian and militaristic and stoic kind of aesthetic. Greek philosophy might trigger your thoughts into looking at things all kinds of ways and lighten the load some. Creative and imaginative and artistic tasks and appreciation that was taboo before might be just the ticket. Non Christian themed art for instance, or perhaps a bit of dabbling into the origins of mythology or studying of the Bronze age might help too. So much to see and explore now that those "dangerous and pesky" ideas that don't fit the narrative are suddenly open to you. Western Civilization, after all, started with the Greeks.

[@tylerloomis5915]

This is totally unrelated to the actual content, but i wanted to tell you that I just recently discovered Drew’s channel and i saw another video with both of you, and i was kind of thinking in the back of my mind “these two have such great chemistry” and then in this video when you mentioned you’re actually married i thought “awesome i ship it” 😂 You are a lovely couple! Thank you so much for videos like this, i was also raised Christian and left the church and your content is extremely valuable to people like me, as well as many others

[@kingashant6323]

You're looking really cool lately. Like a real badass

[@ppe9388]

I love love love your new look!!!

[@ol48spring]

So stylin 🖤 great content!

[@jessicasparkman1832]

Your makeup is on point! I love the videos of you 2 together.

[@WarriorDan]

6:30 I'm not sure if "It's about Jesus, not justice" is a Freudian slip on Mark's part, but it definitely describes the state of modern US theocratic republicanism.

[@wartgin]

Didn't the prophets frequently call for justice for the marginalized and ignored? I seem to recall that Amos had quite a rant along those lines.

[@notlurking2128]

A bit off topic, but the latest season of Good Omens really goes in on this idea that it is moral to never ask any questions ever. I can't stop thinking about the scene Before the Beginning- "Its not just there to twinkle!"

[@InfinitePisces]

It's a red flag for me when someone is willing to fire or reject anyone who doesn't agree with their agenda.

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

You are growing and evolving so quickly. You look amazing, inside and outside. Of course I really don't know you but i thought I would let you know 😊

[@theantibot]

Thank you!

[@thisurldoesnotexist]

A good thing to watch before I'm forced to participate in Bible study because I'm an adult who lives at home and so I have no time freedom 🙄

[@philzeo]

Couldn't you just say no? Or is it like a JW situation

[@watitduful]

All due respect but that’s bs and won’t let you get away with that. You as a grown adult have a right and the ability to say no and keep it moving. Exercise your autonomy and stop being a codependent.

[@greenisnice333]

This reminds me of a guy, Rudy Francisco. He writes poetry and performs it and one of his poems, one of my favorites, is called “Your God”. One of the lines in it is “You know it’s funny, how we can think we are created in God’s image, and then recreate God in ours”

[@stealthcactus]

“Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.” -Mark Driscoll or 40K?

[@charliemallonee2792]

Definitely 40K. It takes a real writer to use that advanced a grammar structure.