Australia's most capable electric vehicle. F-150 Lightning tow test and more.

[@L2SFBC]

Clarifications and answers to common themes in the comments l2sfbc.com/f150ev/

[@nosbigr7645]

This might be the future, but it is not here yet in reality. I have both an MG HS PHEV and Touareg V8 tdi diesel car. We live in the country with our nearest shopping supplies 15kms from home. So we use the PHEV locally on electric and charge overnight. It is a 16.6kw battery. Takes around 7 hours from a 10amp plug in the garage. I pay $0.32/kw. So the electric capability is excellent for our local use. I occasionally tow a heavy 400 kilo trailer for materials, but do this as a combined petrol/electric vehicle as it just doesn't have any useable range on electric alone. When we go into Sydney, the round trip on average is 150kms and this is not achievable on pure electric. Fuel consumption average is 6.1 litres/100km of petrol. I feel that for Australia, plug-in hybrids are a sensible choice for both city and rural dwellers. But as a heavy tow vehicle, until battery technology is dramatically improved, electric vehicles can't cut it in reality. But they do make you feel good and the technology is fun to play with. Now I mentioned my second car being a Touareg V8 tdi from 2017. This is our tow vehicle. We have a single axel maximum weight 2800kg off road caravan. The Touareg is approved to tow upto 3500kg, but that is stupid. Loaded up the car is a similar weight to our van and maximum towball weight is 280kg. When travelling our van weighs in at 2670kg. I run a ball weight around 250kg and everything works beautifully. The touareg is equipped with air suspension and automatically adjusts levels, stability controls etc when the caravan is plugged into the car. All very simple. Now the reality of this vehicle and why I love it, and think it is one of the best underrated tow vehicles in Australia. It has a 4.1 litre V8 producing 250kw and 800nm of torque, an 8 speed super smooth gearbox, AWD and a central diff lock. (I wish it had a rear diff lock as well). Fuel consumption real world figures. Driving in city traffic it gets around 12litres/100km. Highway driving at 110kph with the rev counter showing 1500rpm, fuel drops to average of 6.9litres/100km and a range around 1000+kms per fill. But the real story is in towing. Cruising in the country with cruise control set 100kph and the caravan connected, the average is 14.7litres/100kms. If I set the cruise control to 92kph, I have seen averages as low as 12.8 litres/100kms out west and around 13.7litres/100km driving through the great dividing range. Not as cheap as electric. But tows just as well. Unlike dual cab utes, overtaking, climbing hills etc is just not an issue. And the air suspension and its adaptability is extraordinary. The price of a new V8tdi is $140,000. A lot of money by any ones standards but a hell of a lot cheaper that the F150 Lightning and no range anxiety. I actually bought my 2017 Touareg for $50k and other than changing the rims from 21 inch to 19 inch and fitting AT tyres, it has been a flawless vehicle. It is not our day to day runabout, but our 2nd vehicle and holiday/tow vehicle. The tech head in me says I would love to have the Lightening, but the common sense part of my brain says I would be nuts and what a waste of hard earned money. There are a number of practical alternatives besides the big 4WDs, dual cab utes and the Electric Vehicles for towing. I have also been considering the Ivec Daily 4x4, Isuzu 4x4s and mabey the new Ineos Grenadier. Very interesting assessment of the Lightning and thank you for your efforts in bringing this information to us. Brilliant. Cheers.

[@L2SFBC]

Brilliant, thank you. Perfectly illustrates a very common car combination of 4x4 and EV. I do think you could replace your PHEV with an EV right now, but recognise if there is no need, there is no need...consider that if the PHEV gets written off or something. I actually tested the Treg years ago and found it to be a competent offroader, the one I tested had low range not sure if that was the '17 model or not, I know they dropped it later. And yes air suspension is fantastic! You might want to consider a 6x6 conversion too? I have a lot of Grenadier content on this channel as well. Fantastic post.

[@peterj5751]

And although way off topic, how many kms has the Touareg done and how has it been reliability wise. I love these but worry about repairs.

[@johnemerson5383]

You should look at getting solar or at least charging the PHEV off peak so you won't pay anywhere near 32c per kw/h. My next vehicle will be a PHEV. Hopefully the BYD Leopard 5 if they import it to Australia. It's got a 30kw/h battery and a real range of around 100km's on electric. I'm currently running 13kw's of solar panels on my roof so I should be able to charge it easily off them but for the times when the sun doesn't shine I'll charge it off peak which is 8c per kw/h from memory. The BYD also has V2L so I'll be able to run the house off it during power cuts.

[@dinosshed]

The ineos drives worse than an old tractor, you'd hate it compared to the rag. The iveco definitely has advantages in safe towing capacity, but again, it is not the most comfortable.

[@nosbigr7645]

@@peterj5751 Hi, I bought the Touareg with 110,000kms on it in early 2021. Now has 162,000+kms on it. Reliability has been perfect. Even still has the original battery much to my surprise. I did update the rims and tyres as mentioned, and also fitted new brake discs and pads round the same time. The only other fault was a wheel sensor failing on the left hand front wheel. Dash lit up like a Xmas tree, but drove perfectly. Replacement cost $390 with $110 for the sensor, labour for replacement and tyre rotation and balance. I didn't think that was to bad. That is it. As an aside, my previous tow vehicle was 2010 Touareg R-Line V10tdi. So you could say I am a glutton for punishment.

[@user-pp6kw6yl6z]

You popping out from under the bonnet is solid gold 😂

[@L2SFBC]

Frunk!

[@jerrymyahzcat]

@@L2SFBC*Froot

[@joezephyr]

TFL had one and their videos are worth watching.

[@ErnosMowJo]

For that price i can run enough petrol for 2 lifetimes

[@FutureSystem738]

My son tows his 1.5t boat with his RWD Tesla model Y, (1.6t tow rating) and he says it’s absolutely effortless, a dream compared to his 4.2 litre turbo diesel Patrol. He never tows far enough for range to be a problem, and that is key. EVs have absolutely huge advantages for short range towing, but still have a long way to go for long range, not helped by a massive lack of drive through chargers. (At most chargers you’ll have to disconnect which is a real pain.)

[@L2SFBC]

Absolutely agree!

[@bushmagpie3312]

Can you get 400km in 5hrs with 3ton? My Colorado can on a standard tank.

[@bushmagpie3312]

These are primarily made for tradie in town, work during day, charge at night. If your on holiday it’s time you notice, you don’t want to delay getting there, no waiting at stop. Taking 2 days to get to a 600km destination isn’t worth it when you can drive it easy with ICE vehicle in day.

[@AquaMarine1000]

I see these guys are knocking out quite a few of these conversions. The question arises: Who is buying these vehicles here in Australia? This would be a good follow-up video. Thanks, Robert, for your efforts to present this information. Cheers

[@L2SFBC]

Fleets and mining is the answer. I cannot see the ROI working out for AusEV based on recreational sales.

[@franciscoshi1968]

On the subject of effeciency, combustion engines and automatic transmissions have a lot of losses that do not vary with load. The amount of fuel needed 5o cover those losses remains the same when going faster or when towing. Interestingly enough, some of the modern most fuel effecient ICE cars do consume more fuel at highway speeds than at lower speeds.

[@jerrymyahzcat]

Virtually all ICE vehicles consume more fuel at highway speeds than city speeds. It’s called aerodynamics. Around 50-60km/h is generally best efficiency, up to 70km/h. Once you start exceeding that it’s gets worse very quickly. You notice it greatly driving a highway on a space saver tyre at 80km/h vs 100km/h with your normal tyres. You save heaps on fuel.

[@franciscoshi1968]

@jerrymyahzcat my last petrol car (manual) would use just under 12lt/100km I the city 39kph average speed and would consume just above 6lt/100km. One day I tried to turn the engine off any time the engine was not pushing the car and coast to a stop in a city drive and it went down to just under 6lt/100km.

[@COMBOSonPATROL]

Great episode, would like to see the comparison between the electric and petrol F150.🙂

[@L2SFBC]

That would be a great test but I'd need an F150 petrol to do the test!

[@MiniLuv-1984]

It shows that electric utes have a long way to go. I was considering the shark 6, but the fuel use is ludicrously high when in petrol mode and that's not towing yet. Now this F150 asking $180k+ is fantasy land material.

[@L2SFBC]

I have a Shark series here including cost analysis of a PHEV ute in which I concluded PHEV only makes economic sense if you do numerous trips under 80km that you can run on low-cost electricity. PHEV doesn't help when touring. l2sfbc.com/bydshark/

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

I hope you didn't make the judgement of the Shark 6 fuel consumption on the CarSales video. Has anyone done a sensible consumption test of it yet?

[@johnemerson5383]

@@L2SFBC I'm not sure that's completely accurate. If you do a round trip of 140 km's a day then the first 88 km's of that can be electric only with the last 52km's being hybrid. Assuming a fuel consumption of 10l / 100km's in hybrid mode then you use 5l @ $2 per litre or $10. By my reckoning that's the equivalent of 3.6l 100km's. As long as you remember to plug it in then the first 88 km's is going to be cheap. There is a small cost of electricity to account for but if the have solar panels or a good off peak rate this is minimal. If you do 200km's a day then it costs $20.20 which is equivalent to 5l / 100km's. Yes, if you're doing hundreds of km's a day touring then the benefit is minimised but still there.

[@FutureSystem738]

What RELIABLE evidence do you have about the Shark’s fuel consumption? I’ve seen just about every video out there, and have not found ANYTHING that reliably covers fuel consumption.

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

@@L2SFBC It does seem that BYD have not thought through the use cases for this vehicle. Able to put the vehicle into a mode where it can be locked overnight and intermittently run the engine if required to keep the V2L working makes a lot of sense to me, but unfortunately not supported. There could be an argument about owners leaving it on in a non-ventilated location, but worth trying to find a solution for this. Perhaps a sensor in the tub (and manual switch) to shut off the V2L. Also, how about a real test of a full weeks commute in the city, some shopping, drop off the kids at swimming lessons etc. This means possibly more than one use per day to see how the running costs compare to a diesel. Assume no solar because solar doesn't charge overnight. [Edit], Apologies Robert, it seems you did exactly that kind of analysis in your Part 1 video. I am not sure that working families can do 9 long trips a year, and likely to do more commuting, but your video proves the point that a PHEV can save a lot of money overall.

[@200mphgt40]

Petrol cars also become more efficient when loaded up with higher throttle openings, such as when towing. So this is to their benefit when towing. Whereas EV's are quite similar efficiency across a far broader range of loads, so they get affected more when towing. Diesels are closer to EV's than petrol in this regard as they are quite efficient at light load (no throttle) and don't get much more efficient under towing loads. Which is why you'll see comparison tow tests where the diesel and petrol equivalents (think 200 series vs Y62 Patrol) when towing a big van have very similar fuel consumptions. The above effects are in addition to your noted aero drag percentage increases comparing ICE vs EV (assuming the EV was notable more aero efficient than the ICE equivalent).

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, agreed thank you, added a note in the video to that effect after the aero explanation. They are also able to run with the torque convertor locked up whereas not so much in the 'burbs, and often manufacturers will at least partially optimise efficiency for freeway rev ranges. And then there is regen. However I focused on aero as that is what I believe based on my own tests and that of others to be the biggest difference between EV and ICE. In another video I go into the differences between ICE and EV F-150 including drag coefficients. The EV is better, and of course, I've made my Ranger worse than stock. That is why I polled other owners of my caravan to check my % increase wasn't off the mark.

[@mitchell5064]

diesels are alot more efficient when towing. 200 series just has a outdated turd powering it

[@L2SFBC]

BUT V8!!!! well, try two electric motors...

[@200mphgt40]

@@L2SFBC Aero is the killer when towing at highway speeds for sure! Regarding regen with EV's, well it's not that simple. With an unbraked (750 kg max) trailer, then yes, you get the full regen benefit (assuming the tow can can use all the regen before going for the friction brakes). I've done testing with our Outlander PHEV up and down long constant hills to measure this. But with a braked trailer situation, then you should put safety first and set the trailer brakes up as you ordinarily would, which means not getting the full regen benefit from the trailer weight that you perhaps just accelerated up to speed at the previous set of traffic lights. Something for you to consider testing in the future perhaps? This of course is only of consideration in traffic or in very hilly terrain. On a flat open hwy, regen and extra weight don't count for much and we're back to aero again.

[@TheMadMagician87]

Is that statement about Petrol engines becoming more efficient actually true with most modern (by which I mean direct injected) petrol engines? It was true at one stage where you had throttle butterflies on the air intake, so higher throttle openings would translate to reduced pumping loses as the butterfly wasn't restricting airflow into the inlet as much. With modern DI engines, I don't really know why it would be more efficient (specifically the engine, the whole system with torque converter lockup in the driveline being a different question) since they don't restrict inlet air flow? I know all engines have a range of values for their BSHP (Brake Specific HP) and I guess the manufacturers try to target the RPM vs Throttle Opening (power demand) to match freeway conditions in their engine designs.....but still, I don't think it's as big of a gap as it used to be in terms of relative efficiency (obviously not absolute fuel consumption) between not towing and towing.

[@michaelfink64]

Didn't realise the Lightning was available in Australia. Just checked the US price which is AUD105 k, so AUD184k is quite the mark up. Pity.

[@L2SFBC]

To be fair, it also includes importing, a very good RHD factory-level conversion, warranty, and taxes. It is not profiteering by AusEV. But yes the end result is a high price, sadly.

[@peterj5751]

Plus our prices include taxes whereas in the US the price is quoted before taxes.

[@351tgv]

The other issue is that no Ford Australia backed dealership will touch it for service or provide parts for it. That limits options to the buyers to basically the sellers approved service reps. You might as well buy the factory approved petrol F-150 or wait for Ford Australia to do an official F-150 Lightning (which might happen).

[@L2SFBC]

I doubt Ford Australia will do it. Can't see the sales happening to make it viable.

[@351tgv]

@@L2SFBC Ford Motor Company have serious issues trying to move MY23 stock let alone MY24 stock of the Lightning, so I guess it could be possible for Ford Australia to lets say take 1,000 of the USA/Canada models, give them to the converter (I would think that would be RMA) and start the compliance work, then again throw hands u in the air and say nope to hard.

[@Talasas]

Why does no one make a diesel electric PHEV? Seems like an opportunity to take advantage of the benefits of both. Is there something that doesn't incentivise manufacturers?

[@L2SFBC]

There are diesel PHEVs just quite rare. Petrol is usually favoured as petrol engines are cheaper, lighter and simpler, and diesels already have good economy.

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

20:57 The combustion F-150s also don't have a transmission tunnel.

[@L2SFBC]

True, many diesels do though

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

@@L2SFBC all of them I believe, except the diesel F-150 and RAM 1500 which are no longer made

[@peterj5751]

And just imagine if you score a strong headwind towing a full height van. That will significant impact on a diesel vehicle range and I’d expect the same exaggerated impact would happen with the Lightening.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes it would

[@davidholmes3323]

Why can't Ford Aus put a step in the tail Gate of the Ranger? A great idea.

[@L2SFBC]

Have to have their differentiators...

[@dalemcmartin9201]

Hi Robert, quite an informative video. My problem with the conversion process of these vehicles, both the internal combustion engine version sold by Ford dealerships in Australia, as well as the electric version converted and sold by AUSEV is that they fail to re-tilt the infotainment screen towards the driver on the right hand side of the vehicle. In other words it’s tilted towards the passenger in Australia. In my opinion this is very poor attention to detail. In addition, I don’t think the cross shaft conversion process is very sophisticated. There are other low volume converters and importers that go to the trouble of fully remanufacturing the vehicle during the conversion process, which to me seems like a much more sophisticated conversion. The interesting thing with using a F150 Lightening as a tow vehicle is that in a lot of places such as caravan parks, you could charge for free should you pay for a powered sight. Admittedly, the range is significantly reduced when towing a caravan with an F150 Lightening. It would be interesting to see someone attempt a lap with an electric F150. Thanks again for the informative video.

[@jerrymyahzcat]

And the trailer setup screen said Miles not Km. Poor attention.

[@dalemcmartin9201]

@ yes, I saw that as well. Pretty poor.

[@timmo42]

That underbelly could do with some refinement. Aero is the main determinant for energy efficiency.

[@L2SFBC]

A diffuser you think?

[@timmo42]

Contrasting the difference between this and the Mach E, it should have a flat/Flush undercarriage. Diffusers could direct air past suspension, but it’s clear Ford priorities were more on buyers perspective on aesthetics than functionality.

[@L2SFBC]

Ford kept the Lightning's styling very close to the ICE version so as not to spook buyers.

[@docbob3030]

A diesel M5 BMW has better aero than most EV's 😂

[@paulvictor9368]

If you tow with an electric vehicle, especially touring, you have no access to cheap electricity. With the range and towing a 3.5T caravan, you will not get anywhere in the outback and areas where people usually tow. You will get to know every single fuel station really well and make for slow, slow touring. I still think a hybrid for towing would be perfect, if only manufacturers keep the engine size the same. The electric motor can assist uphill and charge downhill instead of wasting energy by braking. The engine does a more consistent work that will improve fuel usage dramatically. Why is no one doing this obvious hole in the market yet?

[@L2SFBC]

The Tundra is a hybrid...see my BYD Shark series. A PHEV is no good for touring though.

[@douglasmedia]

One of my jobs is a Fire Fighter in Aust. Just done a course for crash rescue and I will never buy any electric vehicle. There is more chance of not surviving a crash because if the massive complexity they pose for rescue crew. The total random nature of them catching fire from minor or serious damage. The off gassing that may occur are real issues. These may become more numbered as the batteries age and become less stable. Then there is the complexity around cutting people out. Because of the extra weigh of these cars they and companies needing to protect the batteries they are built of material that contain new tech like Boron. This is super hard to cut slowing down the rescue. Crews may even need to wear breathing apparatus while working on the cars slowing the process down further. Time will tell but they have more risks than the average combustion car. Not to mention the massive pollution and danger to rescue crew from super poisonous gases and smoke. It’s a little scary we could loose a lot of lives if not careful.

[@macaccess1884]

Robert, thanks for the interesting video. You go to length to show that Evs are affected more by towing and the results show that. However I assume having a lower drag unit value for the EV/van combination than the diesel setup, that towing with an EV is more energy efficient overall and that is pro for towing with EVs. Obviously the conversion cost and small towing range is going to be the two major cons which means 99% of Australians won't be buying these for towing.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, an EV towing will use less energy than a diesel towing, especially as an EV is around 90% efficient and ICE 25% or so, but I feel that's a moot point. What matters is range and recharge.

[@bonkers5011]

Current list price for standard range is $196000 AU. What does it cost to license and insure? Electric vehicles attract a premium for both. What is the depreciation rate. Fast charging rates are exorbitant and getting worse. The common user has no chance.

[@geoffmathers3902]

Another advantage of EV's towing a caravan is your caravan can run its electrics off the EV. Air conditioning, off grid.

[@einfelder8262]

For 5 minutes, then you have to fire up your petrol generator to try and get to a charger.

[@geoffmathers3902]

@einfelder8262 100kwh battery would keep a caravan going for 2+ weeks

[@L2SFBC]

More like 15 days....can do a house for 5 days!

[@L2SFBC]

yes, absolutely!

[@351tgv]

Great work again Robert however one thing, you have put the F-150 Lightning against turbo diesel Ranger whereas Ford Australia actually offer the petrol F-150 here as a factory vehicle which is what you should be comparing this non RHD factory vehicle to. Also your old Ranger while highly capable does not offer anywhere near the current generation level of technology that current generation Ranger has.

[@L2SFBC]

The diesel Ranger is kind of the default choice for people, hence the comparison. I had to use my own car as that is what I had to hand.

[@351tgv]

@@L2SFBC Ford Australia should let you do extensive testing of the F-150, its a travesty they wont provide you with one.

[@einfelder8262]

I recommend people to watch the Fast Lane Truck video on the towing capability of this POS. There's a reason Ford lost Billions on their EV programs, and the F150 Lightning is a key contributor.

[@joelmarold]

I think the lightening was a token effort to catch up .. many better options around .. gm Silverado ..with a 220kwh pack etc

[@springweng]

there is no problem for towing power from any ev 4wd, but the battery will run out much faster. the tow mainly impact the range. Also, this tow exercise does not show much of the f150 lighting towing ability, since the caravan is way too small for such tow test.

[@L2SFBC]

The effect was clear even with a "small" trailer, so still of value even if not the full 4500kg.

[@Snowy-r6r]

At that price you'd want to be towing ALL the time, and requiring the seating etc. Otherwise there has to be a myriad of better options...need a truck...buy a proper truck. Use it for truck stuff. I mean...I have a ute. It gets used to tow and do ute stuff. That's all it does. I don't commute with it, I don't drive it for fun on weekends. I do tradie ute stuff in it when I have no other alternative. Consequently, it ticks all the requisite boxes, and it's fuel consumption isn't really an issue because I don't use it enough for it to become an issue...in fact I just worked out that the F150 purchase price would feed my V6 petrol ute with fuel at the highest prices we've ever recorded for 275 years at the rate I put miles on it. If I put that much money in the right investment fund and used the interest to run the ute it'd go forever....there's a thought.

[@L2SFBC]

Fair point!

[@bushmagpie3312]

Great calculations, factor in the in time with both on journey with average for 600km trip? 2 stops for the EV, the ICE is on 1 stop, so 2 days to get to destination for EV. The energy density of diesel to petrol and efficiency soon proves EV battery needs more work. The ICE vehicle uses 10% fuel at idle no load, EV no fuel, then EV is full torque (high current) which drains batter. Diesel is engineered for torque. Once they get the battery density to 10x now it will be near the diesel but the charge time/wait is killer, hence why Hybrid is way in Australia.

[@70chevs]

As soon as you carry a load or tow something your range will drop dramatically. This has been proven by testing in the US.

[@L2SFBC]

It's more tow. Load carrying doesn't affect range as much provided there is no aero penalty. EVs handle weight very well.

[@351tgv]

Pretty much correct, the Canadian reviewer "Truck King" did a payload test of F-150 Lighting and range was not significant affected by going to actually over the recommended payload limit. The issue has always been Areo drag.

[@reubs91]

I don’t understand the fuel figures. If the ranger used 16l/100ks that’s 160l per 1000ks, and 480litres per 3000ks. So how did he end up with energy costs of $1764?? What am I missing here? Over 100,000ks that would be 16,000l of fuel or $32,000. Where did the $59000 come from?

[@rodtaylor2280]

You didn't mention the weight of the vehicle ,life expectancy of batteries,cost of replacement and what is THE COST to generate electricity and up grade power supplies

[@L2SFBC]

See pinned most. Don't worry about the battery.

[@JacksonBiggles]

What a perfect outback tourer except for the infostructure and time spent standing around waiting for charging !

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, need more infrastructure and a step-change in battery tech!

[@JacksonBiggles]

@@L2SFBC Sorry a cheeky comment, your a much smarter guy than I. The new Shark ute system I think is the way to go with the petrol engine driving a generator which is much less complicated than current hybrid system?

[@L2SFBC]

Covered in depth l2sfbc.com/bydshark/

[@docbob3030]

Good video, but lacking in a couple of areas where not showing the actual "extra 40%" loss of range when towing a full ton under its rated tow capacity, which should be included in the results. Aero is another thing that I don't believe has any influence between the EV and the ICE versions. They are 99.9% EXACTLY the same size Trucks, that displace the same amount of air, and there's no massive redesign of the bodywork between the two versions. They are both the same looking "block of flats", not like the EV has a streamlined TESLA looking body mounted onto the chassis in comparison to the ICE design! Simple physics can't be ignored, the aero of both vehicles would be exactly the same, and because of their physical size, much worse than compared with the aero of something like the Ranger or Hilux.

[@L2SFBC]

It's not 99% the same. See pinned post for a link to the actual differences in drag. Frontal area is just one part of drag.

[@jackdawg4579]

You went past my place 4 times and didn't drop in for a cuppa? 😁

[@L2SFBC]

You did not hang a sign out the window :-)

[@jackdawg4579]

@@L2SFBC next time !

[@jerrymyahzcat]

You said you can’t add a long range battery pack to the F-150 Lightning well no, but you can buy the extended range version (130kWh) rather than the standard range(98kWh). That’s the equivalent of adding a long range diesel tank to a Ranger lol

[@L2SFBC]

The model sold is the ER already. And my LR tank goes from 80 to 140L, a greater % increase than 98 to 130. The weight penalty is also greater for batteries, approx 5.5kg per kWh.

[@natebetcha8059]

Pretty poor range really,that was only towing 2300kg...F150 may struggle to get out of charging station with a 4 tonne load...its simply not practical on Australian rds...yet!

[@dirtmcgirt168]

Realistically this would suit many owners still if they have the money. 4 tonne loads are actually quite rare and clearly not the target market for this vehicle. It’s like saying it would be no good in an underground inner city car park.

[@seedias5961]

I might have missed it - but no point doing a “tow” test without max payload in the vehicles. Is this not more realistic in the real world?

[@L2SFBC]

Not necessarily. Some owners tow with little load. Anyway, I did not have the time or facility to load the vehicle to the max.

[@seedias5961]

@ My anecdotal evidence on the roads - I see more cars / vans fully loaded and more than likely over payload given the “droopy” rear ends. Interesting to see if it impacted the results? In your 4wd comparison/test ( Defender, patrol, LC300 & Grenadier) there were 4 tyres in each of the cars which I thought was excellent and realistic. However note your point that about time/facility to load up the vehicles.

[@timmo42]

Driving an EV demands a shift in mindset, and that’s precisely where the beauty lies. Attempting to use an EV as if it were an ICE vehicle not only undermines the experience but also misses the point entirely. EVs represent a transformative leap in transportation-offering efficiency, sustainability, and performance that ICE vehicles simply cannot match. But to unlock their full potential, we must adapt, rethink, and embrace a new way of driving. Holding onto outdated habits only limits what this revolutionary technology can offer. The world is moving forward-why cling to the past?

[@L2SFBC]

Sounds great. Now how does that work in practice, with examples?

[@franciscoshi1968]

Trying to use an ICE as an EV is even worse. I am used to never consider stopping to add fuel. I get a full car every morning. I have an ICE car that I hardly ever use and the biggest issue is every time I get in it I have to add fuel. We got so used to charging the EV at home that once we had not much fuel left and thought that is ok. We should make it back home only to realise we couldn't fill up at home.

[@timmo42]

@@L2SFBC That’s what I’m hoping your channel will articulate. Your fact based analysis is likely to show people how a change in mindset from dangerous cannonball runs to measured and relaxed journeys could be beneficial to all road users not just those thinking of towing a caravan 1000km in a single day.

[@L2SFBC]

Well, what if you need to get from A to B quickly? I guess if you're retired grey nomads only doing 300km every other day and no reason to be anywhere at any particular time, then an EV can work out, but for those of us who have people to see and places to be then right now they are not the answer for touring or towing 4x4s. It is more relaxed to cruise hour after hour from servo to servo than to be constantly using a variety of apps to figure out range and hope chargers are both functional and available when you arrive.

[@timmo42]

Rob, I appreciate your perspective, especially given how integral touring and towing are to your channel’s focus. You’re right-EVs require a shift in planning, but the idea that they’re unsuitable for 4WD and caravan touring doesn’t fully hold up for most real-world scenarios. Take an 800km trip, for example. Most people naturally stop every couple of hours for a break, a meal, or to stretch their legs. With current EV technology, a 15-20 minute charging stop aligns perfectly with those breaks, making the experience far less of an imposition than it’s often portrayed to be. For towing and 4WD adventures, EVs are already proving their capability, with unmatched torque and growing charging infrastructure, even in regional areas. While it’s true that certain remote, edge-case scenarios might still favor ICE vehicles for now, the vast majority of touring and towing trips are well within reach of EVs today-and only becoming more so as technology and infrastructure continue to evolve. At the heart of it, this is about a shift in mindset. Much of the resistance to EVs stems from deeply ingrained habits and biases, many of which have been perpetuated by ICE manufacturers and other vested interests. EVs challenge the status quo, but they also offer undeniable advantages for those willing to adapt and see the possibilities. Your thoughtful content has the power to help people navigate this transition, and I look forward to seeing how your perspective changes as new information comes to light and people actually start adventuring in EVs.

[@darrylweidenhofer]

No, Aussie will want that. Unless it does 880km on a tank forget it.

[@L2SFBC]

I believe there are many who don't need 880km on a tank, a minority, but they do exist.

[@timmo42]

Yeah, clearly no one buys Ford Rangers because they only get 680km of range.

[@L2SFBC]

And the Jimny?

[@darrylweidenhofer]

@L2SFBC That's not a real off roader. The roads out here will break that.

[@towe001]

What, while towing the van? And let me guess that van will have to be around the 3-3.5T mark, since "we" all need that 3.5T tow rating. I doubt there's any vehicle on the market, apart from a tanker, that'll be able to cover that range while towing a van. As a rough guess with, say, the Y62 with its 18lt/100km you'll be looking at well over a 1000lt of fuel. And not everybody travels that road you do. So maybe pull your head out of the clouds and get back to real life or get a real life hobby so that you can get off the internet for a while.

[@Βόρειο_Σέλας]

Battery technology is still way off.

[@jackbarnes6929]

The lightening isn’t selling well and it will be a flop here in Australia. Replenish the EV, uncouple the caravan in some nearby parking area 😂. IMO, this thing is a problem looking for a solution, and the risk of irrelevance and lack of adoption is very real. I also question your claims about low run costs as you didn’t factor in the EV’s depreciation which would be enough for anyone with half a brain to never buy it. Then there is the costs associated with battery degradation and replacement.

[@L2SFBC]

See the pinned post re battery. Not a problem. Depreciation...yes, I agree there but I have insuffcient data to go on so just did the energy use.

[@EddieKocwa]

You really should follow the ausev socials to see all the customers taking delivery. As for depreciation, it may be true the that passenger EV market is volatile, however the F-150 Lightning has no competition and companies that need to comply to the safe guard mechanism have limited options. These vehicles will be hot property in 4 years. Lastly there is already a secondary market in the pacific where these are been used as mobile power plants.

[@jackbarnes6929]

@@EddieKocwa Wow, what a brilliant strategy, follow a herd of EV fanatics for an 'unbiased' opinion. And then you propose using a $200K vehicle as a glorified household battery backup? Genius! When for peanuts, you could slap a proper solar setup in your backyard. Seriously, are you just pretending to be Chris Bowen or are you actually him? Because your ideas are just as brainless.

[@jackbarnes6929]

@@L2SFBC Your blog post dismissively frames the concern over battery replacement costs as a "scare story" peddled by the "anti-EV crowd." However, the financial implications of battery replacement are far from mythical; they're a legitimate concern for consumers considering the significant investment in a $200K electric vehicle. Battery Longevity Can Vary: While it's true that modern EVs have advanced battery management systems, the actual lifespan of batteries can vary widely based on usage, climate, and other factors. The claim that you're "very unlikely" to need a replacement ignores the real-world scenarios where batteries do fail or degrade beyond usable capacity outside of warranty periods. Warranty Limitations: The warranties mentioned (7-10 years) are indeed conservative, but that doesn't mean all batteries will perform at 70-80% after that time. The warranty is a safeguard, not a guarantee of battery health. Moreover, what if you keep your car beyond the warranty period? The cost then falls squarely on the owner. Real-World Data vs. Optimism: The use of Geotab's data on battery degradation is optimistic, but it's just one perspective. Other studies might show different rates of degradation, especially under less than ideal conditions. Second-Hand Value and Repurposing: While it's commendable to highlight second-life applications for batteries, this doesn't negate the cost if you need a new battery for your EV. Repurposing doesn't mean you won't face the cost of replacement for your personal use. Comparison with ICE Vehicles: The comparison to ICE vehicle maintenance costs is somewhat misleading. While maintenance for ICE vehicles can be high, it's spread out over time, unlike the potentially large one-time cost of an EV battery. Moreover, not all ICE vehicles will require major component replacements like transmissions within 10 years. Future Battery Costs: The assertion that battery costs might drop significantly in the future is speculative. Current prices can still be prohibitive for many, and there's no guarantee that technological advancements will decrease costs as rapidly as hoped. Regenerative Braking and Tyre Wear: While regenerative braking reduces brake wear, the increased weight of EVs does lead to faster tyre wear, which adds to maintenance costs. Emerging Industries: The idea that the market for reconditioned batteries will grow with demand is hopeful but not yet a reality. The infrastructure for affordable battery replacement or reconditioning is not as developed as for ICE parts. Racing vs. Real-World: Drawing parallels between Formula E/F1 battery tech and consumer EVs is an optimistic stretch. The extreme conditions and specialized care in racing don't directly translate to everyday vehicles. Your blog oversimplifies and downplays a significant financial risk for EV owners. Battery life and replacement costs remain a valid concern, especially for those who plan to keep their vehicles long-term. EVs have many advantages, but battery longevity and cost are still among the key considerations for potential buyers, not just an exaggerated "scare story."

[@mtower235]

These are laughable. I’m in America and it can’t even get me to the lake if we run the AC.

[@stewartrobinson5114]

Enjoy your factual vids! However, you forgot to mention the HUGE amount of PERSONAL DATA the car collects; your driving habits, your responses, your conversations (yes!), your awareness, your overal safety rating etc. This info is SOLD to 3rd Party Corporations, Insurance Groups & our glorious Gov! It's very unlikely you will be told this when you buy (were you?!). And DO NOT FORGET the MASSIVE CARBON FOOTPRINT of these Vehicles! I still enjoy your vids!

[@FutureSystem738]

LOL :-). Do you own a smart phone? That’s absolutely next level data gathering compared to your car. P.S. All vehicles have a huge carbon footprint, and especially ICE. If you’re that worried about it, ride a bicycle, or else having an EV charged purely off solar is the way to go. Over ten years that’ll be way less carbon footprint than ANY ICE vehicle.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, privacy is an issue, but not specific to EVs or towing so I didn't mention it.

[@stewartrobinson5114]

@@L2SFBC Yes thanks. I was having a general winge about loss of privacy. It was a very informative vid!

[@stewartrobinson5114]

@@FutureSystem738 Yes I agree. I was having a general winge about the loss of privacy being thrust on us! I have android, not better, but less invasive!

[@EddieKocwa]

Just a fyi. The lightning from AUSEV is SOCI compliant. This is very important, it has the connect vehicle feature disabled as it is sold to airports etc.

[@iainhetherington4608]

Absolutely useless

[@L2SFBC]

Why?

[@iainhetherington4608]

Simply ,for that money you could buy a good Japanese dual cab truck with far more capability and much quicker and simpler fuel loading , sure it wouldn’t have the speed but we are limited to certain speeds every where in Aus so that point is mute But thanks for the info