Why Legacy OEMs Lack the Mindset to Develop Tomorrow's Cars - Autoline After Hours 677

[@kevtheobald]

The software development costs seemed over stated. Tesla is always improving the software because they want their new vehicles to be the best. That same software can often be shared with already existing owners. Tesla spent the development money for future sales, but as a bonus they can offer current customers an improving ownership experience at a small cost to Tesla. I bought my Model 3 in June. I have many updates including improved camera image quality, blind spot detection, charging station congestion info, better Tesla app features and more. It was the Tesla owners who talked about how there vehicle got improvements over the years the help sell me on getting one. The notion that you have to have a ton of subscribers to make software development worthwhile seem weak to me.

[@ethalund]

This is a key reason Tesla limit the number of models, as more models would exponential increase the software versions to maintain over time.

[@drewchristy]

​​@@ethalundThere are a lot more reasons for Tesla to do that. One of the biggest is staying focused. Tesla also understands that having many different models are simply not needed. GM still thinks they need 35 BEV models to be successful. Most of which will be just badge engineering which has really hurt the legacy brands. Legacy doesn't do anything different unless they are forced to. Look at how long it has been since Tesla introduced OTA updates to the industry. As of today there are still very few (if any) legacy models that feature it. Legacy brands version of OTA is to upsell you services that you don't need and few wants.

[@joeking433]

Yeah, we know, you're a Tesla fanboy. Ho hum.

[@kevtheobald]

@@joeking433 Wow Joe, way to contribute. Just saying something that Tesla does is just stating what they do. Too bad that causes you such suffering. True fanboy statement would have been something along if the lines of "Tesla has mind-blowing software and the most amazing tech that no one else will ever match." Just saying the updates I got on vehicle since buying it shows what is possible and my point was costs of doing such a thing is small and not requiring a bunch of paying subscriptions.

[@joeking433]

@@kevtheobald You're a Tesla fanboy. For sure. It gets SO boring to a few Tesla fanboys take over a comment section. Smh.

[@Derpy1969]

Car, Truck, and SUV of the year awards are bought, not won.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

😂

[@joeking433]

Prove it, kid!

[@TurdFergusen]

@@joeking433you think there is integrity in anything? the oscars are a circle jerk, auto mags make their money by advertising

[@dirkbester9050]

@@joeking433 Something of the Year is won by the biggest advertiser of the year. Best case a new company still too small to advertise gets a bone thrown their way and win some made up category, but the expectation is they start to advertise, and soon. Tesla never did and so they get a truly enormous amount of media hate. Which brainwashes people like you who don't think for themselves and just repeat slogans they hear from other people. Have you ever seen a best of the year article with best budget, best premium, best for a full moon, best handling, best UI, best if blah blah blah list? Why so many categories? Yes, they are making all their advertisers happy. Ever seen a top 10 list with all one company except #9 and #10 from some obscure brands? Well no advertisers here, the whole site is that corporations ad campaign. Ever read a Consumer Reports article that says Tesla is crap and smile because they are confirming what you think? Yes, they are subscriber funded and so "honest". Although they also have massive corporate "donations" and that side is run by an ex Ford? GM? exec. Good job Joe! You swallowed all the nonsense Ford and GM feeds you and smiled after wiping your chin! How do I know this? Gosh Joe, some people know how the sausage is made. If you truly are interested you can just go google and educate yourself. That is not my job, ask your parents for a refund.

[@advandermeer740]

@Gary The Tesla Model 3 RWD costs $38k. You say EV's cost $20k more than their ICE powered equivalents. What ICE powered equivalent costing €18k would you want to compare the Tesla Model 3 RWD to?

[@ethalund]

And that does not account for the higher ICE total cost of ownership.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Gary is a nice guy, but a lost cause. Good of you to try though. 😊 His question was either from a position of bias or ignorance, or both. Really silly question.

[@joeking433]

Wow, a lot of Tesla fanboys in the world!

[@tesla_tap]

@@joeking433- And even more Tesla haters - oil companies, ICE makers, dealers, and those who are just hate anything better than what they own.

[@advandermeer740]

@@joeking433 You clearly are not a fan boy, so maybe you can answer the question without bias.

[@tesla_tap]

Tesla’s OTA does not normally update everything. It only sends the module that needs updating. It’s another complex layer in making an OTA system efficient and effective. On top of OTA, you need an exceptionally secure system. It’s another complex area most automakers have never delt with in depth.

[@_PatrickO]

Legacy auto's only interest in "security" was encrypted canbuses to stop 3rd party addons/mods from being used. They want you to buy a new car for new features. Legacy auto never cared about real security. You can steal legacy auto cars that have keyfobs with ease. Despite secure fobs being available since the mid 2010s, legacy auto has continued to use the insecure fobs to this day.

[@jamiehagan1724]

It’s like watching a big game of ‘how long can we not mention Tesla’ despite in depth discussions on electric vehicles, new technology, infotainment…..

[@learning_the_hard_way]

The dude in the grey shirt kept saying, "It's nothing new" , taking away how innovative and effective Teslas OTA is. It's so annoying. It's a bunch of old dudes that don't like change.

[@BryceLovesTech]

That’s because Tesla doesn’t get checks from oil companies, so they’re not allowed to talk about them

[@ultrarichie]

New drinking game!

[@Bellinghamimager]

Exactly right Jamie

[@ismailnyeyusof3520]

29:56 Tesla was finally mentioned.

[@ethalund]

You didn't cover the impact of Teslas 48V architecture and token ring on SDV and how that will change the supplier network and enable plug-n-play of hardware in future automobiles. We are only seeing the beginning and Tesla is defining it and have shared it with the industry as Jim Farley has acknowledged.

[@MaxDankOG]

I can’t wait to take my favorite classic cars and rewire them with modern 48V plug and play it’ll allow the almost infinite recycling of older cars with modern EV drivetrains. The future looks bright!

[@echoeversky]

Tesla even wrote a manual that shaved off years of wrapping their brains around the challenges.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

If John went down that path he would have initiated a system reboot with the other three panelists. They were speaking in 2024 like we were in 1994.😂

[@drewchristy]

​@@BTC_Minarchisthahaha... So true!

[@joeking433]

Ho hum.

[@MossMini]

This Legacy Engineer warned the Tech community of shipping un-ready vehicles, yet that 's exactly what GM did with the EV Blazer.

[@ismailnyeyusof3520]

55:00 ‘without losing the good parts’ of traditional automotive industry. What good parts of the horse and buggy were retained in the automotive industry? Maybe the seats workmanship?

[@joewilder]

Anyone who hasn't gotten very far with SDV should consider whether they might as well go to 48V before they start. Otherwise they will have to do it all over again.

[@ismailnyeyusof3520]

Sam mentioned software has been in the automotive industry for 50 years but I believe it was more firmware that he was working on. The software in a Tesla vehicle is a whole different animal.

[@joewilder]

If you look at car care nut on the Hyunday EV6, you'll find how vastly superior the Tesla Model 3 is to the Hyundai.. The mechanical and information systems are not even comparable. The fit and finish was a little better on the Hyundai, but on which one is more advanced and likely to have less problems it's got to be the Tesla.

[@davidhancock91]

Tesla the most recalled manufacturer next to Ford. Ford sell a lot more vehicles than Tesla. Terrible build quality and lying about their products capabilities.

[@joeking433]

Always a Tesla fanboy in the crowd!

[@tesla_tap]

@@joeking433- Always a Tesla hater in the crowd! The difference in recalls is Tesla applies them to 100% of the fleet over the air (and most of them are trival issues that owners don't care about). Ford - take it to a dealer, and they are lucky if 30% of the recalled cars ever get the recall applied. Tesla Build quality today is better than Ford or GM.

[@joeking433]

@@tesla_tap I just get tired of arrogant Tesla bullies putting down all the other car companies. There's room for everybody, you don't have to despise legacy and get yourself all full of hate wanting to see their demise. Tesla is only going to be making a small part of the total car market sales by 2030 and someone has to make the other 80% of the cars demanded worldwide, right?

[@joeking433]

@@tesla_tap A Ford tech came out and did two recalls on my Ford Maverick at my home. Nicest guy you'd ever want to meet!

[@BTC_Minarchist]

These AAH sessions are so cringe. Sam is way out of his depth on this topic, and Sonia Mark, to a lesser degree. It's clear John knows more about this topic then the panelists and Gary, bless his heart, is lost. John, please bring on some engineers that know this stuff and are working directly with the tech. These two guys are so far removed from the work it's laughable. Maybe you can get a panel of GM, Ford, Tesla and Toyota software teams. Anybody but these analysts and journalists that don't really get it. It's so hard to sit through these discussions when the guest panelists are this bad.

[@user-to2rf1rj5v]

53:19 this is not true Sam. I got the update, which also included a lot of cool new features for the Holiday update, and it didn't break anything. In fact, in many years of owning them I've never had a Tesla update break anything at all. The same is true of all of the family members and friends I know who own them.

[@BryceLovesTech]

If Sam had his way, we would all be using 8 track players

[@legostud]

New software goes into making the car to feel fresh again. I also have subscribed to enhanced autopilot for a month to go on a road trip. I won’t pay monthly for it though, because it’s to expensive, but I’ll happily pay to use it short term.

[@jayyocis8643]

Volkswagen's early EV was not able to OTAU over the air update because all the components were from so many suppliers which were not set to do that. And the fact that the vehicles didn't have antennas to even receive an update.

[@davidbeppler3032]

VW EVs today can not OTA for the same reasons.

[@omelborpon3159]

All true, although I prefer USB stick updates. USB is much quicker without too much more work, is less likely to crash halfway through, and may be more secure.

[@dirkbester9050]

@@omelborpon3159 Haha you used USB in the same sentence as "secure". If only you knew what a huge unfixable joke that is. As for secure, it is either cryptographically secure or it is not. USB, WiFi, ethernet cable, etc is not relevant.

[@davidbeppler3032]

SDV is, we build it with 350 mile range, and 450 hp. But we sell it for $75k, so it gets tax credits, with only 275 mile range and 375hp. Then we allow owners to "upgrade" for $25k! Then we can claim the $25k as separate from sales so it is taxed and stock indexed differently! Win/win/win! And the best part?! It looks like we "improved" the vehicle, when all we did was lock range and performance behind a pay wall! Now, how much can we charge monthly for heated seats and chilled cup holders?

[@temper44]

Can you put in timestamps for those that don't have a whole hour to spare? Thanks.

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

The ABS software guy worked for a supplier. OEMs don’t understand what he just explained.

[@tempcadoganenright]

Who came up with the software defined vehicle? Why not mention the T word?

[@ha3516]

Tesla has been working for 10 years to get to Ethernet. They had to design a completely new set of controllers and interfaces for every connected part of the vehicle. They also moved to 48V, eliminating 75 pounds of wiring. The result is centralized vehicle control function, and gigabit speeds, making it possible to run everything over a single cable. Not a single CAN bus anywhere. Cybertruck is the best example so far. Tesla will complete this transition with the new small $25K car. Redesigning current models is not going to happen. Gary's questions make it clear he is a hardware guy and does not look at the world from the software side. Just think about writing code with if-then-else statements to control everything - batteries, environmental, safety, power, steering, infotainment, etc. Source of the software changes 180 degrees. The OEM will need to provide the software specs for suppliers, or build their own, or buy Chinese. VW found out how hard this is. All parts need to be a single architecture that is planned, rather than just happening over time. Now add in autonomous, attempting to do it with if-then-else logic to understand reality. It is impossible. Ford, Stallantis, and GM don't do AI. Now add in robots making the vehicles. Tesla already makes a vehicle in 10 hours. that will drop fast with gigacastings and robots. John always makes the comparison of checkers vs. chess. It's worse than that. And Jim Farley knows it best. Mary is clueless.

[@philparker1278]

Just a note. Agree with most of what you stated here. But a bit of a correction - there are CAN bus on the Cybertruck - but they are used locally off of local controllers in the truck. The “etherloop” is what is used at the higher level to connect the controllers, but these controller can and do then use a CAN bus to connect some of their local components. If I remember correctly, also technically it is not “ethernet” - it uses the same physical wiring and is the same as ethernet at the same level, but the signaling and network protocol is different. IIRC that’s part of why they named it “etherloop”. I think there may also have been mention that the addressing system and protocol are designed to allow transmission of CAN bus protocol messages over it.

[@davidmenasco5743]

​@@philparker1278The discussion on Munro Live about the network architecture, with the five CT team leaders was pretty extraordinary. The software lead spilled some interesting beans.

[@Tooradj]

Is there an effort to develop an international protocol for how software interacts with hardware in SDVs or the days of driving 20 or 30 year old cars are over? Without a standard, will our cars be as disposable as our mobile phones the minute manufacturers decide they won’t support the software?

[@LionheartLivin]

Great question!!!

[@dccali5670]

These guys hate Tesla. Once the OEMs go bankrupt, they will be out of a job.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Probably true

[@joeking433]

No, you just hate every car company BUT Tesla!

[@ckennylin717]

The downside to SDV is the manufacturers will eventually try to maximize revenue through feature subscriptions i.e. heated seats and eventually cars will become mobility-as-a-service where you buy a license to use the hardware (car) and its features - once you "sell" the "car" to the next "subscriber" they will need to relicense the "mobility" and "features". This trend echoes how computer & telecom hardware / OS / Server / Cloud have been sold - customer pays for a "license" (subscription) and enable hardware / software "features" as needed. They can easily be remotely disabled if the customer doesn't pay.

[@davidmenasco5743]

From the point of view of auto OEMs, what you're describing is actually the sole reason why they are interested in making Software Defined Vehicles. For some background, you can look up Techno-Feudalism. Basically, we have entered a new socio-economic era. Software products do not have a per unit cost for parts and labor. So the profit potential is in effect infinite. This, it has been pointed out, is not traditional capitalism. It is a new kind of economy. SDV moves the automotive segment into the new post-capitalist era.

[@AbleLawrence]

Tesla: Big Elephant in the room they shall not name. “We came up with the software defined automobile… LOL😂

[@dclpgh]

Lets face it. Tesla caught this industry with it pants down with SDVs. Its 2024 And The OEMs are still struggling to build a 2015 model s.

[@Pernection]

Tesla was a small player that got money from Mercedes and Toyota and sold credits. Their drive train is their real good product.

[@dclpgh]

@@Pernection So? They knew what to do with that money once they got it. Not so small now are they?

[@dclpgh]

@@Pernection The subject of the show today is why Tesla is so successful. SOFTWARE.

[@bru512]

Exactly. Tesla is a software company first, and then they integrate hardware (if required) into their software stack. I say (if required), because they just eliminated the door handles on the Cybertruck. Software gives you capabilities that don't even require hardware, or at least, much less hardware Legacy still thinks they are moving metal and adding buttons and an infotainment system. All this talk about legacy changing, is totally wasted conversation as their leadership needs to change first. Regardless, Tesla's organizational structure is it's secret sauce. When everyone has skin in the game, the entire company is aligned and working together in the same direction.

[@ethalund]

@@bru512 No Tesla is a manufacturing company first, software is just an enabler. If not Apple would build cars today.

[@thedownwardmachine]

It’s very dismissive to say that implementing SDV isn’t that big a deal just because the idea has been around for a long time. The same is true of landing a rocket in order to reuse it. The idea is old but the execution is monumental and the subsequent advantages are dominating. It’s clear from the Bolt that SDV is non trivial to accomplish. Now Tesla is ahead by 12 years and counting.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

These guys, John aside, probably run Windows 98 on their laptops and get confused if they switch between Android and IOS. They are not qualified or credible panelists for this discussion.

[@philparker1278]

Exactly my reaction. All this garbage about “the idea not being new”. Like it took a genius to think of software updatable vehicles. All the while shifting in his chair. The reason that the legacy manufacturers did not do it is because it’s damned difficult and a lot of work and you have to have the balls and commitment to do it. The idea is obvious. You get zero merit points for having the idea. There’s other factors at play too - the legacy manufacturers for years have been focused on driving every last dime in costs out of the vehicles. They have done this by pushing as much as possible of in components to third party companies and then having companies compete on price for supply of those components. This has resulted in a mess of third party components with little in-house knowledge on those systems and no ability to make those components updatable. And there’s been zero view to the vehicle as a cohesive whole system. They’ve painted themselves into a corner both with backward management which cannot see the future and make difficult changes, and by being focused on individual component costs over what is needed for the future. Must, good or bad, has the balls to force thru change, and does not have to answer to some bureaucracy - but that’s what the legacy manufacturers have to deal with… Just look at Volkswagen with their Cariad software platform - they’re throwing crazy amount of resources at it and it’s STILL crap.

[@philparker1278]

Mean to say “Musk, good or bad” lol, not “Must, good or bad”

[@thedownwardmachine]

@@philparker1278 Totally. And it made sense to hold off when all the OEMs were doing it since they formed a kind of detente in doing business as usual. Vertical integration means taking on a lot of risk and the rewards take a lot of vision to achieve, so why do it? But now that Tesla has made it over the wall, the advantages it will see puts the rest in a tough position. Tesla will save a ton on copper and weight just from wire reduction, and using just one big chip will be cheaper (and easier to swap) than a hundred smaller ones. That’s to say nothing of improved customer experience and manufacturer control.

[@davidmenasco5743]

​@@philparker1278It's not so much that it's terribly difficult to do. The challenge for legacy auto, just as the guest was saying, is that they really need to go deep, and basically throw out everything. They have to take a whole bunch of their most valuable assets and throw them down the toilet, before they can even begin to build the new system. And after they've thrown out all their assets, then they have to work out a whole new conceptual understanding of the product and its development. And then they have to work out a quick and efficient way to bring that whole new product to market, and how to market that product. So basically, they have to burn down the whole operation and start from scratch. That they're even trying is kind of admirable. If any of them survive the next fifteen years intact, it will be a miracle.

[@relax-ie3mp]

Gentlemen, very timely discussion on the SDV. It shows the innovative BlackBerry/AWS IVY platform is about two years ahead of the auto industry. Part of IVY is an adaption layer you talked about in 27:30. IVY can also create virtual sensors that can replace physical sensor in some case (load sensor) or non-existing sensor (tire wear sensor). MIH is an IVY customer as well as a channel. IVY is a centralized devleopment platform for MIH. MIH will bring SDV to big or small OEMs. OEM who can't adapt to SDV will shrink. Some big OEM who wants to control the whole SW stack run into integration problems like you all mentioned in the podcast. Please do more podcast like this with informed guests to bring us a good picture of the auto industry.

[@slidewaze]

Love the program and really like that you are back in the studio, however..... the sound. Makes it hard to listen to when the levels aren't even between guests or even responses. Just thought your 'people' might want to know. Some sound processing or eq perhaps? Thanks!

[@davidmenasco5743]

There's an issue with the mics or cabling or something. Last week and this week. Needs some attention.

[@slidewaze]

@@davidmenasco5743 Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed. 👍

[@DaRockCRX]

Is there any chance, that you guys update your legacy cameras? looks a little bit like watching a talkshow on a 2000 SD plasma tv.

[@Northbaylandscaping]

17:52 Lol Like when ford put that volume circle on the screen of the mach E. Ah... well wouldn't it been cheaper to leave the button on the steering wheel? Ford, "but we asked our customers" lol who did they ask? like two people?

[@frankcoffey]

Planned obsolessence is part of the legacy auto business model. There is no way in hell they want to make an updatable vehicle. Consumers want to replace vehicles with "fixed" features more often and that's key to future sales. No amount of production, engineering, or recall savings will replace that. On the other hand if you are a company with the intent to disrupt the industry you make a list of all the things the legacy companies don't want to do and do exactly that.

[@davidmenasco5743]

Those are fair points. But from the point of view of basic economics, software revenue is not tied to per unit costs like parts and labor. Thus the profit potential is in effect infinite. The automakers are all trying to figure out how to get some of that new-economy recurring revenue. So they are struggling against these old tendencies and grasping for a cut of something that is new to them. It's going to be a big paradigm shift.

[@johnkinsfather6369]

John after your sponsor break could you reintroduce your guest and their background.

[@joewilder]

It seems like it would also be helpful to standardize on a particular tablet, so that could also be easily updated. Tablets can be as cheap as 100-200 dollars.

[@daves1646]

SDV does REQUIRE a lifetime view to features to have / add so that the base is ‘over-provisioned’ in key areas. It REQUIRES a look to SPEND on the future of the vehicle at the time of manufacture, so MINIMAL hardware changes are needed in the future.

[@Sneaker_Net]

Great show guys, thanks!

[@CC-yr2nx]

With everything said in this show it is evident that Legacy auto is dead in the water.

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

Legacy fired all their software and electrical engineers when they spun off their components groups - Delphi, Visteon, Denso, etc. By partnering with legacy auto, the Chinese JVs adopted this model, and they also lack the software capability. There is no competition for Tesla.

[@GET2222]

Honda made the list? Prius? Bought and sold. I’m gone. Old fogies…

[@technologyandsociety21C]

Mark Wakefield is a terrific guest: knowledgeable and articulate!

[@Gargamel-n-Rudmilla]

Have anyone on this panel every heard of Over The Air Updates. No one has product cadance like Tesla. My model 3 from 2019 is only long in the tooth because of the new Highland, otherwise it is as uptodate as a 2022 model 3 in terms of software. Whatever survey you used it rather conveniently left out the best selling car in the entire industry.... Tesla model Y. How biased ia are these 'survey'.... Very. 😮

[@joeking433]

The M3 has BEEN stale. Same old design for years and years.

[@Gargamel-n-Rudmilla]

@@joeking433 that is why they have the highland. Overdue but I have sold my 3 and have highland on order. I'm based in the UK.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@joeking433 Toyota is so stale. Corolla and Accord are 50 years old.

[@AbleLawrence]

How could you not have considered CyberTruck!

[@davidbeppler3032]

They only value truck prototypes they can drive. They could not get a Cybertruck to test. Production numbers do not matter, just if they could drive the only one the company built for them to test.

[@flattire707]

Sorry, 11 minutes in and I have had enough. New models with additional cup holders or a new grill is not progress. 48 Volt and drive by wire is new progress.

[@legostud]

The Ram 1500 won luxury car of the year. It’s a nice smooth ride with the air suspension and active dampening shocks. Not all pickups ride like a traditional truck.

[@gmv0553]

😂

[@6258489]

If America had put its money into their public transit, instead of its' highways and suburbs, then the people who enjoy driving would get to enjoy driving even more.

[@LionheartLivin]

Wow, the title of this video, nice work guys!!!;)🎉

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

The war between OEMs & Tier 1s! Vertical de-integration - Delphi, Visteon, Denso etc.

[@andre495]

It's a shame to see the traditional car manufacturers running around the pool, afraid to jump into the cold water (called SDV), running faster and faster on irrelevant excuses not to jump in, running so fast that they fly centrifugally away from the swimming pool. Later they will realize that swimming was required, not flying, and for lack of money they are brought down... Jump into the cold water......NOW......!!!!!!!!

[@joeking433]

You are the "pitty" with your spelling.

[@tempcadoganenright]

Toyota Prius? Why did the world's best selling car not make the list?

[@davidbeppler3032]

Because Hybrids catch fire 250% more than BEV and get the full US tax credit. Gotta push the metal. Has nothing to do with safety, reliability, or value.

[@johnmqueripel2367]

Incredible how these old guys don't seem to want to talk about Tesla who have the world's best selling vehicle, the world's safest most technically advanced electronics, software and manufacturing of NEV,s.

[@BryceLovesTech]

Agreed

[@Northbaylandscaping]

40:57 Tesla customers pay like $10 a month for connectivity so, there is a subscription. Plus customers can increase power for a price using their phone app. It's brilliant. My 2017 tesla new had a completely different look dash wise compared to was it is today because of updates. My 2022 ram 3500 software is the same as my 2014 ram which it worked better in 2014 and today it's a joke.

[@AbleLawrence]

Cost of a software defined vehicle would be lower when you go all-in. Half-measures would increase cost. And therefore OEMs that hesitate to fundamentally rethink vehicle architecture would go bankrupt.

[@rwhirsch]

Tesla writes ALL of it's auto software not "most of it" as chubby boy chimed in.

[@elemenop718]

😂 getting my car updated overnight is a problem? Versus what? Chevy having a stop sale of the blazer EV? Please. Grey shirt is old and has had too many beers in his life. Time to retire

[@Spooms1961]

This group of guys are NOT talking about how Tesla got it right years ago and is STILL getting it right by having the most popular car in the world nowadays, the Model Y. And these guys are not ever mentioning Tesla as an American company… WTF? Where are their research notes? Nowhere to be seen. I’m very suspicious about this site being able to rise above the American media’s hate for Tesla and its non-advertising stance. I guess when you sell every car you make because it is what people aspire to, then why waste money on advertising? These guys are missing the point. An AMERICAN company got it right years ago. Why aren’t they saying that and not all this Chinese gibberish?

[@royh6526]

I think the issue about lack of focus on ride and handling is simply that it is a mature technology and although this is still important in high end sports cars, it is so similar in other cars as the difference is negligible.

[@jed2049]

Dude, Tesla gives constant updates and upgrades for FREE! Tesla customers LOVE THIS. And guess what - they stick with Tesla.

[@joeking433]

Pumping the stock, eh?

[@tesla_tap]

Looks like the negative joe bot is working overtime.

[@joeking433]

@@tesla_tap I'm not negative! I just hate Tesla bullies!

[@tesla_tap]

@@joeking433 - If I missed something positive you said, I'm sorry. All I've seen are your negative comments that are often unrelated to the topic at hand. Would be nice if you had something or anything positive to say.

[@edornelas8275]

Tesla updates don’t break “things” like they guys stated or implied. That’s VW, Rivian & others

[@terryanderson9317]

Hey guys look at what blackberry QMX is doing with SDV

[@anhta31]

Kind of hilarious to see OEMs unable to catch up to 2010 Tesla software.

[@MrAdmeers]

2.3 million preorders of the Cyber truck, 48volt, drive by wire, over a ton less than the Hummer EV and they pick the Silverado EV with the crappy pouch batteries?

[@joeking433]

Yeah, and at $40k, to! Hahahaha! If you are willing to spend $100k you can have that $40k Cybertruck!

[@amosbatto3051]

It sounds like they chose the list of contestants before the Cybertruck was released. I'm pretty sure that the Cybertruck will be in the list for next year.

[@joeking433]

@@amosbatto3051 Nah, too expensive and not in mass production. When it proves itself and is sold for $60k it has a shot. Maybe. And that will be years from now.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

Get the facts straight. Those are $100 refundable pretend reservations and 99% of them will never put in a "preorder" that is non-refundable $1000.

[@christianbergeron]

Excellent show today, I enjoyed particularly the conversation at around 18-20 mins into the show about customers. I owned Toyotas, Lexus, VW, Porsche, Nissan, Ford and Chevys. Handling, performance are the treats of probably less than 20% of the market yet, it seems like it getting 80% of the media attention. The big 3 have focused on one profitable segment, so they getting what they wanted with a few exceptions. One last note, I now own a Bolt (slightly different than an 911 which I loved) for 4 yrs now, it is meeting all of my needs (not bragging rights). So I say, customers, customers, customers are the 3 top priorities and if you make right to them, you will make money. Case in point, Toyota. Future case to demonstrate, Hyunday group👍🏻 and unfortunately Chinese

[@Barbados1969]

These guys are exactly why OEMs are so bad…

[@RCdiy]

Bingo

[@urbanstrencan]

Great to see you back, to more awesome podcasts in 2024😊

[@daves1646]

The early discussion turned to CADENCE is critical - fresh is best, and ride/handling excellence is not as compelling. Well, a year ago I bought an EV. One of the H/K group EVs (Niro EV) and a low trim level VW ID4. I was almost sure I was going to buy the NiroEV b/c good range, decent quality, good tech, new design …. But I bought the ID4 b/c it DROVE far better. Has steering feel/weight, rides smooth but very well controlled, quiet. The Niro’s design was fresh, but content and quality was poorer at the same price point (within $500). The ID4 had the features I REGULARLY USE and drove great. The Niro had glitzier look, but cheaped out on halogen lights, numb slightly drifty steering. ID4 was a great drive, features I used, but plain looking. The Niro was a vanilla pudding drive in a beautiful wrapper. ID.4 got it.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Nobody pumps out new designs like the Korean and Chinese auto makers. It's unreal.

[@taylorc2542]

Another thing they didn't discuss is the geopolitical aspect of oil. China has none. They are completely dependent on imports and could not survive under a USN blockade. The CCP understood this and hence placed enormous pressure on transitioning to EVs.

[@robertcase4995]

Wow that was amazing insight! Great show.

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

Wuling mini is not allowed in large Chinese cities due to safety requirements.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

I won't allow it in my bathtub for the same requirements.

[@joeking433]

Source?

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

@@joeking433worked in Shanghai for 12 years for the JV partner of Wulling. So, me.

[@joeking433]

@@adrianodiblasio2934 So I'm supposed to believe some clown on the internet? Really? Do you have any REAL proof?

[@amosbatto3051]

I just spent a couple minutes googling in English and I can't find any evidence that the Wuling Mini EV is not legal in large Chinese cities. If you have evidence otherwise, you should post the title of the articles. Otherwise, I am going to assume that you are posting misinformation.

[@robwalker4548]

Clearly affordable vehicles were excluded. Lack of Affordability is going to kill the automotive industry long term.

[@rwhirsch]

did i miss the part where they mentioned "this is a competition between all non-Tesla vehicles".

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

Could’ve,would’ve, should’ve - Tesla did it OTA, 48V, Ethernet .. good luck legacy.

[@joeking433]

Always a Tesla bully in the crowd. Ho hum.

[@tesla_tap]

@@joeking433- And always a Tesla hater bot in the crowd.

[@ogtej]

Only one EV winner and two EVs total nominated 🤔 ?

[@tesla_tap]

And because Tesla doesn't give out free cars to reviewers, they were not even considered.

[@Beatles4Sale.]

I was hoping you would talk about the possibility of licensing from manufacturers. We see what happened with NACS. Will we see it with the base OS in a car like Android and Apple once the dust settles? Some think Tesla will eventually license their powertrain to other manufacturers. Licensing of different software in an EV? Will the industry consolidate parts across manufacturers the way that has been only partially successful in the ICE world? Standardization of battery swapping for the trucking industry by designing it the same way in each vehicle?

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

Tesla built SDVs and built out their charging network - Legacy?

[@TL243]

17:57 yes. So true.

[@sergiomessina2037]

Sorry guys, I really tried to watch the video, but I was so bored by the fact that Captain obvious wrote the script for the video today.

[@joeking433]

Don't let the door hit you on the ass!

[@CraigMcDonald1234]

Sam has a hard time saying anything good about Tesla......

[@DanielHernandez-st9tt]

They act like EVs some new fangled thing but we all know horseless carriages been around awhile now.

[@chrisg8995]

We all know the real car of the year…. Cybertruck.

[@DuarteMolha]

The guy in the gray shirt saying he worked on software had me giggling... what you call software is not what you think it is.

[@frederickbowdler8169]

Government has to legislate what car companies can produce as a minimum and max specification as to quality and reliability otherwise the the motor industry is in danger of self implosion..

[@javierferrer8898]

One of the main reasons I’m buying a Tesla in 2 years is because it’s fully updatable and it’s far ahead of any car I’ve researched so far, I know in the near future the technology will get better or what the cybertruck currently has will go to there future cars. The 48v the way the wire harness communicates with the rest of the car . Steer by wire which you can modify to your preference. Over the air updates. My friends Tesla always gets better year to year because it’s updated fully. More costly maybe for Tesla but if other car manufacturers don’t go to this then not selling a car is worse. Tesla software team is the best , space X employees cross over to Tesla many times when needed, there programming robots , self driving know how, AI knowledge. Building super computers, they know programming is what I’m trying to say.

[@adrianodiblasio2934]

Definition of SDV = Tesla

[@johnkinsfather6369]

Who cares about 0 to 60 other how fast or performance on a test track not Joe public.

[@RayNLA]

“Car of the year” 😂

[@kbmblizz1940]

Steve Jobs vs. Tim Cook. Visionary vs MBA. You don't get it?

[@highlanderapparel]

Kindness is always free the Highlander.😊

[@raarora1]

EVs are cheaper than ICE/Gas cars. Fix your pricing assumptions

[@shanelen]

ford maverick should have won something, that thing is amazing for utility

[@davidbeppler3032]

Ford Maverick wins over priced toy of the year.

[@shanelen]

@@davidbeppler3032 lol, yep, your the type who buys a $69k truck, ass deep in debt, only to realize your upside down with a 72 month loan, lol

[@daves1646]

Oh, the modern computer components “cost more ….” Well, if a company wants to move into the future - it needs to BE in the future. “Beans first” be gone or plan on staying in the past, present best case. Look into the needs of a future >2-3 years forward or don’t bother.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Sam's comments on this topic just showed, again, how out of his depth he is. John tried to throw him a lifeline, but it didn't matter. Embarrassing.

[@andyfreeze4072]

guys, i would like a pick up that rides too. I dont necessarily need 3tons of towing ability. Leave the boom crash opera for the stage. Nobody until cybertruck even thinks we want a nice ride. Its a dream that they are selling.......but not everyone is buying that dream.

[@davedyer3654]

Prius, are you joking? Call yourself motoring journalists lol. Software defined, just look at Tesla and everyone has tried to copy it.

[@joeking433]

Tesla hasn't changed the looks of the Model 3 for 7 years! WTF?

[@davedyer3654]

@@joeking433 Tesla changed the look of the Model 3 in 2023, they continually update their cars in many ways every year and can do that because they are SDV’s

[@photogol]

These guys seem to be salivating about the potential advertising opportunities from the Chinese auto makers 😂

[@davidhancock91]

Basically the large OEMs don’t want them, and their customers don’t want them, more to the point. 8% of the market want them and they want Tesla’s by the looks

[@user-to2rf1rj5v]

I find it very odd that the Cybertruck wasn't in the running? Or if it was, why it didn't make the top 3 at least?

[@joeking433]

Can you even buy one? And if you can is it under $100k?

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@joeking433 They only pick prototypes they can test. Tesla did not send them a Cybertruck to test. That is why Cybertruck did not win. Production numbers and sales do not matter. IPace was the car of the year. Nobody bought it.

[@hmortensen1]

You have lost me as a viewer, this is crazy. What about the best selling car in the us? The most exciting new truck? You have aworded also rans as winners.

[@Dularr]

We will see how the Ford T3 turns out.

[@RonnieLeeDuck]

Farley sounds very confident about it. I follow Ford earning calls. In the last earnings call Farley said he would take the T3 over a Cybertruck any day of the week. Obviously Farley is paid to to stick up for Ford's products. But Farley is also honest and often freely acknowledges when an automaker is ahead of the game. He doesn't make those statements lightly. Of course the CT had not been released when he made that comment. But I'm sure Ford had a lot of information on what the CT was going to be and Farley would have had in depth discussions with Ford engineers about it.

[@Dularr]

@@RonnieLeeDuck my guess is Tesla and Ford are following the 2020 CAN FD 10BasedT1S standard. Designed for autonomous driving. Supports a 3 wire ethernet standard. 1 wire for high priority signals, a 2 wire for low priority signals and power on the third wire. The standard also supports 36v or 48v. CT releasing the tech, should be good for Farley moving Ford in that direction. There is a reason Farley showed the Tesla 48v paper.

[@RonnieLeeDuck]

@@Dularr I like to think development of the T3 is far down the road toward completion and that the decision to go with 48V or not was decided long before Musk sent automakers the paper about how to implement 48V. Anyway, no doubt questions about the 48V system will be put to Farley and his team whenever they reveal it. I like to think a reveal will be done within the next 5 months.

[@Dularr]

@@RonnieLeeDuck my guess the decision was made in 2020 with the new CAN standard.

[@billsrelectric]

Subscription based features. I will pay for Sirius Radio, but really would be reluctant to pay for other subscriptions. I certainly wouldn't pay for heated seats, for example. BlueCruise? I expect to pay for it upfront when I purchase the vehicle, NOT monthly later on. Unless the price was cheap. $1 a month, sure. $30 bucks a month. No.

[@JohnSmith-qy3cc]

These fossils are so out of date the program is not worth watching. They could be helped by having in hand or on screen actual facts of the current markets, market shares, and so on. They might contrast lost of important factors that today's buyer really is interested in. It is available...

[@davedyer3654]

That guy with the beard is clueless, does he know anything about a Tesla?

[@BryceLovesTech]

Chinese joint venture what a joke it was just a sanctioned form of corporate espionage

[@jayyocis8643]

First off for me; I bought a car and I want it to work. I'll drive it for ten year. I don't want to communicate with the maker about advanced features which I need to subscribe to. I just happened with a 2023 Highlander Hybrid. The Navigation function built in has asked me to subscribe to function updates. To begin with I don't use it. The screen to update comes up every time I turn on the car. I have gone through the update screens to decline the update and it doesn't work. I spent an hour on the phone with Toyota after pressing the SOS button and they could not; get the update screen to stop, nor get me to the screen to update if I wanted too. But the screen keeps popping up. It has spend two days at a dealer and they have not been able to communicate with Toyota any solution. Fu--K Toyota. I feel more for the dealerships who have to deal with customers they want to help in which they don't get the training because Toyota doesn't know what they are doing. The screen still pops up every time I turn on the car until Android Auto kicks in and provides Google maps which works. I use Ways on occasion for its attributes.

[@javierferrer8898]

Imagine if my smart phone came with its own apps and I couldn’t add any other apps or once it came out there was a bug and I couldn’t updated to fix it. I would buy the phone that was customizable. Right now that’s what all phones are if you don’t have this no one will buy your phone. Tesla is ahead of the game on this . Other car manufacturers need to get up and not run but fly to catch up.