[EP35] TANA 3v1 Understanding Range punish on large vessels

[@WingZeroType]

I love the Tana myself, thank you for doing a video of one! Always great to hear your thoughts and tips on how to fly certain ships based on their characteristics

[@vicsid9606]

Yeah the Tana has a lot of upside with inventory and armor making their way into the game.

[@arthurvilain7270]

Honestly, I think we'll need to wait for physicalized components and armor to be a thing before we can judge the balance of large ships vs small fighters. Right now we can hit those big lumbering targets wherever we want, and slowly peck away at their giant health pool. Once we have to hit specific places to disable critical components, we may need to get closer into the danger zone of the turrets to aim more precisely. We would also have to take down different shield facings to attack different component, effectively multiplying the shield HP of the bigger ships several times. And armor will likely reduce the effectiveness of repeaters, forcing small craft to rely on more specialized weapons (canons & torpedoes), making them more vulnerable to potential escorts. Also in the situation you showed, the Reclaimer could have jumped out at any time during the 15 minutes this fight took and presumably would have in a "real" situation in the final game. They died because they chose to. Finally, remember that you're easily one of the best fighter pilots in the game right now. I've fought against a few fighters in a Constellation, and let me tell you that turrets are VERY effective against the average player.

[@Avenger__One]

All true, and as they update we will keep making videos:)

[@felixsbert9163]

You are actually the first to show how a reliant can be used it combat. Been looking it up, cause I like it very mutch, but it seemed, like evryone likes it, but nobody knows what to make of it. I'm not a natural born ACE-pilot, so I'm always in need for inspiration and training tips. Thanks alot for your contend and especially for this one.👍😁

[@elitegenesis1583]

Reliant is one of my favorite light ships and it was at one point a awesome ship but it seems like every time they buff something they nerf something else so the ship is constantly in a niche place. I love the Reliant and think for overall gameplay value it is the best starter/Light platform in the game. I hope one day we will get back a full fixed loadout and be able to run 2xS4 with 2xS2 again. The ship is in a weird place because they don't know how to balance it. it's a 75$ Super Hornet that's a light fighter. The 2 platforms are basically the same save for differences in hull hp [which is about 6k on total hull hp] and maneuverability [same pitch, Tana has +4 Yaw, and Super Hornet +5 Roll]. So really you fly them the same you just have to be aware of how much damage your taking. Something to note is that the Tana is a Missile boat. You should be starting your engagements with a missile volley or you really are not fully utilizing the ship the way you should. I have had the Tana for years now and while I can't get on 3.15 I'm hopeful that they will do something to help the ship if it is in a bad spot. Maybe increase Maneuvering using it's partial Xi'an tech as a reasonable excuse to make it fly better but not on the level of say the arrow or Talon. Anyhow as a Veteran Tana Pilot I hope the ship ends up in a good place. I know I'm very unlikely to ever trade it with the extra gameplay it offers beyond combat. Co-pilot/Gunner, 2 log beds, weapon racks, Armor storage, and limited cargo make the ship have a much higher value for me. Sorry that was so long. Thank you for Highlighting what I believe is a under appreciated ship.

[@johnboyd9713]

I love it aesthetically, but the cargo hold is a joke on the Kore for its size. Honestly, they should lengthen her out a bit and up her shields and make her a freelancer competitor or Cutlass competitor (or even a nomad competitor). The remote turret takes guns away from the pilot if you have a copilot, even if they are in missile operator (which seems like a bug I hope).

[@johnboyd9713]

Omg Such good guns and missiles though. I HATE THAT I CANNOT LOVE IT

[@fieryferret]

Thank you for making this video! Started playing 3 months ago, the tana is my first fighter. I can grind HRTs with it no problem, and I know it has potential in PVP with all those guns, I just haven't rushed up on my PVP well enough. I really like that it maintains a narrow cross section as you pitch up (or fail to, provided you keep the roll right), I feel like that's probably a pretty good advantage. I really adore the tana and keep going back to it.

[@garrettdean2752]

well done. I hate that it is possible to take a reclaimer down with size 2 guns, but your flying accounts for a lot of that!

[@DTOXTV]

Always love catching up on your vids man. Some of the best PVP content in SC and so much of it, too!

[@scoont7153]

Amazing info. Love the Tana. Reliants are our Org designated ship. Question I have is why not gimbled on the 4 size 2s?

[@D3LTA2]

Hey! Could I ask what your org is please? I haven't heard of an org that has a designated brand or specific ships... I like the idea of it! I saw a crew all wearing the same armour and colour before and it looked amazing too

[@scoont7153]

@@D3LTA2 Ordo Vanduul Exterminatus is our Org. We have set uniforms for Org Night as well. But with recent patch we haven't used them as much.

[@benthomson1132]

Great video, and it's especially relevant since I have a Tana but I've never felt particularly effective in it. I would LOVE to see a similar video again but with a copilot managing the remote turrets for the bulk of the shooting. Have the pilot use a pair of fixed S2 ballistics and handle the missiles. I *think* it would be pretty effective... but I honestly don't know, I've only flown with a gunner once and we were having technical issues.😕 Downgrading the S2's to S1's so a gunner can make use for the turrets probably is not your normal cup o' tea (not to mention ballistics for the remaining pilot guns), but I can't help but wonder how it would work in the hands of players who are actually competent... as opposed to, ya know, me. Anyway, thanks again, I love this series!

[@EvidensInsania]

So what would your suggestion for the Reclaimer have been to do in this situation?

[@Avenger__One]

Nothing except hold fire, and close distance with a timed push to within 800 THEN open fire for surprise, it's that or Run

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

The Reclaimer had 15 minutes with no quantum interdiction, and no backup. They died because they did not leave, and their escort was late.

[@tangobenign-ran-1869]

Any thoughts on the TANA's maneuverability? I love the Reliants in general. Any thoughts on them this patch? I hear gimbles in the PTU have really given them a fix too.

[@johni6138]

Avenger I know this is old but why were u flying in landing mode? from the visible banding around the cockpit window that seems to be the case.. the ship is much more manueverable in vertical position imo. I have the tana and I love it but yea it's a bit of a paper tiger. plz explain. also congrats on ur move to full time. love the location by the river.

[@CMDR_Birb]

Hey I have a question. Would these tactics apply to a fully crewed 400i fleeing at top speed of 1250 with both its rear dual S3 turrets shooting back at you ?

[@Avenger__One]

Let's fly it and find out

[@rivit7615]

I bet it would take the 400. The entire "keep out of 1k meter range" still applies. The small ship is bssicly dodging in its spiral as the large slower ship cant. 400i is fast in a straight line but is its strafe fast enough to move it out of the way of incoming fire? Hmmm

[@louhodo5761]

LoL Reliant was made a lot tougher and is still made of paper. It does need a agility boost. It is shit for handling

[@tequila6955]

Tana is one of my favorite ships. Just need to learn to fly it like that. Great vid.

[@alexanderdooley5833]

If you get this comment, please do some study on the this ship with a co-pilot. I'm very sure the turret operator could increase the viability of the craft, with it able to cover such a large firing arc, the gunner can track a target past the pilots weapon range. The less the pilot has to worry about shooting the more he can focus on power management and evasion. also as of 3.16 the Tana has 15,260 hull hp, I do know know what each part hp is but that is already double what single seat craft have, and only 4k less than a freelancer.

[@rcole134]

Hello, I just watched your video and I have a question if I may. Would the Vanguard have been better tanking the damage to get in close and deal it's damage or would there have been a better solution? Distance seemed to be it's downfall, especially when it tried to run exposing so much of itself. I'm trying to learn now that I have dual stick and recently purchased a Harbinger.

[@Raised_Skeleton]

As someone who flies a Harbinger, I would think that's the move. You want to aim your nose and get your shots off while you tank damage. Those small fighters can't do as much damage as you can, but you cant catch them if they're flying around you. I don't really do PVP bc I suck, but at least for PVE bounties, I just try to nose around, use top thrusters and reverse to try to make their tight circle a little looser so I can get shots off.

[@borkug1566]

Very good info about attacking bigger ships. Thanks.

[@laserbrain7774]

So cool to find a SC youtuber who is actually into PvP AND the reliant. since you don't really like missiles anyway, is there a reason besides personal to pick the tana over another reliant?

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

I think I found my dogfight training instructor.

[@Artokieffer]

I can hear The Expanse protomolecule sound in the background. :D

[@CathrineMacNiel]

it sounds like DRADIS from Battlestar Galactica

[@SwissMonkey9]

Hey Avenger_One, first of all many thanks for the time you take making your videos (especially the theory part with detailed explanation). As a feedback, it helps a lot to have both the in game capture and then blackboard explanation. I try to follow your rule of 1% improvement a day, but am still very far for your brilliant skills ! I was wondering - if I may ask - how many hours a day do you train/play ?

[@unleashedgaming6284]

great work, thanks for sharing. impressiv skills dude ;) keep it up

[@IzNebula]

Just recently got into Star Citizen and this is one of my favorite ships. Is this ship still decent, I saw your more recent tier list and this was near the bottom and I am wondering if it's a good ship to pvp with. Any recommendations on a decent build for it. Thanks in advance.

[@squirrellordsgaming2772]

I got my Tana during the event in November. I just love it!

[@HeRsChEl-do2fe]

You are the best example that this game depends on skill and not pay to win.

[@timvictor8926]

Impressive flying!

[@LucasGuerriniStudio]

Hey Avenger One, I heard about your channel through Morphologist's new video and came directly looking for a Tana video. Was not disappointed! Great flying and tips! The Tana is my one and only ship and I love it, but I suck at dogfights haha. Do you mind telling us what your loadout was in this case? I could only tell the 6x NDB-28 weapons. Thanks in advance!

[@RicoZaid_]

Awesome narrative, can't wait for more. 👍

[@Baleur]

2:00 doesnt this mean that its a simple consequence of physics, that turrets will never be able to hit a ship at a certain distance (if said ship's pilot knows how to maneuver)? Doesnt this also mean that anti-fighter flak is an absolute necessity to implement into the game for S4+ turrets? Since that would give you a proximity blanket of damage, that could hurt the enemy fighter even if you didnt hit it. Kinda strange CIG didnt figure out something so elementary after 10 years. I suppose if 90% of pilots DONT know how to maneuver properly, then 90% of turret vs fighter results in the turrets winning, creating a false image of this problem not existing.

[@FreedomAintFree1]

When you’re in small ship and using all thruster movements at the same time, it almost removes your hit box. Thrusters up/strafe right/ roll right/thrust forward also. It’s pretty cheap and can be spotted 1100m away. Grey area exploit IMO.

[@tylerstewart3181]

Okay...I will never be this good at flying. I'll stick to scraping hulls for now. Seriously though how do you run circles around people like that? Seems like whenever I fight it's constant jousting and i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong.

[@skypilottom]

You always have a high crime stat in your videos? How do you clear your crime stats when you're finished with your PVP sessions?

[@Avenger__One]

No it's hard enough finding fights as it is, gotta give the space dads all the excuse to come fight, I just got done killing a cutlass blue with a PROSPECT only to be suckered by a fully crewed hammerhead .......... this community man

[@rivit7615]

Soap and water.

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

Nice flying.

[@Infinityxero]

I think I'm gonna finally cave and trade my Avenger Titan for a Tana.

[@Red-V-SB]

Tana vs defender?

[@canopyjunkie]

that chaf use tho :/

[@rivit7615]

Avengerone is immune to such things. Chaff, flares, shields, armor, asteroids.... you may as well be flying a big old ship made of cake against this guy.

[@vicsid9606]

What do you set the range at for the guns? Range control is so important because of the guns being so spread out . Love my Tana and would use it so much more if they'd fix the spawning and bed log issues.

[@Bubble_0f_d00m]

Reliant "they're made of hopes and dreams and toilet paper." Me flying my Tana: "Toilet paper, yes, I agree." Me waiting for it to blow itself up when it spawns halfway in a pad and is damaging itself: "Who made you immortal?!"

[@skepticalpianist3266]

wtf how are you following the redial perfectly hax

[@darkmanha]

Yes reliant love!!!

[@g8trdone]

Have you ever tried to learn how to play the guitar or something and after a few months you think you're doing okay, then your buddy comes over and picks it up and plays it like he's ringing a bell and you didn't know your guitar could sound like that? That.

[@rivit7615]

LOL

[@Solar546]

Exactly that bro 🤣

[@fg1110]

the wings dont work right now

[@davidkouwenberg9608]

I was using my blade I kicked ass

[@uberfu]

Thie situation with larger vessels that can defend themselves being vulnerable to a single Tana - should only be viable during the current development phase of the game. As development progresses and larger ship mechanics come online - it should be unrealistic for a single (any) light fighter to win a 1v1 against ships a Hammerhead / Retaliator/ Idris. So It Does Matter. (1) The Tana would run out of ammo/power before it could completely tear through a larger and better armed ship (2) The best guns that could be put on a Tana should not be effective against larger ships. Even if said larger ships were not very effective at warding off smaller ships - at best it would be a stalemate. So Avenger really should clariofy that this is only realistic at the current state of the game - since THE ONLY functional game mechanic currently in place leans heavy towards fighters and not multicrew mil-spec ships.

[@uberfu]

Yes - you can technically cut a car sized hole through the side of a barn using a BB gun and an unlimited amount of time and ammo; but you are also likley to die of old age before that happens.

[@uberfu]

As for the Reclaimer - I expect these types of ships to be more on par with something like a construction vehicle (IRL); where IDC how much 9mm ammo you have, Hell itself would freeze over and it still wouldn't cut through the reinforced plating. So enjoy your "Tano killing a super large ship" moments now while you can, because medium and large ship mechanics coming online will completely change that (then Spectrum will be flooded with all trhe Arrow players crying coz they can;t 1v1 HHs anymore).

[@Lexekon]

Objectively speaking, it feels off balance to have a single / dual seat fighter able to take down a multi crew ship like that. Your tactics make this outcome reliable, assuming proper execution as you demonstrated. A little pilot training, and the Tana becomes META. I think anyone can see that could be a balance issue.