Bad Coffee In A Cafe - What Should You Do?

[@dyvel]

In the light of this I want to stress the opposite situation - whenever a coffee shop gives you really good coffee, let them know!

[@sallys2423]

YES!

[@roncenti]

That is so true. I am not on the barista side but when I get a good cup of coffee... I mean one you try and are surprised that this tastes better than the default taste you expect... Then I always tell them. I used to be in tech support and people only complained and never said good job. Made my day when that happens so I do this constantly.

[@brandonhoffman4712]

Man you're so right. They at least deserve a shout out, there are only 2 that make my list. Local to me - Bear Coast Coffee (Dana Point) Best road find - Black Velvet Coffee (Mamoth Lakes) The most expensive cup of coffee I've had was an $8.50 cup of Kona coffee on Maui. Flavor wise You can beat it for way less IMO (Volcanica - Ethiopean Yirgacheffe).

[@terubokmasin3247]

That is how I built relationship with the people in my fav coffee shop. Sadly the pandemic killed the biz.

[@joshuarosen6242]

Spot on. I'm very happy to complain (politely) if I don't get what I paid for. If I did and I'm happy with either the product or service, say so. Most people don't and there have been lots of occasions when I've complimented the manager of an establishment and called out good service and every time, they've looked really chuffed.

[@dguerrero115]

I’m a cafe owner, had a customer came to me with constructive criticism. I took his criticism seriously and tweaked our ratio and temperature. He now is a 2x-3x a day customer and brings his friends. It’s extremely important for a cafe owner to constructive criticism seriously.

[@jefftitterington7600]

If it's based on real knowledge and is done the right way. The latter is the real art.

[@johnhogg9756]

Well done. Most places look at you like your an arse and aren’t interested in feedback and deny the issue and make it feel more like you don’t know what your talking about. Nice to know not all places are like that :)

[@raydrysdale2726]

@@jefftitterington7600 practice your latter art as much as your latte art

[@angelwhispers2060]

He was obviously actually knowledgeable and able to describe it in a way that you understood what adjustments to make. And having the language to do that in a constructive way takes both knowledge and skill. Good on you for listening though

[@BrljoMrljo]

God i wish that coffe like yours exists here :(

[@hiandrewfisher]

I just say "It's not my cup of tea" at which point we get into a really confusing conversation that is ultimately equally dissatisfying for everyone.

[@wody21]

Hahaha, tell us more about these confusing conversations! :D

[@brandonhoffman4712]

He asked if you wanted one lump or two. You just scoffed, hrmmfligrbibble! To which he said that's just Bullocks! Everyone turns towards the window looking for Sandra bullocks! DISSATISFACTION, its a 70 year old half dead grunge rocker. Barista slams your drink, ahhhh. Tastes great to me! Would you like another? That'll be $5.45. Also the dude is 6'6" and looks like he owns the joint, for some reason he has blood on his apron like a butcher...

[@willdrug]

that's gold xD

[@Zraknul]

If you're in North America and said it in a British accent they'd probably get it. Or smile politely and hope you leave.

[@jamesgilodi]

Hahahaha class

[@indelible5431]

My go-to doesn't actually make great coffee, they make, good enough coffee. But the fact they've always been so kind and friendly, means I'd rather go drink good enough coffee there over a bad cafe that makes incredible coffee. So I guess another thing to take away from this is, sometimes it's not always about the coffee in a cafe.

[@AnnaDeeDee]

Yes, absolutely! The best coffee I ever had in Berlin was at a place where the barista was rude to the woman behind me for asking for some milk with her drink. The barista thought that whatever she ordered should be enjoyed black and shamed her for it. I never went back and would never recommend the place. On the other hand, my friendly neighborhood café may not foam milk to absolute perfection, but I will keep coming back.

[@margieinnes4638]

@@AnnaDeeDee Yes, agreed, its also about the ambience, the service, the staff. Even the most excellently prepared shot isn't enjoyable if the experience as a whole is unpleasant!!

[@lja1993]

I worked as a barista for a short while. Their knowledge of coffee was on par with Hoff, they introduced me to his channel, and the coffee they did was some of the best I've ever had. But one of the owners treated me like shit and it almost killed my passion for coffee. Speaking as someone on the other side of the counter here, it does matter!

[@bladewolf39]

Yes! Very much this! Even if I had better coffee elsewhere, if I like the cafe enough, great staff, atmosphere and service, I'll be returning as a customer cuz I like the place and its people and want to support the business.

[@charlescoult]

I usually get coffee from the Vietnamese family owned donut shop by my work, only because it's the next best coffee that I can find. the best doesn't open until later in the day for some dumb reason.

[@SquidandCatAdventures]

I love the idea of a barista suddenly see James walk in, recognize him, fan boy a bit, and then realize that they have to make him a cup of coffee. If they are good and confident, it would probably be a thrill, but I could see it being a bit nerve-wracking too, lol. I bet most would love to get some feedback from him. Like a free masterclass.

[@jwbowen]

Or he orders a cup of tea

[@amielterence]

I literally just imagined this scenario😅

[@gadaboutwalks]

A: Look over there! James Hoffmann is making his second visit to our cafe. B: Cool. What did he order? A: Er, soft drink and a slice of cake. B: **sobs**

[@vl507]

😂

[@onewhowalkedaway]

I mean at least in this scenario you have created an inviting environment that is worth being in without the coffee. And let's face it, the cake is also not always worth ordering

[@chillenld]

I would love a series that's basically Kitchen Nightmares for cafés, except it's James Hoffman being wonderfully pleasant, that just starts every episode with James walking into a café and pulling out a refractometer.

[@monkeytechx]

I would watch that show

[@sourcererseven3858]

Oh my gods, YES!

[@macaddct1984]

Ratings range from “A delightful cup of coffee” to “Not quite my preference, but thank you”

[@bluesky7838]

Not only would I watch that show, but I would go to those shops after James had turned them around.

[@punkguy86]

Woah, someone REALLY needs to bring this idea to the right person's attention! Amazing!

[@giodc8599]

I cannot tell you how many times i had the "extra extra hottttt" request from someone and literally scorched the portafilter before brewing, heated the cup to my best and let the milk scream in agony only to witness the person go ahed and just sip on the coffee like it was a glass of water. I am glad you like your molten lava, sir.

[@JoeTrickey]

I did this once and it STILL wasn't hot enough, so I stuck a thermometer in there and blasted it to 200 C. Perfect.

[@genericgorilla]

That's so incredibly metal

[@forestofthoughtsandstories2809]

The lune “ the milk scream in agony” sounds like some heavy metal band

[@cantspellrestaraunt]

I had to make one of these today. "Large latte please. Weak. Single shot. And make the milk as hot as you possibly can". Okay miss, but why tho? 😔 Who hurt you?

[@matthewmehrpour9672]

I call these kinda costumers "Dragon" cuz they have a high threshold for Hot beverages. There is no actual help for them. Just smile and cry inside

[@cocoloco6825]

Barista here. I feel like I speak for most of us when I say that if we ever pull you a bad shot please tell us! We obviously can’t taste the exact shot before we serve it and it helps us to dial in the next shot better if you let us know why it wasn’t enjoyable!

[@cukidio]

I recently went my favorite coffee shop and was served a poor espresso without the crema. I spoke to the server and said, “I have had your coffee here for many years and today it is not the usual good coffee. I know that you can do much better.” Without hesitation she removed the coffee and had it remade and returned with an excellent espresso. That is why I will always return to this place.

[@Vii_DT]

That moment James brings out a VST refractometer to objectively argue that a cup of coffee is bad had me laughing to death.

[@Lollllllz]

Seems like a scene out of a coffee equivalent of kitchen nightmares lmao

[@riskyb250]

Doing this in real life would be peak humor

[@danielburkow5709]

RIP

[@danielseelye6005]

Baristas would shit their pants when seeing that coif.

[@lucaspacheco1081]

@@Lollllllz I really wanna see that show happening

[@xc43t]

A small advice. There is a better table flipping technique. The sitting down version James shown here is for beginners. For the upgraded effectiveness you need to stand up while at the same time turn the table over. You get more power from your legs and core and as a bonus it will be more cinematic and better looking in slow-mo. Sitting down version look a bit lazy in my opinion.

[@thickandthinking]

😁

[@davidoickle1778]

I think this is the polite, British, flipping technique, you know, the gentleman's version.

[@Rhynome]

@@davidoickle1778 or a flip with extra D I S D A I N

[@thickandthinking]

@@davidoickle1778 yeah, the man is a bit posh, indeed.

[@xc43t]

@@davidoickle1778 You may be right. It's either the politeness or it may be that James with all his hulkish might tried to protect the crew from unnecessary harm. He would have shot the table through the roof if he used more power.

[@beefcakesensei]

In a Paris coffee shop, I ordered a cold brew and they didn't tell me prior that it was an experiment. They did a strange fermentation process that made it taste like it was apple cider vinegar and coffee had a forbidden love child. I asked the barista what it was and she was very nice and we geeked out about coffee. I still did not like it, but it was cool to have a conversation about the process. They also provided me with an alternative coffee beverage that was very nice.

[@zakariazbitou2304]

Now this is making me curious to try their offerings. Do you by chance still remember the name of the coffee shop ?

[@florindalucero3236]

What was the place, I''d love to try that!

[@beefcakesensei]

@@zakariazbitou2304 I believe it is called KB Cafèshop. It was this last July when they had it, so I am unsure if it is still served. They were very nice and accommodating, so I think it would be worth checking out still. They might have some new experimentation. If they do have it and you try it, you should let me know what you think.

[@beefcakesensei]

@@florindalucero3236 I believe KB Cafèshop

[@David-ry6mh]

@@beefcakesensei I'm sure it was KB and it was either the pink or red bourbon from Colombia. Don't remember the name of the Finca. I tried it myself. I found it good. Also tried the other variety in filter and it was good. It was a experiment from the farmer itself. They're trying anaerobic processes. It gives this strong ferment taste, I found it similar to grapes when start the fermentation to do the wine.

[@melindasalmon7477]

We need a cafe rescue series with James sorting out bad cafes.

[@MrRotesy]

SHUT IT DOWN, YOUR FILTERS ARE SHIT AND YOUR SCONES ARE DRY. I WONT LET ONE PERSON BE ENDANGERED BY THIS SUBPAR BEAN WATER.

[@alinaqirizvi1441]

That would be epic

[@TomPhotoix]

Trouble is he is too nice.. no one but die hard coffee geeks would watch it. Think about Gordon Ramsey and his shows.. most people who watch have no real interest in food, they just wanna see him go off on people.

[@anniesama5729]

I'd pay to watch James make faces while drinking bad coffee all over the country

[@scott8919]

The problem is that once TV got a hold of it they would add drama and drag it out and make James become a person he isn't. It would be one more reality TV show I would skip because directors and producers would ruin it like they do every other reality show.

[@Leotheleprachaun]

There is a newer café in my city that only had one experienced barista (the owner) and only had 2 different kinds of beans. The owner used to come around and asked for any kind of feedback. Most people blew smoke up their butt because "new place, don't dampen their spirits". But when I went and they asked me for feedback I asked what kind of beans/what regions they were from, what darkness of roast, the grind settings used, the temperature, ect. The owner was so impressed that somebody finally started giving real feedback that she hired me after a 45 minute conversation. We now are partnered with a couple different eco-friendly and fair trade farms for our bean suppliers and are one of the city's most visited shoppes. Even the other café owners swing by when they close as we stay open until midnight and they close at 8pm. It's great having given feedback and seeing and being part of the changes to have the café stay open longer.

[@JuddJadulan]

Someone needs to do a 24 hr loop of James flipping coffee and the table.

[@MorgyBlack]

Hames Joffman will get on it soon enough

[@UnwittingSweater]

We want all the takes!

[@Surestick88]

Set to non-stop Skrillex.

[@hasanzaidi5258]

Me totally 😂

[@MisfitsFiendClub138]

Reminded me of the movie Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels

[@Neilisthevideoking]

The only time I absolutely had to say something was when I was in London excited for good big city coffee. I went to camden coffee co in the market. The barista didn't tamp the puck and it ran in

[@KCJ1999]

The correct procedure for any Scot when visiting London

[@leatherDarkhorse]

Happen to me once not london but my local shop, i saw the barista didnt stamp the puck, and she even scrap the grind that over the portafilter level. And she only served 1/2 of espresso, and serve the other half of the espresso TO another customer when they walk in. THE WORST CHEAPSKATE SHOP I EVER BEEN.

[@Neilisthevideoking]

@@leatherDarkhorse yeah that sounds like one of the irredeemable cafes hoffman talks about.

[@stephykaka3571]

😂

[@a.m.armstrong8354]

Camden is a place where ppl pay a lot of money for not very much. There's a good roasting place there though!

[@LuminatX]

As a retail manager, James is pretty spot on with this. If you're a good human being and choose your approach wisely you're far more likely to get the outcome you want from the interaction.

[@TamarLitvot]

I would add to what you and James said - tell the shop when it’s good! In my new community, there are 4 coffee shops within 3/4 mile of my house, one of the main reasons we moved here, and they all make fairly decent lattes. But one is better than the others. I told the better one that they have the best latte in our town and they loved it. Clearly I made them happy. I have not complained to the others because they do a perfectly respectable job and have other charms to recommend them. Needless to say, I love coffee shops!

[@tiniphuong]

This is more than just coffee advice, it‘s actually advice for life. „What you want is good coffee. You have to understand, is it even available where I am?“ Applies to so many things in life … work place, relationships … etc

[@CPUtech101]

I was once served a cup or coffee whose color and smell were a bit off. I mentioned it to the cashier before even tasting it, and they quickly realized that the new girl had forgotten to remove the cleaning agent from the coffee machine. Needless to say, they were pretty glad I said something before anyone got to drink from that batch.

[@AlexDahl]

Whenever I receive a bad cup of coffee, I too am struck by the sudden impulse to make the most disgusted face ever and heedlessly of others, fling the entire table, including the coffee and carafe into the air. This is the proper way to show one's dissatisfaction, and has been practiced since the Victorian era. There is no need to continue watching the video past this point.

[@paradise_valley]

Or you could silently, but also very assertively/aggressively and abruptly leave with no further explanation and some pocket change in place of what you think the coffee is worth. Be generous, but very clear that you will not be a returning customer!

[@xander1052]

@@paradise_valley that only works if the cafe charges after serving, which is not something I have ever experienced in a Cafe, only in restaurants.

[@solidandsoiled]

When you practice this enough, space and time would warp into a slow-mo that accentuates ur expressions of dissatisfaction as well. That's when you know you have reached the peak of coffee nerding

[@chris9650]

As an ex barista James point about the milk drinks going cold is so on point. If someone was honest about loosing track of time with their friend I always joked about I do same and replaced it for them. If they bought if 40 minutes ago were rude, and tried to make it they bought it 2 minutes ago despite the receipt showing otherwise we refused to replace it. Costs nothing to show some manners.

[@sebas9504]

Just imagine James Hoffman walking into your local coffee shop, ordering a drink, and then pulling out the TDS meter & thermometer at the table

[@UnwittingSweater]

He has said that he has walked into a coffee shop and the barister refused to serve him because he is him 😂

[@fdeyso]

It would be nothing compared to the bunch of idiots who a barista have to deal with everyday.

[@dodaexploda]

It would be either heaven or hell. I'd be jazzed as shit.

[@LIL-MAN_theOG]

Most shop workers aren't even gonna know what those are..unless they goto a trade show or contest

[@florindalucero3236]

I live in Seattle, I don't think anybody would bat an eye.

[@davidhampson4130]

I actually got a job somewhere that was scenario 3. They used poor quality dark roast beans, had a cheap grinder and a cheap machine. I tried my best to get the coffee tasting decent but had to negotiate with the owner over a long period of time to make any changes. Eventually we sourced beans from a local roaster and the quality immediately improved, still much more room and had to beg and plead to get a new grinder (I argued from a efficiency/workflow standpoint) Now I am generally very happy with the coffee we serve and just hope one day it will be financially viable to upgrade the machine. To summarise I guess give places a chance to change; might not happen overnight but it can and does happen.

[@phillipshilov323]

Oof I feel this. I started working at this place because I loved their food and when I talked with the owners I liked their attitude towards service. Their coffee was terrible, despite having a quality grinder and a beautiful LaMarzocco machine. Turns out the owner, just out of ignorance, was ordering a years worth of a very mediocre French roast at a time, and had never cleaned the espresso machine or grinder. None of the staff knew how to steam milk either, and their idea of an americano was essentially to just extract until the mug is full. I'm still discovering issues here and there, but steadily our product is improving. It really is difficult to get any change to happen though.

[@mart3058]

​@@phillipshilov323 it always confuses me when restaurants have expensive machines but don't utilise them!

[@Plenoge]

Is it fair then to suggest that the barista already knows the state of their shop's coffee? As in, don't need to bring it up because the barista already knows and either can't do anything about it, or is actively working on it?

[@davidhampson4130]

@Jason Storer maybe depends on what the fault is; if it’s a taste issue like maybe the shots just a little off but you know they’re using good beans then I’d maybe raise it with the manager, then depending how they take it maybe give it one more chance. If they’re audibly destroying the milk and nobody seems to be rectifying it then I’d just find somewhere else.

[@greyw0lv]

I worked in a kitchen a while back that served terrible coffee in one of those industrial drip machines. It was awful but the owner refused to do anything due to the chicken and egg of nobody buying the coffee because it was so terrible.

[@sturmykins]

I love these guidelines! It reminds me of the time a barista made me a pour over on a busy day of a new roast I wanted to try. I did NOT enjoy it, but it was because the actual coffee was not to my taste. They did their job great, and I just never ordered that kind again! On the other hand, I'm lactose intolerant, so I ALWAYS say something if I happen to notice the barista accidentally use dairy milk. It's always a genuine mistake, and I hate pointing it out, but it renders the beverage undrinkable to me, and is therefore worth asking for them to remake it.

[@m-zed]

“The function of a coffeeshop is to make you a little bit happier.” - James Hoffmann

[@keithpp1]

And to serve great coffee.

[@adelyaya]

@@keithpp1 by serving a good coffee

[@M4tthij5]

That opening was so unexpected yet magnificent, top-notch editing! Love this, your channel keeps getting better and better and helps me a lot, thanks James!

[@johndeich7307]

James needs to flip more tables

[@jakubruzicka6310]

And the dnb track! So fitting:)

[@723snoopy]

I’m so sad about the broken coffee cups 😢

[@kilo-papa]

​@@jakubruzicka6310 Junglist Tool by Jailed Jamie 😄

[@CarletonTorpin]

“Be a good human.” Quality advice.

[@obrecht72]

Agreed. Sat back to listen to James talk about coffee and suddenly I'm in a masters class on how to interact with the Cafe staff in case of a bad pour. Really good advice to use in many scenarios.

[@Shrifbun]

Really a guiding principle.

[@wutangclan2051]

Be a good coffee maker. Especially if you're being paid to do it. Be professional at your job. Be a good human too.

[@Covenant-R]

@@obrecht72 Goes for everything really, I think the world would be a better place if everyone had to work a few months behind the counter and face the public, be it a coffee shop, clothing store, or register at a grocery store or what not. During school years I worked extra in a comp shop, after that I usually make a point of being extra nice to people behind the counter, even more so then before, because of often it can be a really shitty and ungrateful job.

[@jimfabry]

It's validating (if a bummer) to hear you say there's nothing that can be done for the shops that simply don't know or care how to make good coffee. I run into that situation every now and then, and when I do I try to imagine how I could make it better. And every time, I end up at "I would have to buy this coffee shop."

[@Bardghost_Isu]

Yeah, my thoughts as he was brining it up were pretty much, short of going in there for a weekend / getting a job there to go through the steps and try to troubleshoot, its just not going to happen. And as much as I like coffee, it isn't worth it to spend all that time in there trying to fix it when you have no continuing control over it so it'll probably go back to being bad within a month or two.

[@rdu239]

Yeah because if its a supplier-distributor issue then that is far beyond your control because if the owner has a penchant for low priced items and supplies then their end product will never improve, and I am not saying low priced item is an automatic low quality

[@psyaviah]

in that case: talk with your money/not being there/etc... I just don't want to ruin my energy on that. I'll find another place. I also wouldn't even write a bad review (only if staff were rude multiple times for example not just once)

[@addicted2caffeine]

yes! I worked in a starbucks and took pride in perfection. not so much the art work ( I sucked at this ) but the perfect drink was key. and whenever I got a positive feedback it really made it worth the energy into making 1000s of cups a day all perfect. because it can be exhausting and frustrating when the queue never ends.

[@HomeDistiller]

"Be a good human" now that's a life motto more people need to adopt

[@vl507]

I think it’s great but I would settle for “Don’t be a bad human”

[@rubensoeteman]

James being the lawful good character he is

[@ChepFrosty]

wasn’t this supposed to be a bare minimum requirement

[@sourcererseven3858]

I like Matt Gray's version: "Don't be a knob"

[@jordanscism1841]

As someone who was a barista for years, thank you so much for this! I had a customer who wanted their drink at 88°C, which ruined the milk, but would sit for 10 minutes not drinking it and come back complaining to us that it was too cold and have us remake it repeatedly. I want to make you happy but, that's simply unreasonable.

[@florindalucero3236]

that person should have had their picture in the window, "barred, for acts against coffee"

[@alexpool4091]

Why didn't you just ban him ?

[@billeterk]

Serve it in a thermos flask?

[@Shrifbun]

I have had so many customers over the years do the same exact thing. And while it would be so SOOO nice to ban customers like these, MOST baristas are not in the position to make rules or set those boundaries. After 5 years of cafe work, this year is my first time working in a shop where I can ban people if need be, and I've been manager at another shop where the owners were so concerned with company image that they let customers absolutely steamroll us with demands.

[@wutangclan2051]

Make the coffee worst and worst each time for a coffee pest. Eventually they won't come back, all by themselves.

[@baronasmedyje]

so now we need a reality TV show called "Extreme Cafe Makeover" which helps to improve a cafe's coffee making process

[@yosefitche]

OMG.

[@thickandthinking]

Yes.

[@sonnyrynsaard3567]

Kitchen nightmare style but James goes around cafes and samples every coffee and has a vst and shouts at them saying every brew is under extracted

[@third_mate]

This is amazing!! That would be so bingeable, and there are so many bad cafés around!

[@DaleNicholls]

This needs to be a thing!

[@deepthreadsonly]

Scenario #4: the cafe is training someone new and they don’t quite know what they’re doing yet. Happens to me fairly often as third wave shops struggle to avoid turnover.

[@daredaemon8878]

That's usually a variant of Scenario #1 though, isn't it?

[@bagofnails6692]

God, yeah. I have had that happen quite a few times.

[@MathieuDeVinois]

As a student I have been a waiter in a café. And, not as in other cafés, I actually had to study the different types of coffee. I wouldn’t say what we served was top quality barista style. It’s a café and people have no passion to wait for their drink. But we took care to serve a decent coffee. So far that we could trink coffee ourself for free to taste what comes out of the machine on a regular basis. So, it happened that one customer complaint about her coffee. I tasted directly out of her cup. (Yes- before covid) and indeed. It’s been disgusting. So, long story short. The Coffee in the grinder was bad. I had to throw the whole batch away, clean it and everything else and all was fine with a fresh bag of beans. Interesting was that the customers coffee was not the first from that batch. And I had my last coffee about an hour before. So chances are I served terrible coffee for about an hour and nobody complaint.

[@LookingForAnotherPlanet]

Indeed it takes energy to complain. Love your story.

[@CordeliaRavenwood]

Every once in awhile Tim Hortons … I swear, forgets to take the old coffee out and put the new coffee in before turning the machine on. I mean I’ve done it at home too. Human brains are just not reliable. The thing is by the time you notice you’re probably 5 minutes away (because their coffee is very hot). And there’s no way you’re going back.

[@KhGoosey]

My most common issue is actually that the milk is cooked or WAY too frothed. Ask for a flat white and get a drink with a giant milk bubbles instead of microfoam. At that point I just assume they don't know what a flat white is and don't know how to steam milk, and I just got to a different shop next time. Some times I'm at a shop I like but they're super busy so the drink is a little off, I try to just let that one slide, especially if they're still busy I'm not gonna interrupt them to complain.

[@jamesramsey2400]

Messing up milk texture on a flat white is an easy mistake tbh, it's a matter of a second almost and when your busy messing it up is painful

[@KhGoosey]

@@jamesramsey2400 I'm not talking a little too much foam bringing it to a capp or something. I've talking about places that give you giant 1cm bubbles in the milk.

[@ManeManChannel]

@@KhGoosey For real, after I got my own espresso machine and started making my own flat whites it was a glass shattering moment going to chains. First time going back to a Costa and the flat white I was given was basically half stiff foam. Didn't complain though as when you go somewhere like that you kinda of accept you're getting overheated caffinated milk.

[@jamesramsey2400]

@@KhGoosey Oof

[@anthonypanecasio]

Biggest test for me whenever I go to a new shop and try to order a flat white is if they ask me "what size" or "want any sugar in that" I usually change my order to an americano at that point

[@floydffrogfloydffrog7453]

Two stories: There's a popular coffee shop in town that 'specializes' in pour over coffee. They have a bank of pour over rigs set up and you select the beans and the size and after a few minutes your coffee is brought out to you. Worst. Coffee. Ever. I only go because once a year I need to meet someone and they choose this place due to it being close to their office. How it stays in business is beyond me especially since they don't offer any other styles of coffee BUT it's always busy so clearly the point about differing coffee tastes is valid and important. Or people just don't care, which frankly I sometimes think is more often the case than not. Last summer we were camping near a small prairie town that had a specialty coffee shop. When we were in the town for supplies or whatever I'd stop and have a latte and I was very pleased that their product was superior. But it was always the same barista who I got the impression was also the owner. On the day we were leaving we swung through the town for a final coffee. That day we hit the lunch crowd and my baristas this time was a kid no more than 12 years old. "Oh Oh" I thought, here's comes a disaster. But the latte was even better than usual. Which just goes to show. As a final note the shot of James throwing a Rage Quit over his disappointing coffee made my freakin' day!!!

[@clararamazaragoza863]

was this in The Netherlands?

[@piarateking8094]

quality of the coffee i drank didnt really bother me until i moved to an area where the cafes serve consistently good coffee and found that i didnt like the coffee in most cafes especially chains where before i didnt notice

[@air9music]

The 12 year old getting coached by James Hoffman to become the greatest barista of all time might be an interesting movie.

[@jackMcRyder]

F I L T z. Shop . I . Assume.

[@Erik-cq4vc]

The point about the bad tasting pour over instantly made me think about how often I notice people adding milk and sugar to their drinks. I even notice this at specialty coffee shops, not that there's anything wrong with that drink your coffee how you like. But that addition probably masks a lot of the "bad taste". I drink black coffee 99% of the time, but there's definitely times where I just need a coffee and full well know it'll be bad tasting and I have to mask those flavours with sugar and milk, which turns a bad drink into a slightly less bad drink.

[@kivzzzz]

The beginning of the video was hilarious! I've been in a situation where the milk was scorching hot and I had to wait about 20 minutes until I could drink the coffee. Needless to say, the taste was awful and I couldn't finish my cup. Before I went out, I spoke with the barista quietly so the other customers don't hear my complaint. Apparently, the milk steaming is automatic and the calibration was off (Starbucks, what can I say). He was really nice about it and even suggested making me a new cup to go, but I declined. Overall I'm glad we didn't ruin each other's day.

[@sjain8111]

was scalded by coffee in a small café - never returned

[@Adam-qs5ir]

They've automated a ton of the process there. I used to work at one in the early 90s and we had to know how to properly grind, how to properly steam pour everything. Doesn't seem like that's a thing at Starbucks anymore

[@noahatlas5240]

Damn, sometimes navigating life as a person is about not ruining each other's days!

[@HavokTheorem]

I asked for espresso con panna (on a whim) at a local chain cafe and the barista wasn't coy about admitting that he didn't remember exactly what the drink was, but he basically just asked me to describe it. That could have been awkward if he'd tried to save face, but I'm glad it wasn't.

[@Bukalov1]

The third scenario your describing is exactly the problem in my town. There are a few Starbucks shops and one independently own coffee shop that is very good at marketing itself as if it is specialty coffee, but it is not at all. It's a great environment to hangout and get some work done and is conveniently located, but the coffee is just bad. They roast their own beans and their baristas have no idea what they're doing. Sometimes I just want to open up my own shop in town that serves good coffee. Thank you for this video James 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@alexandra4334]

Sad to say most coffee shops have poor espresso, even with good coffee beans, their commercial grinder and machine. They obviously are not dialing in and cleaning their equipment. Problem is most people get their drinks with sugar and flavor, dont notice, and also dont know good coffee, and dont complain. The shop on the other hand is crazy successful day after day, with serving bad espresso. Why would they change?

[@williecourtney3848]

cause for most visitors the roasted smell hot/warm liquid is a coffee, and for only few number of people (from cafe visitors) coffee is kind of procedure, ritual which is giving the taste, aroma, aftertaste feelings and caffeine action. Somebody paying attention how it's performed, somebody not..

[@radiohirsch]

The really frustrating exerience are coffee shops that initially serve excellent espresso but after a while just stop caring because 95% of the customers wont notice 😒

[@OutOfNamesToChoose]

It's usually a bitter and over-extracted dark roast, which is a shame considering the equipment used. I'm not a fan of milk drinks, so I'm usually left secretly disappointed, but caffeinated at least. Good beans and well trained staff go a long way to making good coffee, but I understand that it may not necessarily make a good business.

[@DovidM]

@@OutOfNamesToChoose I see milk drinks as introducing another factor that they could screw up. As a result, I order a milk drink in a shop that I know to be good at it.

[@OutOfNamesToChoose]

​@@DovidM In my opinion, milk drinks are easier to make acceptable, but harder to perfect. I agree regarding trusting better cafes to consistently make good milk drinks

[@wompus_king]

Last week at my local coffee shop, I genuinely said the wrong words and received exactly what I ordered. And it was perfectly made, I’m sure! But it was my WIFE’S order. I straight asked if I ordered the wrong thing, they said yes, and then I ordered appropriately and apologized for causing such an inconvenience. When I went to pay for the extra beverage, they just told me not to worry about it. I was shocked by their generosity. So. Yeah. Being a decent human person pays off.

[@gasdive]

I switched to my wife's preferred coffee as though I didn't like it as much, I didn't mind it either. The payoff was a simplified order that I couldn't mess up and no confusion over which identical appearance coffee was which when they arrived at the table. (she's lactose intolerant)

[@scod3908]

@@gasdive I recently tried lactose free milk as we had it on hand for a guest. I found it to have the sweet banana/egg flavour somewhat reminiscent of over-heated milk I was hoping it would aid in digestion as I find I'm becoming less tolerant to morning milk drinks with age, and yet there was no apparent digestive benefit. If anything the "morning routine" was hastened 🙃

[@drewloewen6079]

I always got the "this latte isn't hot" feedback. Even after my barista days making lattes with my home machine! Usually a bit of education about milk temps and burning clears it up. I've only met a few people who'd take burnt milk that stays hot longer over well-steamed milk that is sweet to the taste with good texture, even if it cools down.

[@DasGanon]

This goes into the thing that Technology Connections said on his Percolator video which was basically "What people who like these want is very hot, and they assume that hot=good"

[@soulfuzz368]

I’m one of them! I love the taste when milk just barely starts to burn, absolutely perfect that way. Maillard reaction ftw

[@billeterk]

Doesn’t the Maillard reaction start at around 150°C? I think sweet milk is more likely lactose breaking down into simpler sugars

[@leonawroth2516]

I thank James for learning that cold coffee that tastes bad is just bad coffee. And if you have actually good coffee (to your taste) and brew it nicely, it will taste as good cold. My thesis is that most people don't actually like the taste of most coffees they drink and that's why they want it burning hot. So that their taste buds just capitulate and say "yeah it's probably coffee, drink it!"

[@xander1052]

@@leonawroth2516 I mean, I'm in the camp that when I order an Espresso from a cafe I know makes good coffee, I actually prefer it when it's cooled down a bit from the serving temp they provide it in, as I find it to be sweeter and more enjoyable at ~50-60 C than when it's fresh to me at ~70-80 C, though I can definitely agree that if the coffee is not good, It is definitely nicer to have when the bitterness is covered up somewhat by the extra heat!

[@ciaradowling9768]

I remember Graham at 3fe being interviewed years ago about how Irish people in particular like really hot drinks. When asked for extra hot he warms the cup *and the handle*. Touching the hot handle fools your brain that it’s hotter than it actually is but the coffee still tastes good 😄

[@taistealai5523]

oh yea as someone who's lived in that country my entire life I have heard people say they want their latte or cappuccino extra hot a lot of times

[@ForumCat]

Putting warm coffee into a thick ceramic cold cup is often why the coffee is cold in no time. Warming the cup well is important.

[@joelhollingsworth2374]

One of my neighborhood roasters decided to do a few dark roasts to meet popular demand even though they don't fit her idea of good coffee, and my wife and I had a good discussion with her about how we sort of feel sad for people who are following the trend and might enjoy coffee better if they tried something less burnt. Hopefully it was validating for her to hear "you did well at making this what it was supposed to be, but I still like your other work better."

[@nroman1977]

I had an Italian friend who granted is an extreme extrovert. On multiple occasions had bad Italian food or bad pizza at small town restaurants or bars and had gone into their kitchens to show them how to make food or pizza. As awkward as it was he really thought he was coming from the right place. He now has dishes on the menu named after him at over a dozen places 😂

[@EvenTheDogAgrees]

LOL, that's hilarious!

[@aussiehardwood6196]

That would ONLY fky at a place where even the staff hate the food. Any self respecting kitchen and head chef would not only be too busy to entertain idiots in the kitchen but it would be VERY degrading to be schooled bu a member of the public. But 8+/10 restaurants sell dingy food so i guess a can at least believe your story.

[@guguilviz]

We are Latinos, we live for the awkwardness

[@iainstewart2102]

the tool pizza ?

[@Dashitishere22]

@@guguilviz Italian people aren't latinos though? Edit: I don't know if the original comment meant to say Latins instead of Latinos. At this time Latino means: a native or inhabitant of Latin America OR a person of Latin American origin living in the US. If you disagree with that definition please reach out to Merriam-Webster and not me.

[@ekillpack]

I'm a regular at a coffee shop in my city and know the owner pretty well. The owner themselves can obviously pull a great shot and there are 2 other baristas there who I trust to pull my shot. If I don't see any of those 3 I don't make a big fuss about it, I order a lovely chai or a beautifully shaken arnold palmer. Coffee shops have such great specialty drinks too that it's so worth it to appreciate a coffee shop for it's teas and such as well! So glad that that was our take for scenario 3, I love that positivity and hope more people take that mindset to every type of outing regarding a new place.

[@pablojabuti]

Okay, the mad table flipping thing at the begining was hilarious and should be played in a loop several times, BUT the refractometer in the middle of the coffee shop just got me laughing WAAAY more than i should.

[@lukasplag5628]

Thank you Mr. Hoffmann, I found myself so often in this situation - as I’m always traveling around quite a bit, it’s nice to hear your view on this. I’m always a cappuccino guy, and I’ve got to say that usually the problem comes with the milk. Sometimes I’m even a bit jealous of the espresso drinkers: in Germany, where I live, unfortunately in many places the standard is overheated milk. It doesn’t bound with the espresso at all, sits on top, tastes burnt, and the weird thing is: on average the Germans (particularly in bakeries) they to have indeed fancy machines, but just don’t know how to do milk. Ironically in other countries, where the machines are much older on average (eg israel - one of my favorite coffee countries) you’re much more likely to have a well done cappuccino, just because they know how! Usually I ask beforehand if the maybe could do the milk a little “colder”, most of the time that works out and the cup isn’t burnt (if I can tell it’s the sort of coffee shop that would burn their milk).. Thanks for the great content!

[@JC5481]

Also from Germany but working in the gastronomy(not a barista, but a bartender) and I have to say that this is partially a problem, because we have so many students and other mini jobbers that just dont care. And those are the people that stand behind the counter most of the time, because number one almost no one wants to work in gastronomy nowadays in Germany and number two full time jobs in gastronomy simply isnt worth it anymore for more than enough smaller buisnisses due to higher side costs(the mini jobbers are 450 and that is basically it, for full time workers you have to pay more stuff on the side). This is partially because we Germans dont value our gastronomy anymore and basically give not enough tip which leads to less people being hired, the ones that do work are often overworked and the list of problems goes on and on. So yeah there are still good gastronomys in Germany, but you have to start looking for them to find it And the milk is too hot problem? I cant speak for other Cafes how they do it but we only have a full automated mashine and yes I asked severel times if we could have an espresso mashine but we simply dont sell enough coffe to make it worth while therefore no fine adjustments are really doable, at least where I work

[@DelTheTeaGeek]

Loved the way you approached this subject ! And I love that these tips also apply to any specialty store, like a tea house. I work in tea and customers will sometimes complain about the infusion, but it's often their idea of what the tea is supposed to drink that is wrong, and not the brew itself (not to say that I never mess up a tea, but I would love for people to have this much self-reflection before complaining... and then getting only the constructive feedback.) Thanks helping us be better customers !

[@stevehazeltine6487]

Ran a coffee shop up until recently- and that completely changed my perspective on the idea of a customer complaining, as well as my own practice of complaining. I came to the realization that I desperately wanted the opportunity for a second chance with a customer, if they didn’t like their drink. If it’s a first time customer who comes in and gets a drink they don’t like (whether it’s a mistake, or just not to their tastes), they’ll come to the conclusion that this just isn’t a good shop, and that’s there’s nothing here that they’ll like. Making them something else gives us a chance to change their mind.

[@be5952]

Oh my goodness. *You* are the type of person who _should_ be working with the public! (Which you are, obviously.) Now, if you could just magically begin working at every business I ever patronise, I would sincerely appreciate it. Thanks ;-)

[@geuros]

I didn't get the balls yet to start my coffee shop and currently my career is going different path. But I was thinking about this - it's probably good idea to be a bit upfront in the communication and maybe ask about the customer's preferences. I know quite a few coffee shops that have at least 2 espresso grinders with different coffees, one with specialty for geeks that like the "red pill" and one with traditional Italian darker blend which is honestly imho a good baseline for everyone (oh and naked triple shots out of darker roast are just oil thicc and wonderful).

[@catherinem254]

I never thought about it this way. Thank you for giving me a reason to give shops a second chance.

[@PhaythGaming]

I thought this was common sense. I suppose what is common is only common to you.

[@Dave435l]

Totally agree with the idea of expectation management. I've saved many coffee shop experiences by asking myself when walking in, is this a latte shop or an espresso shop?

[@cade5400]

"latte shop or an espresso shop" is a really helpful dichotomy that I've noticed but not had words for. Great point!

[@pauldaulby260]

The best espresso I’ve ever had was from a place called flat white

[@videoguy3110]

If it's a bad shop do you get an espresso or a latte? There was a time I only ordered an espresso from the best places and milk drinks elsewhere but over the years this habit has flipped. I'd now rather drink a poorly made espresso than a poorly made frothy low quality/re steamed slightly sour latte.

[@cade5400]

@@videoguy3110 If I think it’s a “latte shop” I go for a drip coffee 😂 I’ve had mixed results with that, many charcoal roasts

[@Beth-cd6nb]

@@pauldaulby260 this isn’t in Durham, UK by any chance?!

[@adamconkey2771]

A scenario I run into often at a local shop that has a lot of employee turnover is the barista is simply a new employee and struggles to make things correctly. Typically you give them a week and they're making drinks as good as anyone else there. Probably being mindful that the whole crew at a shop doesn't have the same level of experience is a good tip, particularly since a new employee might feel the worst when a customer tells them they messed something up.

[@werelemur1138]

My literal first day as a barista, guy wants a cappuccino, I say tell him it's my first day and that if I get it wrong I'll remake it and he takes one sip and says "If I'd wanted a latte, I would have ordered a latte." I offered to make him another one and he said "what's the point" and then stared at me the whole time he drank it. By this time I'd worked enough retail not to take it personally.

[@daniel635biturbo]

Yes scenario no 4 is common ! Especially in small places where most people order drip coffee. I ordered a Cappuccino in a small place a couple of years ago, and the young girl struggled a lot. Two shots, and three milk steams later she gave me my cup. I just smiled and thanked her so much, she did try her best, that is all anyone can ever ask for.

[@be5952]

@@werelemur1138 ~ Really? The customer said that? Yikes. I'm not surprised by his rudeness (or his stupidity)---like, you just told him you're new & would try again, possibly with help from a more experienced person if you still couldn't quite get it. But what I wonder is *how he reacts to the truly atrocious non-service* I often get in various places from people who don't give a care? Does he come back with an automatic weapon, or what?

[@lunavixen015]

@@be5952 we get those kinds of assholes in all the time at my workplace, we often have people training on the coffee machine so things do go occasionally wrong, but assholes like that set back the training and progress of the new baristas (particularly the younger ones) because they lose confidence and start feeling like all their coffees are bad, which then causes more mistakes. Being kind about mistakes changes the ENTIRE game.

[@Humungojerry]

yeah in that scenario the thoughtful “the coffee is normally great here” turns into a dig!

[@SarahDawnsDesigns]

Thank you for the reminder that no matter what, we need to be good humans. That's really the important thing no matter what. I've got an indie roastery that I adore (they do a lot of fair trade/direct trade stuff, which makes me super happy) They also have a cafe, very near me, for people to come in and try their coffees, which is brilliant, and a lot of people also leave with bags of beans! But, their cafe side serves a rotating selection of their coffees (which is neat, as I get to try new coffees from them without having to buy an entire bag of beans that I may, or may not, like!) But, I don't like espresso, or most dark roast coffee blends. So, when I'm there, unless they're serving one of the lighter roasts that I like as a filter coffee; yep, I get a tea and sometimes a biscuit instead (as they also have an amazing Earl Grey blend!) But, I'm happy to buy the beans that I do like from them, too! So, many times, I've gone in for a bag of beans and then sat and lingered over my tea. It's really quite nice.

[@marblegray]

As a barista, I agree completely. Also, if something is like... blatantly terrible please feel free to tell us politely. Stuff happens. I still remember the time I was about two weeks into training and just.. never steamed the milk. The customer came back with one extortionately cold latte and of course, I remade it.

[@bohdanleniuk]

This is actually really funny that you posted this just now. Last week I went to a nice chocolate store that does some specialty coffee too and they have one odd option for a cold brew served that is brewed with cacao. It was a hot day, and my girlfriend and I were feeling adventurous, so we decided to try it. It was nasty. BUT we didn’t complain cuz we knew when we ordered it that it may just not be for us since it definitely was meant to be some unique flavor. I dunno if there is a moral to this story, and I’m starting to question why I typed this all out. For anyone who read this far have a nice day I guess

[@amunak_]

It's still an interesting experience, thanks for sharing! I would've been tempted to try it as well, but seeing this I won't, lol.

[@BenMagargee]

You have a nice day too!

[@dlevi67]

And you!

[@JesseDishner]

That's how most of my KZbin comments end up, I have a strong idea in my mind and a few sentences in I'm like why am I doing this?

[@elbertlim2872]

Don't worry. It's an interesting to hear someone with similar experience related to the video.

[@5ringsmaster]

"Be a good human." Always the best advice. My friend and host for our rehearsals makes really good Turkish coffee. Which he learned to make when studying middle eastern music in Turkey, 30 years ago. But... He serves this wonderful coffee... and then immediately we jump into the music and... an hour later, I drink cold coffee. Fortunately he also serves Calvados. I am thankful for his hospitality. And I say so. And I drink the coffee. Cold. Because it's still caffeine. It's still nicely spiced and good texture... and I honor the gift by enjoying it. And there's always the Calvados...

[@decameter]

As a barista and a lover of good coffee, and I really love to hear if someone's drink wasn't perfect. I also love if someone isn't sure whats wrong or what they really want I always want to help them find exactly what they're looking for (so long as it's in my power)

[@danielpopov8851]

I was at a coffee shop this week (for the first time in a new city) where the Barista was working alone and had seemingly decided that his hack was going to be load the portafilters once. I didn't notice the issue when he made mine, and just thought it didn't taste very good. But we sat down and during the course of our conversation a dozen customers came through. And i slowly realized that not once did the grinder run or the portafilters get cleared. His machine supported four of them. I didn't say anything but I pointed it out to my friend. It didn't seem like a situation where saying anything was going to lead to any fruitful result.

[@lenebeann]

This surely must be illegal

[@Stettafire]

@@lenebeann I think it's normal in a costa

[@QuietPenguinGaming]

The cut scenes in this were 110% worth the extra time you put into them. Gave me a good giggle - thank you!

[@norfolknonsense7578]

James, you are the best. I can not imagine to have someone sort out this delicate subject in a nicer way than you did.

[@annathy]

I can actually see James carrying around his thermometer and testing his coffee at the shops and then... shaking his head. HAHAHA

[@stephykaka3571]

I mean, that's us been an extremist about what we love

[@ShubhamAtkare]

I just love these occasional videos which are not about serious coffee stuff. They're like a recess from all the learning. I make it a point to watch James' videos with a cup of coffee in my hand, and more often than not they're the highlight of my day. Cheers

[@cpy]

I will say once giving feedback worked. I had many 5* reviews for years, then they switched beans and hired new people and it went south quickly. I left a very polite review detailing what I thought was going on with the espresso. The owner replied and chatted with me for more details and ended up sending their staff for training.

[@ziyilauren]

Judging from the kinds of responses here to James’ super relevant perspective on how to approach this sensitive subject when you get a coffee not quite to your liking, I’m glad to see I am in good company. I am fairly young coffee drinker, 6 months now embarking on the homemade brew journey via James’ enlightening videos. While learning about coffees 6months ago, I tried a local shop that specializes in Colombian specialty coffees which was conveniently located on the way home, after dropping my teen at school. A treat to find a barista who listened patiently to my questions. Very few customers at that time in morning. Sadly, I had to limit myself to a decaf since caffeine does strange things. Noting that the bag described it has having mild acidity, I had a quick lesson on what that meant when the barista took the time to brew a normal espresso and an under extracted brew for my comparison and education. Firstly, the mild acidity i discovered is not my “cup of tea”, and secondly realized I could not visit here anymore since they only have one type of bean for decaf. T-T. I did not say anything to the barista except to thank her and that I did notice the differences in the two brews. So I’ll be experimenting on my own bags decaf beans from now and if any1 has recommendations for nice online decaf beans they’ve brewed, I’m happy to try it out. Currently enjoying TJs decaf French Roast w a V60 hand grind w an JX @#22 1:17 ratio.

[@HavokTheorem]

I was in a similar situation in terms of my local supermarkets only carrying one brand of decaf, which is a water-extracted ultra dark roast that tastes like cacao & smoke with zero acidity or fruitiness. I eventually found a semi-local roastery who does a medium-roast decaf. I now order a variety of caf and decaf from them, which ships out on a subscription basis for free. InCaFe, if any New Zealanders are out there. Just to try clarify, are you saying you found acidity pleasant, or disagreeable?

[@jaxmanf]

Interested to see how you think this applies to pourovers. I went into a new cafe that opened near me and ordered a pourover. They pulled out a chemex, and I watched as the coffee stalled and took a good 5-6 minutes to drip. Of course, it was very bitter and a bad cup. I felt too awkward to approach and say “hey you let the pourover stall, maybe put a chopstick under the filter to get airflow?” So I just tossed it and made a new cup later that day at home.

[@guybeauregard]

If I were you, I would let them know---not meanly, but sincerely. Cheers, Guy

[@nickel0eye]

I kinda think pour overs (my favorite brew method) from a coffee shop is a pretty tall order, takes a long time and is subjective. Especially if it's a crowded cafe!

[@nefstead]

@@nickel0eye That may be so, but if a cafe is charging me two or three times the price of a batch brew to make me a pourover, I expect them to do at least as good a job as I could do at home. If they can't, they shouldn't offer it.

[@chemistrykrang8065]

It's super weird that a cafe would offer chemex but not have their chemex kung fu sorted out... they are definitely more faff than a V60, right?

[@error.418]

@@chemistrykrang8065 Yeah, for a pour over at a café a Chemex is a terrible choice by the owner, in my opinion... Personally I see them more as the pretty option for home than the workhorse of the pour over world. The V60 is closer to a work horse, and there are other good options, too. Tbh, the Clever Dripper immersion method would do really well in a café setting providing that personalized pour over quality with far less faff when needing to serve many customers.

[@VuLamDang]

In traditional Vietnamese coffee houses, we put coffee cups inside a bowl filled with hot water, so that the coffee is still warm after a while, and the owners/servers (most of the time the same people) came and refill the hot water bowl from times to times. Granted the cup is then wet, but it's better than cold coffee :P

[@angelamartzen7499]

In most western coffee shops, we heat the cups too but instead of keeping them in hot water we stack them on top of the espresso machine because it gets and stays hot on top. There are vent holes though so we can't cover them up too much so just a certain amount of cups.

[@VuLamDang]

@@angelamartzen7499 i was talking about your drinking cup (with coffee inside) then it is served to the customer inside the hot water bowl

[@vl507]

Pretty cool low tech way to keep the coffee warm (as opposed to containers like the ember).

[@Kalimerakis]

I love vietnamese ingenuity, it's like russian ingenuity but dipped in a bit of warm naivety. Have only been there a few weeks of my life but fell in love instantly.

[@photonpattern]

I appreciated this since I tend to share my opinions on my gustatory experiences more often than some. Owner chefs in particular seem delighted with feedback of any kind. A few weeks ago though I politely suggested to a barista that I thought the coffee was over-extracted and she cheerfully informed me that the owner sets up the machine and clearly they were not present nor inclined to hear my feedback. It was one of those 'you really can't do anything' moments and a learning experience. Thinking about it, this applies to a wider range of people and activities, like co-workers and relatives who more or less just do what they do the way they want to and feedback, no matter how (in)valid, is... negotiably useful.

[@onewhowalkedaway]

That's code for 'I know and I'm sorry but I'm not allowed to fix it'

[@mottrex]

Another great video from James, I recently went to our local independent seaside coffee shop for a coffee, I was excited to tell the barista that we had similar machines and asked their advice. I watched them to see how my many pours might be different to a Real barista and to my delight we were very similar. It was a real shame when ordering that they asked if I wanted milk in my Americano but as we both discussed so many people ask for milk.. The coffee was presented and I went to sit down, It looked a little flat but I was prepared to gloss over that if it tasted OK. Unfortunately it was akin to a wishy washy dish water, maybe I put them off but we had a good rapour, Maybe I should have said something I am not sure. They deal in tourist trade and coach parties so probably don't get any real feed back. I think I will try a double espresso next time just in case it was a bad batch of beans that had been left in the Hopper.

[@gloatinglizard1]

Some years ago, one of the last times I was able to meet my grandpa for coffee, we met at his preferred cafe. He glowed about it. He and his wife got their drinks and sat down, I got mine and went to add some cream and sugar and something tasted off. Not wanting to cause any issues I didn't say anything and finished my cup. Cream had gone bad, had some awful stomach issues after that. Should have said something, it might have saved others from suffering the same.

[@krystalahn8911]

The montage of James just flipping a coffee cup was amusing, but I realised I do prefer him complaining with his calm voice of his than get physical.

[@nachoalk]

Sometimes we need a chaotic James

[@Vixehx]

Don't forget the pouty lips along with the coffee flip. 10/10

[@marisdussartre600]

I got scared

[@simweimin3422]

Ihes trying not to laugh! 😂😂

[@ProBottler]

@@Vixehx i have never laughed this hard watching a James' video

[@mackayla8262]

THANK YOU. This is exactly what I need as a socially awkward international student (coffee nerd). It would have taken me minutes trying to figure out the culturally and socially acceptable way to ask for a replacement drink

[@queens.dee.223]

Thank you for these videos. As someone who owns a basic espresso machine, a tamper, and a conical burr grinder and who can use those devices to make espresso but knows almost no theory, I'm so glad you have a beginner's guide playlist! Time to give that a watch!

[@falkenvir]

Absolutely loved the intro. It's an accurate representation of me in my imagination when I just realized I paid for bad coffee.

[@ann5028]

Paid ($11) for bad coffee 💀 depending on where you are that is.

[@falkenvir]

@@ann5028 Indonesia, and here I pay for normal good coffee for 3USD at most.

[@willinwoods]

Thanks James, very sound advice! Anyone who's ever worked behind a counter can tell you about the absurd level of entitlement and aggression they've had to deal with on a nearly (if not absolutely) daily basis. And way, way too often, as a lowly worker, you may actually care a lot about your customers and what they're getting, and maybe even share some of the very same complaints about the products you are hired to sell... But your opinion is worth nothing to your employer, as long as enough people still are buying. And, as you kind of pointed out, sometimes the clerk gets to take the blame for the customer's own mistakes or lacking knowledge.

[@normandabald6501]

I think it's extremely important to mention the times that your coffee tastes like a chemical or greasy; this might happen if you've gotten unlucky and had a drink pulled just after a machine has been cleaned but not properly flushed out. The cleaning chemicals used can be very dangerous especially if ingested. Not only could you be saving yourself from a bad tasting experience but you could be saving the next person in the queue from a trip to the hospital

[@dfraser]

Spoiled milk is another reason to raise a flag! It happens! 🤢

[@spookyfm4879]

Yes, this. I do agree with James about not bothering when the café just, you know, doesn't do specialty etc. If you like the place, drink something else - I do this with one of these mobile coffee bikes near me that is a really great place to hang, but I always just drink some Chai there. But I once visited an otherwise very nice restaurant with my parents and the coffee there wasn't just the usual "dark roast supermarket pre-ground that's been on the heating plate for an hour but is just about palatable with lots of milk and sugar", no, it was positively *vile*. To me, it tasted like coming from a neglected bean-to-cup machine that had not been cleaned *at all* in at least five years and had all kinds of weird fungus growing in it. Even my non-geek parents found it absolutely disgusting. I really felt the need to mention that to the staff because it wasn't just not my taste, it might have been a health hazard...

[@JesusChrist-xl2cr]

Can confirm, flipping the tables is a viable option.

[@TrevorDyck]

User name checks out. Underrated comment. 💀

[@T1NBANE]

But only if the coffee shop has become a den of robbers.

[@wheeledgoat]

I don't always comment, but had to give you a nid for that pull-out-the-thermometer-and-shake-your-head bit at the end. Brilliant.

[@mohammedteleb598]

Thanks!

[@grumblekin]

In Japanese, flipping the table is called "chabudai tobashi" and it appears that James is well versed in the Kyoto Kabuki Flip!

[@reynata8088]

Lets take a moment to appreciate that intro and James' skits here. I wasn't expecting that, but wouldn't mind if I get more!

[@rolandg8591]

I think this is very good advice. I once tried to help a bad coffee shop serve good coffee. I basically tried to train the barista in 20 minutes. Looking back I should have just ordered tea when I realised they do not really try to serve good coffee. Maximum respect to James Hoffmann for this video, it is very well thought out and sensible.

[@josephdeveau4150]

I was so fortunate growing up to have an amazing coffee shop and roaster in my relatively (100,000 pop) city. Always amazing. A little old fashioned by today's standards (e.g., cool coffee circa 2008) but made to a high standard. About midway through the pandemic I went back home to visit family. I was looking forward to supporting the coffee shop in person again and went into the space to get coffee...and...it sucked. The same equipment. Even a few of the same baristas. And the same beans you can buy online that are great. But ALL the love and attention to making the coffee was gone. The first few times I got espresso based beverages and they were under extracted, channelled and weak. Which caught me off guard. I went back a few more times and got drip coffee and it was clear it had been brewed hours and hours ago. Something that never occurred pre-pandemic. I had to start going to another previously less good coffee shop that is now better (relatively speaking) because I had spent like $40 on bad coffee over a week. I composed a thoughtful e-mail to the company to relay my experience but couldn't hit send. Obviously the pandemic did a number on them in some way and they were always so good there is no way they hadn't noticed themselves the reduced quality. At this point, I'm kind of suspecting they may move over to just doing roasting and whole sale. You can never go back home :(

[@firstlast446]

Thanks, don't have time for a full video at this coffee shop but the summary in the first 30 seconds is nice.

[@Elmapalm]

95% of the time, don't say anything- I think this applies to when you go to a friend or relatives house too and they make you a coffee

[@donutj97]

That's a different story man. In a cafe you paid for it.

[@Elmapalm]

@@donutj97 true but at a friend or relatives home they made it for you purely with good intention and kindness. personally I see it the same way as receiving a gift

[@petervansan1054]

@@Elmapalm if I get folgers then we have a problem

[@starwf07]

I think that scenario might be more like 100% of the time...

[@topstitchgirl]

On the rare occasion that my mom makes me a coffee that is too strong, I add a splash of hot water and drink it. More than likely I'm heading home afterwards so no point in making a huge deal out of it.

[@morganandreason]

Went to that shop with the green cups, the one that starts with an S. Got a large latte. Milk tasted cooked. Went back and said I'd like another because the milk tasted cooked. Got a new one, no hassle. Milk tasted cooked. You live and you learn.

[@dozog]

Totally possible your expectations were too high going in. 😁

[@trieuwerts]

From my experience working in large chain stores that serve coffee with dairy is that they tend to use UHT milk instead of pasteurized milk. Because UHT milk is heated to beyond boiling (above 135C/275F) it always has the cooked milk taste, even when cold.

[@williecourtney3848]

@@trieuwerts exactly

[@BandReviewCentral]

As someone who unfortunately works for the dreaded Siren, I can inform you that the milk is automatically steamed to 71c every single time (unless requested otherwise). Don’t ask me why because I cannot tell you for the life of me

[@coffeevie]

@@BandReviewCentral at my previous store we still ha the Mastrena 1, which heated milk to 152 F by default. I’ve heard from other people though that the Mastrena 2 heats to like 165 F by default or somewhere around there? Definitely way too hot

[@neutraloptions]

There is one HUGE benefit to drinking a bad coffee - it helps me to appreciate the next good one I get 🤣

[@veedubgeezer]

It makes me realise just how good my coffee at home has become!

[@keithpp1]

@@veedubgeezer A bad coffee shop, yes, I can do better. But I am never as good as a good coffee shop, which is why I tend to go out for a coffee. But if it is a choice when out, of bad coffee or no coffee, I will go without.

[@zcabbott]

I've only been in this situation once. The barista was grateful that I noticed the deviation from normal. He even admitted that dialing in that morning was more difficult than usual. Any barista or coffee shop manager worth their salt will be grateful for genuine feedback that keeps them from serving subpar product.

[@sebastiangudino9377]

Ok, but for real, the intro, with the coffee turning, was SUCH A NICE SHOT! Congrats!

[@Jeremy-fy1sz]

I find this is an issue in restaurants. You are tempted to complain, suggest they could do something better, but its not just 1 thing. There's a laundry list of things they need to do and no matter how much they are trying, there is very little you can do as a customer to help them produce a good product.

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

Whenever I think about complaining about anything, I look around at all the other people seemingly perfectly satisfied and figure, yeah this place just isn't for me. You leave and never come back, creating a big hassle makes everyone's day worse

[@curto312]

@@skeetsmcgrew3282 this is a great attitude, fair play

[@paulblichmann2791]

If you caught them cutting one corner, they've cut dozens along the line of every dish that hits the table.

[@lmaoitsover]

Dang, this reminded me.. they hired this new girl at one of my local spots.. right off I could tell something was off with the way she was grinding, distributing and tamping, not even in an elitist type of manner - she literally was worse than a beginner. After serving it to me, she says: "the coffee is a bit off today so I added an extra shot." bro.... why tf would you add an extra shot when it's already bad...... I took a few sips, died inside and threw it away

[@mochaccinoz]

Real life is so hilarious & sad.... better luck next time brother

[@Beakerbite]

I made a bad batch, here have the whole damn thing.

[@pyrethorn]

Listening to you talk about coffee is fascinating! I am not a coffee drinker. Tea is my drink of choice. That being said, I find your videos wonderfully informative. Thx! Your third scenario is why I've learned to make tea the way I like it, at home. I have anger issues due to chronic pain and no one deserves to be raged at when I get a bad cup of tea.

[@colecasstevens4909]

thanks to this channel and others, i think the moka pot coffee i make at home is better than most coffee shop coffee

[@Give-a-foot]

Thanks James. I’m currently living in Kyoto and went to one of the Blue Bottle cafes recently. My wife ordered a latte. I ordered pour over single origin. Hers was warmish, mine was “tea-like”. Trends have changes, and I’m seeing our errors. Their Bella Donavon blend is medium/dark. It wasn’t available that day. They suggested the single origin. We both were noticeably disappointed with our results. The barista was quick to make another “hotter latte” and did a special pour over (not on the menu that day) for me. 90% of communication is nonverbal. So, the lack of Japanese proficiency was my issue. We left feeling elatedly caffeinated! 16/1 lattes? We both need to start ordering espressos. Arabica Coffee Cafe is my current Kyoto favorite.

[@paganpines]

This whole idea is hilarious to me. I stopped making coffee at home because the art of making a good cup is far too complicated for me. I tried really really hard (like, scales and thermometers and various brewing techniques) and failed too many times. Now I only get my coffee from coffee shops. If the coffee sucks, I would have no way of knowing why.

[@CKT1138]

I should also add to the hot vs cold issue: DON'T COMPLAIN WHEN IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LESS THAN NEAR BOILING HOT PLEASE A lot of (generally older) customers in my experience think that anything less than the absolute hottest brewed coffee is "cold". Sometimes they say this after asking to have cold milk added, no less. I understand when it's lukewarm/actually cold, but 170°F coffee is not "cold"...

[@amanda121905]

Yes, I had to explain to an elderly lady that I couldn't possibly serve her coffee any hotter...it was literally boiling hot. The smell of that burnt microwaved coffee haunts me. She still said it was.cold

[@daniellemckay5596]

As a non-dairy latte drinker, I run into scorched milk SO often- I've considered asking for it to be "kid temperature" from the get-go just to try and avoid it. Thoughts?

[@be5952]

That sounds brilliant. Essentially, what you're doing is: a) Realizing there's such a big 'not-understanding' that asking in a normal way with normal vocabulary would be fruitless, and b) Changing the 'picture' in their mind so dramatically that they can't possibly misunderstand or repeat their mistake.

[@ilta222]

this happens to me really often as well! i feel like oat milk is especially prone to it and god it tastes awful when its burnt!! i just say 'can i get it less hot?' and this usually doesn't happen now. although, lately i've not wanted to go through the trouble of asking, so i just get regular milk.

[@CampLJNC]

I don't drink espresso, and my favorite coffee is Dunkin Donuts. From time to time I will get some old coffee that was brewed maybe hours ago, especially if its evening and I've ordered a decaf. Hubby and I can tell immediately if its old because then the color (with cream added) is grayish instead of tan. On a side note, I recently purchased a glass insulated coffee mug from Aldi's that I'm in love with! It keeps my coffee warm all the way to the end; no trips to the microwave! Yay!

[@me4901]

I go to a nice small pub and often order tea because I'm driving or other reasons. They had a collection of herbal teas but not my favorite. So after a few months, I just bought a box of my favorite herbal tea and gave it to them for free. Since then, they have kept my favorite tea stocked as one of their collection of teas even though my free box has long run out.

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

That is so beautiful. Where is this at??

[@mpbx3003]

The only time I've ever even thought about saying something was the time I got a vanilla latte from a local place while giving them a second chance after a mediocre first visit. They use a very, very burnt 90s espresso blend, overextracted it really badly, served it at like 85°C, and somehow put in the watermelon syrup they had for their Italian sodas. It tasted like barbecue sauce. I thought about saying something, but ended up drinking as much as I could stand, leaving, getting another drink somewhere else later, and just never going back. I don't think there was really any fixing that situation.

[@be5952]

_"...and somehow put in the watermelon syrup they had for their Italian sodas."_ Oi! Yes. When something that careless _(in both senses of the word)_ has happened, it's obvious the whole place is apathetic toward customers. It almost always is the fault of equally indifferent management / ownership. And with that realization, you might as well just...walk...out. (You can, optionally, have a quiet ~sigh~ as you leave.)

[@mpbx3003]

@@be5952 That was pretty much my thought. If everything else were great, I'd have maybe forgiven it due the syrups being in a rack alphabetically. But everything else was really wrong, so it was easy to just walk away.

[@cyan_2169]

Holy wow your story has me cackling