BADAB BEGINS! Tale of Four Warhammer 40,000 Gamers: Episode 1

[@NightfallTH]

Good evening fellow Badab War enthusiasts.

[@pervnav14]

Greetings brothers

[@majortom7186]

Surely the correct Americanism for Badab is, "No taxation without representaton!"

[@menthel77]

*furious internets typing* Sword brethren can use lightning claws. They updated the data sheets when everyone complained.

[@Thackman87]

Right

[@mariusdragoe2888]

Looks like some of the damage is already done.

[@JennyfaninSweden]

You guys should play with the Liber Badab War rules instead, fan rules based on the HH 2.0 rules, it has all the customisation from 7th an HH that we all love and there’s just focus on cool rules for you chapters. We are four players in southern Sweden playing with them, stated at 500pts and adding 250pts each month and it’s the most fun I’ve had since I started playing HH in 2015! Looking forward to following your progress into the Maelstrom!

[@ArbitorIan]

I've seen those, and it goes WAY further than I'd want. Using heresy is a great idea, but the custom rules for every chapter is exactly what I would have avoided.

[@Retrosicotte]

That ruleset looks great! HH2 is by far the best 40k ruleset they've ever made... but not for 40k! So ones that help adapt it are great!

[@fiftyv2.076]

I plan to play some games using Liber Badab. I think they went too far with their changes, but still, it looks like great work.

[@Retrosicotte]

@@fiftyv2.076 Detailed rules for subfactions is always my jam to see. I'd have every possible one have one if I could. Variety is the spice of life to someone who likes something in lore and wants to see if it has unique rules.

[@simonjackson1571]

Ah. This is great and I'm only 5 minutes in. I always feel like Badab is the most 40k of 40k. I've been thinking of starting a grimdark style chapter. This may be my inspiration.

[@Blacknight8850]

Come for the new To4G, stay for the really good discussion of why keeping up with modern Games Workshop games is so exhausting now!

[@Nathan5027]

27:41 most new sprues are like that now, as I understand it, it's because they digitally sculpt and slice up the models, they then let the computer put them on the sprue as space efficient as possible

[@thomassierp5583]

My all time favourite narrative campaign. Ive been working on an astral claws force for the last 12 months. All named characters, and armoured vehicles themed to their capacity to mass produce rhino chassis and line infantry arms. The new heresy stuff, and new terminators, have been perfect for building infantry with updated styling while still timeline specific. So much fun.

[@pgd75]

Just a thought, as it’s mostly marine on marine warfair, use heresy rules? Then legion rules for each chapter, eg: world eaters/ carcharadons, sons of Medusa/iron hands, lamentors/blood angels etc

[@FelizTheLifeguardMinion3]

I never thought in a million years I’d be watching people play warhammer videos on KZbin but here I am. Good content. Just got into it. It’s cool learning about all the different legions ❤😂🎉

[@ic3l3rd2]

Pefectly timed! I've just started a Fire Angels force. I'm aiming for half Firstborn (many of whom are veterans of Badab) and half Primaris, to show the future of the chapter. Very much looking forward to this series!

[@iceniwargames6347]

Badab war is peak 40K. On the rules side you could just use the era appropriate ones, i.e. 5th edition when the FW books came out. They did also release an official update PDF for 6th.

[@francois2449]

I'd definitely buy a "Make Badab Great Again" t-shirt in the colors of the Astral Claws

[@Storming32]

I loved the old Tale of 4 Gamers articles back in the day. I left 40k back in 5th edition and now I cant get my head around all the changes since

[@darnokx9277]

If you want to plan ahead, concerning Combat Patrols: there are quite a few that can easily be replicated with oldschool models. - Space Marines (the regular one): two characters in TA, a regular 5er Terminator squad and five Tacticals with flamers. - Dark Angels: a character in master-crafted armour, three fancy veterans, ten Tacticals with just bolters and five Tacticals with plasma. - Space Wolves: a choppy character on foot, ten Tacticals with just bolters, five Scouts, a Draednought with heavy flamer. - Black Templars: a choppy blinged character on foot, another choppy less blinged character on foot, ten Tacticals with mostly bolters and a flamer, four Scouts (meh) and... a Rhino. - Imperial Guard: a 5er command squad, two 10er squads with options, a Sentinel, two heavy weapon teams. If you want to do something a bit more fancy (Charcharadons, Executioners, Minotaurs or Astral Claws could use this one): - World Eaters: a leader in or on some creature or mechanical contraption, two 10er CC squads of Marines, 10 CC Scouts or Initiates. And the older CSM one - also suggested by somebody else in the comments already - is of course a great way to do: character on foot with two Servitors, ten Tacticals, Devestator Squad, Dreadnought (all with options).

[@Levelochef]

I find your lack of Space Sharks disturbing. This shall be rectified.

[@davidchristie1200]

looking forward to see this - one option is to take the old chaos combat patrol and loyalist it - so 10 tactical marines, 5 devastators, dreadnought and captain with 2 servitors. cant wait to see all the chapters.

[@hooliganblack832]

That's what I'm doing with my Astral Claws. Except a slightly different plan with the Dark Apostle. Chaos is a much better option for firstborn units now.

[@gkiyo]

Been loving the badab lore videos, looking forward to following this.

[@koz1138]

Ian: has anyone played kill team? Everyone: no Kill Team: get ready for the craziest LOS rules you can possibly imagine

[@ismael9914]

The new (KT 2024) rules simplified that by a lot, as someone who played the previous rules, yeah visibility was the worst part But now it's way clearer and more intuitive, basically the biggest part is checking if they got the engage order or the hide order.

[@benrunciman4399]

Only people who haven't played Kill team think the los rules are crazy

[@Gigakhah]

Love it. Currently painting up way way too many carcharodons

[@sumeetbains750]

love it!

[@FunnyTaco143]

It seems like with all of you doing firstborn and what you kinda wanted for killteam is that you should be looking at first edition.

[@TKUltra971]

Badab War.. oh man the classic introduction to 40k. It needs a cinematic feature.

[@JMACCSArmiesOfMiddleEarth]

The kick I need to do true scale marines. Primaris scale but Firstborn loadouts. Miss when 40k was more skirmishy, a carnifex used to be a big deal now you can have a million of them.

[@Lirretobb]

Yes, Kill Team! Really doesn't matter if you run firstborn models, but you'd generally be playing the (re-named) *_Angels of Death_* kill team. (It was 'intercessors and assault intercessors' aka 'tactical and assault', it's now added a few more options). Team rules should be online and free on 5th Oct. (And indeed you could use Legionary (CSM), Nemesis Claw (nightlordsish), Phobos (weaker-sneakier), or SM scouts rules as well, to suit what you are going for). Eagerly awaiting your conversions to KT fanatics!

[@muratferguson4534]

The sword brethren have Lightning claws now. They (GW) forgot those.

[@marjoe32]

Badab war build-up, BadAss.

[@scalenetriangles2520]

For the record, ossified mods online has written a badab war mod for the new 2021 version of kill team! I don't know how balanced it is, but it has a lot of fun flavour.

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah, we've seen that. Russel likes it, but I think it's WAY too complicated. Like most fan projects, it's run away off the deep end of 'lets add THIS!'

[@scalenetriangles2520]

@@ArbitorIan understandable! Hope you all have fun with this project! Love the badab war, my custom chapter is inspired by its aesthetics

[@Minglesmoot]

@@ArbitorIanaka Game Designer’s megalomania

[@fiftyv2.076]

This is a different project to the Liber Badab, Ian.

[@StuffedCrows]

Hey Ian, this project is pretty exciting. It seems like Badab has been picking up in popularity recently with my friends and I even starting our own similar project. That being said is seems like enthusiasm about actually playing the game was low and a lot of this video's discussion was spent either about trying to just play the game and trying to make the current edition of Killteam and 40k even work. Have you considered playing an older edition of the game? Perhaps 5th edition to use the original rules for Badab? Alternatively it seems like you all have quite a bit of experience with 2nd edition, that has also picked up in popularity recently and you might have more fun with it. I know you have already responded to Liber Badab as being too much but the older official options might be what you are looking for. Personally most of the 40k I play these days is 3rd edition and my friends and I are having a blast. I just don't think you should be tied down to playing the newest version of the game, especially if you're having to make it work for you rather than it allowing you to do what you want.

[@WozWozEre]

Got some Carcharadons almost finished that I'd love to submit.

[@wolfinstedd]

Few friends had talk about doing badab war with LEGIONS IMPERIALI system , which felt would be a good fit.

[@mailthedragon]

I think this will be the 4th edition of kill team. I recently got a set, I have another that has all the rules for all warbands as troops and I know there was an earlier version because a local game store was frantically trying to unload it at the time. Bad that they don't have a firstborn, or primaris set in the new one. I get it though, they use killteam to produce the less well known units. Plastic Mandrakes!!!!!

[@DanielVisOneCade]

We recently had a 2nd edition game day here in my part of the world. I didn't realise Lufgt Huron had a profile and force composition for 2nd till this year. So now I've been thinking about getting a Astral Claws or Tiger Claw force ready for the event next year. I also have a Red Corsair force (plus chaos power specific legionnaires) partially done up but on the newer larger bases for use with OPR - Grim Dark Future no reason to redo them for the old 25mm goblin green bases.

[@lazyc0mmander277]

Best opening without doubt.

[@singtothesilence]

Surely for the secessionists it should be "Sector's Rights"?

[@Minglesmoot]

Sector’s right to what

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

I’m looking forward to seeing where you go with this. It sounds like an interesting progression. I will say that Kill Team - as far as balance goes - doesn’t look at the level of granularity that was being discussed. They look at tournament take rates & win rates. They don’t look at team composition because most teams have pretty fixed rosters.

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah, I think tbh, that's what makes games like Kill Team functionally better for competitive play than games like 40k/Heresy. The fixed teams means there are way less variables to try and balance and less chance that someone will turn up to an unwinnable game because of list selection.

[@ismael9914]

@@ArbitorIan What I'm sad about is that it seems this new edition will NOT drop with campaign rules (at least not from the start, maybe they will release in 3-6 months with another new teams) It was not perfect, but it gave you a system to actually personalize your units and team

[@benrunciman4399]

​@@ismael9914 i would wager that White dwarf will have campaigns for kill team

[@evanvaldyke353]

The Japanese mantis warriors comes heavily from the fan art in the old Bell of Lost souls badab campaign. They fan-filled alot of gaps and that was one that stuck around

[@forgingaheadinart]

Love the bit on the checker checking, got a good laugh out that!! Good luck everyone!!

[@thepartworkscomicsreader9488]

Deathwatch make a good jumping off point for Griffins, they're supposed to have lots of Mk VIII armour.

[@voidimperatrix406]

This is super exciting, I love the badab war

[@TheAnchorite]

Interesting to see the amount of love for the Mantis Warriors (not that I disagree, just didn't expect to see quite *that* many). Also curious the lack of representation for Minotaurs and Space Sharks! (Admittedly they're bastards, but then none of the Primarchs were married as far as I can tell...)

[@DMDemon1987]

Wooo looking forward to this I read the books and built a Astral Claws army back in the day. Might dust them off after so long.

[@steverogers3696]

Oh i have been waiting for this video since it was announced, on a day off too!

[@idontwanttopickone]

I've really been put off ever getting back into 40k because of the complete focus on competitive games. Seeing 40k players set up the same dull looking ruins isn't inspiring at all. I think there has been a real loss of soul from GW with their focus on only having GW terrain and focusing on competitive play. I would much rather they allowed staff to build scratch built terrain and make more dynamic battles that weren't focused on being competitions, but rather were about grand narratives and interesting character development for your armies.

[@chrisrice9986]

Literally nothing is stopping you from doing this. Tournament rules don’t hinder or prevent you from doing things the way you want to in casual games

[@cooperzilkenat3220]

Glad to hear my complaints about 10th echoed across the whole panel

[@TantheTaxman]

This is a great excuse to continue painting my Minotaurs! For the Emperor, for the imperium, for the high lords of terra!

[@MattyStoked]

Badab War is best war!

[@mattschaning9697]

The big guns never tire Gary, show them Huron was right!

[@laurenbastin8849]

“I don’t care how many Fire Hawks the Administratum sends, I am not paying taxes” - Lufgt-Huron, tyrant of Badab

[@knightmareminis]

Fuck yeah! Just painted an astral claw for a competition, this has came at a good time (or bad time if you're my wallet)

[@arnekrug939]

Nice, I hope this will help motivate me to get work on my Minotaurs done.

[@enzovignati]

There is a Kill Team 2021 Homebrew/Mod book for the Badab War chapters that use Firstborn and every Chapter have special rules and Operators, is worth the time, and is perfect to you four!

[@dekai7992]

I love Bobby's first models!

[@jordanslater4705]

Carcharodons Astra, anyone? Where are my Sea Puppers?

[@ReubenAotearoa]

Fine then. I guess I’ll get my Mantis Warrior project dusted off.

[@mailthedragon]

Cool! Not sure yet, I was thinking of doing either the Mantis Warriors or Sons of Medusa, mostly because of what I found in my undesignated firstborn collection. I need more info on the other chapters...

[@crimsonclone]

Can't wait to see the star phantoms, been painting my 40k marines up as then and having a great time

[@BoringAngler]

I just noticed that if I wanted to be stupid, I could read the channel name on the right hand side graphic as "Arbitorian" like they were a home brew IG unit. The 7th Arbitorian Orbitjaegers are here supporting a platoon of Iron Fists.

[@finnianjoyce-velez8079]

You guys could also look at the badab war fan supplement for age of darkness 2.0 for your “full scale game”

[@ArbitorIan]

I've seen it and I think that, while HH is a good idea for a base game, the writers have gone WAY off the deep end with custom chapter rules and unit modifications.

[@yeastie713]

A disturbing lack of Minotaurs!!

[@stoneosborne9247]

"................." - A Carcharadon, probably.

[@RetoKelsen]

Awwwwww nooooohoooooo :D I’ve been painting Griffons since this years march as a nostalgia warrior project with friends, and now this 😂 Last time I hoped in, I painted half a year mostly yellow IF30k, will I join again????? I think probably yes, but I need to find a scheme/chapter that is quicker to paint then my usual marines. I still have tons of 2nd edition and other firstborn marines which I’ll never be able to paint for my Griffons all along. So maybe I’ll add a Griffons Nightworld detachment, that would probably the most easy way to go. I’ll have to check the other chapters and see what’s interesting :)

[@thedubstepaddict3675]

There is a mod for KT 2.0 for the badab war which includes things like terminators and centurions. I do suspect the makers will update it for the new edition.

[@jorgeclarkson8286]

If I wasnt y doing my own tale of gamers I would LOVE to do Executioners! I am very happy Manti Warriors are getting to much love, suprised how popular they are!

[@talscorner3696]

I wish GW still sold Betrayal at Calth and the Burning of Prospero... the Mk III in one of those boxes was *crisp*

[@talscorner3696]

Also, man, I'm loving the 2nd edition BRIGHT and very popping vibes on Final Jack's Fire Hawks kill team ^^

[@tomryan3768]

It's awesome to hear you folks discussing the Badab stuff like you're Grognards! Have you thought of OPR for any aspects of the games? It has a variety of "Battle Brothers" and "Havoc Brothers" army lists that would be perfect.

[@katfezza4570]

Bobbie's MkV work in progress looks aces. Definitely looking forward to seeing more converted minis.

[@boop2908]

Funny I just started a Badab project. Epic.

[@opiebrezhnev6507]

I've been hype for this for way too long

[@WarzoneMorloc]

Really impressive green stuff work on the fire hawks

[@Capt.DanInJapan]

This reminds me of a few projects I had going a long time ago, including an Executioners force and an Astral Claws battle company. The Kill Team idea sounds great! As for the Primaris thing, it would matter to me. I can't speak for anyone else, but a big part of the Badab War's appeal for me is the pseudo-historical vibe. For me, the inclusion of Primaris units would detract from that.

[@WarzoneMorloc]

Moist for Badab War! I’m currently building Sons of Medusa and Lamenters

[@Noverogi]

Are you following the timeline for who is and isn't in the fight or will the Executioners players have to flip a coin that day on what side they fight for.

[@ArbitorIan]

BROADLY but some people are bringing some chapters who technically start a bit later. Majority seems to be Mantis Warriors and Lamenters Vs a ton of Fire Hawks tho

[@euansmith3699]

The Badabening begins!

[@bengoodwin2988]

It's happening!

[@jonesdan85]

Thoroughly enjoyed that. Despair that i just recently sold my Forgeworld Badab War books but I think im gonna have to get on board with this, at least a Kill Team anyway I dont think I want to play anything related to 10th. Maybe build a combat patrol, but probably not play with it.

[@Gee_359]

big respect to the sons of Mancora!

[@eadbrown8765]

Mantis Warriors as space samurai is pure fanon, it's not from any GW source. Sadly CS Goto did indeed "write" some stuff featuring Mantis Warriors, and basically went free range with most of his reference material being the fan Badab War supplement and RT era details. I managed to fix most of the more egregious bits in Trial of the Mantis Warriors, when it was reprinted in the big Space Marines anthology though

[@ArbitorIan]

That makes more sense. I knew the CS Goto books were from before the FW Badab War series, and reading both, it does seem like the FW series tries to track back a bit and make them more sensible

[@eadbrown8765]

@@ArbitorIan the intention for the FW version of the Mantis Warriors was for them to be less insect more desert mystic priests, and you can see what would have become the chapter symbol on the tabards that some of the marines have in the colour profiles in IA9 and 10; hence their special character being "the Dust Prophet" and then being ambush specialists

[@Minglesmoot]

@@eadbrown8765as in more like the Fedaykin of Dune?

[@eadbrown8765]

@@Minglesmoot they were definitely a source of inspiration, yeah

[@KoW4LsKy]

Badab war is a great excuse to play Besthammer 40k (4th edition)

[@MoxAmber26]

I haven't figured out if I want to follow along or not, and I was between a few factions. The deluge of Mantis Warriors makes me much less interested in them. Love my sad mantis boys but I was giggling by the last mantis warrior squad lmao

[@josepholiveira2873]

I have little interest in playing Kill Team or 40k. But every time y'all do one of these series, I'm tempted to hop in just to paint along. Not least because I don't see any of *my* favorite Horrible Badab War Bastards here, the Minotaurs.

[@alexsmith7313]

I’m high as a kite and eating beef jerky; now I can actually get into a series I’ve been curious about for a while cause I’m sufficiently calmed to not jump to the first KZbin short that looks interesting and then I get sidetracked for hours lmao

[@lukemclellan2141]

Do you have an android phone? I delete the shorts when they appear in the feed, then they soon stop appearing at all.

[@Ragsta]

I love all you guys refreshing honesty when it comes to 10th edition :D

[@TimcPlays]

I've just taken delivery of some Space Marine scouts for Kill Team and was thinking of doing Charcarodons..this just confirms that choice! 😁

[@ArbitorIan]

🐠

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Yeah, there’s a lot more than 16 teams and you can’t actually keep more than 20 or 30 teams both unique and balanced. The Kill Team community tends toward the competitive end of the spectrum. It’s not like Blood Bowl or Necromunda, where imbalances are understood and accepted. KT21 players expect to have a chance to win with any supported team they choose.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Boarding Actions is pretty decent. Combat Patrol, not so much... but if you’re all using the same Patril, just painted differently, it should work much better. Maybe a little boring (?).

[@neilthomas5816]

Oooh - colour me interested for some of those campaign games.....

[@Maevola]

You have been missing out skipping tenth so far, in my opinion at least, the game is in the best state it has been in years right now. The last time i remember having this much fun is the beginning of seventh, and that was for very different reasons. The start was bumpy but its good fun now they had time to smooth out some stuff. Pariah Nexus has been great so far. Tho granted i have no idea if the more streamlined approach tenth took will resonate with all of you. Edit: I, personally, dont really get the "i cant see what my enemy is doing cause of detachements" complaint. Because i think to a degree that isnt the case. An army that looks as if it wants to murder me in close combat will still do that. Its not like World Eaters suddenly have any shooty detachements. Maybe there are more overarching rules that are specific to each army, but as there is one per detachement i dont think that is too much to pay attention to. I can relate way more to the "it is a huge advantage to know what my enemy does" comment. The thing is: I would say that has always been the case. If i have no experience fighting knights i wont be able to judge my or their damage output no matter what edition im in.

[@DanielVisOneCade]

A lot of game systems is multiple years long updates end up in the same position. Sooner or later you will find people don't want the front loading of effectively doing a research paper just to "KEEP UP" with what's current. Doesn't matter if it's your facing competitive player's or not just not been able to have even a faint clue of if your going to have a fair equitable game in your free time is enough that the burden of learning the system a fresh isn't worth it. 40k has been like this guy be for a while. Infinity the Game just reached the same point with the move to 5th edition. Bolt Action as well but it's less warts and all as the above two these days I'd rather play one page rules games since the ancillary special rules are far less likely to be baked in to force opposite.

[@Maevola]

@@DanielVisOneCade I get what you are saying, and again i agree to some extent. But was there really a time in 40k where there wasnt basicly a mountain of rules to learn before you could start? I only know the game from 6th edition onwards, so maybe i never experienced that phase. And even tho 10th still has that very steep learning curve i think it is actually easier to get into than 9th for example. Possibly even easier than 8th and certainly a lot easier than 7th or 6th. The main change is that what is current changes faster now. I also would say that with less rules you tend to sacrifice complexity. So a balance should be struck. Probaply depends on preference in the end.

[@ismael9914]

Yep, while 10ed has a lots of problems (mainly free equipment and extremly loose army list building) I love the cleaning and changes made from 9th. Mainly I hated having +20 stratagems, most being wet paper, a feel bad if you forget or "why the hell this isnt on the unit profile?" The detachment makes your lists more foccussed an easy to pilot, with some personalization to it. Yes, it could/should had more into it, and GW hates giving rules to things not in the box (and making this the same), but I guess it will be for 11th ed Every time I see people play Horus Heresy they have to spen 30 min talking about the special rules, and every now and then check for some niche rule/keyword, roll for tables etc than seems such a time waster

[@KelRiever]

GW's seasons are constantly a terrible idea, and I've not seen it ever work while expanding a game. Greed wasn't invented yesterday, every company wants you to lease your game rather than own figures forever, not because they can't survive in the latter model, but because they make more money in the former, simply put. The irony of players is that they seem fine with endlessly buying miniatures, as long as you don't make their prior purchases defunct. When GW does, they inevitably chase away players, until they wise up, and come back with a game, if they ever do. See Horus Heresy, Old World, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, and nearly every game they've put into a sunset because, fundamentally, just wanting to all make more money. No reason to get the new kill team if they're doing seasons. Current Kill Team is quite good and fine. It won't take a stroke of genius or a new edition to figure out co-op mode. No doubt, a smaller group will play the new Kill Team, and GW has already priced it in so they will pay for all the players GW loses. Already, you can see it in the price of the new box set (I can't speak for everywhere, but it was a massive pre-order flop at the local FLGS, and there is/was, a strong KT crowd going).

[@MrLense]

Are you a purely tabletop channel? Have you played space marine 2?

[@patrikandersson8054]

How do I join the discord? I really want to be part of this. A few friends of mine are looking to get into the new Kill team, and I'm thinking about joining with a Badab themed force.

[@GaryKeenan]

Invite is via patron :)

[@patrikandersson8054]

@@GaryKeenan It's behind a paywall? Then I will respectfully decline.

[@Thackman87]

Swprd brethen can use lightening clwas with updated data sheets

[@craigwoodhouse3813]

I would like to get back into playing 40k but I'm not a serious player I like to have a laugh and very few people seem to just play for fun and second I really don't like the primaris or any of the models I love space marines they are my main army but I can't bring myself to collect primaris I'm sorry

[@johnnyexponential7229]

I have pretty heavy Gary energy about the current version of the game. Just seems like there's too much stuff to try and remember with all the detachments and command point rules. For a casual player at best it's a pretty intimidating understanding gap. Still, there's no rule that says I can't just play the editions I remember. It's going to be a fun watching the crew get to grips with the new game though.

[@ArbitorIan]

Oh we're totally stealing 'Gary Energy' and using that!

[@menthel77]

It's funny because there is actually less to remember than in 9th. Fewer starts, enhancements, some keywording (although inconsistent) and more streamlined profiles (in some cases). Problem is GW have put themselves into a corner with the competitive thing and I think it just scares people off. Personally I have found 10th much simpler than 8th or 9th. And rogue trader and 2nd. I have no idea about in between. 😂

[@Spiketicon]

@@menthel77for those of us whose heyday with 40k was around 3rd-5th edition, even 10th is far more heavy than what we once enjoyed. There was a lot of customisation in terms of wargear and unit compositions but no command points, no stratagems, no keywords, etc. It was very straightforward by comparison.

[@AlisdairSmith]

Sad beard has got problem for every solution.

[@a.k.summers5633]

Nice!

[@anotherzingbo]

It's all Badab War this, Badab War that, why is there no Fourth Quadrant Rebellion, Fourth Quadrant Rebellion that? Pretty much the first thing ever established about the Badab War was that it wasn't as significant as the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion!

[@fiftyv2.076]

Legit question, and I think with two good answers. Firstly, the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion wasn't so much one conflict as a series of related ones. Secondly, it had less marine vs marine action. So whilst the overall impact was greater, it has a less compelling narrative with no "big bad" like Lugft Huron. Secondly it has less exciting battles.

[@anotherzingbo]

@@fiftyv2.076 in the very early Rogue Trader days there seems to have been a few snippets of lore suggesting the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion was quite a big deal. But it doesn't seem to have qualified for a big Forge World rewrite and instead seems to have been expanded upon in a way that doesn't make it that compelling. And for some reason that makes me a little sad.

[@fiftyv2.076]

@anotherzingbo I've always felt the exact same way. "Fourth Quadrant Rebellion" always had a cool, romantic sound to it, I thought.

[@hermesshkurti396]

OMG OMG!!!

[@dannyhumphreys4997]

Was really excited to see you are starting with kill team. Gary doesn't seem to get it. It's an awesome game with such a competitive meta people who study the game 24 hours a day don't know how to balance it with all the teams and options.

[@Backpflaume666]

I don't really get the rejection of 10th edition. The points in the video are made up in my opinion: CP microgame? That is an exaggeration. You (basically) get two CP per turn (one in your and one in the enemys command phase). That is all. Doesn't sound like a microgame to me. Also what is the problem with detachments? If you have a range focused army it doesn't make sense at all to pick a detachment that boost close combat exclusively. I mean you can do something like that but it is not a good decision. Also what is the deal with things that are 'invisible', like detachment rules or strategems. This is a game which works only with some degree of imagination. If you don't like that why are you even playing tabletop games? Most arguments sounded very negative and apparently nobody of you even played 40k 10th edition. Most of you didn't even played 9th edition. Also let me tell this: Combat patrol is like a tutorial for 40k. A simplified version of the game for beginners. But it lacks depth and rules support. It is literally for starters who bought and built the first little army out of a combat patrol box. I like the idea behind that. But combat patrol isn't something for tournaments or for players who are in the hobby for a longer period. It is not well balanced too.

[@ArbitorIan]

I'd argue that 40k, mechanically, is a terrible game for tournament play overall. Games like Kill Team and Underworlds are better structured for that. Competitive 40k is a delusion. But the point here is that we HAVEN'T played 10th yet. We're coming from a position of playing 8th, and then dropping out through 9th, and both of THOSE games had way more CP, and pages on pages of stratagems per army that everyone has to memorise to know what their opponent could do. CP farming and the colossal number of stratagems made that feel like a whole metagame, a test of memory rather than a game you play on a table. The invisible upgrades complaint arises because there WERE versions of 40k where pretty much everyone a model could take was visible on the model. No stratagems, no warlord traits, no detachment abilities. And in that game, apart from one or two things like mission cards, you could basically look at an opponents army and SEE what it was equipped with. So we're coming into 10th having played all those versions of the game, and judging it against those.

[@Backpflaume666]

​​@@ArbitorIan 10th edition plays a lot better than 9th edition in my opinion. It is way better structured and lost a lot of niche rules and strategems for example. But a lot of people hate 10th edition anyway which is sad. I haven't played older editions although I am a 40k fan for at least 20 years now. Tabletop in general isn't for tournaments in my opinion for various reasons. It is way more fun if it is embedded in a narrative story. That is the reason I like the Crusade mode of 40k very much.

[@nicolasquijano5471]

Lmao nobody is exited to play 10th, kinda depressing but I guess old heads are like that

[@ArbitorIan]

Well the last thing we played was 9th which was a total mess. So up for being proven wrong?