SFV Final Patch at a glance - Urien

[@superheriber27]

LTG in shambles

[@sicklenickle]

"Is Urien dead? Maybe dead Maybe dead" - Nemo, 2022

[@justUnhuman7425]

Tokido on EVO 2022

[@Rudiudiii]

The fireball nerf is intresting since it already had a slow recovery and is very susceptible to jump ins

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

They did not want this dude to win.

[@BrendorTheEndor]

Maybe it's cuz he has like an AA fireball as well? Still seems a bit unnecessary imo

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@BrendorTheEndor not on reaction....it's a much as an AA is jumping hp. It only works with a good grounded fireball....it's nerfed right along with everything else. A balanced tool set ruined.

[@Rudiudiii]

@@BrendorTheEndor true I think his fireball was fine, nice ganandorf lmao one of my favorite characters in melee

[@jk844100]

A character like Urien that has excellent neutral, mix-ups and combos shouldn’t have an invincible reversal.

[@superbigtime]

this, plus Aegis Reflector has always been one of the best triggers in the entire game

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

FO

[@TheFightingGentleman]

Bare in mind that he can combo AFTER the reversal hits to good oki afterward

[@CampinSteve]

lmfao fucking what, what are his excellent mixups? his neutral is okay, he's good at poking and buffering. this is a shit take

[@Neogears1312]

Ikr? Any way hi ken how you doing? *S

[@durdle.]

At 7 frames aegis can’t punish -6 anymore? So like fireballs ? That’s pretty big

[@chasemillares7363]

He can still punish his own fireballs they’re -7 I’m pretty sure

[@travis7843]

Good observation. This is pretty big.

[@shindj2382]

Let’s see what Urien still has -Good pokes in neutral -Good mixups -High health -High Damage -Good V-System -Good Anti-Airs He’s not bottom trash tier like everyone says he is now, he just lost ex headbutt.

[@hhdrathktekken7964]

Which means he's fucked on wake up

[@Ghaust8546]

Fax

[@13thKingMu]

Ppl just don't use him rn,they think Nemo(former Urien main) said "Urien maybe dead" means he's trash when he still has alot of good stuffs and only some of his tools got worse but that's not a big deal at all It's like they think Luke might be like next Deadshot that top 8 in touraments will only be him and the ones who good against him(just because he barely changed) when the tier list getting more balance especially characters like Juri and Alex finally got their time

[@PomadaGaming]

yes but they also put Luke in the game

[@FiveGates]

As a Mika/Nash main since S1... the tears over the loss of Headbutt are delicious, especially while the rest of his kit is mostly the same, I.e. still great.

[@CeJAZZ]

Fellow Mika main here - time to use that salt to make that Laffy Taffy!!!

[@dreggywegs]

Gorilla tears.. so tasty

[@Angel7black]

I think theres actually a bigger issue here and its you dont fundamentally change the way a character works operates 6 years into a game as its ending. Maybe he shouldnt have had it from the beginning you think but it shouldnt be changed this late into the games life

[@tcchip]

​@@Angel7black that's not a fundamental change. A fundamental change is if you mess with the way his footsies or V-Triggers work. Urien already has some of the best pokes and V-Trigger in the game. He's incredibly oppressive to deal with in neutral or when he's advantageous. I'm guessing it's implemented now because it's already hard enough to open him up to begin with, and then not being able to meaty him when you finally get to knock him down doesn't make a lot of sense.

[@Chun-believable]

@@Angel7black Removing his invincible reversal is changing how he’s played? Fundamentally? It’s so hysterical how people are just outing themselves on how they “used” their character.

[@ADxTygon]

Finally urien players have to take the same mix that they put people through constantly. Well deserved.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

They where always doing that. What mix up could urien get out of that anyone else could not?

[@BasicallyGoblin]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 If you had half a brain, you'd be dangerous.

[@YaBoiBigSmoke147]

What are you talking about? There are definitely situations you can force on characters with no reversal that you cannot on characters that have one.

[@binsuo.1506]

watching this video is like watching an autopsy

[@DEClimax]

the doomsaying reactions to urien losing invul on EX headbutt tells you a lot about how those people were playing the character

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

Losing a move, nerfed agis and fireballs. Yeah, what does it say?

[@DEClimax]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 when you hold down back on the stick urien blocks the same as any other character my friend

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@DEClimax stupid......gg

[@cays8835]

​@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 His fireballs despite the nerfs are still great and actually usable as a zoning and pressure tool compared to others', he still has beyond excellent pokes + whiff punishes and neutral game, fantastic anti-fireball tools, great mixups, fantastic pressure, and good VTriggers and VSkills with Aegis, despite the nerfs, still being phenomenal. He's a risk-free, highly consistent character that can do basically whatever he wants both in neutral and on his advantage. He can still block, delay tech, backdash, jump, mix-up his recoveries, wake-up CA, and of course V-Shift which is effectively a somewhat safer and potentially more rewarding reversal option than his previous EX headbutt. EX headbutt and even tackle can still be used defensively with his VSkill and EX Headbutt is still throw invincible outside of that. You still have defensive options. Urien just has to take a bit more pressure when it's the opponent's turn, because it's a 2-player game. He can still dominate most of the cast in neutral and in the close-up game, with some characters having little to no options against Urien's tools. He can still do basically whatever he wants in neutral and get away with it. Prior to losing EX Headbutt as an invincible reversal, he could get a combo with excellent corner carry and oki out of a successful reversal. He doesn't need everything, no character does, otherwise it would be overpowered and boring for everyone. That's Luke's job. If you want a character with everything, go play Luke.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@cays8835 lol...again all..not some, Not few. Allllll top urien players....professional players. Say his dead. Everyone else's buffs plus his nerfs make him a bad character.

[@GemmaBee14]

I thought the fireball hurtbox nerf seemed a bit undeserved since his fireballs already had the longest recovery didn’t they?

[@noahsboxffa5156]

Nah it functions now like a hodouken

[@glawrk2861]

​@@noahsboxffa5156If anything it's a testament to how lame fireballs are these days

[@aqgpandemic5406]

Honestly I think removing the invincibility on EX headbutt is really being exaggerated in terms of how hard a nerf it is. Plus I agree that I don’t think Urien having an invincible reversal in the first place made much sense in terms of the design of his kit. They translated over his gameplay from 3S so well and this honestly just bring him more in line with that version which I think works

[@CampinSteve]

urien had a parry in 3s. Now he has no defense. character is dead.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

@@CampinSteve Vshift, Vreversal, VS1 EX Tackles, AND super. How is that “no” defense lol

[@Hillthugsta]

@@NeoBoneGirl I'm starting to see what Brian F was talking about when he said people are not using all the tools they are given...

[@dyldragon1]

I think it's much better design space to make Uriens utilize VS1's armor for reversals instead of him just having an invincible reversal. It makes me wonder if we'll see some more VS1 now.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

@@dyldragon1 It’s also just much better because let’s be real, the true reason why Urien is really strong is Aegis, but if you nerf Aegis too hard, there’s no point to playing Urien. Nerfing him in other areas is the smart choice

[@ericmclean4291]

The slower startup to mirror may be a little more significant than people may think. it was also great for punishing any -5 moves that were normally safe due to spacing.

[@giganiqqa3381]

I think they should have kept the invincibility on headbutt by installing vs1. Making urien players choose between v-skills

[@CrystalMang0]

It has armor dude so why would it give invincibility? That's already a reason to pick vs1. Think dude

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@CrystalMang0 armor is trash...it's specifically only works at the middle of the move. It's trash and no one uses it.

[@lemonrancher1037]

Shit should be a dp motion if it's not invincible

[@GemmaBee14]

What does that even change

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@GemmaBee14 mobility

[@GemmaBee14]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 he has tackle already as a generally safe advancing move that also doesn’t whiff on crouching opponents. Ex headbutt is -10 and non invincible, seeing as it’s meant to be used mid combo mostly I don’t think you’d really get much out of it being a dp motion rather than charge

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@GemmaBee14 saying it can't be used creatively.....it doesn't matter. His dead to me and the pros.

[@Call_me_E_C]

The 09er "SF4 is my first SF game, so I want to mash even in knockdown/negative scenarios" is pretty strong here

[@Shnibbledacat]

they may take his invincible dp but they'll never take his sauce

[@starpe__251]

No reversals? :(

[@E.Thomas06]

No oki? :(

[@starpe__251]

@@E.Thomas06 No damage? :(

[@Vidya-James]

Urien keeps a throw-invincible EX move, but not Gief???

[@shaunmcisaac782]

Gief down in below dan tier...

[@Masterfm1000]

I think the aegis nerf affected Uriens confirms not punishes(atleast that's what I've seen, don't really play him)

[@pizzaiolom]

You cool punish bad fireballs before since theyre -6 and lots of normals/specials that are -5 but too far to punish

[@internetmovieguy]

Just a reminder that they took away Zangief’s throw invincibility on his ex move. URIEN got to keep the throw invincibility on his EX move. So I don’t want to hear any complaining.

[@dimex3362]

Gief has a vtrigger that goes through fireballs, free armor moves, command grabs that are untechable and the best looping oki in the game...

[@internetmovieguy]

@@dimex3362 best looping oki? yeah, okay. i think you havent played this game since they released vshift.

[@dimex3362]

@@internetmovieguy wait... spd... same as the counter for backdash. Also, v shift or not... still the best looping oki or vortex mixup in the game. Because basically no one else has it.

[@nebiyuesayas5600]

For me, Urien having the reversal was nice for him but not needed. Urien is like Bison-strong neutral and mixups, but poor defense, so the reversal just throws it off. I'm more concerned with the hurtbox buffs, although the reversal loss is notable. Edit: I wouldn't be opposed to a worse reversal over removing one, though, forgot to add.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

All other top tiers got life reduced...no one has ever had a dp removed.

[@RicardoPetinga]

The only thing Bison's defense is weak against is cross-ups, and he got buffs to more easily cover that now. Bison can easily get out of pressure situations in more ways than most characters. He's also very plus on block and can maintain pressure more consistently than most and cause a lot of chip damage from blockstrings, and still be safe after a lot of them and start over, especially if he has EX meter to threaten with. Almost none of that applies to Urien.

[@CampinSteve]

he already had that corner stuff

[@zackdoom]

Slightly changed it can hit way higher making the mixup easier to land and harder to see Mix as hell

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@zackdoom cool. Good luck getting anyone into the corner with trash fireballs.

[@cctz_1]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 u can get ppl to the corner with any character. I think ur just mad abt not being carried anymore 😂

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@cctz_1 just remember that ken and Bison got buffs....enjoy.

[@Moonking7]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 and urien was so much better than them previously, they deserve their spotlight, urien overstayed him welcome tbh, rip unga EX headbutt

[@juanospitia]

i started maining urien literally just today and wondered what invincible options he had. Turns out he has none. But i'm having SO much fun with the character lmao

[@somesandman8328]

I like Urien’s changes… as a Urien player. What? I’m taking the throw, screw you

[@nowaylater6950]

Meanwhile, Zangief...

[@SamStraker]

*NO EX HEADBUTT*

[@Whienzarth]

its true

[@animaIpath]

- LowTierGod

[@ricardoludwig4787]

I think they should have made it a worse reversals, not removed it altogether, I think most urien mains would prefer receiving none of those buffs, and still taking the other heavy nerfs to some of his best pokes and neutral tools but at least keeping their reversal, since it was now part of the character's identity

[@hughmungus99]

Urien never needed a reversal in the first place. His insane combos, good health, good neutral, good matchup spread, ex tackle, aegis, good anti air conversions, etc were really strong and having a reversal was overkill tbh. And i love urien as a character i played him in 3s and trust me his wakeup heabutt was not part of his identity, i feel like as long as his juggle combos, good neutral, and aegis as a combo and mixup tool stayed then it didn't remove his identity in any way

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@hughmungus99 no...they killed him. Last edition of the game and they removed a move. Rip

[@nowaylater6950]

How could Urien's EX Headbutt is part of his identity??? Why should he have every tool working while the rest character (except Luke) don't even have the tool they need?

[@tcchip]

Believe me, you wouldn't want nerfs to his pokes. Losing an invincible reversal doesn't change how you play footsies, it only limits your wakeup options. Urien is a monster in the neutral game. Nerfing his best pokes on the other hand, would really mess his core gameplay. That's what happened to Alex in S2, and all the buffs he got in exchange never really made up for him basically having a terrible neutral game presence.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@tcchip they already nerfed all his pokes and every move he has....every season.

[@nelomalkevain4129]

I like how the nefs do Headbutt, Aegis and Fireball indecrecly make his VS1 and VT2 better. Also as you said I don't think the character is 100% dead he's just way more balanced

[@crudnom7090]

Kinda interesting how vs1 ex headbut has armor, like he has to comit the v skill to have a wake up reversal rather than get the zoning v skill 2 and still have an invincible reversal

[@Bafael]

Yeah it has frame 3 armor plus unlike other armored moves it's unthrowable, so it's a bit like still having a reversal. Unfortunately it's unsafe on block like one, but at least not crush counter punishable anymore.

[@joqqeman]

People forget ex tackle used to be 0 ob, then it used to leave farther away ob, crmk used to be +2 ob, wakeup near aegis used to be a thing, ex hb used to whiff faster, you used to get more 50/50 left right mixup from aegis with fMP, sHP without hold used to lead to crHP combo on cc... he was nerfed plenty of times but this is the time they succeeded in making him significantly worse. Good on them if it was the intent.

[@aknight7642]

Dang Baf the comments look like a hell scape; seemingly fanned by one person, and all I can say is, it’s a mad house down here.

[@chinesemassproduction]

basically dropped by everyone in practice

[@WutTheDeuceGaming]

they should have removed the charge to his headbutt considering it's not a reversal anymore. No reason for you to have to charge it if it's only a combo tool now.

[@hughmungus99]

That's hilariously dumb, he's still a charge character. And as good as urien is in neutral and on offense he needed a hit to his defense. And this is coming from someone who mained him in 3s and plays him fairly often in sfv. He was meant to be a combo machine with strong neutral and mixups and the reversal was unnecessary

[@robertflannery4883]

Nah that’s how it was in sf3 plus it would make head butt very spamable

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@hughmungus99 what natural..his fireballs made that possible. They are also gone now.

[@hughmungus99]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 ah yes, fireballs are a character's only neutral tool

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@hughmungus99 made...that..possible..... They nerfed all the buttons....have you not played this game? He has no natural.

[@ImHoldingDownBack]

Urien finally reaped what he sowed this patch for dodging the nerf gun patch after patch and remaining top tier. Agreed that he’s still gonna be a really fun and cool character tho!

[@曉p-p7t]

So... we don't have to hear anymore that Urien ugly laugh every time he wake up?

[@dekuskrub2154]

People malding about non invul EX headbutt would HATE 3S

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

Correct, it's a very broken game. 4? 5 tournment viable characters?

[@dekuskrub2154]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 Im talking about not having a reversal headbutt dummy

[@shaunmcisaac782]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 Just 3 TBH

[@johnjohnothan5927]

Wrong

[@johnjohnothan5927]

Also wrong

[@Snakestube]

Ima let you finish but Kolin got nerfed way harder

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

Current global issues....

[@PomadaGaming]

2:54 oh cool

[@SCHeartless]

In a game with minimal reversal options, they start removing them.

[@robertgeorge4602]

Got to keep spectators attention engaged with Unga gameplay.

[@shaunmcisaac782]

What, V Reversal isn't enough for you? NEEDY.

[@SCHeartless]

@@shaunmcisaac782 a slow reversal that gets block with all the plus frames or gets option selected. So I use meter for you to punish me? If it was an a true 1 frame alpha counter then sure. Any reversal option requires meter.

[@StreetFighterWWE]

@@shaunmcisaac782 Given that he has to give up Aegis to use V-Reversal and V-Shift, which they admitted is what defines him, IS objectively pretty big. I agree with Bafael that he probably never needed it, but losing it after having it for so long DOES change how you have to play him now, since it’s one less card in your deck now. End of story.

[@The_WIll_OF_D99]

would you say this is as close to his 3rd strike version of his character? like combo tools and EX stuff and what have you.

[@PomadaGaming]

1:01 eh his partial charge combos don’t seem that much different

[@OhNoTheFace]

There are . . . a lot of gorilla tears over losing some of the unga bunga from the community lol

[@Skallva]

People arguing over the headbutt nerf while I'm confused why Urien's skin turns charcoal-gray in some parts of the vid

[@Bafael]

v-skill one effect

[@Skallva]

@@Bafael Ah, alright then. Thought it may have been some wonky lighting effects at play but that's more fair. Thanks for the response!

[@Megaman.ExE7]

*BYE BYE REVERSAL!*

[@TheMyganic]

rip

[@Capin91]

Ironically these huge changes, with big nerfs, might make me look at trying Urien again. Coming from 3S his combos in V were super boring, highly repetitive to me. Lacking Ex headbutt combos was one that bothered me a lot

[@senzen623]

So many comments that nobody will see that I'm gay for baf

[@mildsome9713]

📸

[@MrMisfortune]

Shame Urien got nerfed, I always thought he was the coolest of the top tiers in this game.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

Facts

[@robertgeorge4602]

SFV was pretty faithful with translating Urien's gameplay to SFV (unlike Gill...kind of) but 90% of the character is Aegis and Im perfectly with that. I know SFV tries to make both triggers equally viable but nothing beats the hell out of Aegis. And btw nothing wrong with that. Urien is a solid fun character its just aegis is the sauce that gets me going. The nerf to EX headbutt really hurts and Urien's neutral is a bit weaker. Except I would have liked VS1 EX Headbutt have armour on frame 1. So if Urien wants a reversal, he needs to pay meter, pick Vskill 1, and set it up. maybe that defeats the purpose of the nerf but I dont care. All I wanted was to make Aegis more ridiculous. Make it cost less time, make it active longer, idk more sauce like that. Would it make Urien oppressive as hell? Yes and thats kind of the point. Urien is a character who pops trigger and robs you blind.

[@esotericwarrior7261]

the level 2 heavy fireball generally only adds about 10 damage and has a big margin for error. it basically does nothing new for him and is basically never worth the risk unlike luke who gets a huge reward+new combo routes and move properties off it. the "spicy" corner stuff at 0:56 is something he could already do with the exact same route. the -7 aegis removes many raw aegis punishes. the removal of ex headbutt was big cause it was the only tool he had to escape pressure with gaps which it already wasnt that good at because it would consistently be option selected by better players. hes been gutted. top 15 characters to bottom 15 characters

[@multialias4591]

RIP

[@kambo954]

Cody

[@tukoijarrett9155]

these nerfs don't seem world shattering maybe enough to shift his tier but not enough to make him unviable

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

All Uriens mains have called time of death. Did you not see the other nerfs to his fireball.

[@yabbadabbindude]

I can't wait to see tier lists a year from now that exposes the crybabies

[@NeoBoneGirl]

People are so exaggerating how bad “losing” EX Headbutt is. It’s a big nerf, to be sure, but it’s not like when you didn’t have any meter, Urien was a bottom 5 character. You learn to block more, and you keep mixing people with Aegis. Life moves on.

[@Stroggoii]

It's not so much that it's a nerf but that it makes you have to play the character differently same with the Cammy changes. You don't just have to adapt to slightly better or slightly worse data on your moves, you have to adapt to not being able to use some moves at all like you've been doing so for years now.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

@@Stroggoii Well, if you’ve ever played Urien with no meter, you’ve played this “new” defense. It’s not like Cammy where nothing was stopping you from hitting 2MK in neutral, Urien had a hard requirement of 1 bar to use his reversal, so there had to end up times where you didn’t have access to it. I don’t think anyone would say Urien with no meter is a bottom 5 character, people are just upset they can’t mash as much. Either they’ll adapt or switch, and Urien is still gonna be strong either way

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@NeoBoneGirl literally the top urien mains say Capcom killed him. It's like they did to birdie.....Bison and Ken got buffs...but hay 😕 But hay mash harder.

[@RicardoPetinga]

I can tell you're not a Urien player. lol Only someone who doesn't play Urien can say people are exaggerating. "it’s not like when you didn’t have any meter, Urien was a bottom 5 character" I'm sorry, is this not a game where meter exists and is built up easily? I don't see how pretending you ever have to play for long without meter makes a good case. He could be bottom 5 and still be a fun character. Hell, I love playing with Blanka, for example, and he's bottom 5 now, right? And even he has an invincible reversal! But no, Urien went from bully to bullied. Compared to most other characters his defense is crap now and VS1 only makes it slightly less crappy. His offense is still pretty good, sure, but he needs to be able to take his turn to use it, which is harder to do when his opponents have literally nothing to fear when pressuring him.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

RIP. Nerfs in every season and then the final nail they remove a move.

[@PrinceATEye]

What did you want Urien to be buffed or something? lol

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@PrinceATEye I wanted him to be tournament viable. Now his trash.

[@zerobeat032]

as someone who never played as urien during my time with the game, I wonder why cap got rid of the invul on ex headbutt...

[@Neogears1312]

I feel like just like balrog urien didn’t really deserve nerfs. He’s been such a sick character that was handled better than any other character from design to character etc. he’s like the perfect V character and this is a shitty note to end on.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

Super fucked up to remove a move last edition.

[@Neogears1312]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 honestly yeah. People can bitch he didn’t need it for what he did all you want, if they did that to Ken or Guile they’d be convinced this was just a joke.

[@hhdrathktekken7964]

they ruined him

[@travis7843]

Not a Urien player, but I think he was definitely overnerfed. His combo changes are interesting though. Overall, I'm really not a fan of this patch.

[@acewttimer]

Here I thought I’d be coming back to SFV to play some Urien. *sees reversal nerf* Yeeaaa think I’ll just go back to kof.

[@ForeverAbroad]

Love these videos. First

[@hoodglasses8237]

Love these videos. Hate first comment scrubs.

[@MapCRimSoNCobRa117]

​i hope he only said first just to annoy people who get annoyed by people who say first cuz if so, then he got u good

[@TheShredFaster]

@@MapCRimSoNCobRa117 it doesn't really bother or annoy me, i just imagine that everyone who comments "first" on videos are like 9 years old

[@bighippmusic]

Finally this is the only character that i hate

[@Kiharu_Sunzuko]

Damn… Urien were fun to fight against even I struggled against him, Idk if I’m going to have fun fighting him anymore.. 🥺😔😔

[@bowskiaws5432]

The removal of EX Headbutt invincibility is stupid. Top tiers have it, I don't understand why Urien shouldn't. None of the buffs compensated for this, makes me a little sad.

[@emeraldmann1329]

An invincible reversal is a tool like any other. Other top tiers have fireballs, why shouldn't Karin? Because she has great tools in other places. Even without an invincible reversal, Urien has amazing pressure and mixups, great neutral, and good combos. An invincible reversal is a cherry on top, but not having it doesn't ruin him. It just means you have to take mixups where you didn't have to before.

[@AsdfAsdf-mh4zc]

well deserved nerfs

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

For real.....the idea of a black man in top five was too much in JP.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@emeraldmann1329 fine...alll characters should have a wake up dp.

[@TheFightingGentleman]

@@emeraldmann1329 he also was the only character that could combo from his reversal aside from trigger extensions or other specific characters