Basically A War Crime - The XM 29 by the Fat electrician | The Chill Zone Reacts

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• Basically A War Crime ...
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[@HistoryNerd808]

The point he was making was that most of our microchips(and semiconductors) come from China and Taiwan. There was legislation a couple years ago called the CHIPS Act to try to pull us off of that dependency but we're very much playing catch up in that sphere. I'm admittedly not an expert but we don't make much here in Texas. There's some production in the desert Southwest like Arizona and Nevada but it is not a strength of this country. Hopefully, in the near future that changes.

[@zacksilverstone7642]

From what I can tell, the facility in Texas couldn't produce enough to supply the private sector. They have the equipment, knowledge and workers to make them, but the raw ingredients is tough to get for mass production. They still make a lot, don't get me wrong here, but not to the point where it can significantly affect the chip production market. If the chip supply were to be cut off from outside America because of war, then there's not a whole lot they can do on that front.

[@jameshunt9208]

Indeed

[@tastaz7]

It's slowly changing. In Arizona we have the biggest construction site in North America building a chip factory for tsmc

[@bogustoast22none25]

@@zacksilverstone7642well that’s what wartime economy is about, it stops being primarily about profit and starts being about getting it, so it will get got.

[@buddyburroughs6072]

I'll also point out this was being developed in the mid to late 2000's before said legislation.

[@oneandy2]

I mean honestly... the XM25 is basically a bolt-gun from Warhammer 40k

[@brilobox2]

Except not at all because its not designed or intended to detonate inside an enemy.

[@usernamealreadytaken9330]

Just missing a self-propelled part

[@oneandy2]

@@brilobox2 Except it can easily be made to by virtue of the programmable smart grenades. Did you watch the video? They talked about this.

[@rmartinson19]

This video killed me. To learn that Boltguns from Warhammer 40k are actually real, only to immediately have my dreams crushed by the knowledge that their very existence is illegal... 😮‍💨 Even the caliber is pretty much lore-accurate. a 20mm round is literally less than 1mm off from the .75 caliber bolt rounds the Astartes use.

[@Kalebfenoir]

They made a Bolter, and then remembered "oh shit. We made a RULE about this. We can't use this." Of course the Emperor digs this design out after the Long Night: Geneva can't object when it got taken over by radioactive supermutant bikers 200 years ago. Lol

[@bulldowozer5858]

-They may have crushed your dreams with legislation, but you can crush their Legislators with

[@hunterwolf5482]

A bullet has a 50/50 chance on killing you unless you got shot on a vital organ. AN Explosive bullet means you want something dead and their hearts and minds splattered on a wall.

[@manictiger]

​@@Kalebfenoir Pretty sure the Geneva convention is extremely buried information from pre Dark Age of Technology. Some tech priest is going to have to dust off a 1992 IBM and some floppy discs with the Encarta Encyclopedia on them to learn about it, except none of the magnetic storage will work, and they'll have to pull out some weird quantum sensor tech to find out they can't recover anything, not even how to start the machine from the rotted out BIOS chip.

[@AlbertoMartinez765]

FFFFFFFuuuucccc## You are right that things a BOLTER!!!

[@robashley8216]

Remember, the Geneva convention is more of a guideline than actual rules. Like the pirate code

[@Ozymandias2x]

The Geneva Suggestions (and sometimes The Geneva Checklist)

[@brianfite4740]

​found the Canadian?

[@user-zp8kj2cl9g]

Cringe

[@Altair1473]

This one is not on the Geneva checklist neither the Hague checklist

[@Altair1473]

expanding bullet is on the Hague checklist for sure but it said nothing about exploding bullet

[@Blackhart-7]

... I hate how I'm still thinking about cheese 🤣

[@luiscuellar685]

Government cheese?

[@xxcl0n3xx]

OICW: Oops I Committed a Warcrime

[@Yuki_Ika7]

So in other words a typical day of a Canadian at war

[@grimalkin6676]

So a normal grenade is thrown, hence not a bullet, so not an exploding bullet and thus not a warcrime. As for grenade launchers (like the mk19 belt fed grenade machinegun someone in another comment mentioned) the really only reason they are not war crimes is because they explode on impact, they are not designed to penetrate the body first and then detonate inside the body, hence not an exploding bullet.

[@Altair1473]

The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions. The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them

[@Altair1473]

Well using expanding bullet is war crime but exploding bullet isn't

[@Zetawytte1777]

​@@Altair1473 hey, smart guy define explosion.

[@cheeseninja1115]

15:16 while the US is a leader in *high end* computer chip manufacturing and design from Intel, Texas Instruments, and Raytheon. Smart ammunition often use lower processing chips to function, as even the DoD don't want to be shooting a RTX4090 every time they fire something off. Most of these mid-level chips come out of Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, and China. Only recently has the US put its focus in bringing these lower end, but necessary chip manufacturing to the US. Currently we have 4 Fabs under construction, one being run by TSMC themselves.

[@-ragingpotato-937]

Thats wrong too, the US isn't a leader in any chip manufacturing. They're a leader in chip design, which are then manufactured in Taiwan, South Korea, etc.

[@cheeseninja1115]

@-ragingpotato-937 What? The US is not the biggest, but it is still a leader in manufacturing. Manufacturing anywhere from 13%-19% of semiconductors depending on the study. That is still a large chunk of manufacturing. Hence why I said they were a leader but not the biggest.

[@Yuki_Ika7]

Your comment is kinda funny because Raytheon technologies is now going by the name RTX lol

[@Altair1473]

Well chips isn't the biggest problem, the high explosive it need would be a bigger one

[@mignik01]

@-ragingpotato-937 last I checked they produced about 40-45 percent of all chips by value. Even though it only produces 13% by volume. Which means they are high end chips.

[@LordRaine]

The best part is that, eventually, materials science will advance to the point where we can make a real life boltor from Warhammer 40k that legally meets all the definitions of ordinance but is still most definitely just a SAW yeeting micro-grenades out of a box mag. Big enough to be legal, but light enough to still be practical as a primary weapon. And when that day comes, somebody is going to get away with something really stupid until the rules get re-written. Because it's never a war crime the first time.

[@phoenixx913]

What do you want to bet we still have all those XM25s in storage somewhere just waiting for the day those rules go out the window.

[@ivorprivatamlug4648]

@@phoenixx913 kinda funny how they let a german company build the Warcrime gun

[@anadaere6861]

@@ivorprivatamlug4648 Give it to the Germans to create a weapon that will be fun for the 1st time use

[@manictiger]

I think we'll probably wind up bypassing some of these war conventions with energy weapons. Is it considered "ordinance" if it sprays photons and strings of molten plasma-steel all over the place? What if it microwaves everyone in the building, is that in any of the conventions? What if an AI is the one doing it? We're going to have to make new rules, because things are probably going to get really savage.

[@jackhammertwo1]

And the funny thing about this is, after the USA Caned the Project,South Korea decided to make their own, for future reference,look Up S&T Daewoo K11.

[@okairo]

I always saw the Geneva Convention as a guidebook of 'Don't do these things if you don't want others to do them to you' kind of book. Nice to see we've outlawed Bolters from 40k, that makes me sad. Maybe one day someone will go "Fuck it, we're making the boom boom bullets!"

[@ForgottenHonor0]

Stabbing someone with a piece of luggage is the most Marine thing I've ever heard, I swear to god...

[@RagingRaygun]

My take away was that the only reason we dont have man portable laser guns yet is because of the Geneva convention.

[@nadjasunflower1387]

no...the reason shoulder fired lasers aren't an option is due to war practicality. a bullet enters the human body and causes hemoraging damage. hits bones, displaces them, tearing and cutting internals. so to evacuate that soldier, requires at least 2 more soldiers. ( hit one, remove 3 from battlefield ) all a laser is going to do is cauterize the wound it makes, rendering that person still able to fight ( although probably in major discomfort ) so hit 1 removed none. Meaning unless you hit the heart, and cause it to cease functioning, a ' laser rifle ' is an extreme waste of money to develope, and not practical for battlefield tactics in an anti-personnel setting. ( too many movies and video games continuing to show this as a viable weapon )

[@CruelestChris]

​@nadjasunflower1387 Actually it's more to do with humans being mostly water, which has ten times the specific heat capacity of steel. So a laser that will melt through a metal plate in seconds will make you go "ow."

[@jameshunt9208]

"Thats a full infant!" Right measurements. 😂

[@phoenixx913]

Knowing that the military is going to do military things I'll bet we still have all the XM25s that were made and they're just in storage somewhere waiting for the day all those rules go out the window. Also you could technically bypass the rules by simply making a new version of the XM25 and having it shoot a grenade that is heavy enough to bypass the laws in question.

[@wizzy_tekken]

This gun needs to be in Robocop Rogue City for RoboCop to use.

[@Relaxedplaythroughs]

They violated this again with the AA-12 and its grenade rounds

[@CruelestChris]

So the reality here is HK apparently didn't mind working on small explosive rounds with the US for 30 years before suddenly deciding they were illegal according to a treaty almost no parties to which still exist, and which Germany and the US are both not parties to. I feel more like they wanted out of the contract because they figured it was about to be canned (since the evaluations from the front were along the lines of "a bit big for what it does and OK when it doesn't break" and SAGM was right around the corner) and realised they could stiff Alliant for the prototypes by claiming they'd suddenly grown a conscience.

[@maeckknox6535]

Fun Fact Texas instruments makes the chips for the JAVELIN Missiles so they already have military contracts.

[@iron_side5674]

We´re never gonna have a Boltgun with THAT attitude.

[@pyro1047]

The "Rule" is specifically banning bullets designed to "Excessively or unnecessarily wound" like explosive, incendiary, expanding/hollow-point, etc. The cutoff is any "anti-personnel" fired projectile weighing less than 400g with these properties is considered a "bullet", banning them from use against personnel. 400g was chosen because that was the weight of the lightest artillery/cannon shell at the time. Keep in mind 400g is just for the weight of the projectile shot, not the whole cartridge. It's where the dumb myth ".50 cals are anti-material rifles and illegal to shoot people with, so aim for the equipment, like belt buckles lol" comes from. The US recoiless rifles in the early cold war measured their range/drop with a .50 cal spotting rifle strapped to it that fired a 12.7mm spotting round with a small amount of explosive to pop and "spot"; and troops got told not to shoot people with the spotting rifle. This has been morphed and stupidly spread even by people in the military as "The .50 is illegal when used against people". 20mm HE, HEI, I, and SAPHEI would be too; but everyone gets away with it clsiming "it's an anti-aircraft weapon", "It's an Anti-vehicle weapon", etc. So no one cares. IIRC the US isn't even a signatory so could use these rounds anyways, ther might be a U.N. rule that still bans us. But after I learned the U.N. got caught having 9yr olds blow their peacekeepers for them to get food, I haven't cared what they thought. The morons elected China to lead the human rights board too, they're corrupt as hell and just as complacent in evil as those they sanction. Only reason the US is still dealing with the U.N.s BS is the rules were made making us and the 4 other major allies of WWII the top dogs with more important/stronger votes.

[@BryanW-bp3le]

America actually used to be the main source of microchips in the world before manufacturing was mostly sent over seas to Taiwan, Japan, etc, which made it much cheaper to produce.

[@genericscottishchannel1603]

ya better be watching paul bunyan soon, also 400 grams is a bit of a weird minimum requirement also you're thinking of david tennant you missed a bit at the end

[@johnathancoker8671]

epic idea, ok hear me out. up it to a traditional 40mm and keep all the fancy optics and airburst ability, OR make the nades out of something unnessisarily heavy so it just barely beats the 400 gram mark? boom welp its ordinance now also also MAYBE just MAYBE a rule made like 2 centuries ago is no longer relevent amidst modern battlefield tech ?

[@malachai1381]

You should check out his video on that one time Britain dunked on the Luftwaffe in a twin engine pinewood derby plane.

[@richardmyhan3369]

The god emperor doesn't care about Geneva or her conventions. Bolters for everyone. 😂😂

[@usernamealreadytaken9330]

US military technically got a space gun to hunt alien out of that program.

[@nagual1992]

Yo, low key love the Gun Nut Arc you’re on. More please.

[@brothersgt.grauwolff6716]

it's only a Warcrime the First Time after that it become's a Satatistic

[@papercitadel4221]

Yo there is probably a warehouse full of those things somewhere

[@ryantannar5301]

literal warhammer 40k boltgun. we were THIS close

[@wwhite2958]

I could just imagine someone forgetting to switch off grenades when inside or when near hvts that need to be alive

[@kenvaill300]

I burst out laughing at Kronk

[@emeraldhawk5148]

I look at this and instantly think "is that the cut rifle from half-life 2 beta?"

[@mrlizardtx]

To go back a bit, check out death rays and carrots.

[@releasethekraken5039]

1:28 sorry dude, that's an XM8. Another supposed replacement for the M4 that ultimately went nowhere. To my knowledge there is no game where the OICW is depicted. Except maybe the Half-Life 2 beta where it got cut and replaced with the combine pulse rifle

[@TheChillzoneX]

You're Wright It's the wrong picture. But 2001s Ghost Recon does have an xm29. Just didn't bother installing my old cd copy

[@releasethekraken5039]

@@TheChillzoneX at least i was half right then lol. Fun fact about those smart grenades by the way: because there are so many electronics and microchips crammed into the projectile it leaves little room for the actual explosive filler, causing problems in the lethality of the grenades After they salvaged the OICW into the XM25 they upped the caliber from 20mm to 25mm, true. But it didnt make much of a difference. Especially when a standard 40mm M203 shoots a grenade that's almost twice as big

[@Teralord19]

In delta force land warriors there is an xm29 oicw that is named the oicw land warrior.

[@kabob0077]

007 Nightfire has it, Soldner: Secret Wars has it, the original Far Cry has it, Tactical Ops: Assault on Terror has it, Soldier of Fortune 2 has it, Chaser has it (and dear God they butchered it, it looks like a Bolter), Delta Force: Land Warrior has it, R6 Lockdown has it, The Punisher has it, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 (PSP) has it. I'm sure there's more games that have it

[@phoenixx913]

It's actually depicted in more games then you'd think, I can think of like 7 games that has it in it including 007 nightfire.

[@Old_Man_Pool]

Bolters!!

[@KurtisMiel-ys1md]

We have a zero turn fighter jet it's cold enough 22 Raptor😂

[@KurtisMiel-ys1md]

Ralph's round is what that was supposed to say but my phone is fucking stupid and the screen is broken so I can't type and I have to talk into the damn thing😂

[@victoroduarte]

Good thing Aliens didn't sign the Geneva Convention

[@cthomaspeasant3059]

Oh boy, wait till he sees the video on World War Tree

[@FairyFarron]

I mean the vehicle I operated fired 25mm and that's fine, we just aren't supposed to shoot directly at people. Not that anyone cares about that

[@mikepurvis4339]

Abandoned can you say black budget. We have lasers that can shoot beyond the horizon.

[@corryburton9834]

Nice bass in the back ground i play guitar

[@dudeslayer4505]

They made a fucking boltgun lol

[@gordonpromish9218]

tFE is one h3!! of a good teacher.

[@arnoldwinkler395]

Fat Electrician's video Marines vs. A.I.

[@eddy9615]

Ok

[@GandalfGreyWizard]

Wait,if the limit is 400g then that means a 40mm is a illegal cus they weight around 350-370g. . .maybe becasue they explode on impact they arent a warcrime?

[@PhycoKrusk]

The OICW: It's been a war crime the whole time! We finally found an _actual_ war crime stick.

[@KurtisMiel-ys1md]

Or maybe because one is being heated

[@Comfy_Fox]

❤

[@nerf2752]

@TheChillzoneX is your friend fighting Hamas?

[@KurtisMiel-ys1md]

Or maybe it is because one is being thrown by you and want to be thrown by a propellant😮

[@turkeyman1123]

12:55 18 pounds? That's gotta be twins at least!

[@xaderalert]

Somewhere between large twins and tiny triplets

[@hefttefla4372]

So heckler does actually do coke

[@daboikeyle1093]

I really, REALLY, want to see this man on the Unsubscribe podcast for some reason

[@thesirvivalteam08]

Hey, fat electrician made a new video

[@KurtisMiel-ys1md]

Also you got the 40 Mike Mike so-called grenade launcher but it can be a gun at close range but it won't explode he'll just knock a hole in a mother fucker also technically I mean cannons fire a bullet we just called them shells artillery but it's still a damn bullet that explodes if you get hit directly with it it's a bullet that wants again explodes does it really matter that it's 100 mm or 105 mm or 120 mm or 155 mm for God forbid like back in the day of 16 in gun

[@Archangel1862]

Than how is the M242 not a war crime

[@gordonpromish9218]

man, YT is getting stupid about what words one may and may not use.

[@Silverized84]

we need something better than the m16... BOLTERS BROTHERS!

[@KurtisMiel-ys1md]

We've had explosive rounds for a long time and still use them four a 50 BMG they're called a Ralph is found

[@desertdude540]

Raufoss is legal because it's intended for anti-materiel use, not anti-personnel use. Shooting people with explosive bullets is bad but shooting, say, a radar unit with explosive bullets is a-okay because, despite the teachings of the Adeptus Mechanicus, machines aren't people.

[@KurtisMiel-ys1md]

Actually more like if you played Mom Warfare 2 it's the exact gun well the real version that they made and tested 20 mm or 25 mm as what it became to be yeah y'all need to do more research if you want to talk about guns cuz technically it was a gun and not necessarily a rifle although it was rifled I want a true rifle that may be confusing to most y'all if not all y'all😂

[@ryantannar5301]

The US does make microchips, and good ones too, but we cannot make them in even close to the amount China and Taiwan can. We are fine right now, but if we were at war our industry can't keep up on the chips. It's been identified as one of the single largest risks to US national security. The US is currently putting in a MASSIVE effort to become the top microchip producer, but it's going to be a bit. There's an absolutely massive chip plant being built in my city and the local colleges are all offering free classes on chip manufacturing. It's a joint effort with a Taiwanese company.

[@willyvereb]

This is an amusing video but absolutely factually wrong. It may make more sense for you, in Denmark, that the St. Petersburg Convention bans explosive rounds. Nordic countries are pretty much the only countries who still hold themselves to this convention. Even then they apply it selectively (40mm grenade launchers are cool because for them it isn't a gun, .50Cal Raufoss is fine so long you don't aim at people, etc). The USA... never signed the St. Petersburg Convention. Which makes sense as it's an European treaty. In addition the letter of the rule calls for "fulminating" rounds which includes hollowpoints or any bullet which shatters on impact (that pretty much includes any 5.56mm NATO ball ammo). The former got reinforced in the early 20th century when the British wanted their dum-dum bullets (softpoints, similar to hollowpoints) made legal. It got denied and as such there is a precedent against using hollowpoints in military (then again not many armies actually cared about this after WW2 ended). And as I said the 5.56mm NATO, the most common military round used across the world, does technically violate the St. Petersburg Convention... but nobody gives a damn. XM25 got shelved because it'd have been extra money and if the US Army hates something is to actually pay for the guns they spend millions to develop. Kind of weird but that's how the US procurement works. Spend millions on R&D and then promptly shelf the project.

[@PBRatLord]

Quick reminder that while grenade launchers can be illegal, direct impacting infantry with a 105mm chemical round from a tank is perfectly legal. War crimes have grown to include so much weird shit. At the end of the day you're still taking human life, but apparently it's more humane to clip a man with a bullet and have him suffer for hours in the muck than to turn him to mist in a second. What odd creatures we are lmao

[@CruelestChris]

There is no such round.

[@leechowning2712]

TI, Intel, and Sony are all based in Taiwan and Japan, which would be problematic in a war with China. Yes, they are American companies, but not actually making them here.

[@user-zp8kj2cl9g]

I know is a joke, but I really don't like how people are using the term "war crime" now days. It's very cringe, like the PTSD and rape jokes. It just exudes naive, privileged, first-world spoiled kid, y'know?

[@CruelestChris]

Oh nooooooo