Batman’s War On Terror: Nolan and Post 9/11 America

[@DrthStarkiller2]

joker is a disfigured iraq vet who was living in the narrows c during the fear toxin incident (reddit theory i subscribe to)

[@OzymandiasV2]

same. its a stretch for some parts but honestly with the whole War on Terror similarities i think its a great and not heavy handed explanation for Jokers backstory

[@La-ilaha-illa-Lenin]

W

[@ciro9951]

Hmmm that would explain why he was so good at carrying out his schemes it was almost as if he did it with…military precision

[@ShinigamiInuyasha777]

Are we ignore that they cast an irishman as a terrorist?

[@Spaceghostflocko]

That’s just as bad as if they were to cast an Arab actor as a terrorist

[@OzymandiasV2]

the trilogy is so odd in this lense bc you have actual gritty real world parallels and then you have shit like that or an orphan daughter of a terrorist from the middle east wanting to nuke Gotham

[@popdop0074]

​@@OzymandiasV2Exactly, that's why this was never grounded batman, it was always just blockbuster batman. I love the Nolan films but the moral messaging of the story (from the hero's perspective) is just lying to the public about true hypocrisies than facing them from a sociological angle like Matt Reeves is doing. The fact Batman is a billionaire and doesn't use that at all in any way than dressing up like an SAS operative and beating mentally ill people is insane. Dark knight series is liberal propaganda cringe 😵‍💫😢 Unless... If you view the film as an analysis on the hypocrisies of such systems. But then why is Joker the villain? He is completely right and in an actual active situation w the two boats, someone almost guaranteed would've pressed the button on either side. The natural conclusion of the Nolan trilogy is Matt Reeves' trilogy

[@hibernian797]

Liam neeson player an Ira member aswell

[@Comicbroe405]

​@@popdop0074 Based.

[@hassankhan-jg1dx]

Osama Bin Ladin's rhetoric framing himself as an anti-imperialist is quite ironic given that he was an agent and beneficiary of American imperialism during his time in the Soviet-Afghan war.

[@OzymandiasV2]

“this film is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters” - Rambo 3

[@hassankhan-jg1dx]

@@OzymandiasV2 lmao!

[@onemoreminute0543]

"Well that didn't age well..."​@@OzymandiasV2

[@shariqhasan6220]

I pretty sure he viewed the Afghan Struggle against the Soviets as a noble cause. But it was the American involvement in the Middle East especially the Gulf War and Iran-Iraq conflict is what he took issue with.

[@dianhyouvideo]

False, the fact he attacked U S A shows he is not loyal to anyone other than Allah the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and the Muslim ummah.

[@schkullington]

Hehehe....what if the joker .... Was called the jerker.....just a view in to my dark reality

[@OzymandiasV2]

what if the jonkler WAS serious???

[@lorenzobiondijimenez6138]

MAN would still win

[@cloudbloom]

now yuo see......

[@handsomesquidward5160]

Jonkler

[@Matasuh]

What if.. he was called the stroker...

[@HungNguyen-sy4oz]

Ledger Joker being a vet with special forces or even covert op skill level is of my favorite theories that makes sense and is my headcannon for the Nolan joker.

[@jackfrost2332]

bro wasnt joking about this video💀

[@OzymandiasV2]

another regime schizo essay

[@Juegosesplatino]

The voice acting of obama is much better than the italian american accent you did on your other video lol

[@lukehyndman3998]

Awesome video. Most fresh takes and analysis on the dark knight trilogy I've ever heard

[@anxhelovucinaj1576]

To be fair to dark knight rises's robin he had a small arc of being disgusted with how the police system worked,especially with how he tells Gordon at the end of the movie how he can't stand the injustice anymore and so he resigns and takes on batman's mantle. Other than that,great video!

[@OzymandiasV2]

Yeah but then again felt like we barely had time with him. I think a better more subtle teaser would be him making a homemade Nightwing costume. Wouldve made more sense for his age and to not be a sidekick over being like “heh this police officer? his name is ROBIN 😏 and he finds the batcave”

[@cmaslan]

​@@OzymandiasV2 it's still there. *to this day* kzbin.infoUgkxtao8oYDzTu-6Z_HGtpseehtEDlWbLt1-?si=vRbCWPMa__Kc-EsT

[@ektran4205]

@@OzymandiasV2 well nolan was burnt out on the franchise during pre production of TDKR

[@JB-fp3fb]

@@ektran4205 Dang. Poor guy. Sucks he was forced to do that.

[@pyry1948]

Joker is also armed with a Smith & Wesson M76 SMG, a weapon designed specifically for Special Forces operatives after the U.S. could not obtain more Swedish M/45 Carl Gustav SMGs.

[@DarkReaper12]

Insightful video. Have one for the algorithm.

[@OzymandiasV2]

thank you! helps a lot 🙏

[@brianmichael7102]

Brilliant critique and thank you for fighting the good fight against the copyright machine

[@valmid5069]

The Dark Knight would be ranked as one of best movies of the century whereas it brought forth thought-provoking questions on how the world, or *society* works in the era where politics of post 9/11 are still frequently discussed with human morality

[@callmejacob3234]

Damn even terrorists fear Batman that's wild.

[@OzymandiasV2]

technically all of his rogue gallery are terrorists but igwym 🤣

[@callmejacob3234]

@@OzymandiasV2 You make a good point.

[@Antcubi]

Joker probably wasn't in Iraq i'd say he was CIA who was trained in taking down countries e.g someone who would go into Libya and take down Gaddafi. But he probably got caught presumed dead also would make sense why he would say he's an agent of chaos

[@OzymandiasV2]

yeah i think in general he definitely has former high level training/ops under his belt. The Iraq line kind of stuck out to me and people base the theory around it among other things. i wouldnt disagree with this take though

[@mr.o8539]

That would explain his scars

[@mohamedaityoussef9965]

11:36 nightwing's been looksmaxxing

[@Sleepycollegestudent]

Keep doing your thing brother, solid vid

[@Will-bn9km]

Intro is absolutely crazy

[@ThePuzzledPangolin]

I very much enjoyed this essay! I've recently started viewing media trying to understand the context in which they were born. I'm currently working on an essay about how Optimus in the Bayverse is basically !S!S. It's encouraging to see that this side of KZbin is already established.

[@iaskelad]

Thank you for giving me Another reason to rewatch the trilogy with a new perspective

[@OzymandiasV2]

no problem!

[@josephgraham1540]

Great vid, wish more people would make stuff like this, I never do this but I’m subscribing after only seeing this vid

[@snobhobbitmarx1767]

I really like your videos, but I think you're wrong with this analysis. Batman, in this triology, is the most radical fighter of the liberal, capitalist order. He fights the three real enemies of the Western bourgeois states. These are 1. fascism. Raz al Ghul lives in seclusion as a representative of a ‘traditional’ order in a militant brotherhood. He uses fear gas (hatred and hatred) to destroy the ‘degenerated’ modernity (the metropolis of Gotham). I'm only reminded of the rant Raz makes about the ‘decadent’ metropolises. 2. nihilism. The joker is the Edgelord/Incel who lambasts the administration of the bourgeois state with the whole ‘coin toss’ rhetoric. 3. bolshevism. Or what liberal intellectuals imagine bolshevism to be. Brutal power-hungry populists who want to erode and turn everything upside down. And there is also a nice horseshoe theory. Bolshevists would make pacts with fascists. Shown here by Bane and the daughter of Raz al Ghul. In the end, fascists and bolshevists are the same, they simply want to destroy the modern, liberal state. Batman is not a hero but an elite soldier outside parliamentary control who needs no authorisation to use mass surveillance and violence. And yet he remains completely sweet and pacifist and doesn't want to kill anyone.

[@OzymandiasV2]

this isnt really a huge contrast with what i said. the Batman/Osama parallel was just a joke ive made tons of times but i think the in universe perception of Batman having a ton of power to enforce his code is interesting. I agree with this comment though of each villains assessments and how theyre framed, i just think it falls apart in Rises. Sure working class revolutions can still be bad (nazi germany) but the way its framed with everything else that was built up is bleh. Batman crossed his lines (short of killing Joker but one can argue Batman killed Ra’s and Joker through negligence/“refusal to save”) and was rightfully called out by Lucius and the audience

[@themadtitan7603]

What do you think Two-Face represents?

[@hhh-kn5yn]

Very good video, compact and informative very good take on how all this superhero cinema is, in a very political way of thinking about a war against the middle east or just terrorism on parallel, iron man 2008 also deals with this heavily, literally showing middle eastern characters and tony stark even running a ballistic demonstration in afghanistan good vid 👍🏻

[@OzymandiasV2]

thank you! yeah thats why towards the end i say it wouldve been better to go the tony stark route with bane. Bane was established to be a super cool strong smart villain to just end up as a henchman in a weirdly stereotypical terrorist plot twist

[@themadtitan7603]

@hhh-kn5yn I don't intend to undermine your point by nitpicking but most of the characters shown in Ironman, whether it's Yinsen, members of the Ten Rings (except for maybe one character), or the residents of Gulmira, are Afghan; which is between Central & South Asia, not the Middle East.

[@Gordon.Pinkerton]

I'm surprised that you didn’t draw parallels between Batman kidnapping Lau from Hong Kong before returning him to Gotham and the USA's practice of extraordinary rendition

[@AdiKhan-kv6lx]

No wonder this joker was so based

[@nashihm925]

The madlad actually made it. This is awesome.

[@OzymandiasV2]

it was making me toss and turn at night ive had this idea since a few months ago haha

[@mbrproductions160]

IS Joker in the thumbnail is crazy

[@Elch-max]

I don't think they made any mistakes. I think these films were very intentionally made to guide popular culture around power and authority

[@OzymandiasV2]

yeah Nolan really came off like he was backtracking. They were obviously all very political whether consciously or subconsciously

[@catpurrito5586]

joker put on his bandanna and does a little terror

[@cloudbloom]

I saw Batman Begins 8 times in the theater when it came out. Only movie i really wanted to see multiple times in a theater, it was such a cool take on the superhero genre. Btw how the hell are you mispronouncing "Ra's al Ghul" when they say it clearly in the movies lol

[@OzymandiasV2]

“raysh” is the pronunciation in the animated stuff and the arkham games. arabic speakers say every version is wrong tho lol (which is fair)

[@cloudbloom]

@@OzymandiasV2 granted I'm an absolute fucking reetard so I have no idea how it should be pronounced, I probably shouldn't have said anything about it lol

[@Knightfall1012]

It’s actually a very well known fact amongst Batman fans that Batman Begins got the name pronunciation totally wrong. Lol nothing to beat yourself up about tho.

[@husseinrose4883]

​@OzymandiasV2 the best way to pronounce it is like the word ross

[@booba-fan]

racial ghoul

[@thomashoban2430]

There is a lot of political nuance to the Dark Knight Rises. Nolan comments aside, the movie is an adaptation of A Tale of Two Cities, which will inherently have tones critical of leftism. Bane perfectly represents the French Revolution and Reign of Terror portion of French history. Despite the tyranny and violence that Maximilien Robespierre and other French revolutionaries had, they did seize on systemic failures that were true. And the film does a great job addressing those points.

[@OzymandiasV2]

i think the first 2/3rds is good for those critiques but i think they shouldve just had Bane be the big bad on his own with no talia/ra’s callback. i dont mind well written and realistic critiques on the left but it felt like such cheap payoff and resolution imo. Didnt know about A Tale of Two Cities though! Ill check it out! Thanks for the write up and support🙏

[@SeasideDetective2]

I hate the idea that fictional movies - and comic book movies in particular - should "reflect" real-world politics. This not only embarrassingly dates films, but violates Immanuel Kant's (an 18th-century German who is considered the father of modern philosophy) principle that art imitates not reality but the imaginative person's conception thereof, which has been more or less the polestar for most fiction since the Gothic and Romantic movements of the 19th century. And we have proof that the opposite approach just doesn't work. The World War II propaganda in 1940s entertainment is downright cringe-worthy today, and the War on Terror overtones in some of the entertainments from two decades ago was ham-handed as well. It all felt like sermonizing rather than escapism. I think social satire is at its best when it's presented in a surreal, sometimes even silly way. Not only is it not boring then, but it challenges both the intellect and the mainstream's (whatever that means) sensibilities about what is socially acceptable. Some people have argued that we got a properly satirical Batman story (relatively) long ago, and that was BATMAN RETURNS. While Tim Burton never seems to delve into politics, religion, ethnic studies, or other serious issues, he is in fact capable of commenting on those issues in that special, imaginative way that is purely his. And BATMAN RETURNS strikes me as remarkably prescient about the style and character of today's pseudo-populist political fervor in America, right down to some eerie parallels to the MAGA movement. When the Penguin, for example, delivers a self-righteous speech about "crazed clowns" and "catwomen," it's easy to swap those for Middle Eastern terrorists and illegal Mexican immigrants (or whoever might be the boogeymen of a particular era) as analogies reflecting xenophobia, as well as hatred for "freaks" or those perceived as outsiders. In fact, I'm fond of arguing that BATMAN RETURNS, despite being viewed by many as a pseudo-1940s Gothic fantasy, is actually at its most fantastic when the citizens of Gotham City eventually reject the Penguin for being a barbaric jerk. In real life - or at least the real life of today - they would have turned him into a sort of warped messiah!

[@sahilhossian8212]

Lore of Batman’s War On Terror: Nolan and Post 9/11 America momentum 100

[@OzymandiasV2]

people really thought i was joking about making this vid. they underestimated my obsessions

[@J_o_h_n_n_1_e]

The difference is that Batman shut his unethical, mass surveillance program down, whereas Bush didn't. It was then continued by Obama, Trump, and Biden (and probably Trump yet again.)

[@anti-fire1312]

Lil Bill covered this a bit but you brought your own nuance that makes the video your own.

[@OzymandiasV2]

how does he keep beating me to the punch whats the vid im interested

[@DRAGONBLOODX]

link?

[@anti-fire1312]

@@OzymandiasV2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5LLhKRjZ7Zkg9E and kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2TPn2l-nq6doqc

[@armanimartinez8105]

Are we gonna get a video on the joker films ? I love how those movies bring out discussions both wrong and right. It’s even crazier how in the first film we have a low body count and everyone freaked out…. But in the sequel domestic terrorism 10-20 deaths are ignored for the sensationalism both in the film and our real world.

[@OzymandiasV2]

havent watched 2 and dont plan to but check out my Male Rage/Class Conscious video! i go in depth about Joker 1. you make a good point about the sequel though

[@j.r.6627]

Fascinating. I think it was written a certain way and then they were like aww shit too on the nose?? Let’s just retreat to classic story tropes. Play it safe. Even tie it all back full circle. While still implying but yeah

[@j.r.6627]

Or it was the Illuminati !!! They forced it to be stupid. They even took a sacrifice.!!!

[@OzymandiasV2]

yeah nolan saying the movies arent political is either a huge misspeak of him saying its not biased* or he just completely wanted to backtrack

[@RaveInHell6030]

It’s well known that Liam neeson only got the roll because he set out to only play Chinese people and Muslims when he became an actor, that’s how he got his only two rolls: this and qui gon Jin

[@Ian_Hawke]

very good observation on this trilogy! I would have never thought of these things on my own lol. It makes so much sense now how all three antagonists want to blow up Gotham😆

[@OzymandiasV2]

thank you! at least Joker had some creativity haha! i think unfortunately Heaths untimely passing hamstringed them

[@doof6416]

I’d love to know your take on the Reevesverse

[@OzymandiasV2]

it still has time to finish its run but the riddler in this one is kinda of like a zodiac killer mixed with Ted K. I would say he was more of an anti state/corruption radical at first but his flooding of Gotham to restart gave off Ted K vibes. Interested to see what the sequels subject matter is about

[@deathmetal271]

Maybe The Penguin series can be used as a supplement?

[@bclr6843]

Dark knight rises is just as good as any other Batman movie out there. People didn’t start ripping on it till people started calling it a right wing movie. It’s also the most Batman movie of the three to me and the least apologetic of the three for being a comic book, super hero movie

[@Darthbucket007]

So what would scarecrow represent 🤔 or is he just more of a thematic character than a real world parallel

[@aniverse_574]

' The Batman ' movie commented upon same political themes in a better way

[@T--------]

this is definitely making me look at rises in a bit of a worse light haha, it really is like they realized "hey isn't this guy Bane kinda starting to make a lot of sense?" so they nerf him by making the nuke blow up in a few months no matter what, on top of that he keeps this from the people of Gotham he's supposed to want to help in their rebellion, of course it's because later we find his and Talia's motivation is just "yeah we gotta genocide Gotham, there's no other option to save it" (which was already a silly motivation in begins imo, but it was fine there as the nuance of that story was more in the exploration of Bruce's characters than the villain) it's all ultimately very black and white, and of course it's especially disappointing in contrast to Joker in tdk. I still like it though, the very over the top setpieces are a blast if nothing else lol

[@OzymandiasV2]

yeah its v much still an action superhero movie but i feel like they couldve done way better critiquing rebellions gone wrong. Like i said what happens after? Is property returned? A whole class war happened but the epilogue is like “oh we got rid of the DENT act and we like batman again”. People are 100% going to try to copy batman even after his martyrdom including CopRobin. Just a very odd child of the trilogy

[@grandcanyon-d4d]

Osama was trained by the CIA lol

[@VogtTD]

The idea that this hasn’t been discussed is absurd.

[@OzymandiasV2]

theres bits and pieces but i havent seen a full body of work on it yet which is why i made it but yeah some crazy connections 😭

[@csabaszabo6859]

Can you tell me what remix of HOME's Resonance you used at the beginning of the video?

[@OzymandiasV2]

not allowed x resonance x oblivion by grimes im pretty sure

[@csabaszabo6859]

@@OzymandiasV2 thank you very much :)

[@dr.s8972]

The Dark Knight Rises is underrated. Even though many people describe it as a right-wing film, To my mind it is the only Batman film that takes the time to make the Batman myth something other than fascist. In the film Bruce loses his money and moves past his "might makes right" pursuit once the struggle is over. In the film, Bruce rediscovers the value of life and begins to imagine again a life beyond Batman. He chooses not to surrender to the death instinct, and the desire to defeat an enemy but rather to save the city. Most Batman media cannot imagine a life for Bruce Wayne after Batman. In most media, Bruce is Batman until he dies knowing that he didn't make a substantial difference in Gotham. Fascists cannot imagine a world after the war. This is a Batman who can.

[@OzymandiasV2]

in my research i saw a lot of people on reddit or other spaces along with that interview mention it being right wing. i dont think its RW per se but i think its less morally grey towards justice than its predecessors. Batman/Bruce definitely has hit character arc especially with the retirement ending but like I (and many others) mention, everything is kind of neatly wrapped up with “well the status quo is back but its good this time!”. The equivalent of the Bolshevik revolution basically happened in Gotham but we get a scene of all the major characters getting happy endings and Batmans image being redeemed

[@visabf6573]

amazing video as always ozy

[@OzymandiasV2]

glad you enjoyed it!

[@ryandozier8053]

2:05 no shot you missed that in the research, that’s exactly why he wasn’t cast with a “foreign face,” directly tied to Goyer’s statement

[@OzymandiasV2]

i didnt find anything directly saying that was the reason but most likely thats why Neeson was cast. Ra’s is also white in the Arrow show and Talia and Bane are straight up written to be middle eastern despite both being white. At least Neeson in begins has some leeway and theres a fakeout. Rises is just blatant

[@DRAGONBLOODX]

Name of the bgm used in the video?

[@OzymandiasV2]

resonance x home x genesis by grimes mashup. i had the trilogy’s soundtrack for each segment but they got copyright striked :/

[@DRAGONBLOODX]

@@OzymandiasV2 Thank you!

[@space3828]

Have you uploaded thid before? I swear ive seen this or something similar to the topic

[@OzymandiasV2]

nah not a reupload but some people say some creators have touched on it before 😔

[@space3828]

@@OzymandiasV2 either way liked the video n i’ll subscribe

[@muneebsajjad4247]

I once read a similar essay on internet which talked about TDK's war on terror allegory

[@mohamedaityoussef9965]

3:55 lmfaooo

[@brucesnow7125]

Man, am I glad that Nolan's lib arc seems to be mostly gone. His later movies have much better politics.

[@Spaceghostflocko]

What do you mean by that?

[@OzymandiasV2]

honestly i thought it was super weird when Matthew McConaughey started ranting about liberals wanting him to sell his farm and eat bugs in Interstellar but the Tenet scene where they say “We are the 99%” was 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@jameslight4391]

@@OzymandiasV2 sadly Tenet is trash

[@ANGAD922]

@@OzymandiasV2 which scene are u talking about when u say "we are the 99%' and i hope u make a video on tenet exploring fatalism freewill and sacrifice. tenet is trash is one of the worst opinion btw coming for a person with no will to give the film some thought

[@kazombie9784]

Oppenheimer was a movie celebrating a terrorist. Not sure Nolan’s politics have gotten better lol.

[@Rigky55234]

I thought bro was joking last vid😭😭

[@OzymandiasV2]

🤓☝️ only serious promises here pal

[@superwatto941]

All amazing movies imo

[@OzymandiasV2]

oh yeah no doubt theyre still super good. Even Rises was enjoyable besides most not liking the ending

[@BNK2442]

Batman film is a good example of a good film with a bad message. It contrasts with the barbie film, a bad film with a bad message.

[@OzymandiasV2]

it deffo has its weird notes. Even in Batman Begins i wasnt in board with the “i dont have to save you” and the later death of dent. the hockey pads joke is funny but also like…. yeah? how is batman or police officer robin different from a non rich dude dressing up to stop crime. i think nolan and goyer kinda pulled from recent events and landed some good parallels but then backtracked

[@chickenisindeedmystyle7316]

What’s the bad message in Barbie?

[@bergadurg942]

Yeah bro elaborate on barbie being a bad movie with a bad message

[@legometaworld2728]

@@chickenisindeedmystyle7316 There is no bad message. BNK is a random incel who just says misogynistic shit in the comments.

[@mintymayhem9673]

it would be extremely painful

[@OzymandiasV2]

youre a big guy

[@provenknowledge]

Are you smokin on that Joker pack? Brand X. . . 🃏

[@Loco2xs]

Good post. Commenting for the algorithm

[@OzymandiasV2]

thank you!

[@poindextertunes]

Heath Ledger did a phenomenal job but that Joker character is just cringey imo

[@OzymandiasV2]

i think its a product of joker 2021 and ledger both being so big in meme culture as either characters for edgelords or for satire. I can see how his way of speaking and some of his jokes would be cringe on their own tho

[@manny5443]

Doesn't help that the entire trilogy is pure copaganda as well

[@44excalibur]

David S. Goyer has been, and always will be, a mediocre screenwriter. The Nolan Batman trilogy has not stood the test of time, and Goyer's heavy-handed plotting and Nolan's cold, detached take on the character have left the trilogy horribly dated. Remember, these are the same people who eventually gave us Man of Steel, Zack Snyder's desecration of Superman.

[@OzymandiasV2]

i agree. during editing this video and checking some parts with scenes, it hasnt aged well and Bale’s batman voice is super grating lol. The Batman Begins fakeout is kind of lame too.

[@charles___]

Ozy fell off ☹

[@OzymandiasV2]

business as usual. theres always some random vid that blows up outside of my normal stuff 😭 i can sleep knowing im at least not a 1 hit wonder

[@charles___]

@@OzymandiasV2 No you're definitely not a 1 hit wonder i really like your videos where you address leftists

[@reddays8448]

Can we all agree that the dark knight is sadly just filler Even tho it’s the best

[@OzymandiasV2]

🤔 very hot take. i think heaths premature death kinda threw a wrench in whatever they had planned so they had to have Rises have a connection with BB rather than everything that goes on in TDK

[@Itszozolol]

It’s always different, I’m the one in love

[@Itszozolol]

Great song choice btw

[@sagarsahil8728]

Nice video I am video editor and thumbnail designer and I can edit 2x better Reply if intersted

[@OzymandiasV2]

prob bait but join the discord and send your portfolio/work

[@sethwilliams501]

1:32 why are you talking about Osama that way? 🤨 are you one of them tik tok youth’s that learned about his letter last year? Sorry to judge a book so early but my American senses tell me something about your relationship with him is unsettling. 🤔 🤨

[@OzymandiasV2]

i read his letter but also a really good book on the war on Terror and how Al Qaeda rose to power called “Holy War Inc”. I dont support the actions of Al Qaeda or 9/11, was just stating that Osama and Ra’s had similar dogmas and gripes with society that Goyer purposefully wrote in

[@captainjakemerica4579]

The hell you calling the presidents clowns for?

[@eldeadkilljohnkennedy3946]

The reason why Joker could never came back in dark Knight rises Because the actor passed away, but in universe he died And he was killed by the US military That’s why we had bane Instead.

[@OzymandiasV2]

when was it said the military killed joker after TDK?

[@johnnyfives5416]

I think he was killed in guatameno bay by another violent inmate​@OzymandiasV2

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

Joker seems more like an ADX Florence guy than Gitmo.

[@milkak6823]

Pretty sure in canon Bane let all the criminals out of Arkham but left Joker there because even he knew that Joker would fuck up his plan to take over the city in some way just cause

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

@@milkak6823 IIRC that’s either in the novelization, comic version, or a draft version of TDKR.

[@TroyTheCatFish]

Just wait till you hear about Superman: Red Sun

[@OzymandiasV2]

aint letting that commie propaganda touch MY bookshelf