Battle of Thurles 1174 - Vengeance at Dawn - Irish Vs Normans

[@WardMcCarthy51]

There is nothing more fascinating than well-researched history. Thank you

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for the input!

[@DJJinxC2006]

Another great vlog, as always you have my thanks.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks again, support greatly appreciated Djjinx 👍

[@patrickmcelroy4312]

Excellent work! A most informative and thoroughly researched presentation.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks very much 👍

[@multymedia5320]

good vid, well presented narrated, researched, filmed and edited. Very interesting time in irish history. My fave topics are the viking and norman history in the north particularly john de courcy and hugh de lacy. im also part of a viking renactment group up in co down. Just discovered your channel today and looking fwd to watching the rest of your vids :D

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks very much!

[@michaelhogan5368]

It maybe a modest plaque to mark the site of a famous battle , but at least it's a mark for our future generations to be aware and acknowledge the area played an important part in our history.. Loved the video, well done

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for the compliment!

[@AcolyteOfAoibheall]

And don't be forgetting Ballyneety either!

[@gerardpaulbyrne48]

I just came across this channel. It's attention to detail with a focus on Gaelic Ireland and its history of resistance against the invasion, does strong credit to all involved in the content creation. Please keep it up.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for the compliment and for the record I am a one man show!

[@johnmcgrath1929]

The Crown of England did not alter official language from French to English until Edward III time mid 14 century...

[@jameswells554]

No real surprise that Richard most likely spoke French; he cared more for his Lands in France and spent more time there than he did England.

[@gerardodwyer5908]

More likely Richard identified as a Franco Norman because that was his country of birth. England became a Franco Germanic land post Hastings in 1066. The Germanic Angles and Saxons had ruled most regions of Anglesland for almost 700 years, post exit of Rome. An "English" identity didn't start to form until the 13th century. The Magna Carta of 1215 was written in Latin and French.

[@UAP]

France vs England, who wouldn't?

[@jameswells554]

@@UAP 😆

[@edward6438]

@@gerardodwyer5908 Agree! Why does this video discuss a battle between the Anglo-Normans and native Irish and then discuss the Irish and the English? The Anglo-Normans who came to Ireland were not English, period.

[@Jack_Kirrane]

Great video! Nice jumper too.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks!

[@waynemcauliffe2362]

Can you do one on the Battle of Callann 1261 please mate. My lot help beat the Normans there

[@primalireland-histcult]

🤔 Suffering battle fatigue atm!

[@waynemcauliffe2362]

@@primalireland-histcult Fair enough😁

[@GingerBeard24]

I just subscribed to your channel! And I really injoy your videos.👍

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks very much for taking the time to comment!

[@GingerBeard24]

@@primalireland-histcult You're welcome.🙂

[@justinneill5003]

I've been trying to learn more about early Irish history along with the origins of my surname, and also the history of the Normans from the period leading up to the conquest of England... but this is the first time I've heard of this battle. I believe it's because the narrative of English historians, on whom I have relied for my information, has traditionally steered clear of Irish successes on the battlefield for fairly obvious reasons. I am aware of their victory over the Scots at Benburb, over the Vikings at Clontarf and the losses inflicted on Cromwell's forces at Clonmel, but they and other similar encounters we hear little about in Britain, compared to the Battle of the Boyne, Kinsale etc. It's a kind of reverse propaganda I guess, but it's frustrating for anyone trying to build a comprehensive knowledge of the subject.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for the input Justin, I only knew of this battle from driving past the plaque one day, although the victory didn't seem to change much of the course of the Norman invasion. You may be correct about some historians as the English historian Thomas Wright (circa 1850) mentioned in the video, described the battle as though the Normans were killed in their beds at dawn in an uncivilised manner and didn't give the Irish any military credit for their action. Yet today it is perfectly acceptable for military action at night/ dawn!

[@justinneill5003]

@@primalireland-histcultIndeed! It was the element of surprise that enabled the Saxon King Harold to defeat Harald Hardrada & the vikings at York, as they enjoyed the spoils of their invasion, prior to his own defeat by the Normans at Hastings; but King Harold is feted for his heroic deeds at York. I wish we knew more about those Irish warriors at Thurles, what they wore, what weapons they had. I gather this was before the advent of the Gallowglass but I presume the long handled axe (from the earlier Viking influence) and spear would have already been in use, in addition to the more familiar iron sword.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Yes, spears were most common as they were economical to make.

[@TonyM540]

@@justinneill5003 look up the Irish kern, a fair bit of info available.

[@glenvalley4326]

The wisest policy is to read both Irish history books and Briish history books.

[@Alasdair37448]

Thank you for this amazing video go raibh maith agat!

[@primalireland-histcult]

You're welcome and thank you for taking the time to comment!

[@TheM41a]

Where did you find the model of Rory at 9:50 ?

[@primalireland-histcult]

Hi, it is a manequin in a museum!

[@floriangeyer3454]

No woman, no (battle)cry.😇

[@gerardodwyer5908]

The Annals of the Four Masters referred to the Franco Normans, or Anglo Normans, as "Sasanaigh", or Saxon. In other words of Germanic origin. The Germanic Angles gifted the land of England its name, Anglesland. The Franco Normans referred to Anglesland as Angleterre, land of the Angles. The Germanic Angles, Saxons and Jutes ruled over most (Norse England excluded) of England for almost 700 years post Roman exit, ceding control to the Franco Normans after Hastings and subsequent conquest. The term Anglo Norman derives from the fusion of Germanic tribes in England and the Franco Normans. Taking this to its logical conclusion, the "foreigners" who arrived in Ireland in the 11th century would not have been recognized as "English" or Anglishe by Gaelic Ireland. The real fusion of Germanic Angles and Saxons with their Franco Norman overlords didn't effectively start as a lasting process until the 13th century when a common language and identity, based on Germanic, Nordic and Franco Norman cultures, began to take shape. It is quite likely that Norman French was the primary language used by the first waves of Anglo Normans to arrive in Ireland, with Germanic tongues being represented to a lesser extent, and mainly among the lower ranks of infantry soldiers, servants etc, while Norman French, being the language of England's rulers and Norman aristocrats, held the status as language of governance and administration in political and military quarters.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for that, every day a school day.

[@AcolyteOfAoibheall]

Welsh would probably have predominated amongst the invaders. See Gerald of Wales' account of the invasion.

[@michaelroche6181]

Flemish was the language of many from the Pembroke ' colony who were to the fore of the 1169 invasion.

[@AcolyteOfAoibheall]

@@michaelroche6181 Interesting fact. The Flemings were 'deadly enemies of the native Welsh' according to R.R.Davies ... do you know what opinion Gerald of Wales had about them?

[@AcolyteOfAoibheall]

@@gerardodwyer5908 Katherine Simms refers to them as 'Cambro-Norman Conquistadors' ...

[@bouse23]

medieval ireland makes game of thrones look very tame

[@janettedavis6627]

I thought the Normans that invaded Ireland were French from Brittany or Normandy. Irish Gaelic is written like French. I know Richard De Clare known as Strongbow is buried in Christchurch Cathedral in Dublin.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Ultimately they came from Normandy, conquered England 100 years before coming to Ireland. Thank you for the input 👏

[@AcolyteOfAoibheall]

At this point in history Cambro-Norman would be a more accurate designation as it was Norman marcher lords and their Welsh vassals who spearheaded the invasion. Ironic that a FitzGerald was ultimately elected to govern an independent Ireland. Presumably Gerald of Wales would have been very happy with the enduring effects of the Cambro-Norman colonisation of Ireland as the only race that he held in lower esteem than the native Irish were the English!

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for the input.

[@glenvalley4326]

The Vikings had gone soft!!

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for the input 😁

[@TonyM540]

Too much Guinness!

[@gerardmangan5870]

Vikings were grand with monasteries and convents,weren't able to play with the paddys.

[@gerardwalsh4346]

Elizabeth I succeeded in uniting the Normans and Celts into what we now call the Irish. Surely an unstoppable combination. All Irishmen should (sarcastically) pay homage to Elizabeth.

[@primalireland-histcult]

Thanks for the input!