BayStar Hydraulic Steering Repair Bubble Purge G2 for SeaStar UFlex and BayStar Outboard Steering

Tyler Holland and Outboard Specialty Tools diagnose and repair common issues and repairs on a BayStar Hydraulic Steering System using Bubble Purge G2. The repairs completed in this video include dealing with a seized bracket that was restricting the range of motion of the cylinder as well as replacing leaking seals on the BayStar cylinder and flushing out the old fluid as well as filling and purging the air from the system using the Bubble Purge G2. The methods used for flush, fill and bleed on this BayStar system are virtually the same as we would use for purging on SeaStar or Uflex outboard hydraulic steering systems.
Tools Featured in this video:
Bubble Purge G2 Hydraulic Steering Bleed and Purge Kit for SeaStar available on our website, or on Amazon
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07...
outboardst.com/product/bubble...

[@scotth5828]

I'm trying to diagnose my steering issues. I have gone thru the steps and 99% sure i don't have air in the system. When i get to lock i can still turn the wheel in the lock direction. Also if i trim the motor all the way up and turn it slightly to either side and let go, gravity will turn the motor to full lock in about 10 seconds with out the wheel moving. Thoughts?

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Hi Scott, warning, this reply is lengthy, but this is my process to diagnose and isolate failures in BayStar and SeaStar hydraulics, without Power Assist and without Auto Pilot, also assuming that system is filled and purged. Likely you have a malfunction in the helm or the cylinder. Both issues you described are red flags. The trick is isolating it out. If the ball valves in the back of the helm are malfunctioning, which can be the result of fluid contamination, they can not seat properly to build and hold pressure and lock out feedback. So, when pressure is applied either under a load on the water or just the weight of the motor at full tilt-up, the valves won't seat correctly and fluid is allowed to blow-by the valve assembly, motor leaks down. Steering infinitely on lock, but hard lock our on the opposite lock is also a major symptom of non-compliant ball valves. With a healthy system, you'll get hard lock out at the wheel almost immediately when the cylinder maxes out its range. Push Test: Trim the motor back down, and push the motor to one side with steady force for 10 or 15 seconds, then push the other way. If the steering wheel starts turning as pressure is applied, and the cylinder is allowed to move more than an inch or so, that is usually fluid blowing through the valves in the helm and is definitely an issue with the helm not locking out feedback. If you can push the motor from lock to lock in one or both directions, there is definitely a failure in either the cylinder or helm. Back to isolating out components. Cylinder: The seal on the piston on the steering rod can degrade or crack over time as well as the polished inner surface on the cylinder wall being able to pit out, both of these issues will cause fluid blow-by inside the cylinder. If you are able to steer infinitely in both directions, not matter the location the cylinder, the cylinder piston seal is often damaged. If you can steer infinitely in one direction only, but get locked out going the other way, you can probably eliminate the piston seal as a culprit. If there is pitting on the interior cylinder wall, it is usually, but not always located near the center of the bore, where the piston seal would be centered up when driving straight ahead. So, with this type of pitting, when doing the push test, you get noticeable movement off center, and then the piston seal finds clean metal and holds, rock solid. At the wheel, you'll often feel a dead spot of less resistance on center and when trying to turn from center towards either direction, but then the seal passes onto clean cylinder bore, and builds and holds pressure. Also, you would get a solid lock out when turning the wheel into lock in either direction, and if the cylinder located off center in either direction, you can push on the motor all day long and no movement at the helm or the cylinder. The inner cylinder wall can pit out in other locations off of center, but this is something I've only seen one or two times in many years of working on these systems.

[@scotth5828]

Thank you for responding and offering advice. I hope that my questions along with your answers will help other DIYers. So troubleshooting I went out and with the motor in the down/run position I can push the motor by hand and make it travel lock to lock. It takes some pressure but I am by no means trying to win a power lifting contest. While manually moving the motor the steering wheel does not move. At first, I was thinking the check valve in the helm but not sure if it would cause the same issue going in both directions. I would think it's odd for both sides of the check valve to fail at the same time but that's a guess. As for the piston in the cylinder in the back... that would make sense that the seal would fail which would cause it to have the same problem in both directions. Is that seal in the center of the rod something that is serviceable or would I need to replace the entire cylinder assembly?

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Hi Scott, In general, if the piston seal is damaged, it will let you steer to infinity in both directions as the damaged seal does not care which direction pressure comes from, it's just blowing by. Motor gets over to lock and the steering does not lock out, and usually this failure can be duplicated on the opposite lock. I am still a lean toward the helm being the issue. There are two sets of valves, 4 total with 2 to starboard and 2 to port, on the back of the helm. These 4 work together to lock out feedback and build pressure on one side while accepting fluid back into the valve assembly from the other side. If any one of those 4 is compromised, the helm is compromised. The main reason I am leaning towards the helm is that I've seen this exact issue in my shop several times and maybe 10% of the time the cylinder was damaged, the other 90% was damaged helms. There are two ways to know for sure: 1. Removed the end cap assemblies from both side of the cylinder and inspect the cylinder inner bore as well as the piston/seal on the rod. 2. Disconnect the hoses from the cylinder. Cap the hose fittings on the cylinder and cap the hoses them selves with fittings that can hold max pressure. We sell some of these fittings on the site, but they are pricy and mostly are sold to professional shops. Anyway, once the hoses and cylinder are disconnected and capped it's easy to tell which one is compromised. If the cylinder is sealed off and full of fluid, it will not budge when you do the push test. Not at all. It will feel like you are pushing on a wall. If the cylinder moves, it is definitely damaged. Next, turn the helm with the hoses capped off. If helm and hoses are in good shape, you will be immediately locked out no matter which direction you turn. If helm and hoses are full of fluid and you are able to turn the wheel with the hoses capped off, the helm is damaged. As for the piston rod, I am not aware of an OEM or after market replacement for either BatyStar or SeaStar, and in all cases with this type of failure have ended up completely replacing the damaged component, whether it be cylinder, helm or both.

[@julesscott9880]

@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Just wanted to give you an update and thank you for the troubleshooting help. I had the same though on using caps to seal each part of the system. I disconnected the hydraulic hoses at the T's with the bleeder connectors and capped both hoses and the side of the T they connected to. I could turn the steering wheel a little to each side and then binded up. I moved on to the motor and even with the system sealed I could still move the motor side to side to lock so that told me the issue was in the back by the motor. I could not find a part number to the piston in the cylinder so I went to a local shop and asked if they knew the part number. According to them the part was not something that was sold however an authorized repair center could rebuild the cylinder which included a new piston, new end caps and all new seals...and of course they were one of the "few" authorized repair centers in the country for seastar/baystar. So for $225 they rebuilt it (I thought it was a good price for out the door) and they showed me the old part and the plastic piston in the middle of the shaft had a crack right through it which was allowing the fluid to slowly flow to each side which cause the steering issues. I took pictures of the crack in the piston but cannot see how to upload pictures here.

[@Ed1Marine]

Nice and clean job. Thanks!

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Many thanks!

[@Mstymntntop]

I bought this and now love it! I tried the motor locking back and forth and it was a pain. Especially when I turned starboard, the lines going into the engine would pinch the tuBe and try to pop off the quick connect fittings. I happened to have bought a pair of seastar trailering inserts that keep the engine from moving left or right. These were a game changer. Snap them on and there is about a quarter inch movement from center to left or right. Once I put these on, I was able to purge the air in a couple of minutes. Without them, I was going back and forth and never had a true air free system. Maybe add them to your kits?! They were 15$ at west marine.

[@jamesbond7018]

good vid i have same setup could not get shaft out unless unbolt motor i cleaned and greased ,used a felt seal cut at a 90 so it would fit under shaft cap seem to help keep moisture out and keep grease in ,i did take the center pivot bolt out and re assemble in garage ,too hot in the fl sun ( good video ) thanks

[@darki_lures]

Thx you I will change the hole system.

[@Opiti72]

Hi Tyler, thanks for taking the time to share you knowledge. This is great content and very helpful too. Question, I own a NauticStar 19XS, I bought it brand new in 2019 and now has 100 hours only. Always garage kept and with all the maintenance done properly. Last weekend I noticed that I had to keep steering right to keep the course, steering almost indefinitely. This happened on our way back to the marina, a bit scary with my family onboard, not nice. Didn't say a word, and we made it back without any major problem. Very disappointed with my Yamaha, while I love how quite the 115 is, I had two mercuries before, and never had a problem :( I will go though you troubleshooting before I go to the dealer. But big question first, I think the engine has 7 years warranty, is the BayStar Hydraulic Steering System covered by the warranty? Thanks a lot!! You got a new subscriber.

[@rexkelly3035]

Does the fitting suit all helms particularly mercurys

[@fishski941]

Do you still sell the Baystar rebuild kit? I don’t see it on your website.

[@tylerdurden1787]

Thank you for the video, exactly what I was looking for. What was the white tube you used on the hose connector "T" fitting threads? I imagine its some type of marine thread seal?

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Hey, the white stuff was Permatex thread sealant. designed for fuel fittings, but works really well with most solvents

[@russellnorman7289]

I just rebuilt my Baystar this exact same way after watching this video it worked perfectly but I still have the smallest little bit of a slip or skip type feeling is it possible that could be caused by not getting all the bubbles out? All the components inside the unit looked great and everything went smoothly and there are no leaks.

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Hi Russell, If you are referring the feeling of skipping when you are turning the wheel, there may be an issue, and often there is no issue at all. The first thing I do is verify that all of the air is out of the system. If the helm, hoses and cylinder are in good shape, you will be able to get all of the air out, and you will see minimal if any bubbles back at the cylinder with the Cylinder Attachment hooked up and bleeders open. All the air is out, and fluid levels look good in the helm reservoir, OK. Next, I look at how the system tests out after purging. I am watching how far the cylinder slides along the piston rod when the motor is pushed side to side "the kick test". In this test, you don't want to see more than about 1/8" to 1/4" of slide in either direction. You also do not want to see the steering wheel turning all by itself when you are pushing on the motor (bad ball valve in helm) Excess movement of the cylinder can point to there still being some air in the system, or it can point to an issue with the ball valves in the back of the helm. Next I test the helm, I am looking to see how many revolutions of the wheel from lock to lock. With most SeaStar and Bay Star systems, they specify between 4 and 6 rev's (full turns of the steering wheel ) from lock to lock, in both directions. When the motor pushes up on the port or starboard lock I continue turning the wheel, the wheel should lock out very quickly after the motor stops moving. If your system passes all of these tests, it is usually ready for load testing on open water. NOTE: I have worked on these systems for my entire career as a mechanic, I have had many systems where I perceived a bit of a skip while turning the wheel and driven myself crazy with it when the system was performing to factory spec. The most important factor is how the system tests out, and yes, if you are turning the wheel, and getting a skip, AND, this skip is accompanied by the motor not moving while you are turning the wheel, it likely needs a deeper dive and inspection.

[@jasonlord1879]

Thank you. Towards the end of the video you talk about the steering locking out, mine will not lock out and the steering is very unresponsive unless I turn the wheel at a fast pace. Any tips there?

[@jasonlord1879]

I’ve replaced the steering helm, thinking it was a pump issue. Thanks again!

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Hi Jason, Very sorry for the delay getting back to you. Yes, the issues you described usually point to the ball valves in the helm misbehaving. If I have removed all the air out of the system and this issue continues, it is almost always caused by a failed helm, the next most likely cause is a damaged piston on the piston rod, or pitting in the cylinder wall, both of which can cause "blow by" where the system can not build enough pressure and you are literally just cycling fluid in a loop as you turn the wheel. If the system will not purge, and you are not getting a prime within about a half hour, this can also be caused by the helm malfunctioning and not being able to build enough pressure to push fluid through the whole system to displace the air. If you suspect the cylinder is bad, it needs to be isolated and tested for a cracked or abraded piston seal.

[@limeydal]

Helped me a lot with understanding the procedure. However, as soon as I loosen the bleed valves just a touch, fluid flows out from the threads. If I turn the helm is really squirts out. Is there something in the T valve fitting that wears and would need replacing?

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Normally that leakage is cause by dry rotted o-rings that seal the bleeder into the bleeder tee. If the bleeder is only opened a half turn to full turn it shouldnt leak.

[@shaneshort5071]

Does the bushing that's in the center of the shaft have a crack in it? Is that bushing supposed to be solid all the way around

[@robertheller8232]

Why is my bleed valves leaking when using the bubble purge system

[@ij4298]

Just the info I was looking for.....my boat sits for extended periods......Canadian winters are 5 months long.....l think my seals have dried out slight leak......I also have a slow leak on the hoses at the helm I am not supposed to apply thread sealant to the hose connections but what do I have to lose Thanks for the video......I have purchased your fill and purge kit.

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

BayStar helms and cylinders are generally really good products, and perform well for their application up to 150HP. That said, they will require periodic maintenance and repair. I have found that aside from replacing the cylinder endcaps/seals every few years, the next most common problem I encounter is BayStar hoses themselves. If your system has BayStar hoses, they are composite or plastic tubing with ferule and collar compression fittings to connect to helm and cylinder as opposed to true hoses with crimped or swaged fittings. I have had problems with BayStar tubing over the years with them becoming brittle, cracking and leaking right near the crimp/threaded collar . If this shows up in my shop, I usually end up reaplacing BayStar tubing with SeaStar hoses. SeaStar hoses are sold in 1 foot increments and are dramatically better performers than the tubing that comes with a BayStar Kit. SeaStar hose fittings are the same thread pattern as BayStar fittings and SeaStar hoses will connect perfectly to BayStar components, cylinders and helms. WIthout having your system in front of me, I am guessing, but if you have the BayStar tubing installed, it is generally on borrowed time after a few years in service, and particularly so if the boat is exposed to severe winter conditions. With BayStar hoses, if they are leaking at the ferules, you can generally cut the hose back with a razor to clean material and add a new ferule/threaded compression fitting and it's good to go for a while, but like I said, I usually yank all the tubing out and replace with SeaStar hoses. I have also had issues with BayStar systems developing some sort of contamination that turns the fluid a dark almost black color, and I have only found this issue with the systems equipped with the tubing instead of actual hoses. I have never seen this type of contamination with a BayStar Helm connected to a BayStar Cylinder with SeaStar hoses. I can only assume this has something to do with the tubing coming into contact with solvent over time and the solvent working its magic. So again, it's usually replaced with SeaStar hoses, flush the entire system, bleed and test.

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Thanks very much for your order!

[@Oakleyshooter]

The big nut at 14:20, should that turn forward and backward when tilting and trimming the motor up and down? Or should that be stuck in place. I ask because my steering was getting binding up, but I loosened that nut like 1/5th turn and now no more binding but it does move when tilting/trimming. It definitely is nowhere near hand tightened or loose.

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

The nut should not move, but steel bracket inside of the nut should be able to rotate freely or the cylinder will bind in the corners. In most cases, when the BayStar cylinder starts binding coming out of the corners, it is caused by a build up of corrosion in at that nut and internally the nut is binding to the support bracket. Best practice would be to back the nut off, completely remove the entire bracket assembly and thoroughly clean the bracket assembly removing all debris and then adding grease and reinstalling. If the bracket is functioning normally, the bracket itself will rotate freely through the entire range of motion of the cylinder even after the nut has been torqued into place and does not move.

[@darki_lures]

Hi and thanks for sharing your experiance , i have the "problem" on my 115 PS suzuki ouboard with Baystar Hydraulik streering. By standing still everything is good, streering in both direction is smooth and very easy. But when im on mmy way and drive just slowly then the steering to the left is much "harder" then to the right. Is this normal ? because of the Prop? but ist ist that big differents between steering left and right? more faster i go more difficult to steer left. Greetings from Germany

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Sorry late reply, yes, there is definitely torque coming off the prop that will put feedback/force on the steering cylinder, but there are valves in the helm pump that should always lock out and prevent feedback coming from the motor and cylinder. If the valves in the helm are malfunctioning, they can and will allow feedback, which you will feel at the wheel, especially when you are under way, and also a malfunctioning set of valves can allow easy steering in one direction but very difficult in the other direction. An easy test to confirm: engine off, boat is either trailered or tied up/not moving. Turn the wheel in both directions, if it moves easily with engine off/boat stationary, then you have some level of confirmation that the feedback lock out function of the helm is not working properly. Also, if you are turning the wheel in both direction, again, the boat is stationary, and the steering is easy in one direction but very high resistance in the opposite direction, it is highly likely that the internal valves on the helm are causing the problem.

[@andyandy5646]

Hi Very good video! Do I have to sustain the motor in any way wehen I take out the support bracket? Another question I have is if its really posible to only change the cylinder seal package? I saw thouse onese on Amazon..

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

If the motor is trimmed all the way down, it should be fairly stable and not move too much. There are several replacement parts options and unfortunately, I am not a great source of info on them. Amazon likely has every single part in production for this assembly though.

[@andyandy5646]

Thank you for your answer! I actually found oem seal kit on ebay USA for about 140$ inclusive shipping and VAT instead of about 250$ here in Sweden…

[@andyandy5646]

It looks like you apply some sort of grease or sealant on the nippels? What sort of grease or sealant ist that? Thank you!

[@josephwhitehead1692]

I have a catamaran with the Teleflex liquid tie bar with Seastar steering and twin engines. My starboard engine has the T fittings with bleed valves but the port only has 90 degree elbows, no bleeders. How would I go about bleeding my system? It seems like every time I move the engines back and forth a few times they are out of whack.

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Hi Joseph, I'd like more info on your system and feel free to email pics of the cylinder/hose rigging to my email [e-mail]. Couple of possibilities, depending on the age of the system, if it is an older set of cylinders, some of the earlier ones did not have bleeder valves, they had bleed screw on top of the cylinder which were a challenge to deal with. If this is the case there are some retrofit kits out there to replace the port cylinder 90° elbows with a tru bleeder tee with hose thread on one side, NPT one another leg to go into the cylinder wall, and a bleeder on the 3rd leg which is compatible with all modern purge equipment. Given your description, I'd say at minimum the system needs a purge to verify no air is rolling around in there causing problems. Once the air is out of the system, you can use the Liquid Tie Bar Valve to align the motors as needed and then load test the system.

[@josephwhitehead1692]

@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 I sent you a couple of pics, I'll take more tomorrow. I actually picked up some fittings a while back but when I went to remove the elbows, my wrench started collapsing the fitting. I wasn't willing to risk destroying the fitting without being positive the new one would fit.

[@jwbboat1684]

What about the center o ring on the rod,I'm having trouble finding it.029620

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Pretty sure that BayStar/SeaStar/Dometic would prefer that you lay out some serious cash to buy a new cylinder as opposed to replacing an inexpensive and widely available o-ring. That said, I do not have the dimensions or material info handy for that model.

[@JesudeGannes]

Great video, thanks for sharing. It was, however, extremely painful to see you suffer. A set of Crows Feet, a 90º electric impact wrench, and a few other tools would make your life so much easier.

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Thanks, and definitely appreciate your recommendations!

[@christopherbrown4471]

Why do you use such a small adjustable wrench?

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

I used the biggest adjustable that I could find that would fit in a confined space, but there are probably better options.

[@sergiolopez5652]

Where can i order the seals and how much $$$$$

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

Boats.net or any SeaStar BayStar dealer should stock the seal kits. Sorry for the forever delay responding to your question

[@archiehendricks6093]

That tube going thru moter mount, would been better if had a sert fitting for marine grease, just thought

[@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631]

I agree 100%!